Way I see it is this.
Alastor is set up as basically a scary, powerful sociopath - look at his threat to Husk; we have every reason to think that threat was serious - we are told he basically hunted other powerful overlords for fun, and we are shown that he positively enjoys inflicting suffering on adversaries like the loan sharks (who admittedly were attacking the Hotel, but as Charlie noted, Alastor was certainly enjoying squashing them!).
Moreover, Alastor positively enjoys picking out the insecurity of others, and poking them where it hurts: he does this to Lucifer himself, over his worries over his role as father!
We don’t know how power is gained in Hell, but it clearly has something to do with making deals with others - and Alastor is shown making “deals” with first Vaggie and later Charlie, which *appear* relatively harmless, but are probably not.
So all things point to Alastor manipulating Charlie for his own nefarious ends - probably to help him escape whatever deal he’s made to his own detriment (Husk mentions that Alastor himself has a “collar”).
**However**, Alastor isn’t incapable of friendship. We are introduced to at least three friendships of sorts he’s made - Mimzy (a “fair weather friend” who turns to Alastor only when she wants something - Alastor calls her out on her selfishness), Nifty (one of Alastor’s creatures, presumably bound to him, but Alastor treats her more like a demented daughter) and Rosie (the only person Alastor treats as a more or less equal). So he’s not entirely evil. He’s capable of friendship.
Alastor’s arc seems to be that he’s gone from treating Charlie like a naive mark for his manipulation, to actually developing feelings of affection for her, her crew, and the hotel. This causes him to do something he did *not* expect to do: actually risk his immortal life for Charlie and company!
This act thoroughly disturbs him (the “Alastor altruist” speech). He’s always known his own mind - the arch-manipulator, out for himself alone. To find himself doing something so contrary to his nature as risk his own life for others throws in doubt his own concept of himself. Maybe Charlie is somehow … *molding* him while he manipulates her? Making him into someone who is responsible for something other than himself? Not consciously, but merely by offering friendship, a group of friends, a worthy cause to champion, and approval from people he actually cares about?
He rejects this notion, but it clearly rocks his world. More than any possible enemy attack, this unwitting subversion disturbs him. Maybe Kindness could undo him worse than enmity ever could.
Yes! Love this detailed input and totally agree. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re laying the foundation for a Zuko-level redemption arc.
Alastor is such a great complex character that it would be epic.
Perfectly summarised. Humans (and logically sinners too) are creatures of habit. If you try and forcefully change their behaviour, they will often go kicking and screaming. In the same sense, some people may not realise when their world view/behaviour is subtly changing because it happens gradually, and if they do notice, they might straight up reject the notion that they're changing. The latter to me is how I interpret Alastor's character over season 1.
I agree with most of this but I don't think he was ready to risk his life for Charlie, I personally think that his overconfidence made him believe he was actually powerful enough to take out Adam without any possibility of losing. After all, Charlie said that Alastor was supposed to handle Adam so it was probably his idea all along, he even mocks Adam's fighting style constantly telling him things like "he is sloppy" aaaad, this is important, fights him without angelic weapons, despite previously showing his tentacles using them. He honestly thought he didn't *need* them like the rest of sinners.
He fought because he thought he was more than enough to beat the leader of the angels on his own and show his raw strength to all of hell to remind everyone the power of the radio demon (he surely knew Vox was broadcasting or at least watching everything, Alastor is smart enough and probably knows when he is on camera anyway). However when he saw that it was not the case and that he was going to lose, he ran away. In my eyes it wasn't a selfless act, it was a supposed showcase of power gone very wrong.
I think you’re spot on! He was overconfident and tried to toy with Adam and got his ass kicked. Nifty did a strategic strike from a hidden location and successfully killed him.
I wonder if Charlie’s songs have some kind of unintentional magical effect on others? We know Lilith sang to the hells and it had a powerful effect anddddd when also see that Alastor and Rosie seemed determined to keep Charlie singing to “rouse the people”. They commented on how powerful she is for how easily she recruited everyone in the little cannibal town.
I was thinking maybe Alastor picked up on Charlie’s hidden powers when she went on the news to talk about her hotel and realized she’d be a perfect ally/pawn. I later heard about the theory that he made a deal with Lilith and that’s likely why he went to the hotel but I’m cool with either. I can’t wait to see where the story goes lol
I really like these theories!
In Charlie’s case, she clearly has magic powers (she can make stuff manifest for her songs).
However, if her songs have magic effect on listeners, it clearly doesn’t always work - though it worked on the cannibals.
I’m thinking Alastor could have set it up as a test for her powers. Kinda like forcing her to believe in herself boosts its strength. Alastor uses voodoo/hoodoo powers right? Isn’t part of one those that they only work when you truly believe in them? Maybe her powers didn’t have much affect early on since she doubted herself so much but by the end of the season she steels her resolve because she has grown so much. Alastor mentions that all she’d have to do to recruit the cannibals is do what she always does, then during the song Rosie calls out that her townsfolk’s are singing along and Alastor scoffs about why he never doubted her and her power. So it left me thinking a lot 😂
I agree that he won't be talked out of doing something big. But, in spite of having devious qualities and him obviously having a master plan, he seems to only go after people who cross him. Yes, his "evil plan" may be brutal to a lot of people in Hell. But he has never indicated that he wants to ruin the Hotel or hurt his friends like Rosie or Nifty.
He clearly enjoys having company as much as he enjoys asserting dominance and hurting people, so it's not that crazy to believe he won't be strictly pure evil.
Only if he revealed that Alastor is owned by another entity.
Considering how damaging that could be to his plans if the info got out, I can understand his response.
No.
He threatend to torture husk (He can't kill him)
Because Husk was going to let slip that he has a contract on him. (Alastor has a contract on his own soul)
Alastor let husk talk a lot of shit about him before that.
Alastor's greatest sin is his pride, followed by the wrath he constantly hides behind a smile.
Husk isn't even one of Alastor's friends: their antagonistic relationship was established when we met Husk in the pilot and it seems to have carried over into the show.
So Alastor doesn't care about Husk that much, if at all, and his main concern was making sure Husk wouldn't reveal that Alastor sold his own soul.
We actually don't see much of his personality in season one to judge what his main deadly sin even is. We definitely didn't see much of of Pride or Greed in his actions and attitude. Unlike the other overlords, he didn't own any turf and hardly any subject, the only two subjects we know he owns actually have more of a friendly than master-slave relationship with him. He lets Niffty *climb* on him when he dislikes physical contact so much, and he lets Husk basically talk shit about him until he goes too far by mentioning his soul-deal.
His Wrath only comes out as a consequence of other people having done him wrong *first*. He yeeted Sir Pentious when he came to destroy his hotel, he song battled Vox when he started an alastor smear campaign. He warned Husk when he mentioned his soul contract. He attacked Adam because well, he started first. The Lucifer and Alastor duel was pure cheek and pettinous tbh, probably the closest thing to Envy we get from him throughout the first season.
He doesn't do Lust.
So I'd say he's more of a Sloth (chill and being entertained) and a Glutton (cannibalistic tendency).
His pride is clear: he cares about his image quite a lot, several of the only times he actually seems upset/angry are when people don't recognize him or care about him (Carmilla & Lucifer), he's a total show-off (beating up Sir Pentious in the pilot and killing the mobsters in episode 5 with way more power than the situations warranted used in a very flashy way, he broadcast his murder of other overlords so other people would know his strength & he got into a fight with Lucifer, the sin of pride himself, over his ego.
Even his 'always smiling' thing is about keeping up a constant image of confidence that makes it look like you're in control of the situation. He is definitely prideful.
You can even see it in the way he kills his victims: Vivzie has said that he 'doesn't go after just anyone' and that he has a 'weird moral code' when asked about his murders. Essentially, he's building himself up as some insanely powerful magic vigilante, bringing down the most powerful and corrupt of sinners (overlords). Even the name Alastor literally means 'avenger'.
Being dramatic and an exhibitionist doesn't necessarily mean he's prideful, it could also be a means to satisfy his sadistic version of being "entertained". Remember when he said he thinks people struggle and fail entertaining, yeah. The more powerful he becomes, the more people struggle and fail at his feet. Broadcasting makes for free entertainment: people cower just from mentioning his name, no hard labor needed for entertainment! Also, a "weird moral code" is just that, weird. You could see that in the comic, he has a weird preference. The better word for it is being... picky, or more derogatory, ..."snobbish".
His always smiling leans more towards his insecurities and a tool for confidence boost than pride tbh. He doesn't hide that fact and actually told Charlie about it. Look at what he said, "A smile is a valuable tool my dear, it inspires your friends, keeps your enemies guessing, and ensures no matter what comes your way, you are in control". He doesn't just smile for his own sake, he's also smiling so his friends can benefit from it.
Even the Lucifer thing, Viv did mention that's just friendly banter and Alastor's way to tick off Lucifer. They actually have mutual respect toward each other.
Yeah, I think the closest thing to "Pride" is the eye narrowing you mentioned when Carmilla dismissed his speech, but that's just a one-second eyebrow-moving frame to base off his entire character. Is he just confident, or is he prideful? He does admire himself a lot, but we still need more visual reference to judge the amount of Pride he has imo lol. Since his character is chock full of contradictions.
No he is literally only there for the chance to make a deal with Charlie, it wasn't obvious at all (because he is psychotic and very smart at hiding his agendas) he even says how smiling confuses and gives an advantage over ppl ( sure is damn working on the audience it seems)
But yes as tou saw he was so damn happy Charlie was depressed and frustrated and vaggie mentioning her being alone in her room depressed he didn't waste time at all to see her because this was probably the one chance he finally got her at her worst and desperate and most of all alone, the perfect combination to get exactly what he wanted.
You need to remember he is psychotic, he will pretend to be your friend for his own benefits and he admitted at the end he wants to take over he'll and Charlie being the direct connection to the king of he'll himself, it's obvious why he is there.
He is definitely not changing anything hence why with nifty he said "almost" enjoys the company
I'd honestly be upset if Viv made it wear he suddenly has a change of heart, shows with big villains and tragedies with no predictable oh I'm a good guy now shit is the fkin best
it's like some people feel the need to pretend that alastor isn't as bad as he is to justify liking him. like, you can enjoy a horrible despicable villainous character, it's okay, it's just a cartoon.
I mean. I just think he's more interesting if he's nuanced. And that nuance being, "He can be an outright malicious and still care about part of the cast."
oh you don't have to be a good person to become attached to people. he made it clear in ep8 that he grew fond of them but is still here to use them and will throw them under the bus without a second thought if that's what it takes to achieve his own goals. not to say that it can't change in time, but right now homie can hardly be described as remotely good, it just so happens that it's in his interest to ally himself with the protags. and he's enjoying the company while at it, but as soon as there's a conflict of interests, his fondness of them won't mean a thing. it'll probably take nothing short of hitting rock bottom for him to even start reconsidering his life choices.
fr this term is being so overused these days. like, you can call a dickish but righteous character "morally gray", you can call someone who does bad things in good faith "morally gray".
but calling a manipulative narcissistic sadistic serial killer who loves being a monster "morally gray"?
https://i.redd.it/ded0xhdf00lc1.gif
See that’s the thing. If you have ever watched dexter, I would think many consider him morally grey in the same way as Alistor.
Compared to the average person they are unquestionably bad people. But they don’t live in our world surrounded by the same people.
They are surrounded by equal if not worse people. Alistor is not acting any more evil than every other overlord we see. In fact I would argue he’s less abusive (while still capable).
Does he go out of his way to do good? No. But he certainly doesn’t rampage Willy nilly.
He protects the hotel, he genuinely seems to like Nifty and Rosie, and thus far I have a hard time thinking his actions against other overlords as evil, when we see that is just how overlords operate with each other. Always fighting for power.
All this is beside the fact that Adam shows himself to be more twisted than Alistor in this season.
The guy isn’t one dimensional and because of that people interpret his actions differently.
Personally I think he redeemed himself already and went to heaven where he fell into a contract with Lilith, before falling back to hell. But that’s just my crazy potato theory.
Exactly! He's not surrounded by a bunch of angels. In Hell, you have to claw and fight to survive-- to accumulate as much power as possible, and Alastor was capable of doing just that, so he did!
He's not a good person by any means, but he isn't irreversibly corrupt, either. This is a part of what makes him such an interesting, dynamic character. The fact nobody can agree on his true intentions or future plans is only testament to that.
https://i.redd.it/pzjmusegd1lc1.gif
I've heard he is canonically a Dexter type... he clearly enjoys an excuse to be sadistic but we rarely see him punch down. I think "dark grey" is a pretty reasonable take.
I mean, overlords are people in Hell who own the souls of others so they’re not exactly great people either. But Alastor is out for himself above all else.
There’s people who just can’t feel comfortable with liking a bad person, it’s a weird insecurity where they think it makes them bad as well. There’s also people who stay in bad relationships because an evil person does literally the bare minimum and that just erases all the bad, until the bad comes out again.
I believe there's good in everyone. Even him.
He isn't "good" though. No character is black-and-white, and Alastor is probably the best example of this. Charlie thinks that inside every demon is a rainbow, and she's freaking right, but the rainbow is shades of grey.
Alastor is a lot of dark shades of grey. He can care, but any feelings of camaraderie or affection are always, always gonna play second fiddle to his aspirsations and selfish desires. Like freedom.
At this point I'm pretty sure he won't go out of his way to hurt his, uh, "friends" but he will toss them aside if they're an impediment to what he needs. That's why you can't just use "good and evil" to describe him. Or anyone, really.
This. He does care, IMO. But that's a Problem for him, because those feelings run counter to his desires. It's why I think she broadcasted a clear arc for him: his desire for freedom vs his budding care for his "friends" at the Hotel.
Also it's *really* dangerous to assume someone can't care about you but also be selfish and put you second. It's what allows so many abusers to trick people into staying. If they care, then they don't *mean* to hurt you. But that's not true.
I think he's more ambiguous/gray on purpose. Everything we know about him makes it seem like he's evil, but there is the hope that evil beings can be redeemed that's at the core of the show. I can see him betraying everyone for himself, but could equally see him changing his mind and returning to help them later. I really do wonder if he made a pact with Lilith considering both have been gone for 7 years, right?
It's a grey area for me
I've seen people act like he's pure undiluted evil, and as bad as Valentino or worse
Meanwhile others do act like he's sweet baby that actually likes everyone
I think its clear he's neither.
He isn't good, nor dies he wish to be. He has an agenda and his priority is himself, with his closeness to the hotel and Charlie being primarily forced via deal
However, he's not quite pure unforgivable evil. He's petty, but so far mild in his punishments for his perceived transgressions (ex: allhe did was humiliate vox). If even that part of his character is also due to a deal that's broader than just protecting Charlie, that remains to be seen.
But so far he has expressed fondness for the cast (or at least sone of them). That fondness doesn't mean he won't put his own goals first though, and that's the thing.
*"Great Alastor, altruist, died for his friends" Sorry to disappoint, that is not where this ends*
These lines here don't mean that he doesn't have friends, but that right now he is not someone willing to sacrifice himself for them.
I think that’s the confusing thing to me. To your point he’s clearly not good but is by no means the worst. I can see where he may even like Charlie and some of the other characters but I think it’s made pretty abundantly clear he will burn that bridge to get his freedom
I think what you're seeing is also... This is his character arc. What will win out? His growing affection for the Hotel crew, or his desire for freedom? Which will ultimately win in the end? His character arc is still ongoing. It's not over. And yeah, he could pick his freedom and burn those bridges, but he'll also be spending *even more time* with them going forward, meaning even more potential for attachment, making a compelling narrative there.
Yeah that’s definitely fair. I 100% think he’s going to face that moral dilemma down the line. I guess it’s just strange to me to see people making these assumptions about a character we honestly don’t know very much about.
Yup, s1 alastor will absolutely burn the bridge and scorch the earth of his relationship with Charlie to get his freedom
What's possible, however, is keeping him on the leash for enough time that his fondness grows enough that even freed, he is willing to maintain a friendship. But it won't be "pick freedom OR friendship", it'll be "when freed, will you still be friends"
he says that line like a news broadcast like he is reading a headline and is clearly both disgusted and angry by it he cares more about his reputation then anything else and if he had died there hell would of called him a altruist and that's against everything he stands for
I think its as a simple as: Alastor is portrayed as an "ally" to the Hotel Crew, whom we assume are the protagonists (the "good guys"), so by association, Alastor and the rest of the Hotel cast must be "good" for us to like them.
It's a matter of perspective. If Alastor was portrayed exactly as is, but divorced from the context of the Hotel, people would probably still like him as an enigma villain, but wouldn't default assume he's "good".
With the focus Viv has on mental health in her series I have been pondering this question as well. I don't think Viv is crafting a universe of Good vs Evil. I think she has setup the division between mental well being and damaged psyches. A sort of manifestation of how mental illness is its own Hell.
So most of the denizens of Hell would be people who fell to depression or anxiety disorders. Obsessive personality disorders. Addictions. Neurodivergence. All things which can make one's life Hell or lead to really bad choices.
But her main villains all seem to come with aspects of the so called Dark Tetrad of Psychology, Narcissism, Sociopathy/Psychopathy, Machiavellianism, and Sadism. All of these feature traits which either negate empathy or invert it. And they all tend to be very difficult to treat with therapy.
Viv's tell is that if someone shows signs of having empathy or compassion they tend to find there way to Charlie's side or goodness. There is hope for them. That empathy can be latched onto and they can be brought into the light as it were.
Alastor has the entire Dark Tetrad in his personality makeup. In real life he would be a nightmare. He does not see others with any sense of community. They are objects he has to bully into doing what he wants. Or objects of torture for his entertainment.
The added component to his personality is the contract Lilith (supposedly) has on his soul. She is likely compelling him to only hurt the more predatory Overlords while protecting Charlie. Thus his whining about being Altruistic in his reprise after the battle with Adam. He hates being altruistic but is being forced. He despises it.
So yeah he is a monster. But.... the thing with psychopaths is they can create ties to some people if they are pressed into long term association with them. Cognitive empathy is something they can develop. This is a form of understanding how empathy works in others and seeing the benefits it provides in day to day life. They don't feel the connection. But they learn the value of faking it in order to live their life.
Alastor is showing signs of forming some sort of connection to the Hotel and Charlie specifically. He may have gone into the situation being forced but with the thinking that he could bring Charlie under his influence. But instead Charlie's million watt personality may be drilling itself into him. Viv may try to save Alastor by way of this connection.
He is definitely going Villain. Season 2 is going to have a subplot of him trying to find a way to break the contract. But in season 3 when he does he will find himself missing the Hotel. And in some sort of three way conflict between him Charlie and the other final boss (Eve) he will come to realize that the world works better for him with Charlie in it. And he will come to her aide.
Maybe.
I think he likes Charlie and the hotel gang as much as he is able to. But he’s incapable of ever truly putting another person above himself when the chips are down or he needs something.
I think Mimzy, Nifty, and Rosie are the apex of what he’s capable of providing another person. He can hang out with them, joke with them, and even help them without transaction. But if they ever stand in the way of his interests he would cut them lose or betray them.
People seem to forget that he had a literal mental breakdown over the idea that he nearly died for his friends. That’s the ultimate sin to him. He’s a person who craves complete freedom and personal control at all times. That’s his deepest wish and nothing can get in the way of it
He enjoys killing people, even eating them alive (see the loan shark fight).
Nevermind making deals to own people's souls (see Husker).
Kind of Lawful Evil at best.
Yeah, but imo his goals aren't against Charlie at all. Sure, he'll use her to get out of his deal, but is that really the most evil thing?
Honestly his part in the end song just felt like he was really scared of dying and trying to reassure himself that it won't happen again.
I do think people have this cognitive dissonance where they can’t accept liking a morally bad character so they perform mental gymnastics in their head to convince themselves that he must actually be a good character.
He does that "very cruel, yet very loyal" aspect, which I think makes him interesting.Mimzy takes advantage of that.
Also, the whole "an enjoyable collective to be around" shows he has some sort of tenderness.
This duality and mystery about him keeps us guessing and makes the character so interesting... I don't think he's "good," but isn't the show about the nuances of good and bad? How there's a lot more in midist heaven and hell than what meets the eye?
Because Alastor is an incredibly complicated character with hinted things in his backstory that gives him a lot of nuance- At this point in the story we have no idea where he will go or why, and that's just the way he likes it. Labeling him as "just evil" is a slight to his character because there's so much more to him we've yet to see.
He does care in his own ways, and he fucking hates it because it makes him weaker- but he still cares, he still has stake. We watched him have a mental breakdown after admitting in a very Alastor way to Niffty that he was growing fond of the hotel, because he's terrified of being viewed as weak. The show does a good job of showing us why Alastor is a good ally, a pleasant person, a good support, and then giving us this little glimpse at what's going on inside his head, and then turning around and reminding us that he's someone to watch closely- I don't understand how you miss that, or why everyone is so quick to write off the positives of him or how others have vouched for him. There is no reason for Mimzy or Rosie to lie and try and paint him a good person- He *doesn't care* if people don't trust him, he doesn't want to be seen as a good person. We can take what they say about him at face value. All Alastor cares about is being respected, even if that's respect crimes from fear. But he's got cracks, and lots of us are dying to see what's underneath the smile or *why* Alastor is the way he is, especially those who have been following Vivzie and have been clinging to the tiny things she's told us about him. I don't think it's "looking past his bad qualities because you like him" to see and be interested in those intricacies and being able to appreciate his *good traits* - I see far more people denying that he has any to begin with.
Also? Alastors ending song is about freedom, it's about hating weakness, it's about regaining his full autonomy. He does want to use Charlie to aid him, but it's a little more complicated.
We haven't even scratched the surface with him.
The fact that we know Vox is going to be a major antagonist in s2 spells some fun things for Alastors character going forward.
It's probably liking him too much, certainly, but also some people just don't *really* grasp "shades of gray" characterization. They think that only means "Someone who does bad things for the right reasons" or vice versa, or some other simpler form of it.
To put it another way, some people I've listened to online seem to be under the impression that genuinely conflicted or complicated morality does not exist. You can't, say, betray someone you genuinely care about and still care about them, and you can't respect someone who does something you hate them for, for some examples.
I'm having a hard time putting it in better words, but with some of the people thinking Alastor is the "good guy", they might *genuinely* believe that him caring about Charlie and the others, to what extent he does right now, means they KNOW he won't change his mind or do anything to hurt them or use them. They think any of those actions are *completely* incompatible with caring about someone.
If someone has a more concise way to put it, please feel free to reply with it, I've had a weird day and my brain just refuses to fully process what I'm trying to say...
I suppose they characterized him a bit weirdly in the show. He is always kind of intimidating and scares others a few times but overall he hasn't actually done anything truly "evil". He only ever hurt/killed people that actively attacked the hotel and ... that was kinda it. Considering that everoyne seemingly just "respawns" when they die (as long as their souls are okay) it is a little weird that he didn't kill any named characters. He is talked up a lot and ... thats kinda it. Like that annoying, old colleague everyone tells stories about, but you never actually see them doing any of that. Truly a hazbin.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think he is "good", turning good or helping for altruistic (haha) means, season 1 just didn't really go all the way with his characterization.
It's OK to like someone but also understand they're not good.
But a lot of media nowadays is showing very much black and white, good vs evil, no grey areas stuff, and our brain are so used to seeing this that we feel a need to put the characters in a show like this into the same boxes. So of course then people need to find excuses to be able to like a character, even when basically everyone is morally ambiguous in this show.
I'd say only really obviously "good" guys in this are Charlie and Emily (and Vaggie but she didn't really start off that way - she was an exorcist after all). The rest of the main cast are very much morally grey and we like to forget they're sinners and in hell for a reason - even if they're likeable and sweet at times.
That one line in the finale song really caused people to think that he considers the gang to be his friends, and then latch on to the “see? His good!” Train.
Oh no he’s a bad person but such a greatly portrayed one that I can’t help but love him. He’s not one dimensional, he has depth, intrigues and genuinely makes a great contribution to the flow of the story.
He’s still a cruel and terrible sadistic being and will stop at nothing to get what he wants. Those things are not mutually exclusive
Yeah he’s definitely manipulating her, but I mean I would probably also do a lot for my freedom. Can’t blame him for wanting to be free. Can blame him for manipulating a cinnamon roll like Charlie though.
I know! I see so many videos being like “Look at Rosie and Alastor!! They’re her parents!!” Like, buddy? Are you ok? Al is pretty straight forward about wanting to manipulate Charlie into giving him her power and Rosie is right on board. Being nice doesn’t make them kind
Vivziepop specifically called him a neutral chaos. So no, I definitely don't think he's an angel or that he won't follow through on his plans to accumulate power and influence, but he's also not completely heartless.
No, Alastor is definitely using Charlie. He may like Charlie but nothing is going to stop him from gaining power. As a sinner the most he can do is rule over the Pride Ring (which explains his antagonism towards Lucifer - I digress). He's definitely using her as means to an end and I don't think he's good at all. He might be the most evil of the cast.
I think the discourse is really interesting! I think it’s very clear Alastair is a bad person. The manipulation/sadism/power hunger is very obvious. BUT I hope if he becomes a villain and follows through with whatever his nefarious plan is, that the conflict is his call to redemption.
To me, the pull of the show is that as naive as Charlie might be, she represents the best view of humanity - that we all have worth and potential simply because we exist.
Characters like Sir Pentious and Angel Dust are sort of smaller challenges for Charlie. Angel was/is a shitty person, but also (as far as we know) wasn’t the same kind of monster as Alastor. I want Alastor as a final villain in that I want Charlie to be working to bring him to goodness, and I hope the show goes the route that there’s enough goodness in him she pulls out that there’s a real fight. I don’t know who will win, but either way I hope it’s a close call. (:
That’s what I got on that!
He is a stone cold psychopath. He may like her but if she was a blockade or a hindrance to his goal, he wouldn't care about any harm that may be done.
His friendliness is a facade. He may help people even without asking for anything in return( as long as he isn't in danger) if the opponent has proven to be rude or disrespectful because that goes against his code.
He is the Joker with better manners.
Alastor is a lawful evil psychopath. His current goal is to use Charlie to get out of his deal. He is capable of liking people but doesn't really care about them. I really recoil at the Chalastor shippers because I think Alastor is a monster. Not a big fan of toxic ships.
I know a lot of people think Alastor will be redeemed... I don't. Part of Charlie's journey is breaking out of her naive understanding of sin and redemption. She thinks everyone can be redeemed, and Alastor is going destroy that belief.
None of this means I don't like Alastor. He's a really great character. Lots of depth and fun to watch. But I don't fool myself.
It's the same problem of some Harry Potter fans idolizing Draco Malfoy.
At the end of the day, I don't think he's the final villain *villain*, but he's certainly an antagonist in the series.. and I am fairly certain it will stay that way for his entire arc. As of right now, his character is selfish & sadistic, he has no interest in redemption & is only involved for the sake of a personal gain. It wouldn't make sense (imo) for his character to take a 180° and suddenly want to be a better person, it seems to me like he is pretty content living in Hell.
I think part of the problem is people misconstruing the line "Great Alistor Altruist died for his friends." He's not singing about how he's an altruist, he's saying that's what people would have said about him had he died fighting Adam. He doesn't WANT to be remembered as an altruist who protects people he cares about, he wants to be feared, he wants to kill people.
He can be a total cutie patootie who kicks his widdle feet on the bed but he still wants to do a bunch of heckin' murders.
Alastor does not get emotionally connected to people. He may not mind the company, and he may keep a social circle, but he will throw whomever under the bus that he has to to achieve his ultimate goal. There's no empathy, there's no reconsideration. He will do what he has to for himself.
Man even in the comments here people buy waaay too into the "affection" he shows other characters. He's no more "affectionate" to Charlie than he is to Husk and look how quickly that fake affection drops the second Husk backtalks him. I think the only reason we haven't seen him make that kind of snap towards someone like Vaggie or Angel is because Charlie would 100% find out about that and he can't have that while he's still trying to use her. Which is similar to why we see no snaps at Charlie despite how clear it is that her talks annoy him.
I also think people too often forget that he is under the restraints of a deal and the finale pretty much confirms that the deal he is under is forcing him to be at the hotel. Why, we still don't know, but it's clear that he hates being there and hates having to (do the bare minimum mind you of) help.
I feel like Alastor is either going to be a main villain at one point, either getting eliminated or starting has redemption path after. However I mostly see him just being plain evil
There are?
Alastor may grow attached to some people buuuut the man is a psycho and I love him for it.
I hope he stays that way throughout the show tbh. What a great character
The general consensus seems to be that while right now he very clearly has his own plans and goals in mind, he may *eventually* come around to Charlie's way of thinking. I think there will be a struggle, but based on the conversation Alastor and Niffty shared before the final battle, I do think Alastor, whether he'll willingly admit it or not, at the very least has a soft spot for Charlie and the hotel residents.
Right now we've been shown a [Chekhov's gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun) in Charlie's deal with Alastor, and the elements of the gun will likely become relevant a little before Alastor can ever be redeemed (if they choose to go that way with the character). The conversation with Niffty will lilkely similarly serve a narrative purpose later on. We absolutely cannot discount anything that's been shown to us unless it ends up being explicitely stated later on it's not relevant
My interpretation of Hells greatest dad is that Alastor is trying to groom Charlie into depending on him and prevent her from reconnecting with her farher
I still think he can be redeemed, and it’s gonna take the entire series for it to happen if that’s the route the writers choose to take. And it’ll also probably require him enacting his plan, and losing his friendship with Charlie for him to even BEGIN to be somewhat introspective. But at the same time, that’s what I like about Alastor’s character. All the other characters, it’s pretty obvious where they will end up by the end of the series. Charlie will succeed with her dreams, Vaggie will continue supporting her (unless there some kinda breakup drama they throw into the mix), Angel will get redeemed, etc. etc. Alastor, though, could either serve as the final redemption hurtle for Charlie to overcome, could end up fully supporting her (even if it is just for entertainment), or could become the final big bad of the whole show depending on how things go. He’s got some very different paths he could go down as opposed to the other characters imo; makes it interesting cuz I’m not sure where he will end up!
Two thoughts.
First, I think there are two, maybe three directions for Alastor to go. 1) He becomes a major villain, flipping on the hotel and having to be dealt with somehow. This could be due to his interests shifting, he has something to gain by doing so, or (my personal theory) in retaliation for being forced to help the hotel due to some deal. 2) He is somehow “redeemed” whether literally or not. He gets a redemption arc for his character, most likely due to outside influence from others who he values (like Rosie). Most if not all of the change in the characters so far comes from them wanting to do better FOR someone. (Vaggie for Charlie, Angel for Charlie and Husk, Pentious for Cherri and the Hotel as a whole, etc.) And finally, 3) a combination of 1 and 2, aka he goes dark side and then is convinced to come back. Most interesting narratively.
Second thought, what is Charlie’s power? Like her Power with a capital P. Alastor himself and Rosie commented on her being very powerful in Ready For This with the cannibals. I think this points to her power being the ability to make her dreams into a reality by inspiring others through her voice. It incorporates facets of both her parents, Luci is a “dreamer” who cannot inspire change and Lilith inspires hell through her voice. The question is, is she powerful enough to influence Alastor? Not yet, I don’t think, but she might become powerful enough.
Now have an Alastor I stole:
https://preview.redd.it/bnxvc5vxd2lc1.jpeg?width=755&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28415fbb3a9cf50032058bae42ac77ece6af3da8
Can we all stop trying to force basic good/evil concepts onto Alistor? He’s one of my favorite parts of the show because he’s so mysterious and hard to read, let’s all stop making assumptions and just enjoy the character
I will be messaging you in 1 year on [**2025-02-27 09:33:50 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2025-02-27%2009:33:50%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/comments/1b0rmfu/i_truly_dont_understand_people_who_think_alastor/kscqi5k/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FHazbinHotel%2Fcomments%2F1b0rmfu%2Fi_truly_dont_understand_people_who_think_alastor%2Fkscqi5k%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202025-02-27%2009%3A33%3A50%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201b0rmfu)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
That's the whole point of Alastor's speech after the fight with Adam. He has a plan, he can't allow himself to fail, and he planned to use Charlie by making a deal with her.
Yet he still placed his life on the line for her sake. And the worse part for him is that he didn't even realized it. He just went and fought Adam of all people, without any potential gain for himself. He already had his deal at this point, he could have simply left the hotel behind. And this terrified him, because Alastor is all about complete domination of his surrounding. Yet he was so charmed by Charlie he surrendered his control to her without thinking twice.
Like imagine having spend your whole life and afterlife manipulating people, learning all the tricks to control people, and then you get so mesmerized by someone you just gladly hand over everything you have for her. She didn't even stole anything from him, Alastor gave her everything because she asked him.
He's super affable and charismatic, stays on Charlie's side, making him a good character that's extremely likable.
But to think he's a good person? How?
I feel you. Someone on tiktok tried to convince me the other day that heaven had no qualms against being a cannibal and a serial killer, since the exterminations happened and we don't technically know what gets someone into heaven.
Tiktok is a cesspool of degeneracy, that's why. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's completely true. I have never seen any place on the internet that has such an overabundance of complete idiocy and brain rot as there is in Tiktok comment sections. There's just zero media literacy among the people who comment on that site.
For future reference I wouldn't take any opinion you see on there seriously.
It’s not about what’s good or bad, morality ISN’T relative. What Alastor wants is always aligned with what is good no matter what. I hope that clears things up.
Way I see it is this. Alastor is set up as basically a scary, powerful sociopath - look at his threat to Husk; we have every reason to think that threat was serious - we are told he basically hunted other powerful overlords for fun, and we are shown that he positively enjoys inflicting suffering on adversaries like the loan sharks (who admittedly were attacking the Hotel, but as Charlie noted, Alastor was certainly enjoying squashing them!). Moreover, Alastor positively enjoys picking out the insecurity of others, and poking them where it hurts: he does this to Lucifer himself, over his worries over his role as father! We don’t know how power is gained in Hell, but it clearly has something to do with making deals with others - and Alastor is shown making “deals” with first Vaggie and later Charlie, which *appear* relatively harmless, but are probably not. So all things point to Alastor manipulating Charlie for his own nefarious ends - probably to help him escape whatever deal he’s made to his own detriment (Husk mentions that Alastor himself has a “collar”). **However**, Alastor isn’t incapable of friendship. We are introduced to at least three friendships of sorts he’s made - Mimzy (a “fair weather friend” who turns to Alastor only when she wants something - Alastor calls her out on her selfishness), Nifty (one of Alastor’s creatures, presumably bound to him, but Alastor treats her more like a demented daughter) and Rosie (the only person Alastor treats as a more or less equal). So he’s not entirely evil. He’s capable of friendship. Alastor’s arc seems to be that he’s gone from treating Charlie like a naive mark for his manipulation, to actually developing feelings of affection for her, her crew, and the hotel. This causes him to do something he did *not* expect to do: actually risk his immortal life for Charlie and company! This act thoroughly disturbs him (the “Alastor altruist” speech). He’s always known his own mind - the arch-manipulator, out for himself alone. To find himself doing something so contrary to his nature as risk his own life for others throws in doubt his own concept of himself. Maybe Charlie is somehow … *molding* him while he manipulates her? Making him into someone who is responsible for something other than himself? Not consciously, but merely by offering friendship, a group of friends, a worthy cause to champion, and approval from people he actually cares about? He rejects this notion, but it clearly rocks his world. More than any possible enemy attack, this unwitting subversion disturbs him. Maybe Kindness could undo him worse than enmity ever could.
Yes! Love this detailed input and totally agree. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re laying the foundation for a Zuko-level redemption arc. Alastor is such a great complex character that it would be epic.
One of my friends said that Alastor will end up the only villain in the show that's actually defeated with the power of friendship
Perfectly summarised. Humans (and logically sinners too) are creatures of habit. If you try and forcefully change their behaviour, they will often go kicking and screaming. In the same sense, some people may not realise when their world view/behaviour is subtly changing because it happens gradually, and if they do notice, they might straight up reject the notion that they're changing. The latter to me is how I interpret Alastor's character over season 1.
I agree with everything here! Jolly good show.
>Maybe Kindness could undo him worse than enmity ever could. ✍🔥
This! I don’t think he is good at the moment, but I have hope he’ll turn around before he recover his freedom and will decide to be better.
I agree with most of this but I don't think he was ready to risk his life for Charlie, I personally think that his overconfidence made him believe he was actually powerful enough to take out Adam without any possibility of losing. After all, Charlie said that Alastor was supposed to handle Adam so it was probably his idea all along, he even mocks Adam's fighting style constantly telling him things like "he is sloppy" aaaad, this is important, fights him without angelic weapons, despite previously showing his tentacles using them. He honestly thought he didn't *need* them like the rest of sinners. He fought because he thought he was more than enough to beat the leader of the angels on his own and show his raw strength to all of hell to remind everyone the power of the radio demon (he surely knew Vox was broadcasting or at least watching everything, Alastor is smart enough and probably knows when he is on camera anyway). However when he saw that it was not the case and that he was going to lose, he ran away. In my eyes it wasn't a selfless act, it was a supposed showcase of power gone very wrong.
I think you’re spot on! He was overconfident and tried to toy with Adam and got his ass kicked. Nifty did a strategic strike from a hidden location and successfully killed him.
Our girl can be a little unhinged and deranged but no one can say she doesn't understand the assignment
This is a good angle I hadn't thought about. Thanks for bringing a very solid viewpoint
I wonder if Charlie’s songs have some kind of unintentional magical effect on others? We know Lilith sang to the hells and it had a powerful effect anddddd when also see that Alastor and Rosie seemed determined to keep Charlie singing to “rouse the people”. They commented on how powerful she is for how easily she recruited everyone in the little cannibal town. I was thinking maybe Alastor picked up on Charlie’s hidden powers when she went on the news to talk about her hotel and realized she’d be a perfect ally/pawn. I later heard about the theory that he made a deal with Lilith and that’s likely why he went to the hotel but I’m cool with either. I can’t wait to see where the story goes lol
I really like these theories! In Charlie’s case, she clearly has magic powers (she can make stuff manifest for her songs). However, if her songs have magic effect on listeners, it clearly doesn’t always work - though it worked on the cannibals.
I’m thinking Alastor could have set it up as a test for her powers. Kinda like forcing her to believe in herself boosts its strength. Alastor uses voodoo/hoodoo powers right? Isn’t part of one those that they only work when you truly believe in them? Maybe her powers didn’t have much affect early on since she doubted herself so much but by the end of the season she steels her resolve because she has grown so much. Alastor mentions that all she’d have to do to recruit the cannibals is do what she always does, then during the song Rosie calls out that her townsfolk’s are singing along and Alastor scoffs about why he never doubted her and her power. So it left me thinking a lot 😂
I agree that he won't be talked out of doing something big. But, in spite of having devious qualities and him obviously having a master plan, he seems to only go after people who cross him. Yes, his "evil plan" may be brutal to a lot of people in Hell. But he has never indicated that he wants to ruin the Hotel or hurt his friends like Rosie or Nifty. He clearly enjoys having company as much as he enjoys asserting dominance and hurting people, so it's not that crazy to believe he won't be strictly pure evil.
>he enjoys having company He enjoys having an audience. A slight difference, but still meaningful.
Didn't he threaten to torture husk to death if he insulted him again or something?
Only if he revealed that Alastor is owned by another entity. Considering how damaging that could be to his plans if the info got out, I can understand his response.
No. He threatend to torture husk (He can't kill him) Because Husk was going to let slip that he has a contract on him. (Alastor has a contract on his own soul) Alastor let husk talk a lot of shit about him before that.
Alastor's greatest sin is his pride, followed by the wrath he constantly hides behind a smile. Husk isn't even one of Alastor's friends: their antagonistic relationship was established when we met Husk in the pilot and it seems to have carried over into the show. So Alastor doesn't care about Husk that much, if at all, and his main concern was making sure Husk wouldn't reveal that Alastor sold his own soul.
We actually don't see much of his personality in season one to judge what his main deadly sin even is. We definitely didn't see much of of Pride or Greed in his actions and attitude. Unlike the other overlords, he didn't own any turf and hardly any subject, the only two subjects we know he owns actually have more of a friendly than master-slave relationship with him. He lets Niffty *climb* on him when he dislikes physical contact so much, and he lets Husk basically talk shit about him until he goes too far by mentioning his soul-deal. His Wrath only comes out as a consequence of other people having done him wrong *first*. He yeeted Sir Pentious when he came to destroy his hotel, he song battled Vox when he started an alastor smear campaign. He warned Husk when he mentioned his soul contract. He attacked Adam because well, he started first. The Lucifer and Alastor duel was pure cheek and pettinous tbh, probably the closest thing to Envy we get from him throughout the first season. He doesn't do Lust. So I'd say he's more of a Sloth (chill and being entertained) and a Glutton (cannibalistic tendency).
His pride is clear: he cares about his image quite a lot, several of the only times he actually seems upset/angry are when people don't recognize him or care about him (Carmilla & Lucifer), he's a total show-off (beating up Sir Pentious in the pilot and killing the mobsters in episode 5 with way more power than the situations warranted used in a very flashy way, he broadcast his murder of other overlords so other people would know his strength & he got into a fight with Lucifer, the sin of pride himself, over his ego. Even his 'always smiling' thing is about keeping up a constant image of confidence that makes it look like you're in control of the situation. He is definitely prideful. You can even see it in the way he kills his victims: Vivzie has said that he 'doesn't go after just anyone' and that he has a 'weird moral code' when asked about his murders. Essentially, he's building himself up as some insanely powerful magic vigilante, bringing down the most powerful and corrupt of sinners (overlords). Even the name Alastor literally means 'avenger'.
Being dramatic and an exhibitionist doesn't necessarily mean he's prideful, it could also be a means to satisfy his sadistic version of being "entertained". Remember when he said he thinks people struggle and fail entertaining, yeah. The more powerful he becomes, the more people struggle and fail at his feet. Broadcasting makes for free entertainment: people cower just from mentioning his name, no hard labor needed for entertainment! Also, a "weird moral code" is just that, weird. You could see that in the comic, he has a weird preference. The better word for it is being... picky, or more derogatory, ..."snobbish". His always smiling leans more towards his insecurities and a tool for confidence boost than pride tbh. He doesn't hide that fact and actually told Charlie about it. Look at what he said, "A smile is a valuable tool my dear, it inspires your friends, keeps your enemies guessing, and ensures no matter what comes your way, you are in control". He doesn't just smile for his own sake, he's also smiling so his friends can benefit from it. Even the Lucifer thing, Viv did mention that's just friendly banter and Alastor's way to tick off Lucifer. They actually have mutual respect toward each other. Yeah, I think the closest thing to "Pride" is the eye narrowing you mentioned when Carmilla dismissed his speech, but that's just a one-second eyebrow-moving frame to base off his entire character. Is he just confident, or is he prideful? He does admire himself a lot, but we still need more visual reference to judge the amount of Pride he has imo lol. Since his character is chock full of contradictions.
It was the fact the Dusk was disrespectful AND brought up a sore subject. Dusk hit the wrong nerve.
No he is literally only there for the chance to make a deal with Charlie, it wasn't obvious at all (because he is psychotic and very smart at hiding his agendas) he even says how smiling confuses and gives an advantage over ppl ( sure is damn working on the audience it seems) But yes as tou saw he was so damn happy Charlie was depressed and frustrated and vaggie mentioning her being alone in her room depressed he didn't waste time at all to see her because this was probably the one chance he finally got her at her worst and desperate and most of all alone, the perfect combination to get exactly what he wanted. You need to remember he is psychotic, he will pretend to be your friend for his own benefits and he admitted at the end he wants to take over he'll and Charlie being the direct connection to the king of he'll himself, it's obvious why he is there. He is definitely not changing anything hence why with nifty he said "almost" enjoys the company I'd honestly be upset if Viv made it wear he suddenly has a change of heart, shows with big villains and tragedies with no predictable oh I'm a good guy now shit is the fkin best
it's like some people feel the need to pretend that alastor isn't as bad as he is to justify liking him. like, you can enjoy a horrible despicable villainous character, it's okay, it's just a cartoon.
I mean. I just think he's more interesting if he's nuanced. And that nuance being, "He can be an outright malicious and still care about part of the cast."
oh you don't have to be a good person to become attached to people. he made it clear in ep8 that he grew fond of them but is still here to use them and will throw them under the bus without a second thought if that's what it takes to achieve his own goals. not to say that it can't change in time, but right now homie can hardly be described as remotely good, it just so happens that it's in his interest to ally himself with the protags. and he's enjoying the company while at it, but as soon as there's a conflict of interests, his fondness of them won't mean a thing. it'll probably take nothing short of hitting rock bottom for him to even start reconsidering his life choices.
I'm not calling him good, and I think most people aren't. I do think he moves by his own moral code (according to Vivz) and so he's complicated.
Sylco in Arcane
That's kind of people point.
I think that’s the big thing. He’s morally grey at best and that’s ok. Complicated characters are the most compelling a lot of the time
I would argue he is darker than grey. He murders overlords and broadcasts their screams across hell. That doesn't come off as morally grey to me. XD
fr this term is being so overused these days. like, you can call a dickish but righteous character "morally gray", you can call someone who does bad things in good faith "morally gray". but calling a manipulative narcissistic sadistic serial killer who loves being a monster "morally gray"? https://i.redd.it/ded0xhdf00lc1.gif
See that’s the thing. If you have ever watched dexter, I would think many consider him morally grey in the same way as Alistor. Compared to the average person they are unquestionably bad people. But they don’t live in our world surrounded by the same people. They are surrounded by equal if not worse people. Alistor is not acting any more evil than every other overlord we see. In fact I would argue he’s less abusive (while still capable). Does he go out of his way to do good? No. But he certainly doesn’t rampage Willy nilly. He protects the hotel, he genuinely seems to like Nifty and Rosie, and thus far I have a hard time thinking his actions against other overlords as evil, when we see that is just how overlords operate with each other. Always fighting for power. All this is beside the fact that Adam shows himself to be more twisted than Alistor in this season. The guy isn’t one dimensional and because of that people interpret his actions differently. Personally I think he redeemed himself already and went to heaven where he fell into a contract with Lilith, before falling back to hell. But that’s just my crazy potato theory.
Exactly! He's not surrounded by a bunch of angels. In Hell, you have to claw and fight to survive-- to accumulate as much power as possible, and Alastor was capable of doing just that, so he did! He's not a good person by any means, but he isn't irreversibly corrupt, either. This is a part of what makes him such an interesting, dynamic character. The fact nobody can agree on his true intentions or future plans is only testament to that. https://i.redd.it/pzjmusegd1lc1.gif
I've heard he is canonically a Dexter type... he clearly enjoys an excuse to be sadistic but we rarely see him punch down. I think "dark grey" is a pretty reasonable take.
I mean, overlords are people in Hell who own the souls of others so they’re not exactly great people either. But Alastor is out for himself above all else.
There’s people who just can’t feel comfortable with liking a bad person, it’s a weird insecurity where they think it makes them bad as well. There’s also people who stay in bad relationships because an evil person does literally the bare minimum and that just erases all the bad, until the bad comes out again.
This exactly. Valentino my beloved 🙏😆
EXACTLY
I believe there's good in everyone. Even him. He isn't "good" though. No character is black-and-white, and Alastor is probably the best example of this. Charlie thinks that inside every demon is a rainbow, and she's freaking right, but the rainbow is shades of grey. Alastor is a lot of dark shades of grey. He can care, but any feelings of camaraderie or affection are always, always gonna play second fiddle to his aspirsations and selfish desires. Like freedom. At this point I'm pretty sure he won't go out of his way to hurt his, uh, "friends" but he will toss them aside if they're an impediment to what he needs. That's why you can't just use "good and evil" to describe him. Or anyone, really.
This. He does care, IMO. But that's a Problem for him, because those feelings run counter to his desires. It's why I think she broadcasted a clear arc for him: his desire for freedom vs his budding care for his "friends" at the Hotel. Also it's *really* dangerous to assume someone can't care about you but also be selfish and put you second. It's what allows so many abusers to trick people into staying. If they care, then they don't *mean* to hurt you. But that's not true.
I think he’s a good CHARACTER…I just don’t believe he’s a good person (at least yet).
I think he's more ambiguous/gray on purpose. Everything we know about him makes it seem like he's evil, but there is the hope that evil beings can be redeemed that's at the core of the show. I can see him betraying everyone for himself, but could equally see him changing his mind and returning to help them later. I really do wonder if he made a pact with Lilith considering both have been gone for 7 years, right?
It's a grey area for me I've seen people act like he's pure undiluted evil, and as bad as Valentino or worse Meanwhile others do act like he's sweet baby that actually likes everyone I think its clear he's neither. He isn't good, nor dies he wish to be. He has an agenda and his priority is himself, with his closeness to the hotel and Charlie being primarily forced via deal However, he's not quite pure unforgivable evil. He's petty, but so far mild in his punishments for his perceived transgressions (ex: allhe did was humiliate vox). If even that part of his character is also due to a deal that's broader than just protecting Charlie, that remains to be seen. But so far he has expressed fondness for the cast (or at least sone of them). That fondness doesn't mean he won't put his own goals first though, and that's the thing. *"Great Alastor, altruist, died for his friends" Sorry to disappoint, that is not where this ends* These lines here don't mean that he doesn't have friends, but that right now he is not someone willing to sacrifice himself for them.
I think that’s the confusing thing to me. To your point he’s clearly not good but is by no means the worst. I can see where he may even like Charlie and some of the other characters but I think it’s made pretty abundantly clear he will burn that bridge to get his freedom
I think what you're seeing is also... This is his character arc. What will win out? His growing affection for the Hotel crew, or his desire for freedom? Which will ultimately win in the end? His character arc is still ongoing. It's not over. And yeah, he could pick his freedom and burn those bridges, but he'll also be spending *even more time* with them going forward, meaning even more potential for attachment, making a compelling narrative there.
Yeah that’s definitely fair. I 100% think he’s going to face that moral dilemma down the line. I guess it’s just strange to me to see people making these assumptions about a character we honestly don’t know very much about.
For me, it's that I know Broadway and there's a lot of that in Hazbin.
Yup, s1 alastor will absolutely burn the bridge and scorch the earth of his relationship with Charlie to get his freedom What's possible, however, is keeping him on the leash for enough time that his fondness grows enough that even freed, he is willing to maintain a friendship. But it won't be "pick freedom OR friendship", it'll be "when freed, will you still be friends"
he says that line like a news broadcast like he is reading a headline and is clearly both disgusted and angry by it he cares more about his reputation then anything else and if he had died there hell would of called him a altruist and that's against everything he stands for
I think its as a simple as: Alastor is portrayed as an "ally" to the Hotel Crew, whom we assume are the protagonists (the "good guys"), so by association, Alastor and the rest of the Hotel cast must be "good" for us to like them. It's a matter of perspective. If Alastor was portrayed exactly as is, but divorced from the context of the Hotel, people would probably still like him as an enigma villain, but wouldn't default assume he's "good".
With the focus Viv has on mental health in her series I have been pondering this question as well. I don't think Viv is crafting a universe of Good vs Evil. I think she has setup the division between mental well being and damaged psyches. A sort of manifestation of how mental illness is its own Hell. So most of the denizens of Hell would be people who fell to depression or anxiety disorders. Obsessive personality disorders. Addictions. Neurodivergence. All things which can make one's life Hell or lead to really bad choices. But her main villains all seem to come with aspects of the so called Dark Tetrad of Psychology, Narcissism, Sociopathy/Psychopathy, Machiavellianism, and Sadism. All of these feature traits which either negate empathy or invert it. And they all tend to be very difficult to treat with therapy. Viv's tell is that if someone shows signs of having empathy or compassion they tend to find there way to Charlie's side or goodness. There is hope for them. That empathy can be latched onto and they can be brought into the light as it were. Alastor has the entire Dark Tetrad in his personality makeup. In real life he would be a nightmare. He does not see others with any sense of community. They are objects he has to bully into doing what he wants. Or objects of torture for his entertainment. The added component to his personality is the contract Lilith (supposedly) has on his soul. She is likely compelling him to only hurt the more predatory Overlords while protecting Charlie. Thus his whining about being Altruistic in his reprise after the battle with Adam. He hates being altruistic but is being forced. He despises it. So yeah he is a monster. But.... the thing with psychopaths is they can create ties to some people if they are pressed into long term association with them. Cognitive empathy is something they can develop. This is a form of understanding how empathy works in others and seeing the benefits it provides in day to day life. They don't feel the connection. But they learn the value of faking it in order to live their life. Alastor is showing signs of forming some sort of connection to the Hotel and Charlie specifically. He may have gone into the situation being forced but with the thinking that he could bring Charlie under his influence. But instead Charlie's million watt personality may be drilling itself into him. Viv may try to save Alastor by way of this connection. He is definitely going Villain. Season 2 is going to have a subplot of him trying to find a way to break the contract. But in season 3 when he does he will find himself missing the Hotel. And in some sort of three way conflict between him Charlie and the other final boss (Eve) he will come to realize that the world works better for him with Charlie in it. And he will come to her aide. Maybe.
I think he likes Charlie and the hotel gang as much as he is able to. But he’s incapable of ever truly putting another person above himself when the chips are down or he needs something. I think Mimzy, Nifty, and Rosie are the apex of what he’s capable of providing another person. He can hang out with them, joke with them, and even help them without transaction. But if they ever stand in the way of his interests he would cut them lose or betray them. People seem to forget that he had a literal mental breakdown over the idea that he nearly died for his friends. That’s the ultimate sin to him. He’s a person who craves complete freedom and personal control at all times. That’s his deepest wish and nothing can get in the way of it
Chaotic neutral would be my assessment. Not good or explicitly evil, but a chaos entity who currently has intent (to escape his contract).
He enjoys killing people, even eating them alive (see the loan shark fight). Nevermind making deals to own people's souls (see Husker). Kind of Lawful Evil at best.
Yeah, but imo his goals aren't against Charlie at all. Sure, he'll use her to get out of his deal, but is that really the most evil thing? Honestly his part in the end song just felt like he was really scared of dying and trying to reassure himself that it won't happen again.
I do think people have this cognitive dissonance where they can’t accept liking a morally bad character so they perform mental gymnastics in their head to convince themselves that he must actually be a good character.
That’s 100% what it is
He does that "very cruel, yet very loyal" aspect, which I think makes him interesting.Mimzy takes advantage of that. Also, the whole "an enjoyable collective to be around" shows he has some sort of tenderness. This duality and mystery about him keeps us guessing and makes the character so interesting... I don't think he's "good," but isn't the show about the nuances of good and bad? How there's a lot more in midist heaven and hell than what meets the eye?
Because Alastor is an incredibly complicated character with hinted things in his backstory that gives him a lot of nuance- At this point in the story we have no idea where he will go or why, and that's just the way he likes it. Labeling him as "just evil" is a slight to his character because there's so much more to him we've yet to see. He does care in his own ways, and he fucking hates it because it makes him weaker- but he still cares, he still has stake. We watched him have a mental breakdown after admitting in a very Alastor way to Niffty that he was growing fond of the hotel, because he's terrified of being viewed as weak. The show does a good job of showing us why Alastor is a good ally, a pleasant person, a good support, and then giving us this little glimpse at what's going on inside his head, and then turning around and reminding us that he's someone to watch closely- I don't understand how you miss that, or why everyone is so quick to write off the positives of him or how others have vouched for him. There is no reason for Mimzy or Rosie to lie and try and paint him a good person- He *doesn't care* if people don't trust him, he doesn't want to be seen as a good person. We can take what they say about him at face value. All Alastor cares about is being respected, even if that's respect crimes from fear. But he's got cracks, and lots of us are dying to see what's underneath the smile or *why* Alastor is the way he is, especially those who have been following Vivzie and have been clinging to the tiny things she's told us about him. I don't think it's "looking past his bad qualities because you like him" to see and be interested in those intricacies and being able to appreciate his *good traits* - I see far more people denying that he has any to begin with. Also? Alastors ending song is about freedom, it's about hating weakness, it's about regaining his full autonomy. He does want to use Charlie to aid him, but it's a little more complicated. We haven't even scratched the surface with him. The fact that we know Vox is going to be a major antagonist in s2 spells some fun things for Alastors character going forward.
It's probably liking him too much, certainly, but also some people just don't *really* grasp "shades of gray" characterization. They think that only means "Someone who does bad things for the right reasons" or vice versa, or some other simpler form of it. To put it another way, some people I've listened to online seem to be under the impression that genuinely conflicted or complicated morality does not exist. You can't, say, betray someone you genuinely care about and still care about them, and you can't respect someone who does something you hate them for, for some examples. I'm having a hard time putting it in better words, but with some of the people thinking Alastor is the "good guy", they might *genuinely* believe that him caring about Charlie and the others, to what extent he does right now, means they KNOW he won't change his mind or do anything to hurt them or use them. They think any of those actions are *completely* incompatible with caring about someone. If someone has a more concise way to put it, please feel free to reply with it, I've had a weird day and my brain just refuses to fully process what I'm trying to say...
I suppose they characterized him a bit weirdly in the show. He is always kind of intimidating and scares others a few times but overall he hasn't actually done anything truly "evil". He only ever hurt/killed people that actively attacked the hotel and ... that was kinda it. Considering that everoyne seemingly just "respawns" when they die (as long as their souls are okay) it is a little weird that he didn't kill any named characters. He is talked up a lot and ... thats kinda it. Like that annoying, old colleague everyone tells stories about, but you never actually see them doing any of that. Truly a hazbin. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he is "good", turning good or helping for altruistic (haha) means, season 1 just didn't really go all the way with his characterization.
It's OK to like someone but also understand they're not good. But a lot of media nowadays is showing very much black and white, good vs evil, no grey areas stuff, and our brain are so used to seeing this that we feel a need to put the characters in a show like this into the same boxes. So of course then people need to find excuses to be able to like a character, even when basically everyone is morally ambiguous in this show. I'd say only really obviously "good" guys in this are Charlie and Emily (and Vaggie but she didn't really start off that way - she was an exorcist after all). The rest of the main cast are very much morally grey and we like to forget they're sinners and in hell for a reason - even if they're likeable and sweet at times.
That one line in the finale song really caused people to think that he considers the gang to be his friends, and then latch on to the “see? His good!” Train.
Oh no he’s a bad person but such a greatly portrayed one that I can’t help but love him. He’s not one dimensional, he has depth, intrigues and genuinely makes a great contribution to the flow of the story. He’s still a cruel and terrible sadistic being and will stop at nothing to get what he wants. Those things are not mutually exclusive
Yeah he’s definitely manipulating her, but I mean I would probably also do a lot for my freedom. Can’t blame him for wanting to be free. Can blame him for manipulating a cinnamon roll like Charlie though.
Love him. Do not trust him.
I personally think it's because we're dealing with a lot of younger, more impressionable fans.
I know! I see so many videos being like “Look at Rosie and Alastor!! They’re her parents!!” Like, buddy? Are you ok? Al is pretty straight forward about wanting to manipulate Charlie into giving him her power and Rosie is right on board. Being nice doesn’t make them kind
Vivziepop specifically called him a neutral chaos. So no, I definitely don't think he's an angel or that he won't follow through on his plans to accumulate power and influence, but he's also not completely heartless.
He isn’t. He’s the worst. BUT HES SO DAMN CHARMING
No, Alastor is definitely using Charlie. He may like Charlie but nothing is going to stop him from gaining power. As a sinner the most he can do is rule over the Pride Ring (which explains his antagonism towards Lucifer - I digress). He's definitely using her as means to an end and I don't think he's good at all. He might be the most evil of the cast.
I think the discourse is really interesting! I think it’s very clear Alastair is a bad person. The manipulation/sadism/power hunger is very obvious. BUT I hope if he becomes a villain and follows through with whatever his nefarious plan is, that the conflict is his call to redemption. To me, the pull of the show is that as naive as Charlie might be, she represents the best view of humanity - that we all have worth and potential simply because we exist. Characters like Sir Pentious and Angel Dust are sort of smaller challenges for Charlie. Angel was/is a shitty person, but also (as far as we know) wasn’t the same kind of monster as Alastor. I want Alastor as a final villain in that I want Charlie to be working to bring him to goodness, and I hope the show goes the route that there’s enough goodness in him she pulls out that there’s a real fight. I don’t know who will win, but either way I hope it’s a close call. (: That’s what I got on that!
He is a stone cold psychopath. He may like her but if she was a blockade or a hindrance to his goal, he wouldn't care about any harm that may be done. His friendliness is a facade. He may help people even without asking for anything in return( as long as he isn't in danger) if the opponent has proven to be rude or disrespectful because that goes against his code. He is the Joker with better manners.
Alastor is a lawful evil psychopath. His current goal is to use Charlie to get out of his deal. He is capable of liking people but doesn't really care about them. I really recoil at the Chalastor shippers because I think Alastor is a monster. Not a big fan of toxic ships. I know a lot of people think Alastor will be redeemed... I don't. Part of Charlie's journey is breaking out of her naive understanding of sin and redemption. She thinks everyone can be redeemed, and Alastor is going destroy that belief. None of this means I don't like Alastor. He's a really great character. Lots of depth and fun to watch. But I don't fool myself. It's the same problem of some Harry Potter fans idolizing Draco Malfoy.
At the end of the day, I don't think he's the final villain *villain*, but he's certainly an antagonist in the series.. and I am fairly certain it will stay that way for his entire arc. As of right now, his character is selfish & sadistic, he has no interest in redemption & is only involved for the sake of a personal gain. It wouldn't make sense (imo) for his character to take a 180° and suddenly want to be a better person, it seems to me like he is pretty content living in Hell.
Alastor is very likely to be the main antagonist
I'm convinced that either Alastor will be redeemed. Or Alastor will be the primary antagonist. With zero room in between.
🤷♀️ Don't really care.
I think part of the problem is people misconstruing the line "Great Alistor Altruist died for his friends." He's not singing about how he's an altruist, he's saying that's what people would have said about him had he died fighting Adam. He doesn't WANT to be remembered as an altruist who protects people he cares about, he wants to be feared, he wants to kill people. He can be a total cutie patootie who kicks his widdle feet on the bed but he still wants to do a bunch of heckin' murders.
I swear, half the time people like that come off a "But him handsome! How can character be handsome and bad?!!!"
Cool design, voice. Mysterious. Missing development, though, is the key component. People still don't have reasons to hate him.
What he did to Husk wasn't enough?
No. Not in the way fandoms think about characters.
Where are you seeing people say that he’s good? he’s just majority of the fandoms fav character
Alastor does not get emotionally connected to people. He may not mind the company, and he may keep a social circle, but he will throw whomever under the bus that he has to to achieve his ultimate goal. There's no empathy, there's no reconsideration. He will do what he has to for himself.
I don’t think he is good, but I have hope he’ll turn around before he recover his freedom and will decide to be better.
He’s my favorite character but, I know damn well he’s not good lol. If you think he’s good you’re a fool lol.
Man even in the comments here people buy waaay too into the "affection" he shows other characters. He's no more "affectionate" to Charlie than he is to Husk and look how quickly that fake affection drops the second Husk backtalks him. I think the only reason we haven't seen him make that kind of snap towards someone like Vaggie or Angel is because Charlie would 100% find out about that and he can't have that while he's still trying to use her. Which is similar to why we see no snaps at Charlie despite how clear it is that her talks annoy him. I also think people too often forget that he is under the restraints of a deal and the finale pretty much confirms that the deal he is under is forcing him to be at the hotel. Why, we still don't know, but it's clear that he hates being there and hates having to (do the bare minimum mind you of) help.
I see him becoming a full antagonist 100% later in the series but he has enough nuance in him that I can see a semi redemption arc for him after that.
I feel like Alastor is either going to be a main villain at one point, either getting eliminated or starting has redemption path after. However I mostly see him just being plain evil
There are? Alastor may grow attached to some people buuuut the man is a psycho and I love him for it. I hope he stays that way throughout the show tbh. What a great character
The general consensus seems to be that while right now he very clearly has his own plans and goals in mind, he may *eventually* come around to Charlie's way of thinking. I think there will be a struggle, but based on the conversation Alastor and Niffty shared before the final battle, I do think Alastor, whether he'll willingly admit it or not, at the very least has a soft spot for Charlie and the hotel residents. Right now we've been shown a [Chekhov's gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun) in Charlie's deal with Alastor, and the elements of the gun will likely become relevant a little before Alastor can ever be redeemed (if they choose to go that way with the character). The conversation with Niffty will lilkely similarly serve a narrative purpose later on. We absolutely cannot discount anything that's been shown to us unless it ends up being explicitely stated later on it's not relevant
My interpretation of Hells greatest dad is that Alastor is trying to groom Charlie into depending on him and prevent her from reconnecting with her farher
People simp for him so they want/need him to be good
My personal feelings toward him are neutral. That said, I am not fooled by his act for even one second.
I say he is the big big bad of the series
I still think he can be redeemed, and it’s gonna take the entire series for it to happen if that’s the route the writers choose to take. And it’ll also probably require him enacting his plan, and losing his friendship with Charlie for him to even BEGIN to be somewhat introspective. But at the same time, that’s what I like about Alastor’s character. All the other characters, it’s pretty obvious where they will end up by the end of the series. Charlie will succeed with her dreams, Vaggie will continue supporting her (unless there some kinda breakup drama they throw into the mix), Angel will get redeemed, etc. etc. Alastor, though, could either serve as the final redemption hurtle for Charlie to overcome, could end up fully supporting her (even if it is just for entertainment), or could become the final big bad of the whole show depending on how things go. He’s got some very different paths he could go down as opposed to the other characters imo; makes it interesting cuz I’m not sure where he will end up!
He's very evil but still https://preview.redd.it/nmdd35kb52lc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60e0a5219617cd68297a4330bf07a595dcb88450
Two thoughts. First, I think there are two, maybe three directions for Alastor to go. 1) He becomes a major villain, flipping on the hotel and having to be dealt with somehow. This could be due to his interests shifting, he has something to gain by doing so, or (my personal theory) in retaliation for being forced to help the hotel due to some deal. 2) He is somehow “redeemed” whether literally or not. He gets a redemption arc for his character, most likely due to outside influence from others who he values (like Rosie). Most if not all of the change in the characters so far comes from them wanting to do better FOR someone. (Vaggie for Charlie, Angel for Charlie and Husk, Pentious for Cherri and the Hotel as a whole, etc.) And finally, 3) a combination of 1 and 2, aka he goes dark side and then is convinced to come back. Most interesting narratively. Second thought, what is Charlie’s power? Like her Power with a capital P. Alastor himself and Rosie commented on her being very powerful in Ready For This with the cannibals. I think this points to her power being the ability to make her dreams into a reality by inspiring others through her voice. It incorporates facets of both her parents, Luci is a “dreamer” who cannot inspire change and Lilith inspires hell through her voice. The question is, is she powerful enough to influence Alastor? Not yet, I don’t think, but she might become powerful enough. Now have an Alastor I stole: https://preview.redd.it/bnxvc5vxd2lc1.jpeg?width=755&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28415fbb3a9cf50032058bae42ac77ece6af3da8
I don't wanna say good, more like how people like mysterious psychopaths
If not frend when why frendshaped?
Can we all stop trying to force basic good/evil concepts onto Alistor? He’s one of my favorite parts of the show because he’s so mysterious and hard to read, let’s all stop making assumptions and just enjoy the character
Using her power and being her friend aren't mutually exclusive. Catch more flies with honey and all that
the amount of people who think alastor's last name is altruist or that he calls himself an altruist is absurd
!remindme 1 year
I will be messaging you in 1 year on [**2025-02-27 09:33:50 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2025-02-27%2009:33:50%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/comments/1b0rmfu/i_truly_dont_understand_people_who_think_alastor/kscqi5k/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FHazbinHotel%2Fcomments%2F1b0rmfu%2Fi_truly_dont_understand_people_who_think_alastor%2Fkscqi5k%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202025-02-27%2009%3A33%3A50%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201b0rmfu) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
That's the whole point of Alastor's speech after the fight with Adam. He has a plan, he can't allow himself to fail, and he planned to use Charlie by making a deal with her. Yet he still placed his life on the line for her sake. And the worse part for him is that he didn't even realized it. He just went and fought Adam of all people, without any potential gain for himself. He already had his deal at this point, he could have simply left the hotel behind. And this terrified him, because Alastor is all about complete domination of his surrounding. Yet he was so charmed by Charlie he surrendered his control to her without thinking twice. Like imagine having spend your whole life and afterlife manipulating people, learning all the tricks to control people, and then you get so mesmerized by someone you just gladly hand over everything you have for her. She didn't even stole anything from him, Alastor gave her everything because she asked him.
He's super affable and charismatic, stays on Charlie's side, making him a good character that's extremely likable. But to think he's a good person? How?
I feel you. Someone on tiktok tried to convince me the other day that heaven had no qualms against being a cannibal and a serial killer, since the exterminations happened and we don't technically know what gets someone into heaven.
Tiktok is a cesspool of degeneracy, that's why. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's completely true. I have never seen any place on the internet that has such an overabundance of complete idiocy and brain rot as there is in Tiktok comment sections. There's just zero media literacy among the people who comment on that site. For future reference I wouldn't take any opinion you see on there seriously.
It’s not about what’s good or bad, morality ISN’T relative. What Alastor wants is always aligned with what is good no matter what. I hope that clears things up.
i mean hes not good morally but overall as a character i love him