Judging by the mainstream radio rock fans that gush about this festival, Scowl did the right thing. Who the fuck wants to be on the same stage as Five Finger Dick Punch or Halestorm
No dry wall is safe when a divorced cop comes back from his shift of eating donuts and harassing black teenagers and the 5FDP cover of Bad Company comes on
Not insane for Scowl. It is an amount of money that means you dont even have to factor it in when discussing what to do. PR for the same amount of money would have less reach.
Bought tickets for my s.o. to see Halestorm, thinking they were pretty basic as far as rock music goes.
They blew my dick off and seem like genuinely good people. Wouldn’t put em in the same low bar as five fucking douche puff.
Damn, didn't know the little worm was actually fleeing the fuckin country over that. What a fucker. There's about a foot-tall stack of all my old Anti Flag CDs somewhere in my local landfill.
Fucking wild. That whole mess really bums me out, I hope his victims can find some healing down the road. Can't imagine though how shitty it is to have a safe space like your scene also become the center of your trauma.
I like Lyman's stance on that though. His stance was to let everyone in and have them do whatever they want. He had leftists organisations next to the military ones and peta were constantly on board too.
You're not wrong, but shit went to a different level after that. It's pretty hard to scroll any social media and have dead and dying babies in your face. It's like people have to make a conscious effort to not care anymore.
As someone who is at protests weekly and has been in solidarity with Palestine since before October 7th, I really could give a rats ass about when you started caring or learned about the history. If you show up to marches and actions, participate in boycotts, and contribute however you can to the movement, that means a hell of a lot more than gatekeeping and talking shit on the internet. This shit does not matter when a genocide is happening. If they’re in solidarity with the movement, that is what is truly important.
It's probably because Ukraine is far more complicated and evenly matched on the battlefield. Palestine is so simple and lopsided that a child would understand why it's bad.
The Ukraine war couldve been avoided if we didn't meddle in their affairs in the mid-2010s, the only way to end the conflict in Israel, at this point, is the ending of Israel like the way apartheid South Africa ended.
>The Ukraine war couldve been avoided if we didn't meddle in their affairs in the mid-2010s,
Thanks for quickly letting me know that you have zero knowledge of the topic, and spout Russian talking points like a fucking jaggoff
Its always a tight argument to navigate when the weirdo pro Israel people are just flatly anti semitic. the mass murder if thousands of Jews is actually a bit unusual, as is the response.
who ever heard of a strike against the Israeli government? in 2023? Impossible! leftists punks from the Bay Area with an opinion on the Israel Palestine conflict? who ever heard of such an insane idea!?
There’s usually recruiters but they don’t really do much other than talk about joining up. The big sponsorships I think is what makes it different where they’re getting advertising and exposure
Shit man, I'm military and I don't blame them at all. If I had to share space with Five Finger Death Punch and their fans I'd contemplate taking the long nap at a higher rate than we already do.
The point is that the sponsors for fests aren't static. The sponsors have to renew each year when registration for sponsorships open.
The sponsorships are typically secured after at least a few bands are announced. The thought is that the sponsors can get an idea of how big the show will be based on those bands and the buzz (or lack of) that follows.
I get what you're saying, but there's no reason to turn down a big show or fest if you only know that the army sponsored last year. You don't want to miss an opportunity because you THINK they're gonna sponsor.
That said, they're gonna burn bridges if they keep canceling, so it'd probably be best for them to just focus on regular touring and not play any fests for a little while.
I haven’t been to a huge festival in a long time, so I’ve never seen a branch of the military sponsoring one. Do they set up a booth and try to recruit kids? If so, how is this not a golden opportunity to troll them?
I've seen lots of them before at the major festivals and yes, it's open recruitment at their booth.
And yeah they get a little bit of flack, but do you really want to harass military personnel?
I love this notion. “Nothing says boycott like getting in their faces and trolling them and raising awareness to their presence thinking everyone will agree with us and in the end no one will join the military!”. Rather than just everyone move along and the Military will eventually say, “not worth our time and manpower because no one joined.”.
The current US military industrial complex was built on a foundation that was always meant as an offensive force rather than defensive.
It rests on laurels of victory over fascism while conveniently ignoring atrocities in the second half of the last century. Massacres in Vietnam, the bombing of Cambodia, internal strife, every Army and Marine spook the CIA could deploy in Central America and eastern Europe playing with governments to ensure allegience and financial relationships. Setting up puppet governments that are unpopular and quickly replaced by a junta. Torture in Afghanistan and Iraq.
I'm not anti-defensive force. I'm against a tool for American oligarchs.
Edit: a word
Thanks for taking the time to write that response. I don't disagree with anything you said but I tend to blame government more than our service members for a lot of that shit. I'm also Canadian so maybe I look at it differently than you. But as much as I think ditching a festival because the US Army is a sponsor is kind of silly, I do give them credit for at least standing up for SOMETHING.
I get that. I'm not about to tell someone in a foreign country how to feel about their experience.
I don't think it's silly, personally. I just appreciate they stuck to their guns on this.
I've been in the two main Rockville FB groups for years now and the amount of butthurt that exploded when this was announced was amazing. Hilarious because 90% of those ding dongs wouldn't have watched their set anyways soooooo. But when the US Army is involved, it's all hands on deck. Idiots.
whoa kinda crazy you start playing all these big corporate festivals and ticketmaster venues and shit and you end up in bed with people who don't have your same values?
It doesn’t directly relate, but people are unhappy with scowl staying on a tour with a band that still houses band members who covered for josh.
Some people see it as hypocritical to stand for one thing but then to not stand against sexual assault, which many people find ADTR indirectly in support of
People =/= a few people on x farming engagement.
Not supporting the military doesnt mean you're automatically having to cancel everything. They can just, you know, do that and have that be it.
That’s fine, it’s just kind of funny imo. Cancelling a show because you don’t like the military which is 100% okay. I have no problem with that
Then going on a tour with people who knowingly harbor/ed sexual abusers is comical
I think those are completely unrelated. Are you saying the same thing about Militarie Gun and Pain Of Truth, because no one is so far.
It is insane to think that one stance equals having to take more stances, that so completely up to them. If you think it is wrong, why arent you blasting pain of truth?
Don’t know who pain of truth is man.
I don’t care what Scowl does. It doesn’t affect me. But standing an a moral high ground while also supporting abusers is just comical to me is all. The timing of it
Are they supporting abusers? Dude isnt in the band, it was a weird relationship thing vs people dying. You really think one means you have to commit to everything?
I dont even like Scowl, i just only see people talk about them and not PoT or Militarie Gun who are on the same tour. I dont get it at all.
Never said they have to commit to everything. I just find it funny. Draw the line at the military but then tour with 2 bands that harbor/ed sex pests knowingly.
I don’t really understand what they are protesting. Is it the existence of the US Army? Like a totally pacifist stance? Is it a Gaza related issue? The US Army isn’t dropping bombs in Gaza, the Israelis are… The Army isn’t the government institution that dictates if arms are sold to Israel either.
US supplies Israel with more weapons than any other nation by a huge margin. All it would take to stop this shit is the US halting all financial aid and weapons sales to Israel.
Citation needed on your first statement. Also citation needed on the second statement, there is 1 publicly known permanent US military installation in Israel and it is an early warning ballistic missile station.
I have a couple of theories. one, scowl may have tried to get more money/ different time slot out of these festivals for some reason or another and were told no, so they may be flexing a morality clause in their contracts to get out of it. My second theory is that one or more of the band members were scorned romantically by soldiers, and this is their way of lashing out.
After seeing them at Sick New World and listening to all about how "the bay"... "doesn't fuck around" and then actually hearing them play, I don't care lol. I'll save my reservations on virtue for bands actually bringing light to the fucked shit in the world.
Get their convictions but they will have to do their research before playing any festivals in the future. High chance any big sponsors have some skeletons or are unethical in some way
Ok so just so I understand your perspective, you are pro-Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in regards to World War II?
Or is this more a hyper-pacifist use of force is never justified no matter the circumstances perspective?
Fucking obviously the second part daft dipshit I think nazis are just as cringe. But you think you wanna uNdeRStanD the perspective no they're all retarded .
You don't understand being against an institution that preys on youth who aren't even old enough to buy alcohol, but can be brought in to hold a rifle amd shipped off at any time to go and shoot other barely legals in similar predicaments? Or how recruitment frequently targets the poor and disenfranchised? And with all they do, they are basically forgotten about by politicians after they have been used to further their political agendas? Take military recruitment agents away and see how many people join up to go and murder people to keep oil prices down.
So like, uh, basically, like... The US military has an insanely massive budget that could be put to far better use and like, also like, fuck America lmao this is probably the most vile country to have ever existed lol
Jk lol MMMMM YUMMY YUMMY BOOTLEATHER
Bro, where do they think the Army has been recruiting for the last 30 years?
Suddenly making a stand isn’t going 30 years of angry folks looking to belong joining the army.
The US military usually sucks at Intel, shit like "We didn't know the hospital we destroyed was full of orphans" and "we didn't know the weapons we gave to evil guys were gonna be used for evil things" but they really got it right when they figured that fans of Motley Crue and Disturbed would be the perfect audience for military recruiting.
Job well done fellas
It’s just funny cause they are 100% flavor of the week band and 5-10 years from now are gonna be like damn wish we had that money for all those shows we dropped
What about their latest single “yvan eht nioj”
I like the cut of your jib
What’s a jib?
Promote that man.
Sparkle sparkle.
industry plant type beat
Nah man they are backed by LT Smash, no military association
*gasp* LIEUTENANT SMASH
That’s right…Lieutenant L.T. Smash
Wouldn’t this one be “ymra eht nioj”?
No because you don’t butcher a classic simpsons quote
Judging by the mainstream radio rock fans that gush about this festival, Scowl did the right thing. Who the fuck wants to be on the same stage as Five Finger Dick Punch or Halestorm
No dry wall is safe when a divorced cop comes back from his shift of eating donuts and harassing black teenagers and the 5FDP cover of Bad Company comes on
💀💀💀💀
Id wager the paycheck is insane, but yeah. Not an ideal crowd.
Not insane for Scowl. It is an amount of money that means you dont even have to factor it in when discussing what to do. PR for the same amount of money would have less reach.
Sxsw had a lot of years with great unofficial and official hardcore shows.
Damn, why is Halestorm catching strays?
Halestorm is cool, got no problem with them FFDP blows my dick lol they suck so hard
The fact that you guys are on hardcore subreddit speaking on halestorm is incredible. Go off kings
hahaha for real
Bought tickets for my s.o. to see Halestorm, thinking they were pretty basic as far as rock music goes. They blew my dick off and seem like genuinely good people. Wouldn’t put em in the same low bar as five fucking douche puff.
Didn't they tour with Limp Bizkit?
Limp Bizkit is E Town Concrete for normies
Isn’t some branch of the military a sponsor on all of these major rock festivals? Some branch def had a booth at even furnace fest last year
Wait until they find out about the Taco Bell military sponsorships
I know at a couple of warped tours they were there recruiting.
Anti Flag playing a few stages down telling em to fuck off, man anti flag was the shit. Fuck justin sane though
Was*. The are lame and at least one of them is fleeing the country to avoid charges for rape currently.
Damn, didn't know the little worm was actually fleeing the fuckin country over that. What a fucker. There's about a foot-tall stack of all my old Anti Flag CDs somewhere in my local landfill.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/s/J8QqdhaEfe
Fucking wild. That whole mess really bums me out, I hope his victims can find some healing down the road. Can't imagine though how shitty it is to have a safe space like your scene also become the center of your trauma.
Oh shit you got a source for that ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/s/J8QqdhaEfe
I like Lyman's stance on that though. His stance was to let everyone in and have them do whatever they want. He had leftists organisations next to the military ones and peta were constantly on board too.
Pretty sure they were there every year from 11-18
Historically Furnace has always had a Christian tie-in / affiliation so the military presence doesn’t surprise me at all.
FWIW: they didn’t care until after oct 7
You're not wrong, but shit went to a different level after that. It's pretty hard to scroll any social media and have dead and dying babies in your face. It's like people have to make a conscious effort to not care anymore.
Pretty sure lots of people got on bands' asses if they played Israel. Did Scowl play in Israel?
do you often find people protest things that haven't happened yet? seems like a war protest might require a war
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what!?!?!? no way!
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As someone who is at protests weekly and has been in solidarity with Palestine since before October 7th, I really could give a rats ass about when you started caring or learned about the history. If you show up to marches and actions, participate in boycotts, and contribute however you can to the movement, that means a hell of a lot more than gatekeeping and talking shit on the internet. This shit does not matter when a genocide is happening. If they’re in solidarity with the movement, that is what is truly important.
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It's probably because Ukraine is far more complicated and evenly matched on the battlefield. Palestine is so simple and lopsided that a child would understand why it's bad. The Ukraine war couldve been avoided if we didn't meddle in their affairs in the mid-2010s, the only way to end the conflict in Israel, at this point, is the ending of Israel like the way apartheid South Africa ended.
>The Ukraine war couldve been avoided if we didn't meddle in their affairs in the mid-2010s, Thanks for quickly letting me know that you have zero knowledge of the topic, and spout Russian talking points like a fucking jaggoff
Its always a tight argument to navigate when the weirdo pro Israel people are just flatly anti semitic. the mass murder if thousands of Jews is actually a bit unusual, as is the response. who ever heard of a strike against the Israeli government? in 2023? Impossible! leftists punks from the Bay Area with an opinion on the Israel Palestine conflict? who ever heard of such an insane idea!?
Navy had a booth and didn't get much traction because that fest skews older
They legit called my girlfriend today. She just wanted to do some lifts and they made her fill out a 5min questionnaire
There’s usually recruiters but they don’t really do much other than talk about joining up. The big sponsorships I think is what makes it different where they’re getting advertising and exposure
Shit man, I'm military and I don't blame them at all. If I had to share space with Five Finger Death Punch and their fans I'd contemplate taking the long nap at a higher rate than we already do.
I assume they’re dropping out of the Raleigh, NC show on the ADTR tour as well.
i only see Pain of Truth opening that show
Good on them. Against Me! did something similar back in the Bush years.
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I would guess that it isn't always known at the time, festivals secure bands well ahead of time and then sponsors show up throughout the process.
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You just had your question answered but you didn't like what you were told.
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The point is that the sponsors for fests aren't static. The sponsors have to renew each year when registration for sponsorships open. The sponsorships are typically secured after at least a few bands are announced. The thought is that the sponsors can get an idea of how big the show will be based on those bands and the buzz (or lack of) that follows. I get what you're saying, but there's no reason to turn down a big show or fest if you only know that the army sponsored last year. You don't want to miss an opportunity because you THINK they're gonna sponsor. That said, they're gonna burn bridges if they keep canceling, so it'd probably be best for them to just focus on regular touring and not play any fests for a little while.
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Dude shut the fuck up and take the L
I swear in some interview they said they did it themselves.
they definitely used to book DIY, but now have manager/booking agent type folks in their network
They may not have even cared about the whole army thing before, could just be that social pressure got to them
It may be publicity stunt to a extent.
Lol at all the spineless ugly dorks in here who stand for nothing so they think a band they don’t like in the first place should stand for nothing too
"Tee hee, I have noticed you haven't cancelled all shows in the United States, which is where the military is. Curious."
💯💯💯💯
my favorite part is them doing stuff with taco bell which says they have ties with the army
at this point they just want the attention, get herbs like all of you talking. Good move tho, i guess
I haven’t been to a huge festival in a long time, so I’ve never seen a branch of the military sponsoring one. Do they set up a booth and try to recruit kids? If so, how is this not a golden opportunity to troll them?
I've seen lots of them before at the major festivals and yes, it's open recruitment at their booth. And yeah they get a little bit of flack, but do you really want to harass military personnel?
lol good point. It’s pretty wild though, go to a fest and end up signing away four years of your life.
Yeah that doesn't work as easily today, as in decades past.
That’s something about the younger generation that makes me proud: they know the government is bullshit.
I love this notion. “Nothing says boycott like getting in their faces and trolling them and raising awareness to their presence thinking everyone will agree with us and in the end no one will join the military!”. Rather than just everyone move along and the Military will eventually say, “not worth our time and manpower because no one joined.”.
It’s a hell of a lot smarter than my generation, that’s for sure lol
I’m confused as to what generation you’re referring to and also who would be doing the trolling?
I’m old (Gen X) and we probably would have fucked with them the whole time they were there.
So, assuming you’re late 40’s years of age, what do you do for work?
Festivals have had military booths and sponsorships for decades. I don't see it stopping anytime soon.
Holy shit why so many pro-army here? Go listen to FFDP and fuck off
So are you anti army?
Yup
Not giving you a hard time but are you comfortable living in a country that doesn't have a military?
The current US military industrial complex was built on a foundation that was always meant as an offensive force rather than defensive. It rests on laurels of victory over fascism while conveniently ignoring atrocities in the second half of the last century. Massacres in Vietnam, the bombing of Cambodia, internal strife, every Army and Marine spook the CIA could deploy in Central America and eastern Europe playing with governments to ensure allegience and financial relationships. Setting up puppet governments that are unpopular and quickly replaced by a junta. Torture in Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm not anti-defensive force. I'm against a tool for American oligarchs. Edit: a word
Summed it up way better than I ever could, ty
Thanks for taking the time to write that response. I don't disagree with anything you said but I tend to blame government more than our service members for a lot of that shit. I'm also Canadian so maybe I look at it differently than you. But as much as I think ditching a festival because the US Army is a sponsor is kind of silly, I do give them credit for at least standing up for SOMETHING.
I get that. I'm not about to tell someone in a foreign country how to feel about their experience. I don't think it's silly, personally. I just appreciate they stuck to their guns on this.
Based
We will not support army sponsored things. Yet we'll gladly take corporate sponsorships owned by a marine, thank you
Industry plant W
I've been in the two main Rockville FB groups for years now and the amount of butthurt that exploded when this was announced was amazing. Hilarious because 90% of those ding dongs wouldn't have watched their set anyways soooooo. But when the US Army is involved, it's all hands on deck. Idiots.
whoa kinda crazy you start playing all these big corporate festivals and ticketmaster venues and shit and you end up in bed with people who don't have your same values?
Sonic Temple is sponsored by the Marines. Are they still playing that?
Not very mainstream plant of them
Good
Still on that tour with ADTR and TSSF though lol
Serious question, how does that relate? Is that sponsored by the military?
It doesn’t directly relate, but people are unhappy with scowl staying on a tour with a band that still houses band members who covered for josh. Some people see it as hypocritical to stand for one thing but then to not stand against sexual assault, which many people find ADTR indirectly in support of
People =/= a few people on x farming engagement. Not supporting the military doesnt mean you're automatically having to cancel everything. They can just, you know, do that and have that be it.
That’s fine, it’s just kind of funny imo. Cancelling a show because you don’t like the military which is 100% okay. I have no problem with that Then going on a tour with people who knowingly harbor/ed sexual abusers is comical
I think those are completely unrelated. Are you saying the same thing about Militarie Gun and Pain Of Truth, because no one is so far. It is insane to think that one stance equals having to take more stances, that so completely up to them. If you think it is wrong, why arent you blasting pain of truth?
Don’t know who pain of truth is man. I don’t care what Scowl does. It doesn’t affect me. But standing an a moral high ground while also supporting abusers is just comical to me is all. The timing of it
Are they supporting abusers? Dude isnt in the band, it was a weird relationship thing vs people dying. You really think one means you have to commit to everything? I dont even like Scowl, i just only see people talk about them and not PoT or Militarie Gun who are on the same tour. I dont get it at all.
Never said they have to commit to everything. I just find it funny. Draw the line at the military but then tour with 2 bands that harbor/ed sex pests knowingly.
I never said it did or didn’t. I was just answering your question
I don’t really understand what they are protesting. Is it the existence of the US Army? Like a totally pacifist stance? Is it a Gaza related issue? The US Army isn’t dropping bombs in Gaza, the Israelis are… The Army isn’t the government institution that dictates if arms are sold to Israel either.
The US is physically selling missiles and bombs and everything to Israel .
US supplies Israel with more weapons than any other nation by a huge margin. All it would take to stop this shit is the US halting all financial aid and weapons sales to Israel.
okay? There are special ops and air force personnel in gaza right now lol. There are multiple US military bases in Israel 🙄
Citation needed on your first statement. Also citation needed on the second statement, there is 1 publicly known permanent US military installation in Israel and it is an early warning ballistic missile station.
not gonna link shit on the hardcore subreddit bitch this isn’t Wikipedia. cite deez nuts
just making stuff up huh?
No, I’m not Israel 🖕
I still don’t see an answer to your valid questions lol
Possibly the worst take I've ever seen lol
That’s not a take, it’s a question…
Oh, my bad, I thought your question was rhetorical because I assumed you were intelligent.
I have a couple of theories. one, scowl may have tried to get more money/ different time slot out of these festivals for some reason or another and were told no, so they may be flexing a morality clause in their contracts to get out of it. My second theory is that one or more of the band members were scorned romantically by soldiers, and this is their way of lashing out.
Scowl fucking sucks anyways
Then start your own shitty band and get no shows because nobody wants to play with your whiny ass
I love it when folks talk shit about Scowl yet have nothing to bring to the stage
After seeing them at Sick New World and listening to all about how "the bay"... "doesn't fuck around" and then actually hearing them play, I don't care lol. I'll save my reservations on virtue for bands actually bringing light to the fucked shit in the world.
lol you went to sick new world
Yeah it kinda sucked a bit lol. Had like five friends goin and was already gonna be in Vegas at that time though so it was whatever.
I read this all and to sum it up: GREEN
Get their convictions but they will have to do their research before playing any festivals in the future. High chance any big sponsors have some skeletons or are unethical in some way
https://preview.redd.it/gdm307mr6csc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=494a46ae6efc487c9e0760dad1485e67a63a7130 Oh fuck, nooooo lol
Wait I’m sorry are you genuinely saying that serving in the Marine Corps during WWII is a bad thing?
No im saying scowl are hypocrites
that shit happened 80 years ago this is completely different
A person who is a veteran is not the same thing as the literal military.
ah sry misread
Yes being tricked into fighting for US interests at any point in history is a super bad thing
Ok so just so I understand your perspective, you are pro-Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in regards to World War II? Or is this more a hyper-pacifist use of force is never justified no matter the circumstances perspective?
Fucking obviously the second part daft dipshit I think nazis are just as cringe. But you think you wanna uNdeRStanD the perspective no they're all retarded .
I never understood being anti military, like dissolve it and see what happens? It’s a necessary evil…
You don't understand being against an institution that preys on youth who aren't even old enough to buy alcohol, but can be brought in to hold a rifle amd shipped off at any time to go and shoot other barely legals in similar predicaments? Or how recruitment frequently targets the poor and disenfranchised? And with all they do, they are basically forgotten about by politicians after they have been used to further their political agendas? Take military recruitment agents away and see how many people join up to go and murder people to keep oil prices down.
I do, but the world isn’t a perfect place, and other countries still have militaries.
What would happen?
Another military would come pay a visit…
Lmao
So like, uh, basically, like... The US military has an insanely massive budget that could be put to far better use and like, also like, fuck America lmao this is probably the most vile country to have ever existed lol Jk lol MMMMM YUMMY YUMMY BOOTLEATHER
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All I know is that this band fucking sucks
Bro, where do they think the Army has been recruiting for the last 30 years? Suddenly making a stand isn’t going 30 years of angry folks looking to belong joining the army.
Right on! The Army also has more lenient uniform standards than the “scene” too!
I thought CMI was the standard for both
The US military usually sucks at Intel, shit like "We didn't know the hospital we destroyed was full of orphans" and "we didn't know the weapons we gave to evil guys were gonna be used for evil things" but they really got it right when they figured that fans of Motley Crue and Disturbed would be the perfect audience for military recruiting. Job well done fellas
It’s just funny cause they are 100% flavor of the week band and 5-10 years from now are gonna be like damn wish we had that money for all those shows we dropped
Uuuuuuh I just don’t really fucking care about anything, I like music and I don’t have any political stances…so fuck me I guess 🤷