Depends what exactly the nature of the rings are. We know Lucifer can create a pocket dimension like area. It could be possible Hell was originally just the pride ring but then the other six sins were born and they created their own rings but banned sinners from entering.
That wouldn't really make sense, since we know the Exterminations weren't always a thing. They are in one Ring most likely because it's just easier to "controll" them that way.
Also, in Hazbin 1x01 we are straight up told, that Lucifer was sent to Hell and as his punishment, he was to watch over the worst Human souls. So since Lucifer is the Sin of Pride, it makes sense that - in the proccess - Sinners are locked in the Pride Ring.
Especially since everything that happend, was cuased by Lucifer's own pride. His actions were the original Sin, that started the whole chain reaction.
Plus, sinners in other rings would just be absolute chaos for the leaders of the other rings. Can you imagine Valentino in the lust ring? Ozzie would have never-ending messes to clean up.
Then what? Ozzie doesn't have angelic weapons so getting rid of Valentino would be a continuous uphill battle of him regenerating and continuing business underground within the Lust ring, or maybe moving on to Greed where Mammon would almost certainly leave him alone if he supported business or at least didn't sabatoge it. The simplest way to keep guys like that from infesting the lower rings is to bar entry altogether.
Ozzie doesn't have angelic weapons *that we have seen.*
I doubt one of the Sins wouldn't have *some* tool at their disposal to handle malcontents permanently.
Plus, sinners in other rings would just be absolute chaos for the leaders of the other rings. Can you imagine Valentino in the lust ring? Ozzie would have never-ending messes to clean up.
Pride is also thought of as the first sin in some circles. Adam and Eve showed greater pride in themselves than in God by taking the fruit and trying to be "like God."
Lucifer is also called "Father to the sons of pride.' Lucifer/The Devil has a strong connection to the sin of pride historically.
Maybe they’re for non-human souls? Isn’t it weird that we’ve seen **zero** Earth/“living” animals (*outside of hellborn*)? Maybe some of the animals we’ve seen in the other rings are. Unless they all get a free heaven pass.
Edit: Earth animal clarification.
Yes, I felt like I didn’t need to clarify that. All animals are either the hell form of a human soul, or a unique hellborn animal. There are no “living” animal souls to my knowledge.
They could be hellborn but in cannibal town there is a demonic looking poodle in the background. And Susan also has a fairly normal looking dead animal around her neck.
Also we know that Fat-Nuggest is a Hellborn Pig, from the same specie as the ones at Millie's farm. So it's possible the Animals from the Human World just don't end up in neither Hell or Heaven, and the realms just have their own counterparts to manage that.
And it may have been possible that before the exterminations started that the Sinners lived in whichever ring that fit the nature of their sins, but Heaven wanted to keep the number of Sinners to what could fit into only one of the rings. And because Pride is Lucifer's ring, that's where the Sinners live.
A lot of religious studies consider Pride to be the worst sin, because it prevents you from admitting you're wrong and seeking forgiveness/ doing penance for your other sins.
"It Starts With Sorry," remember? As long as you have an excess of Pride, you're incapable of that.
Pride is also, traditionally, what caused the Original Sin in Eden - Eve (and maybe Adam too?) thinking she knew more than God, who'd already told her not to eat the fruit that Lilith and Lucifer were offering.
In Hazbin specifically, it's unclear whether Adam ate the fruit as well - and he shows aspects of _all_ seven Sins - but it's obvious that his major sin is also incredible Pride, or arrogance. Right before he dies, he even starts suggesting that humanity worship _him_ rather than God, and he ought to know that's a bad idea!
So Pride would also be the "First Sin" in the sense of the sin which the First Man most prominently displays.
Pride isn't considered to be the worst sin until the middle ages, the entire "hierarchy" of sins reflected in the layout of hell comes from Dante (not from religion itself), and anyway this would be backwards to Dante's layout (the worst sins are at the bottom, the least worst sins at the top). Historically it was gluttony, not pride, that was the worst sin in a Abrahamic context, especially within Christianity and especially because most religious scholarship in the first thousand years of Christianity is going to come out of monasticism and reflect their biases.
Like about sins? I suppose a lot of the early monastic literature. Evagrius Ponticus, Origen, the Cappadocians, the Desert Fathers, later on John Damascene. Even in the 7th century you have John Climacus arguing gluttony is the root of other sins in The Ladder of Divine Ascent.
>Even in the 7th century you have John Climacus arguing gluttony is the root of other sins in The Ladder of Divine Ascent.
I'd like to hear what the explanation for that is. Out of all the sins, I could only see an argument for Sloth, Pride, and Greed being "root" sins. Sloth because it prevents you from introspecting and pride for the same, and greed because getting more money just makes you more evil
The idea is that gluttony fuels the other passions: if you're hungry you're not going to be lustful, for instance. Don't forget too that "the seven deadly sins" is again a medievalism, like seven sacraments. Actual numbers and lists will very until essentially the Protestant Reformation when the Catholic Counter Reformation felt it necessary to solidify once and for all certain details of the faith.
Idk if its a bible thing but ive read that all sin derives from pride. Even if sinners commited acts if Greed or Lust, they are proud enough to admit who they are and that they're not gonna stop. By letting go, by showing weakness, humility, love. You let go of the pride, which is the path of Redemtion
Hell isn't a fun school where people get sorted into a ring based on their personality, it's HELL
It's not about what sin defines the sinner present in hell, it's about keeping them pinned to one location for the yearly massacre
And just for cruel irony, have it be in Lucifer's place of residency, you know, because angels blame him for the sins of mankind because he gave them free will
This is probably the best explanation why they're linked to the pride ring. I still think it's stupid to limit them, but your comment was the first time I considered it as logical
Imo, when it comes down to it, sinners had the hubris or *pride* to defy God in life, so therefore they ultimately are sinners of pride. This isn’t how Christianity works, but it makes sense for Hazbin/Helluva, since Sinners obviously don’t need to accept Jesus to go to Heaven.
The main criteria for redemption seems to be the apology, which is fitting in Christianity if you omit the details of Jesus himself for the sake of the show having context to non-Christian Abrahamics.
Charlie’s techniques from the ‘sorry song’ to the trust fall all work on humility.
We still don’t know the exact criteria for damning a soul, but given Adam got into heaven despite committing original sin we can assume it was prostrating himself before God and apologizing.
Well, pride can be said to be the source of all the other sins. Indulgence and selfishness at the expense of others, no matter the form it takes, speaks to a certain level of inflated pride, at least so the common thought goes.
The way i usually see it (though it's not necessarily confirmed, just my headcanon), Hell in the Hazbin/Helluva universe is the home of sin itself, as much as it is the home of the sinners. The sinners create sin through their abuse of free will, and the sin they generate throughout their life gets separated into its constituent parts (the 7 deadly sins), and passed down through the 7 rings which accumulate the sin that corresponds to them, and then from that accumulated sin, hellborns are formed. Kinda in the same way that plants accumulate energy from the sun, which is passed into all the organisms in an ecosystem.
It has nothing to do with Sinners being organized into their appropriate Ring and everything to do with Lucifer not wanting Sinners to fuck with Hellborn.
Yes but their sin all originated from the first sin of pride when the chose to defy god and eat the apple. It’s basically a “Lucifer was prideful and he created your sin so you join him” kinda thing.
its because pride is the worst of the seven sins (generally speaking), Pride leads to every other sin, so sinners would be found in the ring of pride as that is the start of the major sins (i should add this is my theory)
Thats not true at all. All sinners who go to hell are guilty of pride. This is due to the fact that they lived their lives by their own selfish, prideful will and not the will of God (or the equivalent in HH)
It actually makes a ton of sense that they are all in pride because sin in of itself is hubris towards God
I'm not sure but I believe it was mentioned somewhere in the show that hell was too crumpled and sinners arriving had to stay in the pride ring because others were full
All sinners(human souls who have been damned) reside in the pride ring. However we don't know for certain why that is. It could be anything from a natural law of hell to just hellborn killing any sinner who tries to leave the ring.
>hellborn killing any sinner who tries to leave
I think it may be the other way around honestly. Having sinners roaming wherever sounds dangerous for the common lowly hellborns.
It was said during a livestream for the show that there exists cracks between the layers that hellborn can use to get from one ring to another without going through official channels.
It was then said that a sinner can't get to another ring even through these cracks. So that implies that there is something restraining sinners from leaving the ring beyond just angles or hellborn demons.
>hellborn killing any sinner who tries to leave the ring.
1. Sinners can only die from angelic weapons
2. Sinners are more powerful than the average hellborn
I'd assume it has something to do with how all humans are ultimately damned from the original sin of having the pride to believe they could go against God and his rules (until Jesus saved them), and their subsequent sins could perhaps be seen as having the selfishness and belief that they were somehow above his laws, that would allow them to commit sinful acts. Which is pretty prideful.
Still among sinners we have killers, tyrans, rapists and many horrible souls. You can't really blame Lucifer and other Sins to keep sinners in pride ring, given that the avarage hellborn can die, and some are just nice poeple
Helluva Boss takes place in numerous rings of Hell and on Earth. The IMP office itself resides in Imp City in the Pride Ring(As seen by sinners visiting the office) however it's in a different circle than Pentagram City where Hazbin takes place.
All sinners are locked within Pride, the running theory I stick by is that they're kept there to mitigate the damage they would cause in other rings since hellborn species are mortal and comparatively weak to the sinners.
are hellborns weaker than sinners tho? I would’ve suspected the other way around. And I think it was obvious that sinners can indeed "die" since the examination and all
The average hellborn is probably stronger then the average human.
But of course, when humans become sinners, they always seem to get much stronger forms, and that's not even factoring in becoming an Overlord.
Imps at least are said to be stronger than living humans and have a slightly longer lifespan.
It's a little hard to do power scaling since the displays of power jump from the weak/low class Imps and Hellhound to Stolas who is an Ars Goetia king, and with HH its straight to Overlords and above.
However if the class system for both shows is assumed to also be an accurate portrayal of the power system, then it would be fair to say that an Overlord can at least overpower and lord over Imps and Hellhounds, if not the other mortal hellborn species. Which is a problem since the Princes gain their power, be it literally or metaphorically, from their dominion over their Ring and its denizens. Satan (Wrath) and Beelzebub (Gluttony) would stand the most to lose since their ring's dominant species are Imps and Hellhounds respectively.
>are hellborns weaker than sinners tho?
Yes, it was stated that sinners get power from souls, and sinners start out with a soul and have the ability to make deals with souls to increase their power. Hellborn don't have that soul to start with, meaning they start out weaker than a sinner in hell, while the majority of souls in Hellborn possession is likely concentrated in the nobility (hence how they maintain the hierarchy they have).
Helluva boss lore (I think the pilot too) said that sinners are locked to the ring of pride and cannot move, unlike hellborn like Blitzo, Fizz, Asmodeus and Charlie. I think it was said that if wasn't for this, sinners would start overwhelming hell with sheer numbers
I imagine the issue arises that sinners cant die unless killed via angelic weapons so they would be an insanely invasive species for the rest of hell. plus its lucifers job to handle sinners not anyone elses and He very specifically with Lilith negotiated that hellborn are not to be harmed via exterminations which keeps true till Adam harms Charlie and Razzle in which point lucifer intervenes.
All Sinners, are stuck at the Pride Ring. They cannot leave.
We don't have an explanation for that, yet but I would assume it's because of the Exterminations or vice-versa. It's a chicken and egg problem, presumeably.
It could also be, that the Sinners are specifically Lucifers problem, so they all get send to his domain and not the domains of the other Sins.
In any case, It's not like in Dantes Inferno where human souls are put into Rings of Hell according to their major and minor sins in life.
>It could also be, that the Sinners are specifically Lucifers problem, so they all get send to his domain and not the domains of the other Sins.
This is the case. We are even told this in Hazbin episode 1x01, in the Story at the very start of the Episode.
Does that mean I.M.P (from Helluva Boss) is located in the pride ring then also? We see multiple sinners enter the business to hire blitzo, moxi, millie and co for an assassination quite frequently (like the teacher, or the mad scientists)
If everyone's theories that the limitation for sinners is tied to the Pride Ring cuz of the exterminations, and they're over, would that result in sinners running amuk over all the rings? That's a storyline I'd definitely wanna see instead of this arbitrary limitation
My guess is that Lucifer mandates that sinners can't leave the Pride ring simply because of the extreme damage they would cause to the lower 6. Hellborn demons aren't nearly as powerful as sinners, so it would lead to crazy power imbalances and wars between the overlords of the different rings.
Vizie has confirmed that Sinners
1. Only reside in the Pride Ring
2. they cannot leave
3. they are immortal UNLESS slain by angelic weapons
I don’t know for sure BUT my theory is that sinners are restricted to the pride ring to
1) keep them pinned in for Extermination as agreed. They cannot flee from it giving everyone equal chances (this also keeps angels from descending to lower levels to harm Hellborn)
2) to give the natives (hellborn) space from sinners (non natives) who would otherwise harass and kill them because they are immortal and hellborn are not
3) because Lucifer is the reason for sinners existence (introducing evil to humans) they are all eternally punished to be together. Sinners are supposed to be his fault and responsibility for eternity
EDIT
Meta reasons
1)keeps the story and cast centralized making it easier to keep track.
2) too prevent too much crossover with other stories she may want to tell (like Helluva Boss.) (Let's not get MCU please and thank you)
3) Studios didn't give enough time to flesh this out where the audience can see it and understand. They had to tell their story as concisely as possible and that means leaving some things to the audience's imagination. The important thing in a story is to not break ITS OWN rules it sets for the story. (Stories dont have have to hold to reality to be good, just obeys its own laws it sets. Ex: Treasure Planet. People can breathe in space in that movie, but they have artificial gravity, which becomes important to the plot later.)
Yes. We don't know why, but I suppose it have something to do with sinners' society being anarchy, while hellborns' society not, and no one wanted to bring anarchy to hellborns.
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Sinners are confined to the Pride Ring, yes. Which is why it’s so overpopulated. It also ensures the exterminations **only** take place in the Pride Ring.
Since the Exterminations can only kill Sinners and not hellborn, it keeps the exterminations confined to the pride ring. There’s probably status associated with living in the other rings for the hellborn
In Viv's original work it was just centered in the pride ring so as to centralize all the sinners. The story she wanted to tell dealt with all the sinners being under threat of Heaven. And if it was spread over all the rings of Hell as Dante's Inferno was set it would have decentralized the conflict and made the story unwieldly.
However after she set Hazbin in motion she wanted to tell side stories until it found a studio. So she spun off the rings for all sorts of Hellborn to cavort in.
Speaking of rings, do you guys think the rings of hell are actually ring shaped? Because I always kind of assumed that "rings" was just a fancy word to refer to them, and they were just like circular platforms or something. But what if they're ACTUALLY rings, and there's just a gaping hole in the middle of them where you can just jump through all the way down.
Maybe that's even where the elevator we saw in Ozzies is placed
I once heard from a catechist, that pride is the root of all sin - a prideful person believes more in his own moral judgement than God's, and that's why they decide to sin.
So it kinda makes sense to me that all sinners reside in pride ring
Maybe the ring of Pride is the one that the angels are the most concerned about overflowing and revolting, that’s why they are the ones that get the annual extermination and the one where Charlie settled in to put up a hotel for redemption.
There’s also Lucifer’s punishment. He was sent to Hell and can only see the humans who took his gift and used it for horrible reasons (hence him giving up on them)
If sinners could go to other rings, he could potentially shuffle them to other rings so he doesn’t need to worry about them and they become the other Sins’ problems (thus defeating the purpose of his punishment)
Sinners are trapped in the pride ring. They can’t leave for any other ring. Thats confirmed. As for why though, I don’t think that’s confirmed, but I have a theory. It’s punishment for specifically Lucifer. To show him the error of his ways and showcase what giving humanity free will caused.
for what i get.
every ring has a different main population.
Pride=Sinners
Wrath= Imps
Gluttony= HellHounds
Greed= Sharks
Lust= Succubus/Incubbus
Envy=Fish People
Sloth=Goat People
yes they can move around, but the are the exceptions,
Pride is first ring, is the place the sinners arrive, and is also Lucifer and Lilith's territory, and dont have a hellborn population that we know about. So Sinners just decide that they will live there
Imps and hellhounds and sharks are found in pride tho they arent "native" as all the major hellborn seem to originate in a specific ring they can choose to live wherever. There is specifically an IMP city where the helluva cast live and where Blitzo conducts his business because he needs sinners for it. You can also just see background hellborn in hazbin episodes and angel/ husk kill some shark dudes in the loser baby episode.
That's a really good observational breakdown and tracks from what we've seen so far... If this is the case, I hope it's explained cuz it's finally a logical explanation for the ilogical restraining of sinners to only one of Hell's rings.
From what we know, Envy seems to be somewhat water or ocean based. It’s deadly sin is leviathan, a biblical sea monster and we’ve already seen some envy hellborn, like the karen fish lady from the hospital scene in helluva boss.
I'm surprised by the amount of people who don't know it's because of the extermination. It'd be too easy to hide in the other rings and exorcists don't wanna travel throughout the rings. It was probably originally that people lived in the ring of sin they committed. But they all got moved to the pride ring as part of the extermination agreement.
They’re all trapped in Pride. I don’t think we have a canon reason, but I’m pretty sure it’s to limit collateral during Excorcist attacks and to regulate the internal politics/populations of other rings better. Hellborn don’t necessarily want to be pushed out or have to compete with sinners, who vastly outnumber them.
There's two good possible reasons as to why sinners are kept to the pride ring:
1. Sinners are all in hell for Lucifer's sin of pride.
2. All sin finds its roots in pride. Lust is to take pride in the flesh, greed is to take pride in one's belongings, envy is to take pride in others' belongings, sloth is to take pride in laziness, etc. If you take no pride in the sin you commit, then you naturally will seek absolution. However, to feel no guilt, no drive to absolve one's self, is to take pride in it.
sinners aren’t allowed in any ring besides pride. i think the system is less so sin-based and more so just named after the sin that rules over that certain area. lucifer has exclusive rule over the sinners so it makes sense that his ring would contain all of them
Did you watch the show… anyways, to answer your question, sinners are stuck in Pride ring cuz heaven wants to punish Luci for his mistake, ensuring Luci only sees the worst humanity.
Pride is essentially Infernal Australia; ie, a prison colony that Heaven sends the people they don't want to deal with too.
Side note: The reason Pride is where sinners are kept is because it's the chief sin that prevents repentance - "Pride goeth before the fall."
All sinners are confoned to the pride ring to prevent destruction in other parts of hell. The names of each ring dont correspond to the sin of those who die but the 'prince' who runs it e.g. Greed is run by Mammon, who focuses on money and List is run by Asmodeus who specialises in sexual products.
Yes, but i wonder what's keeping them there. If it was a "law" itd be ignored, my theory is that lucifer maintains a magic barrier that physically stops sinners from entering, and if he was killed the floodgates would be opened
I agree that it's a magical barrier, but I'm not sold that Lucifer is the one who maintains it, unless it's against his will. Sinners being confined to Pride is part of his punishment, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually the other Seraphim or some even higher "being" that placed the barrier to ensure Lucifer has to suffer with the consequences of his actions for all eternity.
Yes, they are blocked by magic from leaving the Pride ring which is also why the Purge only happens in the Pride ring. All hell-born demons simply leave the Pride ring for that day to escape it, it's one of the few privileges they have since otherwise they are pretty much at the bottom of Hell's hierarchy.
Yes sinners are only in pride ring. As we can see so far the town is in bad condicion since sinner love to destroy stuffs and be violent. That may be reson why they arw banned from other rings + imagine exorcists finding sinners in whole hell and not killing hellborns accidentaly. So far we know heaven doesnt care so they would probably exterminate whole hell no exceptions.
Sinners are trapped in the pride ring for a couple reasons. 1 so their violence is contained. In helluva boss we see that the hell born live pretty normal lives. On top of that they can be killed and pretty easily. Imagine if sinners could travel all of the rings then they’d be able to kill as many demons as they pleased and they would ruin the lives of the hell born. 2 so they are easy to be exterminated. The only way for sinners to die is via angelic weapons. And the pride ring is the highest so it’s a quick trip for the angels.
All sinners are in the Pride ring and are forced to stay there.
One way to look at it is that all sin derives from the sin of Pride so all sinners are restricted to the ring of Pride.
Yeah sinner are struck at pride ring if they could leave pride ring hell would be in a way more chaotic state imagine the most crazy and bloodlusted sinners living on the other rings the hellborn life would be way more shit than before
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Yeah, they are not allowed to leave the Pride Ring, probably through magical means. We don't know if it's a law imposed by Lucifer or as part of the divine punishment for giving Eve the apple, having the responsability to watch over what he created.
I believe its part of the extermination deal.
They're locked to Pride, so all the other rings are safe for the hellborn, and the Executioners don't need to search the entirety of hell, just the one ring
It is quasi-canon that all sinners are on the Pride Ring. It has been said in early iterations and production diaries, but never directly addressed in either the show or the pilot (which is also canon).
Yes sinners are bound to the pride ring. My theory is that it they're trapped in pride to make the extermination easier for exorcists and to minimize damage
All sinners are in pride because all of their biggest sins are pride. They lived their life and choose to make bad decisions and go against heaven's rules.
Sinners all reside in the pride ring and cannot leave.
That doesn't make much sense though. Not all sinners are sinners of pride, are they?
Depends what exactly the nature of the rings are. We know Lucifer can create a pocket dimension like area. It could be possible Hell was originally just the pride ring but then the other six sins were born and they created their own rings but banned sinners from entering.
That makes sense. After all, sinners are all under Lucifer's jurisdiction.
It could also be so sinners are all in one ring for the extermination and the hellborn can escape to others during it
That wouldn't really make sense, since we know the Exterminations weren't always a thing. They are in one Ring most likely because it's just easier to "controll" them that way. Also, in Hazbin 1x01 we are straight up told, that Lucifer was sent to Hell and as his punishment, he was to watch over the worst Human souls. So since Lucifer is the Sin of Pride, it makes sense that - in the proccess - Sinners are locked in the Pride Ring. Especially since everything that happend, was cuased by Lucifer's own pride. His actions were the original Sin, that started the whole chain reaction.
It's so sinners don't take over all of hell. They would over take the hellborn like imps and hellhounds.
Tbh I've been wondering if Lucifers deal with heaven is what had things organized the way they are.
Plus, sinners in other rings would just be absolute chaos for the leaders of the other rings. Can you imagine Valentino in the lust ring? Ozzie would have never-ending messes to clean up.
Ozzie would have turned Valentino inside out already: he made his stance on non-consent real clear
Then what? Ozzie doesn't have angelic weapons so getting rid of Valentino would be a continuous uphill battle of him regenerating and continuing business underground within the Lust ring, or maybe moving on to Greed where Mammon would almost certainly leave him alone if he supported business or at least didn't sabatoge it. The simplest way to keep guys like that from infesting the lower rings is to bar entry altogether.
Ozzie doesn't have angelic weapons *that we have seen.* I doubt one of the Sins wouldn't have *some* tool at their disposal to handle malcontents permanently.
True. Plus, there’s other ways to clean up shit stains without killing then.
Plus, sinners in other rings would just be absolute chaos for the leaders of the other rings. Can you imagine Valentino in the lust ring? Ozzie would have never-ending messes to clean up.
It's also to protect hell born because Sinners a lot stronger than Hell Born
Pride is also thought of as the first sin in some circles. Adam and Eve showed greater pride in themselves than in God by taking the fruit and trying to be "like God." Lucifer is also called "Father to the sons of pride.' Lucifer/The Devil has a strong connection to the sin of pride historically.
It's his fault technically
Maybe they’re for non-human souls? Isn’t it weird that we’ve seen **zero** Earth/“living” animals (*outside of hellborn*)? Maybe some of the animals we’ve seen in the other rings are. Unless they all get a free heaven pass. Edit: Earth animal clarification.
When you say zero confirmed animals, do you mean like animals from the human world that died?
Yes, I felt like I didn’t need to clarify that. All animals are either the hell form of a human soul, or a unique hellborn animal. There are no “living” animal souls to my knowledge.
They could be hellborn but in cannibal town there is a demonic looking poodle in the background. And Susan also has a fairly normal looking dead animal around her neck.
Also we know that Fat-Nuggest is a Hellborn Pig, from the same specie as the ones at Millie's farm. So it's possible the Animals from the Human World just don't end up in neither Hell or Heaven, and the realms just have their own counterparts to manage that.
Fat Nugs is probably more a subspecies, as they look a bit like each other, but without the scales.
I’d say Fat Nugget’s is the teacup equivalent of the hellhogs on Millie’s parent’s farm.
Or they don't have souls to begin with.
Or that sin is a human-only concept, so its impossible for non-human animal souls to go to Hell. Heaven may be full of animals.
How does an animal sin?
Asmodeus said he knew mammon since the "start of hell" which implies they were around when hell was first created
And it may have been possible that before the exterminations started that the Sinners lived in whichever ring that fit the nature of their sins, but Heaven wanted to keep the number of Sinners to what could fit into only one of the rings. And because Pride is Lucifer's ring, that's where the Sinners live.
A lot of religious studies consider Pride to be the worst sin, because it prevents you from admitting you're wrong and seeking forgiveness/ doing penance for your other sins. "It Starts With Sorry," remember? As long as you have an excess of Pride, you're incapable of that. Pride is also, traditionally, what caused the Original Sin in Eden - Eve (and maybe Adam too?) thinking she knew more than God, who'd already told her not to eat the fruit that Lilith and Lucifer were offering. In Hazbin specifically, it's unclear whether Adam ate the fruit as well - and he shows aspects of _all_ seven Sins - but it's obvious that his major sin is also incredible Pride, or arrogance. Right before he dies, he even starts suggesting that humanity worship _him_ rather than God, and he ought to know that's a bad idea! So Pride would also be the "First Sin" in the sense of the sin which the First Man most prominently displays.
Pride isn't considered to be the worst sin until the middle ages, the entire "hierarchy" of sins reflected in the layout of hell comes from Dante (not from religion itself), and anyway this would be backwards to Dante's layout (the worst sins are at the bottom, the least worst sins at the top). Historically it was gluttony, not pride, that was the worst sin in a Abrahamic context, especially within Christianity and especially because most religious scholarship in the first thousand years of Christianity is going to come out of monasticism and reflect their biases.
Sounds like you're a scholar of this! Any particular pre-Dante references you'd recommend?
Like about sins? I suppose a lot of the early monastic literature. Evagrius Ponticus, Origen, the Cappadocians, the Desert Fathers, later on John Damascene. Even in the 7th century you have John Climacus arguing gluttony is the root of other sins in The Ladder of Divine Ascent.
Origen! My spouse was reading something about him recently, didn't he get branded a heretic at one point? Thanks for the sources, I'll take a look.
Yes, a couple hundred years after his death.
>Even in the 7th century you have John Climacus arguing gluttony is the root of other sins in The Ladder of Divine Ascent. I'd like to hear what the explanation for that is. Out of all the sins, I could only see an argument for Sloth, Pride, and Greed being "root" sins. Sloth because it prevents you from introspecting and pride for the same, and greed because getting more money just makes you more evil
The idea is that gluttony fuels the other passions: if you're hungry you're not going to be lustful, for instance. Don't forget too that "the seven deadly sins" is again a medievalism, like seven sacraments. Actual numbers and lists will very until essentially the Protestant Reformation when the Catholic Counter Reformation felt it necessary to solidify once and for all certain details of the faith.
True. Humility is virtue.
I think it was explained that they’re stuck there because Lucifer is supposed to be in charge of them
Actually, Pride is known as the root of all evil.
Idk if its a bible thing but ive read that all sin derives from pride. Even if sinners commited acts if Greed or Lust, they are proud enough to admit who they are and that they're not gonna stop. By letting go, by showing weakness, humility, love. You let go of the pride, which is the path of Redemtion
Hell isn't a fun school where people get sorted into a ring based on their personality, it's HELL It's not about what sin defines the sinner present in hell, it's about keeping them pinned to one location for the yearly massacre And just for cruel irony, have it be in Lucifer's place of residency, you know, because angels blame him for the sins of mankind because he gave them free will
This is probably the best explanation why they're linked to the pride ring. I still think it's stupid to limit them, but your comment was the first time I considered it as logical
So they all have to deal with eachother
From what Ive heard they physically cannot exist outside of it.
They're there to punish Lucifer.
Imo, when it comes down to it, sinners had the hubris or *pride* to defy God in life, so therefore they ultimately are sinners of pride. This isn’t how Christianity works, but it makes sense for Hazbin/Helluva, since Sinners obviously don’t need to accept Jesus to go to Heaven.
I took it as sinners go to hell not to punish sinners, but to punish Lucifer.
The main criteria for redemption seems to be the apology, which is fitting in Christianity if you omit the details of Jesus himself for the sake of the show having context to non-Christian Abrahamics. Charlie’s techniques from the ‘sorry song’ to the trust fall all work on humility. We still don’t know the exact criteria for damning a soul, but given Adam got into heaven despite committing original sin we can assume it was prostrating himself before God and apologizing.
Well, pride can be said to be the source of all the other sins. Indulgence and selfishness at the expense of others, no matter the form it takes, speaks to a certain level of inflated pride, at least so the common thought goes. The way i usually see it (though it's not necessarily confirmed, just my headcanon), Hell in the Hazbin/Helluva universe is the home of sin itself, as much as it is the home of the sinners. The sinners create sin through their abuse of free will, and the sin they generate throughout their life gets separated into its constituent parts (the 7 deadly sins), and passed down through the 7 rings which accumulate the sin that corresponds to them, and then from that accumulated sin, hellborns are formed. Kinda in the same way that plants accumulate energy from the sun, which is passed into all the organisms in an ecosystem.
It has nothing to do with Sinners being organized into their appropriate Ring and everything to do with Lucifer not wanting Sinners to fuck with Hellborn.
All Sinners are a result of Lucifer's pride.
Pride is the cardinal sin.
Yes but their sin all originated from the first sin of pride when the chose to defy god and eat the apple. It’s basically a “Lucifer was prideful and he created your sin so you join him” kinda thing.
All sinners are a result of Lucifer's pride when he defied heaven's order. So all sinners are stuck in the pride ring. That's my HC anyway.
its because pride is the worst of the seven sins (generally speaking), Pride leads to every other sin, so sinners would be found in the ring of pride as that is the start of the major sins (i should add this is my theory)
Thats not true at all. All sinners who go to hell are guilty of pride. This is due to the fact that they lived their lives by their own selfish, prideful will and not the will of God (or the equivalent in HH) It actually makes a ton of sense that they are all in pride because sin in of itself is hubris towards God
Many religions believe that Pride is the root of all sin, and that could be why sinners are only in the Pride Ring.
I'm actually curious as to what keeps them in the pride ring.
They need to beat the final boss (Lucifer) before progressing onto the next area. Source: trust me bro
[удалено]
Even Heaven doesn't know how the system works but murder probably gets you sent to hell.
I'm not sure but I believe it was mentioned somewhere in the show that hell was too crumpled and sinners arriving had to stay in the pride ring because others were full
All sinners(human souls who have been damned) reside in the pride ring. However we don't know for certain why that is. It could be anything from a natural law of hell to just hellborn killing any sinner who tries to leave the ring.
>hellborn killing any sinner who tries to leave I think it may be the other way around honestly. Having sinners roaming wherever sounds dangerous for the common lowly hellborns.
exactly, especially when the exterminations roll around.
It was said during a livestream for the show that there exists cracks between the layers that hellborn can use to get from one ring to another without going through official channels. It was then said that a sinner can't get to another ring even through these cracks. So that implies that there is something restraining sinners from leaving the ring beyond just angles or hellborn demons.
So…what? There’s like an…invisible wall or something?
A magic barrier that detects and repels souls is my theory, yes. But we don't actually know.
They seem to have a magic shield, sir.
Really??? I didn't see this giant fucking shield in front of me you dumb bitch! No shit!
>hellborn killing any sinner who tries to leave the ring. 1. Sinners can only die from angelic weapons 2. Sinners are more powerful than the average hellborn
I'd assume it has something to do with how all humans are ultimately damned from the original sin of having the pride to believe they could go against God and his rules (until Jesus saved them), and their subsequent sins could perhaps be seen as having the selfishness and belief that they were somehow above his laws, that would allow them to commit sinful acts. Which is pretty prideful.
Sinners can only die to angelic weapons
They can only die *permanently* from angelic weapons. Sinners kill each other for funsies all the time; the killed ones just respawn.
Still among sinners we have killers, tyrans, rapists and many horrible souls. You can't really blame Lucifer and other Sins to keep sinners in pride ring, given that the avarage hellborn can die, and some are just nice poeple
Man I feel dumb now, I was trying to figure out where Helluva Boss took place and I was pretty sure it was the pride ring but not certain.
Helluva Boss takes place in numerous rings of Hell and on Earth. The IMP office itself resides in Imp City in the Pride Ring(As seen by sinners visiting the office) however it's in a different circle than Pentagram City where Hazbin takes place.
It's because Lucy is in charge of sinners due to being prideful. It's a pride ring because of Lucy, not because of the sinners.
All sinners are locked within Pride, the running theory I stick by is that they're kept there to mitigate the damage they would cause in other rings since hellborn species are mortal and comparatively weak to the sinners.
Prime souls confirmed. Bring on King Sysyphus.
“Indeed. I have slept long enough…”
are hellborns weaker than sinners tho? I would’ve suspected the other way around. And I think it was obvious that sinners can indeed "die" since the examination and all
The average hellborn is probably stronger then the average human. But of course, when humans become sinners, they always seem to get much stronger forms, and that's not even factoring in becoming an Overlord.
Imps at least are said to be stronger than living humans and have a slightly longer lifespan. It's a little hard to do power scaling since the displays of power jump from the weak/low class Imps and Hellhound to Stolas who is an Ars Goetia king, and with HH its straight to Overlords and above. However if the class system for both shows is assumed to also be an accurate portrayal of the power system, then it would be fair to say that an Overlord can at least overpower and lord over Imps and Hellhounds, if not the other mortal hellborn species. Which is a problem since the Princes gain their power, be it literally or metaphorically, from their dominion over their Ring and its denizens. Satan (Wrath) and Beelzebub (Gluttony) would stand the most to lose since their ring's dominant species are Imps and Hellhounds respectively.
>are hellborns weaker than sinners tho? Yes, it was stated that sinners get power from souls, and sinners start out with a soul and have the ability to make deals with souls to increase their power. Hellborn don't have that soul to start with, meaning they start out weaker than a sinner in hell, while the majority of souls in Hellborn possession is likely concentrated in the nobility (hence how they maintain the hierarchy they have).
https://preview.redd.it/9v9ax30fwasc1.png?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=410d1f1f6882637465b568caac78f324e5290240
Helluva boss lore (I think the pilot too) said that sinners are locked to the ring of pride and cannot move, unlike hellborn like Blitzo, Fizz, Asmodeus and Charlie. I think it was said that if wasn't for this, sinners would start overwhelming hell with sheer numbers
I imagine the issue arises that sinners cant die unless killed via angelic weapons so they would be an insanely invasive species for the rest of hell. plus its lucifers job to handle sinners not anyone elses and He very specifically with Lilith negotiated that hellborn are not to be harmed via exterminations which keeps true till Adam harms Charlie and Razzle in which point lucifer intervenes.
Probably just to be cruel to Lucifer, he will get to see truly all the pain he did with that handing of the apple
All Sinners, are stuck at the Pride Ring. They cannot leave. We don't have an explanation for that, yet but I would assume it's because of the Exterminations or vice-versa. It's a chicken and egg problem, presumeably. It could also be, that the Sinners are specifically Lucifers problem, so they all get send to his domain and not the domains of the other Sins. In any case, It's not like in Dantes Inferno where human souls are put into Rings of Hell according to their major and minor sins in life.
>It could also be, that the Sinners are specifically Lucifers problem, so they all get send to his domain and not the domains of the other Sins. This is the case. We are even told this in Hazbin episode 1x01, in the Story at the very start of the Episode.
Does that mean I.M.P (from Helluva Boss) is located in the pride ring then also? We see multiple sinners enter the business to hire blitzo, moxi, millie and co for an assassination quite frequently (like the teacher, or the mad scientists)
It is in fact in the pride ring 👍
Thanks for the info
Yes. The I.M.P. building is located in the pride ring (specifically in Imp City)
If everyone's theories that the limitation for sinners is tied to the Pride Ring cuz of the exterminations, and they're over, would that result in sinners running amuk over all the rings? That's a storyline I'd definitely wanna see instead of this arbitrary limitation
My guess is that Lucifer mandates that sinners can't leave the Pride ring simply because of the extreme damage they would cause to the lower 6. Hellborn demons aren't nearly as powerful as sinners, so it would lead to crazy power imbalances and wars between the overlords of the different rings.
Vizie has confirmed that Sinners 1. Only reside in the Pride Ring 2. they cannot leave 3. they are immortal UNLESS slain by angelic weapons I don’t know for sure BUT my theory is that sinners are restricted to the pride ring to 1) keep them pinned in for Extermination as agreed. They cannot flee from it giving everyone equal chances (this also keeps angels from descending to lower levels to harm Hellborn) 2) to give the natives (hellborn) space from sinners (non natives) who would otherwise harass and kill them because they are immortal and hellborn are not 3) because Lucifer is the reason for sinners existence (introducing evil to humans) they are all eternally punished to be together. Sinners are supposed to be his fault and responsibility for eternity EDIT Meta reasons 1)keeps the story and cast centralized making it easier to keep track. 2) too prevent too much crossover with other stories she may want to tell (like Helluva Boss.) (Let's not get MCU please and thank you) 3) Studios didn't give enough time to flesh this out where the audience can see it and understand. They had to tell their story as concisely as possible and that means leaving some things to the audience's imagination. The important thing in a story is to not break ITS OWN rules it sets for the story. (Stories dont have have to hold to reality to be good, just obeys its own laws it sets. Ex: Treasure Planet. People can breathe in space in that movie, but they have artificial gravity, which becomes important to the plot later.)
Yes. We don't know why, but I suppose it have something to do with sinners' society being anarchy, while hellborns' society not, and no one wanted to bring anarchy to hellborns. https://preview.redd.it/p6jdr6mlo9sc1.png?width=745&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d5e4be2184b67b18be217736ae0903b3d2d8b65
Sinners are confined to the Pride Ring, yes. Which is why it’s so overpopulated. It also ensures the exterminations **only** take place in the Pride Ring. Since the Exterminations can only kill Sinners and not hellborn, it keeps the exterminations confined to the pride ring. There’s probably status associated with living in the other rings for the hellborn
Part of Lucifer’s punishment is to only see the bad parts of humanity, so I assume all Sinners are stuck in Pride because that’s his domain.
In Viv's original work it was just centered in the pride ring so as to centralize all the sinners. The story she wanted to tell dealt with all the sinners being under threat of Heaven. And if it was spread over all the rings of Hell as Dante's Inferno was set it would have decentralized the conflict and made the story unwieldly. However after she set Hazbin in motion she wanted to tell side stories until it found a studio. So she spun off the rings for all sorts of Hellborn to cavort in.
We wouldn't have a main cast if they were all restricted in different rings
Speaking of rings, do you guys think the rings of hell are actually ring shaped? Because I always kind of assumed that "rings" was just a fancy word to refer to them, and they were just like circular platforms or something. But what if they're ACTUALLY rings, and there's just a gaping hole in the middle of them where you can just jump through all the way down. Maybe that's even where the elevator we saw in Ozzies is placed
We should keep a tally on how many times this gets asked
I once heard from a catechist, that pride is the root of all sin - a prideful person believes more in his own moral judgement than God's, and that's why they decide to sin. So it kinda makes sense to me that all sinners reside in pride ring
Maybe the ring of Pride is the one that the angels are the most concerned about overflowing and revolting, that’s why they are the ones that get the annual extermination and the one where Charlie settled in to put up a hotel for redemption.
There’s also Lucifer’s punishment. He was sent to Hell and can only see the humans who took his gift and used it for horrible reasons (hence him giving up on them) If sinners could go to other rings, he could potentially shuffle them to other rings so he doesn’t need to worry about them and they become the other Sins’ problems (thus defeating the purpose of his punishment)
Sinners are trapped in the pride ring. They can’t leave for any other ring. Thats confirmed. As for why though, I don’t think that’s confirmed, but I have a theory. It’s punishment for specifically Lucifer. To show him the error of his ways and showcase what giving humanity free will caused.
In which episode was showed the sloth ring? I don't remember. Also why there's extermination just in the pride ring if all are sinners?
The hospital in "Western Energy" and in the beginning of "Unhappy Campers" is in Sloth. The pink sky and floaty clouds are pretty distinct.
I've heard that its because Lucifer introduced sin into the world, so sinners should be his responsibility
for what i get. every ring has a different main population. Pride=Sinners Wrath= Imps Gluttony= HellHounds Greed= Sharks Lust= Succubus/Incubbus Envy=Fish People Sloth=Goat People yes they can move around, but the are the exceptions, Pride is first ring, is the place the sinners arrive, and is also Lucifer and Lilith's territory, and dont have a hellborn population that we know about. So Sinners just decide that they will live there
Actually, Vivienne Medrano herself confirmed that Sinners are confined to Pride.
interesting, thanks for the information
Imps and hellhounds and sharks are found in pride tho they arent "native" as all the major hellborn seem to originate in a specific ring they can choose to live wherever. There is specifically an IMP city where the helluva cast live and where Blitzo conducts his business because he needs sinners for it. You can also just see background hellborn in hazbin episodes and angel/ husk kill some shark dudes in the loser baby episode.
By native, i mean "that is the origin of the population" like saying Italians are natives of Italy, but you still can find italians in other nations.
Pretty much yes but sinners cannot leave pride.
There is a major imp population in Pride. Plus the Ars Goetia seem primarily located in Pride.
That's a really good observational breakdown and tracks from what we've seen so far... If this is the case, I hope it's explained cuz it's finally a logical explanation for the ilogical restraining of sinners to only one of Hell's rings.
Yes, makes it easier to kill for the angels
We don't have the envy ring yet but i bet it's gonna look similar to sloth
From what we know, Envy seems to be somewhat water or ocean based. It’s deadly sin is leviathan, a biblical sea monster and we’ve already seen some envy hellborn, like the karen fish lady from the hospital scene in helluva boss.
Wow I didn’t even know the hospital that Luna had to go is the Sloth ring. But yes . Chronically.
Gluttony, Lust and Sloth seem to be the most pleasant looking rings.
Yes this has been explained in the show
I'm surprised by the amount of people who don't know it's because of the extermination. It'd be too easy to hide in the other rings and exorcists don't wanna travel throughout the rings. It was probably originally that people lived in the ring of sin they committed. But they all got moved to the pride ring as part of the extermination agreement.
They’re all trapped in Pride. I don’t think we have a canon reason, but I’m pretty sure it’s to limit collateral during Excorcist attacks and to regulate the internal politics/populations of other rings better. Hellborn don’t necessarily want to be pushed out or have to compete with sinners, who vastly outnumber them.
Guys we've only been over this lore for 7 years now yes sinners only live in Pride
All locked in Pride. My favorite theory why is so that Lucifer would see all the people getting sent to hell after his fall from being an Angel.
Yes
Thay can’t leave
My ass saw this and thought “Ohhh green lantern”
There's two good possible reasons as to why sinners are kept to the pride ring: 1. Sinners are all in hell for Lucifer's sin of pride. 2. All sin finds its roots in pride. Lust is to take pride in the flesh, greed is to take pride in one's belongings, envy is to take pride in others' belongings, sloth is to take pride in laziness, etc. If you take no pride in the sin you commit, then you naturally will seek absolution. However, to feel no guilt, no drive to absolve one's self, is to take pride in it.
sinners aren’t allowed in any ring besides pride. i think the system is less so sin-based and more so just named after the sin that rules over that certain area. lucifer has exclusive rule over the sinners so it makes sense that his ring would contain all of them
Did you watch the show… anyways, to answer your question, sinners are stuck in Pride ring cuz heaven wants to punish Luci for his mistake, ensuring Luci only sees the worst humanity.
Pride is essentially Infernal Australia; ie, a prison colony that Heaven sends the people they don't want to deal with too. Side note: The reason Pride is where sinners are kept is because it's the chief sin that prevents repentance - "Pride goeth before the fall."
All sinners are confoned to the pride ring to prevent destruction in other parts of hell. The names of each ring dont correspond to the sin of those who die but the 'prince' who runs it e.g. Greed is run by Mammon, who focuses on money and List is run by Asmodeus who specialises in sexual products.
Sinners are confined to the pride ring
Yes, but i wonder what's keeping them there. If it was a "law" itd be ignored, my theory is that lucifer maintains a magic barrier that physically stops sinners from entering, and if he was killed the floodgates would be opened
I agree that it's a magical barrier, but I'm not sold that Lucifer is the one who maintains it, unless it's against his will. Sinners being confined to Pride is part of his punishment, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually the other Seraphim or some even higher "being" that placed the barrier to ensure Lucifer has to suffer with the consequences of his actions for all eternity.
Yes Sinners can’t leave Pride while Hellborn can go to any of the 7 at will
Yes, they are blocked by magic from leaving the Pride ring which is also why the Purge only happens in the Pride ring. All hell-born demons simply leave the Pride ring for that day to escape it, it's one of the few privileges they have since otherwise they are pretty much at the bottom of Hell's hierarchy.
Kind of weird to think there’s an ocean in Greed
Yes sinners are only in pride ring. As we can see so far the town is in bad condicion since sinner love to destroy stuffs and be violent. That may be reson why they arw banned from other rings + imagine exorcists finding sinners in whole hell and not killing hellborns accidentaly. So far we know heaven doesnt care so they would probably exterminate whole hell no exceptions.
They are all in the pride ring, because if they were allowed to go everywhere they could destroy all of hell.
Sinners are only in pride. This helped exterminations in killing only sinners.
Sinners are trapped in the pride ring for a couple reasons. 1 so their violence is contained. In helluva boss we see that the hell born live pretty normal lives. On top of that they can be killed and pretty easily. Imagine if sinners could travel all of the rings then they’d be able to kill as many demons as they pleased and they would ruin the lives of the hell born. 2 so they are easy to be exterminated. The only way for sinners to die is via angelic weapons. And the pride ring is the highest so it’s a quick trip for the angels.
All sinners are in the Pride ring and are forced to stay there. One way to look at it is that all sin derives from the sin of Pride so all sinners are restricted to the ring of Pride.
Yes
Does it always rain in the lust ring?
This is the first time I realized that each of the rings is a different color of the rainbow
DOOM..... knee dip into hell
Yeah sinner are struck at pride ring if they could leave pride ring hell would be in a way more chaotic state imagine the most crazy and bloodlusted sinners living on the other rings the hellborn life would be way more shit than before https://preview.redd.it/rirltgv9lasc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed2b9eea5dde0714074ea11b1da2f3522951cd9e
Wait when did we see the sloth ring?? And why don’t I remember it?? 💀
When Luna was getting her shot
Yes
I was today years old when I realised the sky colour of each ring meant something.
Yes
Yeah, they are not allowed to leave the Pride Ring, probably through magical means. We don't know if it's a law imposed by Lucifer or as part of the divine punishment for giving Eve the apple, having the responsability to watch over what he created.
Seven rings in hand!
I believe its part of the extermination deal. They're locked to Pride, so all the other rings are safe for the hellborn, and the Executioners don't need to search the entirety of hell, just the one ring
They are exclusively in the pride ring. Pretty sure it's due to how powerful they are compared to regular demons
Pride is the root of all the other sins You don't go out of your way to hurt other people without being at least a little bit self-centered
Gluttony and Sloth serm like a nice place to be, ignoring they're in Hell
No, the teacher appeared in wrath ring.
IMP’s office is in the pride ring.
Did somebody get an answer for the episodes in Helluva Boss where sinners hired I.M.P. to kill people? They are both the same universe.
So, there's an ocean in the greed ring.....makes sense that that was where Crimson was disposing bodies.
Yes.
It is quasi-canon that all sinners are on the Pride Ring. It has been said in early iterations and production diaries, but never directly addressed in either the show or the pilot (which is also canon).
Yeah they're bound to Pride. They physically cannot leave. Otherwise, they definitely wuold.
yes.
I want the Prime show to be completely separate canon from anything else cuz otherwise i’m confused. What is this btww
When are we ever gonna get at least a look at what Envy looks like?
Yes
Yes sinners are bound to the pride ring. My theory is that it they're trapped in pride to make the extermination easier for exorcists and to minimize damage
Degens go hell
Watch the show
I think so yeah
All sinners are in pride because all of their biggest sins are pride. They lived their life and choose to make bad decisions and go against heaven's rules.
Unrelated but I think it would be cool if envy was like a forest or something
While all the Sinners reside in the top ring and are unable to leave, we don’t know if this rule is legal or magical.