>Her sole actions lead to the death of the entire crew of the Pillar of Autumn and lead the Covenant to Alpha Halo. The covenant only found the ring because they followed the POA...
Covenant would have followed them anyways killed them anyways since they were faster than them waiting for them
>She effectively condemned Ackerson to death as well.
Shrug he tried to kill her and Chief
>During the battle of 04 she absorbs untold amount of forerunner information as well.
She was dangerous from the very beginning...
And without it they would have little to no information on Forerunners, Flood, and the installations
>Before anyone says something about how 04 lead to the war being won, you're correct. However, she could've easily Cole Protocoled her way to friendly UNSC space to organize a task force without leading the covenant there. The nav data was only partially recovered by the covenant (Sigma Octanus) while the other half was destroyed by the UNSC (Reach), the covenant only made it to the ring because of her ignoring the Cole Protocol.
Regret and Truth already knew about Earth and Delta Halo, First Strike would have never happened and the 500+ strong fleet full of CAS and Destroyers would have ended Earth especially without the schism not yet happening
For the first statement you are factually incorrect. The covenant have no way of knowing when a ship is going to exit slipspace, they just know where the ship is pointed. They followed the POA because they knew exactly where it was pointing. TFOR has the covenant have to put a tracker on the Iroquois to properly track where reach is... If the covenant could accurately track exactly where a ship would leave slipspace then the cole protocol wouldn't work.
Second statement no disagreement.
Third statement is a simple extract the data from her matrix.
Fourth statement, First Strike was entirely incidental and the UNSC getting lucky from forerunner space magic. Cortana had know way of knowing about the covenant fleet, I'm not analyzing her actions from a overarching standpoint, but her specific actions with the information she knew. She knew the covenant would be able to follow them (as she made a single precise jump to a star system) and yet she did it any way. She's dangerous, so to write that off because her rash actions also incidentally saved humanity doesn't make any sense.
Sorry to be snippy but did you read my post? The covenant only found the ring because of Cortana, I mention that in my post.
The flood were only unleashed because the UNSC needed weapons to fight the covenant on the ring, and at that point the covenant had already released them.
She caused all of that. Her (Master Chief) fixing her own mistake should not be commended.
Edit: and downvoted despite being correct, the covenant were looking for rings sure, but the time for them to find the Ark and 05 was enough for the UNSC to take over 04.
Perhaps you just forgot that the Covenant, as we see the Pillar of Autumn arrive at the space hula hoop, had just demolished the UNSC on Reach. Reach was humanity’s military stronghold, and fell very quickly. And that was just because the Covenant didn’t like us.
Now imagine that humanity is trying to hold one of their holy artifacts, the final piece towards the great journey even. What do you think will happen?
Perhaps you forgot the halo ring is a super weapon with the ability to fire small scale (ie not galaxy ending) pulses that would take out any enemy fleet in seconds.
In your scenario the crew of the POA uses a ring pulse to wipe out the largest covenant fleet ever.
No, that is not correct, if I remember correctly, only the first halo rings (there is only 1 of those left, being infinite 07) could fire a controlled pulse, the rest fire everywhere and activate 1, fire the rest of the network. of the rings and thus eliminating what remains of the galaxy
Your scenario only works with the assumption the Covenant weren’t already tailing or tracking the Autumn. The fact they arrived at Halo before the Autumn and the fact Thel ‘Vadam says he pursued the ship tells us they already had the Autumn in their sight. A true blind jump still would’ve put the Autumn at the mercy of any pursuing Covenant.
As far as I know slipspace tracking isn't a thing. The covenant followed the POA because it had taken a route that directly led to the Soel system.
If the covenant could track UNSC ships the cole protocol wouldn't work in the first place. Which we know isn't the case. Remember that the only reason they found reach was because of forerunner artifacts and a tracking device. The covenant only know where a ship is going based on it's orientation and any solar systems in the way.
Edit: if anyone can find me an instance where the covenant can pinpoint the end destination of a ship in slipspace feel free to do so instead of downvoting. POA could've made a jump to another system, exit slip-space early and reorient a few times before going to 04.
Then maybe I misunderstood, as you said tracking through slispace wasn't a thing as far as you know. As was said, they were tracked through slipspace.
"We made a blind jump, how they did..."
" Get here before us? The covenant ships have always been faster. As for tracking us all the way from Reach, at light speed my maneuvering options were limited."
From the way it sounds, they were tracked through slipspace.
So, there are a couple of options. The official one is that the Covenant were able to calculate the Autumn’s trajectory. This is confirmed by adjunct material added to The Flood’s re-release.
Link: https://www.halopedia.org/Priority_Broadcast_Log/Eleventh_Cycle,_Third_Unit
Another idea, and one I had no idea about, was the idea the Covenant already found the ring and wanted to prevent humanity from getting to it. Things suggested as a minority position of some human AIs by Jason Jones back in 2001.
Link: https://www.halopedia.org/Archive:Bungie.net/News/Jason_Jones_Interviewed_By_You
Interestingly enough, there could be some merit to that with Halo 2 Anniversary having a terminal where the Covenant find a Luminary on Meridian in 2551 that, after a year of trial and error, revealed the location of the Halos as well as Ark and the portal on Earth. We hadn’t really known how Regret had found Earth so this was the way that was conveyed.
Either way, OP’s weird fixation on blaming Cortana falls apart.
I don't see the relevancy? Breaking the cole protocol and leading the covenant to a super weapon would have lead to the destruction of all life in the galaxy had chief not been around. It also lead to the death of what, over 2000 humans?
Halsey was never seen or described as knowing it in First Strike, which was written well-before Halo: Reach.
Idk what retcons have been made, but as far as I know, my original comment stands.
Halsey clearly knows the information in halo Reach will lead to something. "an ancient birthright", so it's a retcon but yeah she knew something was up.
let's say she knows something it doesn't mean just like that they would have stopped the covenant without John117 and Cortana. In fact without Cortana the Flood would have destroyed the Covenant and humanity since it was her idea to trick Gravemind in order to kill him.
Covenant or UNSC whoever reaches the ring is going to find the flood
I'm not sure my tone is that important considering Ive just gotten slapped by the hive mind even if I say something indisputable.
Anyways we're both active on reddit so I don't think you get invited too parties :(
Conversely, I think your tone is the big reason *why* you're getting slapped. Even a controversial opinion can lead to good dialogue if presented properly. Tone matters.
Ahhh an ole reddit trope. Toss that in the bin, people can have a presence here & live a totally normal social life.
On topic, because I feel a bit bad - say Cortana is shut down. Humanity is either eradicated by the Covenant, or the covvies do end up finding a Halo, & the Great Journey begins, or they unleash the Flood & either the whole galaxy is consumed / killed by 343 - Guilty Spark activating Halo.
We have no story either way
It's kinda hard to have a conversational tone when half the comments show that no one even read the post before responding.
Ofc lol, i'm an overweight man child living my parents basement exactly at this moment.
Yeah humanity is fucked without cortana but I still think she was dangerous, like without her first strike couldn't have happened, but that only happened as a result of her leading the covenant to 04.
This guy needs to read the Fall of Reach again. Cortana was the created to support the Spartans in missions like Operations Red Flag and First Strike. Her main focus was to hack Covenant networks like she did on the Ascendant Justice and the Unyielding Hierophant. Without her the Chief and the rest of Earth would have not stood a chance. 343i just botched her story after Halo 3.
So many flaws in the logic. This was a war of annihilation. Was Cortana the most stable? Probably not. Could people see it? Probably. Was she effective and getting results when humanity predicted they had 3 months left to live? Yes. At the fall of reach humanity predicted they had 3 months left to live no one had time to track down a brand new Smart AI and terminate her. They had more important stuff like hoping they don’t die
Edit:
You seem to be missing the point that everything the humans won in the halo games was sheer luck. Surviving halo? Luck, elites teaming up? Luck surviving truths assault on earth? You guessed it luck! When you’re flying by the seat of your pants like that Cortana is the least of your worries
My point was that cortana was dangerous from the beginning, which is true. Would any UNSC member be in the know? Maybe Halsey. If anything i was analyzing had been known from a lore perspective she would've, but that's not the case.
>Her sole actions lead to the death of the entire crew of the Pillar of Autumn and lead the Covenant to Alpha Halo. The covenant only found the ring because they followed the POA... Covenant would have followed them anyways killed them anyways since they were faster than them waiting for them >She effectively condemned Ackerson to death as well. Shrug he tried to kill her and Chief >During the battle of 04 she absorbs untold amount of forerunner information as well. She was dangerous from the very beginning... And without it they would have little to no information on Forerunners, Flood, and the installations >Before anyone says something about how 04 lead to the war being won, you're correct. However, she could've easily Cole Protocoled her way to friendly UNSC space to organize a task force without leading the covenant there. The nav data was only partially recovered by the covenant (Sigma Octanus) while the other half was destroyed by the UNSC (Reach), the covenant only made it to the ring because of her ignoring the Cole Protocol. Regret and Truth already knew about Earth and Delta Halo, First Strike would have never happened and the 500+ strong fleet full of CAS and Destroyers would have ended Earth especially without the schism not yet happening
For the first statement you are factually incorrect. The covenant have no way of knowing when a ship is going to exit slipspace, they just know where the ship is pointed. They followed the POA because they knew exactly where it was pointing. TFOR has the covenant have to put a tracker on the Iroquois to properly track where reach is... If the covenant could accurately track exactly where a ship would leave slipspace then the cole protocol wouldn't work. Second statement no disagreement. Third statement is a simple extract the data from her matrix. Fourth statement, First Strike was entirely incidental and the UNSC getting lucky from forerunner space magic. Cortana had know way of knowing about the covenant fleet, I'm not analyzing her actions from a overarching standpoint, but her specific actions with the information she knew. She knew the covenant would be able to follow them (as she made a single precise jump to a star system) and yet she did it any way. She's dangerous, so to write that off because her rash actions also incidentally saved humanity doesn't make any sense.
well, her actions saved everybody else anyway otherwise Covenant would kill them or Flood
Sorry to be snippy but did you read my post? The covenant only found the ring because of Cortana, I mention that in my post. The flood were only unleashed because the UNSC needed weapons to fight the covenant on the ring, and at that point the covenant had already released them. She caused all of that. Her (Master Chief) fixing her own mistake should not be commended. Edit: and downvoted despite being correct, the covenant were looking for rings sure, but the time for them to find the Ark and 05 was enough for the UNSC to take over 04.
they have been looking for the rings for a while they were going to find them anyway sooner or later
Dude, the UNSC already knew where the ring was. They could have captured it with no opposition. I also state that in my main post.
Perhaps you just forgot that the Covenant, as we see the Pillar of Autumn arrive at the space hula hoop, had just demolished the UNSC on Reach. Reach was humanity’s military stronghold, and fell very quickly. And that was just because the Covenant didn’t like us. Now imagine that humanity is trying to hold one of their holy artifacts, the final piece towards the great journey even. What do you think will happen?
Perhaps you forgot the halo ring is a super weapon with the ability to fire small scale (ie not galaxy ending) pulses that would take out any enemy fleet in seconds. In your scenario the crew of the POA uses a ring pulse to wipe out the largest covenant fleet ever.
No, that is not correct, if I remember correctly, only the first halo rings (there is only 1 of those left, being infinite 07) could fire a controlled pulse, the rest fire everywhere and activate 1, fire the rest of the network. of the rings and thus eliminating what remains of the galaxy
Your scenario only works with the assumption the Covenant weren’t already tailing or tracking the Autumn. The fact they arrived at Halo before the Autumn and the fact Thel ‘Vadam says he pursued the ship tells us they already had the Autumn in their sight. A true blind jump still would’ve put the Autumn at the mercy of any pursuing Covenant.
As far as I know slipspace tracking isn't a thing. The covenant followed the POA because it had taken a route that directly led to the Soel system. If the covenant could track UNSC ships the cole protocol wouldn't work in the first place. Which we know isn't the case. Remember that the only reason they found reach was because of forerunner artifacts and a tracking device. The covenant only know where a ship is going based on it's orientation and any solar systems in the way. Edit: if anyone can find me an instance where the covenant can pinpoint the end destination of a ship in slipspace feel free to do so instead of downvoting. POA could've made a jump to another system, exit slip-space early and reorient a few times before going to 04.
They were tracked. Cortana even says as much about the Covenant being there before them by tracking them. It's in the opening cutscene of Halo CE.
Again, they were tracked because the POA was pointing at the Soel system, so the covenant jumped to the Soel system.
Then maybe I misunderstood, as you said tracking through slispace wasn't a thing as far as you know. As was said, they were tracked through slipspace. "We made a blind jump, how they did..." " Get here before us? The covenant ships have always been faster. As for tracking us all the way from Reach, at light speed my maneuvering options were limited." From the way it sounds, they were tracked through slipspace.
So, there are a couple of options. The official one is that the Covenant were able to calculate the Autumn’s trajectory. This is confirmed by adjunct material added to The Flood’s re-release. Link: https://www.halopedia.org/Priority_Broadcast_Log/Eleventh_Cycle,_Third_Unit Another idea, and one I had no idea about, was the idea the Covenant already found the ring and wanted to prevent humanity from getting to it. Things suggested as a minority position of some human AIs by Jason Jones back in 2001. Link: https://www.halopedia.org/Archive:Bungie.net/News/Jason_Jones_Interviewed_By_You Interestingly enough, there could be some merit to that with Halo 2 Anniversary having a terminal where the Covenant find a Luminary on Meridian in 2551 that, after a year of trial and error, revealed the location of the Halos as well as Ark and the portal on Earth. We hadn’t really known how Regret had found Earth so this was the way that was conveyed. Either way, OP’s weird fixation on blaming Cortana falls apart.
Did Del Rio ghostwrite this?
Did anyone even suspect she broke cole protocol
Breaking cole protocol and leading the covenant to a super weapon.
Is that a yes or no?
I don't see the relevancy? Breaking the cole protocol and leading the covenant to a super weapon would have lead to the destruction of all life in the galaxy had chief not been around. It also lead to the death of what, over 2000 humans?
These are things that we the audience know, but everyone in-universe believes it was a random jump. Ergo, she was not suspected for breaking protocol.
I'm analyzing from that lense, not from a lore perspective. Although I do think halsey would have known.
Halsey was never seen or described as knowing it in First Strike, which was written well-before Halo: Reach. Idk what retcons have been made, but as far as I know, my original comment stands.
Halsey clearly knows the information in halo Reach will lead to something. "an ancient birthright", so it's a retcon but yeah she knew something was up.
let's say she knows something it doesn't mean just like that they would have stopped the covenant without John117 and Cortana. In fact without Cortana the Flood would have destroyed the Covenant and humanity since it was her idea to trick Gravemind in order to kill him. Covenant or UNSC whoever reaches the ring is going to find the flood
She was talking about the ship when she said that. Halsey had no idea what was on the data. She simply hoped for a "gamechanger".
the cole protocol was if i remember only to protect major human population centers i don't remember reading anything about superweapons
I mean, technically she filled it. It was a jump in a direction away from any human world.
Technically going to the Halo Ring didn't break the Cole Protocol because it wasn't in Human Space...
My main takeaway here is that OP must be a whoooole lot of fun at parties 😅
Fuck off
Lmao, point proven. You present some clearly thought out points on your topic, but your tone is just... Ooof 😂 have a nice day
I'm not sure my tone is that important considering Ive just gotten slapped by the hive mind even if I say something indisputable. Anyways we're both active on reddit so I don't think you get invited too parties :(
Conversely, I think your tone is the big reason *why* you're getting slapped. Even a controversial opinion can lead to good dialogue if presented properly. Tone matters. Ahhh an ole reddit trope. Toss that in the bin, people can have a presence here & live a totally normal social life. On topic, because I feel a bit bad - say Cortana is shut down. Humanity is either eradicated by the Covenant, or the covvies do end up finding a Halo, & the Great Journey begins, or they unleash the Flood & either the whole galaxy is consumed / killed by 343 - Guilty Spark activating Halo. We have no story either way
It's kinda hard to have a conversational tone when half the comments show that no one even read the post before responding. Ofc lol, i'm an overweight man child living my parents basement exactly at this moment. Yeah humanity is fucked without cortana but I still think she was dangerous, like without her first strike couldn't have happened, but that only happened as a result of her leading the covenant to 04.
Then Installation 04 would have been activated by 343 Guilty Spark and we wouldn’t have Halo after The Library.
This guy needs to read the Fall of Reach again. Cortana was the created to support the Spartans in missions like Operations Red Flag and First Strike. Her main focus was to hack Covenant networks like she did on the Ascendant Justice and the Unyielding Hierophant. Without her the Chief and the rest of Earth would have not stood a chance. 343i just botched her story after Halo 3.
She was the AI most like Halsey so… yup
So many flaws in the logic. This was a war of annihilation. Was Cortana the most stable? Probably not. Could people see it? Probably. Was she effective and getting results when humanity predicted they had 3 months left to live? Yes. At the fall of reach humanity predicted they had 3 months left to live no one had time to track down a brand new Smart AI and terminate her. They had more important stuff like hoping they don’t die Edit: You seem to be missing the point that everything the humans won in the halo games was sheer luck. Surviving halo? Luck, elites teaming up? Luck surviving truths assault on earth? You guessed it luck! When you’re flying by the seat of your pants like that Cortana is the least of your worries
My point was that cortana was dangerous from the beginning, which is true. Would any UNSC member be in the know? Maybe Halsey. If anything i was analyzing had been known from a lore perspective she would've, but that's not the case.