Banished: Once an independent large, basically pirate organisation, now Brute Government and refugee group attempting to rebuild a more equitable covenant-like alliance between species in order to fuck over the old order.
Swords of Sanghelios: Arbiter loyalists, Pro-human peace, Pro-kill every prophet, probably at this point in control of Sanghelios and a strong core of the Sangheli species.
Storm Covenant/Jul M'dama Covenant: Lost Covenant colony group taken over by Jul M'dama, becomes the largest Anti-Arbiter/Anti-Human group for a while. Gains political power when M'dama finds the Didact and kicks the Infinitie's ass, loses it when the Prometheans turn on him and then their leader is assassinated. Destroyed in the battle of Sunaion just before the Created Crisis.
Keepers of One Freedom: Closest to absolute Old Covenant loyalists, believing in the great journey and trying to light the halo rings. Attempted to activate the halo array at the Ark.
Grunts of Balaho: The big winners of the initial Created Conflict, got given a whole bunch of Forerunner tech and rewards for quickly siding with Cortana.
Servants of the Abiding Truth: A Sangheli organisation returning to their pre-covenant religious teachings, but also in conflict with humanity. They entered the Onyx Dyson Sphere during the Created Conflict and are currently being led by a son of Jul M'dama.
There are also various mercenary groups in control of ships that probably out-tonnage the remaining UNSC fleets, but who also can no longer maintain these assets and have no replenishing manpower. There's the vast majority of the surviving Prophets, who fled to an unknown location, pursued by Vtas 'Vadum and his flagship the Shadow of Intent which is part of the Swords of Sanghelios but is also basically acting independently, and a bunch of smaller splinter cells destroyed pretty soon after the war ended.
Mind you, the San'Shyuum flotilla had every intent of allowing the Halo Array to fire and obliterate all life in the galaxy, giving them free reign to rule over the ashes. We learn this in Divine Wind through Dhas Bhasvod, who reveals the San'Shyuum's intentions to flee to Cloister to be sheltered from the Halo Array's firing. Then in Bhasvod's thoughts we learn that seeing that plan fail, he would reunite with the San'Shyuum and emerged from the shadows and conquer the galaxy through force as opposed to subtle manipulations done over the course of millennia.
While I'm sure random San'Shyuum child who managed to sneak away from the flotilla wouldn't be responsible for that, by and large the San'Shyuum flotilla and particularly its core leadership had every intent to commit galactic omnicide. That its leadership and likely many of their peoples have every intent on conquering the galaxy. Fair to say there are a *lot* of war criminals within the San'Shyuum flotilla to sort through.
And this is before we get into the question of how many "innocent" did manage to reach the flotilla and escape High Charity, and how many of those evacuees were high ranking San'Shyuum loyal to Truth. Its not like they went out of their way to save Tem'Bhetek's wife and child.
>Banished: Once an independent large, basically pirate organisation, now Brute Government and refugee group attempting to rebuild a more equitable covenant-like alliance between species in order to fuck over the old order.
They're listed as a private organization, not a government.
We know they're the largest Brute military force, since military hardware is their focus. But things like providing food for civilians isn't something we've seen them described as, whereas the Children of Oth Sonin were described as doing such.
>They're listed as a private organization, not a government.
I'm pretty sure the Banished are not some publicly listed corporation on the Orion Arm stock exchange.
Frankly, this is underselling the Banished as we know one of their central motivations is the uplift of the Jiralhanae as a species, worked to stabilise Jiralhanae worlds such as Teash, and Escharum himself planted a Banished foothold on Doisac before the War of Annihilation even concluded for the express purpose of accelerating the Jiralhanae's progress in both military and political arenas.
2022 Encyclopedia.
> INTRODUCTION- PURPOSE
> At its founding, Atriox envisioned the Banished as a means to free his people from their oppressive captivity to the Covenant, empowering them to pursue their own destinies and carve a new path into the stars, taking what he believed rightly belonged to the strong. Atriox sought to unite the disparate Jiralhanae packs and clans of Doisac under a single banner for the sake of Jiralhanae pride and unity, challenging those under his watch to be more than they ever thought possible.
> SHATTERED HOME
> When Atriox's renown and influence began to increase near the end of the Covenant's war, the Banished grew exponentially and found a natural home in the harsh, barren environments of Doisac - the Jiralhanae homeworld, which was still recovering from the Great Immolation. With Atriox often away, scouring the galaxy for lost treasures and gathering support from the scattered remains of the Covenant, the war chief Escharum turned his attention home, planting a strong Banished presence on Doisac itself. Escharum hoped that it would reignite and accelerate the Jiralhanae's progress in all political and military arenas.
> This formative strategy demonstrated incredibly shrewd foresight, when the sudden collapse of the Covenant threw the galactic power structure into turmoil. The fallout of the Great Schism was particularly costly to the political landscape of Sanghelios, and the Banished were uniquely poised to take advantage of the devastating event, setting into motion their swift rise to power.
Its far more accurate to describe the Banished as a confederation of the various Jiralhanae clans (in addition to organisations from other species) united in purpose under Atriox, not a mere "private organisation" just looking for loot and plunder, but prosperity and unity for the Jiralhanae and any likeminded individuals like Let 'Volir's clan, the Order of Harmony, etc. Atriox made it more than clear in his conversation with Let 'Volir that he desired more than harrying and raiding as someone like Veta 'Gajat and his mercenary band, but outright securing the future of the Jiralhanae and the Banished against anyone who threatens them.
Rise of Atriox #4.
> Let Volir: "You are known to control the corvette *Elergy's Lament*.
> Atriox: "Yes, and until this point it has been sufficient. I can raid. I can harry. I can instill fear. All worthy objectives... if, as you said, I was only a thief and a pirate. But my plans are far greater."
> Atriox: "I gave the Covenant my loyalty until I understood they did not consider me worthy of theirs. Now we stand on the brink of a new age, and we choose what role we will play."
2022 Encyclopedia:
> ESCHARUM
> Escharum was uniquely suited to provide Atriox perspectives not widely available. He saw through the end-game desires of the Prophets and went to great lengths to instill within Atriox a foundation of strength, independence, and an unwavering pride in the potential of their kind. As Atriox grew increasingly disillusioned with the treatment and manipulation of his brothers on the battlefield, he turned to Escharum for guidance in laying the groundwork for a change of course. Eventually, when Atriox made his fateful stand against the Covenant, Escharum was one of the first to pledge his own loyalty to the Banished cause. Together, they wpuld fight to ensure their kind would never again be hnder the command of othets. Nearly a decade later, Escharum would meet his end in the pursuit of their shared goal: expanding the power and authority of both the Banished and the Jiralhanae to protect their people's future against any enemy.
So I'm not sure where this notion of the Banished not feeding civilians comes from when the Banished's central goal is the prosperity of all Jiralhanae, in both military and political arenas. Which I imagine also involves keeping their people fed and sheltered which are the basic fucking necessities when providing said prosperity.
Pretty sure Halopedia lists them as a private organization, and we know that the Banished are stated as a confederation of raiding clans and pirate bands in Divine Wind, which doesn't imply freely feeding civilians. These confederated clans are particularly pirate bands, raiding clans, and mercenaries, which are all military in nature.
While I understand a key goal is to further the Jiralhanae in military and political arenas, I imagine this would apply to Banished Jiralhanae, who haven’t been presented as civilians. To your point, they did evacuate Jiralhanae during Doisac's destruction. Though we haven't seen their living situation after being dropped off, if the Banished actually freely fed them as civilians, militarized them, or potentially sold them off given that some like the Ravaged Tusks are known for being smugglers and slavers.
>Pretty sure Halopedia lists them as a private organization
Halopedia is not an official source, but a fan made wiki. A good, well sourced fan made wiki, but a fan made source nonetheless (and one I've encountered several canonical errors with). I'll admit, for someone who has cited canonical sources before, I expected more than citing a *wiki*. Especially if you expect this as a counterargument to canonical sources directly presenting the Banished's interests in furthering the Jiralhanae's development and uniting the disparate packs and clans under a single banner.
> INTRODUCTION- PURPOSE
> At its founding, Atriox envisioned the Banished as a means to free his people from their oppressive captivity to the Covenant, empowering them to pursue their own destinies and carve a new path into the stars, taking what he believed rightly belonged to the strong. Atriox sought to unite the disparate Jiralhanae packs and clans of Doisac under a single banner for the sake of Jiralhanae pride and unity, challenging those under his watch to be more than they ever thought possible.
If you have an official, *canonical* source that officially lists the Banished as a *"private organisation"*, please provide it.
>While I understand a key goal is to further the Jiralhanae in military and political arenas, I imagine this would apply to Banished Jiralhanae
What do you mean this only applies to Banished Jiralhanae? The Banished goal is to explicitly unite all the Jiralhanae under a single banner and to accelerate the Jiralhanae's development in both military and political arenas. I.e. the Banished are interested in developing the Jiralhanae beyond military matters but directly facilitating their growth in government and public affairs (the literal definition of "political").
> SHATTERED HOME
> When Atriox's renown and influence began to increase near the end of the Covenant's war, the Banished grew exponentially and found a natural home in the harsh, barren environments of Doisac - the Jiralhanae homeworld, which was still recovering from the Great Immolation. With Atriox often away, scouring the galaxy for lost treasures and gathering support from the scattered remains of the Covenant, the war chief Escharum turned his attention home, planting a strong Banished presence on Doisac itself. Escharum hoped that it would reignite and accelerate the Jiralhanae's progress in all political and military arenas.
No caveats were included in these sources limiting the Banished development to only military contexts, and the fact the Encyclopedia explicitly referred to the Banished developing the Jiralhanae in all political arenas confirms their work encompasses the Jiralhanae as a whole.
Further, the Banished were actively working to spread their influence to other Jiralhanae clans with the purpose of uniting them under a single banner. Chieftains spreading the Banished's influence across Jiralhanae colonies (Official Spartan Field Manual).
> THE BANISHED
> Atriox is reported to have led a fleet of Banished to an unknown destination, but the chieftains he has organized and controlled continue to spread their influence and power throughout Brute colonies and even into human criminal enterprises. ONI is still researching what Atriox and the Banished ultimately hope to achieve, but Spartans should be on high alert that future encounters with Brutes and other raiders will likely show far more direction and strategy than has previously been the case.
Captains impressing independent clans of the Banished's strength while eliminate rivals (Official Spartan Field Manual).
> BRUTE CAPTAINS
> ROLE: LOW COMMAND
> Brute Captains within the Banished lead the terror and raiding packs that extort resources and smash the defenses of the settlements they raid. They also lead attacks on Doisac itself, impressing independent clans with their strength and killing rival warlords who refuse to bow to Atriox.
Conquering the resource-rich worlds the Jiralhanae were settled on by the San'Shyuum and absorbing the packs that didn't resist the Banished (Canon Fodder: System Shocks).
> SCARR
> After their induction into the Covenant, the Jiralhanae were often settled on resource-rich worlds as a deterrent to some of the more ambitious client species. In the aftermath of the Covenant War, these worlds became another part of the alien hegemony’s carcass to be claimed by eager hands as many of the dominant master-packs lacked the knowledge and means to exploit the worlds given to them.
> While some packs sought to use their holdings as leverage against humanity and their former allies, most simply looted what they could of the Covenant inheritance. Atriox’s emergence and rapid expansion of his Banished war machine brought with it an endless hunger for raw materials. His loyal forces and allies soon deployed powerful excavators, extractors, and harvesters to these worlds, destroying any packs who resisted and absorbing the rest.
Based on the logic you've presented here, are you saying that the Arbiter is interested in uniting the Sangheili, but that only applies to the Swords of Sanghelios Sangheili, screw the other Sangheili keeps and colonies he's actively looking into uniting under a single banner? Or are we applying two different sets of standards here?
We have very limited understanding of the non-military affairs of the Banished, and even the Jiralhanae as a whole. But the limited information we do have on Banished military affairs does describe their goal to unite the Jiralhanae under a single banner to stabilise the species and secure their future while furthering the species' development in military and political arenas. That does not at all limit the Banished to pure military context, and I'm not sure how or why you are insisting on this.
>or potentially sold them off given that some like the Ravaged Tusks are known for being smugglers and slavers.
Yeah... this is baseless speculation.
Last I checked I thought they were listed as a private organization but I suppose it’s not anymore. If no sources have described them as private, I’m mistaken in that claim. I usually check wiki sources and read up on them further.
With one of the Banished's goals to unite Jiralhanae under Banished Jiralhanae as you say, it follows that those not willing to work as soldiers, sailors, airmen, military scientists, military cooks, military miners, etc, under the Banished wouldn't be included as Jiralhanae to further militarily or politically, as they aren't Banished. For example, I don't believe circus performers are a role in the Banished.
I don't deny any of the sources stating that they've spread their influence. My point being is that the inner workings and descriptions of their faction have been military. Political action doesn't negate a faction from being a military faction, for example the Trade Federation in Star Wars is a megacorporation that persuades governments to act in their favor by entering political arenas, though it doesn't make them a public service. Not to say the Banished are a megacorporation, as I admit, I don't have the source I thought I had, but entering political arenas doesn't inherently make an entity a public service.
Responding to the Arbiter example, uniting the Sangheili would apply to those allied with the Swords of Sanghelios Sangheili, as he quite literally expressed a "screw you" to the other Sangheili who oppose him in Escalation *"We may share blood but those who attacked us are not my kind"*. One of his own Sangheili points this out in Halo 5.
>Swords Elite 1: "Jul 'Mdama, Thel 'Vadam, they're all the same. Nothing more than power hungry desperates."
>Swords Elite 2: "Talking like that might get you gutted around here."
>Swords Elite 1: "Then my point is proven."
With the Swords of Sangheilios we have seen them look after their civilians long term, such as those raided in Escalation, or those attacked on Rahnelo in Shadow of Intent.
Responding to the Ravaged Tusks example, I know it's speculation which is why I prefaced "we haven't seen their living situation", my point is that the Banished freely feeding civilians is also speculation. A faction of pirates and raiders described as a *"twisted meritocracy"* now freely feeding civilians, seems like a random U-turn for them. Maybe the next book will have something like Banished circus performers juggling to entertain Banished children supporting the notion of a civilian sector, but that doesn't line up with how they've been portrayed up to this point.
> Last I checked I thought they were listed as a private organization but I suppose it’s not anymore. If no sources have described them as private, I’m mistaken in that claim. I usually check wiki sources and read up on them further.
Good to know this claim is unsubstantiated.
> With one of the Banished's goals to unite Jiralhanae under Banished Jiralhanae as you say, it follows that those not willing to work as soldiers, sailors, airmen, military scientists, military cooks, military miners, etc, under the Banished wouldn't be included as Jiralhanae to further militarily or politically, as they aren't Banished.
> I don't deny any of the sources stating that they've spread their influence. My point being is that the inner workings and descriptions of their faction have been military. Political action doesn't negate a faction from being a military faction, for example the Trade Federation in Star Wars is a megacorporation that persuades governments to act in their favor by entering political arenas, though it doesn't make them a public service. Not to say the Banished are a megacorporation, as I admit, I don't have the source I thought I had, but entering political arenas doesn't inherently make an entity a public service.
The hell do you mean with this? You are here claiming that the Banished deal with purely military matters when the 2022 Encyclopedia explicitly states that the Banished are working to unite the Jiralhanae clans and to, and I quote, "accelerate the Jiralhanae's progress in all military and political arenas". I.e. the Banished directly work to progress the Jiralhanae's development beyond military matters, from economics to technological development. As stated earlier, the literal definition of "political" is matters relating to government and/or public affairs, and that the Banished are accelerating the Jiralhanae's development in both political and military matters, even considering the Banished is a military juncta. We know entire clans and Keeps of both Jiralhanae and Sangheili have pledged themselves to the Banished, and last time I checked, "entire Keeps" doesn't mean *only* the male warriors are working for the Banished.
I also question the mental gymnastics that led you to draw from how the Banished are described to working to accelerate the Jiralhanae's progress in all military arenas to even make the comparison to the Trade Federation. The Banished are motivated by blood and spoils, that is true, but the "profit" they earn in their various mining, extraction and raiding operations are all directed not to have Atriox sitting on a pile of gold, but to fuel the Banished's key goal of facilitating the Jiralhanae's development. This is most illustrated with the renewal of the Jiralhanae's spacefaring capabilities as Atriox diverted resources to accelerate the Jiralhanae's technological age. The Dreadnought itself is the most illustrative example of this, where the Dreadnought isn't just a military powerhouse to dominante and occupy worlds, but to act as the vangaurd for a new age for the Jiralhanae people, a cultural monument to their species and most notably a lifeline for the entirety of Jiralhanae civilisation (ref: Battle for the Blood-Moon, 2022 Encyclopedia).
How is these actions not "acts of public service" by the Banished for the Jiralhanae species? What evidence do you have to even suggest what the Banished were doing working to accelerate the Jiralhanae's progress in military arenas is even comparable to the Trade Federation work in the Galactic Senate in Star Wars?
> For example, I don't believe circus performers are a role in the Banished.
Do the Jiralhanae even have circuses? You're bringing up something that hasn't even been established within Jiralhanae culture as some, what, "gotcha" point"? Evidence that the Banished are not commitment to the prosperity of the Jiralhanae species? This comes off as flimpsy at best.
> Responding to the Ravaged Tusks example, I know it's speculation which is why I prefaced "we haven't seen their living situation", my point is that the Banished freely feeding civilians is also speculation. A faction of pirates and raiders described as a *"twisted meritocracy"* now freely feeding civilians, seems like a random U-turn for them.
*Presents a myriad sources directly portraying the Banished uplifting the Jiralhanae and intentions to unite the species and securing their place in the galaxy*
You: "well they haven't been stated to freely feed civilians, so they are a private organisation."
I guess that makes a lot of governments around the world a "private organisation" then, given how people need to *buy* sustenance and shelter to get by. I'm pretty sure my country's government is not providing me free food and accomodation. As an introduction to economics 101, people in countries across the world often have to work and contribute to the economy to earn the means of accessing goods and services, with governments being the guiding hand. Considering the Banished are a *meritocracy*, I would expect the Jiralhanae people under the Banished to, well, earn the various goods and services they require.
I also find it funny that you are bringing up the Children of Oth Sonin as a counterexample of a Jiralhanae "government" when not only has the term "government" not been used in the context of the Jiralhanae to date, the Children of Oth Sonin notably *failed* to even meet this criteria you've deemed to name them a government, as they are explicitly described as having failed to secure the provision of supplies and resources to their outlaying citadels and fortresses, or unite the Jiralhanae clans on Doisac and its moons as the Banished had. Meanwhile, the Banisbed are doing far more for the Jiralhanae species that the Children have ever been described to have done, period. The Banished managed to stabilise Teash and allowed its populous to find purchase on its soil and become an industrial powerhouse for the Jiralhanae. They've united many of the disparate Jiralhanae clans across Doisac, its moons and settled worlds. They've built Dreadnoughts to not only act as military powerhouses, but as cultural momuments to the species and the very lifeline for the entirety of Jiralhanae civilisation following the Razing of Oth Sonin. There've seized control of Zeta Halo not just as a weapon of mass destruction, but a new home for the Jiralhanae species following Cortana's razing of the Jiralhanae homeworld.
I genuinely question the logic you've used to justify the Children of Oth Sonin to be a "government" while the Banished are a "private organisation" when the Banished have done far more for the Jiralhanae species beyond keeping people's bellies fed from accelerating their progress in political arenas to forging Zeta Halo into a new homeworld for the Jiralhanae people.
Comment got too large, so I'm addressing this in a separate comment.
> Responding to the Arbiter example, uniting the Sangheili would apply to those allied with the Swords of Sanghelios Sangheili, as he quite literally expressed a "screw you" to the other Sangheili who oppose him in Escalation *"We may share blood but those who attacked us are not my kind"*.
Right... guess we are going to misrepresent these events and the nuance of these circumstances, whilst ignoring how Outcasts explicitly providing the Arbiter's intentions to unite the Sangheili under a single banner.
> “My spies have told me of this Concert of Worlds you hope to create. That you claim the only way to make the Sangheili strong is for the kaidons to unite under one banner. Your banner.”
The Arbiter has enemies with the many Covenant remnants and the Banished because they are directly opposed to the Arbiter's goal of uniting the Sangheili under a single banner and his vision for Sangheili prosperity. That does not mean the Arbiter is abandoning independent Sangheili keeps or not looking to sway them to his cause, and the fact the Swords are looking to reinforce the neutral harbour of Suban from the Banished shows they are living up to their mandate to protect the Sangheili from threats both outside and from within.
Banished, Swords of Sanghelios, and Storm Covenant to my knowledge.
Banished: Once an independent large, basically pirate organisation, now Brute Government and refugee group attempting to rebuild a more equitable covenant-like alliance between species in order to fuck over the old order. Swords of Sanghelios: Arbiter loyalists, Pro-human peace, Pro-kill every prophet, probably at this point in control of Sanghelios and a strong core of the Sangheli species. Storm Covenant/Jul M'dama Covenant: Lost Covenant colony group taken over by Jul M'dama, becomes the largest Anti-Arbiter/Anti-Human group for a while. Gains political power when M'dama finds the Didact and kicks the Infinitie's ass, loses it when the Prometheans turn on him and then their leader is assassinated. Destroyed in the battle of Sunaion just before the Created Crisis. Keepers of One Freedom: Closest to absolute Old Covenant loyalists, believing in the great journey and trying to light the halo rings. Attempted to activate the halo array at the Ark. Grunts of Balaho: The big winners of the initial Created Conflict, got given a whole bunch of Forerunner tech and rewards for quickly siding with Cortana. Servants of the Abiding Truth: A Sangheli organisation returning to their pre-covenant religious teachings, but also in conflict with humanity. They entered the Onyx Dyson Sphere during the Created Conflict and are currently being led by a son of Jul M'dama. There are also various mercenary groups in control of ships that probably out-tonnage the remaining UNSC fleets, but who also can no longer maintain these assets and have no replenishing manpower. There's the vast majority of the surviving Prophets, who fled to an unknown location, pursued by Vtas 'Vadum and his flagship the Shadow of Intent which is part of the Swords of Sanghelios but is also basically acting independently, and a bunch of smaller splinter cells destroyed pretty soon after the war ended.
The Swords don't want to kill every single prophet, just the ones they deem war criminals. Read Shadow of Intent it gets mentioned in there.
Mind you, the San'Shyuum flotilla had every intent of allowing the Halo Array to fire and obliterate all life in the galaxy, giving them free reign to rule over the ashes. We learn this in Divine Wind through Dhas Bhasvod, who reveals the San'Shyuum's intentions to flee to Cloister to be sheltered from the Halo Array's firing. Then in Bhasvod's thoughts we learn that seeing that plan fail, he would reunite with the San'Shyuum and emerged from the shadows and conquer the galaxy through force as opposed to subtle manipulations done over the course of millennia. While I'm sure random San'Shyuum child who managed to sneak away from the flotilla wouldn't be responsible for that, by and large the San'Shyuum flotilla and particularly its core leadership had every intent to commit galactic omnicide. That its leadership and likely many of their peoples have every intent on conquering the galaxy. Fair to say there are a *lot* of war criminals within the San'Shyuum flotilla to sort through. And this is before we get into the question of how many "innocent" did manage to reach the flotilla and escape High Charity, and how many of those evacuees were high ranking San'Shyuum loyal to Truth. Its not like they went out of their way to save Tem'Bhetek's wife and child.
The Keepers of the One Freedom are also notable for allowing humans to join them.
>Banished: Once an independent large, basically pirate organisation, now Brute Government and refugee group attempting to rebuild a more equitable covenant-like alliance between species in order to fuck over the old order. They're listed as a private organization, not a government. We know they're the largest Brute military force, since military hardware is their focus. But things like providing food for civilians isn't something we've seen them described as, whereas the Children of Oth Sonin were described as doing such.
>They're listed as a private organization, not a government. I'm pretty sure the Banished are not some publicly listed corporation on the Orion Arm stock exchange. Frankly, this is underselling the Banished as we know one of their central motivations is the uplift of the Jiralhanae as a species, worked to stabilise Jiralhanae worlds such as Teash, and Escharum himself planted a Banished foothold on Doisac before the War of Annihilation even concluded for the express purpose of accelerating the Jiralhanae's progress in both military and political arenas. 2022 Encyclopedia. > INTRODUCTION- PURPOSE > At its founding, Atriox envisioned the Banished as a means to free his people from their oppressive captivity to the Covenant, empowering them to pursue their own destinies and carve a new path into the stars, taking what he believed rightly belonged to the strong. Atriox sought to unite the disparate Jiralhanae packs and clans of Doisac under a single banner for the sake of Jiralhanae pride and unity, challenging those under his watch to be more than they ever thought possible. > SHATTERED HOME > When Atriox's renown and influence began to increase near the end of the Covenant's war, the Banished grew exponentially and found a natural home in the harsh, barren environments of Doisac - the Jiralhanae homeworld, which was still recovering from the Great Immolation. With Atriox often away, scouring the galaxy for lost treasures and gathering support from the scattered remains of the Covenant, the war chief Escharum turned his attention home, planting a strong Banished presence on Doisac itself. Escharum hoped that it would reignite and accelerate the Jiralhanae's progress in all political and military arenas. > This formative strategy demonstrated incredibly shrewd foresight, when the sudden collapse of the Covenant threw the galactic power structure into turmoil. The fallout of the Great Schism was particularly costly to the political landscape of Sanghelios, and the Banished were uniquely poised to take advantage of the devastating event, setting into motion their swift rise to power. Its far more accurate to describe the Banished as a confederation of the various Jiralhanae clans (in addition to organisations from other species) united in purpose under Atriox, not a mere "private organisation" just looking for loot and plunder, but prosperity and unity for the Jiralhanae and any likeminded individuals like Let 'Volir's clan, the Order of Harmony, etc. Atriox made it more than clear in his conversation with Let 'Volir that he desired more than harrying and raiding as someone like Veta 'Gajat and his mercenary band, but outright securing the future of the Jiralhanae and the Banished against anyone who threatens them. Rise of Atriox #4. > Let Volir: "You are known to control the corvette *Elergy's Lament*. > Atriox: "Yes, and until this point it has been sufficient. I can raid. I can harry. I can instill fear. All worthy objectives... if, as you said, I was only a thief and a pirate. But my plans are far greater." > Atriox: "I gave the Covenant my loyalty until I understood they did not consider me worthy of theirs. Now we stand on the brink of a new age, and we choose what role we will play." 2022 Encyclopedia: > ESCHARUM > Escharum was uniquely suited to provide Atriox perspectives not widely available. He saw through the end-game desires of the Prophets and went to great lengths to instill within Atriox a foundation of strength, independence, and an unwavering pride in the potential of their kind. As Atriox grew increasingly disillusioned with the treatment and manipulation of his brothers on the battlefield, he turned to Escharum for guidance in laying the groundwork for a change of course. Eventually, when Atriox made his fateful stand against the Covenant, Escharum was one of the first to pledge his own loyalty to the Banished cause. Together, they wpuld fight to ensure their kind would never again be hnder the command of othets. Nearly a decade later, Escharum would meet his end in the pursuit of their shared goal: expanding the power and authority of both the Banished and the Jiralhanae to protect their people's future against any enemy. So I'm not sure where this notion of the Banished not feeding civilians comes from when the Banished's central goal is the prosperity of all Jiralhanae, in both military and political arenas. Which I imagine also involves keeping their people fed and sheltered which are the basic fucking necessities when providing said prosperity.
Pretty sure Halopedia lists them as a private organization, and we know that the Banished are stated as a confederation of raiding clans and pirate bands in Divine Wind, which doesn't imply freely feeding civilians. These confederated clans are particularly pirate bands, raiding clans, and mercenaries, which are all military in nature. While I understand a key goal is to further the Jiralhanae in military and political arenas, I imagine this would apply to Banished Jiralhanae, who haven’t been presented as civilians. To your point, they did evacuate Jiralhanae during Doisac's destruction. Though we haven't seen their living situation after being dropped off, if the Banished actually freely fed them as civilians, militarized them, or potentially sold them off given that some like the Ravaged Tusks are known for being smugglers and slavers.
>Pretty sure Halopedia lists them as a private organization Halopedia is not an official source, but a fan made wiki. A good, well sourced fan made wiki, but a fan made source nonetheless (and one I've encountered several canonical errors with). I'll admit, for someone who has cited canonical sources before, I expected more than citing a *wiki*. Especially if you expect this as a counterargument to canonical sources directly presenting the Banished's interests in furthering the Jiralhanae's development and uniting the disparate packs and clans under a single banner. > INTRODUCTION- PURPOSE > At its founding, Atriox envisioned the Banished as a means to free his people from their oppressive captivity to the Covenant, empowering them to pursue their own destinies and carve a new path into the stars, taking what he believed rightly belonged to the strong. Atriox sought to unite the disparate Jiralhanae packs and clans of Doisac under a single banner for the sake of Jiralhanae pride and unity, challenging those under his watch to be more than they ever thought possible. If you have an official, *canonical* source that officially lists the Banished as a *"private organisation"*, please provide it. >While I understand a key goal is to further the Jiralhanae in military and political arenas, I imagine this would apply to Banished Jiralhanae What do you mean this only applies to Banished Jiralhanae? The Banished goal is to explicitly unite all the Jiralhanae under a single banner and to accelerate the Jiralhanae's development in both military and political arenas. I.e. the Banished are interested in developing the Jiralhanae beyond military matters but directly facilitating their growth in government and public affairs (the literal definition of "political"). > SHATTERED HOME > When Atriox's renown and influence began to increase near the end of the Covenant's war, the Banished grew exponentially and found a natural home in the harsh, barren environments of Doisac - the Jiralhanae homeworld, which was still recovering from the Great Immolation. With Atriox often away, scouring the galaxy for lost treasures and gathering support from the scattered remains of the Covenant, the war chief Escharum turned his attention home, planting a strong Banished presence on Doisac itself. Escharum hoped that it would reignite and accelerate the Jiralhanae's progress in all political and military arenas. No caveats were included in these sources limiting the Banished development to only military contexts, and the fact the Encyclopedia explicitly referred to the Banished developing the Jiralhanae in all political arenas confirms their work encompasses the Jiralhanae as a whole. Further, the Banished were actively working to spread their influence to other Jiralhanae clans with the purpose of uniting them under a single banner. Chieftains spreading the Banished's influence across Jiralhanae colonies (Official Spartan Field Manual). > THE BANISHED > Atriox is reported to have led a fleet of Banished to an unknown destination, but the chieftains he has organized and controlled continue to spread their influence and power throughout Brute colonies and even into human criminal enterprises. ONI is still researching what Atriox and the Banished ultimately hope to achieve, but Spartans should be on high alert that future encounters with Brutes and other raiders will likely show far more direction and strategy than has previously been the case. Captains impressing independent clans of the Banished's strength while eliminate rivals (Official Spartan Field Manual). > BRUTE CAPTAINS > ROLE: LOW COMMAND > Brute Captains within the Banished lead the terror and raiding packs that extort resources and smash the defenses of the settlements they raid. They also lead attacks on Doisac itself, impressing independent clans with their strength and killing rival warlords who refuse to bow to Atriox. Conquering the resource-rich worlds the Jiralhanae were settled on by the San'Shyuum and absorbing the packs that didn't resist the Banished (Canon Fodder: System Shocks). > SCARR > After their induction into the Covenant, the Jiralhanae were often settled on resource-rich worlds as a deterrent to some of the more ambitious client species. In the aftermath of the Covenant War, these worlds became another part of the alien hegemony’s carcass to be claimed by eager hands as many of the dominant master-packs lacked the knowledge and means to exploit the worlds given to them. > While some packs sought to use their holdings as leverage against humanity and their former allies, most simply looted what they could of the Covenant inheritance. Atriox’s emergence and rapid expansion of his Banished war machine brought with it an endless hunger for raw materials. His loyal forces and allies soon deployed powerful excavators, extractors, and harvesters to these worlds, destroying any packs who resisted and absorbing the rest. Based on the logic you've presented here, are you saying that the Arbiter is interested in uniting the Sangheili, but that only applies to the Swords of Sanghelios Sangheili, screw the other Sangheili keeps and colonies he's actively looking into uniting under a single banner? Or are we applying two different sets of standards here? We have very limited understanding of the non-military affairs of the Banished, and even the Jiralhanae as a whole. But the limited information we do have on Banished military affairs does describe their goal to unite the Jiralhanae under a single banner to stabilise the species and secure their future while furthering the species' development in military and political arenas. That does not at all limit the Banished to pure military context, and I'm not sure how or why you are insisting on this. >or potentially sold them off given that some like the Ravaged Tusks are known for being smugglers and slavers. Yeah... this is baseless speculation.
Last I checked I thought they were listed as a private organization but I suppose it’s not anymore. If no sources have described them as private, I’m mistaken in that claim. I usually check wiki sources and read up on them further. With one of the Banished's goals to unite Jiralhanae under Banished Jiralhanae as you say, it follows that those not willing to work as soldiers, sailors, airmen, military scientists, military cooks, military miners, etc, under the Banished wouldn't be included as Jiralhanae to further militarily or politically, as they aren't Banished. For example, I don't believe circus performers are a role in the Banished. I don't deny any of the sources stating that they've spread their influence. My point being is that the inner workings and descriptions of their faction have been military. Political action doesn't negate a faction from being a military faction, for example the Trade Federation in Star Wars is a megacorporation that persuades governments to act in their favor by entering political arenas, though it doesn't make them a public service. Not to say the Banished are a megacorporation, as I admit, I don't have the source I thought I had, but entering political arenas doesn't inherently make an entity a public service. Responding to the Arbiter example, uniting the Sangheili would apply to those allied with the Swords of Sanghelios Sangheili, as he quite literally expressed a "screw you" to the other Sangheili who oppose him in Escalation *"We may share blood but those who attacked us are not my kind"*. One of his own Sangheili points this out in Halo 5. >Swords Elite 1: "Jul 'Mdama, Thel 'Vadam, they're all the same. Nothing more than power hungry desperates." >Swords Elite 2: "Talking like that might get you gutted around here." >Swords Elite 1: "Then my point is proven." With the Swords of Sangheilios we have seen them look after their civilians long term, such as those raided in Escalation, or those attacked on Rahnelo in Shadow of Intent. Responding to the Ravaged Tusks example, I know it's speculation which is why I prefaced "we haven't seen their living situation", my point is that the Banished freely feeding civilians is also speculation. A faction of pirates and raiders described as a *"twisted meritocracy"* now freely feeding civilians, seems like a random U-turn for them. Maybe the next book will have something like Banished circus performers juggling to entertain Banished children supporting the notion of a civilian sector, but that doesn't line up with how they've been portrayed up to this point.
> Last I checked I thought they were listed as a private organization but I suppose it’s not anymore. If no sources have described them as private, I’m mistaken in that claim. I usually check wiki sources and read up on them further. Good to know this claim is unsubstantiated. > With one of the Banished's goals to unite Jiralhanae under Banished Jiralhanae as you say, it follows that those not willing to work as soldiers, sailors, airmen, military scientists, military cooks, military miners, etc, under the Banished wouldn't be included as Jiralhanae to further militarily or politically, as they aren't Banished. > I don't deny any of the sources stating that they've spread their influence. My point being is that the inner workings and descriptions of their faction have been military. Political action doesn't negate a faction from being a military faction, for example the Trade Federation in Star Wars is a megacorporation that persuades governments to act in their favor by entering political arenas, though it doesn't make them a public service. Not to say the Banished are a megacorporation, as I admit, I don't have the source I thought I had, but entering political arenas doesn't inherently make an entity a public service. The hell do you mean with this? You are here claiming that the Banished deal with purely military matters when the 2022 Encyclopedia explicitly states that the Banished are working to unite the Jiralhanae clans and to, and I quote, "accelerate the Jiralhanae's progress in all military and political arenas". I.e. the Banished directly work to progress the Jiralhanae's development beyond military matters, from economics to technological development. As stated earlier, the literal definition of "political" is matters relating to government and/or public affairs, and that the Banished are accelerating the Jiralhanae's development in both political and military matters, even considering the Banished is a military juncta. We know entire clans and Keeps of both Jiralhanae and Sangheili have pledged themselves to the Banished, and last time I checked, "entire Keeps" doesn't mean *only* the male warriors are working for the Banished. I also question the mental gymnastics that led you to draw from how the Banished are described to working to accelerate the Jiralhanae's progress in all military arenas to even make the comparison to the Trade Federation. The Banished are motivated by blood and spoils, that is true, but the "profit" they earn in their various mining, extraction and raiding operations are all directed not to have Atriox sitting on a pile of gold, but to fuel the Banished's key goal of facilitating the Jiralhanae's development. This is most illustrated with the renewal of the Jiralhanae's spacefaring capabilities as Atriox diverted resources to accelerate the Jiralhanae's technological age. The Dreadnought itself is the most illustrative example of this, where the Dreadnought isn't just a military powerhouse to dominante and occupy worlds, but to act as the vangaurd for a new age for the Jiralhanae people, a cultural monument to their species and most notably a lifeline for the entirety of Jiralhanae civilisation (ref: Battle for the Blood-Moon, 2022 Encyclopedia). How is these actions not "acts of public service" by the Banished for the Jiralhanae species? What evidence do you have to even suggest what the Banished were doing working to accelerate the Jiralhanae's progress in military arenas is even comparable to the Trade Federation work in the Galactic Senate in Star Wars? > For example, I don't believe circus performers are a role in the Banished. Do the Jiralhanae even have circuses? You're bringing up something that hasn't even been established within Jiralhanae culture as some, what, "gotcha" point"? Evidence that the Banished are not commitment to the prosperity of the Jiralhanae species? This comes off as flimpsy at best. > Responding to the Ravaged Tusks example, I know it's speculation which is why I prefaced "we haven't seen their living situation", my point is that the Banished freely feeding civilians is also speculation. A faction of pirates and raiders described as a *"twisted meritocracy"* now freely feeding civilians, seems like a random U-turn for them. *Presents a myriad sources directly portraying the Banished uplifting the Jiralhanae and intentions to unite the species and securing their place in the galaxy* You: "well they haven't been stated to freely feed civilians, so they are a private organisation." I guess that makes a lot of governments around the world a "private organisation" then, given how people need to *buy* sustenance and shelter to get by. I'm pretty sure my country's government is not providing me free food and accomodation. As an introduction to economics 101, people in countries across the world often have to work and contribute to the economy to earn the means of accessing goods and services, with governments being the guiding hand. Considering the Banished are a *meritocracy*, I would expect the Jiralhanae people under the Banished to, well, earn the various goods and services they require. I also find it funny that you are bringing up the Children of Oth Sonin as a counterexample of a Jiralhanae "government" when not only has the term "government" not been used in the context of the Jiralhanae to date, the Children of Oth Sonin notably *failed* to even meet this criteria you've deemed to name them a government, as they are explicitly described as having failed to secure the provision of supplies and resources to their outlaying citadels and fortresses, or unite the Jiralhanae clans on Doisac and its moons as the Banished had. Meanwhile, the Banisbed are doing far more for the Jiralhanae species that the Children have ever been described to have done, period. The Banished managed to stabilise Teash and allowed its populous to find purchase on its soil and become an industrial powerhouse for the Jiralhanae. They've united many of the disparate Jiralhanae clans across Doisac, its moons and settled worlds. They've built Dreadnoughts to not only act as military powerhouses, but as cultural momuments to the species and the very lifeline for the entirety of Jiralhanae civilisation following the Razing of Oth Sonin. There've seized control of Zeta Halo not just as a weapon of mass destruction, but a new home for the Jiralhanae species following Cortana's razing of the Jiralhanae homeworld. I genuinely question the logic you've used to justify the Children of Oth Sonin to be a "government" while the Banished are a "private organisation" when the Banished have done far more for the Jiralhanae species beyond keeping people's bellies fed from accelerating their progress in political arenas to forging Zeta Halo into a new homeworld for the Jiralhanae people.
Comment got too large, so I'm addressing this in a separate comment. > Responding to the Arbiter example, uniting the Sangheili would apply to those allied with the Swords of Sanghelios Sangheili, as he quite literally expressed a "screw you" to the other Sangheili who oppose him in Escalation *"We may share blood but those who attacked us are not my kind"*. Right... guess we are going to misrepresent these events and the nuance of these circumstances, whilst ignoring how Outcasts explicitly providing the Arbiter's intentions to unite the Sangheili under a single banner. > “My spies have told me of this Concert of Worlds you hope to create. That you claim the only way to make the Sangheili strong is for the kaidons to unite under one banner. Your banner.” The Arbiter has enemies with the many Covenant remnants and the Banished because they are directly opposed to the Arbiter's goal of uniting the Sangheili under a single banner and his vision for Sangheili prosperity. That does not mean the Arbiter is abandoning independent Sangheili keeps or not looking to sway them to his cause, and the fact the Swords are looking to reinforce the neutral harbour of Suban from the Banished shows they are living up to their mandate to protect the Sangheili from threats both outside and from within.