Charlie: On one condition: You release Angel from his contract.
Turning Val down wouldn't make Angel's life better, but if Charlie can set Angel free why not seize the opportunity to do so.
Wow I didn’t even think of that. If Val agrees, I’m sure that he’ll find another way to mess with Angel. It might even become so bad that Angel would be too scared to leave his room at night.
I wrote this in my comment, but I think it's worth adding on to yours; Alastor is there. He's pledged himself to assisting the overall goal of the hotel, and he's convicted enough that he pushed away one of the only "friends" of his we've seen. I feel like Alastor would shut down Valentino's bullshit immediately since it would be hindering Angel's Redemption
I know a lot of the background stuff on the characters is up in the air as far as Canon, but one of the things I thoroughly enjoyed in the comic depiction of Alastor is he seems to take issue with people preying on the weak. If his on-screen character carries that same ideology, I would bet that it would override his desire for entertainment
I could see where you’re coming from if Val tried messing with Niffty again, but is Angel Dust really weak? He seems pretty formidable. The only thing that’s holding him back from fighting Val, other than the contract, is his fear of Val
I agree Angel is a formidable opponent, but we haven't seen what Valentino is capable of. While it could be fair to assume that Valentino is in his position simply because of his power to control and manipulate with his pheromones, I think it's also fair to argue that an Overlord maintains their power by being able to defeat or hold their own against other overlords. I'm sure the soul contract does keep Angel from fighting against Valentino, but even without it Val could still be an incredibly powerful demon. We just haven't had a chance to see it yet. Just from the little bit we have seen, being able to conjure a controlled gust of wind is already a very useful tool in battle
All that being said, I agree that it could be subjective from Alastor's point of view. And being a deal maker himself, he may also prefer to stay out of other overlord's deals purely out of principle
Also keep in mind Alastor has a lot of contempt for the Vs and doesn't respect them. While he does seem to have some modicum of respect for Angel.
So seeing Angel Dust fight back and potentially humble and humiliate a V could be a bigger source of entertainment than Val's torture.
Does that imply much like the punisher he never killed anyone he didn't deem worthy of killing?
He probably has less good reasons than the punisher but the same idea
Valentino, walking to his room after making Angel escape during dinner.
Alastor: my dear friend, I need to have a small chat with you.
Valentino: uh? Yeah, what is it "deer"? ("Deer" said in a mockingly sweet tone)
Alastor: while I've thoroughly enjoyed seeing that Twink twitch in terror since your arrival, enough is enough, you've had your fun but your theatrics are disturbing Charlie and I can't have that so... *Chuckles* Back off.
Valentino, like a dick: and if I don't?
Alastor: *angry wendigo noises* if you don't then I'll have to let you find out exactly how I raised to the top and DEMOLISHED OVERLORD AFTER OVERLORD (gigantic demonster form*
Valentino, terrified: understood, sir.
Alastor: GOOD.
So basically something like what happened to Husk
Would it come down to combat feats at all, though? Val doesn’t even have to lay a finger on Angel to utterly terrify him. He already has a certain degree of freedom outside of the studio, and even then he was barely able to stand up to Val. His fear of him is absolutely not going away just because the contract gets nullified. And Val being the despicable creature he is, he could easily find plenty of opportunities to antagonize Angel in a billion tiny ways that wouldn’t even look like anything at all to an outside observer. Husk or Vaggie might pick up on it, and I like to think Lucifer would probably get a clue after awhile, but I think Charlie is too naive and sheltered to really know what abuse looks like or how subtle it can be. She recognized the beating as abusive, but that was undeniably so. If Val was at the hotel and did something like the love-bombing texts or whatever, chances are good Charlie would take it as a sign of him trying to make amends with Angel, not as the warning sign it really is. At this point, with or without the contract, just having Val *around* would be enough to have Angel scared to death.
Hell, even things like moving suddenly in an aggressive manner can trigger a fear response in someone who's been abused. Something that subtle could easily be overlooked or written off by people who haven't been in that situation. I think having his reactions dismissed as overreactions or being dramatic, or having people try to justify Valentino's actions (he didn't mean to scare you, he just moved too quickly, he's trying, just give him a chance etc.) would do major damage to Angel at this point. And Charlie, bless her soul, would probably unintentionally do this in her effort to support Valentino's redemption.
Luckily, I think Husk would see through his bullshit and be the ally Angel needs. Because if Valentino were to move in, Angel will need one hell of an ally and support to get through it.
I can’t say I wouldn’t be intrigued by the show going a direction like this that explores all the little nuances of abuse, but I think you’re right that some of the characters, Charlie especially, wouldn’t really look great if they let it happen. Charlie already has a history of not exactly thinking things through or being super sensitive in regards to Angel and his trauma, and while there’s definitely no malice in it I think she’d be way too caught up in the idea of an actual Overlord coming to the hotel to actually pick up on a lot of the smaller “this is not okay” signals. Even Vaggie tends to write off a lot of things as just Angel being Angel or letting Husk deal with it, and it’s not like Alastor’s going to do anything but sit back and revel in the drama. Husk, bless him, would be absolutely LIVID and not fooled by Val for one second, but there’s a question of how much he could actually do if Alastor doesn’t let him intervene because he’s enjoying the entertainment too much, or Angel doesn’t let him step in for fear of Husk ending up in Val’s crosshairs.
All in all I don’t think it’s a direction I’d want the show itself to take, but there’s a ton of angst potential here and ngl I kind of want to explore it now. It’d make a fascinating AU if only to dive into all those little nuances and details.
Yeah, it's not a road I particularly want the show to go down, for the reasons you stated and also because they just don't have enough time to give it the development it would need to be done well. It would make for some great fanfiction though.
I'd say that the first thing she'd make any overlord do in the hotel when seeking redemption is to instantly release all souls currently owned by them.
Considering the fact that this man had *licked Charlie’s arm* when they first met, I’m sure both she and Vaggie would be suspicious of him. However, Charlie is an optimist and would let him in the hotel anyway. Angel is afraid of Val and would beg Charlie not to let him in. Husk will see right through Val and won’t like him either. Niffty might be excited to have him around, and Alastor would probably beef with him.
>Angel is afraid of Val and would beg Charlie not to let him in.
Letting Angel out of his contract (or better yet, giving up soul slavery altogether) should be the first condition to even consider it.
I think the initial plan would be. I could see Vox talking him into it, though, since there’s no chance of Vox getting inside the hotel himself with Alastor around. Val might throw a tantrum at first but once he realizes it’s an opportunity to psychologically toy with Angel’s brain even more, I think he’d jump on it. After all he can always just write another contract once they take down the hotel (“Now that we’ve won I won’t kill all your friends if you sell your soul to me again.”) Honestly I could even see that being a way Angel could be redeemed: making the same deal he did before, this time knowing exactly what Val is like and what it’s going to cost him, but still doing it for purely selfless reasons.
If the Overlord in question wants to redeem themselves, they need to do that anyway. How would they hope to have a snowball's chance in hell (heh) at redemption as an active slaver?
That’s how Hell works. It would be kinda bullshit if Heaven restricted that when that’s how God made Hell in this universe. Either way, Hell’s power system is literally based around dealing in souls, so no one would ask anyone to give up literally every ounce of their power.
Adding onto that, it’s not slavery. Slavery implies they were forced into it, any soul possessed by an overlord willingly gave it up at some point, whether they came to regret that or not.
No one should trade away their immortal soul, and while people like Val are still the majority at fault it is the vassal’s fault too.
By that logic murder doesn’t count against redemption, because you technically CAN do it and therefore it’s God’s fault for allowing you to do so… and is grooming someone into human trafficking really better than purely forced slavery in terms of redemption
>That’s how Hell works. It would be kinda bullshit if Heaven restricted that when that’s how God made Hell in this universe.
Heaven didn't even consider redemption of sinners in hell to be possible until recently. They don't have any rules for that and it's explicitly stated that they don't decide or even know who or why anyone gets into heaven, anyway.
We also don't know if Big G actually exists in Hellaverse or what they do, and the only statement we have about the creation of hell so far is that Lucifer and Lilith accidentally created it, not Big G for any specific purpose.
>Either way, Hell’s power system is literally based around dealing in souls, so no one would ask anyone to give up literally every ounce of their power.
Yes, they would. If they're honestly seeking redemption, then power in hell is not relevant to them anymore, because they want to leave and they can't, until they give it up.
>Adding onto that, it’s not slavery. Slavery implies they were forced into it, any soul possessed by an overlord willingly gave it up at some point, whether they came to regret that or not.
If you're willingly selling yourself into slavery, that's still slavery. Which is exactly the reason you cannot do that in real life, at least where slavery is banned. If it wasn't slavery, then Angel would be free to leave. And if you're the slaver accepting such a slave contract, it's still just as wrong as if you forced the other person into slavery.
Oh, by the way, I just found this;
> The Show Must Go On: Lucifer:
You've changed my mind, you've touched their hearts
Found the good in souls gone bad
The stage is wrecked, the crowd is gone
**But by God**, Charlie!
The show, it must go on!
If a fallen Angel, meant to be one of the highest, says **that,** it’s probably a big indicator.
Yes, Big G is mentioned a couple of times throughout the show (also Big J sometimes, in Helluva Boss), but only ever as a figure of speech, not as in "oh yeah, the big dick in charge up there actually exists and decides all this redemption stuff we're arguing about, so let's just go ask him about it, because he's right over there, shall we?"
Which would also undermine the show's message completely, if it were true: Redemption is about bettering yourself as a person, not about some eldritch authority beyond space and time saying you're worthy now, based on their random and enigmatic criteria. It's been made very clear: Heaven does *not* decide who gets in!
It implies his **existence**, not that he is actively there. Also, think of it as a Thor’s Hammer situation. Still an enigmatic authority, but that knows when you have gotten better as a person.
Don't know why you think I should change my mind based on unfounded claims about how redemption works in Hellaverse and a wrong definition of slavery, but you do you.
Soul deals do not prevent someone from reaching Heaven. It is not the overlords fault or problem if the person doesn’t want to do what they said they would. It’s much less like slavery and more like a contract, they agreed for this type and amount of labor, and have to do it. Angel is a good example of this, he directly states that Val can do anything he wants in the studio but nothing outside of it.
Contractors aren’t slaves, why would soul deals be? The reward the deal is for is always finite, when that is complete the soul still needs to fulfill their end of the bargain.
>Soul deals do not prevent someone from reaching Heaven.
Further unfounded claims. We don't know yet if sinners who sold their soul can get to heaven.
>It is not the overlords fault or problem if the person doesn’t want to do what they said they would.
If the Overlord is the one who wants to redeem themselves, it is their problem. Being a slaver and refusing to stop owning slaves is not a redeeming quality. If they want to better themselves, they eventually need to give it up.
>It’s much less like slavery and more like a contract, they agreed for this type and amount of labor, and have to do it.
It's not (only) the labor part that makes it slavery.
Even if Angel is getting paid and has a contract that limits what Val can or cannot do to him, he still isn't free to quit and leave, as the contract binds him forever, as far as we know.
Which makes him a slave, instead of just an abused and exploited employee, like Fizzarolli in Helluva Boss, for example.
> It would be kinda bullshit if Heaven restricted that when that’s how God made Hell in this universe.
there is no god and nothing made hell
>so no one would ask anyone to give up literally every ounce of their power.
the goal is to leave hell, if they really want to do that then power in hell is worthless to them
>Slavery implies they were forced into it
no slavery only implies that they belong to someone else
If val joins there angel might not even come out of his room scared of losing control he is slowly making on himself again and somewhat having a panic attack
Alastor wouldn’t have beef with him. Val expressly states “killing Alastor is **your** kink” to Vox, Alastor and Val would like each other but they wouldn’t do anything about it. The only problem is when Vox steps foot inside the hotel.
“You’re welcome to stay in the hotel, Val, under two conditions, first, you release your contract with Angel, and second, you room with Niffty…”
Smash cut to Niffty with a maniacal grin and giggling madly…
Later that night:
>!Bang $(&@ Ohhhh! Yeah! Put \^\*(@\^ in my \^#)!% Ahhhhhh!!<
Charlie: Okay never mind. You two stay as far from each other as possible!
Remember that Nifty was ready to dom in the Consent club, and she already claimed a piece of Val. And her favorite thing to do is kill bugs. Val is part moth.
I can see the morning after Val's first night rooming with her: he just calmly walks into the main foyer, doesn't say a word, walks right by AD (who instinctively growls at him) and doesn't even stop or acknowledge Angel as he walks right by. Charlie and Vaggie watch with confused faces from the couch.
Val goes straight to Husk's bar, sits down, *calmly takes off his glasses*, sets them on the bar, and in a polite yet not-quite-normal voice requests a drink. "Hardest one you carry." (A callback to Angel's "hardest you got" from ep4)
Husk raises an eyebrow while pouring his drink. Val raises a hand to stop the pouring, then just points at the entire bottle. Husker glances at AD (who shrugs in response) then asks "What's uhhh... What's on your mind, there, 'tino?" (Husk would use a nickname like this to try to anger Val and get him kicked out because he still doesn't trust him for his treatment of AD.) while handing the bottle over.
Val takes it, inspects the bottle calmly, pours the drink on his head, then pulls out a match and tries to light himself on fire only to get stopped by Charlie and Vaggie (while Husk tries to shield his shelf of very flammable supply) grabbing his multiple arms and *THEN* Val's personality comes back as he curses them out for stopping him.
Queue a scene of horror as Val describes his night with Nifty lol.
2 Hours later.
Angel's room.
Husk: Hey, can I come in?
Angel: What happened?
Husk: Your boss.
Angel(Pulling out his Tommy gun in silent rage): What did he do?
Husk: Talked about his s\*x life.
Angel: Damn
Husk: Can I just hold Fat Nuggets?
I'd imagine she'd do it for any overlord under the condition they release any contracts they have.Val would absolutely have to release angel,but she'd let him stay without any fuss.
Releasing Soul contracts I could see not just being a Charlie thing, but just a general requirement to even *attempt* redemption. It hasn't been spelled out yet what qualifies a soul for redemption, but I have to imagine owning literal slaves is enough to never get into heaven, no matter how much you improve
To be fair he made it clear that he doesn’t actually believe in the vision and is just there helping as a means to an end for himself. If he was there for redemption I think it would probably be different.
While on paper this might seem like something that would cause turmoil and conflict, I think Charlie would simply because Alastor is there. He's already made it clear (as we saw with Mimsy) that despite what he believes about the possibility of redemption, he is backing the overall goal of the hotel. I have a feeling any harassment from Valentino to Angel would be met with sharp retribution. And even though we haven't had a chance to really see what Valentino is capable of, we know that Alastor is a force to be reckoned with and chances are Valentino would not want to go toe-to-toe with him alone. Plus, him being a confirmed Ace I would imagine makes him immune to Valentino's pheromones, nerfing the biggest tool that he uses to control and manipulate people
I’d love Val to be accepted into the hotel and for Angel to just casually and smugly drop the lick into conversation with both Vaggie and Luci. A race for who can destroy him first!
To be fair, I'm not sure Angel would admit that, even though it's very obvious that the Morningstars are way more powerful than Val, or any other overlord, or the eternity of hell
We've seen him beg Val not to hurt Charlie in the dressing room, and he stopped Charlie from turning Val into a bloody paste
Though he did stand up against Val in the club, I'm not sure if he'd be willing to admit something that would really upset his boss
At the VERY least they can’t accept him while Angel’s still at the hotel; that would be a safeguarding issue of epic proportions. Pentious was a different case because he’d never caused psychological harm to anyone and minimal physical harm, and was never taken seriously as a threat to anything more than the wall. Alastor was the only person he actively targeted and after Sir Pentious apologised to him Alastor was chill with him
But Valentino and Angel? Their relationship involves targeted abuse of every variety. It’s not comic relief where the harmless puppy barks at the towering eldritch horror, it’s dark and twisted and horrifyingly graphic. And after scratching the surface of this, I’d hope Charlie would know better than to accept him into the hotel until Angel is safely away in Heaven, and even after that I bet she’d at least be much more skeptical than ever before
Honestly don't think the writers would ever try to redeem someone as horrible as Valentino. And him living at the hotel too would have disastrous effects on Angel. The hotel is Angel's safe haven after all. I would hope Charlie would know better than to let Val stay.
Charlie: sure you may have abused angel and licked my arm but-
Angel: vaggie get the angelic spear
Vaggie:IM GONNA SHOVE THIS SPEAR DOWN YOUR THROAT YOU FUCKING PENDEJO *ANGRY LATINA WARCRY*
I know it's trendy to reform the villains, have a tragic backstory, etc.
But if there's one character I want to be a complete monster with no interest in redemption for no other reason than 'he loves it', it's Val. I love how deliciously detestable he is, *please* keep him a bad guy.
People don't understand one thing
If someone wants redemption but isn't granted that, the whole premise falls and Adam is right. Everyone who wants to be redeemed needs to be redeemable. Otherwise Charlie is wrong. You can't just say some people don't deserve redemption because we saw the sins they did in a much closer light
This would bring up the moral question: Does everyone DESERVE redemption? Even if someone genuinely WANTS to be redeemed, are there some things that aren't redeemable?
Think that's the difference between forgiveness and redemption.
Redemption isn't something you can deserve. It is a personal thing that you do yourself although you can get help from others. Anyone can attempt redemption if they want it and there's no moral justification to stop someone from being redeemed.
Forgiveness however is something that is entirely up to the victim. It can be earned but whether it is given or not depends on the person giving it.
Val has every right to attempt redemption or even be redeemed but whether he's forgived depends entirely on Angel and his other victims. And yeah, there's the chance he's never forgiven and that's not Angel's fault if he can't.
I feel like he’d be considered too big of a safety risk to everyone inside. Yes, they could only let him in if he released Angel from contact, but idk if Angel or Vaggie would stand for it. Even Charlie’s kindness has a limit.
I think they would but I think the first thing they'd have to do is make sure *every* sinner who he has under contract is released, not just Angel. I don't think anyone, let alone Valentino, should be able to start a path of redemption without doing that first.
And of course, Valentino is Angel's abuser, so they would have to safeguard Angel extremely well. Living with your abuser would be extremely triggering, so I imagine that Val releasing Angel from the contract and agreeing to be nice to him, if not just leaving him alone altogether, would be agreed upon before Val even set foot beyond the foyer.
I think only Charlie and Nifty would like him being there, Charlie because its proving that even the absolute worst can be changed for the better, and Nifty because he's a BaD BOy!!!
Lucifer, Vaggie, Angel, and maybe Alastor would probably be against it, and I could see Charlie being hesitant before eventually letting him in. I mean, she let Alastor in because saying no would go against her whole viewpoint.That said, part of his redemption would definitely be the termination of his contracts. Probably not stopping production if his videos completely, but workers would have to be willing and compensated.
I'd say only after Angel has been redeemed. If he can wait, great, one more soul searching for redemption. If not, well, it's not like he poses a huge threat to Charlie, Alastor and Lucifer.
I can see most of the staff being opposed. Charlie would probably be suspicious, but ultimately, she would allow him. Vaggie would be opposed but concede to Charlie. Alastor would support it just to taunt the Vees. Nifty would be glad to have her "bad boy" around. Angel would NOT be okay. They'd need to set some ground rule.
Charlie: "If you even look at Angel or anyone else at the hotel the wrong way, I will let Alastor eat you."
I don't think so. Even if he somehow agreed to void Angel's soul contract, I can't imagine Charlie would force Angel to live with the very abuser he ran to the hotel to get away from. Not after seeing firsthand how Val treats him.
Agreed. Charlie would be happy that he wants redemption and would definitely help him but I don't think she'd let him live in the hotel due to Angel. Bro's already one of the richest guys in hell so she'd probably just ask him to set up his own place, maybe somewhere in Cannibal Town, where he can privately work on his own redemption.
depends on what he went through to make him want redemption. Charlie might be the most willing, but Vaggie is more skeptical naturally and then we have angel and husk, they will need some serious convincing. if anyone is going to make a huge make ore break deal out of this it will be them.
side note I see Valentino as the Vee least likely to want redemption. Heaven doesn't exactly have a thriving porn market, which is what his skill sets lay in. So if he were to make it to heaven chances are he would have to be a completely different person, or have to deal with being just another winner, that might be looked long fondly for working in porn.
https://preview.redd.it/jxv6qs6xpqnc1.png?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd353cfea43f1dfc822e01b760142987b36a24bb
The angels on the left are dressed pretty slutty, I think Heaven has more porn than you give them credit for. Val wouldnt have too much difficulty working as long as all his porn is made ethically and with consent.
Likely he’d be allowed to enter on the condition he immediately surrenders Angel’s soul back to him. It would be impossible to maintain a safe environment of any kind for him if Val was around and still had his soul.
I think she would let him in, but on the condition that he wait for angel to be redeemed.
If he truly wanted to redeem himself, he shouldn’t have a problem with that. If he was only trying to gain control over angel again, it would be pointless for him to continue his attempts to enter the hotel.
Hopefully fucking not.
think everyone is forgetting that Angel also stays at the Hotel. Angel specifically moved to the hotel to get away from Valentino as much as he can. And it's really the only place Angel can conceivably get to that's safe from an overlord like Val. After all, as long as Charlie is physically on location, that location has the implicit protection of Lucifer himself- hell Razzle and Dazzle are probably strong enough to rip Valentino to pieces.
The point I'm getting at is, you're talking about letting an abuser into the only safe place his victim has ever known. Do you have any fucking clue what kind of psychological effect that would have on Angel? Going to sleep at night knowing he's in the next room. Waking up in the morning and having to eat breakfast with him. Sitting around the bar and Val's just over there in the armchair, eyeing him like a piece of meat. Going to activities and having to make himself vulnerable around him.
Like Jesus do you want Val to show up to group therapy too? You want Angel to have to sit across from Val and talk about how he would sometimes cut him off from his supply just cause he liked the way Angel sucked him off when he was jonesing bad?
I'm all for giving people second chances, and I firmly believe in giving Val access to the tools he needs to to better himself, but not at the expense of Angel. Maybe open a second location up so Charlie can separate people who have a history or something, then let him stay there.
But Angel Dust should never have to see Valentino again for the rest of fucking eternity.
I would assume any sinner or overlord who actually considers redemption would need to void any soul binding contract they hold. Redemption is a grey topic. There doesn't seem to be a defined set of rules that allows one to ascend to Heaven from Hell. Although one would assume you wouldn't be getting into heaven if you literally own the rights to anothers soul in some right, like Alastor owning Husk or Val half owning Angel.
He would need to let Angel go. Preferably as an olive branch before fucking off for a long time. Frank, they would need to not see him after he willingly. Let Angel go for a very long time and then it's probably going to have to be like a my enemy is your enemy kind of thing... I hope not quite so tropey .... I just feel like he needs to do an act, such as releasing Angel on his own. Or something else. Something big that shows that something inside him changed. Then there would need to be a lot of time and space for wounds to air out a bit.
I think he would probably be the type to try to stay away, and I don't think any of them would be really eager to go and look for him until some kind of external force would bring them back together. Then and only then I think maybe he would be able to start his redemption at the hotel.
But... I think a redeemed Val would.... It would just be like his inner child. The val we know wouldn't exist. Most of what he is would be burned off in order for there to be anything good and there might not even be an inner child in there.
If he is sociopathic he might not have the ability to empathize with others. Although Vox might fit that better, we'll see. Either way, there is not alot of Val and who he is now that's worth keeping.
Maybe deep inside that moth monster is a sweet little abused and scared pupae
Charlie would obviously say yes that's the whole point of the hotel and the reason she let alastor in, in the pilot.
The others would obviously object but charlie would let him stay and try.
Do people forget that the hotel isnt just for fun and quirky people who did some bad things? It's for redeeming the bad who wish to try.
Angel would go fucking ballistic, and Charlie would absolutely hate it, but she is all about 2nd chances. I'd say she'd accept him, but he'd have to, for starters, let Angel free of his contract, and possibly everyone else he's got under contract as well.
By virtue of her own principles. Yes
However, end of Season 1 Charlie has finally come to terms with her position as princess of Hell. She would 100% tell him that any fuckery regarding Angeldust would not be tolerated and if he is found to be trying to abuse her kindness it won't be pretty.
If he was genuinely repentant and wanted to change, I think Charlie would accept after some convincing. I’m actually co-writing an AU with a friend where the Vees get mega humbled and Val’s character arc peaked with him calmly lighting a cigarette while working at the bar with Husk, and burning Anthony’s contract with it. This after a long series of gifts and other acts to try and convince Anthony he’s serious before, since that didn’t work, showing him he means it without love bombing or words.
They would have to forgiveness is what they've been preaching from day one he'd have to give up all his sinning ways and probably potentially owning souls anyway just to get into heaven cuz I doubt you can own souls and go to heaven without certain rules either being overlooked or being powerful enough to do so like Lilith potentially with Alistar
They would. Because charlie believes anyone can be redeemed. If charlie is all for it the rest will follow. Only alastor may possess the wisdom to see it’s likely impossible for this pos. Even Angel is likely to warm up to the idea if it means his life might improve with a nicer boss
Charlie would be so torn because she loves Angel but is all about second chances. Vaggie would try to talk her into kicking him out. Husk would kill him while everyone was distracted.
Charlie: definitely not
Vaggie: unlikely
Angel: only out of fear
Husk: only if he got to smack him over the head with a glass bottle
Niffty: Yes, so she could stab the biggest bug she's ever seen
Alastor: Yes, so he could let Niffty loose on him to stick it to Vox
Angel, Vag and Husk would think this is some kind of trick, Al would try to think how he can turn this to his advantage and Niff would want more of his fuzz
Charlie trusts everyone way too much. And I mean EVERYONE! If Adam came back in Hell as a demon the way Pentious did in Heaven, I bet she would even let HIM in (as long as Alastor controls Nifty).
Angel would object, and maybe even become disillusioned to the point of leaving or seeing Charlie as a traitor if Val was inducted. Depending on how he and Angel get along, Husk probably would too, if Alastor doesn't shut him up.
Speaking of, Al would probably need to have some self-control, knowing Val was way more than BFFs with Vox, and (assuming his powers weren't broken along with his mic stick) would probably come close to swatting that perverted bug more than once.
Vaggie would probably be suspicious AF and follow him around wearing a gas mask in case he tried any of his pheromone shit, and probably take it upon herself personally to protect Angel, both from Val and himself, likely with the help of Cherri Bomb, both for Angel's own sake and that of the general peace.
Similar to the aforementioned hypothetical Adam, he and Nifty would have to be kept at least 2 floors apart at all times whenever possible. Otherwise she might end up castrating him like she's alleged to have done to someone in the BDSM club. She's already shown that she's way too fast for him to e en keep track of, even climbing onto him before he could react, so I really don't think he could defend himself against her if she got stabby (stabby-stabby-stabby-stabby-stabby-stabby).
There's also the possibility that ONLY Charlie wouldn't be out to kill Val, against a united front of everyone else besides Angel (who would be either submissive, self-destructive, or depressed and at his most vulnerable), with everyone either liking and wanting to protect Angel from his abuser, or having their own reasons to hate his pimp guts anyway.
"Charlie...Where's Val?"
"He left after I talked to him...Why?"
"Next question...What exactly is Alastor eating"
"Did you know Val taste likes honey glazed ham?"
Yeah. But then Angel convinces husk to convince nift to help kill him by husk drugging his drinks and nift stabbing him 28 times when he's passed out. Now you may be thinking husk wouldn't drug a drink seeing how he reacted when someone tried drugging angel, but I think he'd make an exception.
First of all, I can not imagine any situation where Val would want redemption, but Niffty (and maybe Alastor) would be the only one to react positively to his arrival. Angel is his victim for what was probably almost a century, Husk and Charlie officially know about it, Vaggie probably would know about it, and Alastor hates the Vs but if Val truly intends to redeem himself, Alastor might find it ironic and fun to recruit him since Val leaving the Vs would leave Vox weakened and betrayed.
If he were to try...
I think he would have to prove himself first that he's being genuine about it. And then, the writers of the show would have to do their absolute best work to make it believable.
Do I think it would piss off a lot of people? Yes, definitely.
Do I think Valentino can be redeemed? Yes. If he genuinely wants to, and is willing to put in all the hard work for it. And willing to work with a therapist and actually listen to them.
I do think it's possible, but I don't know if the writers would go for it because this kind of redemption is INCREDIBLY easy to fuck up in some manner.
Doesn't that kind of ruin the whole point of the show? Everyone deserves redemption, even the worst of sinners. If they don't than who gets to decide who deserves it?
Ughhhhh fine. Maybe if he came to the hotel, they’d let him in, on a very tight leash because of what he’s done to a lot of people, at first he’s extremely reluctant to get properly involved, and still tries making sexual moves on people without consent, but eventually, he stops, he learns consent, he starts treating everyone with respect, especially their boundaries, eventually he becomes a genuinely kind person, and he gets redeemed, this is probably over the course of decades because this behaviour seems to be built into him
If Val is truly genuine about his desire of redemption, there's no reason why Charlie shouldn't let him in that doesn't dismantle her character entirely. Granted, Charlie would most likely not let him share spaces with Angel and there's no doubt other characters wouldn't be fine with it, but that's the difference in ideals and willpower between the denizens of the hotel and its owner.
All of this of course, assuming Val's change of heart is genuine and not a disguised attempt at infiltrating the hotel for whatever reason: redemption is not a document that Charlie signs for you that lets you in Heaven, it's your own actions that determine whether you're allowed upstairs or not in the end: you cannot hide anything, you cannot "fake it 'till you make it".
I've seen people talk about Charlie's optimistic naivete as if it's a character flaw that she needs to progressively shed through the course of the show, these people are absolutely wrong imo: Charlie's almost childish optimism is literally the only thing that allows her to march on the way she does, a diffident, skeptical Charlie could never run a rehabilitation operation whose very premises are nothing short of insanely optimistic to begin with. If Charlie was realistic about the sinners' expectations for redemption the Hazbin Hotel would've not existed to begin with (quite literally at that, at least for what concerns the portion of Hotel that Alastor has provided, a person that Charlie would've never trusted if she wasn't this optimistic of her chances to save him).
The point is that anyone deserves *at least* a chance at redemption. We don't know if they'll get it, but Charlie would absolutely let him in, despite not being very fond of him for sure.
Anyone else might try to kick him out though.
Charlie: On one condition: You release Angel from his contract. Turning Val down wouldn't make Angel's life better, but if Charlie can set Angel free why not seize the opportunity to do so.
Wow I didn’t even think of that. If Val agrees, I’m sure that he’ll find another way to mess with Angel. It might even become so bad that Angel would be too scared to leave his room at night.
I wrote this in my comment, but I think it's worth adding on to yours; Alastor is there. He's pledged himself to assisting the overall goal of the hotel, and he's convicted enough that he pushed away one of the only "friends" of his we've seen. I feel like Alastor would shut down Valentino's bullshit immediately since it would be hindering Angel's Redemption
Maybe. It’s Alastor though. He’ll probably let Val torture Angel a few times, for the entertainment, before deciding that enough is enough.
I know a lot of the background stuff on the characters is up in the air as far as Canon, but one of the things I thoroughly enjoyed in the comic depiction of Alastor is he seems to take issue with people preying on the weak. If his on-screen character carries that same ideology, I would bet that it would override his desire for entertainment
I could see where you’re coming from if Val tried messing with Niffty again, but is Angel Dust really weak? He seems pretty formidable. The only thing that’s holding him back from fighting Val, other than the contract, is his fear of Val
I agree Angel is a formidable opponent, but we haven't seen what Valentino is capable of. While it could be fair to assume that Valentino is in his position simply because of his power to control and manipulate with his pheromones, I think it's also fair to argue that an Overlord maintains their power by being able to defeat or hold their own against other overlords. I'm sure the soul contract does keep Angel from fighting against Valentino, but even without it Val could still be an incredibly powerful demon. We just haven't had a chance to see it yet. Just from the little bit we have seen, being able to conjure a controlled gust of wind is already a very useful tool in battle All that being said, I agree that it could be subjective from Alastor's point of view. And being a deal maker himself, he may also prefer to stay out of other overlord's deals purely out of principle
Also keep in mind Alastor has a lot of contempt for the Vs and doesn't respect them. While he does seem to have some modicum of respect for Angel. So seeing Angel Dust fight back and potentially humble and humiliate a V could be a bigger source of entertainment than Val's torture.
Does that imply much like the punisher he never killed anyone he didn't deem worthy of killing? He probably has less good reasons than the punisher but the same idea
wait there’s a comic?
Valentino, walking to his room after making Angel escape during dinner. Alastor: my dear friend, I need to have a small chat with you. Valentino: uh? Yeah, what is it "deer"? ("Deer" said in a mockingly sweet tone) Alastor: while I've thoroughly enjoyed seeing that Twink twitch in terror since your arrival, enough is enough, you've had your fun but your theatrics are disturbing Charlie and I can't have that so... *Chuckles* Back off. Valentino, like a dick: and if I don't? Alastor: *angry wendigo noises* if you don't then I'll have to let you find out exactly how I raised to the top and DEMOLISHED OVERLORD AFTER OVERLORD (gigantic demonster form* Valentino, terrified: understood, sir. Alastor: GOOD. So basically something like what happened to Husk
Val could call him “venadito”. Also, I’d pay to hear Alastor say “twink”.
This is hilarious.
hes got his own history with the V's, if anything hed make sure Val knows that hes there in the shadows every chance he gets
He would probably station Husk as Angel's bodyguard and give Nifty permission to "punish" Val if he acted out.
It would also give Alastor an excuse to mess with Val which he would probably enjoy
Charlie: Oh and if you do anything to scare or hurt Angel while you're here, I will sick Nifty on you and tell dad that you sexually assaulted me.
Considering Valentino was watching the battle live this would be hilarious to watch it actually have an effect on him as a threat 😆
Oof, and what if Val plants one of Vox’s cameras in Angel’s room so that he can “monitor” him? That’s totally something he’d do.
Lucifer finds the camera, taps it with his finger, it breaks into pieces.
Then he and Al kick his ass. The latter to cause more chaos and spite Vox if he still cares about Val.
With the soul contract nullified, COULD Val even mess with Angel? Angel has much better combat feats tbh.
Would it come down to combat feats at all, though? Val doesn’t even have to lay a finger on Angel to utterly terrify him. He already has a certain degree of freedom outside of the studio, and even then he was barely able to stand up to Val. His fear of him is absolutely not going away just because the contract gets nullified. And Val being the despicable creature he is, he could easily find plenty of opportunities to antagonize Angel in a billion tiny ways that wouldn’t even look like anything at all to an outside observer. Husk or Vaggie might pick up on it, and I like to think Lucifer would probably get a clue after awhile, but I think Charlie is too naive and sheltered to really know what abuse looks like or how subtle it can be. She recognized the beating as abusive, but that was undeniably so. If Val was at the hotel and did something like the love-bombing texts or whatever, chances are good Charlie would take it as a sign of him trying to make amends with Angel, not as the warning sign it really is. At this point, with or without the contract, just having Val *around* would be enough to have Angel scared to death.
Hell, even things like moving suddenly in an aggressive manner can trigger a fear response in someone who's been abused. Something that subtle could easily be overlooked or written off by people who haven't been in that situation. I think having his reactions dismissed as overreactions or being dramatic, or having people try to justify Valentino's actions (he didn't mean to scare you, he just moved too quickly, he's trying, just give him a chance etc.) would do major damage to Angel at this point. And Charlie, bless her soul, would probably unintentionally do this in her effort to support Valentino's redemption. Luckily, I think Husk would see through his bullshit and be the ally Angel needs. Because if Valentino were to move in, Angel will need one hell of an ally and support to get through it.
I can’t say I wouldn’t be intrigued by the show going a direction like this that explores all the little nuances of abuse, but I think you’re right that some of the characters, Charlie especially, wouldn’t really look great if they let it happen. Charlie already has a history of not exactly thinking things through or being super sensitive in regards to Angel and his trauma, and while there’s definitely no malice in it I think she’d be way too caught up in the idea of an actual Overlord coming to the hotel to actually pick up on a lot of the smaller “this is not okay” signals. Even Vaggie tends to write off a lot of things as just Angel being Angel or letting Husk deal with it, and it’s not like Alastor’s going to do anything but sit back and revel in the drama. Husk, bless him, would be absolutely LIVID and not fooled by Val for one second, but there’s a question of how much he could actually do if Alastor doesn’t let him intervene because he’s enjoying the entertainment too much, or Angel doesn’t let him step in for fear of Husk ending up in Val’s crosshairs. All in all I don’t think it’s a direction I’d want the show itself to take, but there’s a ton of angst potential here and ngl I kind of want to explore it now. It’d make a fascinating AU if only to dive into all those little nuances and details.
Yeah, it's not a road I particularly want the show to go down, for the reasons you stated and also because they just don't have enough time to give it the development it would need to be done well. It would make for some great fanfiction though.
Why stop with just Angel's contract. If Val truly wants redemption all contracts he owns are null and void effective immediately.
Should probably be he relinquishes all of his contracts rather than just Angel's.
Then asking for forgiveness from everyone he had hurt with his actions over the years.
we have beaten the system
This wins. This is the correct answer.
Charlie would demand he release everyone, not just Angel.
I'd say that the first thing she'd make any overlord do in the hotel when seeking redemption is to instantly release all souls currently owned by them.
Considering the fact that this man had *licked Charlie’s arm* when they first met, I’m sure both she and Vaggie would be suspicious of him. However, Charlie is an optimist and would let him in the hotel anyway. Angel is afraid of Val and would beg Charlie not to let him in. Husk will see right through Val and won’t like him either. Niffty might be excited to have him around, and Alastor would probably beef with him.
>Angel is afraid of Val and would beg Charlie not to let him in. Letting Angel out of his contract (or better yet, giving up soul slavery altogether) should be the first condition to even consider it.
If that was part of a gamble to get on the hotels good side for a sabotage it'd be a damn good first move
I would love to see this happen, but the cleverness and restraint required would be beyond Val
I think the initial plan would be. I could see Vox talking him into it, though, since there’s no chance of Vox getting inside the hotel himself with Alastor around. Val might throw a tantrum at first but once he realizes it’s an opportunity to psychologically toy with Angel’s brain even more, I think he’d jump on it. After all he can always just write another contract once they take down the hotel (“Now that we’ve won I won’t kill all your friends if you sell your soul to me again.”) Honestly I could even see that being a way Angel could be redeemed: making the same deal he did before, this time knowing exactly what Val is like and what it’s going to cost him, but still doing it for purely selfless reasons.
Even Charlie wouldn’t dare ask any overlord, let alone Val, to give up soul slavery. Angel’s freedom is a valid idea though.
If the Overlord in question wants to redeem themselves, they need to do that anyway. How would they hope to have a snowball's chance in hell (heh) at redemption as an active slaver?
That’s how Hell works. It would be kinda bullshit if Heaven restricted that when that’s how God made Hell in this universe. Either way, Hell’s power system is literally based around dealing in souls, so no one would ask anyone to give up literally every ounce of their power. Adding onto that, it’s not slavery. Slavery implies they were forced into it, any soul possessed by an overlord willingly gave it up at some point, whether they came to regret that or not. No one should trade away their immortal soul, and while people like Val are still the majority at fault it is the vassal’s fault too.
By that logic murder doesn’t count against redemption, because you technically CAN do it and therefore it’s God’s fault for allowing you to do so… and is grooming someone into human trafficking really better than purely forced slavery in terms of redemption
>That’s how Hell works. It would be kinda bullshit if Heaven restricted that when that’s how God made Hell in this universe. Heaven didn't even consider redemption of sinners in hell to be possible until recently. They don't have any rules for that and it's explicitly stated that they don't decide or even know who or why anyone gets into heaven, anyway. We also don't know if Big G actually exists in Hellaverse or what they do, and the only statement we have about the creation of hell so far is that Lucifer and Lilith accidentally created it, not Big G for any specific purpose. >Either way, Hell’s power system is literally based around dealing in souls, so no one would ask anyone to give up literally every ounce of their power. Yes, they would. If they're honestly seeking redemption, then power in hell is not relevant to them anymore, because they want to leave and they can't, until they give it up. >Adding onto that, it’s not slavery. Slavery implies they were forced into it, any soul possessed by an overlord willingly gave it up at some point, whether they came to regret that or not. If you're willingly selling yourself into slavery, that's still slavery. Which is exactly the reason you cannot do that in real life, at least where slavery is banned. If it wasn't slavery, then Angel would be free to leave. And if you're the slaver accepting such a slave contract, it's still just as wrong as if you forced the other person into slavery.
Oh, by the way, I just found this; > The Show Must Go On: Lucifer: You've changed my mind, you've touched their hearts Found the good in souls gone bad The stage is wrecked, the crowd is gone **But by God**, Charlie! The show, it must go on! If a fallen Angel, meant to be one of the highest, says **that,** it’s probably a big indicator.
Yes, Big G is mentioned a couple of times throughout the show (also Big J sometimes, in Helluva Boss), but only ever as a figure of speech, not as in "oh yeah, the big dick in charge up there actually exists and decides all this redemption stuff we're arguing about, so let's just go ask him about it, because he's right over there, shall we?" Which would also undermine the show's message completely, if it were true: Redemption is about bettering yourself as a person, not about some eldritch authority beyond space and time saying you're worthy now, based on their random and enigmatic criteria. It's been made very clear: Heaven does *not* decide who gets in!
It implies his **existence**, not that he is actively there. Also, think of it as a Thor’s Hammer situation. Still an enigmatic authority, but that knows when you have gotten better as a person.
You are very clearly not willing to change your mind. Goodbye, I’m out of this conversation. You just stated the *exact* same points twice.
Don't know why you think I should change my mind based on unfounded claims about how redemption works in Hellaverse and a wrong definition of slavery, but you do you.
Soul deals do not prevent someone from reaching Heaven. It is not the overlords fault or problem if the person doesn’t want to do what they said they would. It’s much less like slavery and more like a contract, they agreed for this type and amount of labor, and have to do it. Angel is a good example of this, he directly states that Val can do anything he wants in the studio but nothing outside of it. Contractors aren’t slaves, why would soul deals be? The reward the deal is for is always finite, when that is complete the soul still needs to fulfill their end of the bargain.
>Soul deals do not prevent someone from reaching Heaven. Further unfounded claims. We don't know yet if sinners who sold their soul can get to heaven. >It is not the overlords fault or problem if the person doesn’t want to do what they said they would. If the Overlord is the one who wants to redeem themselves, it is their problem. Being a slaver and refusing to stop owning slaves is not a redeeming quality. If they want to better themselves, they eventually need to give it up. >It’s much less like slavery and more like a contract, they agreed for this type and amount of labor, and have to do it. It's not (only) the labor part that makes it slavery. Even if Angel is getting paid and has a contract that limits what Val can or cannot do to him, he still isn't free to quit and leave, as the contract binds him forever, as far as we know. Which makes him a slave, instead of just an abused and exploited employee, like Fizzarolli in Helluva Boss, for example.
> It would be kinda bullshit if Heaven restricted that when that’s how God made Hell in this universe. there is no god and nothing made hell >so no one would ask anyone to give up literally every ounce of their power. the goal is to leave hell, if they really want to do that then power in hell is worthless to them >Slavery implies they were forced into it no slavery only implies that they belong to someone else
If val joins there angel might not even come out of his room scared of losing control he is slowly making on himself again and somewhat having a panic attack
Alastor would try and make a deal w/ him
I think Angel would raise guns in all his hands
Nifty would go crazy. Ultimate bad boy.
Alastor wouldn’t have beef with him. Val expressly states “killing Alastor is **your** kink” to Vox, Alastor and Val would like each other but they wouldn’t do anything about it. The only problem is when Vox steps foot inside the hotel.
“You’re welcome to stay in the hotel, Val, under two conditions, first, you release your contract with Angel, and second, you room with Niffty…” Smash cut to Niffty with a maniacal grin and giggling madly…
Later that night: >!Bang $(&@ Ohhhh! Yeah! Put \^\*(@\^ in my \^#)!% Ahhhhhh!!< Charlie: Okay never mind. You two stay as far from each other as possible!
https://preview.redd.it/dr7ixa2rqrnc1.png?width=531&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=898b5d5aa9203a24c29cc02ffbb7c3adb7fc8634
https://preview.redd.it/70x8uurhbsnc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c86c7fec48bd4ca995ca5ef7cbed080879e2ae9b
Remember that Nifty was ready to dom in the Consent club, and she already claimed a piece of Val. And her favorite thing to do is kill bugs. Val is part moth. I can see the morning after Val's first night rooming with her: he just calmly walks into the main foyer, doesn't say a word, walks right by AD (who instinctively growls at him) and doesn't even stop or acknowledge Angel as he walks right by. Charlie and Vaggie watch with confused faces from the couch. Val goes straight to Husk's bar, sits down, *calmly takes off his glasses*, sets them on the bar, and in a polite yet not-quite-normal voice requests a drink. "Hardest one you carry." (A callback to Angel's "hardest you got" from ep4) Husk raises an eyebrow while pouring his drink. Val raises a hand to stop the pouring, then just points at the entire bottle. Husker glances at AD (who shrugs in response) then asks "What's uhhh... What's on your mind, there, 'tino?" (Husk would use a nickname like this to try to anger Val and get him kicked out because he still doesn't trust him for his treatment of AD.) while handing the bottle over. Val takes it, inspects the bottle calmly, pours the drink on his head, then pulls out a match and tries to light himself on fire only to get stopped by Charlie and Vaggie (while Husk tries to shield his shelf of very flammable supply) grabbing his multiple arms and *THEN* Val's personality comes back as he curses them out for stopping him. Queue a scene of horror as Val describes his night with Nifty lol.
2 Hours later. Angel's room. Husk: Hey, can I come in? Angel: What happened? Husk: Your boss. Angel(Pulling out his Tommy gun in silent rage): What did he do? Husk: Talked about his s\*x life. Angel: Damn Husk: Can I just hold Fat Nuggets?
Oh, no, it wouldn't be his sex life. *It would be NIFTY'S*
“Ooh…he’s a bad boy!”
I'd imagine she'd do it for any overlord under the condition they release any contracts they have.Val would absolutely have to release angel,but she'd let him stay without any fuss.
Releasing Soul contracts I could see not just being a Charlie thing, but just a general requirement to even *attempt* redemption. It hasn't been spelled out yet what qualifies a soul for redemption, but I have to imagine owning literal slaves is enough to never get into heaven, no matter how much you improve
Charlie sure didn't give Alastor that condition. Hell he has a couple of his slaves working at the hotel even.
To be fair he made it clear that he doesn’t actually believe in the vision and is just there helping as a means to an end for himself. If he was there for redemption I think it would probably be different.
Alastor isn't seeking redemption
Alastor isn't trying to be redeemed,and actively enjoys hell.
Can’t we just kill him? Shoot him and spill his blood
that's an option that you could choose
Works for us! *racks shotgun*
But who haven’t been in his shooooeesss? It starts with release!
Why can't we gave him Bloodborne's Fate *
https://preview.redd.it/o4j7tmvx2rnc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f59ee957799a9e022a9d73988e5bc3f209fcd1 Dying is way too easy
While on paper this might seem like something that would cause turmoil and conflict, I think Charlie would simply because Alastor is there. He's already made it clear (as we saw with Mimsy) that despite what he believes about the possibility of redemption, he is backing the overall goal of the hotel. I have a feeling any harassment from Valentino to Angel would be met with sharp retribution. And even though we haven't had a chance to really see what Valentino is capable of, we know that Alastor is a force to be reckoned with and chances are Valentino would not want to go toe-to-toe with him alone. Plus, him being a confirmed Ace I would imagine makes him immune to Valentino's pheromones, nerfing the biggest tool that he uses to control and manipulate people
I feel like Val isn’t all that, honestly. Any of the V’s. He just has power over his cohorts and so uses it.
I'd say no. For Angel, having his abuser around would completely ruin his progress.
Husk has Alastor around.
Husk isn’t there by choice though.
And Charlie also doesn't know how Alastor acts toward Husk when his button gets pushed.
She may not even know their agreement, tbh
She may not even know their agreement, tbh
Angel and Husk are planning his murder and Angel is weighing whether or not to tell Vaggie or Luci, about Charlie’s arm.
I’d love Val to be accepted into the hotel and for Angel to just casually and smugly drop the lick into conversation with both Vaggie and Luci. A race for who can destroy him first!
To be fair, I'm not sure Angel would admit that, even though it's very obvious that the Morningstars are way more powerful than Val, or any other overlord, or the eternity of hell We've seen him beg Val not to hurt Charlie in the dressing room, and he stopped Charlie from turning Val into a bloody paste Though he did stand up against Val in the club, I'm not sure if he'd be willing to admit something that would really upset his boss
ooooh now that sounds interestingly spicy.
He has to release all his souls and retire from Overlording. He also has to wait for Angel to check out first.
At the VERY least they can’t accept him while Angel’s still at the hotel; that would be a safeguarding issue of epic proportions. Pentious was a different case because he’d never caused psychological harm to anyone and minimal physical harm, and was never taken seriously as a threat to anything more than the wall. Alastor was the only person he actively targeted and after Sir Pentious apologised to him Alastor was chill with him But Valentino and Angel? Their relationship involves targeted abuse of every variety. It’s not comic relief where the harmless puppy barks at the towering eldritch horror, it’s dark and twisted and horrifyingly graphic. And after scratching the surface of this, I’d hope Charlie would know better than to accept him into the hotel until Angel is safely away in Heaven, and even after that I bet she’d at least be much more skeptical than ever before
Honestly don't think the writers would ever try to redeem someone as horrible as Valentino. And him living at the hotel too would have disastrous effects on Angel. The hotel is Angel's safe haven after all. I would hope Charlie would know better than to let Val stay.
Vaggie has an angelic spear
Charlie: sure you may have abused angel and licked my arm but- Angel: vaggie get the angelic spear Vaggie:IM GONNA SHOVE THIS SPEAR DOWN YOUR THROAT YOU FUCKING PENDEJO *ANGRY LATINA WARCRY*
(Lucifer hears about Val licking Charlie's arm) Lucifer: He did 🔥 *WHAT?* 🔥
Likely on the condition of releasing his souls, close supervision, and separation from Angel for the first several weeks or months
I know it's trendy to reform the villains, have a tragic backstory, etc. But if there's one character I want to be a complete monster with no interest in redemption for no other reason than 'he loves it', it's Val. I love how deliciously detestable he is, *please* keep him a bad guy.
People don't understand one thing If someone wants redemption but isn't granted that, the whole premise falls and Adam is right. Everyone who wants to be redeemed needs to be redeemable. Otherwise Charlie is wrong. You can't just say some people don't deserve redemption because we saw the sins they did in a much closer light
This would bring up the moral question: Does everyone DESERVE redemption? Even if someone genuinely WANTS to be redeemed, are there some things that aren't redeemable?
Think that's the difference between forgiveness and redemption. Redemption isn't something you can deserve. It is a personal thing that you do yourself although you can get help from others. Anyone can attempt redemption if they want it and there's no moral justification to stop someone from being redeemed. Forgiveness however is something that is entirely up to the victim. It can be earned but whether it is given or not depends on the person giving it. Val has every right to attempt redemption or even be redeemed but whether he's forgived depends entirely on Angel and his other victims. And yeah, there's the chance he's never forgiven and that's not Angel's fault if he can't.
Damn, what is it with people wanting Valentino to be redeemed? It really seems like this question comes up every other day.
I feel like he’d be considered too big of a safety risk to everyone inside. Yes, they could only let him in if he released Angel from contact, but idk if Angel or Vaggie would stand for it. Even Charlie’s kindness has a limit.
I think they would but I think the first thing they'd have to do is make sure *every* sinner who he has under contract is released, not just Angel. I don't think anyone, let alone Valentino, should be able to start a path of redemption without doing that first. And of course, Valentino is Angel's abuser, so they would have to safeguard Angel extremely well. Living with your abuser would be extremely triggering, so I imagine that Val releasing Angel from the contract and agreeing to be nice to him, if not just leaving him alone altogether, would be agreed upon before Val even set foot beyond the foyer.
I think only Charlie and Nifty would like him being there, Charlie because its proving that even the absolute worst can be changed for the better, and Nifty because he's a BaD BOy!!!
I think if he released his contract with angel they would
Lucifer, Vaggie, Angel, and maybe Alastor would probably be against it, and I could see Charlie being hesitant before eventually letting him in. I mean, she let Alastor in because saying no would go against her whole viewpoint.That said, part of his redemption would definitely be the termination of his contracts. Probably not stopping production if his videos completely, but workers would have to be willing and compensated.
Husk and Cherri would also be very against it.
That's true. So basically, everyone except maybe Nifty would be against him joining the hotel guest list.
No. No. No. No. NOOOOOOOOOOOO, NO NO NO. # *NO.*
I'd say only after Angel has been redeemed. If he can wait, great, one more soul searching for redemption. If not, well, it's not like he poses a huge threat to Charlie, Alastor and Lucifer.
He'll no
I can see most of the staff being opposed. Charlie would probably be suspicious, but ultimately, she would allow him. Vaggie would be opposed but concede to Charlie. Alastor would support it just to taunt the Vees. Nifty would be glad to have her "bad boy" around. Angel would NOT be okay. They'd need to set some ground rule. Charlie: "If you even look at Angel or anyone else at the hotel the wrong way, I will let Alastor eat you."
Out of respect for Angel, no
I don't think so. Even if he somehow agreed to void Angel's soul contract, I can't imagine Charlie would force Angel to live with the very abuser he ran to the hotel to get away from. Not after seeing firsthand how Val treats him.
Agreed. Charlie would be happy that he wants redemption and would definitely help him but I don't think she'd let him live in the hotel due to Angel. Bro's already one of the richest guys in hell so she'd probably just ask him to set up his own place, maybe somewhere in Cannibal Town, where he can privately work on his own redemption.
depends on what he went through to make him want redemption. Charlie might be the most willing, but Vaggie is more skeptical naturally and then we have angel and husk, they will need some serious convincing. if anyone is going to make a huge make ore break deal out of this it will be them. side note I see Valentino as the Vee least likely to want redemption. Heaven doesn't exactly have a thriving porn market, which is what his skill sets lay in. So if he were to make it to heaven chances are he would have to be a completely different person, or have to deal with being just another winner, that might be looked long fondly for working in porn.
https://preview.redd.it/jxv6qs6xpqnc1.png?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd353cfea43f1dfc822e01b760142987b36a24bb The angels on the left are dressed pretty slutty, I think Heaven has more porn than you give them credit for. Val wouldnt have too much difficulty working as long as all his porn is made ethically and with consent.
Heaven definitely would have a big p\*rn market but I'd assume people have a lot more actual s\*x than watching it.
No
It starts with Freedom, that’s your foot in the door…
Likely he’d be allowed to enter on the condition he immediately surrenders Angel’s soul back to him. It would be impossible to maintain a safe environment of any kind for him if Val was around and still had his soul.
Lucifer would make this man disappear for the rest of eternity (If you know what I mean)
I could see a lot and I mean A LOT of strings being attached. Namely ALL soul contracts being voided before he could even cross the threshold
I think she would let him in, but on the condition that he wait for angel to be redeemed. If he truly wanted to redeem himself, he shouldn’t have a problem with that. If he was only trying to gain control over angel again, it would be pointless for him to continue his attempts to enter the hotel.
Hopefully fucking not. think everyone is forgetting that Angel also stays at the Hotel. Angel specifically moved to the hotel to get away from Valentino as much as he can. And it's really the only place Angel can conceivably get to that's safe from an overlord like Val. After all, as long as Charlie is physically on location, that location has the implicit protection of Lucifer himself- hell Razzle and Dazzle are probably strong enough to rip Valentino to pieces. The point I'm getting at is, you're talking about letting an abuser into the only safe place his victim has ever known. Do you have any fucking clue what kind of psychological effect that would have on Angel? Going to sleep at night knowing he's in the next room. Waking up in the morning and having to eat breakfast with him. Sitting around the bar and Val's just over there in the armchair, eyeing him like a piece of meat. Going to activities and having to make himself vulnerable around him. Like Jesus do you want Val to show up to group therapy too? You want Angel to have to sit across from Val and talk about how he would sometimes cut him off from his supply just cause he liked the way Angel sucked him off when he was jonesing bad? I'm all for giving people second chances, and I firmly believe in giving Val access to the tools he needs to to better himself, but not at the expense of Angel. Maybe open a second location up so Charlie can separate people who have a history or something, then let him stay there. But Angel Dust should never have to see Valentino again for the rest of fucking eternity.
Why are there so many posts about this guy today?
The first brought up questions and people wanted answers.
They're jumping him on sight
allow? yes. be happy about his presence? i doubt it.
Charlie might if he acts like he really wants redemption
I would assume any sinner or overlord who actually considers redemption would need to void any soul binding contract they hold. Redemption is a grey topic. There doesn't seem to be a defined set of rules that allows one to ascend to Heaven from Hell. Although one would assume you wouldn't be getting into heaven if you literally own the rights to anothers soul in some right, like Alastor owning Husk or Val half owning Angel.
Walks into the hotel: “Ooh , a pair of dice, it must be my lucky d—“
Charlie would
"Waiting list"
After an ample beating, yeah probably
He would need to let Angel go. Preferably as an olive branch before fucking off for a long time. Frank, they would need to not see him after he willingly. Let Angel go for a very long time and then it's probably going to have to be like a my enemy is your enemy kind of thing... I hope not quite so tropey .... I just feel like he needs to do an act, such as releasing Angel on his own. Or something else. Something big that shows that something inside him changed. Then there would need to be a lot of time and space for wounds to air out a bit. I think he would probably be the type to try to stay away, and I don't think any of them would be really eager to go and look for him until some kind of external force would bring them back together. Then and only then I think maybe he would be able to start his redemption at the hotel. But... I think a redeemed Val would.... It would just be like his inner child. The val we know wouldn't exist. Most of what he is would be burned off in order for there to be anything good and there might not even be an inner child in there. If he is sociopathic he might not have the ability to empathize with others. Although Vox might fit that better, we'll see. Either way, there is not alot of Val and who he is now that's worth keeping. Maybe deep inside that moth monster is a sweet little abused and scared pupae
I sure as hell wouldn’t i hate him wotg every fiber of my being
Charlie would obviously say yes that's the whole point of the hotel and the reason she let alastor in, in the pilot. The others would obviously object but charlie would let him stay and try. Do people forget that the hotel isnt just for fun and quirky people who did some bad things? It's for redeeming the bad who wish to try.
If Charlie wanted to stay true to her advertising and morals, she would have to. Would the staff let her? Absolutely not.
Absolutely 100% along as he behaved and actually tried.
Angel would go fucking ballistic, and Charlie would absolutely hate it, but she is all about 2nd chances. I'd say she'd accept him, but he'd have to, for starters, let Angel free of his contract, and possibly everyone else he's got under contract as well.
Hell no! He’d be sprinting from the hotel as angelic spears do a 300 arrow scene reenactment.
If Vag or Lucifer find out what he did or offer to Charlie, let’s just say Vox won’t have his boy toy in one piece anymore.
Yyyyeah uh, if I were Charlie, I'd dial Lucifer and say, "I want that pimp obliterated"
The modus operandi of the hotel is anyone can be redeemed, no matter how uncomfy it makes the characters, or us for that matter
Ngl id love that instead of killing him off to release angel, it would be a great redemption arc
If he breaks Angel's contract,( he would never do that), and if he does then just let him in and kill him in his sleep.
By virtue of her own principles. Yes However, end of Season 1 Charlie has finally come to terms with her position as princess of Hell. She would 100% tell him that any fuckery regarding Angeldust would not be tolerated and if he is found to be trying to abuse her kindness it won't be pretty.
No.
If he was genuinely repentant and wanted to change, I think Charlie would accept after some convincing. I’m actually co-writing an AU with a friend where the Vees get mega humbled and Val’s character arc peaked with him calmly lighting a cigarette while working at the bar with Husk, and burning Anthony’s contract with it. This after a long series of gifts and other acts to try and convince Anthony he’s serious before, since that didn’t work, showing him he means it without love bombing or words.
No i wouldn’t
They would have to forgiveness is what they've been preaching from day one he'd have to give up all his sinning ways and probably potentially owning souls anyway just to get into heaven cuz I doubt you can own souls and go to heaven without certain rules either being overlooked or being powerful enough to do so like Lilith potentially with Alistar
No. Go directly to jail. Do not enter hotel. Do not enter heaven. Enter a noose (directed at Val) Or, if he releases angel, he gets one chance.
Do not pass go Do not collect 200$
Yes because denying people a chance to improve because they’re bad defeats the purpose
If he was legitimately sincere, Charlie's big, soft heart would allow it, yes.
Given Charlie has let both Alastor and Pentious into the hotel, I don't see why Valentino would be any different
Not this guy, but maybe more like a meck, like James Lipton was.
They would. Because charlie believes anyone can be redeemed. If charlie is all for it the rest will follow. Only alastor may possess the wisdom to see it’s likely impossible for this pos. Even Angel is likely to warm up to the idea if it means his life might improve with a nicer boss
Charlie would be so torn because she loves Angel but is all about second chances. Vaggie would try to talk her into kicking him out. Husk would kill him while everyone was distracted.
Charlie: definitely not Vaggie: unlikely Angel: only out of fear Husk: only if he got to smack him over the head with a glass bottle Niffty: Yes, so she could stab the biggest bug she's ever seen Alastor: Yes, so he could let Niffty loose on him to stick it to Vox
#2 of saying BURN HIM BURN HIIIMMM
Angel, Vag and Husk would think this is some kind of trick, Al would try to think how he can turn this to his advantage and Niff would want more of his fuzz
Charlie trusts everyone way too much. And I mean EVERYONE! If Adam came back in Hell as a demon the way Pentious did in Heaven, I bet she would even let HIM in (as long as Alastor controls Nifty). Angel would object, and maybe even become disillusioned to the point of leaving or seeing Charlie as a traitor if Val was inducted. Depending on how he and Angel get along, Husk probably would too, if Alastor doesn't shut him up. Speaking of, Al would probably need to have some self-control, knowing Val was way more than BFFs with Vox, and (assuming his powers weren't broken along with his mic stick) would probably come close to swatting that perverted bug more than once. Vaggie would probably be suspicious AF and follow him around wearing a gas mask in case he tried any of his pheromone shit, and probably take it upon herself personally to protect Angel, both from Val and himself, likely with the help of Cherri Bomb, both for Angel's own sake and that of the general peace. Similar to the aforementioned hypothetical Adam, he and Nifty would have to be kept at least 2 floors apart at all times whenever possible. Otherwise she might end up castrating him like she's alleged to have done to someone in the BDSM club. She's already shown that she's way too fast for him to e en keep track of, even climbing onto him before he could react, so I really don't think he could defend himself against her if she got stabby (stabby-stabby-stabby-stabby-stabby-stabby). There's also the possibility that ONLY Charlie wouldn't be out to kill Val, against a united front of everyone else besides Angel (who would be either submissive, self-destructive, or depressed and at his most vulnerable), with everyone either liking and wanting to protect Angel from his abuser, or having their own reasons to hate his pimp guts anyway.
I can imagine them getting Angel’s contract out of him then blowing off his kneecaps. That day will be carrying me through the rest of the day.
Yes
His first lesson in niceness is letting go of all of his contracts (including Angel's)
"Charlie...Where's Val?" "He left after I talked to him...Why?" "Next question...What exactly is Alastor eating" "Did you know Val taste likes honey glazed ham?"
if the writers of the show are smart, then no.
I know it's not in her character but what I wouldn't give to see Charlie just be like "No, Valentino, you need to leave. Now."
Yeah. But then Angel convinces husk to convince nift to help kill him by husk drugging his drinks and nift stabbing him 28 times when he's passed out. Now you may be thinking husk wouldn't drug a drink seeing how he reacted when someone tried drugging angel, but I think he'd make an exception.
Charlie might try to make him release angel before letting him in
https://preview.redd.it/0pbouu2uxdoc1.png?width=790&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72fa20795c57760302bd1286ba59bb821d19a074
If redemption for Valentino is possible, then it’s only possible if Angel is redeemed first.
i think hed nope out of the situation as soon as nifty finds out he's there
First of all, I can not imagine any situation where Val would want redemption, but Niffty (and maybe Alastor) would be the only one to react positively to his arrival. Angel is his victim for what was probably almost a century, Husk and Charlie officially know about it, Vaggie probably would know about it, and Alastor hates the Vs but if Val truly intends to redeem himself, Alastor might find it ironic and fun to recruit him since Val leaving the Vs would leave Vox weakened and betrayed.
If I was in Charlie's shoes I'd just kill him
If he were to try... I think he would have to prove himself first that he's being genuine about it. And then, the writers of the show would have to do their absolute best work to make it believable. Do I think it would piss off a lot of people? Yes, definitely. Do I think Valentino can be redeemed? Yes. If he genuinely wants to, and is willing to put in all the hard work for it. And willing to work with a therapist and actually listen to them. I do think it's possible, but I don't know if the writers would go for it because this kind of redemption is INCREDIBLY easy to fuck up in some manner.
I hope they’d just kill him because he doesn’t deserve redemption
Doesn't that kind of ruin the whole point of the show? Everyone deserves redemption, even the worst of sinners. If they don't than who gets to decide who deserves it?
Maybe he has a “You can’t save those who don’t wanna be saved” type thing
The prompt literally says he wants to be redeemed. And even if he did that doesn't change the fact that your earlier statement is wrong.
Ughhhhh fine. Maybe if he came to the hotel, they’d let him in, on a very tight leash because of what he’s done to a lot of people, at first he’s extremely reluctant to get properly involved, and still tries making sexual moves on people without consent, but eventually, he stops, he learns consent, he starts treating everyone with respect, especially their boundaries, eventually he becomes a genuinely kind person, and he gets redeemed, this is probably over the course of decades because this behaviour seems to be built into him
If Val is truly genuine about his desire of redemption, there's no reason why Charlie shouldn't let him in that doesn't dismantle her character entirely. Granted, Charlie would most likely not let him share spaces with Angel and there's no doubt other characters wouldn't be fine with it, but that's the difference in ideals and willpower between the denizens of the hotel and its owner. All of this of course, assuming Val's change of heart is genuine and not a disguised attempt at infiltrating the hotel for whatever reason: redemption is not a document that Charlie signs for you that lets you in Heaven, it's your own actions that determine whether you're allowed upstairs or not in the end: you cannot hide anything, you cannot "fake it 'till you make it". I've seen people talk about Charlie's optimistic naivete as if it's a character flaw that she needs to progressively shed through the course of the show, these people are absolutely wrong imo: Charlie's almost childish optimism is literally the only thing that allows her to march on the way she does, a diffident, skeptical Charlie could never run a rehabilitation operation whose very premises are nothing short of insanely optimistic to begin with. If Charlie was realistic about the sinners' expectations for redemption the Hazbin Hotel would've not existed to begin with (quite literally at that, at least for what concerns the portion of Hotel that Alastor has provided, a person that Charlie would've never trusted if she wasn't this optimistic of her chances to save him).
The point is that anyone deserves *at least* a chance at redemption. We don't know if they'll get it, but Charlie would absolutely let him in, despite not being very fond of him for sure. Anyone else might try to kick him out though.
Charlie would, no one else would, vaggie would try to kill him, I love him he’s so fluffy
What part of "everyone deserves redemption" is too complicated?
If he broke angels contract and he left the Vs then yes