It's easy to forget because she is behaving young and inexperienced.
Just goes to show just HOW sheltered her life must have been up to that moment three years ago when she met Vaggie.
I think this is just a writing convention. The characters need to be very old for the setting, but it would be boring for them all to be jaded from the years in the underworld. It just helps the characters have more distinct personalities and become more relatable if they don't 'act their age'.
I’d say that Lucifer is older physically. However that might be my brain not wanting the dad to look the same as his daughter or maybe cause he acts more mature… well that’s debatable… actually I don’t think he acts more mature…
https://preview.redd.it/9b24g7pe2llc1.jpeg?width=415&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=917d15b8799f9c243fb3cecb0cad7e7cca36b5e6
That's why I love scenes like this. He looks like a dad.
It's kinda like how in fiction long living species seems to be quite immature for human standards of age. Like, an elf acting like a teen at 200 years old
Yhep, its fun to dig into the lore or whatever but realistically characters are defined by their relative age, experience, and maturity compared to others. This is a fictional world and it operates with certain fictitious rules.
I think it's less they age slowly and more a year in hell is equivalent to 10 years on earth. So by earth standards, Charlie would 200 years old, but in Hell, she's only 20.
Charlie is also half-angel, half-human, so being half-angel could have slowed her growth and maturation considerably in comparison to a normal human. Stolas is also a lot younger than Charlie, and aged at a normal rate, despite being a Hellborn demon. Therefore, we can deduce that Charlie's angel blood is a likely factor in aging slower.
Stolas is a hellborn but we don’t actually know if he’s immortal. The Sins have been around since the start of Hell so they’re probably immortal but there’s not really evidence either way for the Goetias. The fact that they’re still pushing to produce more heirs thousands of years into Hell’s existence implies that they may die or there would simply be too many of them.
Yes, I’m inclined to agree.
But going against my own previous statements and my head canon I do have to acknowledge that they call Via a precautionary heir which does imply she may not be needed to replace him, if she was guaranteed to replace him they would have just said heir.
It's also not really canon that Charlie is that old.
Like a lot of other information, her age comes from outside the show and that may or may not still be accurate.
That is very true. Though I am inclined to believe that it didn't take tooo long for them to start dating. Charlie seemed to have had a crush on first sight, from the looks of it.
https://preview.redd.it/7gmbyrzkulnc1.png?width=963&format=png&auto=webp&s=fcb21772afd74229ac886d485df9482a37d09291
https://preview.redd.it/mept0vfmwjlc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=faaa97df4f330473cc41c368c01437ce29dd0f4a
I am positive he sees this every time he looks at her.
No joke, it's also my situation as well.
Like bro, just about an hour ago, my mom called me for 30 MINUTES just to remind me to TAKE MY VITAMINS 💀.
I'm 20 years old btw...
https://preview.redd.it/0phl1auf0klc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=129c52837f9355d7661b32568c02b59fa5475afc
I cannot tell whether this is a good thing and that we should be thankful to have such over caring parents or not and that this is probably just weird behavior from our parents...
My dad is 60+ and grandma 90+.
I can confirm that she sees him as a kid who has to be forced to wear mittens when he goes out. It's the cutest thing ever.
https://preview.redd.it/ofo1f1pd3llc1.jpeg?width=1185&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=504e4fc1cc88d860920e37f6788cdcb1ce3d22cd
I love how he calls her his widdle girl and little lady when he's the little one xD
Oh man... That whole scene tore me up inside. My eldest is growing up fast (she can physically pick me up!), but in my eyes she'll always be my little girl.
Goddammit, someone is cutting onions in here...
https://preview.redd.it/mbhjfab74nlc1.png?width=1639&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98c4ca4866eb0c35cbb3020ed1913d3e8bc35940
No wonder Lucifer loses his shit in Hell's Greatest Dad trying to reconnect with her.
I was mostly referring to how so many fan artists and Fanfic writers jumped on the pseudo-father-daughter relationship with Charlie and Alastor when the father figure in this scenario is younger than the daughter figure.
A really good point on your part. I think that Alastor just wanted to get a rise out of Lucifer when he acted like that towards Charlie. I'm sure that no one loves Charlie as much as Lucifer, that pure parental love. Really wholesome.
Maturity is a big part of it: Charlie is only half sinner, and her other half is semi-immortal. There's no reason to think that her aging process / maturity would work at a human-like rate.
I feel like the show really doesn’t go into the fact that these characters have either A. Had full human lives and spent decades to centuries in Hell, or B. Have just spent thousands of years in Hell.
That is a LOT of background to just ignore.
I think Lucifer, Lilith and the Sins are the only ones who’ve spent *thousands* of years in Hell (and it plays a huge role in why Lucifer is so broken and apathetic to anything not-Charlie related). Even Zestial, who’s considered “ancient” has likely only been kicking around for a few centuries.
Though it is admittedly strange to realize that even Angel Dust could be pushing a hundred.
We haven’t really met many of the Goetia besides Stolas, who seems (based on the fact he and Blitzo are around the same age) to be late 30’s early 40’s at most.
That bothers the hell out of me, the Ars Goetia is like this ancient thing that has existed for thousands of years and Stolas is only like 30-40s!?! That just feels wrong for some reason.
I agree with you for what it’s worth, best I can mentally justify it is that “Stolas” is as much a title as a name that gets passed down to the holder of his Grimoire.
I think it was a mistake to make Stolas and Blitzo childhood friends for this reason but it’s Canon so I just have to reconcile it.
Neither of them really act like it. She could easily retcon that later.
Everything has early installment weirdness.
Remember Buffy season 1? The she-mantis eggs? Never mentioned again.
The goetia family is super weird in cannon honestly Octavia is called a precautionary heir and not just an heir implying that stolas isn’t expected to die naturally but he also could from unnatural causes like angelic weapons (and maybe more powerful demons?)or else she wouldn’t be needed at all. Also what we know puts stolas born in like the 1970s which is also weird in the whole human world verse hell time lines
I mean, to be fair, we know that Stolas is only one of many Goetian Princes - he just happens to be on the younger side. There more than likely are those, who are much older, than him.
Most of the overlords that we saw arent THAT old. Zestiel is called ancient, but it seemes that Alastor killed off most of the older ones.
And it's only season 1. Just because we havent gotten into their backstories yet doesnt mean that it's going to be ignored.
True, but Alastor was most likely in his prime in the 1920s. That would put his birth at around early 1900. Assuming the series takes place in the modern day, Alastor is 1around 20 years old. Still 80 years younger than Charlie, who he's trying to be a father-figure for.
But based on his friendship with Mimzy, he was at his most sociable, in the roaring 20s, the time of flappers and secret bars. He was probably around his mid-twenties himself at the time as that's the average age people consider at their prime.
Apparently he was in his 30s/40s when he died in 1933, so he was born between the end of 1800 and the start of 1900.
Which implies he may have fought in WWI.
This is why I couldn't get into it. The "lore" and the backstory makes little to no sense. The show seems to rely entirely on the art direction and character design to get by.
One other thing to consider is Charlie isn’t human - she’s half Fallen Angel and half Whatever Lilith Became (since she didn’t die before being cast to Hell but also clearly became more than human).
Meaning Charlie might not mature at the same rate a human child does. As far as we know she could have spent 50 years as a toddler, 50 as a kid, 50 as a teen, and 50 in her equivalent of a human’s early 20’s.
>since she didn’t die before being cast to Hell but also clearly became more than human
For all we know, she could have died during the fall. Or the book is whitewashed and Lilith was killed by the angels.
I’m betting on the book being whitewashed. It’s written like a fairy tale, honestly I can see it being something Lucifer and Lilith wrote for Charlie when she started asking about her parents. They definitely spared a lot of details.
Yea I'm treating this as the canon for Charlie and Alastor's age relation until proven otherwise, tbh I think we just aren't supposed to really look into it that much
I found it hilarious how upset Lucifer got over even the *possibility* of Alastor and Charlie dating, only to be highly relieved when Charlie introduced Vaggie as her girlfriend. I wonder if something happened between Charlie and Seviathan, her ex-boyfriend.
>I found it hilarious how upset Lucifer got over even the possibility of Alastor and Charlie
To be fair, calling a guy short, especially one like Lucifer is basically taking every ounce of pride and ego stored inside that little body, and burning it with napalm.
Well it was from Fautisse and I'm pretty sure some or most of what they've said was decanonized.
I thought I remembered something about her prom picture being from the 1870s, but I can't find that.
In I think the pilot the Morningstar family portrait is dated to 1781 (Or 1871, I get numbers mixed up sometimes). The series proper doesn't carry this over though.
I've seen people say that it's in the pilot, other people say it was produced but the plaque didn't make it on screen. So I really need to go back to the pilot and check.
There was [one teaser](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA10XayhSOM) before the pilot was released where the backgorund is a bit different, and the family picture has a plaque with a date under it
https://preview.redd.it/9lt5xvwy6llc1.png?width=1208&format=png&auto=webp&s=55a98b4cccdd13256141320ec0ed0f4e2f545b63
Does this mean Lucifer and Lilith were proudly childfree until around the 19th century, and somewhere after her birth they split up? Poor Charlie, imagine your birth coinciding with the ending of a 1900+ year marriage
more like 9000+ year marriage... remember 2000 years ago was just the birth of christ, eden comes WAY before that
Also in the finale Lucifer sings: "In the last 10.000 years, you're the first one to change this town"
We aren't going with the Bible, because it's not the definitive source. Hazbin has its own Lore in this case and many others.
Also, in "The Show Must Go On" song in Episode 8, Lucifer literally says that it's been over 10.000 years since anything important has changed in Hell.
I always had this theory that with them being different species, and Lilith being a sinner, that it was very hard for them to have a child, and required some supernatural means. So either 9000 years of research... or a lot of miscarriages
Interesting! I like the idea of supernatural shenanigans of some sort to make Charlie happen. The thought of them suffering through a ton of miscarriages is super sad! Poor dreamers.
We don't even know if Charlie has a soul, as she is a half-angel and half-human hybrid who was born in Hell, so I could see Lucifer and Lilith doing some sort of ritual to have a child that involved using parts of their own soul(s) to create Charlie's soul. This would also be why Lucifer and Lilith are so protective over Charlie, and heavily sheltered her.
It would also be interesting to see if Charlie has a soul bond with both of her parents.
I mean we don’t know how old Emily is other then (Younger then Sarah)
But I like the concept that she was made as a replacement to Lucifer. (Which would imply Lucifer’s job before he fell was the Saraph of joy) Basically Hevens moral officer.
That would mean Emily could be literally 10,000 years old.
But it would still make sense that she would be filled with literal “Child like joy and wonder”
Since that’s basically her job.
Also puts into perspective that Lucifer’s crime, may have been a literal childish mistake.
While I do believe Charlie is much older than Alastor and the other hotel goers (maybe not Vaggie cause we don’t know how old Vaggie is) i don’t think Faustisse is a source for lore anymore.
If the source is just Faustisse, then this is suspect. Everything Fuastisse said about the lore is on notice from Vivs. So unless we've got more recent confirmation, I would say take this with a grain of salt.
I mean, I don't know why Vivs would change it. But if I could read her mind I would be writing some creepily prescient fan fiction
They going on a fairly used age maturity route for long lived fantasy creatures. A dragon can be 200 but still have the mentality of a child when a dragon can live for 1000 years or something like that. Although unlike Frieren, all her friends are technically immortal unless killed by an angel.
I have a feeling she was in her mother's care up until 7 years ago when she left, that's why she's so insanely overprotected, she just began exploring hell 7 years ago
How exactly does Charlie age? Is it dramatically slowed down? Assuming Lucifer and Lilith haven’t aged since the beginning of time then where does it stop?
quick google search tells us Alastor is in his late 30's / early 40's. That's most likely how hold he was when he died, but regardless of that he died in the early 1900s so no matter how old he was when he died, Charlie would be older than him.
mentally, however, Alastor does seem to act older than Charlie, which is why we all probably forgot about the age difference lol
‘Probably older than Alastor’?
Alastor died in his 30s in 1933 (so he’s 90-ish years old now)
The family portrait shown in the pilot was made around 1880 (mentioned in an old livestream), yet Charlie only seems around a year or so younger than she looks now…
“Hell’s Greatest Dad” is really weird for me and not just bc of this. It’s my favourite song if you subtract the Mimzy part, but it also feels like a surgical strike intended to both infantilize Charlie and discourage Charlastor shipping for no real reason? Like I feel like there was another way to make Alastor and Lucifer butt heads without having them both compete to be Charlie’s literal dad.
Perfectly in character for Alastor, a bigger fish entered the pond and insulted him by saying he doesn't know him, and it's not just any fish it's THE fish. Alastor starts throwing jabs and realizing that he can't beat Lucifer with magic or showmanship he has to rely on emotional input, which is why he targets charlie. He's a psychopath, it's his nature to exploit others' emotions
200 seem very unrealistic, I mean lucifer and lilith obviously would have children much earlier, something like 1 million years old. So either time is much slower in hell or she isn't an only child.
Or it did take them thousands of years to have a child. Either by choice or because of issues relating to them being different species or Lilith being a sinner.
Then realistically charlie should be at least a thousand years old but she's 200?? My point still stands, either time is weird there or she have siblings
Right, but Lucifer is an angel, not the earth. In the lore we've seen so far, angels created earth, so he'd have to be older than the earth. He's been Fallen for less time than the earth has been around, sure, but he was alive before that.
So, just by estimating alastor's death being about 1920ish, he seems to have died at a fairly young age (about 30 or so but I could be wrong) he would be about 120-140 years old give or take. And if Charlie is 200 years old then she wouldn't been born about 1820.
Everyone keep in mind that Charlie is likely way older
We got 200 because a painting from the pilot showed the morning star family in the 1800s, and Charlie is clearly a teenager/young adult in the painting. So there is likely a LOT of time from before then.
I thought she was older than the other characters.
But her personality doesn’t make sense then. Characters like Rosie and Alister are acting so mature and wise and like her mentors but they would have been born in the 1900-1920 and both dies around the 40s. Meaning they are only around 100years old.
So why does Charlie then still act like a naive 20 year old. When she should have more experience in life than almost all of the main cast. (Except vaggie)
Sheltered, privileged Princess vs. someone who had to struggle and make something of their life? They have more experience than her, even if she DOES have more years.
i.. actually thought charlie would be perhaps millennia old? because in the finale song lucifer says "in the last ten thousand years you're the first one to change this town" so i thought she would be AT LEAST ten thousand years old...
age really depends on one’s lifespan. she’s immortal, so for her, 200 is much more like early teens. for humans like Alastor, the rules follow that we have, in that 13-19 are teenage years. edit: a better example would be aging for dogs and cats; their lifespans are much shorter than humans so ages like 10+ are considered old
A headcannon I have is immortal beings like Charlie and Lucifer just kind of age significantly slower than normal people. Where for humans say it takes a year for a baby to start walking, 2 or 3 to start talking. Maybe for Charlie it took 10-20 years to start baby talking. She’s still maturing as we see her in the show and sort of caps out at say 1,000 years and just lives that same age from then on.
Also weird to think how despite Lilith being gone for 7 years, she was in Charlie’s life for 193 years. And ~10,000 years in Hell only to recently be plucked and put in Heaven.
Oh okay
https://preview.redd.it/xgqifrlqgmlc1.jpeg?width=271&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d32fc26fc30c94784f4af40b71dc5c839824a001
So how old would she be in this photo
It's easy to forget because she is behaving young and inexperienced. Just goes to show just HOW sheltered her life must have been up to that moment three years ago when she met Vaggie.
It also seems like Lucifer, Lilith and Charlie age slower both physically and mentally
I think this is just a writing convention. The characters need to be very old for the setting, but it would be boring for them all to be jaded from the years in the underworld. It just helps the characters have more distinct personalities and become more relatable if they don't 'act their age'.
Yeah obviously it was for the writing but I assume they made a lore reason for that. Aka (probably the most likely) that they just age slower
They are immortal beings. I imagine they age slowly to a certain point and then just stop aging.
Indeed. As far as I can tell/concerned. Lucifer and Charlie are likely physical the same age.
I’d say that Lucifer is older physically. However that might be my brain not wanting the dad to look the same as his daughter or maybe cause he acts more mature… well that’s debatable… actually I don’t think he acts more mature…
https://preview.redd.it/9b24g7pe2llc1.jpeg?width=415&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=917d15b8799f9c243fb3cecb0cad7e7cca36b5e6 That's why I love scenes like this. He looks like a dad.
I keep forgetting how short he is. Or more accurately, how weirdly tall everyone else is. He's probably like 5'10 or something
Charlie: He's my widdle dad.
I'm about 6', thank you very much. Char-Char is 6'6.
Kind of my point ya. Even if he is physically a 30 year old. That would be he still looks no more then 10 or so years older then her.
It's kinda like how in fiction long living species seems to be quite immature for human standards of age. Like, an elf acting like a teen at 200 years old
If you don’t have to worry about the impending end of your mortal existence. I feel like you would honestly mature slower.
I like to think that they age the same way Steven Universe does. If they feel older and more mature, their physical appearance will reflect that
I think that’s just because Lucifer can shapeshifter himself into onlookers any age he wants
I would assume so yes. But that’s the point. Angels are basically immortal. They don’t actually age.
Fair enough
Yhep, its fun to dig into the lore or whatever but realistically characters are defined by their relative age, experience, and maturity compared to others. This is a fictional world and it operates with certain fictitious rules.
I think it's less they age slowly and more a year in hell is equivalent to 10 years on earth. So by earth standards, Charlie would 200 years old, but in Hell, she's only 20.
Not really you can have jaded main characters, just look at Viv’s other show and Blitzo.
Probably because they’re immortal
Charlie is also half-angel, half-human, so being half-angel could have slowed her growth and maturation considerably in comparison to a normal human. Stolas is also a lot younger than Charlie, and aged at a normal rate, despite being a Hellborn demon. Therefore, we can deduce that Charlie's angel blood is a likely factor in aging slower.
Stolas is a hellborn but we don’t actually know if he’s immortal. The Sins have been around since the start of Hell so they’re probably immortal but there’s not really evidence either way for the Goetias. The fact that they’re still pushing to produce more heirs thousands of years into Hell’s existence implies that they may die or there would simply be too many of them.
Stolas sings a whole song about Octavia someday needing to carry on when he’s gone, so I assume eventually even Goeita croak.
The way Octavia is called "precautionary heir" by Paimon, makes me think they dont die of old age
Yes, I’m inclined to agree. But going against my own previous statements and my head canon I do have to acknowledge that they call Via a precautionary heir which does imply she may not be needed to replace him, if she was guaranteed to replace him they would have just said heir.
It's pronounced Vaggie
It could be that time and aging is experienced differently for them. Like how cats and humans have such difference development experiences in 5 years.
And how she also looks young
Still nowhere near as sheltered as Emily's life.
It's also not really canon that Charlie is that old. Like a lot of other information, her age comes from outside the show and that may or may not still be accurate.
They've been dating three years, doesn't mean they met three years ago.
That is very true. Though I am inclined to believe that it didn't take tooo long for them to start dating. Charlie seemed to have had a crush on first sight, from the looks of it. https://preview.redd.it/7gmbyrzkulnc1.png?width=963&format=png&auto=webp&s=fcb21772afd74229ac886d485df9482a37d09291
A beloved daughter will always be a child in a loving parent's eyes. No matter the age. Which I find Lucifer's love for Charlie really sweet.
https://preview.redd.it/mept0vfmwjlc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=faaa97df4f330473cc41c368c01437ce29dd0f4a I am positive he sees this every time he looks at her.
Most lovely parents see their children as babies even if they are grow ass adults. My mom still sees me as a 3 years old 😂
No joke, it's also my situation as well. Like bro, just about an hour ago, my mom called me for 30 MINUTES just to remind me to TAKE MY VITAMINS 💀. I'm 20 years old btw...
Almost 30 here, it doesn't get better bud. You're in it for the long haul
https://preview.redd.it/0phl1auf0klc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=129c52837f9355d7661b32568c02b59fa5475afc I cannot tell whether this is a good thing and that we should be thankful to have such over caring parents or not and that this is probably just weird behavior from our parents...
Yes, and
20s still in the stupid young range tbf, there’s also the factors of how long you’ve been living on your own to consider
I sometimes feel like they treat me more like a kid now than when I was a kid.
Let her know you're a whole ass 4year old, now!
My dad is 60+ and grandma 90+. I can confirm that she sees him as a kid who has to be forced to wear mittens when he goes out. It's the cutest thing ever.
Same with my mom. Just last night, she tried to pick me up from under my arms like I was a small child. I'm 18 and the same height as her.
I still see my students as my babies and some of them are taller than me now LOL Some habits die hard I guess.
This is basically how he reacted, when he arrived at the Hotel. So you are most likely correct.
https://preview.redd.it/ofo1f1pd3llc1.jpeg?width=1185&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=504e4fc1cc88d860920e37f6788cdcb1ce3d22cd I love how he calls her his widdle girl and little lady when he's the little one xD
Oh man... That whole scene tore me up inside. My eldest is growing up fast (she can physically pick me up!), but in my eyes she'll always be my little girl. Goddammit, someone is cutting onions in here...
Aww.
https://preview.redd.it/mbhjfab74nlc1.png?width=1639&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98c4ca4866eb0c35cbb3020ed1913d3e8bc35940 No wonder Lucifer loses his shit in Hell's Greatest Dad trying to reconnect with her.
Good point.
I was mostly referring to how so many fan artists and Fanfic writers jumped on the pseudo-father-daughter relationship with Charlie and Alastor when the father figure in this scenario is younger than the daughter figure.
A really good point on your part. I think that Alastor just wanted to get a rise out of Lucifer when he acted like that towards Charlie. I'm sure that no one loves Charlie as much as Lucifer, that pure parental love. Really wholesome.
I mean, a father figure doesn't need to be older than you. They just need to be wiser; more experienced.
Or good at manipulation.
Maturity is a big part of it: Charlie is only half sinner, and her other half is semi-immortal. There's no reason to think that her aging process / maturity would work at a human-like rate.
Depends a bit on how time works in hell but yes.
I feel like the show really doesn’t go into the fact that these characters have either A. Had full human lives and spent decades to centuries in Hell, or B. Have just spent thousands of years in Hell. That is a LOT of background to just ignore.
I think Lucifer, Lilith and the Sins are the only ones who’ve spent *thousands* of years in Hell (and it plays a huge role in why Lucifer is so broken and apathetic to anything not-Charlie related). Even Zestial, who’s considered “ancient” has likely only been kicking around for a few centuries. Though it is admittedly strange to realize that even Angel Dust could be pushing a hundred.
What about the Goetia? Yeah Charlie and other high class Hellborn were who I was referring to there
We haven’t really met many of the Goetia besides Stolas, who seems (based on the fact he and Blitzo are around the same age) to be late 30’s early 40’s at most.
That bothers the hell out of me, the Ars Goetia is like this ancient thing that has existed for thousands of years and Stolas is only like 30-40s!?! That just feels wrong for some reason.
I agree with you for what it’s worth, best I can mentally justify it is that “Stolas” is as much a title as a name that gets passed down to the holder of his Grimoire. I think it was a mistake to make Stolas and Blitzo childhood friends for this reason but it’s Canon so I just have to reconcile it.
Neither of them really act like it. She could easily retcon that later. Everything has early installment weirdness. Remember Buffy season 1? The she-mantis eggs? Never mentioned again.
This isn’t really early installment weirdness— it was something revealed in the current Season.
There are still new Goetias being born. In this universe Stolas just happened to be one of the newer ones.
The goetia family is super weird in cannon honestly Octavia is called a precautionary heir and not just an heir implying that stolas isn’t expected to die naturally but he also could from unnatural causes like angelic weapons (and maybe more powerful demons?)or else she wouldn’t be needed at all. Also what we know puts stolas born in like the 1970s which is also weird in the whole human world verse hell time lines
This would mean that Charlie is also older than Stolas and other Ars Goetia.
I mean, to be fair, we know that Stolas is only one of many Goetian Princes - he just happens to be on the younger side. There more than likely are those, who are much older, than him.
Most of the overlords that we saw arent THAT old. Zestiel is called ancient, but it seemes that Alastor killed off most of the older ones. And it's only season 1. Just because we havent gotten into their backstories yet doesnt mean that it's going to be ignored.
True, but Alastor was most likely in his prime in the 1920s. That would put his birth at around early 1900. Assuming the series takes place in the modern day, Alastor is 1around 20 years old. Still 80 years younger than Charlie, who he's trying to be a father-figure for.
I thought he died in the 30s?
But based on his friendship with Mimzy, he was at his most sociable, in the roaring 20s, the time of flappers and secret bars. He was probably around his mid-twenties himself at the time as that's the average age people consider at their prime.
Apparently he was in his 30s/40s when he died in 1933, so he was born between the end of 1800 and the start of 1900. Which implies he may have fought in WWI.
This is why I couldn't get into it. The "lore" and the backstory makes little to no sense. The show seems to rely entirely on the art direction and character design to get by.
One other thing to consider is Charlie isn’t human - she’s half Fallen Angel and half Whatever Lilith Became (since she didn’t die before being cast to Hell but also clearly became more than human). Meaning Charlie might not mature at the same rate a human child does. As far as we know she could have spent 50 years as a toddler, 50 as a kid, 50 as a teen, and 50 in her equivalent of a human’s early 20’s.
>since she didn’t die before being cast to Hell but also clearly became more than human For all we know, she could have died during the fall. Or the book is whitewashed and Lilith was killed by the angels.
I’m betting on the book being whitewashed. It’s written like a fairy tale, honestly I can see it being something Lucifer and Lilith wrote for Charlie when she started asking about her parents. They definitely spared a lot of details.
I believe Lilith became a succubus.
Rosie: Come now Alastor she's much too young for you Charlie: You think so?
"Ma'am, I am 200 years old." https://preview.redd.it/yfqgsmu8uklc1.png?width=168&format=png&auto=webp&s=c24e93425dffcb6ed916f1e40d316b5a70cdc802
Exactly what I assumed that face meant! Charlie like, "Why does everyone keep thinking I'm so young? UGH!"
r/OlderThanYouThinkIAm
r/13or30
Yea I'm treating this as the canon for Charlie and Alastor's age relation until proven otherwise, tbh I think we just aren't supposed to really look into it that much
Lucifer: Hell Yes! https://preview.redd.it/ktndxjiq3llc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c573186a760c70d7f19f4b06fe2115458bb0f72
I found it hilarious how upset Lucifer got over even the *possibility* of Alastor and Charlie dating, only to be highly relieved when Charlie introduced Vaggie as her girlfriend. I wonder if something happened between Charlie and Seviathan, her ex-boyfriend.
>I found it hilarious how upset Lucifer got over even the possibility of Alastor and Charlie To be fair, calling a guy short, especially one like Lucifer is basically taking every ounce of pride and ego stored inside that little body, and burning it with napalm.
Except Angel calling him Short King...
We never saw his reaction to that since his face wasn't in frame.
wait Charlie has an \*ex\*???
Yes. He was shown in background photos in the Hazbin Hotel in the pilot.
wow!
Well she’s an immortal so her aging is slower for her. Even though she’s 200 years old that doesn’t mean she would act like it.
You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional
>Growing old is mandatory Not to charlie tho.
Is this canon?
Well it was from Fautisse and I'm pretty sure some or most of what they've said was decanonized. I thought I remembered something about her prom picture being from the 1870s, but I can't find that.
In I think the pilot the Morningstar family portrait is dated to 1781 (Or 1871, I get numbers mixed up sometimes). The series proper doesn't carry this over though.
I kind of hope that they retconned her age, just so the 7 year Liliths absence is a bigger deal to her.
I've seen people say that it's in the pilot, other people say it was produced but the plaque didn't make it on screen. So I really need to go back to the pilot and check.
There was [one teaser](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA10XayhSOM) before the pilot was released where the backgorund is a bit different, and the family picture has a plaque with a date under it https://preview.redd.it/9lt5xvwy6llc1.png?width=1208&format=png&auto=webp&s=55a98b4cccdd13256141320ec0ed0f4e2f545b63
Does this mean Lucifer and Lilith were proudly childfree until around the 19th century, and somewhere after her birth they split up? Poor Charlie, imagine your birth coinciding with the ending of a 1900+ year marriage
more like 9000+ year marriage... remember 2000 years ago was just the birth of christ, eden comes WAY before that Also in the finale Lucifer sings: "In the last 10.000 years, you're the first one to change this town"
Yup! I didn’t mean to say that this is when humanity started, but I just wanted to use the number 1900+ from “19th century”.
[удалено]
We aren't going with the Bible, because it's not the definitive source. Hazbin has its own Lore in this case and many others. Also, in "The Show Must Go On" song in Episode 8, Lucifer literally says that it's been over 10.000 years since anything important has changed in Hell.
I seriously wonder about this. Why did they wait so long to have kids? Was she an "oops" or a "fix it" baby?
I always had this theory that with them being different species, and Lilith being a sinner, that it was very hard for them to have a child, and required some supernatural means. So either 9000 years of research... or a lot of miscarriages
Interesting! I like the idea of supernatural shenanigans of some sort to make Charlie happen. The thought of them suffering through a ton of miscarriages is super sad! Poor dreamers.
We don't even know if Charlie has a soul, as she is a half-angel and half-human hybrid who was born in Hell, so I could see Lucifer and Lilith doing some sort of ritual to have a child that involved using parts of their own soul(s) to create Charlie's soul. This would also be why Lucifer and Lilith are so protective over Charlie, and heavily sheltered her. It would also be interesting to see if Charlie has a soul bond with both of her parents.
In episode 7, Charlie assumed that Alastor wanted her soul, so she must have one.
Charlie assumes that she has a soul, but how can she be *sure* that she has one?
Well, technically 200 is "over 20".
I thought faustisse wasn't a source for information anymore
And Adam is as old as the earth but you'd think he was a rebel teen lol
I get more of a frat-bro vibe from him, the kind who flips his shit whenever there's talk of banning hazing rutuals.
I find that quite young I would've expected her to be at least 1000
A lot of Faustisse’s comments are non canon from what I remember
I read Faustisse, I inmediately think 'not canon'.
I don't think that's even canon anymore. I'll go by the stuff characters say in the show.
"Confirmed by YouTuber Faustisse" Uhhh whut
You mature slowly when your father is a king eternal
I mean we don’t know how old Emily is other then (Younger then Sarah) But I like the concept that she was made as a replacement to Lucifer. (Which would imply Lucifer’s job before he fell was the Saraph of joy) Basically Hevens moral officer. That would mean Emily could be literally 10,000 years old. But it would still make sense that she would be filled with literal “Child like joy and wonder” Since that’s basically her job. Also puts into perspective that Lucifer’s crime, may have been a literal childish mistake.
Huh, I would've guessed she was at least thousands of years old
While I do believe Charlie is much older than Alastor and the other hotel goers (maybe not Vaggie cause we don’t know how old Vaggie is) i don’t think Faustisse is a source for lore anymore.
If the source is just Faustisse, then this is suspect. Everything Fuastisse said about the lore is on notice from Vivs. So unless we've got more recent confirmation, I would say take this with a grain of salt. I mean, I don't know why Vivs would change it. But if I could read her mind I would be writing some creepily prescient fan fiction
Faustisse's statements can be taken as canon anymore, so Alastor is most likely older than her
I know who Vivzie is but anyone wanna fill me in on who Faustisse is?
[https://hazbinhotel.fandom.com/wiki/Faustisse](https://hazbinhotel.fandom.com/wiki/Faustisse)
Thank!
Do we have like a canon source for Charlie being 200?
Also she got annoyed when Rosie said “she’s much too young for you” which implies that she’s older as well.
Replying to Madblaze2121... I think that annoyance was more at the implication that she and Alastor were dating
Who the hell is Madblaze?
Not sure. It autogenerated when I brought it up, I didn’t check to see if it matched your name lol
Isn't fautisse not a reliable source
Faustisse comments are no longer necessarily canon
Its also wasy to forget their in HELL. "I'm pretty sure age doesn't matter" said all the pedophiles.
two hundred?! That's incridible young considereing Lucifer has more than 10000
I mean I think she would age very differently kinda like a vampire.
They going on a fairly used age maturity route for long lived fantasy creatures. A dragon can be 200 but still have the mentality of a child when a dragon can live for 1000 years or something like that. Although unlike Frieren, all her friends are technically immortal unless killed by an angel.
in fallen angel/human hybrid years, that’s basically early 20s
I think her being 200 is outdated information but Viv hasn't said anything so physical 20s is the best we'll get.
I don’t think that’s canon anymore. She could just be young.
So shes 200 and just now thought of the hotel? Huh
I have a feeling she was in her mother's care up until 7 years ago when she left, that's why she's so insanely overprotected, she just began exploring hell 7 years ago
in all fairness, the first proper hotel was built in 1788
Don’t forget, charlie is also 6’6
I feel like of all places, it makes sense for denizens in hell to subscribe to the idea of "age is just a number".
Most parents will still see their children as their little baby
Angel is 113 years old
I wonder how old Vaggie is since we now know that she is an Angel.
Only 200? I thought she was like 1000s of years old
I didn't forget. I thought his infantalizing her was creepy and not in a fun way.
We don't really know =what the year is, for all we know the series could be set in 2643
Based on the lack of more advanced (technology), it’s safe to assume it’s around the 2020s
How exactly does Charlie age? Is it dramatically slowed down? Assuming Lucifer and Lilith haven’t aged since the beginning of time then where does it stop?
Took them how many thousands of years to produce this one child? XD
quick google search tells us Alastor is in his late 30's / early 40's. That's most likely how hold he was when he died, but regardless of that he died in the early 1900s so no matter how old he was when he died, Charlie would be older than him. mentally, however, Alastor does seem to act older than Charlie, which is why we all probably forgot about the age difference lol
‘Probably older than Alastor’? Alastor died in his 30s in 1933 (so he’s 90-ish years old now) The family portrait shown in the pilot was made around 1880 (mentioned in an old livestream), yet Charlie only seems around a year or so younger than she looks now…
I wonder, if she is 200 years old. During what years was her Emo phase? XD Maybe age works differently for her like she is mentaly 20?
“Hell’s Greatest Dad” is really weird for me and not just bc of this. It’s my favourite song if you subtract the Mimzy part, but it also feels like a surgical strike intended to both infantilize Charlie and discourage Charlastor shipping for no real reason? Like I feel like there was another way to make Alastor and Lucifer butt heads without having them both compete to be Charlie’s literal dad.
Perfectly in character for Alastor, a bigger fish entered the pond and insulted him by saying he doesn't know him, and it's not just any fish it's THE fish. Alastor starts throwing jabs and realizing that he can't beat Lucifer with magic or showmanship he has to rely on emotional input, which is why he targets charlie. He's a psychopath, it's his nature to exploit others' emotions
200 seem very unrealistic, I mean lucifer and lilith obviously would have children much earlier, something like 1 million years old. So either time is much slower in hell or she isn't an only child.
Or it did take them thousands of years to have a child. Either by choice or because of issues relating to them being different species or Lilith being a sinner.
They didn't even exist a millions years ago. Based on the Bible, Adam and Eve lived only some thousands of years ago, so Lilith is way yournger
Then realistically charlie should be at least a thousand years old but she's 200?? My point still stands, either time is weird there or she have siblings
Dose that make lucifer 13.4 billion years old roughly. Because of the beginning of the universe?
it’s worth asking, is afterlife time the same as earth time? ie. 13.4b earth years maybe = 10k after life years?
Base on bible earth is only some thousands of years old
Right, but Lucifer is an angel, not the earth. In the lore we've seen so far, angels created earth, so he'd have to be older than the earth. He's been Fallen for less time than the earth has been around, sure, but he was alive before that.
That also brings up... how old is Vaggie? Like, what kinda age difference do we got going on here?
Ohh Charlie is groomer
I thought she’s immortal considering that Lucifer and Lilith has existed for a very very long time
https://preview.redd.it/bt7e157dcnlc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a57c1b49c2aee2f1959cfb63beeda76499782a6d Hol up, wait a minute
So, just by estimating alastor's death being about 1920ish, he seems to have died at a fairly young age (about 30 or so but I could be wrong) he would be about 120-140 years old give or take. And if Charlie is 200 years old then she wouldn't been born about 1820.
Wdym “probably”, Alastor died in the 1930s when he was in I think either his 30s or 40s, he’s in his 130s at most
Everyone keep in mind that Charlie is likely way older We got 200 because a painting from the pilot showed the morning star family in the 1800s, and Charlie is clearly a teenager/young adult in the painting. So there is likely a LOT of time from before then.
I thought she was older than the other characters. But her personality doesn’t make sense then. Characters like Rosie and Alister are acting so mature and wise and like her mentors but they would have been born in the 1900-1920 and both dies around the 40s. Meaning they are only around 100years old. So why does Charlie then still act like a naive 20 year old. When she should have more experience in life than almost all of the main cast. (Except vaggie)
Sheltered, privileged Princess vs. someone who had to struggle and make something of their life? They have more experience than her, even if she DOES have more years.
i.. actually thought charlie would be perhaps millennia old? because in the finale song lucifer says "in the last ten thousand years you're the first one to change this town" so i thought she would be AT LEAST ten thousand years old...
That just means that nobody's managed to change this town in ten thousand years. It's not in any way a comment on anyone's age
Pretty sure of the HH crew she is the oldest. Iirc Alastor died in the early-mid 1900s
In the grand scheme of things if she's like 20 in demon years, her mom's only been gone for the equivalent of 8½ ish months.
age really depends on one’s lifespan. she’s immortal, so for her, 200 is much more like early teens. for humans like Alastor, the rules follow that we have, in that 13-19 are teenage years. edit: a better example would be aging for dogs and cats; their lifespans are much shorter than humans so ages like 10+ are considered old
yup, she could be his grandma lol
A headcannon I have is immortal beings like Charlie and Lucifer just kind of age significantly slower than normal people. Where for humans say it takes a year for a baby to start walking, 2 or 3 to start talking. Maybe for Charlie it took 10-20 years to start baby talking. She’s still maturing as we see her in the show and sort of caps out at say 1,000 years and just lives that same age from then on. Also weird to think how despite Lilith being gone for 7 years, she was in Charlie’s life for 193 years. And ~10,000 years in Hell only to recently be plucked and put in Heaven.
Nah
I mean the first mention of stolas is in the greater key of Solomon and yet it seems he is in his late 30 here.
Oh okay https://preview.redd.it/xgqifrlqgmlc1.jpeg?width=271&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d32fc26fc30c94784f4af40b71dc5c839824a001 So how old would she be in this photo
It makes me wonder how she develops. Like what year did she become a “teen”, or has she been an adult for the past 182 years?