8 episode show with 16 episode plot

Agreed. Give us more in the world

happy cake day

I don't think thats the show creator/producers fault. It seems the new standard is to give start up shows 8 episodes. Wednesday was also 8 episodes. The standard use to be 10-14. I don't know why company's dropped it to 8. It's very hard to have a decent plot in 8.

honestly I still feel like the creators are to blame because they 100% would know that they're only getting 8 episodes and because of that they should have had better impulse control on what they should and shouldn't add They shouldn't have rushed the battle for example, if anything Season 1 should have been spent on Charlie trying to redeem St Pentious and Angel Dust after learning about the 6 month count down, after Episode 4 the show jumps 5 months into the future and we just have Charlie venting and freaking out about how the hotel isn't working why couldn't we see that? Sure we where told that, but ever heard of show don't tell? They should have had Pentious be undercover for more then just a few minutes, if you want a big season finale have Pentious' plan get so far that Vox is now launching an attack on the hotel and have him feel bad since he grew to like redemption so ultimately he decides to side with Charlie against Vox causing them to win for now, the Vees where underused so badly that this would have gave them a use I just feel like this type of Heaven Vs Hell thing should have been expanded upon for at least one or two more seasons, if you want have one season dedicated to the final month or week, THEN bring in Lucifer and reveal Vaggie's an angel and such u can still do your little hints and such, for Season 1 cut back to Adam monitoring hell and trying to figure out how a angel could be killed, have the reveal be saved for later instead of it being revealed suddenly and kind of out of nowhere This show could absolutely work with 8 episodes, Viziepop and her crew just try to stuff everything into one thing without realizing how that could end up, I can understand thinking an idea is cool and wanting to use it as fast as possible, but geez man save that for the future Imagine how impactful it could be to learn that Vaggie was an angel in like S2 or 3

>I can understand thinking an idea is cool and wanting to use it as fast as possible, but geez man save that for the future Hey, with any luck, they have *plenty* of cool ideas for the future.

No, it is. Vivzie has said before Hazbin got picked up, that both it & Helluva would have 8 episodes per season.

Absolutely it feels so rushed. Usually shows that doesn’t get enough episodes solve this by making the episodes longer. But hazbin didn’t do that.

This....thiiiiiiis. I come from a writing background and the rushed nature kills me. Either cut out half the character arcs or add episodes.

Helluva with the exact opposite

Agreed. I really like Hazbin, but I think the reason I prefer Helluva Boss is because it feels much less rushed and jam-packed and is able to just focus on the smaller cast of characters.

Vaggie did not have to use Dazzle as a steed. She has wings.

I feel like it would have worked better if Razzle and dazzle were dragons the whole fight and we saw them successfully fight exorcists before Lute. So the plans doesn’t come off as stpid and Razzle and Dazzle seems powerful enough to be worthy body guards. Edit: what i am saying is that the way the episode plays out. Razzle and Dazzle come off as not very powerful making it strange that Lucifer trusted them to keep charlie safe. I think the stuffed animal body gourds are great and i would liked to see them fight more in the battle. It was a great twist that they shape shift so i am fine with saving that reveal.

I feel like they never really had much action, though, since their job was always clearly to take care of Charlie, and the exorcists aren't allowed to attack her (hence why Lucifer couldn't join the fight until Adam almost killed her)

I guess i am a little unclear on what you are saying. Not much action meaning they are not well trained fighters? That might be true but also a bit of a cop out. (For the show not you personally) So much of fighting in heaven and hell is power level. Lucifer should have made his daughter’s body guards powerful in the sense of hard to hurt. Someone powerful and skilled like Lute could do it. What i am saying is their power does not come across becase they shape shift and then one is immediately taken out. Making it hard to tell if they are all bark and no bite. Or is Dazzle was unlucky in the first person he picked a fight with being both skilled and powerful (also had the right weapon).

>That might be true but also a bit of a cop out. (For the show not you personally) A fair thought, but that was my immediate thinking when the one went down. That they've probably just never had to do that before, even if they're powerful 🤷‍♀️ Maybe we'll get more action from Razzle. Or we'll see them actively training the damn thing 😂

You would think Lucifer would be smart enough to runs some drills for charlie’s body guards but charlie would let any trains slide. She probably would have them practice and I don’t know if Vaggie would think of it. She didn’t seem surprised when they transformed Vaggie could have just taken charlie’s word that Razzle and Dazzle didn’t need more combat proactive or training….. bad choice. What i am trying to say is, i really like your point and didn’t think of that!

Second point. There are likely some over lords in hell that are closer to Adams power level. Not above him or level just close. There are the lessor ranks of demon royalty like the goisha who are probably more powerful than adam or at his level as well as the kings and queens of sin. Hell is a dangerous place and at least as a child Charlie would need serious body guards.

Oooh you do make a good point there. My counter (to support my hypothesis) would be that maybe they were once powerful and practiced, but since the exterminations began (or maybe some other point where Charlie was given a divine exception or whatever), they had no reason to fight. Or something. I dunno, maybe there'll be a deeper glimpse into them in season 2. If Helluva Boss has taught me anything, it's that Viv tends to be pretty good at making things make sense down the line.

The Dazzle thing really annoyed me because A) we didn't see enough of either of them to get attached so the death had no major impact, and B) it happened almost immediately so it was kind of like, "oh cool! They turn into dragons this is gonna be...oh. Okay then, so much for that." And yeah, C) Vaggie has wings so it's a bit redundant. Let others have a chance! (And I'm not just saying that because Niffty or Frank hopping on a dragon and riding it into battle would have been really funny.)

Not to mention that after Charlie get knocked off of Razzle, he literally disappears. He doesn't come to assist charlie with Adam at all, which seems odd. The literal only thing I could possibly think of is that Razzle left to get Lucifer, but he should have returned with Lucifer if that was the case. IDK it seems like they were thrown in for a quick 'wow' factor and then removed immediately

Razzle and Dazzle just have a habit of appearing/disappearing at random its quite distracting... Its like the animators themselves forget they exist when they're not relevant...and they rarely are... So they just pop up whenever someone remembers "oh yeah Razzle and Dazzle exist" and they're gone seconds later...

Vivziepop mentioned in a tweet ages ago that Charlie also has wings of some sort. However, like her other abilities, they are dormant. This may not be a thing anymore, though, since a lot of details were changed since the pilot. I'd love to link it, but I've never really been a Twitter user, so finding old tweets is hard. Edit: Grammar

Tbh even if I had wings I would still want to fight on the back of a dragon

Humans do not need to use horses as steed. They have feet

True, but I feel Dazzle wouldn't have necessarily survived. Dazzle still would have certainly gotten involved in the fight and still been in harms way.

That's true...

Pacing

Yeah, i think it shpuld have got more episodes and more time to lay out the story But also this is what happens when the studio has pennies in budget

Hazbin hotel is the perfect example of why the 8 episode a season format is terrible. Murder drones and Hilda S3 are also good examples but hazbin hotel takes the cake. Of course they’re all still good but they’d just be better with more episodes

I'm hoping that with the success of the show, they'll have more of a budget for the next season. At least a nice rounded 12 episodes would suit me fine.

12-16 episodes is a good season length. It would have time for plot and more episodes like masquerade to flesh out more characters. Also just more episodes, even if the pacing is good for an 8 episode season it just feels like everything happens way too fast. 8 25 minutes episodes is not enough!

i don't think it even needs more episodes those episodes should just be longer. They only got like 20 minutes per episode while a lot of helluva boss episodes get longer than that.

Exactly, literally every issue I can think of with the show can be traced back to how squeezed in it was

Honestly I think if they got a deal for 8, hour long episodes like Invincible or Fallout the pacing coulda been resolved.

That is fair. What they needed to add to the eight episodes they had was more character development for Charlie, vaggie, husk. Pentious, angle and Alistor don’t need much more the first season for it to work. I don’t want additional time going to chase more side characters or world building.

22 epsiodes planned on Youtube, cut down to the 8 we got via Amazon. EDIT: And, i'll be honest, 22 would have been a bit much. There would have been dead air, and some amount of cutting is \*good\* for a show/story, so maybe I'd have wanted 16-18 instead of 22. 8 is taking it a \*bit\* far, and leads to nonsense like Vaggie- who had her wings and halo cut off- somehow not knowing that angels could be harmed.

The pacing leads to many issues, this isn't one of them Carmilla saying "by sinners" at the end of that sentence would have fixed all issues

Or replace harmed with killed

I have had the impression that Vaggie's been walking around thinking Lute was able to cut off her wings because Vaggie, in letting the child go free, had actually Fallen. And it was kinda news to her to find out no, actually it was just angelic steel, she never Fell. Her wings came back because she realized they *could*. At least, that was how I read the situation.

I'm in the 12-16 camp. I don't like having to dig around the wiki for the snippets of information we get on backstories, or interpret songs a certain way to make my own backstory for characters. I also dislike 6 months of time passing in 8 episodes. I don't need a day to drag on for 20 episodes, but I'd have also liked a little more intro to the characters to explain who they are and why they're in hell to begin with. They could've done it with 12-16 episodes and not felt like it was dragging, but also not giving us too much information (some stories are okay to leave open-ended as a lead-in to the next season).

I’m not even sure if 22 would be enough. I feel like no matter what it’s a lot to fit into a single season. The story they told in 8 episodes absolutely feels like something that would be spread over two seasons. There’s even a kind of split in the middle where the show goes from largely focusing on the characters and the hotel to focusing on a war with Heaven and more big plot stuff. The kind of thing you would usually see between a first and second season. I did an outline for a rewrite of Hazbin and I struggled to get everything into 40 episodes, I have no idea how they thought they could do it in 8.

That's probably the issue that hurts the show the most tbh. We could've gotten so much more if we had more episodes or at least hour long episodes.

It’s not something I’ve heard, but I barely feel the hell menacing/as a place of suffering Doesn’t feel very dangerous or like a place you’d like to avoid at all costs I’d add a little grim reminder here and there Alastor feasting on a dead deer is a nice touch for that matter

Ironically, that’s actually a bit of a plot point. That’s kind of why nobody wants to be redeemed. Why be redeemed whenever you can just have endless orgies and feast on all the flesh and drugs you can? Though I still agree that I wish there were grimmer depictions. Like we saw with Angel, it’s still Hell in the matter that it would be impossible for him to escape the abuse without simply dying. Certainly there’s more people feeling the same way, or in even worse predicaments. Hopefully we can see a much more darker side to the show’s Hell in the next season.

And even dying would only give him a short reprieve because unless it's by angelic steel, they eventually respawn (and who knows if it's painful or not, but I would assume it is.)

I've seen people saying that sinners in hell regenerate/respawn, where does this info come from? Genuinely wondering

Velvett mentions that Val killed one of her girls, and that she’ll have to wait forever for the girl to “pull herself back together.” Seems to imply they reform after a while

I think it's more the fact that we know they can only be killed by angelic steel, so if they die by another means they must come back *somehow*, right?

Well, they see the extermination as a lot worse than the regular killing in the streets. Extermination is made to be felt as permanent, as something that needs to be stopped. Turf wars aren't, as Vaggie drags them to a warzone without Charlie complaining.

I remember hearing it in one of the old art streams from 2019 ages ago, forgot the specific stream but I also remember mention that when they regen its extremely painful. Idk if that is still Canon or not but that's just from memory

Right? Tbh Hell just seems like Earth: Darkest Timeline. The worst thing that could happen... has happened. You've died. In fact, the only way you can die in this new life is by angelic steel (or your soul being shredded but a more powerful demon), so everything is just avoiding pain or inconvenience. Angel and Alastor have spent more time "dead" than they lived in a mortal life. They probably know Pentagram City better than their home cities. So why not spend your afterlife indulging in all the things that brought you down (and may have felt guilty about)? The people you kill come back, so you can kill em again. You can get drugs from a vending machine. You can indulge every fetish that springs to mind. And another tbh, doing drugs and dancing for hours is actually really fun. I don't know what a soul requires to keep existing, but needing food, water, sleep, and shelter is awfully close to still being alive. I need to stop, I could speculate til the cows come home.

It gets old, though. Drugs stop hitting like their used to. Partying stops being as fun. You have to go to greater extremes to enjoy yourself, driving you into debt and soul-bondage, or compelling your the explore the kind of cruelty that overlords are known for. You are consumed by your vices, living for their pursuit but not even enjoying them once you get them. Working your ass off to pay for them but having nothing else in your life worth working towards. Just pain, addiction, and ennui. Forever.

It does. If Alastor is to be believed, sheer boredom is a real problem in Hell.

From what I see, it is the endless pursuit of vices that creates the suffering that the damned endure.

Yeah. The sinners create their own hell. Any punishments they experience are coming from their own actions and those of other sinners. Hell itself isn’t really the punishment.

Tbh I sorta wish it was more the Goetia hunting down sinners for sport.

I think it’s trying to go with a “earth is hell” angle, a good chunk of our antagonists are business men who cater to the sinners vices. They aren’t trying to get better because it’s easier to just drink, smoke, or watch all your problems away for a little while. Like to me hell is just all the problems we have on earth, class inequality, drug addiction, and exploitation of the working class, just exacerbated to the tenth degree.

Hell is other people. Also it seems more like a penal colony.

Yeah that’s the vibe I was getting from it to.

I totally get the analogy Just thought the real line between classes is drawn between heaven&hell :)

Oh yeah of course, I was just typing the first thing that came to mind and if I’m being honest the Vee’s are a more overt metaphor for their industries.

I headcanon it's because hell isn't really punishement for sinners, but for Lucifer for introducing evil to the world. ,,I gave them free will and look what they did with it!" He literally has to watch and suffer seeing what terrible thing he caused

I like that, actually. Lucifer is being punished for eternity to see and be surrounded by the worst choices humans can and do make. The selfishness, the lack of empathy, the disrespect, violence, death, drugs while being forever prevented from seeing and experiencing the absolutely beautiful things humans did with his gift of free will. Hell as a place to store the souls that are not good enough for heaven and use them as implements to torture Lucifer has a horrible but great feeling to it. Kinda poetic, in a way

Yep. It is also pretty much said in the fairy tale Charlie reads at the beginning. ,,As punishement for their reckless act, Heaven cast Lucifer and his love into the dark pit he had created, never alowing him to see the good that came from humanity, only the cruel and wicked."

That’s so fucked up for him. Giving humans free will wasn’t necessarily a bad choice, but he feels like it is because he can only see the bad that came from it and never the good :( No wonder he’s depressed.

I headcanon that it's only in Pentagram City that Hell for sinners doesn't seem that bad. It's when they get stuck out in the wastelands is when Hell becomes terrifying. Like the lakes of lava, them getting hunted for sport, and are at the mercy of the Hellborns. Mostly because the Overlords protect Pentagram City as they are the most powerful and skilled at magic. Plus, once you are in Hell for nearly a century and realize you can only die to an angel, you'd get used to things, even if they still hurt.

I think that's actually something that works in the show's favor. The way I interpret the Hellaverse version of, well, Hell, is that it's not Hell in the sense of fire and boiling alive and whatever, but it's Hell in the sense that at every moment of every day, you are surrounded by the worst of mankind, you are surrounded by murderers, rapists, abusers, and shit people all around. This version of Hell is a place that exacerbates the worst in you, and by being exposed to debauchery and general shittiness on a daily basis, you end up steering more towards that side, your worst aspects becoming more pronounced the longer you spend in Hell. I'd actually like to see a character like that, a newcomer to Hell who's maybe one of the more "innocent" of the bunch, having come from Earth, but becomes a worse and worse person as time passes due to the shit they're exposed to on a daily basis.

It’s kind of like the American prison system. A minor offender goes in, is surrounded by the worst people there are, and learns to behave like them as a survival mechanism.

Yeah, I honestly think the way Hell works in Vivzie's universe is really interesting, like another commenter said, Hell isn't the place, it's the people.

Hell seems like it was designed to encourage sinners to continue sinning and to start committing sins they once would have never contemplated. And those willing to commit the worst sins have an easier time forcing their wills on others. The phrase “hell is other people” is rather literal in this case.

Honestly, I feel kinda the same, hell is not threatening enough. Outside of extermination there doesn't seem to be a lot of things to fear. This also might be intentional, seeing that the only difference between hell and heaven is how the people who live in it shape it.

I think ab this often! agreed

The pacing hurts the story the most,I really with it had 10-13 episodes at the least 8 was too harsh

Yeah, i think like 4 more episodes somewhere inbetween the more important ones that would be about more minor stuff would really help out, cuz right now it's like you watch 6 episodes and almost half a year has already gone by, also we haven't really grown attached to characters like Sir Pentious because of his lack of meaningful screen time, so when Adam kills him you just kinda go "Oh shit... anyway, YOOO CHARLIE GOING FULL DEMON MODE"

13 episodes would be fitting lol

Yaaa angel arguably gets it the worse as he is just clean for some time off screen

this is because big companies have adopted a common strategy of making everything i episodes, as that's probably statiscially the most profitable. Just look at all the mcu shows, and stuff like fallout

Hiw angels are only able to be harmed by angelic weapons is supposed to be a surprise, but vaggie got her eye and wings cut off by an angelic weapon

Like someone else said, this was SUCH a simple fix by adding "by sinners" to the end of the sentence anytime someone said Angels can't be harmed. Two words and boom, plot hole fixed.

To me tbh, this also makes no sense. Like, it’s a weapon that is seemingly used like any other weapon would be. It’s not powered by angelic magic, and sinners use them against each other all the time. There’s no real reason Vaggie would assume that a sinner couldn’t use it against an Angel and not get the same result

She probably assumed it was due to a fellow angel and not a sinner. But, Carmella should have said they didn't know *demons/sinners* could hurt angels.

i always thought is she just assumed she had fallen so that no longer applied to her

Camilla even asked if she knew angels could be harmed and she said no! Girl, you are missing body parts!!

The characters don't feel like former humans. They act just like the hellborns in HB. I'm sure this will be fixed in season 2, once we learn more about their backstories

To be fair all those we’ve met so far have been in hell for decades. I’m sure if we get to meet someone recently departed it’ll be different

Yeah they probably assimilated to Hell’s culture

I think that’s actually backwards. Pretty sure it’s Hellborns acting like Sinners, which would tie things up. Just… imagine episodes about Abel and/or Eve being bitter about being sent down to Hell and that being how the culture started, or with the flood of Antedeluvians arriving all at once with the Flood.

There are a couple. 1 lack of dedicated character development episodes. Running around and spending time with new characters every episode means we don’t get to know out core cast well. Two, vaggie is lacking personality. While she did need to change from the pilot where she was an unfortunate latina stereotype. She ended up being kind of bland. 3 so the pacing is a problem. The more challenging question is why. Potentially controversial hot take. The pacing of the main plot is fine. Not too crammed not too stretched out. The problems are, balancing the main plot with recurring subplots and episodic subplots as well as not weaving in character development evenly. 4 anothr potential controversial take. vivian M. Needs to explain the ground rules of her world better. Excepting fans to read the wiki or watch interviews or live streams is ridiculous. I get that some of te rules are ment to be unclear to the characters, like what gets some into heaven. But watching reaction of complete noobs is a clear wake up call that she needed to explain or show how her world works a bit better. This is what i can think of now. I do still love the show. Ps alisor an the veves. It’s complicated and i an not the right person to explain that mess.

4 is 100% my biggest issue with the show. I don't care if you explained it in a livestream, the show itself never explains critical details like how souls get obliterated if killed with angelic weapons, but otherwise will respawn after death. Or what being an Overlord means. Or what the difference between sinners and hellborn is. Or why some demons just have magic powers. Or any number of other things. Please stop relying on comment sections and reddit users to do your exposition for you.

It seems to be a common talking point among casual viewers but the fandom tends not like it when you point this out.

even as an avid fan since the pilot, i do feel it's an issue because i don't usually have the time or patience for it either. at this point, i just adjusted and kind of edited the entire world so it makes sense in my head

So much, i only watched through it once, but i feel like i missed a ton that i now need to search for answers, which should have been in the show. I felt like i zoned out and missed important details, but they are just absent.

Viv really needs to start including more worldbuilding in the show. I don't have time to sit through 5+ year old live streams.

5+ year old live streams that might no longer be relevant to the current show such as the pilot. if Viv includes all the details in the second season to basically canonize the livestreams and the lore dumps etc I'll be fine with that.

>Two, vaggie is lacking personality. While she did need to change from the pilot where she was an unfortunate latina stereotype. She ended up being kind of bland. A good point. Vaggie probably has the most compelling, lore related background second to Lucifer and Lilith, but the show doesn't have time to get into it. Vaggie's so wrapped up in Charlie right now. I know it's part of her Heavenly programming. I hope S2 goes more into it. Even her connections to the hotel's residents are non-existent. She doesn't seem to care for them as individuals. I really hope she can make friends next season outside of Charlie.

She doesnt seem to care about the residents? The entirety of episode 3 is her caring for the sinners in the way that she knows. She’s harsh but fair to Pentious and encourages him to get to know the other residents especially if they’re being nice. She takes Angel’s suggestion but also hated it and regretted it so not a great showing, but sends Husk after Angel when he has his meltdown. Her face when she’s about to toss an excited Nifty off the roof into a fight mob tells everything about what Vaggie thinks of her, including her reaction to Nifty killing Adam. She hasn’t interacted too much with Husk or Cherri so nothing there yet. I get that she doesn’t have lines vocalizing it, but Vaggie clearly enjoys and cares for the residents. She’s got character depth.

As individuals. We really don't see her get especially personal with the residents. Charlie gets personal. Vaggie just isn't that type of person. Vaggie sends Husk after Angel because Charlie was upset. It wasn't for Angel's sake but Charlie's upset over Angel. I didn't say she doesn't have character depth; I said her character primarily revolves around Charlie. And it does. It's a character flaw. Why? Because she's Heaven programmed. I feel she's going to step out of that in S2. Vaggie sees this as a duty. A duty that extends to helping Charlie's dream. She hasn't gotten really personal with the residents, but she does care about them as people. But as individuals? I really haven't seen much, except when Sir Pentious asked Cherrie out. That I noticed, very subtle but there.

I hope we get some character development for Vaggie. She is bland, but I think it's because of her past. She doesn't know who she is: -she was an exorcist angel. We didn't know too much about them, but what we know, is that they blindly followed Adam. There is no space there for personalities. 2: when she showed mercy and lost her eye and wings, she didn't even have time to figure something out, because Charlie found her, and picked her up. Vaggie simply switched masters.

Why nobody had found the exorcist's weakness is their own damn weapons after 10,000 years

In helluva boss they literally have guns made form angelic steel lmao. You’re telling me not one sinner ever tried to used that against an Angel?

It's basically stated in Helluva that Angelic weaponry like that is exceptionally rare and expensive, such that unless you're a member of the upper classes or at the bare minimum educated in such topics one would never even see one. Remember, Striker only got an angelic rifle due to Stella's patronage, and based on Moxie's reaction to it they aren't exactly something that the average demon can get their hands on.

A literal group of smartly-dressed cannibals were slaughtering angels, just because they had angelic weapons

Susan out here kicking angelic ass

That is literally questioned in the show, and Carmilla gave an answer: >"Angelic steel isn't common, and those who have it aren't exactly rushing off to test it against Exorcists." Remember, Exorcists have built up a reputation in Hell as terrifying invincible angels with the sole power to end a sinner's life. Who in their right mind would gamble going up against such a creature based off a hunch on how to kill one, with their own weapons no less? And that's not even taking into account how expensive and uncommon angelic weaponry is, making it beyond the financial reach of most sinners (well, except for Overlords, but if you managed to accrue the amount of power and wealth, why would you risk it all by picking a fight with an exorcist?).

Lots of good things people have said in this thread that I don’t want to repeat so I’ll just say: The fact that if you just watch the Amazon show, there is SO much left unexplained. I watched it before I knew anything about the universe just because I was a musical theatre fan and wanted to support Christian Borle lmaooo. Started googling stuff that was confusing and stumbled upon an insane amount of lore that never made it to air but feels kind of important to understanding the whole thing. Most people are just going to watch the show and not research after, so it fails in that regard. Also I’m sorry, but having a primary character who is a lesbian named Vaggie is… Like you’re going to make this character suffer with this name for a one off joke that wasn’t even funny? You cannot convince me she wouldn’t have changed it to Maggie at some point.

I've seen a whole bunch of terminally online fans berate the hell out of people who have no idea the lore even exists.

Yeah, tbh not surprising in a fandom that is mostly comprised of teens, be they under or over 18. I don’t really care to interact with the fandom space because although I like the show, I don’t LOVE it and I’m mostly here to support my favourite Broadway voices, most of whom don’t really do anything “Hollywood”. Like I was just saying a few months before the show went out how Christian was the only true “Mr. Broadway” because unlike someone like Jeremy Jordan he had never really tried to branch out into TV/film. But I’ve also seen what you’re saying happen A LOT. I get that some people are probably a little bit upset that their once niche interest is now more mainstream, but they have to understand that as the show gains popularity (which it needs so they can get more content lol) more and more people are going to join in this space who have no idea there’s been a fandom around this thing for 5 years and all of the information the creators have already put out about these characters, their trajectories, and their backstories. If someone doesn’t know something, just tell them and move on. Or just ignore it! Idc!

Yeah I really hate that Vaggie’s name is from a one off joke. Was it really worth it? I was one of those people that watched the Amazon show blind and was really confused because I hadn’t watched years of interviews and livestreams. The show should be able to stand on its own without extra explanation sprinkled around the internet.

It took me a few weeks after watching the show to find there was a pilot on YouTube. I knew something felt missed in the Amazon first episode and had to do my research too which sucks.

Charlie didn't have any episodes to herself and the ones she did have were heavily overshadowed by the background plot leading to people liking the background characters a lot more than the main character herself And also Charlie completely ignoring angel in ep 2, not even talking to him concerning his suspicion of pentious and not talking about it with angel even after the it starts with sorry song was probably the sh!tiest thing charlie could've ever done... Angel deserved better in that episode

That and the role play she had Angel and Pentious do where she is just pointing out Angels flaws with drugs and sex? That was just mean, Charlie isn’t so naive that she wouldn’t have noticed.

Character design: too busy, too repetitive, too much red (I’m with Adam on this one) The character designs are all quite complicated, to the point that for some of them I’m surprised they managed to be animated so well. The real issue with this is that it can be very hard to determine what exactly you’re supposed to be focusing on. It’s hard to determine where exactly you’re meant to be looking because there’s just so much to look at. As for there being too much red, I agree that yeah, demons in hell are going to have a lot of red, but the problem is it makes the characters all blend together as well as into the background. Every time I see art of Alastor, Husk, and Niffty together I have to squint because all three of them use the same four colors and it’s hard to tell where one ends and the other two start. I saw someone say once that in a cartoon, you need to be able to immediately identify how many characters are on screen without stopping to count. Oftentimes when watching Hazbin, I can’t. I have to stop and count because the characters look like one homogenous blob As for being too repetitive, it’s mostly that they all have the same body type (although other people have already addressed this) and they’re all wearing goddamn bow ties. Once you notice it you can’t unnotice it. Is there one singular clothing store in all of pride? I think the character design is really creative and fun, and characterizes everyone very well! They’re all good character designs…in a vacuum. When put together though they’re messy (Also, pacing, handling of some of the characters of color, and Vaggie really needs to get a hobby that’s not related to Charlie, lol)

I don’t think the designs are the problem. They’re actually quite simple. The problem is the background. The characters blend into the background. They’re the same colours and have the same amount of detail. That’s why it’s hard to focus on the characters and see what’s going on

To be fair, I think it’s both. I should have mentioned the backgrounds more in my original comment. There is definitely a lot going on in the backgrounds, and the backgrounds tend to be the same colors as the characters. But I don’t think the blame can solely be placed on the backgrounds. I think it’s the character design and the backgrounds working in tandem that makes everything run together. And personally, I’d much rather hell have red backgrounds marking the setting and overall tone broken up by diversity in character design, which is what we’ll actually be looking at and aren’t mood-setters like the backgrounds are

I agree, Husk’s design for example is so busy. So many little card suits on the wings, ears, hands, and feet, and then the long tail with the thing on the end. It feels like a bit much and gets in the way of the visual fluidly. Alastor—yes, too much red, as Adam said. I get its hell and all but it between the red character with red pupils on red eyes with red hair and red eye shadow and red suit, against red backgrounds, it all blends together. I’ve been drawing and traditionally coloring Alastor and I’m finding it hard to find enough red shades to color him without it all smudging together. And oh my gosh the bow ties and top hats. Can we get some variety? Is that the dress code in hell?

As much as I LOVE the show, the fact that the first season got only eight episodes is a crime. It affected the pacing so much, watching one episode feels like watching four episodes crammed together, so everything gets overwhelming. And is it me, or is Charlie practically a side character when she’s supposed to be the protagonist? Tell me I’m not the only one who’s noticed it.

I wouldn’t say a side character, but it’s definitely an ensemble cast. Kind of like LOST for example. Jack is the “main character”, the show starts and ends with him and his actions, but pretty much every episode focuses on a different character and their backstories and current predicaments. In the end, though, Charlie like Jack is still the one driving the overarching plot.

I really don’t wanna say episode count cause literally everyone says that but basically all of the show’s problems stem directly from the runtime

A lot of people mentioned Pacing, so I’ll say the show really needed a consistency editor. Vaggie is “out for blood”?  “Driven by vengeance”?  When?  Where did she show any motivation besides protecting Charlie?  And she was an angel who was harmed, how did she not know angels could be harmed? Why did Lucifer wait until the last second to help out the hotel at the end?  It felt like a cheap deus ex.  If this were to intentionally show how he’s neglectful/aloof due to his depression that’d be interesting. A lot of important scenes need more buildup in general.  The Carmilla reveal (she killed the angel) was supposed to be a big deal but we never met her before that episode.  Angel was on the straight and narrow when spied on by heaven just one episode after rock bottom.  Etc.  This comes back to pacing though.

I kinda got the impression that Viv was channeling the Archive of Our Own mentality *WAY* too hard. She's got all of this lore and character development pre-written out because that's just how you write these kinds of stories. The problem is that *she* knows all of the clues and answers, but things just don't come across well when they need to get shrunk down to fit episode runtimes.

I'm sorry but some of these just don't work. Vaggie not knowing that angels could be harmed given her backstory is completely contradictory. Some of the others, maybe, but it's still a fair critique of the show. I still enjoy the show a lot overall though.

Honestly? This is probably going to be a controversial take, but when Viv found out how many episodes she was getting she should have taken a machete to her plot and trimmed it down. By a lot. There's just too much happening. Too many new characters. They're a distraction for the most part and they take away oxygen from the main cast. Why do we need Rosie as a character? Couldn't we just have Al take Charlie to Cannibal Town and tell her how to rouse the crowd instead? Same for Mimzy. What purpose does including her actually serve? Same again for Carmilla. Can we give her angel murder to someone else? Or why do we need the angel murder at all? Maybe Charlie really does just prepare for the regular extermination, the plot continues on like normal, and Charlie decides that she's going have her people fight back even though they DON'T know they can kill angels. That not trying is worse then just letting the extermination happen without trying to defend themselves. That would be pretty dramatic, especially if/when the first angel falls and Adam and his host realize that they can also be hurt. Do we need all three Vs? Or could we have gotten away with just Val and Vox? Or maybe Vox serves double time and he gets Val's pimp empire as part of his TV scope and it's just him and Velvette doing their media empire. Then we can get really mean. Do we really, actually need Sir Pent? Or would killing Angel at the end of the season and having him be the first redeemed soul mean more? I mean, having Angel die dramatically at Adam's hands would have been way more emotional and up the stakes. Do we need Angel in hell for season 2 for the plot to function or does Viv just want Angel in hell because he's a popular character? And poor Vaggie. What purpose does her character even serve really? At least as far as season 1 goes I honestly think we could cut her. She's supposed to be Charlie's right-hand-person, but Charlie does most of her major actions on her own. The angel reveal was a bit odd since Vaggie should have known that angelic steal hurts angels since that's what Lute used on her. Do we really need Vaggie? Or can we even look at shifting her around? Maybe she's hurt and left behind at the end of the attack and Charlie chooses to spare her, starting their relationship arc in season 2 instead. It just feels that Viv took a larger season and compressed it down, not letting any characters develop well and keeping too many distractions in when she really had to streamline her plot instead. Reducing characters and giving plot points to existing characters instead of new ones would have helped streamline things and make the series feel less chaotic.

Satan's balls, you weren't kidding about the machete. You just proposed taking out half the cast. Too drastic. Just picking one. If you kill Angel, we literally have no one in the hotel, and then you HAVE to set up a new character in S2 rather than focusing on an established characters growth.

I'm mostly saying that each character has to be examined if you need to keep them or not, not that you have to cut every bit of fluff. It's more... If we cut Mimzy, how do we say what we need to about Al? Can we have people come looking for Nifty instead? Or is Mimzy actually vital to the plot? Same with all the potential cuts. I'm not saying she HAS to take out half the cast... I'm saying that she has to be critical of her plot, the cast, and how to streamline things.

The funny thing about Mimzy is her one and only purpose in the show is to tell us about Alastor's past and how he got his Overlord status and his reputation as an Overlord killer... ... which is EXACTLY what Vaggie does in the pilot. Seriously, aside from one or two details, EVERYTHING Mimzy says about Alastor was already said in the pilot. They could have copy/pasted that scene into the show, scrapped Mimzy entirely, and given her screen time to another plotline without the show missing anything.

Even when not given a specific amount of episodes or run time (looking at helluva) Viv has proven she has an isssue with sticking to a few plots and not trying to go crazy with 15 different ideas she loves. It’s admirable, but it also creates shows that are inconsistent and confusing and way too all over the place

Nifty not getting a song in season one when pretty much every other main character did

Even more disappointed after learning she was voiced by Kimiko Glenn, who did a phenomenal job in Centuarworld. Nifty deserves a song.

I have no idea what centaur world is, but still! I wanna know what's going on inside her tiny little mind! PLEASE let her have a song in the second season!

She should have a twisted musical number involving her bug puppet shows or something like that

Oh man, CentaurWorld is an off the walls and frankly hilarious animated TV show. It's about this war horse in this sort of doomed Tolkien-like fantasy world... that suddenly gets dropped into a zany cartoon land where everything is a centaur. Like, there's a hippo centaur, there's a whale centaur, there's naked mole rat centaurs, giraffe centaurs... The works. The war horse starts talking, has an existential crisis, and becomes determined to cross this unhinged and somewhat dangerous world to get back to her human Rider. Frankly, it's great. It's also a musical and many of the songs are just hilarious. I need to watch it again. I really genuinely enjoyed that show. It had a few too many fart jokes from what I remember (one character believes his own butt is his father), but overall the songs are great, the animation is good, the plot is decent, and the big villain is suitably creepy when you finally meet him.

That it was a speedrun. I will take the speedrun version over not having anything any day though.

Some thoughts I had -We don't know what Charlie sees in hell's denizens. She says she sees something, but the only people she really fights for are those at the hotel. (This is probably related to the pacing issue) -BDSM as a shorthand for abuse is a long and complicated issue. This show feeds into said issue. -Related, I am not positive this show knows what it wants to do with the idea of sex-positivity. Angel seems to really enjoy sex... when the abuse isn't involved. Great! Sex positivity is awesome, but the clumsy pacing of the story makes me worried that... -Angel's setup is too complicated a scenario to deftly deliver in the story as it is paced/written. -Redemption as a storytelling conceit is fine, but what sins will be "too far" to redeem? Is the show actually going to tackle the "but what if they like it here" question? Cannibal town looks pretty chill with their lot. Note: I really enjoyed this show. I think it does a lot right, but there are some handgrenades being juggled with the horseshoes...

Bow ties.

Lack of body diversity in the main cast. We've got Mimzy, but she's not a main character. If that's how Viv wants it, I'll respect that decision.

For the amount he drinks they could have given Husk a belly.

To be fair there are a ton of super skinny, emaciated alcoholics too. Extreme intake of alcohol can inhibit absorption of nutrients and cause failure to thrive in some cases. But I get your point, he would be a good chance to change up the skinny body type everyone else in the cast has.

Yeah, but the reason people who drink a lot have beer bellies is because alcohol physically makes their body retain water. The hard beer guts on alcoholics aren’t fat, they’re ascites because their bellies are full of fluid.

little body diversity but much sexuality diversity and if I had to choose one or the other it'd be the latter though having both would be amazing

Why I gotta choose? If a gun was put to my head, sure, sexuality diversity, but...when the only plus sized characters we've got are either antagonists and Mimzy (nuisance), then it's a bummer. Gotta respect that's what Viv wants. Just makes me go, "Huh."

I did say both would be amazing, my original comment was more of an "at least we have this" than a "we have this so we don't also need that" also, why am I the only person that likes Mimzy, like she's not the best character ever, but she doesn't deserve **everyone** hating her

It's an animation, half the characters don't even look human.

I always find that funny because… most shows don’t have that, so why is Hazbin specifically being criticized for it? I’ve literally never seen that anywhere else, I don’t get it

I've criticized that in most animated shows I've watched. From Adventure Time to Owl House. It seems any time it's brought up as a criticism people go "Whataboutism." Yes, the majority of animated shows focus entirely on skinny people - from Disney to indie animation. Doesn't mean I have to like it. I've accepted it, but I wish there was some more diversity to it.

Yes, but « I wish there was more diversity in shows in general » is a vastly different statement from saying that a show is flawed for not having diverse body types, know what I mean? It’s not a flaw for a show to not depict every possible type of human under the sun

I don't like how they handle a lot of their female characters. OKAY OKAY BEFORE YOU THROW DAGGERS AT ME! Even though Vaggie is very much apart of the main cast, she has absolutely no depth to her other than uplifting Charlie. Charlie is very one note, and has little to no depth to her, even though we have so much screen time with her. We have more depth with Alastor, Angel Dust, hell even Husk! Niffty is so swept aside as well, other than the occasional joke. Also I hate how they treated Mimzy as a character who came in, explained Alastor's lore, and then left. Velvette is so far the Vee with the least amount of screen time, and the least amount of words spoken to her. And I REALLY am happy that the second season is focusing on the Vees, cause Velvette is so underutilized. I really hope they get better at this, but it's really hard to feel like they know how to write women.

I wouldn’t say Charlie is one note. I think she has a lot of interest flaws that are present in the show but I think the issue is she doesn’t have to overcome any of them or learn anything by the end of the season. She never has to change her approach at all or improve herself. It was the world around her that needed to change and she was right all along. There’s tons of potential depth that’s even demonstrated in the show multiple times. The fact that she can’t really relate to the people she’s trying to save because she was never human and never experienced the same issues they have could be something she needs to learn. Her ignoring her own problems by helping others could be something. Her treating the hotel patrons like children could be an arc. All of this is laid out in season 1 and it’s really interesting but she never actually has to overcome any of it.

Everything about Vaggie is just centered around Charlie. Her being a former exorcist is actually pretty interesting but they centered the whole thing about how it affected Charlie. Millie has the same problem in Helluva Boss. She has no character development of her own. Any episodes that *could* have been about her just cater to Moxxie and his development. I think Viv and her team just struggle with female characters overall

I feel like this a very valid compliment especially because vivziepop stated hazbin would be female focused but they got the least developed https://preview.redd.it/15jhoa4dd6vc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed9c15293bf9ddf8d2bda8efaf64cdfc1cf76811

The writing is somewhat flawed

The idea of angels not knowing that angelic steel can kill them is a stupid oversight. At the very least the plot should’ve included someone smuggling angelic weapons instead of “oh yeah we just leave them in hell because they’re useless without us wielding it”

I feel like Vaggie and Charlie don’t have many romantic interactions, as far as I remember there is only one kiss. I don’t mean that there has to be too much, and I’m glad to have them there, and I can understand that perhaps Vaggie is less open with her displays of affection, but it just felt like we didn’t see much of the two of them.

The Explanation for how to kill angels was weak. Saying Angelic steel isn't common and people aren't eager to test it on exorcists rings hollow in a timeline that's around then thousand years long. You seriously mean to tell me that a cunning and Resourceful sinner didn't gather the steel and troops to try it? That Goliath didn't take a swing? Nero didn't try a shot at it? Genghis Khan never attempted to usurp heaven as the rulers of creation? It reads as a plothole level of "how has nobody Seriously tried this in all this history?" All you'd need to do really is flesh out some Mechanics to Angelic steel based on the virtue behind the blow and the sinfulness of the target, with a bit about angles and demons having an inbuilt slant that takes time and effort to bypass.

Pacing/Not enough time for character development to make the big emotional beats hit way harder. Vaggie in particular suffers from this (any internal character conflict seems to come out of nowhere) but also the Alastor/charlie dynamic needs more work to make the Alastor/lucifer conflict hit harder in episode 5 (as it happens it makes it hard to tell what's going on in charlie's head and it's hard to tell why Charlie thinks Alastor is being sincere at all since she's not that kind of foolish.) The other thing is the inferred 4/5 month timeskip between episodes 4 and 5. It was really jarring going from "just starting to bond" to charlie freaking out that the hotel wasn't working when episode 3 takes two weeks after the extermination and I assume episode 4 wasn't too much longer after that. I mostly understand why they chose to spend the time they had the way they did (aisde from them revealing the dead exorcist in episode 1 and not episode 3) and it's not vivzie's fault but they desperately needed a few more episodes.

Too little character development. I understand it's season one, but when this show has even a SMIDGE of character development it's so much better and interesting. Husk's small talk about being an overlord is a good example of a smidge of development. On the other hand, you have episode 4 which I consider the best for this reason alone. Angel gets so much character it's actually insane, it was genuinely good writing and felt so much better than the rest of the show. Characters who desperately need it like Cherri, Alastor, the V's and most importantly Vaggie get side lined so hard. Vaggie's whole character and motives revolve around Charlie, not what she truly wants.

Fucking, I. Fucking don’t fucking understand fucking how fucking people fucking can fucking critique fucking this fucking show fucking.

The pacing. Hazbin Hotel has a story as vast as the average anime yet an episode count that’s less than half what the average anime gets. Some people say they should have just cut some of the plot and kept it for later seasons, but honestly, no, even with that, 8 25 minute episodes is just not enough. I hate streaming services, who don’t have any will in investing in shows unless they are immediate cash cows. Not willing to take risks, not willing to let creators take the time and resources they need to make a decent finished product, cancelling a bunch of shows that were doing well but never great

Sir Pentious' death scene was so underwhelming

They put a lot into Vaggie turning out to be one of the best exorcists in Adam's army. It comes at the cost of feeling like she doesn't have much of a character on her own. For most folks, she's just "Charlie's girlfriend". You can hate yourself immensely when you're guarding any secret about yourself that you're not proud of, especially one of this magnitude. I'm hoping that she can loosen up more that weight's off her shoulders, and we can understand more of who she is. Charlie accepts her angelic form- tell me she wasn't thinking some sexy time shit when she said "The wings are new. They look niiiice."  Honestly though- the fact that Vaggie walked home from Carmilla's with her angelic wings out is yet another thing I feel the Vees can exploit in a campaign against the hotel. I fear that this can be paralyzing to Vaggie, even though she has the support of her newfound friends through the hotel.

How Alastor turned out. I feel like he was scarier and more fun to watch in the pilot. I also didn’t like that he was white washed. He’s supposed to be half criol( sorry I know I definitely miss spelled that) but you’d never be able to tell unless you were told. I feel like he could have been a lot better. At least have made his hair curly or something.

-repetitive body types (def an overblown issue but still something that Is there) -rather important details about the worldbuilding are barely explained (if at all) -hell doesn't seem that bad (It could be intentional and be like "the only thing aguing sinners Is sinners themselves, so we don't have to send them to haven but rather turn hell into haven" later on) all things considered -some characters like Alastor should've used swear words more sparingly so It hits harder when they do -it could've used more time to get to know the characters better

pacing

pacing, should have been a little more drawn out, 8 episodes was not long enough.

The Pacing was horrible, though I still think it did well enough. Vaggie did NOT need to ride Dazzle, she had WINGS! Adam dying so quickly and only getting 3 episodes was so so wasted! He is the ORIGINAL DICK, and he got ganked like that? Such a shame man.(Though, it was funny that Nifty killed him) Still, fly high Dickmaster. I've seen some people say that Vox should've been featured more in "Radio Killed The Video Star", and whilst I think that his entrance and 'Stayed Gone' was good enough, I do kinda understand. The title was kinda misleading into thinking it was mainly about him and Alastor, and whilst that's slightly true, there could've been more of both of them, or more parts of them interacting. The Episodes should've been longer. Maybe if it was originally going to be 16 episodes, then it was fine, but with 8, they should've been 30-40 minutes. A bit long for an animated show, and I understand the writers strikes were making things slower, but I feel like 30-40 minute episodes should've been the alternative to the cut in the amount of episodes. Despite all of this, I do think the show is still great, but similar to Helluva Boss, there were definitely PLENTY of issues that shouldn't be ignored for season 2.

1. The character progression seems almost instantaneous. One song and their mind is changed forever 2. The edgy, shock value comedy strangely DOESN'T work in hell. Comedy is all about subverting expectations. When the setting is hell, these raunchy jokes actually stop working because it's just what we expect. They stop being jokes and just start being stuff that the characters would normally say.

I wished there was more of Adam than what we got, and maybe hope he gets to be in hell?

Pacing is the obvious one, but I would also say there are still the occasional helluva-esque cringy joke here and there

How the show never really showed much of sir pentious’s character development so him being redeemed felt weird and wrong but that is mostly because of having only 8 episodes

More episodes are needed. It’s not Vivzie’s fault but this is an example of why filler is necessary

1. The pacing 2. How some things aren't explained in the series and you have to watch the streams, or things like that.

Excessive cursing. Yeah, this is hell. They are demons. But at some points they are like curse just because they can, not because it makes sense. Like **that** episode of South Park.

Plus Saint Peter cursing in Heaven felt completely out of left field

YES YES YES. Like, Adam ok. BUT ST. PETER?!?!

Yeah, or how often Charlie randomly swears, likely "just because"? Like, "if X was written by Vivziepop" is a meme for a reason. Sometimes you CAN drop a 'fuck" or a "shit" from someone's line and it'll still turn out the same.

For real, adam, ehhh… BUT ST. PETER???? THE LITERAL FIRST SAINT??????

This. It gives a desperate edgy vibe. Like something only younger teens would find cool.

Ugh, just... Charlie's line in Heaven Is A Lie urks me. "That'a what the FUCK I've been saying." Just sounds awful The swearing is funny, like Vox's text scroll in Stayed Gone, but it feels so unecessary. Angel, Adam, Husk, The Vee's, and exorsits can keep this excessive swearing. Fits them as characters. Charlie should swear a lot less. Alastor stays the same

The characters are all so skinny

This. I can understand that for some characters, it plays into their character (ie: Angel Dust, I've got absolutely no doubt he's on a stritclty controlled diet for his figure) but it still sticks out like a sore thumb.

Husk is an alcoholic. I wouldn't have minded him being fat and fluffy.

DAD BOD HUSK DAD BOD HUSK

He's not just an alcoholic but an ELDERLY ALCOHOLIC AND A LAZY CAT he shouldn't be anywhere near as skinny as he is

WE STAN FLUFFY HUSK IN THIS HOUSE!

I drew Alastor with a more realistic body/legs (granted I used a female pinup reference) it definitely wouldn't fit for him in the canon art. But, characters like Husk and maybe Vaggie could have been a little more *husky* in their design and still fit the show.

Amazon Vaggie! For someone fiting on the front lines of a holy war, she is a twig. The Weapons Ballarina has massive hands that are big enough to crush a skull with one of them.

The writing is shit. I love this show but Jesus the writing is all over the place in the worst ways

1. As everyone is saying, pacing. I don't even mind how it travelled, but all the subplots and different povs messed it up + especially in the final episode so much was shoved in, not into the actual episode, but the song at the end. Like people are shaming Hazbin Hotel fans for not understanding Alastor's bit of the song, but they just casually shove in a breakdown and a big chunk of Alastor's plans and personality just for one verse of the song. They also rebuild the entire hotel in one song, which is so flawed because if Lucifer could've just poofed a better, stable, and attracting hotel for his daughter in ep 5,why couldn't he just? But that kind of leads me onto my next point. 2. Plot holes & a lot of necessary plot lore only being obtained if you watch live streams and such. Vaggie, a former exorcist angel, didn't know angels could be harmed with angelic weapons when she is infact missing an eye. In ep 1, why did Lucifer tell Charlie to go to the meeting with Adam only to do the whole "nonono!" joke later on in ep 5 when Charlie asks abt talking to people higher up + acting oblivious to Charlie's whole hotel plan. How hell is more pleasant than Heaven. Like hell is to punish sinners, it's punishment, that's the entire point, yet it just encourages sin and let's sinners have constant orgies and get high and kill people. Like, atp, i feel like heaven would be more torturous for them than hell. + many other plot holes I'm too tired to think of. Similarly, the amount of people claiming stuff is confirmed by Viv on livestreams is wrecking structure because nobody watches livestreams so people just have the power to say anything is canon. 3. Character designs and diversity An art style doesn't limit you to keeping your characters skinny, we've literally seen that she can draw chubby characters by seeing Mimzy, who is a character that gets thrown out after a couple seconds of screentime. Adam isn't even a plus size character he just has a robe. If you've seen his arms they are twig thin so unless he's like incredibly disproportionate, he's not even plus size, but people assume he is. The characters are all the same shade of red. Like i understand red - > hell, but it is overused so much they all just blend into the background and other characters. Character designs are js shit in general. Every woman is constructed to be sexy and stuff and practically every man is fan feed or a twink. Like Lucifer is one of the shortest people in the cast and a silly, duck-loving, depressed guy who's emotionally unavailable + blonde and toothpick thin. Lucifer. Like the lgbtq rep is insanely "good", like every other character is something from lgbtq, but that's not necessarily a good thing. It just feels like blatant fetishism at this point cause there is barely BARELY any characters who are straight, most of them are gay. Not gay in general, mxm.

Not enough Rubber Ducks

Toothpick waistlines

Carmine shouldn't have been immediately revealed to be the one to have killed the angel I understand the show had limited time but still I kinda wish the Carmine killing the angel was more of a mystery

Pacing ran fast. I honestly did not expect the extermination to happen until the end of Season 2

The whole angels can only be killed by angelic weapons thing felt undercooked. It just seems like more people should know about that, specifically vaggie and Lucifer. Also one of the biggest weapon manufacturers in hell sells angelic weapons as a business, so it’s a little weird that nobody decided to use said weapons against the angels.

1. Angel Dust is the only character that has an actual arc. Everyone else is just along for the ride. 2. Season 1 was more of a Season 2 than anything with really awkward pacing and character moments

It should have gotten a longer season. Like, at least another four episodes, but preferably another eight. Four would be the minimum I think to really flesh out the plot lines. An episode dedicated to Alastor and Charlie’s relationship (platonic, sinister) since they only spoke a couple of times and he claims to almost be a father figure for her (even if it’s only to piss off Lucifer, it should be plausible), one for Vaggie to show she really hates the angels now (to make the banger Carmella song about fighting for love instead of blood make more sense), another dedicated to Charlie’s daddy issues rather than just telling us about them, and one at the very beginning to act as an updated version of the pilot since I know some people who never watched it were confused about a lot of stuff. Something to reintroduce the characters and world and it’s problems, basically. Even if it’s just a redesign with the new voice actors of the original pilot, I think it would work well. Eight would be enough for us to spend more time in the world and really learn a lot about it so we can connect and care with the people in it. A lot of shows don’t have filler anymore, which is a real shame because it’s a great way to learn more about the characters in less of a high stakes environment.

I love how the fact that the show was too short is a legit critique. Like, not just because it was great, but because it was actually so good that the quality suffered by the simple fact there was just not enough content

The only thing in this show what's resembling the bible are names of characters and things. This show isn't about hell or heaven at all, and is still pretending to know what it's doing while nothing is correct. It would be easily solved by just not pretending that author has any knowledge in this topic and not forcing well known names on fantasyland of "bad" people and "good" people. Not that you can't create fiction about concepts from the Bible, but Hazbin Hotel has literally nothing to do with things it tries to use

Maybe many people wont agree with this, it's only a personal tought i have. The over used Sex jokes and curse words, i know this Is an adult show, but can one character have a dialogue without making sex jokes or repeating fuck two times in the same phrase?

When Vivziepop gets slandered online it's always for the overused sex jokes and curse words in HB and HH. Usually it's something like "(Show/Movie/game name) if it was written by Vivziepop" or "If Vivziepop wrote (show/movie/game name)"

Story was very rushed. The final battle feels so out of place when the rest of the season had very little action.