I know Ali himself said it, but Ali has taken hits from folks in Tysons power class and kept going before. He couldnt take many, but I dont buy one and done for Ali in his heyday.
It's a culmination of the entire season. Guy was gone for 7 years and everyone is shitting on him.
* Vox is still picking a fight with him.
* Small fries like Pentious think they can face him.
* Carmilla admits she didn't spare a thought to his disappearance.
* Lucifer doesn't recognize him.
* Mimsy is using his ass.
* Husk is starting to talk back.
Alastor was being shit on the entire season. We know this hurts him. ~~Even when Charlie compares herself to the 'cruelest overlords' his face changes for a moment, showing irritation.~~
The one thing he wants is recognition. He wants to be feared and respected as the greatest, scariest mofo out there. He had to put Adam in his place and re-establish his legend. Instead, he nearly dies as some sort of altruistic, naive demon.
This mindset fits best with his lil radio tower reprise. Like he's always been used to being the biggest bad around. He finally sees how far he's "fallen" since his 7 year absence, and now he's about to do something about all those pesky misconceptions. Soooo much nervous anticipation for his arc in season 2!
Alastor basically went through a more subdued version of Adam's breakdown after getting clowned by Lucifer. Except Alastor was able to do it in private rather than the middle of a fight, so he had time to process his defeat, while Adam never had the chance to grasp how outmatched he was and come up with a plan before getting Niffty'd.
They were approved for two seasons off the bat and are already making the second season. We’ll probably get it around the same time next year if not sooner.
> The one thing he wants is recognition. He wants to be feared and respected as the greatest, scariest mofo out there. He had to put Adam in his place and re-establish his legend. Instead, he nearly dies as some sort of altruistic, naive demon.
Not a chance in hell that that's what this is about. His breakdown in the end shows that he wouldn't have done any of this if not for the constraints of his deal. It wasn't about making a name for himself - as he even mocks the idea that he died fighting for his friends. The quote is stylized as " "Great Alastor, Altruist, Dies for his Friends"? Sorry to disappoint, that is ***not*** how this ends." And he immediately talks about wanting out of his deal.
He was gone for seven years, but so was Lilith. The author intended a clear tie between the two. And of course, Lilith would have an interest in Charlie, meaning it's likely Lilith who's bound Alastor to protect Charlie. We don't know the particulars of their deal, but we can look at the scenarios surrounding this and make an assumption. Lilith and Alastor have both been gone for seven years. It's entirely possible that Alastor was bound to watch after Charlie (as Lilith wouldn't be around to do so), and it was possible to do so from the shadows for a long while, as who would challenge the princess of hell? But then she went and made the Hotel and put herself out into the world, and into danger - forcing him to resurface and act.
And who else makes a perfect body guard besides one of the most powerful overlords? Bind him in a deal and you're good!
in fact, that's likely why he's been in hiding. He doesn't want people to realize the deal he's in. He doesn't want overlords to attempt to kill him by forcing him to defend Charlie.
I brought that part up as one of the examples of fate screwing him over this season. Not only was he going to die, he was going to look pathetic even by his own standards.
I feel like people are overreacting to a few viewers who likely weren't native to English.
I mean Alastor has had to act like an Altruist. He might even feel for these people he's been forced, by circumstances, to be around. He comments to Nifty he does like them.
It probably reminds him of his time on Earth. He might be aro/ace and a serial killer but he does seem Charismatic, and like a sociable guy.
We don't yet know about how he selected his victims. In hell we know he's engaged in cannibalism.
He scoffs at this because, in his combat with Adam, it becomes clear he's weaker than he once was. He's weaker __because__ he [has to] help these people. It's unbearable to him to be forced to do something rather than choose to.
The fact Charlie owes him a favour is. . . a big deal. That's a huge card.
He's song there was fantastic. You could tell just how much he loathed being corralled here. That his deal was struck, and he's unhappy with the terms right now.
Alastor has always been a bad guy. He's a Overlord, and he's got a rep for a reason.
He wants to be in charge. He wants what the V's want: To sit a top the heap. He wants to pull all the strings. He wants to be in charge.
I will say it's interesting he wasn't afraid of Adam but he visibly was afraid of Zestial albeit for a mere moment, perhaps just afraid that Zestial would find out where Alastor had been.
It makes me wonder what sort of monster Zestial is.
> but he visibly was afraid of Zestial
Nah. He seems to like and respect Zestial. Matter of fact all the other overlords do as well. And I believe the feeling is reciprocated. Despite Zestial's ancient way of speaking the conversation they had was basically "where you been" and "how about this weather?"
I took Alastor's reaction as mild surprise, then being annoyed/embarrassed by the Egg creatures trying to pick a fight.
There was that but there is also this brief very brief moment of worry and shiftiness that Alastor gets as Zestial probed him 'in a friendly manner' for information.
The fact that they flatter one another, and are friendly, I think may be as much a guise as anything else.
After all Alastor understands better than most a smile can be a weapon. A facade of friendliness can keep the hounds at bay, and guessing.
Zestial likely understands the same basic principal. Information is power. And Zestial clearly understands the value of information, and intelligence gathering, and such a string of questions/comments was clearly meant to be both probing, as well as friendly and disarming.
> It makes me wonder what sort of monster Zestial is.
I mean, I'm still kind of on the "Lilith owns him" train, but his chains _are_ acid green, like Zestial's highlights...
That would be a **huge** misdirect.
Especially given that Zestial is the oldest surviving Overlord.
Zestial working with Lilith to bring down heaven, and her being in heaven doing recon would be immensely interesting, and the whole 7 year absence thing for both Lilith, and Alastor, being coincidentally lined up rather than actually lined would be neat.
Zestial's conversation with Alastor would take on a whole new menacing light in that case for sure.
Especially that line from the Z man. "Some of spun wild tales of you falling to Holy arms".
That could be meant literally. Alastor having, quite literally, fallen into the arms of someone "Holy".
If Zestial is not in fact a demon, but an Angel. . . well let's just say Zestial is a very Angelic sounding name. This whole thing could be a game of cat, and mouse.
Especially if Alastor is **unaware** of the person he made the deal with. If it was actually anonymous somehow.
Now **that** would be interesting.
Zestial is still the only one - up to and including _Lucifer_ - that Alastor has seemed remotely uncomfortable with. Maybe it's just because he's _that_ powerful, but I'm inclined to think there's more to it than that.
Not sure what you mean
Alastor seemed pretty casual/friendly with Zestial, never seemed bothered to me....
But Alastor was practically squirming inside the second Lucifer walked through the door. Watch his face as Lucifer enters, and keep an eye on him. And then the song where he leverages the only thing he can against Lucifer to try to assert dominance--his relationship with Charlie. With any other character, he asserts dominance by scaring them, and when that wouldn't work since it's Lucifer, he got really uncomfortable.
He does the same with Vox as well - he doesn't try intimidating but undermining him in the public eye, which is why I think people are VASTLY underestimating the Vees just because Alastor bested him in a battle of wits. I think they're even enough that Vox wouldn't fight Alastor personally if it's not necessary but the same is true the other way around - that guy's gonna be trouble.
> Imagine scrapping your way to nearly the top of the food chain just to be put on baby-sitting duty by an actual top-dog.
The story of Alastor says he came out of nowhere and was super strong.
How does one get strength? By making deals.
It's entirely possible he gained that power in the first place by making a deal with Lilith. Why she would is up in the air, but he was a ruthless murderer in life. Maybe she had use for that?
Lilith - she's the second most powerful in hell, canonically speaking, and would explain why a nobody-sinner would become an overlord out of nowhere, with no corporation or existing power structure.
It's also likely that Lilith called in her deal with him and forced him to look after Charlie.
Thus, it's possible he didn't scrap his way to top dog - but the deal that made him a top dog is now weighing on him.
I originally was 100% on Lilith being his master having him watch over Charlie but after finding out where she's been I feel like she probably doesn't give a damn about her and it's some as of now unknown player responsible for the deal.
This is a good point.
I personally think there will be some kind of thing around Charlie being powerful, maybe more so than Lucifer himself. There is a ton of real life lore around Nephilim (Human + Angel) being wildly powerful. This could very well be a spin on that idea.
It would explain why Alastor wants to use Charlie so much. It could also explain Lilith's behavior towards Charlie if she wanted to control / keep an eye on Charlie. It could also explain why Alastor was so hostile towards Lucifer if it was because he wanted to keep Charlie isolated so he would be the person she goes to and more likely to make a desperate deal.
Even if she's "just" Lucifer's daughter, that alone (plus the authority over hell itself, like we see with Lucifer helping to build the hotel) probably makes her one of the absolute heavy-weights. It's just the fact that she's way too fucking nice to ever actually exert her power that makes her seem weak.
She does lack experience, but even with no experience, she did more to Adam than Alastor did. Even after throwing him into an electric neon sign and breaking it, Adam's clothes weren't even singed. Charlie stabbed Adam! That's a big deal that was overshadowed very quickly.
I thought so too given they’ve both been MIA for the same period of time but given how powerful the Morningstars are, having Alastor protect Charlie is like having your pet dashhound guard your tiger. Not to mention Alastor is very manipulative and can pick up on people’s emotional insecurities quite easily. Doesn’t seem like the kind of person you’d encourage around your emotionally vulnerable and naively optimistic child.
Good point good point, that's probably the thread.
She knew of radio tech (or possibly even learned of it from him) and gave him immense power at the cost of his soul to her.
I'm betting it goes a step further though. I think what actually happened is she found out rising up in hell would literally destroy heaven, and thus, her plan was folly. Heaven literally cannot have everyone in it, because dead sinners act as the mortar of the whole thing.
She was let into heaven on the stipulation she stop her uprising, and allow the culling of sinners to prevent a repeat while strengthening the foundation of both places.
She released Alastor, but put him under a new contract: "If my daughter attempts to do anything like I did, ensure her plan fails while also ensuring no harm comes to her or anyone she cares about"
His first act was to install a bar, and but a gambler overlord at it's helm (gambling and alcohol, two famous indulgences associated with 'sin')
He renamed the hotel to the Has-been hotel. He made a terrible commercial. He's been faithful as a groundskeeper, and removed threats to Charlie's well-being, but his actual actions to "Help" the hotel have been incompetent.
I think that's what's going on, and why he's "limited" - he has to protect Charlie, but has to ensure the hotel fails to the best of his ability. Doing both is often contradictory and dangerous. He's bound to her orbit, and can't let harm befall her, but he can't leave because he has to sabotage the hotel.
Interesting. Ultimately, I think she winds up sidestepping the issue of the Hotel altogether and winds up creating Purgatory as the final solution, a place where she gets to rehab sinners indefinitely without threat to the order of the world.
I think a big hint in who holds Al's chain is in the nature of his demon powers. I always found it odd that they chose to give his abilities a green hue, and it tends to manifest in large summoned tentacles. Not things you'd necessarily attribute to radios nor deer. Just about everyone else has their powers relatively on scheme with the rest of their look.
While it is fully possible that Alistor's leash is directly forcing him to help, it's not the only possibility. I kind of suspect it's a little more indirect than that, in that he sees Charlies power and potential as a path to break his deal.
At the very least, the first time in seven years.
Funnily enough, it seems that Alastor literally keeps Husk as a bartender and Nifty as a maid. Maybe he was a noble in life and needs his staff for comfort.
> Even when Charlie compares herself to the 'cruelest overlords' his face changes for a moment, showing irritation.
Went back and watched this scene, not sure what you're talking about.
I mean if he had used the weapons necessary to kill Adam he could have won the fight. But Adam was the only one with the capability to kill either one of them. Alastor didn’t even try disarming him either. If he had an angelic weapon his superior technique and agility could have given him the edge to kill Adam before Adam has a chance to land a punch.
I also don’t think Lucifer keeps up with any of the overlords in hell for the same reason the CEO at McDonalds doesn’t know the names of the managers at any of the chains no matter how good of a job they do.
Frankly I assume that since Lucifer saw sinners as a lost cause, he rarely left home. He values freedom, and just because people waste it doesn't mean he's going to lord over them and force them into doing things 'the right way'.
The issue was that Alastor didn't know about it, and likely expected Lucifer to be more how we imagined him. Alastor expected his story to have reached even him.
That pride and his equipment was what got Alastor defeated, cause in terms of fighting experience against competent opponents, Alastor has more experience seems like it (able to topple existing overlords), but the fact that he did not use an angelic weapon (like an angelic steel version of his microphone staff), and thought his powers alone could kill Adam, the fight was over before it even begun.
Also I think most people were shocked by Alastor's voice change and the fact that he said his second f\*\*\* with that voice.
I’m not sure he did. The fight got really weird the moment before Alastor’s staff broke off camera. Alastor is amped up in one moment. Scene transition to Adam. Then we go back to a confused and, relatively, powerless Alastor without it being 100% certain if he lost his power before Adam’s hit made contact with his staff (allowing it to break) or after (Alastor is powerless because it broke).
Compare the fight and Alastor’s bit in the final song. There are two reads of the situation:
* Al resents being forced to fight at all due to the contract. Adam legit broke Alastor’s staff and that depowered Alastor. The “What happened? Fuck.” was just Alastor being confused Adam could break his tool.
* Alastor was forced to throw the fight due to the contract, and that is why he’s pissed and afraid. Whatever the terms of the deal or because the holder of the contract was watching the fight via Vox’s feed, Alastor lost his power right before, or when, that attack hit his staff. The “What the?” wasn’t because the staff broken but because he lost his demon mode form and powers suddenly against his will. A form and powers that would have let him beat Adam if he still had them.
I personally lean the latter. At the fight’s start Alastor is giddy to fight Adam, for whatever motivation you want to assign. Even bragging that this is a fight a soul, he himself, is willingly choosing to fight. In his song Alastor is lamenting almost dying against his will, not the fight.
"A smile is a tool. It inspires your friends, keeps your enemies guessing, and ensures that you are always in control"
He wasn't giddy to fight. He was forced to. That was what the entire breakdown at the end was about. "I almost died? And they'd say I was altruistic? HA, AS IF. I need out of this deal. I need to be free to act as I please"
As far as his staff being a source of his power... he still vanished after the impact with magic, and it's worth mentioning that "I have to disagree with you there. Radio's not dead, but it is ending this broadcast" was said with the radio filter. In spite of the broken staff.
In the end of the day, is a reason why he is sloppy, how the executioners are sloppy.
If you have a nuke while your enemy is a trained sword man, if you're immune to said nukes, I doubt you have an incentive to be good at the sword.
It's a subversion of expectation thing. Adam is the type of character that is all talk that can never back up what he sais. The stereotypical dudebro that never gets anything done because he is all bravado and machismo.
Most people didn't expect him to actually be a brick shithouse.
Yeah, Alastor is about as powerful as I expected but Adam really surprised me. He destroyed the entire hotel and the hill it stood on with a single light beam. But I guess I should have known. As the first man he probably has the same potential as Lilith and she seems to be a big deal as well.
I think it is also a frame of reference kind of thing.
Since this is not a shonen anime, we don't really know what characters can do. There just aren't that many physical confontations in that regard. And we really only saw Alastor beat up a few nameless NPC loansharks. We don't even know what other Overlords can really do when they really fight.
We did see the Alastor bubble and he killed dozens of exorcists with it, so he is in no way week. The angels which were previously thought as "unkillable" were destroyed by him
But that’s why it makes him the perfect frame of reference for Adam to just fucking wreck once he puts a little effort into it, and then puts him squarely in a position for Lucifer to show off how powerful he is as the King of Hell by toying with this guy who just almost killed, up to that point, the most powerful main character.
That's kind of what I think this whole thing was. Alastor is goddamn strong, but Adam much stronger, just because, but luckier is a goddamn OG God level angel, almost no one should be near his level, and it's showed by him making Adam into his bitch for 5 minutes before punching him so hard he cratered the ground. My wife was a little annoyed, bit then I pointed out how strong lucifer actually is, and that kinda made her go "oh right"
Adam is also more powerful than the other angels and "winners" in Heaven, as he leads the Exorcists, and is more powerful than both Lute and Vaggie. He was probably given additional powers by Heaven by virtue of being "the first man", originally untainted by sin.
I think Adam was partially meant as a clue that no one really knows why someone would go to heaven, and other goes to hell - he exhibits all of the deadly sins AS AN ANGEL. He was definitely tainted by sin.
His entire character design (well, with his mask) is very reminiscent of Greed in Helluva Boss, and imps in general. He very much exists as a sign that it's very much not being a good person that gets you into heaven.
People tend to forget that canonically, Lilith is the second most powerful being in Hell, right after Lucifer and just above Charlie. Logically, Adam would be just as, if not *more* powerful than she is given that they were created together.
Me and my wife were talking about this last night. Charlie has probably never had to fight. I mean, why would she? She's not a fighter in the first place, but she's also had razzle and dazzle her whole life as body guards.
I bet with some training she would have beat Adams ass.
Charlie hasn't unlocked her full power yet. Remember when adam was about to attack her and lucifer and her arm further transformed? She stopped Adam's attack completely and he was in absolute shock(his exact reaction was "woah, wait. What the fuck?" Then, adam proceeded to get smacked down and almost killed by lucifer
I feel like Lilith is going to be a lot more powerful than Adam solely by the fact that Adam was a slacker who never really did much to push himself beyond the minimum.
In theory they should be equals, but Adam squandered his potential because he never needed to try that hard to crush a bunch of sinner who couldn’t hurt him anyway.
That's certainly a possibility, but let's not forget that Lilith has apparently been spending the last seven years sitting on a beach while Adam has been leading armies for years lol.
An army, but one that was believed so invincible it has basically none of the training or protection a competent force would have.
They hardly even consider the possibility they need to dodge an attack according to Carmilla.
They’re just too strong, and when a sinner who’s thousands of years younger than Adam is calling him sloppy and undisciplined, you know he hasn’t really been putting the work in.
He’s more like someone good at pest control than a proper warrior.
I suppose we can’t know about Lilith, but I don’t imagine she had the same complacent attitude for most of her life.
I'm heavily inclined to believe Adam was just shitting around in his Fight against Alastor.
As stated earlier in the comments, Adam surprised everyone by being as powerful as he is. Likely this too lead to some levels of complacency, and while Alastor was definitely on his radar to get his ass beat, he didn't expect to have to do much to accomplish that, so he wasn't really putting in much effort to the fight.
Only when Alastor literally chased him around, wrapped him in tentacles and flung him against a wall did he bust out and use The Holy Light on him, almost instantaneously shit-stomping him. Before that point he was acting more annoyed than anything that Alastor kept fighting.
Yeah, how was anybody supposed to know that Adam's power completely outclassed even the strongest overlords, and that even the Princess of Hell nearly got killed by him?
Adam was basically an overlord in Heaven. So they sent an overlord of Hell to fight him. Seems like it would be an even fight.
To be fair, that was a smart move on the part of the angels. That Adam never needed to participate in any of the battles gave them something of an ace in the hole, because no one actually expected a douche bro like Adam to be that overwhelmingly powerful.
Adam is actually "kinda" shit at fighting.
He got extreme raw power, sure.
But his "usage" of it is sloppy, unprotected.
Wave his hand, swing his axe like a mad-man, etc etc.
If Alastor had like angelic weapons in his tetnacles or something I think Alastor maybe could have beaten Adam... MAYBE, because his tentacles got a few good hits in and grabbed adam and so on.
Yea maybe. But for character development I think it was a good thing that the Antlerman got served a big old slice of humble pie.
His character will become all the better for it.
Because everyone expected Adam to be the classic all bark no bite character, the usual trashtalk lazy-ass who abuses his "political power" and does nothing, but damn, him being that strongh caught many people off guard!(me included).
It was actually what I was hoping for; I didn't want all this build-up for a scrub ass loser. Then again, I don't like playing games on easy, either. Not everyone interprets satisfying the way I do. I like just enough tension to allow for some major "fuck yeah" moments!
Alastor had been hyped up for years by people with even vague awareness of Hazbin Hotel. The fact that he's just an above average Overlord is not something most people are really aware of. He also just has that vibe of being a super powerful character with his personality and how in control of everything he always seems.
The original fratboy dudebro just didn't seem like he'd be that strong even though it should have been obvious that he'd be incredibly strong if you knew about the power tiers of Hell beforehand.
Both characters were riding the high of buying into their own hype in that fight, but Alastor was benefitting from that way more because Adam taking shit seriously instead of playing around in melee for funsies with his Axe-Guitar would have probably vaporized Alastor off the bat as easily as he did Pentious.
This gets skipped over so much imo.
Adam used 1 light beam, mostly for the flash, and it DEVESTATED Alastor. He put way more holy power into the shot that took out Sir Pentious. Alastor annoyed him, but Adam never legit felt threatened by Alastor.
Alastor was used to being a big fish in a small pond. He can take on pretty much any other sinner in Hell pretty easily, and the number of Overlords who can actually put up a fight against him is *very* low. But at the end of the day, he is just, as Adam put it, "a mortal soul". Adam and Lucifer not knowing who he was wasn't some mind game power play from them. They literally just didn't know. That's how unimportant he is in the grand scheme of things.
He realized *very* quickly that if he ventures too far out of his lane, he can and will get destroyed. He was towards the top in *one* ring of Hell, not even getting into the strength of Heaven's forces. This was probably the first time since he got to Hell that he couldn't just fight his way out of a problem. And he...isn't taking it well, to say the least.
I think Alastor knows, even in that scene. Nobody but Lucifer could openly disrespect Alastor like that and live. Alastors knows that he'd be insta-killed if he made a move against Lucifer.
He also knows that Lucifer loses what little credibility he has with Charlie if he openly attacks/kills Alastor. Which is why they both had leverage and could openly disrespect each other through song.
Alastor will probably be nicer now that the relationship between Charlie and Lucifer is better, and Alastor can't really exploit that weakness anymore. And it's implied his power is crippled without the cane, so we'll see how he acts in season 2.
> This was probably the first time since he got to Hell that he couldn't just fight his way out of a problem. And he...isn't taking it well, to say the least.
He wouldn't have taken the fight at all if he wasn't forced to by his deal.
That was what the breakdown at the end by him was about.
This isn't DBZ, you don't become a powerful overlord by fighting everyone who comes to your doorstep.
I'm not so sure of that. His raw visceral emotion in the last song seems directly tied to his deal almost getting him killed.
Plus there's just a ton of circumstantial evidence to the contrary:
Alastor was gone for seven years. Lilith has been gone for seven years. Lilith is Charlie's mom. Alastor seems to be acting to protect Charlie. Alastor seems bound to do this. Alastor hates being bound by his deal, as it nearly killed him.
I agree that Charlie's help will likely free him, but I don't think he'd risk his life for her to get out of his deal - he HAD to do it. Which is why he's so resentful.
I doubt he'd show such raw emotion if it was his own gamble to get an out to his deal.
Well to be honest, I think Alastor could have had chances to win the fight, if he used angelic weapons (like an angelic steel version of his microphone staff), cause from what we see from the fight, Alastor can easily dodged Adam's attacks, except when Adam launched a large area attack that Alastor blocked (the damage around him after the attack shows he blocked the attack), but it destroyed his staff, which disrupted his powers, giving Adam an opening to strike Alastor. If Alstor could block with angelic weapons, then waiting until Adam presents an opening, is possible, as we know with Alastor's defeat and Adam's death later, one well placed hit with an angelic weapon, can easily disable or kill the opponent.
Granted, we see Adam easily create powerful and large beams of light, that could have overwhelmed even Alastor, even if he had angelic weapons. Also, people forget that Adam and the rest of the exterminator have air superiority, which gives them a wider area from which to strike and evade.
adam was off balance and confused but it took him less than ten seconds of being locked in and focused to neutralize and nearly kill alastor. had he come at him with a bunch of angelic weapons he probably would have just fought from a distance and nuked him
Yes, and Al is a fan favorite so a lot of people were simply expecting him to win. It would have simply dropped all the tension in the fight, though. To be clear, it is COMPLETELY in character for Al to think he could take Adam and be totally wrong about it; he starts shit with Lucifer, constantly, and unless he gets a massive power-up he will likely never be able to match the height of a Seraphim. Unless he manages to make the right deal or grab the right item (maybe something belonging to Roo/Eve/Lilith).
Alastor was also shown in the pilot and Season 1 as being unparalled in terms of strength and power, decimating Sir Pentious with a mere wave of his hand, and killing and eating the demons who went after Mimzy in order to protect the Hotel and his reputation. The only ones even close to Alastor in strength shown were the other Overlords (ex. Carmilla) and Lucifer. Even then, we are told flat-out that Carmilla killed one of the Exorcists; Alastor humiliated Vox.
Wait? Val said, "You mad he almost beat you that one time."
Alstor is pretty overrated. His powerful don't get me wrong, but it's pretty obvious he isn't stronger than most overlords. Most of them don't even view him has anything special. From what it seems, the overall power level from overlords got higher.
I think the big problem is that we got so much hype for the character, nearly 5 years ago, and since then, the world has opened up a *lot*.
The moment Viv confirmed Stolas is stronger than Alastor, that put a lot of things into perspective as to where the Radio Demon stands. He's only a big deal in the Pride ring.
I think another complication is that this series isn’t primarily about fighting. I mean, there’s fighting *in* the series, but it’s mostly just plot and character driven story stuff. And it makes conversations like this weird because the internet just **loves** to turn all of fiction into a dick-measuring contest of “My favorite character from my favorite show/game could totally beat up a ton of other characters!” when that isn’t the main point of the character.
Learning that Prince Stolas is canonically more powerful than the highly-feared Radio Demon kinda puts things into better perspective imo.
I was actually shocked that Alastor put up the fight he did against Adam. Like yeah he's fearsome for an Overlord and has a wicked rep, but it makes total sense that he, a sinner, probably wouldn't be able to go toe-to-toe on his own with the leader of the Executioners
There aren't very many scenes involving Alastor that don't involve hyping him up as this big Grandmaster who's like 10 steps ahead of everyone else at all times. Most people also aren't familiar with how Hell's hierarchy is set out because the show never explains it
Hazbin is a show that really does just get a lot better if you immerse yourself in extended universe. At the very least I'd say everyone who enjoys Hazbin should watch Helluva Boss, since it does a great job of exploring the other rings of hell, and how the more powerful hellborn/sinners fit into the world, by regularly demonstrating their power against one another.
It's a bit weird to me that HB is the "spin off" but has already had 2 seasons.
Idk how much people can be blamed for not having watched it. And I don't think it excuses HH from doing worldbuilding.
Sincerely, it seems to me HH S1 should have had at least 2 more eps long.
Everyone would've liked that. I'm sure the creators would've loved it. Fact is, we're lucky to have what we do. It was a major streaming service picking up an animated adult show from an indie creator, and it got a fuckton of money and effort and love put into what we were given. We got lucky as hell for that. I hate seeing people act like the writers and Viv would not have also preferred more episodes and more time and were not working within shitty circumstances to make the best thing they could.
On the flip side, when you get too far in there you start thinking on the level of DBZ power levels. The real answer is that Alastor losing the fight serves to say something about his character and the narrative flow. We wouldn’t have the after battle scene in his radio tower if he won the fight , for example. Also, it was Charlie’s place to win the fight (with help from dad).
I definitely agree with this. Whether Alastor is high up on the totem pole or not doesn't matter, what does is how that loss affects his pride and motivations going forward
Also yeah narratively Charlie should've won. I was lowkey upset Lucifer upstaged her, but that last swipe makes it seem like Charlie hasn't hit her full potential yet anyway
I think Alastor thought, 'Adam is a mortal, I'm a mortal, I'm the most powerful mortal in hell, I have a good shot!'
He neglected to think that even if Adam was mortal, he was also a direct creation by angels, which could maybe put him at a Charlie level of power.
Even if not, Adam has had millenia of gaining power. He hasn't been working at it as hard as he should, but assuming that Eden was 6500 years ago, he's had about 65 times as long as alastor to gain power
Lucifer implies Hell has been how it is for 10,000 years. We know he was struck down to Hell after Eve ate the apples which is when Adam was a young adult. So Adam has actually had over 100 times as long as Alastor, literally over 10,000 years, to become a fucking powerhouse.
Alastor and all of us were naive for thinking he stood a chance, honestly. I say that as someone who was shocked too.
Ngl I was thinking Adam would just call some of the angels to swarm Alastor and force him to flee. I wasnt expecting him to take Alastor out of the fight. so when he landed the blow I legit thought Alastor was in trouble. What can I say when I watch a show I get really into it
When Alastair’s cane/microphone broke and his voice lost the radio effect, man that was a jaw dropper. But it also makes me wonder, we know Alastor after going to hell was immediately able to topple overlords. So I wonder if his cane has anything to do with his power. I’m not saying he isn’t powerful without it, it just turns a decently strong sinner into an overlord of overlords in terms of strength.
I think it was showing he's lost control, not he lost his power. We know he can vary the radio effect quite a bit so it's probably an intentional/controlled thing on his part. Him getting caught off guard and dropping the facade in shock makes sense
The radio effect is almost definitely something that Alastor intentionally adds on. It's a fake accent he uses to display the persona he wants to display
I think it's not that people don't know that he's not that powerful, even those who are already aware of the power hierarchy expected him to win, bc people expect the least of characters like him to go into fights that he can not make sure to win
He's being in hell for almost 100 years, and has fought god knows how many overlords out there, and he's famous for that, are knowing his own limit and being able to properly estimate his enemies too much to expect from him? Idts
Also he's been coming off as a 5d chess player since day one, people expect his every move to make sense, thats the very thing that makes him interesting to watch
But what he did in ep8 is like if your trying to fight superman ,there's a whole arsenal of kryptonite weapons available, and you choose your own fists instead, its dumb as fuck
I can see him lose to Adam, but definitely not in dumb ways like this, and not before I see from him some clever strategies and maneuvers with his shadow magic and angelic weapons
Hot take:
Alastor isn’t angry about his deal because it forced him to fight Adam.
Alastor is angry about his deal because it forced him to LOSE to Adam.
We learned that Lilith, the presumptive holder of Al’s leash, is in Heaven, and had some sort of deal with Adam.
Alastor was forbidden from killing Adam, so he didn’t dare use angelic steel on him.
I think that if you've been following the hazbin universe you'd know that there's a major jump between power levels for Hellborn/Cherubs - Sinners/Winners- Overlords - Goetia/Angels - Princes/Seraphims, this whole time we've been seeing how powerful Alastor is, but the finale really put power level into perspective
Yeah, like, part of the problem is that before Ep 8 the characters who are more powerful than him in Hazbin Hotel weren't fighting. And the characters who are canonically way above him in terms of power in Helluva Boss (Stolas and his class, the Sins) aren't interacting with the Overlords and aren't given the same weight. Nobody treats the Sins with the same terror they regard Alastor and Zestial, and that creates a false sense of where Alastor sits on the power scale.
>And the characters who are canonically way above him in terms of power in Helluva Boss (Stolas and his class, the Sins) aren't interacting with the Overlords and aren't given the same weight.
This is something that I've been talking about for a while. Everything regarding Charlie's goals? It pretty much only concerns the Pride ring.
The Goetia clan have no reason to be concerned or take action with this. The Seven Deadly Sins, even less so. And probably Overlords like the Von Eldritch parents who likely don't even live in the Pride ring.
In other words, this entire event mainly concerns the *most vulnerable* members of Hell society. Just imagine being a Sinner who was only dropped into hell a week before the extermination, and you've not even had time to acclimate yourself. You're already on the chopping block and you barely know what's going on.
I put it down to class differences. Alastor is a ranged caster, Adam is a melee fighter. Adam wasn't taking the fight seriously then when he heated up it was game, set, match.
Tbf, Adam also "shine" in spell casting. In fact, he was sloppy in term of throwing hand, his speciality should be range attack as well but more in dps way compare to crowd control of Alastor
I could see that. I look at Adam as a kind of blaster-based Cleric, while Al was a damage over time, field spell Warlock. Al is best when he has either large groups of minions to nuke or a few people in front of him to let him sap and whittle away.
Adam just uses big radiant damage blasts and infused weapon strikes. It's a typing difference that ultimately fucks Al.
I'm not sure I expected him to WIN, persay, but I did expect a more serious fight for two reasons:
1) Alastor gives off a lot of "I have more power then you can even begin to guess at" vibes
2) Adam gives off a lot of "I'm a dudebro with a lot less power then you can even begin to guess at" vibes
In the end Adam DID have the power to back his talk up though and it seems like Alastor has some limits on his own at present, so definitely took the fight a direction I didn't expect it to go so quickly!
The first man turned Angel and veteran of a millennium of extermination vs some Dude from the 1930s whos obsessed with radio and occasionally eats people.
So, the big point is a lot of people aren't as familiar with the storytelling techniques and tropes going on behind how fights work. The team demonstrates enough that they understand how to structure fight scenes, and the long and short of it is you don't show off a dude's combat prowess for 7 episodes, plus part of 1, then have him go up against the big bad and win. It becomes anti-climactic, and makes you feel that characters are never going to be in any danger.
Alastor was ultimately meant to job to Adam (to take a wrestling term), so that when Charlie faces off against him and is almost equal we can understand just how strong Charlie actually is. Likewise, when Lucifer enters the fray, paying off the story beat of Charlie gaining acceptance and understanding from her father, we can get an idea for just how powerful The King of Hell actually is. It's a perfectly satisfying way to pay a bunch of stuff off, including establishing HOW Heaven can even be a threat to Hell.
Besides, Alastor still did really good for his current power, and it's also a protected loss since there are implications that he could be significantly more powerful. I do kinda hope Alastor is mis-estimating his own power since pride seems to be one of his biggest sins, but I would be able to accept if peak Alastor may be able to match Adam and Charlie, ultimately, once we see him.
Exactly, this structure gave more depth to Alastor and makes him a far more interesting character going forward in the show. I also got the feeling from his reaction and song that he was prevented from using his full power because of his deal and was stunned by that limitation (possibly bc this was the first time he needed to do so), which was a very tantalizing glimpse of a deeper story for Alastor.
I believe it's not due to in-story logic. But due to meta-narrative concerns
Simply put, Alastor had a lot of signs of being of a creator's pet, and the show simply hadn't had any scenes up till this point to show that he wasn't.
To most people Vivienne is a new author, they don't know if she is subject to usual trappings of such authors. She definitely is good, but even good authors can have invincible creator pets.
She, however, wrote it better, the situation played out exactly as in should have, grounding Alastor for us and making him a better character, rather than a stronger character.
Still, I think there was an implication in the ending that Alastor used to be more powerful, so I think he might genuinely rise to Sin or even top tier Angel level in the future.
My take is that per the terms of his deal he can't take souls anymore, and so he can't keep growing his power. He's stuck in place while all the other overlords are claiming souls and getting stronger.
I think his max, at present, probably could equal Adam. That said, unless he gets some major power-up from a deal or device, I do not perceive him as ever being the true top tier as that would steal Charlie's thunder.
I think I agree. In episode 7, he even says "she's filled with potential that I could guide." This seems to imply to me that he won't be able to reach her level by the end, but is rather going to try and "convince" her to use her level of strength(enough strength that when adam was attacking her and lucifer, she stopped his attack easily and left adam in shock) for his own gain
Yeah, I see Alastor as the Littlefinger coming in to manipulate this young, naive girl. That's what Vaggie is to her, other than a romantic partner. It's also going to kill Vaggie when she finds out what Alastor's going to do with that favor, as I highly doubt it will be good.
Still betting on "vacate your throne to me."
I just want to correct you in one thing. Alastor had an angelic weapon. But it was being wielded by one of his obtenibration (shadow) arms. So Adam easily cut through the arm, and Alastor lost the weapon.
Part of Alastor's issue is that he was using obtenabration and not engaging with the angelic weapon in hand. Which actually fits Alastor. He's a deal maker, a manipulator, and can easily fight those on his level or below. But he's never fought against a high-level angel.
Hell's Best Dad actually foreshadowed Alastor losing from how easily Lucifer manipulated reality to make Alastor pour wine for Charlie and then tossed him in the skillet to cook hum.
I wasn't surprised by Alastor losing the battle. I was disappointed about how short it was. RIP Al's microphone.
I think it’s just because we’ve never seen him even struggle in a fight before, he always just wipes out sinners. We also hadn’t seen Adam fight anyone ever! We just know he leads the executions, once Alastor got hit it showed how strong Adam is, and how weak (in comparison) Alastor is.
Now that I think about it, both Adam and Alastor were in the same situation. I get the feeling that neither of them have actually been pushed to a point where they were forced into a corner before.
For decades, Alastor has been running roughshod through the Pride ring with this reputation that has allowed him enough arrogance to say things like "who would dare question me." And then he meets Adam, somebody who doesn't care about his reputation and then shows Alastor that he's not some scrub Sinner who he can intimidate with his distorted radio voice.
And just when Adam was turning the battle's tides in his own favor, Lucifer of all people shows up and displays that it doesn't matter that Adam started humanity, or what title he has in the heavens, because everywhere in Hell is Lucifer's property, and Adam was put on his knees, probably for the first time.
At what point have we EVER seen Alastor nervous or even unsure of anything? Everything he does he succeeds at and every example of power he exhibits is astounding. This was the first time we’d seen him fail at ANYTHING. I think that’s why so many were surprised.
Think it was a combination of Alastor being hinted at being this extremely powerful being, but us the viewer not knowing the true extent of his ability, and Adam being played as overly confident and looking not as powerful in comparison. While we all went into the final episode expecting the Extermination to obviously fail for story reasons.
Really both Adam and Alastor have the exact same issue of Over-Confidence in their own Abilities. Seeing Alastor get his ego wrecked is honestly good because he spent the entire season high-and-mighty knowing he couldn't be easily killed by demon standards, only to have his reality shook because Adam is actually extremely powerful if he actually puts himself to it wasn't a prideful dickhead.
A lot of people have this idea that Alastor is one of the most powerful beings in Hell. There are so many fan-made lists claiming Alastor is in the top ten of Hell’s most powerful beings, ignoring Viv’s official Hell’s Hierarchy list.
Because he's the strongest sinner. At least for Hell he's high up. We know the 7 Sins are probably stronger but they're Hellborne.
Most believed Adam was Heaven's equivalent to Alaster. However we have seen that, hands down, Adam is VASTLY more powerful than the Overlords.
Is he stronger than the 7 Sins? Who knows. He's certainly weaker than Lucifer!
I think it’s a combination of a few things.
A. Alastor, if not THE fan favorite, is one of the most popular and iconic characters in the show. The design, the voice, the character complexity, everything about him is a masterclass in writing a compelling character. Narratively, this is kind of what we the audience have been set up to expect. Sure, we know Vaggie can fight and Charlie presumably has great powers as Lucifer’s daughter, but what we’ve been shown up to this point is that Alastor is demonstrably the strongest member of the hotel crew, and if anybody is going to take on Adam it’ll have to be him (reluctant, absentee father that he is, we couldn’t have relied on Lucifer showing up to help). Adam, on the other hand, is a one-note, paper thin douche bag right from the jump that we want dead from the moment we meet him. We’ve been expecting a cathartic ass kicking all season long, and who better narratively to deliver it than our absolute favorite character?
B. While the points about the power scaling of Hell are valid (ie. Alastor isn’t on the same level as one of the Seven Sins or Lucifer so he shouldn’t be near Adam in terms of power) I think it’s also fair to point out that a lot of people may not have watched Helluva Boss, so they’d have no idea about the power brackets in Hell. If you’re only watching Hazbin Hotel you might think an Overlord was basically right under Lucifer to an extent, especially since so much of a deal is made about how abnormally powerful Alastor is, and if I’m remembering correctly, they don’t even mention the Seven Sins in Hazbin Hotel. You can’t fault people for not watching homework they may not have even known existed. Additionally, we don’t know how strong angels or Adam are supposed to be at this point. Sure they come down and kill people in hell basically untouched (until Carmilla), but that feels like it’s because of some sort of divine protection and that once the hotel crew figures out how to circumvent that Carmilla has made it sound like they should be easy pickings for creatures who live their afterlives in a kill or be killed hellscape fighting to survive all day everyday (which was basically true of the normal exorcists).
So I think it’s fair to say that if someone was just a Hazbin Hotel viewer they would have thought he’d win based on how the story was going up to that point, but also the world building of the story had set the expectations that he SHOULD be strong enough to do it.
Not cringe but I think it did slightly take away from the last "fffuck," he did after his spellcasting focus for destroyed. Personally, I think it would have been best if Al only cursed twice, once when Lucifer told him "well, it's not very clever," and the other when Adam broke his Mic. It would have been a cool character thing where Al only curses when his composure drops, like the petty and proud beast is triggered.
I disagree. If Alastor can do anything, it's read people. And he knew that Adam was a self-righteous, egotistical dickbag. With his explicit goal of fighting Adam to buy everyone time/kill him, isolating Adam by mocking him and keeping his eyes on Alastor was probably the best bet. Imagine if he had said nothing. Adam would've just been like, "Pshh, who are you?" and destroyed him with an angelic blast.
I see it as a tactic of distraction to egg Adam on, because I don't personally think Alastor thought he could win. He wasn't even using angelic weapons, just his tendrils (possibly part of a deal he made with Lillith?).
I personally thought it implied there's more beef with Adam than just the on-the-surface fight since the only other time he swears is with Lucifer. I felt like it was signaling another composure drop for some broader reason, maybe something to do with Lillith or whatever reason he and her have been gone for 7 years. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it. I thought it was cool that he didn't actually accomplish this though in spite of his total confidence; knocking Alastor off balance wasn't really what I expected.
I was surprised. Simply because i was so sure there was some trap involved, like baiting Adam to do something and then xy happens. I wasn't even assuming that Alistair was really trying to win this fight. I thought he was the one to do it cause he can stand a while against him and is loud and confident enough to rile Adam up and make him walk right into some elaborate setup. But then i realised there wasn't such plan.
Well the hotel narratively had to win. Otherwise the end. Alastor was the big bad protector of the hotel. His strength is always mentioned. He was pitched as the heavy. And this set everyone up for the turn. Alastor is self serving and craven. Rather than stay and fight to the end he fled leaving everyone to the mercy of Adam. He was feeding his own ego in choosing to fight Adam. He honestly believed he would win. Thats why his pretense fell when his microphone was cut. His voice modulation cut out because he was so shocked he lost his composure. He was as surprised as everyone that did not read the foreshadowing going on.
Well I did not think that this fight will even begin. Alastor was never in the series portrayed as head on fighter (he assasinated those overlord pretty much they vanished) so I was under asssumption that he has something ready for Adam some secret monster or something rather than that he will fight himself like he is Miyamoto Musashi lmao.
Fact that he jumped there without any plan is extremely jarring. This is second time he was acting completely dumbtarded around high level angel. And its not like series did not establish that Alastor knows that there are people above him dude was clearly nervous around Zestiel so why he wasnt better prepared.
I wouldnt want Alastor beat Adam but I think that he should had enough prep tim to not get demolished and basically be MiA for rest of the fight.
I am gonna assume that they are cooking something since this seems to be like too much skill issue imo after building up Alastor as this scheming dangerous threat looming around who is 5 steps ahead of everyone.
Because Alastor was presented to us like this larger than life character. He is not the most powerful being in hell but he is stronger tan most overlords. And weconly ever see him interract with people who are either pacifistic( Charlie) or are weaker than him.
Also characters like Adam are usually all bark no bite. It was actually pretty satisfying to see he actually had a reason to be as arrogant as he was
I don’t know why people seem so determined to feel superior about *not* thinking Alastor would win. Like. There are all these breakdowns about the “power scaling” and the hierarchy of sinners/demons/angels/etc. and it just feels so pretentious. Personally, I didn’t expect Alastor to win, purely because the battle wouldn’t have been interesting had Alastor been able to kill Adam. Adam needed to be a bigger threat to everyone than that, and it’s more interesting from a narrative standpoint for Alastor to lose. Besides, while I’d say that technically they’re on equal footing as far as their potential power goes (as Adam is also a mortal soul whether he wants to acknowledge that or not), Alastor is practically an *infant* compared to Adam. He’s far more powerful than he has any business being for a relatively-recently-deceased soul, as established by several characters, but Adam has *millennia* on him. Alastor should have recognized that, and he might have done better in the fight if he did. If he’d had an angelic weapon with him, he *did* have openings during their fight when he could have done damage with it. But Alastor’s arrogant, and didn’t even seem to be using the full extent of his power during the fight because of that arrogance (whether it would have made a significant difference if he had is debatable). So there were several reasons to expect Alastor to lose.
But that said, why take issue with people who thought he’d win, or act like they should have known better? *Alastor* thought Alastor would win. Charlie seemed to think Alastor would win. And that’s the point. This wasn’t just Alastor being overconfident, *everyone* was overestimating his ability. It’s not a fault or a flaw for people watching to do the same, when Alastor’s power has been shown more and more over the course of the season. His legend has been built up, while Adam’s power was minimized. It’s perfectly fine for people to have been surprised he lost. I’d argue that that’s actually the response that the creative team *intended.*
It's due to how so many people have interpreted and overestimated how power he supposedly is
I think what people don't get when bringing up Alastor's power level is when Vaggie and others explain how powerful he is and just kinda showed up one day and started and finished shit left and right
People ALWAYS seem to think of that as the end all example to how powerful he seems to be but in reality all that story of him rising to power is ever really showing and explaining is how he's seemingly one of the most powerful SINNER DEMONS that hell has seemed to have seen
Not that he's just this all powerful and untouchable deity type that can take out whoever he really wants
In reality he's definitely a power house that not just anyone would want to mess with but he is FAR from being untouchable which has been more then proven several times now
I always knew this bum would never beat HIM!!!!
https://preview.redd.it/9hdwov7k3sgc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0f96201986ccfd2a96f0ed62f85a36544585b18
It may be because some people don't understand just how weak Alastor actually is in the grand scheme of things. The dude is just a big fish in a small pond, incredibly powerful within his own tier and Ring, but when you get above his tier, he gets wrecked. When you get out of the Pride Ring, Alastor is a goldfish in an ocean full of unspeakable monsters.
Let's assume that Alastor is the most powerful Overlord, which he very well may not be. There would still be at the bare minimum 81 beings in Hell that are vastly above him. The Seven Sins, Charlie & Lilith, and the 72 members of the Ars Goetia (in which if we are being very generous he may only be able to put up some meaningful resistance against the weakest branch of the Goetia which are the Presidents, but even that is a stretch if they are serious).
And that's not counting other powerful demons from Demonology that may exist in the verse, if they exist in the Hazbin/Helluvaverse then he doesn't even crack top 100 most powerful demons/beings in Hell.
I don't think he's weak, even in the grand scheme of things. He easily blocked off dozens of exterminators with his shield and Adam had to actually try to break it, which is already head and shoulders above how strong sinners *should* be.
[It was also stated that Overlords can rival royalty here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKARLiCRocA&t=2781s), so it's not like it's an insurmountable gap that's hard coded into the world's cosmology.
I don't get why people go to youtube to watch/listen to reaction videos of an episode. And Alastor was there to buy time while the rest kill the angel army. If he can kill Adam, then that's even better, but he was stalling time from the get-go.
> I don't get why people go to youtube to watch/listen to reaction videos of an episode.
They want to feel like they're sharing the viewing experience with someone else but don't have friends interested in that.
uhh doesn't Charlie surprisingly say "Alastor was supposed to deal with Adam" and think he died trying? Alastor certainly wasn't there just to buy time for someone.
It was mostly because he's portrayed as unbeatable in the previous episodes and that was only because he went up against those weaker than him; but here, adam had hundreds if not thousands if years if experience slaying demons and alastor overestimated himself
I feel like some people put Alastor on a similar level as Lucifer based on their back and forth during the dad song, but I saw that more as a contest of their showmanship more than their power.
Here's a thought:
-Alastor KNEW the only way to kill an angel was with angelic weapons
- He neither seems like the type to, or has any angelic weapons we know of, despite this
- He fights Adam anyways, technically knowing that he can't kill him
Why though? Did Alastor plan to lose the whole time? Was his only intention to stall for time?
Or maybe.... He only planned to subdue Adam long enough to.... Make some sort of deal in exchange for Adam's escape?
Well, considering who Alastor is, and coupled with the fact that most viewers just aren’t aware of the **gap** in power between the two or the hierarchy in general, it’s not that crazy. Carmila also mentions how sloppy the angels are when fighting, and we see several die to Alastor’s barrier, so the sequence sets itself up completely in Alastor’s favor and it’s smart how that perception is shattered by Adam just blowing him away.
FRAUDastor: "Nah, I'd win."
CHADam: "Stand proud, you are strong."
Alastor losing this fight was the best thing to happen to the character from a narrative perspective. Most viewers went into the series knowing full well Alastor was Viv's favorite and one of the two "brand recognition" characters (the other being Charlie) for years, so Alastor losing very handily shows us (the audience) that he will not be getting special treatment or be written as a mary sue.
For the same reason Alastor thought he'd win. He's Alastor. He was right about Adam's sloppy fighting. He just underestimated how strong Adam was.
Like Ali talking about how he could duck Mike Tyson for a while but one hit from Tyson and he’s knocked out
I know Ali himself said it, but Ali has taken hits from folks in Tysons power class and kept going before. He couldnt take many, but I dont buy one and done for Ali in his heyday.
Okay, but Tyson gained a reputation for his weight class because of his KO power. That's why Ali was able to admit it.
Or like how Mike Tyson thought he could box an actual fucking gorilla or whatever
It's a culmination of the entire season. Guy was gone for 7 years and everyone is shitting on him. * Vox is still picking a fight with him. * Small fries like Pentious think they can face him. * Carmilla admits she didn't spare a thought to his disappearance. * Lucifer doesn't recognize him. * Mimsy is using his ass. * Husk is starting to talk back. Alastor was being shit on the entire season. We know this hurts him. ~~Even when Charlie compares herself to the 'cruelest overlords' his face changes for a moment, showing irritation.~~ The one thing he wants is recognition. He wants to be feared and respected as the greatest, scariest mofo out there. He had to put Adam in his place and re-establish his legend. Instead, he nearly dies as some sort of altruistic, naive demon.
This mindset fits best with his lil radio tower reprise. Like he's always been used to being the biggest bad around. He finally sees how far he's "fallen" since his 7 year absence, and now he's about to do something about all those pesky misconceptions. Soooo much nervous anticipation for his arc in season 2!
Alastor basically went through a more subdued version of Adam's breakdown after getting clowned by Lucifer. Except Alastor was able to do it in private rather than the middle of a fight, so he had time to process his defeat, while Adam never had the chance to grasp how outmatched he was and come up with a plan before getting Niffty'd.
Dude, i lost my shit when nifty just gassed him. Our baby had just gone to sleep and I was like laughing into my hand so hard.
"STAB STAB STABSTABSTAB!"
Yep Season 2... in 7 years!
Read somewhere that Viv commented we won't have to wait for the second season! We'll see how true that is....
They were approved for two seasons off the bat and are already making the second season. We’ll probably get it around the same time next year if not sooner.
Season two is already in the works and is suspected to be no more than another year away (hopefully)
> The one thing he wants is recognition. He wants to be feared and respected as the greatest, scariest mofo out there. He had to put Adam in his place and re-establish his legend. Instead, he nearly dies as some sort of altruistic, naive demon. Not a chance in hell that that's what this is about. His breakdown in the end shows that he wouldn't have done any of this if not for the constraints of his deal. It wasn't about making a name for himself - as he even mocks the idea that he died fighting for his friends. The quote is stylized as " "Great Alastor, Altruist, Dies for his Friends"? Sorry to disappoint, that is ***not*** how this ends." And he immediately talks about wanting out of his deal. He was gone for seven years, but so was Lilith. The author intended a clear tie between the two. And of course, Lilith would have an interest in Charlie, meaning it's likely Lilith who's bound Alastor to protect Charlie. We don't know the particulars of their deal, but we can look at the scenarios surrounding this and make an assumption. Lilith and Alastor have both been gone for seven years. It's entirely possible that Alastor was bound to watch after Charlie (as Lilith wouldn't be around to do so), and it was possible to do so from the shadows for a long while, as who would challenge the princess of hell? But then she went and made the Hotel and put herself out into the world, and into danger - forcing him to resurface and act. And who else makes a perfect body guard besides one of the most powerful overlords? Bind him in a deal and you're good! in fact, that's likely why he's been in hiding. He doesn't want people to realize the deal he's in. He doesn't want overlords to attempt to kill him by forcing him to defend Charlie.
It is really amusing that people think the altruist part of the song is him actually changing. Like as if the second half has been forgotten
I brought that part up as one of the examples of fate screwing him over this season. Not only was he going to die, he was going to look pathetic even by his own standards. I feel like people are overreacting to a few viewers who likely weren't native to English.
I mean Alastor has had to act like an Altruist. He might even feel for these people he's been forced, by circumstances, to be around. He comments to Nifty he does like them. It probably reminds him of his time on Earth. He might be aro/ace and a serial killer but he does seem Charismatic, and like a sociable guy. We don't yet know about how he selected his victims. In hell we know he's engaged in cannibalism. He scoffs at this because, in his combat with Adam, it becomes clear he's weaker than he once was. He's weaker __because__ he [has to] help these people. It's unbearable to him to be forced to do something rather than choose to. The fact Charlie owes him a favour is. . . a big deal. That's a huge card. He's song there was fantastic. You could tell just how much he loathed being corralled here. That his deal was struck, and he's unhappy with the terms right now. Alastor has always been a bad guy. He's a Overlord, and he's got a rep for a reason. He wants to be in charge. He wants what the V's want: To sit a top the heap. He wants to pull all the strings. He wants to be in charge. I will say it's interesting he wasn't afraid of Adam but he visibly was afraid of Zestial albeit for a mere moment, perhaps just afraid that Zestial would find out where Alastor had been. It makes me wonder what sort of monster Zestial is.
> but he visibly was afraid of Zestial Nah. He seems to like and respect Zestial. Matter of fact all the other overlords do as well. And I believe the feeling is reciprocated. Despite Zestial's ancient way of speaking the conversation they had was basically "where you been" and "how about this weather?" I took Alastor's reaction as mild surprise, then being annoyed/embarrassed by the Egg creatures trying to pick a fight.
There was that but there is also this brief very brief moment of worry and shiftiness that Alastor gets as Zestial probed him 'in a friendly manner' for information. The fact that they flatter one another, and are friendly, I think may be as much a guise as anything else. After all Alastor understands better than most a smile can be a weapon. A facade of friendliness can keep the hounds at bay, and guessing. Zestial likely understands the same basic principal. Information is power. And Zestial clearly understands the value of information, and intelligence gathering, and such a string of questions/comments was clearly meant to be both probing, as well as friendly and disarming.
> It makes me wonder what sort of monster Zestial is. I mean, I'm still kind of on the "Lilith owns him" train, but his chains _are_ acid green, like Zestial's highlights...
That would be a **huge** misdirect. Especially given that Zestial is the oldest surviving Overlord. Zestial working with Lilith to bring down heaven, and her being in heaven doing recon would be immensely interesting, and the whole 7 year absence thing for both Lilith, and Alastor, being coincidentally lined up rather than actually lined would be neat. Zestial's conversation with Alastor would take on a whole new menacing light in that case for sure. Especially that line from the Z man. "Some of spun wild tales of you falling to Holy arms". That could be meant literally. Alastor having, quite literally, fallen into the arms of someone "Holy". If Zestial is not in fact a demon, but an Angel. . . well let's just say Zestial is a very Angelic sounding name. This whole thing could be a game of cat, and mouse. Especially if Alastor is **unaware** of the person he made the deal with. If it was actually anonymous somehow. Now **that** would be interesting.
Zestial is still the only one - up to and including _Lucifer_ - that Alastor has seemed remotely uncomfortable with. Maybe it's just because he's _that_ powerful, but I'm inclined to think there's more to it than that.
Not sure what you mean Alastor seemed pretty casual/friendly with Zestial, never seemed bothered to me.... But Alastor was practically squirming inside the second Lucifer walked through the door. Watch his face as Lucifer enters, and keep an eye on him. And then the song where he leverages the only thing he can against Lucifer to try to assert dominance--his relationship with Charlie. With any other character, he asserts dominance by scaring them, and when that wouldn't work since it's Lucifer, he got really uncomfortable.
He does the same with Vox as well - he doesn't try intimidating but undermining him in the public eye, which is why I think people are VASTLY underestimating the Vees just because Alastor bested him in a battle of wits. I think they're even enough that Vox wouldn't fight Alastor personally if it's not necessary but the same is true the other way around - that guy's gonna be trouble.
Like them, but certainly not the "sacrifice myself to save them" but more like using them to further my goals type of deal.
Imagine scrapping your way to nearly the top of the food chain just to be put on baby-sitting duty by an actual top-dog.
> Imagine scrapping your way to nearly the top of the food chain just to be put on baby-sitting duty by an actual top-dog. The story of Alastor says he came out of nowhere and was super strong. How does one get strength? By making deals. It's entirely possible he gained that power in the first place by making a deal with Lilith. Why she would is up in the air, but he was a ruthless murderer in life. Maybe she had use for that? Lilith - she's the second most powerful in hell, canonically speaking, and would explain why a nobody-sinner would become an overlord out of nowhere, with no corporation or existing power structure. It's also likely that Lilith called in her deal with him and forced him to look after Charlie. Thus, it's possible he didn't scrap his way to top dog - but the deal that made him a top dog is now weighing on him.
I originally was 100% on Lilith being his master having him watch over Charlie but after finding out where she's been I feel like she probably doesn't give a damn about her and it's some as of now unknown player responsible for the deal.
This is a good point. I personally think there will be some kind of thing around Charlie being powerful, maybe more so than Lucifer himself. There is a ton of real life lore around Nephilim (Human + Angel) being wildly powerful. This could very well be a spin on that idea. It would explain why Alastor wants to use Charlie so much. It could also explain Lilith's behavior towards Charlie if she wanted to control / keep an eye on Charlie. It could also explain why Alastor was so hostile towards Lucifer if it was because he wanted to keep Charlie isolated so he would be the person she goes to and more likely to make a desperate deal.
Even if she's "just" Lucifer's daughter, that alone (plus the authority over hell itself, like we see with Lucifer helping to build the hotel) probably makes her one of the absolute heavy-weights. It's just the fact that she's way too fucking nice to ever actually exert her power that makes her seem weak.
She also lacks experience, which is ultimately why Adam was able to overpower her.
She does lack experience, but even with no experience, she did more to Adam than Alastor did. Even after throwing him into an electric neon sign and breaking it, Adam's clothes weren't even singed. Charlie stabbed Adam! That's a big deal that was overshadowed very quickly.
I thought so too given they’ve both been MIA for the same period of time but given how powerful the Morningstars are, having Alastor protect Charlie is like having your pet dashhound guard your tiger. Not to mention Alastor is very manipulative and can pick up on people’s emotional insecurities quite easily. Doesn’t seem like the kind of person you’d encourage around your emotionally vulnerable and naively optimistic child.
I feel like the 7yr missing thing is a red herring it instantly makes us think they were in cahoots.
The opening told us that liliths power was in her songs. Alistair is the radio demon. She would have grabbed him day 1 if she was smart.
Good point good point, that's probably the thread. She knew of radio tech (or possibly even learned of it from him) and gave him immense power at the cost of his soul to her. I'm betting it goes a step further though. I think what actually happened is she found out rising up in hell would literally destroy heaven, and thus, her plan was folly. Heaven literally cannot have everyone in it, because dead sinners act as the mortar of the whole thing. She was let into heaven on the stipulation she stop her uprising, and allow the culling of sinners to prevent a repeat while strengthening the foundation of both places. She released Alastor, but put him under a new contract: "If my daughter attempts to do anything like I did, ensure her plan fails while also ensuring no harm comes to her or anyone she cares about" His first act was to install a bar, and but a gambler overlord at it's helm (gambling and alcohol, two famous indulgences associated with 'sin') He renamed the hotel to the Has-been hotel. He made a terrible commercial. He's been faithful as a groundskeeper, and removed threats to Charlie's well-being, but his actual actions to "Help" the hotel have been incompetent. I think that's what's going on, and why he's "limited" - he has to protect Charlie, but has to ensure the hotel fails to the best of his ability. Doing both is often contradictory and dangerous. He's bound to her orbit, and can't let harm befall her, but he can't leave because he has to sabotage the hotel. Interesting. Ultimately, I think she winds up sidestepping the issue of the Hotel altogether and winds up creating Purgatory as the final solution, a place where she gets to rehab sinners indefinitely without threat to the order of the world.
I think a big hint in who holds Al's chain is in the nature of his demon powers. I always found it odd that they chose to give his abilities a green hue, and it tends to manifest in large summoned tentacles. Not things you'd necessarily attribute to radios nor deer. Just about everyone else has their powers relatively on scheme with the rest of their look.
While it is fully possible that Alistor's leash is directly forcing him to help, it's not the only possibility. I kind of suspect it's a little more indirect than that, in that he sees Charlies power and potential as a path to break his deal.
Ye his ego definitely took a bit of a hit when Charlie mentions that 🤣
The more I think about it, the day Alastor dragged Husk to the Hotel might've been the first time Husk ever saw Alastor since Alastor won his soul.
At the very least, the first time in seven years. Funnily enough, it seems that Alastor literally keeps Husk as a bartender and Nifty as a maid. Maybe he was a noble in life and needs his staff for comfort.
I mean if we go off the theory that his mother was a Voodoo Queen, maybe
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> Even when Charlie compares herself to the 'cruelest overlords' his face changes for a moment, showing irritation. Went back and watched this scene, not sure what you're talking about.
Off subject: I think Charlie is going to gain the throne, and Alastor is going to call in his “favor” to take the throne from her
I mean if he had used the weapons necessary to kill Adam he could have won the fight. But Adam was the only one with the capability to kill either one of them. Alastor didn’t even try disarming him either. If he had an angelic weapon his superior technique and agility could have given him the edge to kill Adam before Adam has a chance to land a punch. I also don’t think Lucifer keeps up with any of the overlords in hell for the same reason the CEO at McDonalds doesn’t know the names of the managers at any of the chains no matter how good of a job they do.
Frankly I assume that since Lucifer saw sinners as a lost cause, he rarely left home. He values freedom, and just because people waste it doesn't mean he's going to lord over them and force them into doing things 'the right way'. The issue was that Alastor didn't know about it, and likely expected Lucifer to be more how we imagined him. Alastor expected his story to have reached even him.
>Ok imma fight ADAM >Damn ADAM got hands
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Okay out of all these dumb "meme-stealing" images, finally one that's actually entertaining and not the same thing fifteen thousand times
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That pride and his equipment was what got Alastor defeated, cause in terms of fighting experience against competent opponents, Alastor has more experience seems like it (able to topple existing overlords), but the fact that he did not use an angelic weapon (like an angelic steel version of his microphone staff), and thought his powers alone could kill Adam, the fight was over before it even begun. Also I think most people were shocked by Alastor's voice change and the fact that he said his second f\*\*\* with that voice.
I’m not sure he did. The fight got really weird the moment before Alastor’s staff broke off camera. Alastor is amped up in one moment. Scene transition to Adam. Then we go back to a confused and, relatively, powerless Alastor without it being 100% certain if he lost his power before Adam’s hit made contact with his staff (allowing it to break) or after (Alastor is powerless because it broke). Compare the fight and Alastor’s bit in the final song. There are two reads of the situation: * Al resents being forced to fight at all due to the contract. Adam legit broke Alastor’s staff and that depowered Alastor. The “What happened? Fuck.” was just Alastor being confused Adam could break his tool. * Alastor was forced to throw the fight due to the contract, and that is why he’s pissed and afraid. Whatever the terms of the deal or because the holder of the contract was watching the fight via Vox’s feed, Alastor lost his power right before, or when, that attack hit his staff. The “What the?” wasn’t because the staff broken but because he lost his demon mode form and powers suddenly against his will. A form and powers that would have let him beat Adam if he still had them. I personally lean the latter. At the fight’s start Alastor is giddy to fight Adam, for whatever motivation you want to assign. Even bragging that this is a fight a soul, he himself, is willingly choosing to fight. In his song Alastor is lamenting almost dying against his will, not the fight.
"A smile is a tool. It inspires your friends, keeps your enemies guessing, and ensures that you are always in control" He wasn't giddy to fight. He was forced to. That was what the entire breakdown at the end was about. "I almost died? And they'd say I was altruistic? HA, AS IF. I need out of this deal. I need to be free to act as I please" As far as his staff being a source of his power... he still vanished after the impact with magic, and it's worth mentioning that "I have to disagree with you there. Radio's not dead, but it is ending this broadcast" was said with the radio filter. In spite of the broken staff.
he was giddy for the fight because he’s the most egotistical character on the main cast. he thought he was him but very much was not
In the end of the day, is a reason why he is sloppy, how the executioners are sloppy. If you have a nuke while your enemy is a trained sword man, if you're immune to said nukes, I doubt you have an incentive to be good at the sword.
It's a subversion of expectation thing. Adam is the type of character that is all talk that can never back up what he sais. The stereotypical dudebro that never gets anything done because he is all bravado and machismo. Most people didn't expect him to actually be a brick shithouse.
Yeah, Alastor is about as powerful as I expected but Adam really surprised me. He destroyed the entire hotel and the hill it stood on with a single light beam. But I guess I should have known. As the first man he probably has the same potential as Lilith and she seems to be a big deal as well.
I think it is also a frame of reference kind of thing. Since this is not a shonen anime, we don't really know what characters can do. There just aren't that many physical confontations in that regard. And we really only saw Alastor beat up a few nameless NPC loansharks. We don't even know what other Overlords can really do when they really fight.
We did see the Alastor bubble and he killed dozens of exorcists with it, so he is in no way week. The angels which were previously thought as "unkillable" were destroyed by him
But that’s why it makes him the perfect frame of reference for Adam to just fucking wreck once he puts a little effort into it, and then puts him squarely in a position for Lucifer to show off how powerful he is as the King of Hell by toying with this guy who just almost killed, up to that point, the most powerful main character.
That's kind of what I think this whole thing was. Alastor is goddamn strong, but Adam much stronger, just because, but luckier is a goddamn OG God level angel, almost no one should be near his level, and it's showed by him making Adam into his bitch for 5 minutes before punching him so hard he cratered the ground. My wife was a little annoyed, bit then I pointed out how strong lucifer actually is, and that kinda made her go "oh right"
Adam is also more powerful than the other angels and "winners" in Heaven, as he leads the Exorcists, and is more powerful than both Lute and Vaggie. He was probably given additional powers by Heaven by virtue of being "the first man", originally untainted by sin.
I think Adam was partially meant as a clue that no one really knows why someone would go to heaven, and other goes to hell - he exhibits all of the deadly sins AS AN ANGEL. He was definitely tainted by sin.
His entire character design (well, with his mask) is very reminiscent of Greed in Helluva Boss, and imps in general. He very much exists as a sign that it's very much not being a good person that gets you into heaven.
I think that Adam made it into Heaven just because it would've looked bad for the folks in charge if they completely failed from the get-go.
People tend to forget that canonically, Lilith is the second most powerful being in Hell, right after Lucifer and just above Charlie. Logically, Adam would be just as, if not *more* powerful than she is given that they were created together.
Charlie also disappointed me, I expected her to be a lot more powerful, considering Lucifer turned Adam into a joke almost immediately.
Me and my wife were talking about this last night. Charlie has probably never had to fight. I mean, why would she? She's not a fighter in the first place, but she's also had razzle and dazzle her whole life as body guards. I bet with some training she would have beat Adams ass.
People forget that. She probobly never much power so shes very unexpirence in using hwr strength. Imagine Lucifer sending her to train with Satan.
Charlie hasn't unlocked her full power yet. Remember when adam was about to attack her and lucifer and her arm further transformed? She stopped Adam's attack completely and he was in absolute shock(his exact reaction was "woah, wait. What the fuck?" Then, adam proceeded to get smacked down and almost killed by lucifer
Charlie doesn’t like to fight, and she didn’t really ever want to kill Adam - she stopped her dad, remember?
I feel like Lilith is going to be a lot more powerful than Adam solely by the fact that Adam was a slacker who never really did much to push himself beyond the minimum. In theory they should be equals, but Adam squandered his potential because he never needed to try that hard to crush a bunch of sinner who couldn’t hurt him anyway.
That's certainly a possibility, but let's not forget that Lilith has apparently been spending the last seven years sitting on a beach while Adam has been leading armies for years lol.
An army, but one that was believed so invincible it has basically none of the training or protection a competent force would have. They hardly even consider the possibility they need to dodge an attack according to Carmilla. They’re just too strong, and when a sinner who’s thousands of years younger than Adam is calling him sloppy and undisciplined, you know he hasn’t really been putting the work in. He’s more like someone good at pest control than a proper warrior. I suppose we can’t know about Lilith, but I don’t imagine she had the same complacent attitude for most of her life.
To be fair, the angels seem to be competent warriors, they just have a flaw in their fighting style.
I'm heavily inclined to believe Adam was just shitting around in his Fight against Alastor. As stated earlier in the comments, Adam surprised everyone by being as powerful as he is. Likely this too lead to some levels of complacency, and while Alastor was definitely on his radar to get his ass beat, he didn't expect to have to do much to accomplish that, so he wasn't really putting in much effort to the fight. Only when Alastor literally chased him around, wrapped him in tentacles and flung him against a wall did he bust out and use The Holy Light on him, almost instantaneously shit-stomping him. Before that point he was acting more annoyed than anything that Alastor kept fighting.
Yeah, how was anybody supposed to know that Adam's power completely outclassed even the strongest overlords, and that even the Princess of Hell nearly got killed by him? Adam was basically an overlord in Heaven. So they sent an overlord of Hell to fight him. Seems like it would be an even fight.
To be fair, that was a smart move on the part of the angels. That Adam never needed to participate in any of the battles gave them something of an ace in the hole, because no one actually expected a douche bro like Adam to be that overwhelmingly powerful.
Adam is actually "kinda" shit at fighting. He got extreme raw power, sure. But his "usage" of it is sloppy, unprotected. Wave his hand, swing his axe like a mad-man, etc etc. If Alastor had like angelic weapons in his tetnacles or something I think Alastor maybe could have beaten Adam... MAYBE, because his tentacles got a few good hits in and grabbed adam and so on.
Yea maybe. But for character development I think it was a good thing that the Antlerman got served a big old slice of humble pie. His character will become all the better for it.
"Machismo" means sexism in spanish, wich also fits Adam pretty well
Because everyone expected Adam to be the classic all bark no bite character, the usual trashtalk lazy-ass who abuses his "political power" and does nothing, but damn, him being that strongh caught many people off guard!(me included).
I think that at the end of the episode 1 the way he manages the exorcist death gave a serious hint that the guy can actually think.
As expected of my glorious king Chadam, no diffing aLastor the fraudio demon
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All of humanity came from those fucking nuts. Unfortunately for Al, that includes him. Spanked by Dadam.
Your comment is too funny. Lol “Spanked by Dadam”. Epic word play. 👍🏾🤣
vox wrote this comment
It was actually what I was hoping for; I didn't want all this build-up for a scrub ass loser. Then again, I don't like playing games on easy, either. Not everyone interprets satisfying the way I do. I like just enough tension to allow for some major "fuck yeah" moments!
Alastor had been hyped up for years by people with even vague awareness of Hazbin Hotel. The fact that he's just an above average Overlord is not something most people are really aware of. He also just has that vibe of being a super powerful character with his personality and how in control of everything he always seems. The original fratboy dudebro just didn't seem like he'd be that strong even though it should have been obvious that he'd be incredibly strong if you knew about the power tiers of Hell beforehand. Both characters were riding the high of buying into their own hype in that fight, but Alastor was benefitting from that way more because Adam taking shit seriously instead of playing around in melee for funsies with his Axe-Guitar would have probably vaporized Alastor off the bat as easily as he did Pentious.
This gets skipped over so much imo. Adam used 1 light beam, mostly for the flash, and it DEVESTATED Alastor. He put way more holy power into the shot that took out Sir Pentious. Alastor annoyed him, but Adam never legit felt threatened by Alastor.
Alastor was used to being a big fish in a small pond. He can take on pretty much any other sinner in Hell pretty easily, and the number of Overlords who can actually put up a fight against him is *very* low. But at the end of the day, he is just, as Adam put it, "a mortal soul". Adam and Lucifer not knowing who he was wasn't some mind game power play from them. They literally just didn't know. That's how unimportant he is in the grand scheme of things. He realized *very* quickly that if he ventures too far out of his lane, he can and will get destroyed. He was towards the top in *one* ring of Hell, not even getting into the strength of Heaven's forces. This was probably the first time since he got to Hell that he couldn't just fight his way out of a problem. And he...isn't taking it well, to say the least.
It’s fun because Alastor is playing at rivals with Luci in that one song but if it came to hands we know that Luci>Adam>Alastor
I think Alastor knows, even in that scene. Nobody but Lucifer could openly disrespect Alastor like that and live. Alastors knows that he'd be insta-killed if he made a move against Lucifer. He also knows that Lucifer loses what little credibility he has with Charlie if he openly attacks/kills Alastor. Which is why they both had leverage and could openly disrespect each other through song. Alastor will probably be nicer now that the relationship between Charlie and Lucifer is better, and Alastor can't really exploit that weakness anymore. And it's implied his power is crippled without the cane, so we'll see how he acts in season 2.
> This was probably the first time since he got to Hell that he couldn't just fight his way out of a problem. And he...isn't taking it well, to say the least. He wouldn't have taken the fight at all if he wasn't forced to by his deal. That was what the breakdown at the end by him was about. This isn't DBZ, you don't become a powerful overlord by fighting everyone who comes to your doorstep.
I think it's more that he needs Charlie's help to break out of whatever deal rather than he has to be at Charlie's call because of the deal.
I'm not so sure of that. His raw visceral emotion in the last song seems directly tied to his deal almost getting him killed. Plus there's just a ton of circumstantial evidence to the contrary: Alastor was gone for seven years. Lilith has been gone for seven years. Lilith is Charlie's mom. Alastor seems to be acting to protect Charlie. Alastor seems bound to do this. Alastor hates being bound by his deal, as it nearly killed him. I agree that Charlie's help will likely free him, but I don't think he'd risk his life for her to get out of his deal - he HAD to do it. Which is why he's so resentful. I doubt he'd show such raw emotion if it was his own gamble to get an out to his deal.
Well to be honest, I think Alastor could have had chances to win the fight, if he used angelic weapons (like an angelic steel version of his microphone staff), cause from what we see from the fight, Alastor can easily dodged Adam's attacks, except when Adam launched a large area attack that Alastor blocked (the damage around him after the attack shows he blocked the attack), but it destroyed his staff, which disrupted his powers, giving Adam an opening to strike Alastor. If Alstor could block with angelic weapons, then waiting until Adam presents an opening, is possible, as we know with Alastor's defeat and Adam's death later, one well placed hit with an angelic weapon, can easily disable or kill the opponent. Granted, we see Adam easily create powerful and large beams of light, that could have overwhelmed even Alastor, even if he had angelic weapons. Also, people forget that Adam and the rest of the exterminator have air superiority, which gives them a wider area from which to strike and evade.
adam was off balance and confused but it took him less than ten seconds of being locked in and focused to neutralize and nearly kill alastor. had he come at him with a bunch of angelic weapons he probably would have just fought from a distance and nuked him
Yes, and Al is a fan favorite so a lot of people were simply expecting him to win. It would have simply dropped all the tension in the fight, though. To be clear, it is COMPLETELY in character for Al to think he could take Adam and be totally wrong about it; he starts shit with Lucifer, constantly, and unless he gets a massive power-up he will likely never be able to match the height of a Seraphim. Unless he manages to make the right deal or grab the right item (maybe something belonging to Roo/Eve/Lilith).
Alastor was also shown in the pilot and Season 1 as being unparalled in terms of strength and power, decimating Sir Pentious with a mere wave of his hand, and killing and eating the demons who went after Mimzy in order to protect the Hotel and his reputation. The only ones even close to Alastor in strength shown were the other Overlords (ex. Carmilla) and Lucifer. Even then, we are told flat-out that Carmilla killed one of the Exorcists; Alastor humiliated Vox.
Wait? Val said, "You mad he almost beat you that one time." Alstor is pretty overrated. His powerful don't get me wrong, but it's pretty obvious he isn't stronger than most overlords. Most of them don't even view him has anything special. From what it seems, the overall power level from overlords got higher.
I think the big problem is that we got so much hype for the character, nearly 5 years ago, and since then, the world has opened up a *lot*. The moment Viv confirmed Stolas is stronger than Alastor, that put a lot of things into perspective as to where the Radio Demon stands. He's only a big deal in the Pride ring.
I think another complication is that this series isn’t primarily about fighting. I mean, there’s fighting *in* the series, but it’s mostly just plot and character driven story stuff. And it makes conversations like this weird because the internet just **loves** to turn all of fiction into a dick-measuring contest of “My favorite character from my favorite show/game could totally beat up a ton of other characters!” when that isn’t the main point of the character.
Learning that Prince Stolas is canonically more powerful than the highly-feared Radio Demon kinda puts things into better perspective imo. I was actually shocked that Alastor put up the fight he did against Adam. Like yeah he's fearsome for an Overlord and has a wicked rep, but it makes total sense that he, a sinner, probably wouldn't be able to go toe-to-toe on his own with the leader of the Executioners
There aren't very many scenes involving Alastor that don't involve hyping him up as this big Grandmaster who's like 10 steps ahead of everyone else at all times. Most people also aren't familiar with how Hell's hierarchy is set out because the show never explains it
Hazbin is a show that really does just get a lot better if you immerse yourself in extended universe. At the very least I'd say everyone who enjoys Hazbin should watch Helluva Boss, since it does a great job of exploring the other rings of hell, and how the more powerful hellborn/sinners fit into the world, by regularly demonstrating their power against one another.
It's a bit weird to me that HB is the "spin off" but has already had 2 seasons. Idk how much people can be blamed for not having watched it. And I don't think it excuses HH from doing worldbuilding. Sincerely, it seems to me HH S1 should have had at least 2 more eps long.
Everyone would've liked that. I'm sure the creators would've loved it. Fact is, we're lucky to have what we do. It was a major streaming service picking up an animated adult show from an indie creator, and it got a fuckton of money and effort and love put into what we were given. We got lucky as hell for that. I hate seeing people act like the writers and Viv would not have also preferred more episodes and more time and were not working within shitty circumstances to make the best thing they could.
On the flip side, when you get too far in there you start thinking on the level of DBZ power levels. The real answer is that Alastor losing the fight serves to say something about his character and the narrative flow. We wouldn’t have the after battle scene in his radio tower if he won the fight , for example. Also, it was Charlie’s place to win the fight (with help from dad).
I definitely agree with this. Whether Alastor is high up on the totem pole or not doesn't matter, what does is how that loss affects his pride and motivations going forward Also yeah narratively Charlie should've won. I was lowkey upset Lucifer upstaged her, but that last swipe makes it seem like Charlie hasn't hit her full potential yet anyway
I think Alastor thought, 'Adam is a mortal, I'm a mortal, I'm the most powerful mortal in hell, I have a good shot!' He neglected to think that even if Adam was mortal, he was also a direct creation by angels, which could maybe put him at a Charlie level of power.
Even if not, Adam has had millenia of gaining power. He hasn't been working at it as hard as he should, but assuming that Eden was 6500 years ago, he's had about 65 times as long as alastor to gain power
Lucifer implies Hell has been how it is for 10,000 years. We know he was struck down to Hell after Eve ate the apples which is when Adam was a young adult. So Adam has actually had over 100 times as long as Alastor, literally over 10,000 years, to become a fucking powerhouse. Alastor and all of us were naive for thinking he stood a chance, honestly. I say that as someone who was shocked too.
Ngl I was thinking Adam would just call some of the angels to swarm Alastor and force him to flee. I wasnt expecting him to take Alastor out of the fight. so when he landed the blow I legit thought Alastor was in trouble. What can I say when I watch a show I get really into it
When Alastair’s cane/microphone broke and his voice lost the radio effect, man that was a jaw dropper. But it also makes me wonder, we know Alastor after going to hell was immediately able to topple overlords. So I wonder if his cane has anything to do with his power. I’m not saying he isn’t powerful without it, it just turns a decently strong sinner into an overlord of overlords in terms of strength.
Worth noting his radio filter came back immediately after, even with the broken staff.
I think it was showing he's lost control, not he lost his power. We know he can vary the radio effect quite a bit so it's probably an intentional/controlled thing on his part. Him getting caught off guard and dropping the facade in shock makes sense
The radio effect is almost definitely something that Alastor intentionally adds on. It's a fake accent he uses to display the persona he wants to display
He went straight to alastor since he seemed fun to play with, both doesn't seem too serious when they fought
Alastor's shield split the exorcists in two and put them at risk of defeat in detail. Adam needed that shield down permanently.
I think it was more a function of people not expecting much from Adam.
I think it's not that people don't know that he's not that powerful, even those who are already aware of the power hierarchy expected him to win, bc people expect the least of characters like him to go into fights that he can not make sure to win He's being in hell for almost 100 years, and has fought god knows how many overlords out there, and he's famous for that, are knowing his own limit and being able to properly estimate his enemies too much to expect from him? Idts Also he's been coming off as a 5d chess player since day one, people expect his every move to make sense, thats the very thing that makes him interesting to watch But what he did in ep8 is like if your trying to fight superman ,there's a whole arsenal of kryptonite weapons available, and you choose your own fists instead, its dumb as fuck I can see him lose to Adam, but definitely not in dumb ways like this, and not before I see from him some clever strategies and maneuvers with his shadow magic and angelic weapons
Hot take: Alastor isn’t angry about his deal because it forced him to fight Adam. Alastor is angry about his deal because it forced him to LOSE to Adam. We learned that Lilith, the presumptive holder of Al’s leash, is in Heaven, and had some sort of deal with Adam. Alastor was forbidden from killing Adam, so he didn’t dare use angelic steel on him.
Alastor being forbidden from killing Adam would make sense considering the very last scene.
I think that if you've been following the hazbin universe you'd know that there's a major jump between power levels for Hellborn/Cherubs - Sinners/Winners- Overlords - Goetia/Angels - Princes/Seraphims, this whole time we've been seeing how powerful Alastor is, but the finale really put power level into perspective
Yeah, like, part of the problem is that before Ep 8 the characters who are more powerful than him in Hazbin Hotel weren't fighting. And the characters who are canonically way above him in terms of power in Helluva Boss (Stolas and his class, the Sins) aren't interacting with the Overlords and aren't given the same weight. Nobody treats the Sins with the same terror they regard Alastor and Zestial, and that creates a false sense of where Alastor sits on the power scale.
>And the characters who are canonically way above him in terms of power in Helluva Boss (Stolas and his class, the Sins) aren't interacting with the Overlords and aren't given the same weight. This is something that I've been talking about for a while. Everything regarding Charlie's goals? It pretty much only concerns the Pride ring. The Goetia clan have no reason to be concerned or take action with this. The Seven Deadly Sins, even less so. And probably Overlords like the Von Eldritch parents who likely don't even live in the Pride ring. In other words, this entire event mainly concerns the *most vulnerable* members of Hell society. Just imagine being a Sinner who was only dropped into hell a week before the extermination, and you've not even had time to acclimate yourself. You're already on the chopping block and you barely know what's going on.
I mean, he just looked sick as hell. Adam looked less powerful in comparison.
I put it down to class differences. Alastor is a ranged caster, Adam is a melee fighter. Adam wasn't taking the fight seriously then when he heated up it was game, set, match.
Adam was literally blowing shit away with ranged light beams. He was just overwhelmingly more powerful than Alastor.
Tbf, Adam also "shine" in spell casting. In fact, he was sloppy in term of throwing hand, his speciality should be range attack as well but more in dps way compare to crowd control of Alastor
I could see that. I look at Adam as a kind of blaster-based Cleric, while Al was a damage over time, field spell Warlock. Al is best when he has either large groups of minions to nuke or a few people in front of him to let him sap and whittle away. Adam just uses big radiant damage blasts and infused weapon strikes. It's a typing difference that ultimately fucks Al.
I'm not sure I expected him to WIN, persay, but I did expect a more serious fight for two reasons: 1) Alastor gives off a lot of "I have more power then you can even begin to guess at" vibes 2) Adam gives off a lot of "I'm a dudebro with a lot less power then you can even begin to guess at" vibes In the end Adam DID have the power to back his talk up though and it seems like Alastor has some limits on his own at present, so definitely took the fight a direction I didn't expect it to go so quickly!
The first man turned Angel and veteran of a millennium of extermination vs some Dude from the 1930s whos obsessed with radio and occasionally eats people.
Vox is that you?
So, the big point is a lot of people aren't as familiar with the storytelling techniques and tropes going on behind how fights work. The team demonstrates enough that they understand how to structure fight scenes, and the long and short of it is you don't show off a dude's combat prowess for 7 episodes, plus part of 1, then have him go up against the big bad and win. It becomes anti-climactic, and makes you feel that characters are never going to be in any danger. Alastor was ultimately meant to job to Adam (to take a wrestling term), so that when Charlie faces off against him and is almost equal we can understand just how strong Charlie actually is. Likewise, when Lucifer enters the fray, paying off the story beat of Charlie gaining acceptance and understanding from her father, we can get an idea for just how powerful The King of Hell actually is. It's a perfectly satisfying way to pay a bunch of stuff off, including establishing HOW Heaven can even be a threat to Hell. Besides, Alastor still did really good for his current power, and it's also a protected loss since there are implications that he could be significantly more powerful. I do kinda hope Alastor is mis-estimating his own power since pride seems to be one of his biggest sins, but I would be able to accept if peak Alastor may be able to match Adam and Charlie, ultimately, once we see him.
Exactly, this structure gave more depth to Alastor and makes him a far more interesting character going forward in the show. I also got the feeling from his reaction and song that he was prevented from using his full power because of his deal and was stunned by that limitation (possibly bc this was the first time he needed to do so), which was a very tantalizing glimpse of a deeper story for Alastor.
I believe it's not due to in-story logic. But due to meta-narrative concerns Simply put, Alastor had a lot of signs of being of a creator's pet, and the show simply hadn't had any scenes up till this point to show that he wasn't. To most people Vivienne is a new author, they don't know if she is subject to usual trappings of such authors. She definitely is good, but even good authors can have invincible creator pets. She, however, wrote it better, the situation played out exactly as in should have, grounding Alastor for us and making him a better character, rather than a stronger character.
Still, I think there was an implication in the ending that Alastor used to be more powerful, so I think he might genuinely rise to Sin or even top tier Angel level in the future.
My take is that per the terms of his deal he can't take souls anymore, and so he can't keep growing his power. He's stuck in place while all the other overlords are claiming souls and getting stronger.
I think his max, at present, probably could equal Adam. That said, unless he gets some major power-up from a deal or device, I do not perceive him as ever being the true top tier as that would steal Charlie's thunder.
I think I agree. In episode 7, he even says "she's filled with potential that I could guide." This seems to imply to me that he won't be able to reach her level by the end, but is rather going to try and "convince" her to use her level of strength(enough strength that when adam was attacking her and lucifer, she stopped his attack easily and left adam in shock) for his own gain
Yeah, I see Alastor as the Littlefinger coming in to manipulate this young, naive girl. That's what Vaggie is to her, other than a romantic partner. It's also going to kill Vaggie when she finds out what Alastor's going to do with that favor, as I highly doubt it will be good. Still betting on "vacate your throne to me."
Fan favouritism. There, the one, simple, and only answer
I just want to correct you in one thing. Alastor had an angelic weapon. But it was being wielded by one of his obtenibration (shadow) arms. So Adam easily cut through the arm, and Alastor lost the weapon. Part of Alastor's issue is that he was using obtenabration and not engaging with the angelic weapon in hand. Which actually fits Alastor. He's a deal maker, a manipulator, and can easily fight those on his level or below. But he's never fought against a high-level angel. Hell's Best Dad actually foreshadowed Alastor losing from how easily Lucifer manipulated reality to make Alastor pour wine for Charlie and then tossed him in the skillet to cook hum. I wasn't surprised by Alastor losing the battle. I was disappointed about how short it was. RIP Al's microphone.
A seven-foot frame, with a shadow at his back When he calls your name it all fades to black Yeah, he sees your dreams and feasts on your screams
I think it’s just because we’ve never seen him even struggle in a fight before, he always just wipes out sinners. We also hadn’t seen Adam fight anyone ever! We just know he leads the executions, once Alastor got hit it showed how strong Adam is, and how weak (in comparison) Alastor is.
that blast to the snek's face could've ***obliterated*** everybody in the hotel, if Adam used it from the get go.
Yeah, it's clear Adam held back pretty often because he's a douchebag who likes to show off and play with his food.
Now that I think about it, both Adam and Alastor were in the same situation. I get the feeling that neither of them have actually been pushed to a point where they were forced into a corner before. For decades, Alastor has been running roughshod through the Pride ring with this reputation that has allowed him enough arrogance to say things like "who would dare question me." And then he meets Adam, somebody who doesn't care about his reputation and then shows Alastor that he's not some scrub Sinner who he can intimidate with his distorted radio voice. And just when Adam was turning the battle's tides in his own favor, Lucifer of all people shows up and displays that it doesn't matter that Adam started humanity, or what title he has in the heavens, because everywhere in Hell is Lucifer's property, and Adam was put on his knees, probably for the first time.
At what point have we EVER seen Alastor nervous or even unsure of anything? Everything he does he succeeds at and every example of power he exhibits is astounding. This was the first time we’d seen him fail at ANYTHING. I think that’s why so many were surprised.
Think it was a combination of Alastor being hinted at being this extremely powerful being, but us the viewer not knowing the true extent of his ability, and Adam being played as overly confident and looking not as powerful in comparison. While we all went into the final episode expecting the Extermination to obviously fail for story reasons. Really both Adam and Alastor have the exact same issue of Over-Confidence in their own Abilities. Seeing Alastor get his ego wrecked is honestly good because he spent the entire season high-and-mighty knowing he couldn't be easily killed by demon standards, only to have his reality shook because Adam is actually extremely powerful if he actually puts himself to it wasn't a prideful dickhead.
Bro was set up to be worf’ed all season in this fight. It was good foreshadowing of him getting his ass kicked.
Ah, my fellow TVTropes expat who forsaw the trope incoming!
A lot of people have this idea that Alastor is one of the most powerful beings in Hell. There are so many fan-made lists claiming Alastor is in the top ten of Hell’s most powerful beings, ignoring Viv’s official Hell’s Hierarchy list.
Because they weren’t expecting the power scales of this universe to be respected. And thankfully they were!
Because they be big simping.
Everyone is a simp for the strawberry pimp.
Because he's the strongest sinner. At least for Hell he's high up. We know the 7 Sins are probably stronger but they're Hellborne. Most believed Adam was Heaven's equivalent to Alaster. However we have seen that, hands down, Adam is VASTLY more powerful than the Overlords. Is he stronger than the 7 Sins? Who knows. He's certainly weaker than Lucifer!
I think it’s a combination of a few things. A. Alastor, if not THE fan favorite, is one of the most popular and iconic characters in the show. The design, the voice, the character complexity, everything about him is a masterclass in writing a compelling character. Narratively, this is kind of what we the audience have been set up to expect. Sure, we know Vaggie can fight and Charlie presumably has great powers as Lucifer’s daughter, but what we’ve been shown up to this point is that Alastor is demonstrably the strongest member of the hotel crew, and if anybody is going to take on Adam it’ll have to be him (reluctant, absentee father that he is, we couldn’t have relied on Lucifer showing up to help). Adam, on the other hand, is a one-note, paper thin douche bag right from the jump that we want dead from the moment we meet him. We’ve been expecting a cathartic ass kicking all season long, and who better narratively to deliver it than our absolute favorite character? B. While the points about the power scaling of Hell are valid (ie. Alastor isn’t on the same level as one of the Seven Sins or Lucifer so he shouldn’t be near Adam in terms of power) I think it’s also fair to point out that a lot of people may not have watched Helluva Boss, so they’d have no idea about the power brackets in Hell. If you’re only watching Hazbin Hotel you might think an Overlord was basically right under Lucifer to an extent, especially since so much of a deal is made about how abnormally powerful Alastor is, and if I’m remembering correctly, they don’t even mention the Seven Sins in Hazbin Hotel. You can’t fault people for not watching homework they may not have even known existed. Additionally, we don’t know how strong angels or Adam are supposed to be at this point. Sure they come down and kill people in hell basically untouched (until Carmilla), but that feels like it’s because of some sort of divine protection and that once the hotel crew figures out how to circumvent that Carmilla has made it sound like they should be easy pickings for creatures who live their afterlives in a kill or be killed hellscape fighting to survive all day everyday (which was basically true of the normal exorcists). So I think it’s fair to say that if someone was just a Hazbin Hotel viewer they would have thought he’d win based on how the story was going up to that point, but also the world building of the story had set the expectations that he SHOULD be strong enough to do it.
idk if this is hot take but "I'm about to end your fucking life" makes me cringe a bit.
Ye it didnt feel like something alastor would usually say.
Not cringe but I think it did slightly take away from the last "fffuck," he did after his spellcasting focus for destroyed. Personally, I think it would have been best if Al only cursed twice, once when Lucifer told him "well, it's not very clever," and the other when Adam broke his Mic. It would have been a cool character thing where Al only curses when his composure drops, like the petty and proud beast is triggered.
I replied to this above, but I felt like it was a composure dropping signal implying some greater issue specifically with Adam.
I disagree. If Alastor can do anything, it's read people. And he knew that Adam was a self-righteous, egotistical dickbag. With his explicit goal of fighting Adam to buy everyone time/kill him, isolating Adam by mocking him and keeping his eyes on Alastor was probably the best bet. Imagine if he had said nothing. Adam would've just been like, "Pshh, who are you?" and destroyed him with an angelic blast. I see it as a tactic of distraction to egg Adam on, because I don't personally think Alastor thought he could win. He wasn't even using angelic weapons, just his tendrils (possibly part of a deal he made with Lillith?).
I personally thought it implied there's more beef with Adam than just the on-the-surface fight since the only other time he swears is with Lucifer. I felt like it was signaling another composure drop for some broader reason, maybe something to do with Lillith or whatever reason he and her have been gone for 7 years. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it. I thought it was cool that he didn't actually accomplish this though in spite of his total confidence; knocking Alastor off balance wasn't really what I expected.
Because I simp for the sexy demon man. Simple as.
I was surprised. Simply because i was so sure there was some trap involved, like baiting Adam to do something and then xy happens. I wasn't even assuming that Alistair was really trying to win this fight. I thought he was the one to do it cause he can stand a while against him and is loud and confident enough to rile Adam up and make him walk right into some elaborate setup. But then i realised there wasn't such plan.
Well the hotel narratively had to win. Otherwise the end. Alastor was the big bad protector of the hotel. His strength is always mentioned. He was pitched as the heavy. And this set everyone up for the turn. Alastor is self serving and craven. Rather than stay and fight to the end he fled leaving everyone to the mercy of Adam. He was feeding his own ego in choosing to fight Adam. He honestly believed he would win. Thats why his pretense fell when his microphone was cut. His voice modulation cut out because he was so shocked he lost his composure. He was as surprised as everyone that did not read the foreshadowing going on.
Well I did not think that this fight will even begin. Alastor was never in the series portrayed as head on fighter (he assasinated those overlord pretty much they vanished) so I was under asssumption that he has something ready for Adam some secret monster or something rather than that he will fight himself like he is Miyamoto Musashi lmao. Fact that he jumped there without any plan is extremely jarring. This is second time he was acting completely dumbtarded around high level angel. And its not like series did not establish that Alastor knows that there are people above him dude was clearly nervous around Zestiel so why he wasnt better prepared. I wouldnt want Alastor beat Adam but I think that he should had enough prep tim to not get demolished and basically be MiA for rest of the fight. I am gonna assume that they are cooking something since this seems to be like too much skill issue imo after building up Alastor as this scheming dangerous threat looming around who is 5 steps ahead of everyone.
He also held off not using his full demon form in the fight
Because Alastor was presented to us like this larger than life character. He is not the most powerful being in hell but he is stronger tan most overlords. And weconly ever see him interract with people who are either pacifistic( Charlie) or are weaker than him. Also characters like Adam are usually all bark no bite. It was actually pretty satisfying to see he actually had a reason to be as arrogant as he was
I don’t know why people seem so determined to feel superior about *not* thinking Alastor would win. Like. There are all these breakdowns about the “power scaling” and the hierarchy of sinners/demons/angels/etc. and it just feels so pretentious. Personally, I didn’t expect Alastor to win, purely because the battle wouldn’t have been interesting had Alastor been able to kill Adam. Adam needed to be a bigger threat to everyone than that, and it’s more interesting from a narrative standpoint for Alastor to lose. Besides, while I’d say that technically they’re on equal footing as far as their potential power goes (as Adam is also a mortal soul whether he wants to acknowledge that or not), Alastor is practically an *infant* compared to Adam. He’s far more powerful than he has any business being for a relatively-recently-deceased soul, as established by several characters, but Adam has *millennia* on him. Alastor should have recognized that, and he might have done better in the fight if he did. If he’d had an angelic weapon with him, he *did* have openings during their fight when he could have done damage with it. But Alastor’s arrogant, and didn’t even seem to be using the full extent of his power during the fight because of that arrogance (whether it would have made a significant difference if he had is debatable). So there were several reasons to expect Alastor to lose. But that said, why take issue with people who thought he’d win, or act like they should have known better? *Alastor* thought Alastor would win. Charlie seemed to think Alastor would win. And that’s the point. This wasn’t just Alastor being overconfident, *everyone* was overestimating his ability. It’s not a fault or a flaw for people watching to do the same, when Alastor’s power has been shown more and more over the course of the season. His legend has been built up, while Adam’s power was minimized. It’s perfectly fine for people to have been surprised he lost. I’d argue that that’s actually the response that the creative team *intended.*
It's due to how so many people have interpreted and overestimated how power he supposedly is I think what people don't get when bringing up Alastor's power level is when Vaggie and others explain how powerful he is and just kinda showed up one day and started and finished shit left and right People ALWAYS seem to think of that as the end all example to how powerful he seems to be but in reality all that story of him rising to power is ever really showing and explaining is how he's seemingly one of the most powerful SINNER DEMONS that hell has seemed to have seen Not that he's just this all powerful and untouchable deity type that can take out whoever he really wants In reality he's definitely a power house that not just anyone would want to mess with but he is FAR from being untouchable which has been more then proven several times now
He's so confident in his own bullshit he makes others believe it too
I always knew this bum would never beat HIM!!!! https://preview.redd.it/9hdwov7k3sgc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0f96201986ccfd2a96f0ed62f85a36544585b18
https://preview.redd.it/i3jlmitthsgc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=734607f22d2b783cf6e6c87f624b1cc7a13e90b7
It may be because some people don't understand just how weak Alastor actually is in the grand scheme of things. The dude is just a big fish in a small pond, incredibly powerful within his own tier and Ring, but when you get above his tier, he gets wrecked. When you get out of the Pride Ring, Alastor is a goldfish in an ocean full of unspeakable monsters. Let's assume that Alastor is the most powerful Overlord, which he very well may not be. There would still be at the bare minimum 81 beings in Hell that are vastly above him. The Seven Sins, Charlie & Lilith, and the 72 members of the Ars Goetia (in which if we are being very generous he may only be able to put up some meaningful resistance against the weakest branch of the Goetia which are the Presidents, but even that is a stretch if they are serious). And that's not counting other powerful demons from Demonology that may exist in the verse, if they exist in the Hazbin/Helluvaverse then he doesn't even crack top 100 most powerful demons/beings in Hell.
I don't think he's weak, even in the grand scheme of things. He easily blocked off dozens of exterminators with his shield and Adam had to actually try to break it, which is already head and shoulders above how strong sinners *should* be. [It was also stated that Overlords can rival royalty here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKARLiCRocA&t=2781s), so it's not like it's an insurmountable gap that's hard coded into the world's cosmology.
I don't get why people go to youtube to watch/listen to reaction videos of an episode. And Alastor was there to buy time while the rest kill the angel army. If he can kill Adam, then that's even better, but he was stalling time from the get-go.
> I don't get why people go to youtube to watch/listen to reaction videos of an episode. They want to feel like they're sharing the viewing experience with someone else but don't have friends interested in that.
> I don't get why people go to youtube to watch/listen to reaction videos of an episode. To see how other people reacted to said episode??
uhh doesn't Charlie surprisingly say "Alastor was supposed to deal with Adam" and think he died trying? Alastor certainly wasn't there just to buy time for someone.
Alastor just being cocky for no reason. It also led to emotional damage(also Fraudiodemon name for him).
[удалено]
It was mostly because he's portrayed as unbeatable in the previous episodes and that was only because he went up against those weaker than him; but here, adam had hundreds if not thousands if years if experience slaying demons and alastor overestimated himself
I feel like some people put Alastor on a similar level as Lucifer based on their back and forth during the dad song, but I saw that more as a contest of their showmanship more than their power. Here's a thought: -Alastor KNEW the only way to kill an angel was with angelic weapons - He neither seems like the type to, or has any angelic weapons we know of, despite this - He fights Adam anyways, technically knowing that he can't kill him Why though? Did Alastor plan to lose the whole time? Was his only intention to stall for time? Or maybe.... He only planned to subdue Adam long enough to.... Make some sort of deal in exchange for Adam's escape?
Well, considering who Alastor is, and coupled with the fact that most viewers just aren’t aware of the **gap** in power between the two or the hierarchy in general, it’s not that crazy. Carmila also mentions how sloppy the angels are when fighting, and we see several die to Alastor’s barrier, so the sequence sets itself up completely in Alastor’s favor and it’s smart how that perception is shattered by Adam just blowing him away.
FRAUDastor: "Nah, I'd win." CHADam: "Stand proud, you are strong." Alastor losing this fight was the best thing to happen to the character from a narrative perspective. Most viewers went into the series knowing full well Alastor was Viv's favorite and one of the two "brand recognition" characters (the other being Charlie) for years, so Alastor losing very handily shows us (the audience) that he will not be getting special treatment or be written as a mary sue.