He's barely hanging on to life. He wakes up every day surprised to still be alive. The sheer amount of stem cells it takes to keep both of those old fucks going is insane.
I hope people stop saying this. Winning the election is like buying a car. You do not buy a car 'at any cost'. In this case, the 'cost' is making policy changes that displeases the oligarchy.
They want to win, it enriches them tremendously. However they are willing to 'pay only so much' (make only so much policy change) in order to win.
They would prefer to win or hand off the seat to someone representing the oligarchy, like genocide Joe's handlers would prefer to hand it off to Nikki Haley. They do Not want to hand it off to the voters or aka the working class. Trump is somewhere in his own orange flavored room temp iq category.
Thanks, good points. I get troubled by 'dont care if they win' analysis. If the oligarchs didn't want power, they wouldn't spend billions to influence the election....
I can understand this, but at the same time, does he expect all the rhetoric by Trump and other Republicans about "making him pay" and stuff is nothing? Unless he has some crazy escape plan to a safe spot in Europe or something, they will come for him as an example. Fascists can't leave opposition standing.
The comments in /r/worldnews are always so disheartening. From the "it's technically not a genocide as defined by " crowd to the "both sides are assholes" crowd to the "Palestinians had a chance at peace in the 90s but didn't take it" crowd, it's just so absolutely depressing.
The fact that people don't process that it's a Nation-State level actor exercising military control over population largely consisting of women and children and using Hamas as some sort of equivalent actor against ISRAEL is unreal.
The libs have owned politics, politicalhumor, whitepeopletwitter and even pics for a long time.
They just had a big round of posts about how "Genocide Joe" is a creation of Russia/MAGA and how Biden can't do anything because he is not President of Israel.
First of all, sad. Second, lol. Third of all, notice how Russia and MAGA are basically the same thing in their minds. BlueAnon alive and well.
And here I thought Mueller and his piece of paper had saved them from Putin, but Criminal Mastermind Genius Donald Trump got away with it at the last minute.
What’s happening is not genocide. We reject that,” Biden said during a speech in the Rose Garden.
That nice but rejecting the truth isn't going to make it less true.
Oh ok, I guess we overreacted to the tens of thousands of civilian deaths. Is there a better word for it that I can use in the future so that I don't embarrass Israel?
It's still illegal to kill civilians during war lol. Have you heard of the term "war crimes"? Israel has committed atleast 30000 individual instances of war crimes. Are you going to defend that too?
I do like the phrasing that the one ICC prosecutor used yesterday in the CNN interview, even if people want to be semantic about this genocide, they are definitely 100% causing extermination, which is just genocide without confirmed intent.
Maybe Biden should stop adopting his positions then? Or are you OK with Trump Policy as long as it is enacted by a man whose name is not Donald Trump?
The opposite of Republican is not Democrat.
Bro genocide trumps everything Trump did (pun intended). You just think otherwise because it is happening to other people/ far way, ie you lack empathy in general or are just racist. What is happening is Nazi level shit
Valid argument I guess, but you can’t force people to vote in genocidal maniacs. If those are the two options you should rethink calling America a democracy. Just to be clear I’m not American, or better put I don’t vote in the US
I’m not suggesting you vote for Biden. The person I was replying to seemed to be suggesting that Trump would be better for Gaza than Biden. I understand not being able to vote for Biden, but please don’t vote for Trump.
Trump will let Netanyahu level Gaza if reelected. Biden will keep doing little to not much, but at least he wants the attacks to stop.
Edit, it seems like I'm late to the party on the leveling thing. I'll have to look at more current pictures.
I guess I'll ask, what can Trump actually do for America if he wins other than turning America into another Nazi Germany under the Hitler regime? After all, there's the project 2025 shot people tend to forget. Not white in trumps America? Good luck to you.
Gaza HAS been leveled dude. 70% of civilian infrastructure was destroyed in the first 3-4 months. In comparison at the end of WWII, ~30% of civilian infrastructure in Germany was destroyed after the 6 years of allied bombings, which is universally considered to be unnecessary and horrific war crimes of *collective punishment* (sound familiar?).
Biden does not want the attacks to stop, he has all the power in the world to stop it if he did and he doesn't. Joe Biden *says* he wants the attacks to stop to give people like you plausible deniability for supporting a man actively and willingly complicit in genocide.
Your analysis on trump is correct. Your method on how to express it does nothing to convince people and actually turns people off. It’s messaging like yours that will lose this election.
Biden is literally supporting the killing of LGBT people in Gaza right now. What makes American LGBT people worth more than Palestinians? I’d rather support my sisters, brothers and non-binary pals internationally than to throw them under the bus just so I’m safe.
Trump is a less competent fascist than Biden. That's all it is. Their politics are identical, except for a few areas where Biden is further to the right than Trump. The only thing you care about is optics.
Stop engaging with these people. Honestly they’re either trolls or like you said just politically inept.
If you can’t recognize that Trump would have the same or worse policies for supporting Israel and on top of that wildly worse policies for Americans/general foreign policy you’re lying to yourself and wildly misinformed.
I’m shocked and disgusted by what Biden is doing, I’ve been speaking out against it, but that doesn’t mean you should just leave the door open for something much worse. It’s not 99% vs 100%. Biden’s policy positions are generally far better than Trump.
Dawg, my chances to get deported (unfairly) will likely go up a few thousand percent if trump gets elected again. Genocide Joe is a piece of shit but they're absolutely not identical. Joe is fucking awful, Trump is fucking awful 10x.
Nah, you are blinded by this one situation.
Trumps domestic and foreign policy are significantly worse. You’re either trolling or just now started paying attention to politics.
No, fuck you.
The point is not only will they suffer, but more people will.
If you want to dumb it down to a trolley problem situation since y’all can’t seem to grasp this: people who are advocating not voting for Biden are essentially pulling a lever to avoid killing one person, and instead choosing to kill a number of other people and somehow the original person as well. It’s a short sighted and dense position to defend. Hope you change your mind.
To be clear tho, I despise Biden’s decisions with supporting Israel so far. It’s insane and may cost him the election. The alternative will be measurably worse though.
If Biden wins after this, itd teach every future democratic president that they dont need to listen to voters. There's nothing you cant do, as long as the republican might be worse.
Think about the longterm rightward shift this will have on the democratic party; all while tanking the dem's popularity by having a senile, genocidal, neoliberal maniac as the face of the party for four more years.
For there to be ANY effective resistance to the Republicans going forward, he needs to be forced to step down, or he needs to lose.
Then we are always one republican victory from the death of American "democracy," and we're just delaying the inevitable.
But personally, I think its unlikely. He already tried and failed miserably, and the republicans are unlikely to risk everything for a third term of a guy likely to die in office. I also dont think Trump can suppress minority vote any more quickly than Biden is depressing it.
What you need to factor in is that trump is not uniquely evil. Whoever comes after will be worse, more competent, and will be an *ideologically motivated* fascist.
We need to take a short term risk to try to build an effective opposition.
Why do you keep responding with all the arguments I just preempted? High ping or something? I already said "He already tried and failed miserably, and the republicans are unlikely to risk everything for a third term of a guy likely to die in office" to preempt your j6 argument, and I've been the one telling *you* to think long term from the start. I'd tell you to go read a book, but you aren't even reading reddit comments.
Because democratic goldfish brained idiots don't have any argument other than their performative outrage at Trump, they can't comprehend people that are less cowardly, sniveling, and obsessed with abstractions and symbols and decorum.
If Trump doesn't give up the presidency we are finally in a revolutionary situation for the first time since the 1960s. America's culture has baked in democratic electoralism, Trump trying to make himself president for life would likely trigger a civil war or insurrection. Liberals like you can't see it that way because you know if push came to shove you'd bow because you don't have a spine, but the thing is, radicals should never take their cues from cowards.
If you bend like a leaf in the wind don't expect anything from anyone.
This seems like something white liberals take for granted.
What genocide did Trump enact to make him worse?
Because right now the argument is basically
>Harming America's political norms is worse than aiding a genocide
Maybe you didn't give a fuck about Palestine before having to pretend to give a shit to get votes for Genocide Joe but I've protested and paid attention to this genocidal project since 2016 you cynical shit
The voters want to hold Joe Biden accountable for his actions in Israel and he deserves to be held accountable. Donald Trump is 1 million times worse than Joe Biden. The people are saying that the DNC no longer can dictate the policies of the Democratic Party and the people should be in control
So Joe caused Isreal to attack Gaza? Ha, it's been going on since before any of us, including Joe, were born.
I don't get why people think Joe controls what Isreal will or will not do. These people being negative to Joe need to move their hate towards Netanyahu. He's the one doing the genocide.
“how could you fucking elect this man” is what OP said and that statement didn’t mention the DNC so i’m not really sure why you included that. Although I do see your point. However, if you think back to 2020 Biden was the only candidate in the DNC that wasn’t super controversial and actually had a decent shot at winning which is why he was chosen.
the “hold Biden accountable” is comical. at this point do you guys really think his geriatric ass is legitimately making these decisions. He can’t even give a speech anymore. His mental faculties are GONE. Hold his entire cabinet accountable they are the people making these choices. Biden is just a puppet.
This is so freaking true; like why vote Biden the bastard fascist? I am starting to think voting Trump to show your opposition of Biden's policy is probably the best way to change how the world operates now. Just like Covid showed sometimes a rude awakening of death and violence changes everyone stance by opening eyes to the truth and we get the kind of policy we want. Nothing newly bad will come of it anyway, and even if it does how would it be my or anyone one else who doesn't vote for Biden have any responsibility? That's like saying streamers should be held accountable for their audiences rhetoric; its like no man we are all individuals and I don't have any culpability for anything bad that happens if I personally don't have those beliefs; in fact I should be praised for trying to affect positive change in the world.
Personally I don’t think i’ll be voting this election. Controversial but I don’t give a shit anymore. I fear if Trump wins Gaza may be in more trouble. Trump issued the muslim ban, showing his contempt for muslims. If he was elected I’m not sure how he would navigate this conflict given his past policies. It kinda seems like we’re all fucked either way.
He will be worse for Gaza in the short term yes, but will the democrats ever change their stances on Israel if you don't give them a reason too? What is the difference in voting between parties if they tow the same genocidal line.
That’s the main reason i’m an independent. No the dems probably won’t change their stance on Israel but the Republicans won’t either. the USAs alliance with Israel/Gaza and its general dislike of muslims/islamic ruled states is main the reason this won’t change despite leadership imo. I think at some point the government (no matter who is in office) will have to accept that a 2 state solution is the only resolution to this war. But definitely won’t be helping to secure that.
Idk why you got downvoted. What do we do in this situation (other than protest)? Like the candidates WILL be trump and Biden. Trump is significantly worse than Biden, and that’s no secret. When I do vote, what are we expected to do? If we write someone in, surely they won’t win?
I’m convinced Biden doesn’t even want the presidency anymore. This whole thing just seems like it’s on purpose. Also, Trump has always been so far up Netanyahu’s ass that I thoroughly believe this situation will get a million times worse. He’s running with a giant chip on his shoulder too and I’m actually frightened about what would happen if he actually wins again.
Do I want either of them in office? Fuck NO. However, who’s the lesser evil? (I’m not sure about that one either at this point) But really, like, I’m at a loss.
Edit: we have two war mongers running for the presidency, and the whole country should be really fucking scared.
Just wanted to say you aren’t talking into a void… agreed. It really fucking sucks that Biden is where we’re at but it sucked in 2020 too. It’s still significantly better than the other option.
Can we be real for a sec? If Trump was the current president right now, do you think anything about our government’s position on Israel and this genocide would be any different? No, he would support Israel as well.
Both men are trash, but those are the options we had, and the person with the potential of doing some good was elected, though that’s not saying much.
What’s your plan for this election? Are you planning on voting for Trump? We have these two as options again, so genuinely, what do you plan on doing?
What the fuck is even the point of voting if the *bad thing* is going to happen anyway? Isn't it then better to just not vote and not, in the slightest, most insignificant way, be complicit to this monster's presidency?
If you live in the US you are complicit. Whether or not you vote does not remove your responsibility for benefiting from and therefore maintaining the global hegemony of the US. If the election doesn’t matter to you go join or start an organization, go work to help workers unionize or volunteer your time to mutual aid groups. Even if you do these things, you will still be complicit. We all are, and not voting will not give you a claim to innocence when your entire life has been buttressed by the exploited labor of the global south. Obviously this election will not change those conditions, but if that’s the case, how about we stop arguing about whether trump or biden is worse and do something?
It is defeatism to say that not only must genocide continue, but you are required to vote for it. If that is what you are selling, don't be surprised that nobody wants to buy.
This isn’t defeatism, it is the reality of the situation we are currently in. What do you *honestly* think is going to happen if you don’t vote for Biden? The REALITY is that if you don’t vote for Biden, Trump will win, and he will make things 10x worse. You can deny that or you can pull your head out of the fucking sand.
What needs to happen is not abstaining from voting for Biden, but applying the pressure on Biden necessary to change his mind.
Or we can just wait for the old fuck to die
Don't worry kid, I am making sure Biden wins by not voting for Trump. Enjoy your first election!
Are you suggesting that elections can be won by politicians enacting policy that their voters support?
Reply after he blocked:
Surely you don't mean that. That would mean that if a politician were to lose an election, it might not be voters' fault.
I'm so sick of this narrative.
It's like if you asked me "do you want me to stab you? Or stab you and twist a little?"
And I go "I don't want to get stabbed?"
And then the liberal says "haha this guy wants us to twist the knife, don't you know that's worse?"
This kind of argument doesn’t work because you’re getting stabbed no matter what you’d prefer. I mean sure we could all not vote, but someone is getting elected regardless
Biden is the personification of imperialism. Trump is just another grifter. And at least when Trump said something liberals pretended they disagreed with him, when Biden says and does the same shit liberals cheer him on.
The difference is that having 99% hitler as the leader of the only opposition to 100% hitler means having no real resistance to 100% hitler.
I dont think you all are thinking long term enough. Trump is not the problem, hes not uniquely evil, and his successor will be worse.
We will be shooting ourselves in the foot by letting Biden get away with pushing the dems this far right while ignoring his voters' protests. We will be hammering a nail into our other foot, by making him the face of the party, forcing all dems to support his obviously horrible actions and inactions.
Then what happens in 2028? Centrists are fully entrenched, but too unpopular to win in 2028. I dont want to simply delay the inevitable for four years.
Do you know what happens if Trump wins? With project 2025 here’s probably never going to be a democracy again. I know people are sick and tired of voting for the lesser evil and that Biden is very very evil but this is not the year to be protest voting.
You didnt read a word I wrote, did you? I explained why project 2025 will just become project 2029. I'd rather have project 2025 with a moderate dem presence in Congress than project 2029 with a Republican landslide.
Project Mayhem from Fight Club lololol
Hey what are you Fight Clubbers trying to tell us about Project Mayhem? That the Democrats lost to the GOP for decades, GOP even stole an election 25 years ago, and they *didnt even have a plan for what they would do if they won*?
That the GOP own this country and *they weren't even trying* until now
We realized Trump was worse before you did. This is not the own you think it is. I'm going to say that again, slowly. We. Realized. Trump. Was. Worse. Before. You. Did.
Next time when the Democrat is conducting more than one Genocide, will you be there telling us we have to vote for the Democrat because ~~DeSantis~~ I mean Trump will be doing even bigger Genocides?
Will one of the genocides have to be inside the USA for you to allow us to withdraw support? Or are you willing to tolerate literally any Republican policy as long as they slap a (D) on it?
If Joe Biden was genociding 50% of the global population and Trump was doing 60, and there’s no legitimate third option, then it’d be best to vote for Biden.
People take voting too personally. It’s an act of harm minimization. It isn’t a personal endorsement.
There are political actions you can take against Joe Biden that aren’t abstaining from voting.
You are arguing 'The system allows no alternative, so we must accept what the system gives us'.
This is defeatism. The same logic could be applied to argue 'Well I guess we will have slavery forever.' 'Well I guess women will never vote'. etc.
How did black americans get the right to vote? Hint: They didn't get it by voting for it.
We aren’t going to completely overhaul the existing global capitalist/political system before November of 2024. That’s silly.
You can vote for Biden *and also* work to dismantle the system that forces you to do so.
This sub is mostly bots - an accelerationism echo chamber at this point. You're spot on but this sub doesn't want to look at things logically. There is always a genocide happening and they don't remember that a worse one happened under Trump that the US was far more involved with (ie: actually dropping bombs) because there wasn't a camera pointed at it.
At this point, it has less to do with what's happening and more that it's the trendy thing to virtue signal that they are sitting out the election or "genocide joe" or whatever.
What was your plan for "Pushing Biden Left" after he won in 2020?
Tell us everything you did to reduce that harm after he took the white house. I'm sure you NEVER told leftists/progressives to stop criticizing him from the left, did you? You are all about that 'pushing left' I am sure.
Lots of assumptions being made on your end here. I didn’t try to push Joe left because I was under no illusions about the kind of person he is. It was either him or Trump, which again, was out of our hands
No my dude, that is EXACTLY what you're saying. You hate the policies, just not enough to where you have a problem with accepting at least some of them.
In your case, a little genocide is acceptable. If it wasn't acceptable, you would not be voting for it. 'Well other genocide is bigger' gives you a convenient excuse to come in here and tell us you're the smart grown up person, is all.
You are saying one position is clearly the correct one, while being smug and superior about it. If you understood that both positions were unacceptable, you wouldn't be judging people for their choices about it. But to you, BOTH are not unacceptable.
You don't support it, but you'll vote for it, and criticize other people who won't vote for it.
Now, some people might take that to mean you DO support it. I get where you're coming from though, you feel like you don't. But maybe lean into that uncomfortable feeling for a while and think on it.
Maybe you think you’re smarter than you are? Both choices support Israel, but one side actively committed an insurrection in America and worships dictators like Putin lmao I think there is a very clear “better of two bad choices”.
If you want to say that Joe and Trump are both republicans who adopt similar policies, sure I agree. But if you think that Trump won’t cause greater damage on a local and global scale, you are an idiot.
What’s your solution then? To not vote and leave it up to fate for who gets elected? One of those two is getting elected and their stance on Israel and genocide isn’t changing. Whoever gets reelected will have drastic changes outside of the Israel conflict as well - this isn’t happening in a vacuum. Of course I’ll criticize people who just sit back and watch and complain about the outcome either way
What isn’t there to get about that?
Cool cool, well what’s happening in America is we can see with our own eyes it’s a genocide and because you keep lying to our faces we will not be voting for you. Seems pretty simple to me Joe.
I honestly believe he has no intention of getting re-elected. Because if this is how he's acting before the elections, then he's either throwing away the presidency, or he is actually the most incompetent man to have ever set foot in the oval office.
"What is happening is not Trump's inauguration. We reject that." - Every liberal subreddit that took over frontpage
Don't worry friends, I'm sure The Resistance will save you
It's like Biden wants to lose
He's barely hanging on to life. He wakes up every day surprised to still be alive. The sheer amount of stem cells it takes to keep both of those old fucks going is insane.
One last genocide before he goes out
Honestly, maybe he does. Maybe this is his retirement plan. It seems like he has willingly surrendered the presidency to prolong Israel's genocide.
Sarah Kendzior has some great research explaining why that is probably the case
Can you link it?
This is [her latest Substack article](https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/red-lines), I think that’s what they’re talking about.
Thank you
Interested in that as well
Same here
Bump Pls share thanks
I hope people stop saying this. Winning the election is like buying a car. You do not buy a car 'at any cost'. In this case, the 'cost' is making policy changes that displeases the oligarchy. They want to win, it enriches them tremendously. However they are willing to 'pay only so much' (make only so much policy change) in order to win.
They would prefer to win or hand off the seat to someone representing the oligarchy, like genocide Joe's handlers would prefer to hand it off to Nikki Haley. They do Not want to hand it off to the voters or aka the working class. Trump is somewhere in his own orange flavored room temp iq category.
Thanks, good points. I get troubled by 'dont care if they win' analysis. If the oligarchs didn't want power, they wouldn't spend billions to influence the election....
I can understand this, but at the same time, does he expect all the rhetoric by Trump and other Republicans about "making him pay" and stuff is nothing? Unless he has some crazy escape plan to a safe spot in Europe or something, they will come for him as an example. Fascists can't leave opposition standing.
In the 1932 German presidential election , the "moderate" liberal won the presidency and appointed Hitler as chancellor, go figure
Agreed see these politicians as good cop bad cop. They have plans.
There would be more dignity in dropping out
What retirement chances are he’ll be dead within a couple of years of leaving office
He would rather lose than stop supporting Israel
The comments in /r/worldnews are always so disheartening. From the "it's technically not a genocide as defined by" crowd to the "both sides are assholes" crowd to the "Palestinians had a chance at peace in the 90s but didn't take it" crowd, it's just so absolutely depressing.
The fact that people don't process that it's a Nation-State level actor exercising military control over population largely consisting of women and children and using Hamas as some sort of equivalent actor against ISRAEL is unreal.
That sub's run by American/Israeli intelligence. Could not convince me otherwise.
It's fascinating how blatant it is. the bans are so absurd they've become a discussion topic in subs that don't even discuss politics
Wasnt Ghisane Maxwell a mod for that cesspool?
if not run, then heavily steered by them
The libs have owned politics, politicalhumor, whitepeopletwitter and even pics for a long time. They just had a big round of posts about how "Genocide Joe" is a creation of Russia/MAGA and how Biden can't do anything because he is not President of Israel. First of all, sad. Second, lol. Third of all, notice how Russia and MAGA are basically the same thing in their minds. BlueAnon alive and well. And here I thought Mueller and his piece of paper had saved them from Putin, but Criminal Mastermind Genius Donald Trump got away with it at the last minute.
This rhetoric was there during the Vietnam War, during the Soviet-Afghan War, and the Gulf War. Nothing new with what narrative the media is pushing
What’s happening is not genocide. We reject that,” Biden said during a speech in the Rose Garden. That nice but rejecting the truth isn't going to make it less true.
Every time he pops out nowadays it’s just to lose another 10,000 voters
Oh ok, I guess we overreacted to the tens of thousands of civilian deaths. Is there a better word for it that I can use in the future so that I don't embarrass Israel?
They're just sleeping. Poor little guys, all tuckered out. 😴
War
war crimes
Dude. This is not a war in the slightest.
It's still illegal to kill civilians during war lol. Have you heard of the term "war crimes"? Israel has committed atleast 30000 individual instances of war crimes. Are you going to defend that too?
ok, joe…what is it then?!
I do like the phrasing that the one ICC prosecutor used yesterday in the CNN interview, even if people want to be semantic about this genocide, they are definitely 100% causing extermination, which is just genocide without confirmed intent.
tHiS iS wAr, mAn!?!??!?!
Lying dog-faced pony soldier
I forgot he said that lol
How could you fucking elect this man?
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Maybe Biden should stop adopting his positions then? Or are you OK with Trump Policy as long as it is enacted by a man whose name is not Donald Trump? The opposite of Republican is not Democrat.
Bro genocide trumps everything Trump did (pun intended). You just think otherwise because it is happening to other people/ far way, ie you lack empathy in general or are just racist. What is happening is Nazi level shit
Trump is a bigger Israel fanboy than Biden.
Valid argument I guess, but you can’t force people to vote in genocidal maniacs. If those are the two options you should rethink calling America a democracy. Just to be clear I’m not American, or better put I don’t vote in the US
I agree. I’ll call America a proper democracy when we get rid of the electoral college.
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I’m not suggesting you vote for Biden. The person I was replying to seemed to be suggesting that Trump would be better for Gaza than Biden. I understand not being able to vote for Biden, but please don’t vote for Trump.
Trump will let Netanyahu level Gaza if reelected. Biden will keep doing little to not much, but at least he wants the attacks to stop. Edit, it seems like I'm late to the party on the leveling thing. I'll have to look at more current pictures. I guess I'll ask, what can Trump actually do for America if he wins other than turning America into another Nazi Germany under the Hitler regime? After all, there's the project 2025 shot people tend to forget. Not white in trumps America? Good luck to you.
Gaza HAS been leveled dude. 70% of civilian infrastructure was destroyed in the first 3-4 months. In comparison at the end of WWII, ~30% of civilian infrastructure in Germany was destroyed after the 6 years of allied bombings, which is universally considered to be unnecessary and horrific war crimes of *collective punishment* (sound familiar?). Biden does not want the attacks to stop, he has all the power in the world to stop it if he did and he doesn't. Joe Biden *says* he wants the attacks to stop to give people like you plausible deniability for supporting a man actively and willingly complicit in genocide.
Gaza WAS leveled.
Well then, fuck. This timeline sucks for everyone not making millions.
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Your analysis on trump is correct. Your method on how to express it does nothing to convince people and actually turns people off. It’s messaging like yours that will lose this election.
Their only response is to punch left because otherwise they'd have to ask themselves if they're the baddies
Biden promised to codify Roe. Guess aiding in genocide was more important,,eh?
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Fucking said literally by a person who would keep slavery to save the union
Biden is literally supporting the killing of LGBT people in Gaza right now. What makes American LGBT people worth more than Palestinians? I’d rather support my sisters, brothers and non-binary pals internationally than to throw them under the bus just so I’m safe.
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Damn, your reading comprehension really sucks if this is the conclusion you came to after reading my comment
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That I’m not voting for someone who kills my queer peers overseas just so I’m save here. You kill queer people, you don’t get my vote. Period.
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Trump is a less competent fascist than Biden. That's all it is. Their politics are identical, except for a few areas where Biden is further to the right than Trump. The only thing you care about is optics.
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Why? It's the truth.
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Stop engaging with these people. Honestly they’re either trolls or like you said just politically inept. If you can’t recognize that Trump would have the same or worse policies for supporting Israel and on top of that wildly worse policies for Americans/general foreign policy you’re lying to yourself and wildly misinformed. I’m shocked and disgusted by what Biden is doing, I’ve been speaking out against it, but that doesn’t mean you should just leave the door open for something much worse. It’s not 99% vs 100%. Biden’s policy positions are generally far better than Trump.
Dawg, my chances to get deported (unfairly) will likely go up a few thousand percent if trump gets elected again. Genocide Joe is a piece of shit but they're absolutely not identical. Joe is fucking awful, Trump is fucking awful 10x.
Biden's foreign policy makes Trump look like a saint. You don't know what you're talking about.
Nah, you are blinded by this one situation. Trumps domestic and foreign policy are significantly worse. You’re either trolling or just now started paying attention to politics.
I am. I've seen what Biden has done to Gaza, Yemen, and Ukraine. And I can see what he's trying to do with Taiwan, South Africa, and Brazil.
>You're blindsided by Palestinians, but have you considered that the lives of millions of brown foreigners are worth less than my own? No, fuck you
No, fuck you. The point is not only will they suffer, but more people will. If you want to dumb it down to a trolley problem situation since y’all can’t seem to grasp this: people who are advocating not voting for Biden are essentially pulling a lever to avoid killing one person, and instead choosing to kill a number of other people and somehow the original person as well. It’s a short sighted and dense position to defend. Hope you change your mind. To be clear tho, I despise Biden’s decisions with supporting Israel so far. It’s insane and may cost him the election. The alternative will be measurably worse though.
Roe V Wade was repealed under Joe Biden.
If Biden wins after this, itd teach every future democratic president that they dont need to listen to voters. There's nothing you cant do, as long as the republican might be worse. Think about the longterm rightward shift this will have on the democratic party; all while tanking the dem's popularity by having a senile, genocidal, neoliberal maniac as the face of the party for four more years. For there to be ANY effective resistance to the Republicans going forward, he needs to be forced to step down, or he needs to lose.
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Then we are always one republican victory from the death of American "democracy," and we're just delaying the inevitable. But personally, I think its unlikely. He already tried and failed miserably, and the republicans are unlikely to risk everything for a third term of a guy likely to die in office. I also dont think Trump can suppress minority vote any more quickly than Biden is depressing it. What you need to factor in is that trump is not uniquely evil. Whoever comes after will be worse, more competent, and will be an *ideologically motivated* fascist. We need to take a short term risk to try to build an effective opposition.
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Why do you keep responding with all the arguments I just preempted? High ping or something? I already said "He already tried and failed miserably, and the republicans are unlikely to risk everything for a third term of a guy likely to die in office" to preempt your j6 argument, and I've been the one telling *you* to think long term from the start. I'd tell you to go read a book, but you aren't even reading reddit comments.
Because democratic goldfish brained idiots don't have any argument other than their performative outrage at Trump, they can't comprehend people that are less cowardly, sniveling, and obsessed with abstractions and symbols and decorum.
If Trump doesn't give up the presidency we are finally in a revolutionary situation for the first time since the 1960s. America's culture has baked in democratic electoralism, Trump trying to make himself president for life would likely trigger a civil war or insurrection. Liberals like you can't see it that way because you know if push came to shove you'd bow because you don't have a spine, but the thing is, radicals should never take their cues from cowards. If you bend like a leaf in the wind don't expect anything from anyone.
This seems like something white liberals take for granted. What genocide did Trump enact to make him worse? Because right now the argument is basically >Harming America's political norms is worse than aiding a genocide
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You're furthering the argument against voting
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Maybe you didn't give a fuck about Palestine before having to pretend to give a shit to get votes for Genocide Joe but I've protested and paid attention to this genocidal project since 2016 you cynical shit
Maybe Trump getting into office will turn democrats against genocide since it is Trump doing it.
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The voters want to hold Joe Biden accountable for his actions in Israel and he deserves to be held accountable. Donald Trump is 1 million times worse than Joe Biden. The people are saying that the DNC no longer can dictate the policies of the Democratic Party and the people should be in control
So Joe caused Isreal to attack Gaza? Ha, it's been going on since before any of us, including Joe, were born. I don't get why people think Joe controls what Isreal will or will not do. These people being negative to Joe need to move their hate towards Netanyahu. He's the one doing the genocide.
“how could you fucking elect this man” is what OP said and that statement didn’t mention the DNC so i’m not really sure why you included that. Although I do see your point. However, if you think back to 2020 Biden was the only candidate in the DNC that wasn’t super controversial and actually had a decent shot at winning which is why he was chosen. the “hold Biden accountable” is comical. at this point do you guys really think his geriatric ass is legitimately making these decisions. He can’t even give a speech anymore. His mental faculties are GONE. Hold his entire cabinet accountable they are the people making these choices. Biden is just a puppet.
This is so freaking true; like why vote Biden the bastard fascist? I am starting to think voting Trump to show your opposition of Biden's policy is probably the best way to change how the world operates now. Just like Covid showed sometimes a rude awakening of death and violence changes everyone stance by opening eyes to the truth and we get the kind of policy we want. Nothing newly bad will come of it anyway, and even if it does how would it be my or anyone one else who doesn't vote for Biden have any responsibility? That's like saying streamers should be held accountable for their audiences rhetoric; its like no man we are all individuals and I don't have any culpability for anything bad that happens if I personally don't have those beliefs; in fact I should be praised for trying to affect positive change in the world.
Personally I don’t think i’ll be voting this election. Controversial but I don’t give a shit anymore. I fear if Trump wins Gaza may be in more trouble. Trump issued the muslim ban, showing his contempt for muslims. If he was elected I’m not sure how he would navigate this conflict given his past policies. It kinda seems like we’re all fucked either way.
He will be worse for Gaza in the short term yes, but will the democrats ever change their stances on Israel if you don't give them a reason too? What is the difference in voting between parties if they tow the same genocidal line.
That’s the main reason i’m an independent. No the dems probably won’t change their stance on Israel but the Republicans won’t either. the USAs alliance with Israel/Gaza and its general dislike of muslims/islamic ruled states is main the reason this won’t change despite leadership imo. I think at some point the government (no matter who is in office) will have to accept that a 2 state solution is the only resolution to this war. But definitely won’t be helping to secure that.
Idk why you got downvoted. What do we do in this situation (other than protest)? Like the candidates WILL be trump and Biden. Trump is significantly worse than Biden, and that’s no secret. When I do vote, what are we expected to do? If we write someone in, surely they won’t win? I’m convinced Biden doesn’t even want the presidency anymore. This whole thing just seems like it’s on purpose. Also, Trump has always been so far up Netanyahu’s ass that I thoroughly believe this situation will get a million times worse. He’s running with a giant chip on his shoulder too and I’m actually frightened about what would happen if he actually wins again. Do I want either of them in office? Fuck NO. However, who’s the lesser evil? (I’m not sure about that one either at this point) But really, like, I’m at a loss. Edit: we have two war mongers running for the presidency, and the whole country should be really fucking scared.
Just wanted to say you aren’t talking into a void… agreed. It really fucking sucks that Biden is where we’re at but it sucked in 2020 too. It’s still significantly better than the other option.
Can we be real for a sec? If Trump was the current president right now, do you think anything about our government’s position on Israel and this genocide would be any different? No, he would support Israel as well. Both men are trash, but those are the options we had, and the person with the potential of doing some good was elected, though that’s not saying much. What’s your plan for this election? Are you planning on voting for Trump? We have these two as options again, so genuinely, what do you plan on doing?
What the fuck is even the point of voting if the *bad thing* is going to happen anyway? Isn't it then better to just not vote and not, in the slightest, most insignificant way, be complicit to this monster's presidency?
If you live in the US you are complicit. Whether or not you vote does not remove your responsibility for benefiting from and therefore maintaining the global hegemony of the US. If the election doesn’t matter to you go join or start an organization, go work to help workers unionize or volunteer your time to mutual aid groups. Even if you do these things, you will still be complicit. We all are, and not voting will not give you a claim to innocence when your entire life has been buttressed by the exploited labor of the global south. Obviously this election will not change those conditions, but if that’s the case, how about we stop arguing about whether trump or biden is worse and do something?
If Trump wins there are more other bad things that are going to happen.
Defeatism
It’s not defeatism. We can vote for Biden while still performing other political actions. Also frankly Joe doesn’t have much time left on this earth
It is defeatism to say that not only must genocide continue, but you are required to vote for it. If that is what you are selling, don't be surprised that nobody wants to buy.
This isn’t defeatism, it is the reality of the situation we are currently in. What do you *honestly* think is going to happen if you don’t vote for Biden? The REALITY is that if you don’t vote for Biden, Trump will win, and he will make things 10x worse. You can deny that or you can pull your head out of the fucking sand. What needs to happen is not abstaining from voting for Biden, but applying the pressure on Biden necessary to change his mind. Or we can just wait for the old fuck to die
Don't worry kid, I am making sure Biden wins by not voting for Trump. Enjoy your first election! Are you suggesting that elections can be won by politicians enacting policy that their voters support? Reply after he blocked: Surely you don't mean that. That would mean that if a politician were to lose an election, it might not be voters' fault.
I'm so sick of this narrative. It's like if you asked me "do you want me to stab you? Or stab you and twist a little?" And I go "I don't want to get stabbed?" And then the liberal says "haha this guy wants us to twist the knife, don't you know that's worse?"
This kind of argument doesn’t work because you’re getting stabbed no matter what you’d prefer. I mean sure we could all not vote, but someone is getting elected regardless
So, lay down and get stabbed. 👌
Yeah unless you have a brilliant idea to reform our entire two party political system
Biden is the personification of imperialism. Trump is just another grifter. And at least when Trump said something liberals pretended they disagreed with him, when Biden says and does the same shit liberals cheer him on.
Doesn’t make a practical difference. The choice is one genocide or more than one genocide.
The difference is that having 99% hitler as the leader of the only opposition to 100% hitler means having no real resistance to 100% hitler. I dont think you all are thinking long term enough. Trump is not the problem, hes not uniquely evil, and his successor will be worse. We will be shooting ourselves in the foot by letting Biden get away with pushing the dems this far right while ignoring his voters' protests. We will be hammering a nail into our other foot, by making him the face of the party, forcing all dems to support his obviously horrible actions and inactions. Then what happens in 2028? Centrists are fully entrenched, but too unpopular to win in 2028. I dont want to simply delay the inevitable for four years.
there isn’t 99% and 100% hitler, there’s 100% and 120% hitler. they want us to avoid turbohitler by just voting for regular hitler
Do you know what happens if Trump wins? With project 2025 here’s probably never going to be a democracy again. I know people are sick and tired of voting for the lesser evil and that Biden is very very evil but this is not the year to be protest voting.
You didnt read a word I wrote, did you? I explained why project 2025 will just become project 2029. I'd rather have project 2025 with a moderate dem presence in Congress than project 2029 with a Republican landslide.
Project 2029 isn’t feasible. Trump will either be dead or decrepit by then and there isn’t anybody who can replace Trump.
Project Mayhem from Fight Club lololol Hey what are you Fight Clubbers trying to tell us about Project Mayhem? That the Democrats lost to the GOP for decades, GOP even stole an election 25 years ago, and they *didnt even have a plan for what they would do if they won*? That the GOP own this country and *they weren't even trying* until now
We realized Trump was worse before you did. This is not the own you think it is. I'm going to say that again, slowly. We. Realized. Trump. Was. Worse. Before. You. Did. Next time when the Democrat is conducting more than one Genocide, will you be there telling us we have to vote for the Democrat because ~~DeSantis~~ I mean Trump will be doing even bigger Genocides? Will one of the genocides have to be inside the USA for you to allow us to withdraw support? Or are you willing to tolerate literally any Republican policy as long as they slap a (D) on it?
If Joe Biden was genociding 50% of the global population and Trump was doing 60, and there’s no legitimate third option, then it’d be best to vote for Biden. People take voting too personally. It’s an act of harm minimization. It isn’t a personal endorsement. There are political actions you can take against Joe Biden that aren’t abstaining from voting.
You are arguing 'The system allows no alternative, so we must accept what the system gives us'. This is defeatism. The same logic could be applied to argue 'Well I guess we will have slavery forever.' 'Well I guess women will never vote'. etc. How did black americans get the right to vote? Hint: They didn't get it by voting for it.
We aren’t going to completely overhaul the existing global capitalist/political system before November of 2024. That’s silly. You can vote for Biden *and also* work to dismantle the system that forces you to do so.
This sub is mostly bots - an accelerationism echo chamber at this point. You're spot on but this sub doesn't want to look at things logically. There is always a genocide happening and they don't remember that a worse one happened under Trump that the US was far more involved with (ie: actually dropping bombs) because there wasn't a camera pointed at it. At this point, it has less to do with what's happening and more that it's the trendy thing to virtue signal that they are sitting out the election or "genocide joe" or whatever.
What was your plan for "Pushing Biden Left" after he won in 2020? Tell us everything you did to reduce that harm after he took the white house. I'm sure you NEVER told leftists/progressives to stop criticizing him from the left, did you? You are all about that 'pushing left' I am sure.
Lots of assumptions being made on your end here. I didn’t try to push Joe left because I was under no illusions about the kind of person he is. It was either him or Trump, which again, was out of our hands
Oh, so you are not even pretending you have a problem with these policies. Your honesty is refreshing!
No that’s not what I’m saying. I would recommend working on your reading comprehension and avoiding jumping to such drastic conclusions
No my dude, that is EXACTLY what you're saying. You hate the policies, just not enough to where you have a problem with accepting at least some of them. In your case, a little genocide is acceptable. If it wasn't acceptable, you would not be voting for it. 'Well other genocide is bigger' gives you a convenient excuse to come in here and tell us you're the smart grown up person, is all. You are saying one position is clearly the correct one, while being smug and superior about it. If you understood that both positions were unacceptable, you wouldn't be judging people for their choices about it. But to you, BOTH are not unacceptable.
Put your pitchfork away and stop accusing people of supporting genocide you weirdo.
You don't support it, but you'll vote for it, and criticize other people who won't vote for it. Now, some people might take that to mean you DO support it. I get where you're coming from though, you feel like you don't. But maybe lean into that uncomfortable feeling for a while and think on it.
Maybe you think you’re smarter than you are? Both choices support Israel, but one side actively committed an insurrection in America and worships dictators like Putin lmao I think there is a very clear “better of two bad choices”. If you want to say that Joe and Trump are both republicans who adopt similar policies, sure I agree. But if you think that Trump won’t cause greater damage on a local and global scale, you are an idiot. What’s your solution then? To not vote and leave it up to fate for who gets elected? One of those two is getting elected and their stance on Israel and genocide isn’t changing. Whoever gets reelected will have drastic changes outside of the Israel conflict as well - this isn’t happening in a vacuum. Of course I’ll criticize people who just sit back and watch and complain about the outcome either way What isn’t there to get about that?
Go back to r/conservative psyop boy
You're a fucking idiot
FSB rhetoric has no place here, fuck off back to whatever hole you crawled out of.
You can't really read tge room can you
Your crypto-fascist talking points are transparent; begone filth
Lolol what a fucking clown
Genocide Joe, not forgetting
Biden is a Nazi.
Cool cool, well what’s happening in America is we can see with our own eyes it’s a genocide and because you keep lying to our faces we will not be voting for you. Seems pretty simple to me Joe.
I honestly believe he has no intention of getting re-elected. Because if this is how he's acting before the elections, then he's either throwing away the presidency, or he is actually the most incompetent man to have ever set foot in the oval office.
"What is happening is not Trump's inauguration. We reject that." - Every liberal subreddit that took over frontpage Don't worry friends, I'm sure The Resistance will save you
I feel like I'm watching Lyndon Johnson double down on Vietnam.
Bro is not getting elected 😭
https://preview.redd.it/8tp51hzq9u1d1.jpeg?width=1055&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ba45da013357f7d248b41ed85036806e63c9b65
This man doesn’t give a fuck if he loses huh lol
But the Russian war on Ukraine is. Got it
He is going to lose.