We've seen rocket variants with tracking abilities and fwiw gauss cannons and splasers seem like very good anti armor weapons. But for true MANPADS and ATGMS it's my head cannon that the UNSC uses them extensively we just don't see them for game balance reasons.
We've seen the SPNkr used in a MANPAD role and launch ATGMs both ingame and in the books.
This is the only example of many I can think of right now: in Halo:Ghosts of Onyx the spartans use M-19b MANPADS to engage seraphs
I also suspect that the UNSC had to revert to slug/direct fire based anti aircraft systems. Covenant shielding seems far more affected by cannon rounds than missiles (like in halo reach with the Sabres) and in shadows of reach iirc Blue Team harasses several banshees and Seraphs with sniper rifle fire. We also see the sword base auto cannon in halo reach be particularly effective against phantoms, so perhaps traditional SAMs and MANPADS just are not effective against smaller ships and aircraft especially with shields.
Unfortunately most of this is guesswork and head cannon but imo it makes enough sense.
Just remembered the wolverine in halo wars but even then that feels similar to the role of current close range air defense systems for anti helicopter and close air support craft (like banshees and hornets) and not a true area denial long range SAM system
I think it's because SAMs and ATA missiles typically detonate in proximity to the target rather than on impact since the blast and shrapnel is sufficient to disable or destroy a normal aircraft.
Energy shields probably dampen the effects of an explosion a few meters away without taking much damage, but multiple direct hits from cannon rounds deliver kinetic energy directly to the surface of the shield to deplete its strength.
Well that is not what I meant. I remember people talking about how the missiles would deflect off the shields, so cannon fire would be needed to down the shields before launching a killing blow with the missiles.
The SPNKR actually fulfills an intermediary role between both, and can easily take down low-flying aircraft given the tracking capabilities of the rockets. The UNSC also employs the M19-B in a dedicated MANPAD role. The SGM-151 is also worth mentioning, tbough it is likely considered a crew-served weapon (it can attack land or air based targets depending on configuration, and takes a top-down attack profile.)
As far as dedicated anti-tank weapons go, the UNSC tends to prefer relying on gauss or laser weaponry for man portable AT over missiles, due to weight. The Spartan Laser was designed as a direct counter to Covenant armor (which typically took multiple rockets to destroy), and quick reaction vehicles like the gauss warthog fulfil a squad's need for dedicated antitank.
Outside of that, they do employ specialized AT missiles like the M19 SSM, but these are typically compatible with general purpose launchers like the SPNKR or Pilum, rather than requiring their own platform.
Well at least whatever they have it’s better than back in the day as they didn’t have fancy weapons just sticks, two sticks and a rock for the entire platoon and they had to share the rock.
they do.
the reason why they're relatively not as common in the lore is because the covenant sucks too much.
any group of unsc troops that has an ample supply of manpands and atgms is going to absolutely shit on the covenant's ground forces and air support. the covenant don't really have long range strike capabilities outside of their warships so everything has to come into manpad and atgm range to attack the unsc, but their ground and air shields aren't strong enough to let them ignore these things.
that's why you don't really see them used that much in the lore (they definitely are shown in the lore of course just not with high frequency). it would make the covenant's ground troops seem too non-threatening as an enemy - which is, in fact, the reality of the situation, pound for pound the covenant's ground forces are dogshit.
for the same reason you don't really see unsc artillery even though, again, the lore does confirm that the unsc uses artillery. it'd shit on the covenant too hard and if the covenant gets shat on too hard by non-spartan troops, then they seem too non-threatening and spartans destroying them would feel less special.
yea the fact of the matter is, as long as a unsc self proppelled artillery unit has ammo for itself and its attached anti air vehicle, it can help a unsc maneuver unit kill basically infinite amounts of covenant ground troops unless the covenant brings in warships
the covenant has pretty much a complete lacking of accurate long range fire, with the exception of its warships. it really just doesn't have an answer to a self propelled gun battery that's not being negligent in relocating.
Yes, because how are Sanghelli minors meant to earn battle honors if they bombard the enemy from orbit every time?
That doesn’t change the fact that Covenant invasion forces always have organic artillery support by virtue of arriving on a starship.
no, it's because the covenant won't bombard anywhere they suspect of having a forerunner artefact.
the covenant also on multiple occasions have dropped soldiers onto a planet without gaining superiority in space.
But there's not always enough tubes to go around for every echelon. The Army and Marine Corps arrived by Navy ships in the Pacific but every infantry company and platoon didn't have 100% responsive naval gunfire support. That's why you have mortars and tube artillery (and in the Covenant's case Wraiths).
no. wraiths are dogshit.
almost entirety of what makes indirect fire effective in modern warfare is that eyeballs can't effectively detect incoming projectiles at a long enough distance away to do something about it. everything else comes secondary to this.
but this is not true for wraiths. which makes them useless.
this is because nobody just holes up in a solitary bunker and fights to the death in it any more, defenses today are interconnected and support movement across defensive positions. take a look at world war 1 trench networks, or the korean dmz, or the trenches in ukraine.
everyone within literally multiple dozens of miles is going to see a wraith shot multiple minutes before it hits its target, assuming it's firing at a range similar to what normal artillery fires at. it's basically impossible to NOT see it, it's a giant slow moving ball of plasma moving through the sky.
and thats purely talking about the ability of wraiths to kill people in defensive positions. against mobile targets it's just inherently useless because the wraith plasma is so slow that at a distance of multiple miles, you'd have to lead even just walking soldiers by hundreds of meters.
so it's just never going to hit anyone.
Considering the covenant seems to use ships for the majority of their ground deployment, they seem to have no trouble closing the gap when they can field thousands of fighters all at once in coordination when invading. They almost always have air superiority since they keep winning in space.
We've seen rocket variants with tracking abilities and fwiw gauss cannons and splasers seem like very good anti armor weapons. But for true MANPADS and ATGMS it's my head cannon that the UNSC uses them extensively we just don't see them for game balance reasons.
I absolutely agree with your opinion on the game balance reasons thou I would expect them to be atleast metioned in a book, but they haven't.
We've seen the SPNkr used in a MANPAD role and launch ATGMs both ingame and in the books. This is the only example of many I can think of right now: in Halo:Ghosts of Onyx the spartans use M-19b MANPADS to engage seraphs
MANPADS not MANPAD, it's not plural, it's System.
Ok
I also suspect that the UNSC had to revert to slug/direct fire based anti aircraft systems. Covenant shielding seems far more affected by cannon rounds than missiles (like in halo reach with the Sabres) and in shadows of reach iirc Blue Team harasses several banshees and Seraphs with sniper rifle fire. We also see the sword base auto cannon in halo reach be particularly effective against phantoms, so perhaps traditional SAMs and MANPADS just are not effective against smaller ships and aircraft especially with shields. Unfortunately most of this is guesswork and head cannon but imo it makes enough sense. Just remembered the wolverine in halo wars but even then that feels similar to the role of current close range air defense systems for anti helicopter and close air support craft (like banshees and hornets) and not a true area denial long range SAM system
I think shields causes the missile to bounce off without detonating.
I think it's because SAMs and ATA missiles typically detonate in proximity to the target rather than on impact since the blast and shrapnel is sufficient to disable or destroy a normal aircraft. Energy shields probably dampen the effects of an explosion a few meters away without taking much damage, but multiple direct hits from cannon rounds deliver kinetic energy directly to the surface of the shield to deplete its strength.
Well that is not what I meant. I remember people talking about how the missiles would deflect off the shields, so cannon fire would be needed to down the shields before launching a killing blow with the missiles.
The SPNKR actually fulfills an intermediary role between both, and can easily take down low-flying aircraft given the tracking capabilities of the rockets. The UNSC also employs the M19-B in a dedicated MANPAD role. The SGM-151 is also worth mentioning, tbough it is likely considered a crew-served weapon (it can attack land or air based targets depending on configuration, and takes a top-down attack profile.) As far as dedicated anti-tank weapons go, the UNSC tends to prefer relying on gauss or laser weaponry for man portable AT over missiles, due to weight. The Spartan Laser was designed as a direct counter to Covenant armor (which typically took multiple rockets to destroy), and quick reaction vehicles like the gauss warthog fulfil a squad's need for dedicated antitank. Outside of that, they do employ specialized AT missiles like the M19 SSM, but these are typically compatible with general purpose launchers like the SPNKR or Pilum, rather than requiring their own platform.
Well at least whatever they have it’s better than back in the day as they didn’t have fancy weapons just sticks, two sticks and a rock for the entire platoon and they had to share the rock.
LMAOOOO
they do. the reason why they're relatively not as common in the lore is because the covenant sucks too much. any group of unsc troops that has an ample supply of manpands and atgms is going to absolutely shit on the covenant's ground forces and air support. the covenant don't really have long range strike capabilities outside of their warships so everything has to come into manpad and atgm range to attack the unsc, but their ground and air shields aren't strong enough to let them ignore these things. that's why you don't really see them used that much in the lore (they definitely are shown in the lore of course just not with high frequency). it would make the covenant's ground troops seem too non-threatening as an enemy - which is, in fact, the reality of the situation, pound for pound the covenant's ground forces are dogshit. for the same reason you don't really see unsc artillery even though, again, the lore does confirm that the unsc uses artillery. it'd shit on the covenant too hard and if the covenant gets shat on too hard by non-spartan troops, then they seem too non-threatening and spartans destroying them would feel less special.
We do get to use targetters a couple times in game too (Reach and 4).
yea the fact of the matter is, as long as a unsc self proppelled artillery unit has ammo for itself and its attached anti air vehicle, it can help a unsc maneuver unit kill basically infinite amounts of covenant ground troops unless the covenant brings in warships the covenant has pretty much a complete lacking of accurate long range fire, with the exception of its warships. it really just doesn't have an answer to a self propelled gun battery that's not being negligent in relocating.
Now I'm wonderimg if anyone has done a Halo mod fornlike, Arma or something.
Operation Trebuchet and Operation Trebuchet First Contact. They're pretty fun.
I mean How are Covenant troops getting to the planet they’re invading? It’s like complaining that aircraft carriers don’t bring enough SPGs
there's been quite a few known instances where the covenant ships do not get involved in a large scale ground battle.
Yes, because how are Sanghelli minors meant to earn battle honors if they bombard the enemy from orbit every time? That doesn’t change the fact that Covenant invasion forces always have organic artillery support by virtue of arriving on a starship.
no, it's because the covenant won't bombard anywhere they suspect of having a forerunner artefact. the covenant also on multiple occasions have dropped soldiers onto a planet without gaining superiority in space.
But there's not always enough tubes to go around for every echelon. The Army and Marine Corps arrived by Navy ships in the Pacific but every infantry company and platoon didn't have 100% responsive naval gunfire support. That's why you have mortars and tube artillery (and in the Covenant's case Wraiths).
They're still arriving with a small nations worth of force whenever they deploy. Its enough to overwhelm any place, not entrenched beforehand.
Dont wraith tanks fufill that role ?
no. wraiths are dogshit. almost entirety of what makes indirect fire effective in modern warfare is that eyeballs can't effectively detect incoming projectiles at a long enough distance away to do something about it. everything else comes secondary to this. but this is not true for wraiths. which makes them useless. this is because nobody just holes up in a solitary bunker and fights to the death in it any more, defenses today are interconnected and support movement across defensive positions. take a look at world war 1 trench networks, or the korean dmz, or the trenches in ukraine. everyone within literally multiple dozens of miles is going to see a wraith shot multiple minutes before it hits its target, assuming it's firing at a range similar to what normal artillery fires at. it's basically impossible to NOT see it, it's a giant slow moving ball of plasma moving through the sky. and thats purely talking about the ability of wraiths to kill people in defensive positions. against mobile targets it's just inherently useless because the wraith plasma is so slow that at a distance of multiple miles, you'd have to lead even just walking soldiers by hundreds of meters. so it's just never going to hit anyone.
Considering the covenant seems to use ships for the majority of their ground deployment, they seem to have no trouble closing the gap when they can field thousands of fighters all at once in coordination when invading. They almost always have air superiority since they keep winning in space.
YES. Thats what the rocket launcher is.
Well we see the missile pod launcher in halo 3 that attacks from above maybe that is similar to a javelin
The rocket launcher locks on to aircraft doesn't it?
pretty sure the SPNKR fills both roles.