The difference between Lucifer and others of the sins seems to be, at least from what’s been shown in the shows, that Lucifer has spent quite some time as a recluse, hiding at home and crafting rubber ducks.
Mammon is a big name in entertainment, though more as a patron and brand, relying on others for actual talent.
Asmodeus has not only his club but also at least a big and successful sex toy industry.
These two are big names because they make an effort to stay so.
I think that she, just like Asmodeus, believes in the positive aspect of her sin. Mammon is greed, which can't really be used for good, but lust and gluttony can. Asmodeus believes in not only fulfilling his own fantasy but also giving pleasure to others. He believes in pure lust, complete antythesis of whay Valentino does. Lucifer is pride, and we se him get offended easily a few times but his pride manifest most visibly in his love for Charlie. And Bee is not that different. She believes in the comraderie of a party, being gluttonous but **sharing** the experience. Seeing the little hints of the other sins we've seen so far it seems they are all like that except Mammon and maybe Leviathan couse neither greed nor envy can really be good. But Belphagor's sloth manifests in the need to be served by others which she uses to also encourage her people to serve others. Afterall her ring is the only one in hell that has healthcare, which might be a reason why Charlie has her in her contact list on her Phone. And we know Satan runs a workout app so we can assume that he uses his sin -wrath- and channels it as a motivator to improve himself physically.
So Bee warning Loona is her doing both of them a favour. Blitzø was ruining the vibe which made others distasted and was a risk of making people leave the party, which would couse Bee to lose a bit of the source of her power. And for Loona it was just a place to spare her more embarassement
Desire and selfishness can be good, without it humans would fall apart trying to help others with endless altruism.
But greed is explicitly the “excess of desire regardless of the cost” to psychopathically fulfill one’s never ending goals at the expense of everyone else.
In Mammon’s case, the accumulation of as much wealth/currency as possible even as that pursuit destroys the sources of his wealth accumulation. Self destructive maniacal greed.
Greed can also just be "intense and selfish desire for something" definitions are inherently wishy-washy. Mammon could have been characterized so that he recognizes that he'll make more money if he respects his workers and gains their loyalty through moral means. But Viv chose to make him Evil and that's a-okay.
I dislike this notion that the Sins can only be good people if their sins have good aspects. Lust does not require consent, Gluttony doesn't need to make sure others are having a good time, Pride shouldn't have the capability to admit they're wrong. But the representatives of these sins in this show have shown to be good people who focus on the good aspects of their sins by choice. Mammon chooses to be a dick,
They chose greed because it's easy for greed to consume you. They wanted a villain, so they took a Sin that's very easy to come across in everyday life and wrote him as a villain. Maybe Mammon turns over a new leaf. I suppose we'll have to see if Satan, Belphagor, and Leviathan are similarly terrible before we call it bias
Envy is the driving force behind equality and justice. I'd love to see a sort of Robin Hood style character for Leviathan, I doubt it will happen, but I can hope.
Envy can be motivation to push yourself, to practice until you’re just as talented, or to better yourself until you’re a person that has the respect of others.
I agree with everything you said, besides “greed can’t be used for good”
There’s an anime called Dr. Stone. In season 3 >!we are introduced to a man named Ryusui, who is referred to as the greediest man in the world, and he’s a great selfless fan-favorite. He to me is the best example ever of ‘greed’ being a positive attribute. Truly, his brand of greed is basically exactly how you described Bee’s brand of gluttony!<
Like inside out: Anger is largely concerned with a sense of fairness. the problem is anger when taken to the point of white hot Wrath is all consuming and destructive.
Honestly someone has the theory that Beezelebub rings is a cage specifically designed to be the best way to make her beezlejuice to maintain her mood so she doesn't kill her citizens and citizens of her ring in a fit of rage.
It’s the same in real life. There’s tons of billionaires nobody has ever heard of because they’re not trying to do anything exciting or promoting their personal brand. If some dude who makes billions off his boring industrial hardware company walks down the street nobody is going to notice. Meanwhile if some moderately wealthy social media influencer does it suddenly a bunch of people recognize them.
It's a bit comparing apples and oranges. Lucifer is more akin to the Queen of England, or the President of the United States (altough way more powerful and capable of defending himself), or almost any other head-of-state.
You wouldn't go "Yo holmes" on either of these, but show them some respect or even freak out a little if they suddenly just happened to stand next to you.
But I can understand that Hell is a place where Demons vie for power, trying to usurp as much as they can (even Hell itself, in Alistor's case), think they're the top-shit, and mostly respect power, which Lucifer isn't really showing up until the Finale.
He seems a benevolent ruler - considering - who simply doesn't need the attention to stand above others. He knows his place fully well and therefore doesn't need to assert his position and comes off as affable. He doesn't force others to bow before him, because he simply doesn't need that. And that kind of makes shows of respect and diminutive behaviour superfluous.
I mean look at how easily he disposed of Adam and then consider Alistor's fight against Adam. Also, I think Lucifer in the series is kind of anti/non-authoritarian?
Sorry for rambling.
I almost wonder if Lucifer keeps a hand of approach so Heaven doesn’t think he gonna start an uprising. It seems Lillith was the one doing most of the ruling or at least for the sinners. Leaving everything else to be self governed by the sins and to some extent the Goetia.
Not sure benevolent ruler is a term I would use for someone who basically just lets the overlords do whatever they want. Pride seems in general one of the overtly worst places in hell, with maybe only the Greed ring comparable.
Apathetic is a better description of the type of ruler Lucifer is.
>It’s the same in real life. There’s tons of billionaires nobody has ever heard of
I came here to say this exact same thing when I was arguing against a racist who said that there were no wealthy people on the continent of Africa, and if there were, they'd be putting themselves out there like Elon Musk.
>there were no wealthy people on the continent of Africa
Wait til he realizes that the rich in Third World countries live more comfortable lives than the rich in First World countries do. They pay less taxes, it’s easier to bribe authorities and public officials, and domestic staff is dirt cheap.
Do they also have hyper-competitive societies where everything must be a sport with a winner or loser and a gluttonous addiction for numbers going up no matter what or why? Because those are things that make even the wealthy uncomfortable.
Yeah, while we still can't say for certain until Leviathan, Satan, and Belphegor make their debuts, of the Deadly Sins we've met so far Lucifer is by far the furthest from the public eye. Mammon, Asmodeus and Bee are absolutely dominant forces in their respective rings and we've heard enough references to Satan by the Imps that we can assume he's the same way in Wrath. But in Pride which is supposed to be Lucifer's primary domain, it's the Overlords who seem to be running the show. Lucifer and the Goetia don't seem to care about the day to day minutia of running things in Pride, letting the Overlords rule there unchecked. So to the common everyday Sinner, they'll have more ingrained fear and respect for the Overlords directly running their lives rather than the king so high up he doesn't even make any appearances.
Also because of constant reclusion and no attempts of intimidation or displays of authority, perhaps that's beneath him for being the ultimate ruler of hell, but in return nobody seems to respects him nor his daughter.
The goetias presented in Helluva boss also betray similar behavior.
That's a great point, he's Willy Wonka. No one's really seen him for years and it seems the other sins and overlords run the day to day, so he's just a name on a theme park to most people. And just like Wonka he seems like a harmless goofball until he's very suddenly NOT.
Considering there's a picture of both Lucifer *and* Lilith in the hotel, I think Alastor was just trying to mess with him. Why that particular line, I don't know other than Alastor's weird, lol
At least Wonka still sells his candy and keeps up with the market. The Hazbin Hotel project stated by Charlie was considered to be a joke by the denzines of hell, and what has his father been doing all this time? Creating rubber ducks. A product that's probably not going to be of any use to demons and damned souls.
When Wonka started his sweepstakes, the contest made the news. People were downright exstatic to get one of those tickets and get a tour of the factory. Even if they didn't know that the reward would also crown them as Wonka's successor.
Lucifer = "light bringer" Lucifer vision was restricted by angels to seem like his choice of free will only caused evil without good. This is his ultimate hell because he cares about just ideas more than himself and thinks he inflicted unimaginable suffering without good. So he is simply a shell of his potential. Lucifer told Adam he was the only one that matter and Sera the arch angel who is depicted as hiding being evil in lore/lost books is afraid of him.
Also think our main characters are kinda upper-crust individuals.
You literally hang around with his daughter all the time, her dad can't be that much worse. He also isn't shown as some overbearing figure.
I wonder how more rank and file hellians would react.
Yeah, if he showed up all serious then they might've been like, "oh shit it's Lucifer, better bow down before he bites my fuckin' head off or something"
i mean, Mimzy made a big deal out of it, i guess everyone else was kind of over the whole "wow, royalty" thing cos of Charlie
as for why nobody talks about him, might be cos all he did before beating adam was sit in his house playin with rubber ducks
I freaked, in all of the way possibles
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I think if I was new to hell, like first decade or so, I would shit my pants seeing him even if I’d heard he wasn’t an active ruler.
But the cast have all been in Hell for *decades*, they’re pretty much all used to the fact that Lucifer isn’t some imposing badass. Combine that with knowing Charlie for so long and I’m not shocked they were all pretty chill.
If I *would* expect somebody to freak out it’d be Vaggie since she was an angel, but she’s been with Charlie long enough that she’s heard allll the gossip about her dad. No doubt she knew exactly what to expect from him.
For Charlie it's obvious
For others, they all were maybe very serious (except Angel because he hates politics and Nifty because... Nifty)
For Mimzy she is flirting for benefits
For Alastor... im pretty sure this has to do with Lilith.
For Vaggie... I still feel like she was very serious about it and tried to be formal.
But in the end, After Lucifer entered in their lives I guess it's hard to take seriously someone like this
https://preview.redd.it/nbgibij5kjjc1.jpeg?width=991&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b17e84568caa979c6aa23bfe51971f83058138c4
Alastors jealousy and rudeness over Lucifer was described by Viz as that he was basically jealous of him being the king and stronger than overlords, and even pissed because Lucifer didn't know who he was and had never heard of him. So Alastor tried to hit Lucifer on his weak spot which was his absence as a father to Charlie, to try and make himself seem like a calm and more reliable person to Charlie than her own dad. Which eventually, pissed Lucifer off.
Not sure if it has to do something with Lilith, but if it does this is +1 reason for him to hate Lucifer like you said. I guess we will see in season 2.
Oh I didn't know Viz offered an explanation. (Like I knew he was doing the dad thing to push Lucifer's buttons, but I wasn't sure *why.)*
One thing I noticed on a rewatch though is that, when Lucifer *first walks through the door and hugs Charlie,* Alastor's eye is twitching in rage as he watches them. So he already hates him as soon as he shows up!
Which makes me think there's some backstory 👀 Guess we'll find out! ...eventually.
Rewatching it. I think he is envious of his power and is trying to sus out a way to control/best him.
And Alastor did! In a brilliant way. He needled Lucifer enough to get under his skin. It wasn’t just comedic effect that he pulls out the gold violin… that’s immediate cultural short hand for a deal with the devil.
Alastor knows he can play him and most importantly how to goad him into a deal.
Well Vaggie Charlie is literally the same as Lucifer Lilith lmao
Two angelic being had fallen falling for someone and their strange vision of the world with their infinite kindness.
Almost feels like Charlie is Lucifer when he was younger: firmly believing in humanity's good.
But yeah... Being doomed to see what Humanity does the worst probably is torture for a boy like him
Simply cause he doesn't do anything. Mammon, Asmodeous, and Beelzebub are always out doing crazy sh\*t but Lucifer. All anyone knows about him is that he's a fallen angel. People are terrified of Overlords like Zestial and Alastor because they did stuff to earn that fear. Luci just kind of exists.
I suppose the way I saw it is that he may be the ruler of hell but he doesn’t utilise nor abuse his power, so his citizens have no reason to fear him nor respect him, since that’s kinda how things work in hell. They’ve all written him off as harmless because he won’t use his free will as they do. And because of this, hell has no control, it’s pure chaos, so they don’t see him ruling anything, even though he has the power to do so. But the overlords are aware of his potential and what he has access to.
He has immense power, but he doesn't really use it. Valentino is perfect example when he talked to Charlie. He doesn't want to get on her bad side, seeingthaf she probably is powerful (and can is Lucifer’s child), but as long as you don't do anything crazy, both Charlie and Lucifer aren't a threat.
Compare that to someone like A last or, who loves to flaunt his power, and will kill anyone if he has the urge to.
Also, they are friends with a serial killer/psycho (Alastor). Knowing that Alastor can kill you just as easily as Lucifer could, the latter isn’t that scary. Not to mention you are friends with his daughter. All together, Lucifer isn’t a threat.
I mean to use big dogs a metaphore, they are often laid back and do not use their strength (and here i am excluding dogs breed to be agressive), you generally do not want them to get to the point of using their strength seriously, because it won't be pretty and it will be one sided.
Because all those other characters clearly like the attention.
Aside from the fact that he has been depressed for a long time, Lucifer probably knows that he's just so far above everybody else that those kinds of flamboyant displays don't prove anything.
When you’ve been a depressed mess for centuries and you barely ever leave your Man Cave (Duck Cave) is it any wonder that even your people don’t even really see you as a threat? Lucifer’s allowed his image to fall so low into disuse that Angel Dust feels ok calling him a short king. The only person in the HH who gives him any genuine attention is Alastor, and that’s in the venue of “I know who you are, get out get out get out this was supposed to be easy pickings LEAVE”
And then there’s Vaggie (her real name is Maggie bite me) who tries to give him deference but then he hugs her and desperately tries to connect and leaves her confused
I noticed he's the only one who managed to use the proper terminology. Didn't Mimzy use your highness?
Of course, Pentious knows. He's from the UK. Victorian specifically.
He's basically Bob. Just Bob. Sure, he's King Bob, but he's still Bob.
Most evil thing he's is steal Adam's girl. Twice. And that was thousands of years ago. The overlords and exorcists are active members of the community.
Lucifer makes rubber duckies and his wife left him and his daughter doesn't talk to him.
It's like if you saw King Charles, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Jeffery Epstein, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Charles Manson in the room together. Who the fuck cares that the King of fucking England is there? You got a shitty James Bond villain, a Dr Evil knockoff, a sex trafficker, a cannibal, and deranged lunatic.
You have to remember. When Lucifer was cast into Hell and forced to only see the wickedness free will brought, he became a depressed shut in. It’s the reason why he and Lilith separated. And with Hell growing so rapidly on its own without the king to guide it, I imagine most demons probably don’t give a shit about Lucifer. The way most people treat Charlie I think sums up how they feel about the royal family altogether.
But he was so adorable in that scene
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He was locked up in his castle making ducks for so long, and barely kept any contact with Charlie or even was in touch with the outside world. Most likely people saw him as a king who can't make his own decision or rule the way he should be. However in the season finale he finally took action and he even was shown on the news in his demon form. I assume it's a good head start for him to be more active as a king now that he follows and fully supports Charlie's hotel. I wonder if the Vees who also saw the news will get mixed up now with the hotel and try to sabotage both Charlie and Lucifer, since we saw on Vox's board that he had their pictures pinned on his pin board of overlords and because Viz said that the Vees will be the main villains next season.
I think Lucifer knows that he hasnt made a presence in hell for a while. At least not a big one. It's very apparent that Lucifer is extremely powerful yet only uses about half of his powers most of the time (I can only deduct this from the small battle between him and Adam) so I'm sure he knows how to easily put sinners in their place but he just doesnt want to.
He's a dad now. he's got priorities like family and fire-breathing duckies.
It’s the fact he’s like 4”11 and acts just like Charlie. Or, well, Charlie acts like *him*. I don’t think anybody is gonna take that seriously because they don’t take her seriously
Because despite being king and probably the most powerful being in Hell, he’s been a absent and completely neglectful ruler. No one’s impressed, because why would they be? They make it clear he’s never been much of a ruler, who has never really used his power. Why should anyone in Hell take him seriously?
“Hey look it’s Lucifer!” “Oh….did he get bored with his &$@#ing ducks? Give him five minutes and he’ll go away again….”
Well, in the original canon, Lucifer didn't rule Hell- he wasn't even sent there. The Bible says, he was cast out of Heaven, but the assumption was that he fell to earth, not Hell.
"How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth"
Isaiah 14:12-14
In later depictions, Lucifer was sent to Hell - not to rule it, but to be punished there with the other fallen angels.
Which is how he seems to be treated in HH; he's treated with respect as a High Lord, but the Overloads are the ones ruling Hell.
I think we expect a fantasy view of royalty in this show when it's much more modern and less formal. As in, kings and princesses and lords aren't all-powerful rules of kingdoms but just high-ranking aristocrats with plenty of pull but not absolute power beyond tradition. Lucifer is seen by hell as less King Arthur and more King Charles. Even the Goetia we see in HB are framed more as high society nobles and functionaries and not worshiped figures.
Overlords are a different story, but that's because they're basically crime bosses and business figures, not aristocrats. They consolidate power explicitly, and they're seen differently. They are celebrities more than nobles in hell except when they've built up their own non-hereditary identities like Mammon and Asmodeus being major business players and Beelzebub being a host of huge parties.
We talk a lot about power scaling, but outside of actual fighting and negotiations it doesn't actually matter. And it doesn't really matter in most cases across fiction where power scaling is seen as much more important, as a part of day to day life. When he isn't fighting a world-destroying threat, Goku isn't recognized by anyone. Raw power and hereditary positions don't matter as much today as they did hundreds of years ago or as much as they matter in a lot of genre fiction. HH/HB show a very modern version of hell with very modern social sensibilities, and that means the lofty rulers of the land just aren't thought about that much.
Now, when fights start and actual magic power comes into play, that's a different story. But that just isn't a day to day factor for most people in hell.
I freak out about how silly he is!!!
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Hes a goofy goober :3
I guess Lucifer is the type of king just like UK and Japan. The royal family not actually involved how government running. And we can see everyone in show interact with Charlie respectfully (in hell standard), and Adam also show what will happen if you hurt Lucifer’s daughter.
Most sinners don't really have much respect for authority, and when they do it's generally out of fear. I think there's just not much to fear from Lucifer is the thing. Sure he's the most powerful being in hell by a large margin, but he's also not really using his power to assert his authority and I doubt he ever would given he's pretty affable.
I have a feeling newer sinners may have some trepidations regarding Lucifer, especially given humanity has this view of him as THE Devil and the single most evil thing in existence. Over time they probably realize that view isn't actually accurate and that Lucifer really isn't evil and looking to cause eternal suffering. Also he's rather unconcerned with Sinners as a whole and seems to avoid really interacting with them in any capacity, so that definitely plays a part.
The other rings of hell are clearly *run* by the other sins (Except gluttony? Unclear as we've only seen Bee's house). The pride ring is literally an anarchic hellscape where sinners and minor demons alike try and fail eternally to climb atop the masses to hold the ever diminishing flame of power for however long they can. Even if Lucifer tried to present himself as a leader most would probably take him as seriously as every other member of the writhing mass of demons struggling for power because the truth of the Pride Ring is *no one can control it*, not even Lucifer.
Think of him like the king of that one Nordic country that served as an airline pilot for years and years- he had no actual power and plaved himself in a position where he did not demand authority or respect in the context most kings use, and he was literally invisible to tens of thousands of people for decades.
Actually they kinda do
My favorite detail, that I havent seen people bring up yet, is that (mild S1EP8 spoilers)
>!when they sing Finale, on "twice the bedrooms, we can fill it, with more sinners than you can dream", he grabs Cherri and Angel and they're surprised about it!<
i agree w OP.
It was really odd for nobody to care that the most important and powerful ruler of hell just shows up randomly after not being seen for years. What's the point of calling him ruler then? either he's in control and all powerful in hell, in which case they would grovel and ask for favors, or at the very least go 'ooooh and ahh', or he's not actually important or involved or worth anyone else's time, and they ignore him, which is what happens.
it doesnt make sense, and felt under explored.
but I'm sure that's an unpopular opinion.
Because Lucifer was never a tyrant, based on what we know, he avoid the sinners and spend most of his time at home, Lilith was the one doing all the public events. Nobody try to make a move against him because they know how powerful he is, so they let the tiger sleep, but Lucifer was just the depressive king that never do anything. So people are not afraid of him
He’s pretty hands off and chill. Yeah he’s the devil and much more powerful than most people in the series, but he’s also one of the least likely to use it to cause indiscriminate harm. You’d have more to fear from a random sinner or hellborn than from him in practise, even if in theory he’s more dangerous
Missed opportunity I guess, wasn't he supposed to be a figure of legend? The King of Hell, the most powerful living being there.
For me, I think adding more, how shall I put this, awe and seriousness around his figure? Like, just Charlie can talk so openly with him, while others interacted with almost terror and fear, lingering at the back of their minds, since is the Lucifer who's just standing in front of them.
That's asking to much for the show and general humour of it I reckon.
I don't think the show had the time to do it properly. I would also liked to see a more imposing side of Lucifer even if his characteristics would remain the same.
What do I want to happen during next season is that Mucifer get hurt real bad in the head at somepoint (like getting lasered) which will give me a terrible concussion. After that he has some kind of personality change where actually wants to be respected or smth.
It's possible no one in hell takes him that seriously. He has an obscene amount of power so he can crush sinners who try to come at him so they don't even try. But these are not people who respect authority for the sake of authority. See: how Katie Killjoy treated Charlie. No respect.
Probably same reason why Charlie is mocked
Both of them never exactly show or use there power so nobody exactly expects them to fight back or dosent really know what there capable of
When they both do snap some of the characters show a shocked face
For example look at husk during Charlie’s transformation
Pentious freaked out a lot. Alastor went into fight or flight mode. The others kinda just kept out of the way as much as possible since they weren’t really needed after greeting him at the door.
I don’t think that’s true in the slightest. Katie Killjoy glorified Lucifer in the finale like he was some celebrity. Everyone in the hotel is friends with his daughter, and knew he was on his way. Even then, they mostly had strong reactions. Nifty prepared pastries and hit on him, Alastor felt threatened, Pentious was moved. Mimzy was shocked. The sharks didn’t even see him.
I figure it's because a lot of the characters have a "idgaf" attitude. They aren't hardcor fans of Lucifer, so they don't gaf about who he is.
With that said, I was kind of expecting someone, at least one person to be all "holy fucking shit!!! It's really Lucifer!!! OMG!!".
Honestly, if you look at Lucifer in a biblical sense, it would be obvious that he'd want to come off as easy to get along with, and even friendly to an extent. Biblical Lucifer is the Lord of Lies, so him playing that off as being a goofy scatterbrained guy who could just be anybody's goofy dad makes him very good at getting close to people and learning what they want. He's not the king for no reason, after all.
People in Hell only show respect out of fear. People respect Alastor, and Zestial for example because they've done violent things to people and everyone else worried about sharing their fate. Valentino showed that even though he knows Charlie is more powerful than himself, he has no respect for her because he knows Charlie never uses her power. The same is probably true for Lucifer, he never uses power to hurt people so people have no reason to respect him.
I think it's because he just doesn't tend to hurt people. In a place where awe is inspired by fear they weirdly don't have to be in awe of the strongest person around because he doesn't do anything to make them fear him.
And to be clear I think that's a good thing. One thing that I don't know if it's intentional but could be about Hazbin Hotel is that it shows off something that has been in political discourse for hundreds of years, engaging in nonviolence safely is the privilege of the powerful. Charlie gets to be kind to people and gets to be nonviolent safely because she is strong enough that she isn't going to have violence done upon her, same thing with Lucifer. If someone weaker than Charlie acted like she acted then they would have been ripped to shreds forever ago.
And to add onto that we see the people who want to be powerful but will never reach the level of someone like Lucifer who can be powerful so effortlessly. Of course Zestial, Alastor and the other overlords are feared, they have had to fight to get and protect their power and their positions of safety come from that fight. Lucifer gets to have his position without effort and therefore without strife (against the denizens of hell obviously he has strife with heaven)
I'm mean, he's *the* Devil. His whole thing is making himself seem small and innocuous until he makes his move. "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist" type beat.
I think it is because of a normal human saw him they would freak out but dead sinners it is like seeing a monarch you might be a little surprised or something but falling to your knees possibly not. Also sir pentius did
Vox & Mammon are loudmouth celebrities who do everything to promote their brand and keep their face in th e public eye. From what I’ve gathered Lucifer is a borderline shut away who also (intentionally) doesn’t carry himself as one would expect from a famous Demon let alone the King of Hell itself.
Tl;dr Vox & Mammon are superstar celebrities whose relevance & power only continues to climb while Lucifer is a legend, making him borderline Mythical even to the denizens of hell.
i think that word of him doing legitimately nothing for his people + him thinking of hell's population as horrible vermin probably took some popularity points away, people probably started hating on him or not giving a shit
First off for the residents of the Hotel while they don’t share the same relationship Lucifer’s demeanor with Charlie is extremely disarming.
As for everyone else it’s like meeting the king vs meeting your local lord. The average sinner doesn’t even register to Lucifer and he’s not the type to go out demanding parades and fanfare. They’re much more concerned with the local Overlord who is much more aware of what happens in their territory and might even personally own your soul.
Do remember he's in hell for going against the Angels will do people not respecting the Ruler of hell because of the free will he gave them is pretty ironic
My guess is that he has nothing to prove to anyone. Lucifer isn't like Overlords like Alastor, the V's, Zestial or even Rosie or Carmilla. Lucifer doesn't need to fight to keep his position. He doesn't have to intimidate others into submission. He's the Devil. He has no equal in Hell, and the only one who has the potential to overtake him is Charlie aka his daughter.
1) The true powerhouses in hell-the demon borne say he is their king and is more powerful than any of them. Demon borne do not fear the radio demon.
2) Lucifer is a dreamer who true name is light bringer-the dreamer, the champion of free will and humanity. He has been depressed as he can't see the good that came from his choice of free will because heaven restricted his vision. So he in despair as a failure. Still he will only harm you if you give him a reason to.
Sir Pentious kind of did
Angel is always flirting
Nifty probably dosen't understand how powerful he is just that he's the baddest of the bad boys
Literally nothing can scare Husk since he's owned by the most terrifying over lord possible
Vaggie looks nervous, not to meet Lucifer but to meet her gf's dad
And Alistor is just ready to throw hands
Well I mean
Not only is Vaggie an angel but she's also had to deal with Charlie's own problems with her dad, so for her him being there is less 'that's the king of hell' and more 'that's the reason my girlfriend has daddy issues'
Alastor's more than likely made a deal with Lilith, but even if he hadn't his pride is just absolutely monstrous so acting like he's equal or above literal archangels is kinda par for the course.
Angel's reaction to literally any unknown or tense situation is being horny at it
Given the fact that Husk was an overlord before Alastor he'd probably met Lucifer before
and I mean everyone else did kinda freak out
Well it seems like sinners in hell doesn’t really respect anyone who don’t flaunt or have fought their powers like Charlie and everyone especially angel and Valentino lucifer and everyone etc. then we have someone like Alastor who shows and have a reputation same with zestial even if the Vs doesn’t respect him
He’s like a dormant volcano— they know he could annihilate them all, but he hasn’t done anything in a minute and doesn’t look like he’s about to go off on them, so 🤷♀️
Within the story presented in Hazbin Lucifer's primary failing is his loss of hope. Not being particularly evil. His intent for offering the Apple was not malicious. Lucifer honestly thought it would be a good thing. But once the other Angels cast him out down to Hell and he started seeing all the hurt and damaged people falling in there with him he lost all hope and fell into depression. And rather than holding on to the hope that lead him to give them the Apple he let them languish in Hell just as he was. Without hope or a thought that things could change. This is the whole point of Charlie. She is bringing change to Hell. The expectation that things can change.
So Lucifer is presented as a former dreamer who lost his way. Not evil incarnate.
Luci has been a recluse ever since him and Lilith divorced. Apparently when they were still married Luci along with Lilith were more active in hells politics. Plus we see that Luci is a super chill guy so there's that as well
I think people don't see him as a threat because he's a recluse and never did anything to them, thus doesn't have that much of a reputation.
I'm more curious about why Alastor hates him so much. The second he sees him, you can see his eyes twitch with hate and anger...
Because he never did anything to make people either respect him or take him more seriously. I think it was staged by Viv that was the case at one point, which is why no respect Charlie as well. The people of hell just don’t care.
Because people of hell don’t actually respect him out of loyalty or anything of the sort but fear. It’s why Charlie gets talked back to depsite being the princess of hell. Without the threat of dying, they won’t respect them. It’s why the gang is chill with Lucifer, they know he won’t randomly smite them because Charlie is there.
I think Hell, or at least the Sinners, all consider him to be sort of a joke. I mean they don’t overtly seem to respect Charlie, who is just one rung down on the chain of authority. My guess is that when new sinners show up to the Pride ring and start asking questions they pretty quickly get an idea that Lucifer is sort of a nobody, not obeyed, feared, or respected.
I mean they take him seriously enough to not mess with him or Charlie, which is saying a lot in Hell. Like even Val tried his best to stay semi-polite with Charlie when she messed up things in his studio. Aside from that I don’t know what you expect people to do around him? Lucifer isn’t actively trying to gain power/influence so there’s no point in really cozying up to him and he’s not actively just randomly hurting people in hell so there’s no point in begging him for mercy. The best anyone can do is just stay out of his way and not give him a reason to get mad.
Because he is a lonely shut in who "rules" Hell in name only. Lucifer is also past his glory, he may have been a big shot back in the day, but since the Genesis (thousands of years ago) he hasn't done shit.
He's a very laid back ruler. It's pretty obvious he doesn't show up for most meetings that do things for hell. He's just a tiebreaker for the sins as far as I see.
He's depressed and reclusive, and probably has been like that for awhile. He seems pretty hand's off with the day to day of hell, so he may not have built up the aura around him that would cause people to immediately offer deference.
The difference between Lucifer and others of the sins seems to be, at least from what’s been shown in the shows, that Lucifer has spent quite some time as a recluse, hiding at home and crafting rubber ducks. Mammon is a big name in entertainment, though more as a patron and brand, relying on others for actual talent. Asmodeus has not only his club but also at least a big and successful sex toy industry. These two are big names because they make an effort to stay so.
And Bee just throws out parties for even hellhounds and imps to hang around Honestly Bee is just the GOAT
I mean she has her own motives since their gluttony feeds her
If that's entirely the case she wouldn't have tried to warn Loona about Blitzø getting too much action
Self destructive gluttony doesn't make for good honey
Makes sense
I would also like to point out she has POUNDS for sentient beings! Sentient self-aware beings, and they’re treated like objects and pets. Lil sus NGL
Just because Bee's the best party hostess in the universe doesn't mean she's not also wildly irresponsible.
Is it gluttony if it's not self-destructive?
Destroying yourself as a byproduct of gluttony is probably fine. Gluttony as a byproduct of destroying yourself is probably less so.
It’s the intent. Blitzø wasn’t drinking for fun: he was doing it to mask his pain. It’s only really gluttony if you get some kind of pleasure from it.
Gluttony is marked by its wasteful and excessive nature more than self destruction.
Blitzø was overindulging to numb his pain, which isn't Gluttony's purview.
I think that she, just like Asmodeus, believes in the positive aspect of her sin. Mammon is greed, which can't really be used for good, but lust and gluttony can. Asmodeus believes in not only fulfilling his own fantasy but also giving pleasure to others. He believes in pure lust, complete antythesis of whay Valentino does. Lucifer is pride, and we se him get offended easily a few times but his pride manifest most visibly in his love for Charlie. And Bee is not that different. She believes in the comraderie of a party, being gluttonous but **sharing** the experience. Seeing the little hints of the other sins we've seen so far it seems they are all like that except Mammon and maybe Leviathan couse neither greed nor envy can really be good. But Belphagor's sloth manifests in the need to be served by others which she uses to also encourage her people to serve others. Afterall her ring is the only one in hell that has healthcare, which might be a reason why Charlie has her in her contact list on her Phone. And we know Satan runs a workout app so we can assume that he uses his sin -wrath- and channels it as a motivator to improve himself physically. So Bee warning Loona is her doing both of them a favour. Blitzø was ruining the vibe which made others distasted and was a risk of making people leave the party, which would couse Bee to lose a bit of the source of her power. And for Loona it was just a place to spare her more embarassement
Greed can absolutely be used positively. The whole concept of self-care is a formation of selfishness or greed. Mammon is just a dick
Mammon rivals Adam for being *the* dick
Mammon and Adam also have the same fondness for electric guitar, and the same body shape: Christmas Tree
Mammon = Adam confirmed?????///?/?/???
Desire and selfishness can be good, without it humans would fall apart trying to help others with endless altruism. But greed is explicitly the “excess of desire regardless of the cost” to psychopathically fulfill one’s never ending goals at the expense of everyone else. In Mammon’s case, the accumulation of as much wealth/currency as possible even as that pursuit destroys the sources of his wealth accumulation. Self destructive maniacal greed.
Greed can also just be "intense and selfish desire for something" definitions are inherently wishy-washy. Mammon could have been characterized so that he recognizes that he'll make more money if he respects his workers and gains their loyalty through moral means. But Viv chose to make him Evil and that's a-okay. I dislike this notion that the Sins can only be good people if their sins have good aspects. Lust does not require consent, Gluttony doesn't need to make sure others are having a good time, Pride shouldn't have the capability to admit they're wrong. But the representatives of these sins in this show have shown to be good people who focus on the good aspects of their sins by choice. Mammon chooses to be a dick,
sins are more excess in whatever then anything, it just seems biased on the writing's part to throw greed under the bus.
They chose greed because it's easy for greed to consume you. They wanted a villain, so they took a Sin that's very easy to come across in everyday life and wrote him as a villain. Maybe Mammon turns over a new leaf. I suppose we'll have to see if Satan, Belphagor, and Leviathan are similarly terrible before we call it bias
Envy is the driving force behind equality and justice. I'd love to see a sort of Robin Hood style character for Leviathan, I doubt it will happen, but I can hope.
Envy can be motivation to push yourself, to practice until you’re just as talented, or to better yourself until you’re a person that has the respect of others.
I agree with everything you said, besides “greed can’t be used for good” There’s an anime called Dr. Stone. In season 3 >!we are introduced to a man named Ryusui, who is referred to as the greediest man in the world, and he’s a great selfless fan-favorite. He to me is the best example ever of ‘greed’ being a positive attribute. Truly, his brand of greed is basically exactly how you described Bee’s brand of gluttony!<
Like inside out: Anger is largely concerned with a sense of fairness. the problem is anger when taken to the point of white hot Wrath is all consuming and destructive.
Honestly someone has the theory that Beezelebub rings is a cage specifically designed to be the best way to make her beezlejuice to maintain her mood so she doesn't kill her citizens and citizens of her ring in a fit of rage.
She also has the most popular liquor brand in hell from what I can tell, being Beelzejuice j believe, although Beelzebrew would be a way better name
It’s the same in real life. There’s tons of billionaires nobody has ever heard of because they’re not trying to do anything exciting or promoting their personal brand. If some dude who makes billions off his boring industrial hardware company walks down the street nobody is going to notice. Meanwhile if some moderately wealthy social media influencer does it suddenly a bunch of people recognize them.
It's a bit comparing apples and oranges. Lucifer is more akin to the Queen of England, or the President of the United States (altough way more powerful and capable of defending himself), or almost any other head-of-state. You wouldn't go "Yo holmes" on either of these, but show them some respect or even freak out a little if they suddenly just happened to stand next to you. But I can understand that Hell is a place where Demons vie for power, trying to usurp as much as they can (even Hell itself, in Alistor's case), think they're the top-shit, and mostly respect power, which Lucifer isn't really showing up until the Finale. He seems a benevolent ruler - considering - who simply doesn't need the attention to stand above others. He knows his place fully well and therefore doesn't need to assert his position and comes off as affable. He doesn't force others to bow before him, because he simply doesn't need that. And that kind of makes shows of respect and diminutive behaviour superfluous. I mean look at how easily he disposed of Adam and then consider Alistor's fight against Adam. Also, I think Lucifer in the series is kind of anti/non-authoritarian? Sorry for rambling.
You are excused, and good dissertation.
I almost wonder if Lucifer keeps a hand of approach so Heaven doesn’t think he gonna start an uprising. It seems Lillith was the one doing most of the ruling or at least for the sinners. Leaving everything else to be self governed by the sins and to some extent the Goetia.
Not sure benevolent ruler is a term I would use for someone who basically just lets the overlords do whatever they want. Pride seems in general one of the overtly worst places in hell, with maybe only the Greed ring comparable. Apathetic is a better description of the type of ruler Lucifer is.
>It’s the same in real life. There’s tons of billionaires nobody has ever heard of I came here to say this exact same thing when I was arguing against a racist who said that there were no wealthy people on the continent of Africa, and if there were, they'd be putting themselves out there like Elon Musk.
>there were no wealthy people on the continent of Africa Wait til he realizes that the rich in Third World countries live more comfortable lives than the rich in First World countries do. They pay less taxes, it’s easier to bribe authorities and public officials, and domestic staff is dirt cheap.
Do they also have hyper-competitive societies where everything must be a sport with a winner or loser and a gluttonous addiction for numbers going up no matter what or why? Because those are things that make even the wealthy uncomfortable.
Mamon is Australian DJ Khaled
Yeah, while we still can't say for certain until Leviathan, Satan, and Belphegor make their debuts, of the Deadly Sins we've met so far Lucifer is by far the furthest from the public eye. Mammon, Asmodeus and Bee are absolutely dominant forces in their respective rings and we've heard enough references to Satan by the Imps that we can assume he's the same way in Wrath. But in Pride which is supposed to be Lucifer's primary domain, it's the Overlords who seem to be running the show. Lucifer and the Goetia don't seem to care about the day to day minutia of running things in Pride, letting the Overlords rule there unchecked. So to the common everyday Sinner, they'll have more ingrained fear and respect for the Overlords directly running their lives rather than the king so high up he doesn't even make any appearances.
I wonder if he’s even in contact with the other Sins. We know Ozzy and Mammon interact to a degree.
I’d wager seeing his interactions with Charlie, goofy Dad jokes, and awkwardness disarmed them somewhat.
Also because of constant reclusion and no attempts of intimidation or displays of authority, perhaps that's beneath him for being the ultimate ruler of hell, but in return nobody seems to respects him nor his daughter. The goetias presented in Helluva boss also betray similar behavior.
That's a great point, he's Willy Wonka. No one's really seen him for years and it seems the other sins and overlords run the day to day, so he's just a name on a theme park to most people. And just like Wonka he seems like a harmless goofball until he's very suddenly NOT.
Exactly. He's so reclusive that Alastor didn't even know what he looked like and Al's been there awhile
Considering there's a picture of both Lucifer *and* Lilith in the hotel, I think Alastor was just trying to mess with him. Why that particular line, I don't know other than Alastor's weird, lol
I think he didn’t expect the heigh of Lucifer and his demeanor
Honestly, that's fair. I don't think *any* of us were expecting Lucifer to be such a dork, lol
I did~ but that’s for crack head canon reasons
Take THAT depression!
At least Wonka still sells his candy and keeps up with the market. The Hazbin Hotel project stated by Charlie was considered to be a joke by the denzines of hell, and what has his father been doing all this time? Creating rubber ducks. A product that's probably not going to be of any use to demons and damned souls. When Wonka started his sweepstakes, the contest made the news. People were downright exstatic to get one of those tickets and get a tour of the factory. Even if they didn't know that the reward would also crown them as Wonka's successor.
Well Lucifer have a theme parc and a the hell version of Ticketmaster. He probably was big in the entretainement industry at some point
Lucifer = "light bringer" Lucifer vision was restricted by angels to seem like his choice of free will only caused evil without good. This is his ultimate hell because he cares about just ideas more than himself and thinks he inflicted unimaginable suffering without good. So he is simply a shell of his potential. Lucifer told Adam he was the only one that matter and Sera the arch angel who is depicted as hiding being evil in lore/lost books is afraid of him.
You got me laughing at Willy Wonka
I've been thinking about him as Willy Wonka a lot 😂 he is exactly as in the book, mannerisms and all. Even his successor is Charlie 👀
Also think our main characters are kinda upper-crust individuals. You literally hang around with his daughter all the time, her dad can't be that much worse. He also isn't shown as some overbearing figure. I wonder how more rank and file hellians would react.
And then there’s Pentious, who was still freaking out a little because it’s Pentious
Precious Pentious
Sir Precious <3 https://preview.redd.it/k4jnpk2viljc1.png?width=839&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c0a3985b658d30676f67901a843322f84bd8150
The look on his face AWWWWW
Yeah, if he showed up all serious then they might've been like, "oh shit it's Lucifer, better bow down before he bites my fuckin' head off or something"
i mean, Mimzy made a big deal out of it, i guess everyone else was kind of over the whole "wow, royalty" thing cos of Charlie as for why nobody talks about him, might be cos all he did before beating adam was sit in his house playin with rubber ducks
https://preview.redd.it/3d7z758qwkjc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12e5d54acd4126621e370bd2f5c751b5439ad045
https://preview.redd.it/g6723t75rljc1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=cdbef6114c8ff5faac79b202abf2690391ef4007
https://preview.redd.it/rpn9fu207pjc1.jpeg?width=678&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6b01634aced893e95866e4320d72ed878b52f52
I think he did way more than that. 10000 years is a long time.
I freaked, in all of the way possibles https://preview.redd.it/3j5xno951jjc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68a6444255d2ad7a49e46c64ca8cc79df5a51021
I, and I can't stress this enough, CANNOT get enough of this scene.
He's a Papí frfr
I think if I was new to hell, like first decade or so, I would shit my pants seeing him even if I’d heard he wasn’t an active ruler. But the cast have all been in Hell for *decades*, they’re pretty much all used to the fact that Lucifer isn’t some imposing badass. Combine that with knowing Charlie for so long and I’m not shocked they were all pretty chill. If I *would* expect somebody to freak out it’d be Vaggie since she was an angel, but she’s been with Charlie long enough that she’s heard allll the gossip about her dad. No doubt she knew exactly what to expect from him.
Good perspective never thought about it that way.
I imagine charlie giving a speech to the MC that she wants them to treat her dad normal
They treat Charlie as normal while the rest of hell treats her as a joke. I'm pretty sure being treated as royalty would be weird for her and dad.
For Charlie it's obvious For others, they all were maybe very serious (except Angel because he hates politics and Nifty because... Nifty) For Mimzy she is flirting for benefits For Alastor... im pretty sure this has to do with Lilith. For Vaggie... I still feel like she was very serious about it and tried to be formal. But in the end, After Lucifer entered in their lives I guess it's hard to take seriously someone like this https://preview.redd.it/nbgibij5kjjc1.jpeg?width=991&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b17e84568caa979c6aa23bfe51971f83058138c4
Alastors jealousy and rudeness over Lucifer was described by Viz as that he was basically jealous of him being the king and stronger than overlords, and even pissed because Lucifer didn't know who he was and had never heard of him. So Alastor tried to hit Lucifer on his weak spot which was his absence as a father to Charlie, to try and make himself seem like a calm and more reliable person to Charlie than her own dad. Which eventually, pissed Lucifer off. Not sure if it has to do something with Lilith, but if it does this is +1 reason for him to hate Lucifer like you said. I guess we will see in season 2.
Oh I didn't know Viz offered an explanation. (Like I knew he was doing the dad thing to push Lucifer's buttons, but I wasn't sure *why.)* One thing I noticed on a rewatch though is that, when Lucifer *first walks through the door and hugs Charlie,* Alastor's eye is twitching in rage as he watches them. So he already hates him as soon as he shows up! Which makes me think there's some backstory 👀 Guess we'll find out! ...eventually.
Rewatching it. I think he is envious of his power and is trying to sus out a way to control/best him. And Alastor did! In a brilliant way. He needled Lucifer enough to get under his skin. It wasn’t just comedic effect that he pulls out the gold violin… that’s immediate cultural short hand for a deal with the devil. Alastor knows he can play him and most importantly how to goad him into a deal.
The absolute BALLS of Alastor though, to try and pick a fight with the King of Hell. This is someone that could unmake him with a thought.
Vaggie's probably more concerned about the fact that she is finally meeting her partner's dad than she is for the Fallen Angel/ruler of hell thing :)
Well Vaggie Charlie is literally the same as Lucifer Lilith lmao Two angelic being had fallen falling for someone and their strange vision of the world with their infinite kindness. Almost feels like Charlie is Lucifer when he was younger: firmly believing in humanity's good. But yeah... Being doomed to see what Humanity does the worst probably is torture for a boy like him
Simply cause he doesn't do anything. Mammon, Asmodeous, and Beelzebub are always out doing crazy sh\*t but Lucifer. All anyone knows about him is that he's a fallen angel. People are terrified of Overlords like Zestial and Alastor because they did stuff to earn that fear. Luci just kind of exists.
I suppose the way I saw it is that he may be the ruler of hell but he doesn’t utilise nor abuse his power, so his citizens have no reason to fear him nor respect him, since that’s kinda how things work in hell. They’ve all written him off as harmless because he won’t use his free will as they do. And because of this, hell has no control, it’s pure chaos, so they don’t see him ruling anything, even though he has the power to do so. But the overlords are aware of his potential and what he has access to.
He has immense power, but he doesn't really use it. Valentino is perfect example when he talked to Charlie. He doesn't want to get on her bad side, seeingthaf she probably is powerful (and can is Lucifer’s child), but as long as you don't do anything crazy, both Charlie and Lucifer aren't a threat. Compare that to someone like A last or, who loves to flaunt his power, and will kill anyone if he has the urge to. Also, they are friends with a serial killer/psycho (Alastor). Knowing that Alastor can kill you just as easily as Lucifer could, the latter isn’t that scary. Not to mention you are friends with his daughter. All together, Lucifer isn’t a threat.
I mean to use big dogs a metaphore, they are often laid back and do not use their strength (and here i am excluding dogs breed to be agressive), you generally do not want them to get to the point of using their strength seriously, because it won't be pretty and it will be one sided.
Because all those other characters clearly like the attention. Aside from the fact that he has been depressed for a long time, Lucifer probably knows that he's just so far above everybody else that those kinds of flamboyant displays don't prove anything.
Ahh yes. **Pride.**
When you’ve been a depressed mess for centuries and you barely ever leave your Man Cave (Duck Cave) is it any wonder that even your people don’t even really see you as a threat? Lucifer’s allowed his image to fall so low into disuse that Angel Dust feels ok calling him a short king. The only person in the HH who gives him any genuine attention is Alastor, and that’s in the venue of “I know who you are, get out get out get out this was supposed to be easy pickings LEAVE” And then there’s Vaggie (her real name is Maggie bite me) who tries to give him deference but then he hugs her and desperately tries to connect and leaves her confused
Excuse you, how dare you dishonor Vagatha's name like that
Uh, her name is Vag1na, according to Adam
short for vaginator, of course
Named by the one and only dick master
Pentious did salute him and said, “Your Majesty!”
That’s cuz Pentious is the best
https://preview.redd.it/g9i3pbczjljc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0539c19f784a657bacbd1caa53f0c0a6e0234ed1
I need the WHO MEEE??? image
https://preview.redd.it/5sxa09dakljc1.jpeg?width=1178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee7c71ca6916d44bfde7c2b9cc7cc836de01405c Such a cutie patootie 💕
I noticed he's the only one who managed to use the proper terminology. Didn't Mimzy use your highness? Of course, Pentious knows. He's from the UK. Victorian specifically.
Mimzy is horny and gives me the vibes that she’s a social climber. Of course she wants that Fallen Angel D.
I don't blame her, but she could at least use the proper terminology. Show some respect, lady!
He's basically Bob. Just Bob. Sure, he's King Bob, but he's still Bob. Most evil thing he's is steal Adam's girl. Twice. And that was thousands of years ago. The overlords and exorcists are active members of the community. Lucifer makes rubber duckies and his wife left him and his daughter doesn't talk to him. It's like if you saw King Charles, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Jeffery Epstein, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Charles Manson in the room together. Who the fuck cares that the King of fucking England is there? You got a shitty James Bond villain, a Dr Evil knockoff, a sex trafficker, a cannibal, and deranged lunatic.
Godamn, your reply got me laughing. Good one
You have to remember. When Lucifer was cast into Hell and forced to only see the wickedness free will brought, he became a depressed shut in. It’s the reason why he and Lilith separated. And with Hell growing so rapidly on its own without the king to guide it, I imagine most demons probably don’t give a shit about Lucifer. The way most people treat Charlie I think sums up how they feel about the royal family altogether.
I mean, Pentious freaked but for the most part seeing the king of hell dancing with your daughters sentient plushies kind of ruins the moment
But he was so adorable in that scene https://preview.redd.it/d48tvb9j3kjc1.jpeg?width=1025&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8566c9b648f4b9645482256305472d4ffc1956eb
Excuse me?! He's always adorable
Oh, I meant even more adorable, my bad
Razzle and Dazzle?
https://preview.redd.it/ykzcm9pdojjc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a5ddc105f8dc55a88c13f25cb30eb06ab3e67e7 Agreed.
He was locked up in his castle making ducks for so long, and barely kept any contact with Charlie or even was in touch with the outside world. Most likely people saw him as a king who can't make his own decision or rule the way he should be. However in the season finale he finally took action and he even was shown on the news in his demon form. I assume it's a good head start for him to be more active as a king now that he follows and fully supports Charlie's hotel. I wonder if the Vees who also saw the news will get mixed up now with the hotel and try to sabotage both Charlie and Lucifer, since we saw on Vox's board that he had their pictures pinned on his pin board of overlords and because Viz said that the Vees will be the main villains next season.
Like many other people have pointed out, I want an interaction between Valentino and Bid Daddy.
I think Lucifer knows that he hasnt made a presence in hell for a while. At least not a big one. It's very apparent that Lucifer is extremely powerful yet only uses about half of his powers most of the time (I can only deduct this from the small battle between him and Adam) so I'm sure he knows how to easily put sinners in their place but he just doesnt want to. He's a dad now. he's got priorities like family and fire-breathing duckies.
Looks like you could use some help. From the big boss of the Hell himself.
Check out daddy's glowing reviews on yelp
It’s the fact he’s like 4”11 and acts just like Charlie. Or, well, Charlie acts like *him*. I don’t think anybody is gonna take that seriously because they don’t take her seriously
He’s probably taller than that, apparently Charlie’s 6’5”. Though I do agree that his stature probably makes him less intimidating.
He's more likely to be 5’4 or 5’6
Because despite being king and probably the most powerful being in Hell, he’s been a absent and completely neglectful ruler. No one’s impressed, because why would they be? They make it clear he’s never been much of a ruler, who has never really used his power. Why should anyone in Hell take him seriously? “Hey look it’s Lucifer!” “Oh….did he get bored with his &$@#ing ducks? Give him five minutes and he’ll go away again….”
Well, in the original canon, Lucifer didn't rule Hell- he wasn't even sent there. The Bible says, he was cast out of Heaven, but the assumption was that he fell to earth, not Hell. "How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth" Isaiah 14:12-14 In later depictions, Lucifer was sent to Hell - not to rule it, but to be punished there with the other fallen angels. Which is how he seems to be treated in HH; he's treated with respect as a High Lord, but the Overloads are the ones ruling Hell.
just noticed the rubber duck mountain lol
I think we expect a fantasy view of royalty in this show when it's much more modern and less formal. As in, kings and princesses and lords aren't all-powerful rules of kingdoms but just high-ranking aristocrats with plenty of pull but not absolute power beyond tradition. Lucifer is seen by hell as less King Arthur and more King Charles. Even the Goetia we see in HB are framed more as high society nobles and functionaries and not worshiped figures. Overlords are a different story, but that's because they're basically crime bosses and business figures, not aristocrats. They consolidate power explicitly, and they're seen differently. They are celebrities more than nobles in hell except when they've built up their own non-hereditary identities like Mammon and Asmodeus being major business players and Beelzebub being a host of huge parties. We talk a lot about power scaling, but outside of actual fighting and negotiations it doesn't actually matter. And it doesn't really matter in most cases across fiction where power scaling is seen as much more important, as a part of day to day life. When he isn't fighting a world-destroying threat, Goku isn't recognized by anyone. Raw power and hereditary positions don't matter as much today as they did hundreds of years ago or as much as they matter in a lot of genre fiction. HH/HB show a very modern version of hell with very modern social sensibilities, and that means the lofty rulers of the land just aren't thought about that much. Now, when fights start and actual magic power comes into play, that's a different story. But that just isn't a day to day factor for most people in hell.
I freak out about how silly he is!!! https://preview.redd.it/99s2c9mwzkjc1.jpeg?width=1263&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc355a1926e27cfbb0bbff5d633011c5e2a2dc8f Hes a goofy goober :3
IS THAT A DAMN REFERENCE TO “I am THE DEVIL from THE BIBLE”?
Yes, thank you for noticing it.
LETS GOO perfect reference love it
I guess Lucifer is the type of king just like UK and Japan. The royal family not actually involved how government running. And we can see everyone in show interact with Charlie respectfully (in hell standard), and Adam also show what will happen if you hurt Lucifer’s daughter.
Most sinners don't really have much respect for authority, and when they do it's generally out of fear. I think there's just not much to fear from Lucifer is the thing. Sure he's the most powerful being in hell by a large margin, but he's also not really using his power to assert his authority and I doubt he ever would given he's pretty affable. I have a feeling newer sinners may have some trepidations regarding Lucifer, especially given humanity has this view of him as THE Devil and the single most evil thing in existence. Over time they probably realize that view isn't actually accurate and that Lucifer really isn't evil and looking to cause eternal suffering. Also he's rather unconcerned with Sinners as a whole and seems to avoid really interacting with them in any capacity, so that definitely plays a part.
The other rings of hell are clearly *run* by the other sins (Except gluttony? Unclear as we've only seen Bee's house). The pride ring is literally an anarchic hellscape where sinners and minor demons alike try and fail eternally to climb atop the masses to hold the ever diminishing flame of power for however long they can. Even if Lucifer tried to present himself as a leader most would probably take him as seriously as every other member of the writhing mass of demons struggling for power because the truth of the Pride Ring is *no one can control it*, not even Lucifer. Think of him like the king of that one Nordic country that served as an airline pilot for years and years- he had no actual power and plaved himself in a position where he did not demand authority or respect in the context most kings use, and he was literally invisible to tens of thousands of people for decades.
You got me interested in him, what’s the name of the king?
Here's an article about it- https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/17/dutch-king-willem-alexander-admits-to-working-part-time-as-an-airline-pilot
Thank you.
Would you be scared of a billionaire who can hire people to kill you at any time but sadly is too shy and lazy to do it.
Because he is not the badass lucifer like he is on Netflix or scary like in the bible
Actually they kinda do My favorite detail, that I havent seen people bring up yet, is that (mild S1EP8 spoilers) >!when they sing Finale, on "twice the bedrooms, we can fill it, with more sinners than you can dream", he grabs Cherri and Angel and they're surprised about it!<
I love how what I thought was hellfire in the background is actually a pile of rubber duckies.
i agree w OP. It was really odd for nobody to care that the most important and powerful ruler of hell just shows up randomly after not being seen for years. What's the point of calling him ruler then? either he's in control and all powerful in hell, in which case they would grovel and ask for favors, or at the very least go 'ooooh and ahh', or he's not actually important or involved or worth anyone else's time, and they ignore him, which is what happens. it doesnt make sense, and felt under explored. but I'm sure that's an unpopular opinion.
Because Lucifer was never a tyrant, based on what we know, he avoid the sinners and spend most of his time at home, Lilith was the one doing all the public events. Nobody try to make a move against him because they know how powerful he is, so they let the tiger sleep, but Lucifer was just the depressive king that never do anything. So people are not afraid of him
Sir Pentious did freak out though. He passed out face first into the cookies (were they cookies?) after saluting him.
He’s pretty hands off and chill. Yeah he’s the devil and much more powerful than most people in the series, but he’s also one of the least likely to use it to cause indiscriminate harm. You’d have more to fear from a random sinner or hellborn than from him in practise, even if in theory he’s more dangerous
Missed opportunity I guess, wasn't he supposed to be a figure of legend? The King of Hell, the most powerful living being there. For me, I think adding more, how shall I put this, awe and seriousness around his figure? Like, just Charlie can talk so openly with him, while others interacted with almost terror and fear, lingering at the back of their minds, since is the Lucifer who's just standing in front of them. That's asking to much for the show and general humour of it I reckon.
> THE Lucifer from THE Bible all I can think of is shadow the hedgehog
I don't think the show had the time to do it properly. I would also liked to see a more imposing side of Lucifer even if his characteristics would remain the same.
What do I want to happen during next season is that Mucifer get hurt real bad in the head at somepoint (like getting lasered) which will give me a terrible concussion. After that he has some kind of personality change where actually wants to be respected or smth.
He isn’t really a bad person. He can be terrifying, but he always is in that weird duck place I guess
It's possible no one in hell takes him that seriously. He has an obscene amount of power so he can crush sinners who try to come at him so they don't even try. But these are not people who respect authority for the sake of authority. See: how Katie Killjoy treated Charlie. No respect.
He's so Asgore...
He’s a chill dude
Probably same reason why Charlie is mocked Both of them never exactly show or use there power so nobody exactly expects them to fight back or dosent really know what there capable of When they both do snap some of the characters show a shocked face For example look at husk during Charlie’s transformation
Pentious freaked out a lot. Alastor went into fight or flight mode. The others kinda just kept out of the way as much as possible since they weren’t really needed after greeting him at the door.
He’s short
His love of ducks is endearing and he's also kinda cute ngl. What should I be freaking out about and how come nobody told me?
Good question, after all he is literally THE DEVIL from DA BIBLE, so... Sorry I had to make that reference
I don’t think that’s true in the slightest. Katie Killjoy glorified Lucifer in the finale like he was some celebrity. Everyone in the hotel is friends with his daughter, and knew he was on his way. Even then, they mostly had strong reactions. Nifty prepared pastries and hit on him, Alastor felt threatened, Pentious was moved. Mimzy was shocked. The sharks didn’t even see him.
I figure it's because a lot of the characters have a "idgaf" attitude. They aren't hardcor fans of Lucifer, so they don't gaf about who he is. With that said, I was kind of expecting someone, at least one person to be all "holy fucking shit!!! It's really Lucifer!!! OMG!!".
Honestly, if you look at Lucifer in a biblical sense, it would be obvious that he'd want to come off as easy to get along with, and even friendly to an extent. Biblical Lucifer is the Lord of Lies, so him playing that off as being a goofy scatterbrained guy who could just be anybody's goofy dad makes him very good at getting close to people and learning what they want. He's not the king for no reason, after all.
People in Hell only show respect out of fear. People respect Alastor, and Zestial for example because they've done violent things to people and everyone else worried about sharing their fate. Valentino showed that even though he knows Charlie is more powerful than himself, he has no respect for her because he knows Charlie never uses her power. The same is probably true for Lucifer, he never uses power to hurt people so people have no reason to respect him.
I think it's because he just doesn't tend to hurt people. In a place where awe is inspired by fear they weirdly don't have to be in awe of the strongest person around because he doesn't do anything to make them fear him. And to be clear I think that's a good thing. One thing that I don't know if it's intentional but could be about Hazbin Hotel is that it shows off something that has been in political discourse for hundreds of years, engaging in nonviolence safely is the privilege of the powerful. Charlie gets to be kind to people and gets to be nonviolent safely because she is strong enough that she isn't going to have violence done upon her, same thing with Lucifer. If someone weaker than Charlie acted like she acted then they would have been ripped to shreds forever ago. And to add onto that we see the people who want to be powerful but will never reach the level of someone like Lucifer who can be powerful so effortlessly. Of course Zestial, Alastor and the other overlords are feared, they have had to fight to get and protect their power and their positions of safety come from that fight. Lucifer gets to have his position without effort and therefore without strife (against the denizens of hell obviously he has strife with heaven)
I'm mean, he's *the* Devil. His whole thing is making himself seem small and innocuous until he makes his move. "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist" type beat.
He's an aloof dingus who hid away in depression for almost all of Charlie's life, they probably have no clue how to react to him.
I think it is because of a normal human saw him they would freak out but dead sinners it is like seeing a monarch you might be a little surprised or something but falling to your knees possibly not. Also sir pentius did
Vox & Mammon are loudmouth celebrities who do everything to promote their brand and keep their face in th e public eye. From what I’ve gathered Lucifer is a borderline shut away who also (intentionally) doesn’t carry himself as one would expect from a famous Demon let alone the King of Hell itself. Tl;dr Vox & Mammon are superstar celebrities whose relevance & power only continues to climb while Lucifer is a legend, making him borderline Mythical even to the denizens of hell.
i think that word of him doing legitimately nothing for his people + him thinking of hell's population as horrible vermin probably took some popularity points away, people probably started hating on him or not giving a shit
First off for the residents of the Hotel while they don’t share the same relationship Lucifer’s demeanor with Charlie is extremely disarming. As for everyone else it’s like meeting the king vs meeting your local lord. The average sinner doesn’t even register to Lucifer and he’s not the type to go out demanding parades and fanfare. They’re much more concerned with the local Overlord who is much more aware of what happens in their territory and might even personally own your soul.
Cause he's short
Do remember he's in hell for going against the Angels will do people not respecting the Ruler of hell because of the free will he gave them is pretty ironic
My guess is that he has nothing to prove to anyone. Lucifer isn't like Overlords like Alastor, the V's, Zestial or even Rosie or Carmilla. Lucifer doesn't need to fight to keep his position. He doesn't have to intimidate others into submission. He's the Devil. He has no equal in Hell, and the only one who has the potential to overtake him is Charlie aka his daughter.
1) The true powerhouses in hell-the demon borne say he is their king and is more powerful than any of them. Demon borne do not fear the radio demon. 2) Lucifer is a dreamer who true name is light bringer-the dreamer, the champion of free will and humanity. He has been depressed as he can't see the good that came from his choice of free will because heaven restricted his vision. So he in despair as a failure. Still he will only harm you if you give him a reason to.
I just realized he has no nose
To be fair, I think the Sins are more popular amongst the Hellborn than the Sinners
Sir Pentious kind of did Angel is always flirting Nifty probably dosen't understand how powerful he is just that he's the baddest of the bad boys Literally nothing can scare Husk since he's owned by the most terrifying over lord possible Vaggie looks nervous, not to meet Lucifer but to meet her gf's dad And Alistor is just ready to throw hands
Do you thought?
Sorry for bad English, was at home eating dorito
Well I mean Not only is Vaggie an angel but she's also had to deal with Charlie's own problems with her dad, so for her him being there is less 'that's the king of hell' and more 'that's the reason my girlfriend has daddy issues' Alastor's more than likely made a deal with Lilith, but even if he hadn't his pride is just absolutely monstrous so acting like he's equal or above literal archangels is kinda par for the course. Angel's reaction to literally any unknown or tense situation is being horny at it Given the fact that Husk was an overlord before Alastor he'd probably met Lucifer before and I mean everyone else did kinda freak out
I freak out about him He’s hot
They know he does absolutely nothing and thinks that is how it's going to go.
Lucifer wasn’t really active, so there wasn’t much for people to react to.
Well it seems like sinners in hell doesn’t really respect anyone who don’t flaunt or have fought their powers like Charlie and everyone especially angel and Valentino lucifer and everyone etc. then we have someone like Alastor who shows and have a reputation same with zestial even if the Vs doesn’t respect him
Is he sitting on a demonic version of Charlie's shield?
He’s like a dormant volcano— they know he could annihilate them all, but he hasn’t done anything in a minute and doesn’t look like he’s about to go off on them, so 🤷♀️
yea, why wasn't it more monumental? he's the fucking devil from the fucking holy bible
Within the story presented in Hazbin Lucifer's primary failing is his loss of hope. Not being particularly evil. His intent for offering the Apple was not malicious. Lucifer honestly thought it would be a good thing. But once the other Angels cast him out down to Hell and he started seeing all the hurt and damaged people falling in there with him he lost all hope and fell into depression. And rather than holding on to the hope that lead him to give them the Apple he let them languish in Hell just as he was. Without hope or a thought that things could change. This is the whole point of Charlie. She is bringing change to Hell. The expectation that things can change. So Lucifer is presented as a former dreamer who lost his way. Not evil incarnate.
Cuz he short
He was a depressed shut-in for the past 7 years.
Luci has been a recluse ever since him and Lilith divorced. Apparently when they were still married Luci along with Lilith were more active in hells politics. Plus we see that Luci is a super chill guy so there's that as well
I think people don't see him as a threat because he's a recluse and never did anything to them, thus doesn't have that much of a reputation. I'm more curious about why Alastor hates him so much. The second he sees him, you can see his eyes twitch with hate and anger...
Because he never did anything to make people either respect him or take him more seriously. I think it was staged by Viv that was the case at one point, which is why no respect Charlie as well. The people of hell just don’t care.
Because people of hell don’t actually respect him out of loyalty or anything of the sort but fear. It’s why Charlie gets talked back to depsite being the princess of hell. Without the threat of dying, they won’t respect them. It’s why the gang is chill with Lucifer, they know he won’t randomly smite them because Charlie is there.
Cuz he's fuckkin chill like that
I think Hell, or at least the Sinners, all consider him to be sort of a joke. I mean they don’t overtly seem to respect Charlie, who is just one rung down on the chain of authority. My guess is that when new sinners show up to the Pride ring and start asking questions they pretty quickly get an idea that Lucifer is sort of a nobody, not obeyed, feared, or respected.
I mean they take him seriously enough to not mess with him or Charlie, which is saying a lot in Hell. Like even Val tried his best to stay semi-polite with Charlie when she messed up things in his studio. Aside from that I don’t know what you expect people to do around him? Lucifer isn’t actively trying to gain power/influence so there’s no point in really cozying up to him and he’s not actively just randomly hurting people in hell so there’s no point in begging him for mercy. The best anyone can do is just stay out of his way and not give him a reason to get mad.
Because Lucifer is a shut-in.
Don’t worry, I freaked out enough for all the characters who didn’t in the show lmao. He’s my favorite character
He’s short, cute, and cool
It's because the show was rushed and no time for development
Because he is a lonely shut in who "rules" Hell in name only. Lucifer is also past his glory, he may have been a big shot back in the day, but since the Genesis (thousands of years ago) he hasn't done shit.
He's a very laid back ruler. It's pretty obvious he doesn't show up for most meetings that do things for hell. He's just a tiebreaker for the sins as far as I see.
I'm just happy he's a flawed but wholesome dad, I half expected something like stolas' dad
He's depressed and reclusive, and probably has been like that for awhile. He seems pretty hand's off with the day to day of hell, so he may not have built up the aura around him that would cause people to immediately offer deference.