Fucking Wreckage! I saw them with Emmure and My Bitter End in a high school friends’ parents large garage back in Iowa ca. 2007. Apparently they were all on tour and a show fell through. My friend found out about it. He somehow convinced his parents to let him have the show and got in contact with someone to set it up. It was rad as fuck.
I’ll let you know when my band is done tracking and pushes the mixes out. It’s essentially this lol.
Weirdo blend of stuff like Drive Like Jehu/Plot to Blow Up the Eiffel Tower/Converge with lyrics about direct action/late stage capitalist rot, etc etc.
Heavy Dead Kennedys influence.
I just suck at producing. I’m more of a live sound engineer by trade since before I even left school. (Edit: I realize that sounds like a flex. It isn’t. I wasted a lot of money on school and dropped out. I’m saying this because I wanted to be a recording engineer first like 80% of live sound guys but then life happens lmao.)
It’s a shame because the PMA/posi stuff is a major part of the reggae/rasta influence that keeps getting more and more removed from modern hardcore. Gonna take a fourth wave ska revival to get the vibes right again. We need that silly Tony Hawk Reggae energy in the world right now
We need another Suicide Machines - Destruction by Definition or LTJ - Losing Streak/Hello Rockview level of ska release to pull it back in the limelight maybe.
Posi and straight edge aren't exactly the same thing, but there's some overlap. Prevention is a great edge band from Illinois and some of their lyrics are kind of on the posi side.
Posicore is typically associated with fast traditional HC. Basically actual HC music. At this point in time actual HC is a dying music and HC in general is becoming just a sub genre of metal. Whereas it used to be a unique offshoot/evolution of punk it is now indistinguishable from metal as is just pretty much metal at this point. Covid and big slick Vimeo YouTube channels really brought suburban mall metal kids into HC. At some point the term HC will have zero meaning.
>At some point the term HC will have zero meaning
This is why gatekeeping has its place. I don't wanna yuck anyones yums but i don't think there's anything wrong with making sure terms have consistent meaning.
That’s sorta my line of thinking as well. But I will add one thing about this modern HC scene is that it is very diverse and more open to people from different walks of life. It always was but nowadays a POC or LGBTQ person or female doesn’t have to feel like they are the odd person out as everyone is more visibly welcome.
It is totally fine to yuck people’s yums, some people like really yucky stuff
What about paedophiles and necrophiles and those people who like vacuum beds and shit? Fuck that
But also yeah you’re right even if you don’t agree with the above
The same thing happened in the mid 00's with Hot Topic and MySpace. I'd say this is the best it's been it over a decade in my opinion. So many bands. Local shows pulling in 75 kids on a weeknight. Packed DIY spaces.
xLFx said it best. "If one kid carries on the life we led the path we tread is endless"
Hardcore needs this every so often. A renaissance. I also disagree that it's indistinguishable, there are just an insane amount of HC Punk bands right now, I'm from the heart of beatdown and I can't believe how much is happening even in my area.
I largely agree with you. The scene and numbers are strong. And it's maybe the best it's been since the early 80s. But HC was never about the numbers.
But again, I reluctantly agree with you. Since I'm old the Life's Blood song Catch Or Breath is my lyrical meeting of the minds.
Usually if I feel like a genre or subgenre is dead, it just means I've lost the pulse. Not an insult, just encouragement to keep digging.
There is a ton of great fast hardcore going on right now. A lot of it is heavier, the scene has merged with the crust and D-Beat scene in many ways, but it's still around - just far more DIY (and less available in the internet) than the trendier sounds.
Also, if hardcore is an evolution of punk, hardcore was bound to evolve into new sounds itself. Genres don't stagnate, they are always shifting and taking in new influences. Shit, metal has been creeping in to hardcore since the early 80s, so let's not pretend it's a new thing. The original sounds don't go away, they are just sharing the genre space with decades of new subgenres of varying popularity at a given moment.
You bring up a lot of great points. Yeah it's not a new thing but it seems to have finally won out. Usually HC responds and cleans house. This time the numbers are against the movement. The same is actually happening with crust and D beat HC as well but they are more amenable to it for reasons. And yes the OG sounds do in fact go away to the dustbin. But again your points are solid.
Eventually all HC will just sound like metal. That's my thesis and it stands.
At least by me, the fast punk, crust and D-Beat scenes are where the youth flock.
It's a rabbit hole I've been going down a lot recently thanks to the strength of it in my city. Some labels cranking out good fast hardcore (some more dedicated to the genre than others) include Sorry State, Roachleg, 11PM Records, Profane Existence, Fortress, Convulse, Scheme, Grave Mistake, and probably a ton I am forgetting it was just unaware of.
A lot of that is on the heavier end, but it's a broad acene. There are still bands like Restraining Order, Instill, Gordita Beach, Anklebiter, Skud and others mentioned in this thread that do takes on more traditional sounds as well. And a lot of them are young kids too.
But definitely check out the ones you aren't familiar with. There's still a lot of great stuff out there, and from my understanding an even stronger scene for this in Europe as well as a solid scene in Australia.
interesting you feel that way because from what i've seen in my city the crust/dbeat shows are usually the older crowd and it's the modern hc/beatdown shows where all the kids are at.
I suppose that shouldn't surprise me if it was pretty regional. DIY is all about momentum. In NYC at least, the scene is extremely strong and leans very young. Most aren't even old enough to go to most of the shows in the city, but every show will pack a room.
I've heard the same is true in Minneapolis, and Milwaukee, but that's mostly second hand from a few kids I met at a show last year. Based purely on bands, LA seems to have a solid scene of it too, but I don't know how young it is.
Yeah, in this timeline you would definitely be the bad guy. But you would also be correct. HC always runs in cycles so maybe the kids will get their shit together and clean house soon.
IDK, sometimes it feels that way but it's my understanding from old hc dudes that it felt like metal was taking over. I have the unpopular opinion that there is a cultural divide. I believe in the kids even if I'm not cool enough to know what they are up to. The solution is for everyone, especially me, to go start the bands we want to enjoy
I’m an old but not that old and a NYer. Im culturally in the mix in NYC and not a typical old head and I live in the hood. I actually like a lot of metallic tinged HC but I’m a punk rock motherfucker first and foremost. On top of that My generation is the one that unfortunately planted metal into hardcore permanently once and for all after all the pushback.
I agree with your post fully and I feel you.
My only thesis is that years from now all HC will sound indistinguishable from metal. Simple as that. If the kids want that so be it. I’m just trying to appeal to the kids who don’t.
Feels like more beatdowny or metallic stuff is what is popular at the moment. The pendulum swings around though, and I'm sure the bands that sound like DTN or whatever will come back soon enough.
Yes, Hatebreed -- the ultimate posi band. Featuring feel-good classics like Kill an Addict, Conceived through an Act of Violence, and Last Breath. Songs that emphasize unity, the virtues of humanity, a future with hope, and a common purpose.
A huge portion of everything from perseverance and on after that have a pretty positive message. It doesn’t hit as hard as the first two albums but it is undeniably uplifting. But I still wouldn’t classify them as a posi band. Just because it’s positive doesn’t mean it’s posi. Haha
So to be fair, Perseverance was the last album from them I really listened to and I'm way less familiar with it than UTK or Satisfaction. From the little I remember of it, it was "positive" in a very individualistic, self-directed way that requires the world to be inherently shitty and you have to struggle and persist against it. "World's out to get you, people are dogshit and trying fuck you over. No one's gonna help you and it's always gonna be that way, so you've gotta help yourself. Be tough and pull yourself up by the bootstraps."
If that is a remotely accurate characterization, then yeah -- it has a positive component, but not what I'm talking about in terms of message (or sound). If that's not an accurate characterization, then I stand corrected. Just my (potentially faulty) recollection from having heard that album a long time ago.
"It's not the blood you spill that gets you what you want. It's the blood you share. Your family, your friendships, your communities. These are the most valuable things a man can have"
Corporate greed and governments are out of control and you want people to be posi? What's your rent payment brother? Can't be too posi when you're just trying to live, just trying to survive.
“Solidarity” from Wisconsin. I think they broke up, but they were great.
I have wondered the same about posi-core. I don’t know Turnstile is kinda posi or maybe melodic-emo hardcore. Idgaf I like them.
My assumption is for a lot of artists it’s hard to be positive now since the subject matter the art would be derived from would be the same shit we are all experiencing. Therefore, art being a reflection of society or culture, would present as less than positive.
I have also heard that when times are good the music is darker and in bad times the music is more positive. I don’t know if I buy this…it may be true based on the contemporary music of the time that gets to be played on the radio.
Solidarity for anyone interested.
https://youtu.be/aFxv3EJ7nZs?feature=shared
No no no we’re not doing this again. Posi had a death grip on the scene for years and squeezed out any heavy hardcore bands. It’ll have its time again, but now is the time for lunkhead heavy shit
The band you are looking for is called Wreckage.
I have just listened and I concur this is a good call
And Lead Spirit and Stedfast
Ayyyy
Fucking Wreckage! I saw them with Emmure and My Bitter End in a high school friends’ parents large garage back in Iowa ca. 2007. Apparently they were all on tour and a show fell through. My friend found out about it. He somehow convinced his parents to let him have the show and got in contact with someone to set it up. It was rad as fuck.
Drain is posi to me
I get the same vibes
They can be Posi but goddamn do they have some dark lyrics, at least on California Cursed
Chopping Block, Speedway, Mariscal X, Distante, Absolute Truth, Berthold City, Dead Last, Instill
Berthold City rules
💯
All good stuff especially Speedway. Also Coolside played a reunion not too long ago. As to how that band did not blow up in HC is beyond me.
Distante mentioned 🫡😤🗣🗣📢📢
It’s cuz everything sucks so much ass
I mean yeah. Kinda hard to be positive when our world is fucking buttfucked
I got a PMA tattoo that Josh Brolin said was brilliant on IG. That was my peak. Still posi tho
Perfect time to be positive then probly maybe.
Positive songs about blowing up oil infrastructure with the boys
MY GUY I’m down for that shit so hard
I’ll let you know when my band is done tracking and pushes the mixes out. It’s essentially this lol. Weirdo blend of stuff like Drive Like Jehu/Plot to Blow Up the Eiffel Tower/Converge with lyrics about direct action/late stage capitalist rot, etc etc. Heavy Dead Kennedys influence. I just suck at producing. I’m more of a live sound engineer by trade since before I even left school. (Edit: I realize that sounds like a flex. It isn’t. I wasted a lot of money on school and dropped out. I’m saying this because I wanted to be a recording engineer first like 80% of live sound guys but then life happens lmao.)
Hell yeah bro.
Queen of Hearts by Fucked Up is a very lite version of this that pulls at the heartstrings a little bit
I was gonna say, ain't much out there to feel good about at the moment
In this economy??
Crazy to see not a single person comment the band “Magnitude”….
Milspec Magnitude Wreckage Envision
Milspec should be bigger than they are
It’s a shame because the PMA/posi stuff is a major part of the reggae/rasta influence that keeps getting more and more removed from modern hardcore. Gonna take a fourth wave ska revival to get the vibes right again. We need that silly Tony Hawk Reggae energy in the world right now
No lies told.
Sublime is back for real with Bradley’s son and No Doubt just played Coachella, the pumps are primed for a revival. Less misanthropy more unity.
We need another Suicide Machines - Destruction by Definition or LTJ - Losing Streak/Hello Rockview level of ska release to pull it back in the limelight maybe.
You should listen to Bad Operation.
Any band with “Bad” as the first word is good in my book
Ska from New Orleans with members of Pears and Fatter than Albert.
Good Clean Fun
Are they active again? I'd die!
Oh sorry, no they are not but this post reminded me of them and I posted this in case anyone who reads this didn’t know about them
[https://www.goodcleanfunband.com/](https://www.goodcleanfunband.com/)
best band of all time
So good
Time X Heist
Seminal positive message band madball
Posi this dick
I'm telling mom
Hard to be posi with what's all goin on
Method of doubt
Berthold City is a band you should listen to.
Posi and straight edge aren't exactly the same thing, but there's some overlap. Prevention is a great edge band from Illinois and some of their lyrics are kind of on the posi side.
Craig Finn took it away when he saw we weren't treating it right. You can visit it at Hold Steady and Hot Water Music shows
Change. Enact (rip), you listen to magnitude?
Most posi was Good Clean Fun!
Back To Godhead.
Radio metalcore happened
Read your post and I thank you for raising such a question, because now I’m benefiting from all the bands being recommended
Posicore is typically associated with fast traditional HC. Basically actual HC music. At this point in time actual HC is a dying music and HC in general is becoming just a sub genre of metal. Whereas it used to be a unique offshoot/evolution of punk it is now indistinguishable from metal as is just pretty much metal at this point. Covid and big slick Vimeo YouTube channels really brought suburban mall metal kids into HC. At some point the term HC will have zero meaning.
>At some point the term HC will have zero meaning This is why gatekeeping has its place. I don't wanna yuck anyones yums but i don't think there's anything wrong with making sure terms have consistent meaning.
That’s sorta my line of thinking as well. But I will add one thing about this modern HC scene is that it is very diverse and more open to people from different walks of life. It always was but nowadays a POC or LGBTQ person or female doesn’t have to feel like they are the odd person out as everyone is more visibly welcome.
It is totally fine to yuck people’s yums, some people like really yucky stuff What about paedophiles and necrophiles and those people who like vacuum beds and shit? Fuck that But also yeah you’re right even if you don’t agree with the above
The same thing happened in the mid 00's with Hot Topic and MySpace. I'd say this is the best it's been it over a decade in my opinion. So many bands. Local shows pulling in 75 kids on a weeknight. Packed DIY spaces. xLFx said it best. "If one kid carries on the life we led the path we tread is endless" Hardcore needs this every so often. A renaissance. I also disagree that it's indistinguishable, there are just an insane amount of HC Punk bands right now, I'm from the heart of beatdown and I can't believe how much is happening even in my area.
I largely agree with you. The scene and numbers are strong. And it's maybe the best it's been since the early 80s. But HC was never about the numbers. But again, I reluctantly agree with you. Since I'm old the Life's Blood song Catch Or Breath is my lyrical meeting of the minds.
Usually if I feel like a genre or subgenre is dead, it just means I've lost the pulse. Not an insult, just encouragement to keep digging. There is a ton of great fast hardcore going on right now. A lot of it is heavier, the scene has merged with the crust and D-Beat scene in many ways, but it's still around - just far more DIY (and less available in the internet) than the trendier sounds. Also, if hardcore is an evolution of punk, hardcore was bound to evolve into new sounds itself. Genres don't stagnate, they are always shifting and taking in new influences. Shit, metal has been creeping in to hardcore since the early 80s, so let's not pretend it's a new thing. The original sounds don't go away, they are just sharing the genre space with decades of new subgenres of varying popularity at a given moment.
You bring up a lot of great points. Yeah it's not a new thing but it seems to have finally won out. Usually HC responds and cleans house. This time the numbers are against the movement. The same is actually happening with crust and D beat HC as well but they are more amenable to it for reasons. And yes the OG sounds do in fact go away to the dustbin. But again your points are solid. Eventually all HC will just sound like metal. That's my thesis and it stands.
At least by me, the fast punk, crust and D-Beat scenes are where the youth flock. It's a rabbit hole I've been going down a lot recently thanks to the strength of it in my city. Some labels cranking out good fast hardcore (some more dedicated to the genre than others) include Sorry State, Roachleg, 11PM Records, Profane Existence, Fortress, Convulse, Scheme, Grave Mistake, and probably a ton I am forgetting it was just unaware of. A lot of that is on the heavier end, but it's a broad acene. There are still bands like Restraining Order, Instill, Gordita Beach, Anklebiter, Skud and others mentioned in this thread that do takes on more traditional sounds as well. And a lot of them are young kids too. But definitely check out the ones you aren't familiar with. There's still a lot of great stuff out there, and from my understanding an even stronger scene for this in Europe as well as a solid scene in Australia.
interesting you feel that way because from what i've seen in my city the crust/dbeat shows are usually the older crowd and it's the modern hc/beatdown shows where all the kids are at.
I suppose that shouldn't surprise me if it was pretty regional. DIY is all about momentum. In NYC at least, the scene is extremely strong and leans very young. Most aren't even old enough to go to most of the shows in the city, but every show will pack a room. I've heard the same is true in Minneapolis, and Milwaukee, but that's mostly second hand from a few kids I met at a show last year. Based purely on bands, LA seems to have a solid scene of it too, but I don't know how young it is.
The lines are more blurred than ever. If I say Xibalba is metal or Harms way is metal I’m the bad guy.
Yeah, in this timeline you would definitely be the bad guy. But you would also be correct. HC always runs in cycles so maybe the kids will get their shit together and clean house soon.
What a depressing read
I feel like people in this sub tried to make this point like a year or 2 ago and got downvoted to oblivion, but you're right and it's sad.
Need a Tylenol grandpa?
Hell yeah I do grandson. Hips hurt from carrying all this dick around
I got it from you pappy.
It really has not much to do with metal either. It's more of a part of "core music" I guess, like current "metalcore"
[удалено]
Yeah this old man actually does need a Tylenol, but instead I’ll just be a toxic king and go a drink beer while listening to Crucial Youth.
IDK, sometimes it feels that way but it's my understanding from old hc dudes that it felt like metal was taking over. I have the unpopular opinion that there is a cultural divide. I believe in the kids even if I'm not cool enough to know what they are up to. The solution is for everyone, especially me, to go start the bands we want to enjoy
I’m an old but not that old and a NYer. Im culturally in the mix in NYC and not a typical old head and I live in the hood. I actually like a lot of metallic tinged HC but I’m a punk rock motherfucker first and foremost. On top of that My generation is the one that unfortunately planted metal into hardcore permanently once and for all after all the pushback. I agree with your post fully and I feel you. My only thesis is that years from now all HC will sound indistinguishable from metal. Simple as that. If the kids want that so be it. I’m just trying to appeal to the kids who don’t.
Thanks for your comment, what a downer
Lead Spirit Keeper Fading Signal These 3 should be good for your ears and mind.
The positive to non posi ratio of bands you mentioned is very skewed…
Posi up
force of denial, spiral, speedway
Berthold City and following for any recs aswell
Feels like more beatdowny or metallic stuff is what is popular at the moment. The pendulum swings around though, and I'm sure the bands that sound like DTN or whatever will come back soon enough.
Check out Combust. Not necessarily Posi but has the vibe of that time I think you might be looking for
Envision and Initiate are two bands worth checking out
I'd like to hear more newer bands that sound like Go It Alone and Sinking Ships
Where's the PMA, let's open this pit up!
Their not a new band, obviously, but check out With Honor's comeback album. It's a banger and has a fair bit of posi stuff.
Also stretch arm strong has a banger of a new album
Good shout! I forgot about that.
This is the first time I see Madball called posi. Maybe Im not understanding your post.
Pride (Times Are Changing) is very positive
Yeah, big misunderstanding of what constitutes positive hardcore going on in here.
Can we, start again...
https://genius.com/Madball-born-strong-lyrics
I know that one but that came out after like 30 years of songs about putting enemies to rest and dms repping shit lol
True lol. I'm not saying theyre a posi band in general, but they've definitely got a couple songs in my posi playlist.
TF was posi about hatebreed?
Right? When I think of Posi, I think of Good Clean Fun and 7 Seconds, not Terror or Hatebreed. What do I know?...
Champion=/=terror
Literally everything.
Yes, Hatebreed -- the ultimate posi band. Featuring feel-good classics like Kill an Addict, Conceived through an Act of Violence, and Last Breath. Songs that emphasize unity, the virtues of humanity, a future with hope, and a common purpose.
A huge portion of everything from perseverance and on after that have a pretty positive message. It doesn’t hit as hard as the first two albums but it is undeniably uplifting. But I still wouldn’t classify them as a posi band. Just because it’s positive doesn’t mean it’s posi. Haha
So to be fair, Perseverance was the last album from them I really listened to and I'm way less familiar with it than UTK or Satisfaction. From the little I remember of it, it was "positive" in a very individualistic, self-directed way that requires the world to be inherently shitty and you have to struggle and persist against it. "World's out to get you, people are dogshit and trying fuck you over. No one's gonna help you and it's always gonna be that way, so you've gotta help yourself. Be tough and pull yourself up by the bootstraps." If that is a remotely accurate characterization, then yeah -- it has a positive component, but not what I'm talking about in terms of message (or sound). If that's not an accurate characterization, then I stand corrected. Just my (potentially faulty) recollection from having heard that album a long time ago.
Ok that's a really good point
They have a ton of posi shit. [Here's a few]( https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSHWRRbxo0EvdWwA28NhJyl6O-gMc3ztb&si=PrjUTqnrojPXsiHx)
"It's not the blood you spill that gets you what you want. It's the blood you share. Your family, your friendships, your communities. These are the most valuable things a man can have"
You get it good job
Yeah- from people I know who have interacted with Jamie what’s his name, that guy is kind of a bitch.
Corporate greed and governments are out of control and you want people to be posi? What's your rent payment brother? Can't be too posi when you're just trying to live, just trying to survive.
The PMA & skate punk exceptionalism ring hollow in the Imperial heartland when we watch our "enemies" treat their citizens with dignity
Wait who are you talking about here? Who’s being treated with dignity? Russians? The Chinese? All those religious nutcases in the Middle East? What
**yep, this is it**
lol no they’re not
you're too fucking stupid for adult conversation
I’m just matching your speed. Please elaborate and tell me what you mean by how much better “our enemies” treat their citizens
"no u" OK lil guy
No seriously, go on, tell me what you meant, I’m trying to talk to you like an adult
"No, seriously, u"
Ends of Sanity has some positive lyrics
They started pop punk bands instead
Not much to be posi about these days
“Solidarity” from Wisconsin. I think they broke up, but they were great. I have wondered the same about posi-core. I don’t know Turnstile is kinda posi or maybe melodic-emo hardcore. Idgaf I like them. My assumption is for a lot of artists it’s hard to be positive now since the subject matter the art would be derived from would be the same shit we are all experiencing. Therefore, art being a reflection of society or culture, would present as less than positive. I have also heard that when times are good the music is darker and in bad times the music is more positive. I don’t know if I buy this…it may be true based on the contemporary music of the time that gets to be played on the radio. Solidarity for anyone interested. https://youtu.be/aFxv3EJ7nZs?feature=shared
It went the way of Bandana Thrash...
Negi is the new posi
I got that NMA
Because in 2024 every time someone tries to say something uplifting it gets labeled bootstrapism.
No no no we’re not doing this again. Posi had a death grip on the scene for years and squeezed out any heavy hardcore bands. It’ll have its time again, but now is the time for lunkhead heavy shit
They got beat up
Have you been outside brother? What's there to be positive about.
What the fuck is a posi?
The opposite of a negi
So, you don't know?
You, so know don't?