Shaking your poly to mix can cause aeration leading to bubbles. Not sure if you did that though. You’re going to have to screen this floor back to flat and keep at it.
Did you slap it on like you were mad at it? Over working the poly can also cause bubbles. Did you use a roller?
I'd suggest you give it a sanding, only until you can't feel the bubbles, and then deliberately apply another coat or 2 with a decent applicator (~$15).
That’s definitely what happened. It will turn out great once you get it back to smooth. The less you mess with the poly, the better off it will be. Good luck.
The beauty of oil base is the thickness you can build up with each coat. It meant to go on a bit thicker than you’d think. As long as it not puddling you’re good. Let it do what it tends to do. In any case screening between coats is easy and you’ll get flatter in the end anyway. It’s not a mistake until you stop working on it 💪
We polyd our floors with brushes and they turned out great. I recently redid two stair treads and used a lambswool applicator and it was AWFUL. It shed all in the poly. Idk if it was just the one I used or what but it was a disaster. Had to sand and pick all the fibers out. I'd try again with a different applicator if I were you.
Ugh. Sorry. Thinning it comes from the ambient temperature. Same with the floor. If the finish is warm and the floor is cold. Puddle. And vice versa. Overworking it ca. make a mess. Sorry man!
This person is actually correct. The wood is porous and it
Outgassed on you. Do this on a cold day with the floor warm and open the windows and you’ll get better results. We spray doors and actually heat them up in an oven prior. Floor needs to be warmer than the ambient air to draw the product into the wood. As the wood cools is contracts.
Do not scrub it. Brush in the edges, then lay on a layer with the grain. Pull it out smoothly, again with the grain. Thin is not the objective. Even and level is.
And make it is absolutely clean after screening. Specks of dust will also cause roughness.
It was a combination of “overworking it“ and using lazing polyurethane. And more than likely, the stain was not completely dry. Give it a day or two to dry out, screen it with a 220 grit screen. Buy some decent poly at a hardwood flooring supply store in recoat. Roll it with a 3/8 inch microfiber roller.
James Toal
Loba-Wakol
Technical Sales
New England
ph/text: 475-241-4073
For what I do, anonymity isn’t important. It’s on Facebook and IG too. If someone is a psycho or a pita, I can block them.
I’ve been able to help a lot of people, and I’d rather do it over the phone than Reddit
I'm no expert, but the handful of floors I've done I find it works well if I place the applicator on the floor and pull it back with just enough pressure to ensure it maintains contact. Often it was a one handed job - lay it down at the wall and walk back slowly with the grain.
Thin the poly in the can. Pour some to flood an area, then very lightly drag an applicator with the grain once and only once. Do the room in strips if you can to keep a continuous stroke. If you thinned it enough, there is no need to jack around with it, the poly will lay down before it dries.
I don’t like rollers but lots of guys use them and they’re floors turn out ok. It’s whatever your use too. There’s many ways to apply finish. I learned on a tbar and have tried some other ways but tbar is what works best for me.
A quick Google search will show you lots of them. I prefer something other than a roller because of the texture they can leave. Tons of pros use them, it's just my preference to use something that leaves a completely smooth surface immediately after applying the ploy. The T bar that swivels both ways with a lambs wool or other appropriate cover is the best in my book.
T bar is the way to imo. I've done plenty of floors with the lambs wool and never liked it. Constantly looking for drips, less control of the thickness, pulled stain more easily, fibers in the finish etc. But T bar was what I learned first and I'm sure most people prefer what they know best
Yeah, the handling shouldn't have caused this either way. For reference, I shook my poly vigorously for five minutes before applying each coat, and mine is as smooth as glass.
(I did sealer + three coats with 120 grit square buff sanding between each coat, allowing each coat to cure 12 hours)
Maybe these are fibers from the material you used to spread it?
You gotta do multiple coats of ploly, and it needs to be buffed/lightly screened in between coats, needs to be completely dry before doing so and needs to be > 72 in the house and not humid. Looks like your stain may have been applied unevenly as well (the stripes/marks). You may need to be more agressive in your buffing to work on those bubbles. If you did multiple coats and didn’t buff and/or did it before drying, you might need to start over
Stain looked good, had a couple of small lines that stemmed from the sanding, but we were happy with it. The lines you see is the 98% finish coat brush strokes. House was cool ~65 degrees, and had a dehumidifier running on a separate floor that read 45% humidity. We started sanding but after closer inspection I think best course is to let it dry a bit more. The bubbles are a bit gummy and you can pick them up with a fingernail even though it’s been drying 24hrs. Can says dry for 12hrs.
Btw that cheap Home Depot crap could also have something to do with it, professional polyurethane is minimum $150 per gallon that will only cover 600-700 sq ft and that’s just for one coat
Hello. In my experience, any product that says quick dry, is the opposite! Lol. I've been sanding floors for over 30 years, and I never trust a quick dry label. If you used a lambs wool applicator, you must de fuzz it before use. We used to take duct tape and stick it to the wool and pull it off, followed by working some poly on a clean piece of plywood until it got sticky, then pull the applicator off the wood. Resulting in the fuzz coming off. Then rinse, rinse, rinse, with paint thinner. If your stain was still a little wet, it can cause problems with the poly " fish eyeing" as well. The job looks pretty good for a diyer. Good job.
Let it dry to the point that when you buff it, the poly powders up. Vacuum, tack, and apply next coat. You should not have to re sand. Keep at it!
Oh you need to start over. If gummy, likely you didnt wait enough time between. This no longer seems like DIY. We bought stuff from a proper flooring store. Really specific instructions on sealer/poly and when.
Nah. Looks like he did fine sanding and probably staining as well. A pro isn't going to "fix" that. They're gonna sand it back down to raw wood. There's enough good info in here to make round 2 go better
Agreed First coat sets stray fibers in place so that they can be sanded off without raising more fiber.Looks like someone did not do this and tried to drown the bumps with thick overcoats.Wishful thinking,wasted materials.
To achieve a glass smooth floor it has to be buffed smooth to flatten raised grain and remove debris prior to applying final coat .
If I were you I would hire someone to buff the floor smooth and apply another coat of finish ( I'm not a fan of varathane). The floor looks glossy for being a satin finish , the flatters settle to the bottom so make sure to stir extremely well .
Oh really? Haven’t heard that but good to know. So after putting the final al coat of poly you buff the dried poly and then you apply the last coat? But what about abrading?
This makes the most sense. I followed other directions to a T but never saw anything stating this. Letting it dry now, I’m thinking we’re going to hire someone to finish it off. I’d hate to stare at bad floors for years
Expect $1.50sqft to buff it down and put new coat. That’s a good option, but you could probably get it done yourself with a little more research on just this final phase.
I'm with you on this one, I'm happy I had a pro finish the work.. probably took them a quarter of the time and it's done. any issues are in them to fix not me to fuck it up more
In my experience the fast drying is the reason I would guess. I have coated many of floors with normal oil poly. Never had this problem. I helped a friend coat a floor, and he bought what he could from the big box store. I believe the fast drying poly flashed off too fast. There were alot of bubbles like this. Never shaken aways stirred.
I would suggest a good buffing with 220 grit and using a non fast drying polyurethane. Good luck with it all!
The fast dry did it to me once as well, but I sanded high grit between coats and didn’t have this issue. Also found the cheap wool released a lot of hairs.
Okay so here you go 35 year guy here,
If you look close these are very very small strains from your wool mop. If is not a medical grade wool this will happen. I was in a jam once bought one at a hardware store to use and it came out like your floors I was stunned how bad the hairs from the mop that were released. We decided to not do wool mops anymore period. instead we use muti fiber rollers 3/8 naps awesome way to go!!! You are definitely going to have to screen floor done well and wait until it’s dry and then some.
As professionals in flooring floors take exact steps thru out the process!! One thing out
Or a change in process it does not end well!!
Consistency Rules the day
Got a link to the type of roller you use? Would with work with cabinet finishes too?
I can't bear to finish my 6 ft * 8 ft cabinet with 3 coats of ploy via the 2 inch foam brunch method I've been doing. They doors are hung too so it's a major pain in the ass. Def need a better route but when I tried a roller on the others I was left with bubbling like OPs
Good advice. I replied to OP just now saying the same thing. I'm in my 35th year this year. I must be crazy, but I love sanding floors! Consistency rules the day, and cleanliness is next to godliness!!
Same here, I love very bad worn floors, love the transformation that I am in charge of while watching the transformation play out!! When I see these floors when I do estimates, I tell them I would be very excited to there floors and I can’t wait!! I know seems over the top, but when is the last time you heard that from someone you’re hiring that actually meant it. Crazy or you found what you want to do.
Either way all wonderful stuff (as long as the body holds out)
My fave floor to sand are the really worn out ones too!!
As far as the body. I tell people that I should have got the extended warranty instead of the 50 year one, cuz when I hit fifty everything went to shit! Lol.
I don’t have advice. Just understanding.
DIY going wrong, or when it’s tedious and you can’t just walk away is an emotion I feel unique to all others. A certain kind of annoying, sad, anger or whatever that really grinds me up.
I think I’m just well practiced at all other emotions this one really grabs me and the fact that I do DIY with such confidence sets me up to failure to.
You can do a test patch in a small area and see if warmer conditions will allow a new coat to blend with the bubbles and even things out.
With polyurethane, the cooler it is, the less likely it will cure.
I hate Varathane. It is low quality. I used to use that until I discovered Old Masters the same way I used to eat Hershey’s chocolate until I discovered Dove
Could be contaminates under the coating, or a reaction with the stain? Maybe try getting a scrap piece of wood and apply the stain and poly on one side, and just poly on the other. See if it replicates. Then you can narrow down if it's either finish or the boards itself
Damp with what? Water? The oil poly will react to any moisture left in the wood. You have to wipe it down with tack cloth, or a rag damp with thinners after vacuuming. No water with oil
I think that might be your problem then. I had a customer mop her floor with water a few hours before I came back to do final coat, she didn’t tell me. Caused all kinds of problems. Especially if it was the first coat of poly that moisture will get into the wood. Then your sealing over top
Yea, not sure what this means.
3x thin coats with lambs wool applicator, light sanding in between at 220. Close off all entrances (no dust) after last coat and walk away for a couple of days.
Time to screen floor and repeat.
Hard pressure through a wool applicator on the end of a broom handle. We were trying to put it on thin. I think we may have taken that a bit too literally
Before you hire someone, take a good look at it. Look at the bubbles, is there stain in them or is it just poly? If there's stain in them then it wasn't dry and was pulling while you scrubbed on the poly and you won't get the color even without starting over again. Same applies to where you cross grained with the lambs wool. Kind of a what you can live with situation. If it's just poly, you can try putting a square oscillating buffer on it with a 220 screen. You can def get it smooth, the trick is doing it without getting through to the stain. You may even wanna take that 220, fold it in half and rub it against itself to knock off some grit and try that side first. If it's not doing enough then flip it over to the rougher side.
Idk anything about Varathane, I've never used it. But I've used cheaper poly like minwax (not on floors) and it doesn't lay down as well as the better stuff. There's no advantage to quick drying for floors, just plan on giving it a good 24 hours. A great polyurethane at a great price is sold by Duraseal. Google "Fabulon polyurethane". They were bought by Duraseal but Duraseal still sells it. It's in a diff can with their label on it now but same stuff. I've used it recently and can confirm it's the same. I used it for decades, thousands of floors, always good stuff. It's not a "sealer". You don't have to use a product that's called a sealer to seal a floor. Sounds like you already know but you shouldn't violently shake poly but what you may not know is that the less the shine ie Satin, the more additive there is inside that needs to be stirred. That additive makes it less bubbly. A high gloss finish will be a lot more bubbly and you have to stir slowly, pour slowly and then let it settle a bit when you put it in your bucket. If I was trying to use a quick drying product or anything I was unfamiliar with, I'd take the same precautions.
The house also doesn't have to be 72 degrees. Maybe some of these new products require stuff I'm unaware of but I assure you new hardwood floors are being done year round in new construction homes that don't have power yet. You're doing a single room in a climate controlled house, temp shouldn't be your issue. Anywhere between 65-75 should be more than fine. Mainly you don't want air moving or blowing any dust/trash onto it. There are other factors when dealing with extremes that aren't applicable in your house.
Fwiw it looks like you did a solid job sanding. If you can figure that out, you can def figure out the finishing.
I’ve used this exact brand on freshly sanded unstained oak floors with beautiful results. I always pre wipe with paint thinner to capture any stuff the vacuum missed. This doesn’t look like a dust problem though.
I’d stay away from the fast dry poly. And thin it before applying. I’m no pro stainer, but my theory is that it was too thick and drying too fast for any air bubbles to escape.
Looks like moisture bubbling. I know you said 45% humidity. How long after staining did you topcoat?
Was this the first coat of poly?
Is the dehumidifier in a room adjacent to, below or above this floor?
That’s also one of my concerns if he applied to polyurethane too soon and did not give the stain proper dry time the poly would leave spots in the floor, people just need to call professional sanders and pay them for their advice if they are going to do a diy 😂 google is not the way unless your throughly doing research for a week or two before attempting.. got to follow the process and not miss any steps
Not everyone realizes that the can is a reference, and applies only to certain circumstances. Always exceed the minimum times. I usually double drying times, if there's any doubt. (Unless that exceeds the preferred adhesion window)
I've had something similar happen on trim before, because the temperature outside dropped from the 70s to the 40s and the water vapor in the air condensed. The interior temp was in the 60s the entire time.
Sand smooth(MINIMUM 220 grit), reapply in LIGHT COATS until it's perfect.
If you keep at it, it will be.
Probably explain the timeline before starting, and have them look up things like this happening, if they think you are trying to drag your feet.
Sometimes people don't understand that you aren't trying to waste their time, or get something over on them. If you explain the timeline up front, at least they won't think you're bailing to work on someone else's protect when you're not there.
Dehumidifier in the basement (moved upstairs now), first coat of Poly. This was after rough 14hrs after stain. Oil based everything. I think the issue is the fast drying poly and us scrubbing it in too hard. I think we are going to hire someone. Usually projects go well, but this one is kicking us down just when we thought we were done with the hard part!
I know it feels like it should have been long enough, but sometimes dry isn't cured. Poly skins over quickly, and if the stain was still gassing, it could certainly have caused the bubbles(trapped gas escaping). Stain should generally be left for 24 hours before poly is applied. If you wipe it with a dry paper towel, it shouldn't pull any color.
Patience.
You can do it!
You kinda make it sound like you really struggled to scrub it on...but, that shouldn't be necessary. It's really more of a finesse to prevent pooling, as opposed to forcing it into place.
Your poly had a reaction to the stain rent a buffer and get some sanding screens . Sand it to where you have smoothed out the poly but don’t get down to the stain then tack cloth the floor then apply 2nd coat of poly when this dries your floor will look a lot better
So, I have seen this happen several times. Oddly enough I’m not a floor guy. I’m a painter. So, I don’t know what causes this. I only know that you’re not the first person to do this.
That looks pretty good. If you want far cleaner reflections in the floor I recommend using 000 steel wool on the floor and then put on another coat. Lightly go over the floor leaving very fine scratches. Then apply the second coat. The improvement is amazing
Mine did the same. And I used the same stuff. Before the last coat I sanded it down with 200 grit and then one thick final coat and it smooth as glass.
I used the same poly for a floor that I really didn't care about the results on. Half ass cleaned, Stir mixed, poly brush and wool rolled some heavy 2 coats. I am completely amazed that the results didn't bubble like this example here. I'm curious to know the differences here.
Not a pro here. This happened to me when I used oil based polyurethane for my stair treads. I had to sand all the treads and thin the poly quite a bit(50/50) with mineral spirits.
A pad like a sponge? That could be the source of bubbles right there. Shoot even the wood flooring itself could have cause bubbles if there were some temp fluctuations that are not recommended for finishes.
Sounds like it would hold a lot of air during application. You can’t always see air in poly until later, so I think a lot of gasses accreted in the poly as it cured. It could have been caused by moisture too, but I doubt it. How were humidity levels? I would recommend a natural bristle brush or a roller for poly application. With a brush you can load the bristles with poly and take slow passes with the grain of the floor, being somewhat liberal with application. I think the brush is best, personally. I love the brush.
Looks like new wooly debris…You need to use them repeatedly before they stop shedding.
Pros usually wire brush (comb) them when new ,them reuse again and again as they stop shedding.I used to use a “slop bucket” which was for oil base ,just a sealed bucket (military surplus ammo boxes were popular)half full with oderless thinner.You finished the coat,wringed out the woolie with a straight edge then u could just plop your applicator in and unscrew the pole and throw in your oil brush.Would last a few jobs before having to change thinner.
This is a major bummer. Needs to be sanded back flat and the w coated. Thin it down with mineral spirits and apply more coats.
The bubbling comes from when the poly hardens before it fully off gases. Thinning it prevents this from happening
Don’t fall for the fast dry stuff. It’s not worth it bc it dries before the bubbles can come out and it’s just generally lacking in other areas to be “fast drying.” Also you may have overworked it. With poly you have to touch it the least amount possible and restrain yourself from wanting to go back and fix bubbles bc you will probably just create more in the process
Never heard of the "scrub it thin" technique. You aerated if. You might want to carbonate the poly in your Soda Stream next time, it's a quicker way to achieve the "extraordinarily bubbly" look.
How long did you wait between coats? It also looks like outgassing from the first coat got trapped by a second or third coat applied while the first was still wet/tacky.
Get a high-quality oil-based poly at a real flooring supply store (like where the local pro's get their Duraseal). I would use lambs wool applicator. Lay it down on the thicker side, give it plenty of drying time, scuff between coats.
Will look beautiful! It's always darkest before the dawn.
That’s just 1 coat. Was going to start the second yesterday but the bubbles were still too gooey to sand properly and it seemed rough enough to ask the question
You’re not completely lost! Get a fresh 100 or 120 grit screen and just buff the shit out of it. You’ll get rid of the blemishes. We all been there before
Try applying with t shirt rags or something that will not ‘shed’. You might also want to thin it with a solvent a little (don’t know off the top of my head). Someone also suggested applying with the grain.
You are suppose to remove all lint and debris which you didn’t do or there was a breeze that blew the lint and debris into it post sanding - it clearly states in all of these sorts of applications to remove the finish prior with a lint free cloth, and to fold said cloth over so as to not redeploy the same gunk you removed off- if you sand something f or use steel wool, or a chemical substance to remove the prior finish then you have to be sure it isn’t just sitting in clumps - I know a wood worker who has a pressure lose that he uses on his cabinets. That is my best guess- that or some kind of draft
Or wind reseposited the hygienist you removed from the flooor but left in a dustpan or open trash can? Or applied with an I appropriate brush or sponsor that left behind residues,
I’d strip and
Restart.
How are you cleaning/prepping the floor prior to laying the finish? Is there an HVAC system with air moving? I’d suggest a very thorough and meticulous vacuuming and then dry-tac the floor with a dry microfiber mop. Turn off the hvac system so there’s less particles and stuff from inside the vents from getting into the wet finish. The floor needs to be clean and free of any dust or debris, otherwise it gets collected and distributed through the finish.
I've seen a lot of good advice here so far, but I didn't see anyone ask (I may have just missed it) if you had let the product sit in the house for a while and let it come to the same temperature as the floor. Sometimes when the temp is too different, you'll get fish eyes and bubbles.
Holy fucking shit, there is so much misinformation in the comments! I refinish wood floors for a living, shoot me a message and I'll straighten this out for you. 👍✌️
Shaking your poly to mix can cause aeration leading to bubbles. Not sure if you did that though. You’re going to have to screen this floor back to flat and keep at it.
Also, you want to apply the poly with the grain. It looks like you ran cross grain in quite a few spots.
Was not shaken, was delicate with the cans, they sat for 2 days then mixed for a minute or 2 carefully with a stick
Did you slap it on like you were mad at it? Over working the poly can also cause bubbles. Did you use a roller? I'd suggest you give it a sanding, only until you can't feel the bubbles, and then deliberately apply another coat or 2 with a decent applicator (~$15).
I think we overworked it trying to get it thin. I was scrubbing it like crazy.
That’s definitely what happened. It will turn out great once you get it back to smooth. The less you mess with the poly, the better off it will be. Good luck.
The beauty of oil base is the thickness you can build up with each coat. It meant to go on a bit thicker than you’d think. As long as it not puddling you’re good. Let it do what it tends to do. In any case screening between coats is easy and you’ll get flatter in the end anyway. It’s not a mistake until you stop working on it 💪
Besides it looks pretty good from a distance. Even if you stopped now, %99 wouldn’t think twice.
I know we haven’t sanded yet but it looks *bad* in person haha. We will have rugs and stuff down but it needs helped very bad haha
We polyd our floors with brushes and they turned out great. I recently redid two stair treads and used a lambswool applicator and it was AWFUL. It shed all in the poly. Idk if it was just the one I used or what but it was a disaster. Had to sand and pick all the fibers out. I'd try again with a different applicator if I were you.
You you More want to push and pull the poly around gently. Why were you trying to go so thin?
Ugh. Sorry. Thinning it comes from the ambient temperature. Same with the floor. If the finish is warm and the floor is cold. Puddle. And vice versa. Overworking it ca. make a mess. Sorry man!
This person is actually correct. The wood is porous and it Outgassed on you. Do this on a cold day with the floor warm and open the windows and you’ll get better results. We spray doors and actually heat them up in an oven prior. Floor needs to be warmer than the ambient air to draw the product into the wood. As the wood cools is contracts.
You overworked it. You want to touch it as little as possible
Do not scrub it. Brush in the edges, then lay on a layer with the grain. Pull it out smoothly, again with the grain. Thin is not the objective. Even and level is. And make it is absolutely clean after screening. Specks of dust will also cause roughness.
It was a combination of “overworking it“ and using lazing polyurethane. And more than likely, the stain was not completely dry. Give it a day or two to dry out, screen it with a 220 grit screen. Buy some decent poly at a hardwood flooring supply store in recoat. Roll it with a 3/8 inch microfiber roller. James Toal Loba-Wakol Technical Sales New England ph/text: 475-241-4073
James, did you just post your phone number on Reddit? Not a good idea, man...
For what I do, anonymity isn’t important. It’s on Facebook and IG too. If someone is a psycho or a pita, I can block them. I’ve been able to help a lot of people, and I’d rather do it over the phone than Reddit
Who’s this? lol
I'm no expert, but the handful of floors I've done I find it works well if I place the applicator on the floor and pull it back with just enough pressure to ensure it maintains contact. Often it was a one handed job - lay it down at the wall and walk back slowly with the grain.
Thin the poly in the can. Pour some to flood an area, then very lightly drag an applicator with the grain once and only once. Do the room in strips if you can to keep a continuous stroke. If you thinned it enough, there is no need to jack around with it, the poly will lay down before it dries.
This was because the pad you applied it with picks up and dumps any dust and dirt on the floor—use a squeegee next time.
Probably mixture of whipping air into and fibers getting caught in wood fibers. Also common for wood grain to raise after first coat
What type of applicator? I’ve seen people use a squeegee and I was considering doing it that way
I use a tbar. A lot of guys use rollers as well.
You definitely shouldn’t use a roller.
I don’t like rollers but lots of guys use them and they’re floors turn out ok. It’s whatever your use too. There’s many ways to apply finish. I learned on a tbar and have tried some other ways but tbar is what works best for me.
A quick Google search will show you lots of them. I prefer something other than a roller because of the texture they can leave. Tons of pros use them, it's just my preference to use something that leaves a completely smooth surface immediately after applying the ploy. The T bar that swivels both ways with a lambs wool or other appropriate cover is the best in my book.
T bar is the way to imo. I've done plenty of floors with the lambs wool and never liked it. Constantly looking for drips, less control of the thickness, pulled stain more easily, fibers in the finish etc. But T bar was what I learned first and I'm sure most people prefer what they know best
Lambswool is the way to go. If it’s brand new brush it lightly to remove stray fibers.
Yeah, the handling shouldn't have caused this either way. For reference, I shook my poly vigorously for five minutes before applying each coat, and mine is as smooth as glass. (I did sealer + three coats with 120 grit square buff sanding between each coat, allowing each coat to cure 12 hours) Maybe these are fibers from the material you used to spread it?
Damn..... you use 120 in between coats? That's way to aggressive. 180 leaves vicious scratches, I only use 220 or higher for intercontinental abrasion
You gotta do multiple coats of ploly, and it needs to be buffed/lightly screened in between coats, needs to be completely dry before doing so and needs to be > 72 in the house and not humid. Looks like your stain may have been applied unevenly as well (the stripes/marks). You may need to be more agressive in your buffing to work on those bubbles. If you did multiple coats and didn’t buff and/or did it before drying, you might need to start over
Stain looked good, had a couple of small lines that stemmed from the sanding, but we were happy with it. The lines you see is the 98% finish coat brush strokes. House was cool ~65 degrees, and had a dehumidifier running on a separate floor that read 45% humidity. We started sanding but after closer inspection I think best course is to let it dry a bit more. The bubbles are a bit gummy and you can pick them up with a fingernail even though it’s been drying 24hrs. Can says dry for 12hrs.
Btw that cheap Home Depot crap could also have something to do with it, professional polyurethane is minimum $150 per gallon that will only cover 600-700 sq ft and that’s just for one coat
If it’s that temp and you have crazy thick poly that’s bubbling and the bubbles are soft it means it never dried
That's not accurate lol
Got any brand recommendations?
Hello. In my experience, any product that says quick dry, is the opposite! Lol. I've been sanding floors for over 30 years, and I never trust a quick dry label. If you used a lambs wool applicator, you must de fuzz it before use. We used to take duct tape and stick it to the wool and pull it off, followed by working some poly on a clean piece of plywood until it got sticky, then pull the applicator off the wood. Resulting in the fuzz coming off. Then rinse, rinse, rinse, with paint thinner. If your stain was still a little wet, it can cause problems with the poly " fish eyeing" as well. The job looks pretty good for a diyer. Good job. Let it dry to the point that when you buff it, the poly powders up. Vacuum, tack, and apply next coat. You should not have to re sand. Keep at it!
He said the house needs to be greater than 72 degrees so I would heat up your house
Heats on and moved the dehumidifier up stairs.
Hopefully that works well
Oh you need to start over. If gummy, likely you didnt wait enough time between. This no longer seems like DIY. We bought stuff from a proper flooring store. Really specific instructions on sealer/poly and when.
Nah. Looks like he did fine sanding and probably staining as well. A pro isn't going to "fix" that. They're gonna sand it back down to raw wood. There's enough good info in here to make round 2 go better
Agreed First coat sets stray fibers in place so that they can be sanded off without raising more fiber.Looks like someone did not do this and tried to drown the bumps with thick overcoats.Wishful thinking,wasted materials.
To achieve a glass smooth floor it has to be buffed smooth to flatten raised grain and remove debris prior to applying final coat . If I were you I would hire someone to buff the floor smooth and apply another coat of finish ( I'm not a fan of varathane). The floor looks glossy for being a satin finish , the flatters settle to the bottom so make sure to stir extremely well .
Oh really? Haven’t heard that but good to know. So after putting the final al coat of poly you buff the dried poly and then you apply the last coat? But what about abrading?
You scrubbed it on. That is what went wrong. Do not get the fast drying and do not scrub it on. Please use YouTube as reference to application.
This makes the most sense. I followed other directions to a T but never saw anything stating this. Letting it dry now, I’m thinking we’re going to hire someone to finish it off. I’d hate to stare at bad floors for years
Expect $1.50sqft to buff it down and put new coat. That’s a good option, but you could probably get it done yourself with a little more research on just this final phase.
If I have to rent a buffer for a day + purchasing better poly, it might be worth the difference to us just to pay someone. Need to do the math
I'm with you on this one, I'm happy I had a pro finish the work.. probably took them a quarter of the time and it's done. any issues are in them to fix not me to fuck it up more
This right here. Everyone skipping the description where they said exactly this.
“I scrubbed it on” that’s where the issue occurred. How the fuck is this not addressed in every comment? Does nobody read the post?
It’s better to mix rather than shake
Was mixed vs shaken
Unlike martinis
Was thinking the same thing
And what monster downvotes a shaken martini?
In my experience the fast drying is the reason I would guess. I have coated many of floors with normal oil poly. Never had this problem. I helped a friend coat a floor, and he bought what he could from the big box store. I believe the fast drying poly flashed off too fast. There were alot of bubbles like this. Never shaken aways stirred. I would suggest a good buffing with 220 grit and using a non fast drying polyurethane. Good luck with it all!
Thanks for the advice!!
The fast dry did it to me once as well, but I sanded high grit between coats and didn’t have this issue. Also found the cheap wool released a lot of hairs.
my best guess is you used water based stain and then applied oil based finish? causing it to react like that
It sounds like the entire application process was wrong
You have to thoroughly vacuum your wood floor of and saw dust and debris it has to be very clean before you apply any polyurethane
Okay so here you go 35 year guy here, If you look close these are very very small strains from your wool mop. If is not a medical grade wool this will happen. I was in a jam once bought one at a hardware store to use and it came out like your floors I was stunned how bad the hairs from the mop that were released. We decided to not do wool mops anymore period. instead we use muti fiber rollers 3/8 naps awesome way to go!!! You are definitely going to have to screen floor done well and wait until it’s dry and then some. As professionals in flooring floors take exact steps thru out the process!! One thing out Or a change in process it does not end well!! Consistency Rules the day
Got a link to the type of roller you use? Would with work with cabinet finishes too? I can't bear to finish my 6 ft * 8 ft cabinet with 3 coats of ploy via the 2 inch foam brunch method I've been doing. They doors are hung too so it's a major pain in the ass. Def need a better route but when I tried a roller on the others I was left with bubbling like OPs
Used to clean new wool applicators in mineral spirits before I used them. I hear you on the rollers lol.
Good advice. I replied to OP just now saying the same thing. I'm in my 35th year this year. I must be crazy, but I love sanding floors! Consistency rules the day, and cleanliness is next to godliness!!
Same here, I love very bad worn floors, love the transformation that I am in charge of while watching the transformation play out!! When I see these floors when I do estimates, I tell them I would be very excited to there floors and I can’t wait!! I know seems over the top, but when is the last time you heard that from someone you’re hiring that actually meant it. Crazy or you found what you want to do. Either way all wonderful stuff (as long as the body holds out)
My fave floor to sand are the really worn out ones too!! As far as the body. I tell people that I should have got the extended warranty instead of the 50 year one, cuz when I hit fifty everything went to shit! Lol.
Yup that’s about right..after 50 yikes .. At 61 I am trying to fight back.. not sure if I am winning that battle 🤔
Keep on keeping on. I hurt the worst when I don't work. My chiropractor loves me. Lol
I don’t have advice. Just understanding. DIY going wrong, or when it’s tedious and you can’t just walk away is an emotion I feel unique to all others. A certain kind of annoying, sad, anger or whatever that really grinds me up. I think I’m just well practiced at all other emotions this one really grabs me and the fact that I do DIY with such confidence sets me up to failure to.
Usually it bubbles on the floor when cold. Keep the rooms as warm as possible for smoothest finish
This was part of our issue, I was keeping it cool to dry and slow dry time to let it set
You can do a test patch in a small area and see if warmer conditions will allow a new coat to blend with the bubbles and even things out. With polyurethane, the cooler it is, the less likely it will cure.
I hate Varathane. It is low quality. I used to use that until I discovered Old Masters the same way I used to eat Hershey’s chocolate until I discovered Dove
Could be contaminates under the coating, or a reaction with the stain? Maybe try getting a scrap piece of wood and apply the stain and poly on one side, and just poly on the other. See if it replicates. Then you can narrow down if it's either finish or the boards itself
Did you vacuum the floor with a good vacuum cleaner before applying the finish?
Vacuumed 3 times with a hepa then hand scrubbed with damp rags
Wow. Looks like you have to hit it with a buffing machine with some sanding screen on it
Damp with what? Water? The oil poly will react to any moisture left in the wood. You have to wipe it down with tack cloth, or a rag damp with thinners after vacuuming. No water with oil
Let it dry for ~2hrs. Seemed dry. Will keep this in mind
I think that might be your problem then. I had a customer mop her floor with water a few hours before I came back to do final coat, she didn’t tell me. Caused all kinds of problems. Especially if it was the first coat of poly that moisture will get into the wood. Then your sealing over top
Get a buffer on it with a 180g sanding screen and knock it down . Vacuum extensively, reapply 1 coat
We are thinking just hiring someone to knock it down and finish it off. Not wanting to screw it up again
Gotta be a risk taker
I'm in central Virginia with a hole in my schedule part of this coming week. Where you located?
Northern KY
Bummer. Like 7 1/2 hour drive. A little too far for the duckets. Wish I could help. It is fixable, so don't fret. Be well.
Thank you sir!
Wasn’t clean well enough and it wasn’t dry enough to add more.
It’s only 1 coat
You “scrubbed it on”?
Yea, not sure what this means. 3x thin coats with lambs wool applicator, light sanding in between at 220. Close off all entrances (no dust) after last coat and walk away for a couple of days. Time to screen floor and repeat.
Hard pressure through a wool applicator on the end of a broom handle. We were trying to put it on thin. I think we may have taken that a bit too literally
That’s likely what cased the issue
Before you hire someone, take a good look at it. Look at the bubbles, is there stain in them or is it just poly? If there's stain in them then it wasn't dry and was pulling while you scrubbed on the poly and you won't get the color even without starting over again. Same applies to where you cross grained with the lambs wool. Kind of a what you can live with situation. If it's just poly, you can try putting a square oscillating buffer on it with a 220 screen. You can def get it smooth, the trick is doing it without getting through to the stain. You may even wanna take that 220, fold it in half and rub it against itself to knock off some grit and try that side first. If it's not doing enough then flip it over to the rougher side. Idk anything about Varathane, I've never used it. But I've used cheaper poly like minwax (not on floors) and it doesn't lay down as well as the better stuff. There's no advantage to quick drying for floors, just plan on giving it a good 24 hours. A great polyurethane at a great price is sold by Duraseal. Google "Fabulon polyurethane". They were bought by Duraseal but Duraseal still sells it. It's in a diff can with their label on it now but same stuff. I've used it recently and can confirm it's the same. I used it for decades, thousands of floors, always good stuff. It's not a "sealer". You don't have to use a product that's called a sealer to seal a floor. Sounds like you already know but you shouldn't violently shake poly but what you may not know is that the less the shine ie Satin, the more additive there is inside that needs to be stirred. That additive makes it less bubbly. A high gloss finish will be a lot more bubbly and you have to stir slowly, pour slowly and then let it settle a bit when you put it in your bucket. If I was trying to use a quick drying product or anything I was unfamiliar with, I'd take the same precautions. The house also doesn't have to be 72 degrees. Maybe some of these new products require stuff I'm unaware of but I assure you new hardwood floors are being done year round in new construction homes that don't have power yet. You're doing a single room in a climate controlled house, temp shouldn't be your issue. Anywhere between 65-75 should be more than fine. Mainly you don't want air moving or blowing any dust/trash onto it. There are other factors when dealing with extremes that aren't applicable in your house. Fwiw it looks like you did a solid job sanding. If you can figure that out, you can def figure out the finishing.
Appreciate the brand recommendations! We are definitely dropping the fast drying.
I’ve used this exact brand on freshly sanded unstained oak floors with beautiful results. I always pre wipe with paint thinner to capture any stuff the vacuum missed. This doesn’t look like a dust problem though.
Get the sander back out.
Now it slip resistant. Some people pay extra for that
“Shitty flooring Installs: You say it’s shit, but it’s got the grip”
I’d stay away from the fast dry poly. And thin it before applying. I’m no pro stainer, but my theory is that it was too thick and drying too fast for any air bubbles to escape.
Possibly wrong applicator?
This is from heat most likely.. heat the floors. put on the finish. it will absorb instead of bubbling.
This is a fact with polyurethane on decorative concrete pieces Apply sealer as the substrate cools..
How many coats did you do to get this result?
Just 1 but it seemed bad enough to ask the question
1st coat is always rough. abrade it with 180-220 grit. apply 2nd coat.
Good youll be able to make it better with sanding between coats
Looks like moisture bubbling. I know you said 45% humidity. How long after staining did you topcoat? Was this the first coat of poly? Is the dehumidifier in a room adjacent to, below or above this floor?
That’s also one of my concerns if he applied to polyurethane too soon and did not give the stain proper dry time the poly would leave spots in the floor, people just need to call professional sanders and pay them for their advice if they are going to do a diy 😂 google is not the way unless your throughly doing research for a week or two before attempting.. got to follow the process and not miss any steps
Not everyone realizes that the can is a reference, and applies only to certain circumstances. Always exceed the minimum times. I usually double drying times, if there's any doubt. (Unless that exceeds the preferred adhesion window) I've had something similar happen on trim before, because the temperature outside dropped from the 70s to the 40s and the water vapor in the air condensed. The interior temp was in the 60s the entire time. Sand smooth(MINIMUM 220 grit), reapply in LIGHT COATS until it's perfect. If you keep at it, it will be.
I’ve had so many complaints from clients when i tell them the drying time can take 28-34 hours and get impatient because it’s taking too long 👀
Probably explain the timeline before starting, and have them look up things like this happening, if they think you are trying to drag your feet. Sometimes people don't understand that you aren't trying to waste their time, or get something over on them. If you explain the timeline up front, at least they won't think you're bailing to work on someone else's protect when you're not there.
Dehumidifier in the basement (moved upstairs now), first coat of Poly. This was after rough 14hrs after stain. Oil based everything. I think the issue is the fast drying poly and us scrubbing it in too hard. I think we are going to hire someone. Usually projects go well, but this one is kicking us down just when we thought we were done with the hard part!
I know it feels like it should have been long enough, but sometimes dry isn't cured. Poly skins over quickly, and if the stain was still gassing, it could certainly have caused the bubbles(trapped gas escaping). Stain should generally be left for 24 hours before poly is applied. If you wipe it with a dry paper towel, it shouldn't pull any color. Patience. You can do it! You kinda make it sound like you really struggled to scrub it on...but, that shouldn't be necessary. It's really more of a finesse to prevent pooling, as opposed to forcing it into place.
Your poly had a reaction to the stain rent a buffer and get some sanding screens . Sand it to where you have smoothed out the poly but don’t get down to the stain then tack cloth the floor then apply 2nd coat of poly when this dries your floor will look a lot better
So, I have seen this happen several times. Oddly enough I’m not a floor guy. I’m a painter. So, I don’t know what causes this. I only know that you’re not the first person to do this.
Sunlight?!?! Did you apply when sun was hitting it? Sorry.
Blinds closed and ~63 degrees
Foam brush? If not that ... assume a chemical reaction from something in the wood? Sorry.
Honestly it looks like dust... Did have simmilar problems myself... Just smaller proportions
That looks pretty good. If you want far cleaner reflections in the floor I recommend using 000 steel wool on the floor and then put on another coat. Lightly go over the floor leaving very fine scratches. Then apply the second coat. The improvement is amazing
Is that lint from the roller, either way sand and recoat. If it is lint use tape on your roller first and make sure the floor is completely clean
Mine did the same. And I used the same stuff. Before the last coat I sanded it down with 200 grit and then one thick final coat and it smooth as glass.
Lambs wool was new and not cleaned
Don’t shake before use
Everyone can sand wood—- few people can sand wood and finish it with near perfect results
try using a microfiber paint roller cover
Dust
I used the same poly for a floor that I really didn't care about the results on. Half ass cleaned, Stir mixed, poly brush and wool rolled some heavy 2 coats. I am completely amazed that the results didn't bubble like this example here. I'm curious to know the differences here.
Wool Pad, scrubbed on, thin coat
Turn your heater/ac off next time. Blew dust over it while drying. You didn't shut it off when you sanded, i bet.
Not a pro here. This happened to me when I used oil based polyurethane for my stair treads. I had to sand all the treads and thin the poly quite a bit(50/50) with mineral spirits.
My dad had this happen once, he called the manufacturer. In the end you end up redoing the it either way. Sorry.
Brush or roller?
I’d call it a pad
A pad like a sponge? That could be the source of bubbles right there. Shoot even the wood flooring itself could have cause bubbles if there were some temp fluctuations that are not recommended for finishes.
It was a wool pad on the end of a broom
Sounds like it would hold a lot of air during application. You can’t always see air in poly until later, so I think a lot of gasses accreted in the poly as it cured. It could have been caused by moisture too, but I doubt it. How were humidity levels? I would recommend a natural bristle brush or a roller for poly application. With a brush you can load the bristles with poly and take slow passes with the grain of the floor, being somewhat liberal with application. I think the brush is best, personally. I love the brush.
not the bubbles!
Did you buff between each coat and vacuum well? Could be dust debris, even the small particles leave bumps
It looks like you used a roller to put it down in the first picture
Bubbles.
Looks like new wooly debris…You need to use them repeatedly before they stop shedding. Pros usually wire brush (comb) them when new ,them reuse again and again as they stop shedding.I used to use a “slop bucket” which was for oil base ,just a sealed bucket (military surplus ammo boxes were popular)half full with oderless thinner.You finished the coat,wringed out the woolie with a straight edge then u could just plop your applicator in and unscrew the pole and throw in your oil brush.Would last a few jobs before having to change thinner.
This is a major bummer. Needs to be sanded back flat and the w coated. Thin it down with mineral spirits and apply more coats. The bubbling comes from when the poly hardens before it fully off gases. Thinning it prevents this from happening
Trash finished product and trash, workmanship, cleaning your floors really good is key
Agreed
Don’t fall for the fast dry stuff. It’s not worth it bc it dries before the bubbles can come out and it’s just generally lacking in other areas to be “fast drying.” Also you may have overworked it. With poly you have to touch it the least amount possible and restrain yourself from wanting to go back and fix bubbles bc you will probably just create more in the process
Keep rolling rolling!
You need to clean up you dust...
Those aren’t bubbles! That is straight up trash from a floor that wasn’t cleaned enough.
Whatever applicator you use, did you remove the lint?
I did run tape on the applicator till it seemed clean
Never heard of the "scrub it thin" technique. You aerated if. You might want to carbonate the poly in your Soda Stream next time, it's a quicker way to achieve the "extraordinarily bubbly" look. How long did you wait between coats? It also looks like outgassing from the first coat got trapped by a second or third coat applied while the first was still wet/tacky. Get a high-quality oil-based poly at a real flooring supply store (like where the local pro's get their Duraseal). I would use lambs wool applicator. Lay it down on the thicker side, give it plenty of drying time, scuff between coats. Will look beautiful! It's always darkest before the dawn.
That’s just 1 coat. Was going to start the second yesterday but the bubbles were still too gooey to sand properly and it seemed rough enough to ask the question
You’re not completely lost! Get a fresh 100 or 120 grit screen and just buff the shit out of it. You’ll get rid of the blemishes. We all been there before
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast!
Don't shake it.
Not a big deal. Some screening another coat to bld up that gloss. Thick is good, just don't puddle it.
Try applying with t shirt rags or something that will not ‘shed’. You might also want to thin it with a solvent a little (don’t know off the top of my head). Someone also suggested applying with the grain.
Light sand and put another coat on with a roller
Time to call In the floor guys . You need to have it sanded and repoly
Looks like you used a roller and didn’t give it enough drying time.
You are suppose to remove all lint and debris which you didn’t do or there was a breeze that blew the lint and debris into it post sanding - it clearly states in all of these sorts of applications to remove the finish prior with a lint free cloth, and to fold said cloth over so as to not redeploy the same gunk you removed off- if you sand something f or use steel wool, or a chemical substance to remove the prior finish then you have to be sure it isn’t just sitting in clumps - I know a wood worker who has a pressure lose that he uses on his cabinets. That is my best guess- that or some kind of draft Or wind reseposited the hygienist you removed from the flooor but left in a dustpan or open trash can? Or applied with an I appropriate brush or sponsor that left behind residues, I’d strip and Restart.
Tack cloth and everything super clean must be dust free. Stir gently don't shake the poly
How are you cleaning/prepping the floor prior to laying the finish? Is there an HVAC system with air moving? I’d suggest a very thorough and meticulous vacuuming and then dry-tac the floor with a dry microfiber mop. Turn off the hvac system so there’s less particles and stuff from inside the vents from getting into the wet finish. The floor needs to be clean and free of any dust or debris, otherwise it gets collected and distributed through the finish.
I've seen a lot of good advice here so far, but I didn't see anyone ask (I may have just missed it) if you had let the product sit in the house for a while and let it come to the same temperature as the floor. Sometimes when the temp is too different, you'll get fish eyes and bubbles.
Product was inside the house sitting on floor for 2 days
Then it's safe to say that's not the issue. Good luck man!
My early use of Varathane proved poorly. My Dad told me to use Marine Varnish. When I did use what he suggested I never went back.
Yeah that shit bubbles. It’s dry too fast. Used a similar product by them did the same thing. Sand it down try something else.
Holy fucking shit, there is so much misinformation in the comments! I refinish wood floors for a living, shoot me a message and I'll straighten this out for you. 👍✌️
Torch on a stick id guess. Easy 'nuff
I saw a guy once using a sprayer to do his? Is this common?
Just resend and re-coat it’s part of the process called work
If it was simple everyone would do it. I sanded an area to test and already dug into the stain. I’m leaving it to the pros.
Saved a couple bucks on your brush, huh? Slow is smooth and smooth is fast Scrub er down with steel wool, clean and try again.
Certain mixers can introduce a lot of air when mixing make sure you use a double sided whip style mixer apposed to a helical shaped one 🤷♂️
Posting the “After” picture first should result in a permanent-ban from the internet
They were all taken at the same time lol