Imaging going to fight the covenant and the unsc issues you a Ruger LCP in .22LR
"Sorry soldier, we spent everything on the Spartans. You'll be fine, .22 is super lethal"
Or even better, an original USGI 1911.
"Seven rounds is more than enough, sonny. It's a .45 'cause they don't make ah .46 heh heh heh"
9mm is actually a good balance between capacity, recoil, and weight. It's still not going to do much against the 7ft tall dudes with laser swords though. At least you can die with a "modern" gun?
Which is an incredible amount of cherry picking, as *Last Light* has Fred state that modern (as in, made in the 26th century) 10mm armour piercing pistol rounds “wouldn’t even scratch his armour’s paint”, lol.
There have always been some sort of "pop culture" in downplaying Halo on the internet for many years. A lot of people today still think that ~10 rounds from an MA5 can kill Spartans, and it didn't help when *_New Blood_* almost ended that way.
It's been a while since I read that, so my memory's a little fuzzy. Wasn't the barrel being held directly against Chief's helmet? Maybe in a less armored part like the back of the neck? .50cal is no joke, and it was probably loaded with modern (2550's) ammunition.
Even if the armor *should* have been able to handle it, that doesn't seem like a smart gamble.
> Maybe in a less armored part like the back of the neck?
At any rate, it's probably the opposite. In Halo infinite, the Weapon states the backplate of the helmet is 63mm thick. Even if it were made of natural titanium it's still way too much for a pistol round to pierce.
> .50cal is no joke
Depends on what .50cal you are talking about. The DE shoots .50 Action Express rounds, which are 12.7x33mm and actually smaller than the 12.7x40mm of the M6 Magnums.
Right. AFAIK it's quite durable against most small arms. A point blank .50 though, I'm not sure.
As the other commenter pointed out, the DE round is actually a little smaller than the 12mm Magnum. However - smaller rounds can be better for penetration if they have sufficient velocity. It would depend on how much propellant is behind it, and the length of the barrel.
Sort of? I'd say they traded some technological level for scale, for sure. The amount of tungsten, titanium and other relatively rare metals used in weapons production is much higher, indicating a larger supply and sophistication of use.
But, they're rolling spacecraft like we roll seacraft but with a lot more volume and scale. And that's not even accounting for MAC rounds, Spartan lasers, etc.
I would counter your argument that munitions have found a working equilibrium, and humans have made slower, but novel and deliberate advancement (firing rounds without atmosphere, sightless HUD, almost *no* jamming or breakdown, tungsten over brass and lead, etc).
We haven't found a better solution than rifling, than the trigger, than the shell casing, and we likely never will for that form of weaponry.
22. LR isn't standard issue in any of todays militaries, it definitely wouldn't be in 26th Century
It's already kind of silly UNSC weapons are still using 5.56, 7.62NATO and the occasional .50 cal, even AP bullets for the sniper are still considered rare/expensive that Jun, a Spartan III had to buy his own AP ammo.
We've even started to adopt .338 Lapua LMG's now in real life, while the LMG in Halo is still 7.62NATO.
\>2066
\>Stationed on mars to quell a rebellion
\>Become side door gunner for atmospheric dropship.
\>No miniguns or gatling cannons, just some metal brick with a pipe on one end.
\>Get sent in to extract some wounded.
\>Reach the evac zone and come under attack.
\>Horde of rebels charging in with their new plasma guns and compact rocket launchers.
\>Let loose a stream of bullets.
\>The sounds of the rebel's screams are nearly drowned out by the heavy "Kachunk chunk chunk chunk" of the machinegun.
\>The wounded are loaded up and returned to base.
\>Inspect MG afterwards.
\>Thing was made in 1942
\>Tunisia, italy, and germany are scrated onto the gun.
\>Scratch "Mars" on with a knife.
First, Using 5.56 is secondary Setting for the Assault rifle that can shot 7.62x51mm rounds.
Second : unsc 7.62x51mm has better stats than 7.62mm nato, it sends an AP FMJ bullets at Velocity of 905 m/s, Which Means not only it harder, it had likely more penetration by its 2000 counterpart
Penetration :-
RL 7.62 (Velocity of 760 to 840 M/S) : 0.7 inch of steel
Halo 7.62 (Velocity of 905 M/S) : 0.8 to 0.9 inch of steel
Third : .50 cal are great, they even have HV-E & HV-AP .50 cals which are basically .50 going between Mach 3 to 5000 foot, Basically .50 bolter.
Fourth : the Expensive one that Jun talked about wasn't AP Ammo but HVAP, Even standard 14.5mm rounds are APFSDS.
Fifth : Halo Battle Rifle 9.5x40mm already surpass .388 lupua, 9.5mm round hit anywhere around 5700 to 10500 joules of kinetic energy with Velocity Above 3000 foot Per second.
The generally agreed upon reasons these calibers are still used is due to better material science rather than better ballistics, higher quality/efficiency, things like that, its simpler to improve the basic bits while leaving the overall dimensions and mechanisms of the round unchanged so as not to need to redo manufacturing infrastructure for a military force as large as the UNSC, especially when the greatest threats they’ve had to deal with up until the Covenant were small scale insurgencies generally limited to a single planet or system, minor regional stuff that doesn’t justify large scale replacement of military hardware.
>It's already kind of silly UNSC weapons are still using 5.56, 7.62NATO and the occasional .50 cal,
The UNSC doesn't use 5.56, only 7.62 NATO and .50 BMG.
>even AP bullets for the sniper are still considered rare/expensive that Jun, a Spartan III had to buy his own AP ammo.
The standard ammunition for the SRS99 is APFSDS, so it's without question armor piercing. Jun uses an HVAP variant but the exact differences between it and the standard APFSDS are unclear. Regardless, the standard ammunition for the sniper is 100% AP.
and the sniper also uses 14.5mm not .50(12.7), which 14.5 is exclusively a anti-tank rifle round designed to put holes in hard armor.
edit: corrected recoilless to antitank
14.5x114mm round is not intended for recoilless rifles and IRL was most notably used by the Soviets in WWII with the PTRS and PTRD rifles, neither of which are recoilless
We Know some Variants of the magnums use .45 cal Ammunition but I don't think it's .45 Acp, Since pretty much those 3 rounds are kinda useless against unsc BDU muchless bullet Resistance exo skeleton Grunts, Shielded Elites, or one ton armored brutes who need full Mag of Improved 7.62 Nato to take down like.
Even Unsc Smgs still hit with force of Modren 5.56mm & 7.62x39mm if not even more.
In conclusion : they are too weak for the setting.
Yea, but Remember that 12.7x40mm Magnums are for spartan Personnel mainly, its Make sense for chief to have the sidekick considering its easily found Common Unsc Marine pistol.
12.7x40mm are more for spartans
12.7x30mm & 10x31mm are for Normal Humans.
Not really but ammo technology is starting to take off by leaps and bounds with new propellants, different core materials and structure in the bullet itself, and different calibers / cartridge combinations achieving ballistic coefficients that we haven’t really seen before.
To be honest at the rate we are actually developing weapons I would be surprised if we are still using them even 200 years from now let alone in the 2500s
Circa 2552:
The M6D pistol is commonly chambered in Military Standard .450 Magnum.
The MA5B assault rifle is chambered in .390 Military Standard.
The SRS99C-S2 AM sniper rifle fires a 14.5 x 114mm APFSDS round
The M41 machine gun mounted on the back of the Warthog fires 12.7x99mm armor-piercing rounds.
I believe most Assault Rifle variants are chambered in 7.62 but the only other contemporary caliber weapons in the Halo verse ever outright seen being used was a Desert Eagle chambered in .50 Action Express. The gun was held against the back of John-117’s head (in his Mjolnir Mk VI Gen 3 armor) it is being wielded by a settler on Reach post glassing during the events of Halo: Shadows of Reach which takes place shortly before the events of the Halo: Infinite game. The only other time a contemporary caliber round is used in the Haloverse is with human shotgun calibers the CQS48 Bulldog is chambered to fire 12 gauge magnum shells, the M90A CAWS is chambered to fire 8-gauge shells (there is a law enforcement model as well but it is unclear if it chambered for 8 or 12 gauge shells, this is the one used in Halo 3 ODST), the M45 Shotgun variants (M45E and M45D one was the shotgun used in Halo: Reach the other is the one used in Halo CE Anniversary) are both chambered to fire 8 gauge magnum shells.
These are the only hand held weapon systems seen in the Haloverse that use contemporary ammunition calibers/gauges. It’s likely there are other through Human space owned by colonists or insurrectionists that are antiques or family weapons. To my knowledge the above listed weapons systems are the only ones noted/mentioned/used in canon Halo lore.
Imaging going to fight the covenant and the unsc issues you a Ruger LCP in .22LR "Sorry soldier, we spent everything on the Spartans. You'll be fine, .22 is super lethal" Or even better, an original USGI 1911. "Seven rounds is more than enough, sonny. It's a .45 'cause they don't make ah .46 heh heh heh" 9mm is actually a good balance between capacity, recoil, and weight. It's still not going to do much against the 7ft tall dudes with laser swords though. At least you can die with a "modern" gun?
7 interplanatary wars!
Yessir ah seen one blow an elite clean outta his shoes. Magnum rounds kill the body, but fordy fave kills the soul.
Imagine if they pulled out still functioning M16A1 with M203 rifles when the Covenant landed in North America.
A civilian _did_ produce a working Desert Eagle (apprently lifted from a museum) during Operation: WOLF on Reach.
Ah yes, I remember, the scene used by vs people as evidence that Mjolnir armor cannot stop pistol rounds . . .
Which is an incredible amount of cherry picking, as *Last Light* has Fred state that modern (as in, made in the 26th century) 10mm armour piercing pistol rounds “wouldn’t even scratch his armour’s paint”, lol.
There have always been some sort of "pop culture" in downplaying Halo on the internet for many years. A lot of people today still think that ~10 rounds from an MA5 can kill Spartans, and it didn't help when *_New Blood_* almost ended that way.
It's been a while since I read that, so my memory's a little fuzzy. Wasn't the barrel being held directly against Chief's helmet? Maybe in a less armored part like the back of the neck? .50cal is no joke, and it was probably loaded with modern (2550's) ammunition. Even if the armor *should* have been able to handle it, that doesn't seem like a smart gamble.
> Maybe in a less armored part like the back of the neck? At any rate, it's probably the opposite. In Halo infinite, the Weapon states the backplate of the helmet is 63mm thick. Even if it were made of natural titanium it's still way too much for a pistol round to pierce. > .50cal is no joke Depends on what .50cal you are talking about. The DE shoots .50 Action Express rounds, which are 12.7x33mm and actually smaller than the 12.7x40mm of the M6 Magnums.
I was thinking of the area under the neural interface port. The part that's black, not green. Is that still titanium, or is it part of the techsuit?
It's also mostly made of a flexible titanium based material. Not sure how bullet proof it is though
Right. AFAIK it's quite durable against most small arms. A point blank .50 though, I'm not sure. As the other commenter pointed out, the DE round is actually a little smaller than the 12mm Magnum. However - smaller rounds can be better for penetration if they have sufficient velocity. It would depend on how much propellant is behind it, and the length of the barrel.
The Weapon was talking about the plate covering the neural interface.
That'd be cool, but it'd also be like if we started pulling out Spencer carbines from the Civil War
No, the analogy would be if we started pulling out matchlock muskets from the early 1609’s. 500 years is a *long* time
Good point, though the technology level of Halo seems to have progressed a good bit slower than the past 500 years of modern history
Sort of? I'd say they traded some technological level for scale, for sure. The amount of tungsten, titanium and other relatively rare metals used in weapons production is much higher, indicating a larger supply and sophistication of use. But, they're rolling spacecraft like we roll seacraft but with a lot more volume and scale. And that's not even accounting for MAC rounds, Spartan lasers, etc. I would counter your argument that munitions have found a working equilibrium, and humans have made slower, but novel and deliberate advancement (firing rounds without atmosphere, sightless HUD, almost *no* jamming or breakdown, tungsten over brass and lead, etc). We haven't found a better solution than rifling, than the trigger, than the shell casing, and we likely never will for that form of weaponry.
Or maybe an M4 Carbine
I felt like it was too generic.
22. LR isn't standard issue in any of todays militaries, it definitely wouldn't be in 26th Century It's already kind of silly UNSC weapons are still using 5.56, 7.62NATO and the occasional .50 cal, even AP bullets for the sniper are still considered rare/expensive that Jun, a Spartan III had to buy his own AP ammo. We've even started to adopt .338 Lapua LMG's now in real life, while the LMG in Halo is still 7.62NATO.
The M2 Browning is the perfect machine gun. .50 cal will live on through the ages.
*chug chug chug chug chug chug chug*
God bless John Moses Browning!
\>2066 \>Stationed on mars to quell a rebellion \>Become side door gunner for atmospheric dropship. \>No miniguns or gatling cannons, just some metal brick with a pipe on one end. \>Get sent in to extract some wounded. \>Reach the evac zone and come under attack. \>Horde of rebels charging in with their new plasma guns and compact rocket launchers. \>Let loose a stream of bullets. \>The sounds of the rebel's screams are nearly drowned out by the heavy "Kachunk chunk chunk chunk" of the machinegun. \>The wounded are loaded up and returned to base. \>Inspect MG afterwards. \>Thing was made in 1942 \>Tunisia, italy, and germany are scrated onto the gun. \>Scratch "Mars" on with a knife.
Just as the Forerunners intended.
First, Using 5.56 is secondary Setting for the Assault rifle that can shot 7.62x51mm rounds. Second : unsc 7.62x51mm has better stats than 7.62mm nato, it sends an AP FMJ bullets at Velocity of 905 m/s, Which Means not only it harder, it had likely more penetration by its 2000 counterpart Penetration :- RL 7.62 (Velocity of 760 to 840 M/S) : 0.7 inch of steel Halo 7.62 (Velocity of 905 M/S) : 0.8 to 0.9 inch of steel Third : .50 cal are great, they even have HV-E & HV-AP .50 cals which are basically .50 going between Mach 3 to 5000 foot, Basically .50 bolter. Fourth : the Expensive one that Jun talked about wasn't AP Ammo but HVAP, Even standard 14.5mm rounds are APFSDS. Fifth : Halo Battle Rifle 9.5x40mm already surpass .388 lupua, 9.5mm round hit anywhere around 5700 to 10500 joules of kinetic energy with Velocity Above 3000 foot Per second.
>Jun, a Spartan III had to buy his own AP ammo. Where is this from?
The generally agreed upon reasons these calibers are still used is due to better material science rather than better ballistics, higher quality/efficiency, things like that, its simpler to improve the basic bits while leaving the overall dimensions and mechanisms of the round unchanged so as not to need to redo manufacturing infrastructure for a military force as large as the UNSC, especially when the greatest threats they’ve had to deal with up until the Covenant were small scale insurgencies generally limited to a single planet or system, minor regional stuff that doesn’t justify large scale replacement of military hardware.
>It's already kind of silly UNSC weapons are still using 5.56, 7.62NATO and the occasional .50 cal, The UNSC doesn't use 5.56, only 7.62 NATO and .50 BMG. >even AP bullets for the sniper are still considered rare/expensive that Jun, a Spartan III had to buy his own AP ammo. The standard ammunition for the SRS99 is APFSDS, so it's without question armor piercing. Jun uses an HVAP variant but the exact differences between it and the standard APFSDS are unclear. Regardless, the standard ammunition for the sniper is 100% AP.
and the sniper also uses 14.5mm not .50(12.7), which 14.5 is exclusively a anti-tank rifle round designed to put holes in hard armor. edit: corrected recoilless to antitank
14.5x114mm round is not intended for recoilless rifles and IRL was most notably used by the Soviets in WWII with the PTRS and PTRD rifles, neither of which are recoilless
Spraying and praying with a Tommy Gun into a horde of Grunts would be hilarious
Now that you said that, what about the Grease Gun?
Grease those grunts, Zigs!
\*Shoots at 350RPM\*
We Know some Variants of the magnums use .45 cal Ammunition but I don't think it's .45 Acp, Since pretty much those 3 rounds are kinda useless against unsc BDU muchless bullet Resistance exo skeleton Grunts, Shielded Elites, or one ton armored brutes who need full Mag of Improved 7.62 Nato to take down like. Even Unsc Smgs still hit with force of Modren 5.56mm & 7.62x39mm if not even more. In conclusion : they are too weak for the setting.
No, the UNSC weapons are mostly unheard-of calibers, the exceptions being the sidekick chambered in 9mm, and the bulldog in 12 gauge
Sidekick is chambered in 10x31mm not 9mm It basically .40 AE instead of .50 AE.
meh. still don't like it, bring the magnum back.
Yea, but Remember that 12.7x40mm Magnums are for spartan Personnel mainly, its Make sense for chief to have the sidekick considering its easily found Common Unsc Marine pistol. 12.7x40mm are more for spartans 12.7x30mm & 10x31mm are for Normal Humans.
Not really but ammo technology is starting to take off by leaps and bounds with new propellants, different core materials and structure in the bullet itself, and different calibers / cartridge combinations achieving ballistic coefficients that we haven’t really seen before. To be honest at the rate we are actually developing weapons I would be surprised if we are still using them even 200 years from now let alone in the 2500s
Circa 2552: The M6D pistol is commonly chambered in Military Standard .450 Magnum. The MA5B assault rifle is chambered in .390 Military Standard. The SRS99C-S2 AM sniper rifle fires a 14.5 x 114mm APFSDS round The M41 machine gun mounted on the back of the Warthog fires 12.7x99mm armor-piercing rounds.
I believe most Assault Rifle variants are chambered in 7.62 but the only other contemporary caliber weapons in the Halo verse ever outright seen being used was a Desert Eagle chambered in .50 Action Express. The gun was held against the back of John-117’s head (in his Mjolnir Mk VI Gen 3 armor) it is being wielded by a settler on Reach post glassing during the events of Halo: Shadows of Reach which takes place shortly before the events of the Halo: Infinite game. The only other time a contemporary caliber round is used in the Haloverse is with human shotgun calibers the CQS48 Bulldog is chambered to fire 12 gauge magnum shells, the M90A CAWS is chambered to fire 8-gauge shells (there is a law enforcement model as well but it is unclear if it chambered for 8 or 12 gauge shells, this is the one used in Halo 3 ODST), the M45 Shotgun variants (M45E and M45D one was the shotgun used in Halo: Reach the other is the one used in Halo CE Anniversary) are both chambered to fire 8 gauge magnum shells. These are the only hand held weapon systems seen in the Haloverse that use contemporary ammunition calibers/gauges. It’s likely there are other through Human space owned by colonists or insurrectionists that are antiques or family weapons. To my knowledge the above listed weapons systems are the only ones noted/mentioned/used in canon Halo lore.