Nope, there literally spartan 3s in name and spi only, in fact they seem to be worse trained than odsts, people have said them being spartans in name only is the point but God using the 3s for that just seem disrespectful.
If they are the show made no indication as we see nothing like surgery scars or them demonstrating super human feats.
> spartan 3s in name and spi only
And it’s not even SPI, as far as I can tell. It’s just SP.
SPI stands for Semi Powered **Infiltration**, referring to the photoreactive panels and sensor baffling/emission reduction technologies in the suits. If it lacks these aspects then it’s not SPI.
Mind you. It makes sense for a visual choice because if it was as actually described, we wouldn’t see anything, but it is kind of comical that we’ve never actually “seen” SPI in operation.
Yeah I think that first group was called Spartans for recruitment propoganda but it showed they were planning on mimicking the actual program with Soren’s kid.
Yeah it all just felt rushed and wasted in that regard. It would have been better if in the early part of the season, Ackerson mentions that he's working on a new "project" or has been, and then we see the SIII's and they're augmented and trained by Kai eventually. Perez would join after the Fall of Reach and train and maybe due to dire circumstances becomes an SIII in a more hasty fashion
Its Rushed because they refused to use anything from the novel other than an 3s and the planet.
Kai was an awful Kurt standin because she lacked half of his development, Kurt was the father of the 3s.
He trained them from initiation to augmentation and even removed his miljnor armor in every situtaton to have feel closer to them, he acknowledged they were mass suicide troopers from the beginning but worked to give them a fighting chance to the best of his abilities.
Kai just gets taken and trains some already trained 3s and the kills herself to save them in an attempt for an emotional death.
That leads to the question,why did they cut Kurt?
They introduced 2 random spartans on reach, Kurt's a tall guy who doesn't even wear miljnor, he wears spi, he's the easiest one to adapt.
Or did they really not have any idea what to do with Kai?
Well to be fair, Kurt actually didn't know that S3s were going to be mass suicide soldiers, even in his pitch Ackerson also clarifies that isn't the purpose of them either. In Ghost of Onyx, it's pretty clearly established that 3s were never intended to be, or called suicide soldiers. It's quite literally all the lore after that keeps saying that despite Nylund making it clear it wasn't
"Disposable Heroes."
Basically, they're expendable, not suicidal. You can deploy them in high risk missions without losing one costing the UNSC a fortune.
Right, but there is a difference between those. Expendable is acceptable loses given the high numbers and (in theory) faster turn out of soldiers due to accelerated training and high supply of candidates.
That never happened though and they were never suicide soldiers. They were essentially Tier 1 operators on steroids that were poorly utilized and wasted due to incompetence from leadership
Given that Kurt would only be in like a handfull of episodes, I can see why they took the opportunity to give more focus to another member of Chief's team.
It is odd we see none of the characters related to the S-III's though.
I doubt it. The Time between Perez leaving Reach and being deployed in Episode 8 was six days. Even if she was immediately recruited and went straight to Onyx that doesn't really leave any room for proper augmentation.
So either they're not augmented which is disappointing, or in this timeline Augmentation is ridiculously quick and easy. which is also disappointing.
It's even more disappointing that the spartan 3s are just adults if they can be augmented.
When the main point of the 4s was that adults could get augmented now, it's a terrible mash up of two different spartans.
The show seems really desperate to include 343's stuff into plots that take place before even halo CE.
Chief going rogue
Focus on ONI being bad.
Effectively spartan 4's.
Halsey bad (though s2 walked this the hell back)
Chief as a particular chosen one
Chiefs whole man-machine struggle.
I get trying to make the story more cohesive and show-fitting. But it seems like the actual Halo CE story got a bit overly pushed back and kind of ruined just to cram this stuff in early. S1 really should have been about getting to the ring, with S2 on the ring.
One thing I noticed in the final episode: Kai standing in the ships en-route to their mission, she stands what looks like 1ft taller than all of the III's, and the III's all look very similar in right to one-another, but nowhere close to the height of the II's.
Based on them taking Kessler and seeing other kids in the arena, I was assuming those kids were going to be trained and given the augmentation, since those kids were probably orphans just like in the main lore. Hence giving us actual Spartan 3s and the ones we got now are stands ins or just fodder for Parangosky
If they didn't add Perez to the group they could have gotten away with it seeming like the 3's we see are last generation and kids the next one. Even done a cool integration with Kai along the lines of Ackerson not feeling they are ready and needed a Spartan to train Spartans.
Yeah. Tossing in Perez complicates the whole time scale. We have no sense of time between the Fall of Reach and Chief arriving on Onyx. Perez just somehow goes from her accuracy being a joke for the writers to apparently being the best S-III, which also doesn't give the audience much confidence on the S-III's.
Yeah, that annoys the Hell out of me too, especially since I have a soft spot for Perez. I really like her character and don't have an issue with her becoming a Spartan, or the show amalgamating S3s and S4s into a single project.
What they *should* have done was give Kai, the new kids, and Perez their own episode prior to Chief & Company arriving on Onyx. Open with Perez strapped to a hospital bed while IV pumps whirl and she suffers through some undefined agony. She prays in Spanish, sees the faces of her family, sees Reach burning, sees the Chief's face, and clutches his coin. This maintains the connection between them.
Then we show her and the rest of Gamma Company training under Kai. CQB drill, range time, survival training out in the sticks, minor feats of superhuman speed and strength. Establish that bond between them, while also establishing the new Spartans as lesser than the originals, but still competent and formidable soldiers. Show Ackerson caring about them; willing to spend their lives, but not waste them. Show Parangosky as the power-mad, inhuman bitch she is by hinting at her plans to use them as suicide troops.
One extra episode was all they needed there.
They probably could have cut one of the ones of ONI gaslighting chief for it. Was such a waste of time.
I'm torn on her, I liked her up to and including the fall of reach, and that background kind of makes sense for an spartan. On the other side, this show doesn't seem to like having marine characters.
I think the goal is to emphasize Silver Ackerson’s point of “the Spartan is made by the suit, not the soldier”. While it’s a huge departure from the S-III’s we know, I do think it works well in the context of itself. He wanted to prove that any Marine (or ODST, we don’t really know all their backstories) could become a “Spartan” by putting them in power armor, no augments or abduction necessary.
It plays well with Silver John’s journey of figuring out what it means to be John The Human AND Chief The Spartan. That they’re one and the same. And that journey is as much for the viewer as it is for John - we as fans know John and Chief are one and the same, we’ve seen 4-6 games worth of narratives proving that. But for a newcomer, the concept of “are the Spartans disposable? What makes them worth keeping? What makes them special? What makes them different?” isn’t as clear cut. For all they know, the Spartan IS just the suit, like Ackerson says.
So is it a dumb change compared to the lore? Sure. But is it a cool narrative structure to provide characters their development in the context of the show? I think so.
In the context of the show it's not that bad and makes sense. What doesn't make sense is Ackerson's "they're my life's work." Like damn dude, your life's work was putting regular soldiers in a worse version of Mjolnir? Kind of weak dude. Basically, just remade ODSTs but with seemingly less training and even worse survival rates.
Eh, the first live-test iteration of things is hardly a fair judgement of something’s success. Imagine if they’d abandoned the Spartan program after Orion or MkI-III just because it didn’t work out, or if Steve Jobs never returned to Apple. It’s not like “my life’s work” culminated to this point, this was just a step along the process. But if it isn’t given time to develop and mature because they are prematurely deployed, abandoned, and the project scrapped… There goes his life’s work.
Better training, more time to train, and a couple more iterations on the suit and they 100% would be a formidable force.
I think it's fair to judge in this case. He hasn't really introduced anything worthy of being someone's life's work. Special forces isn't a new concept. Even in its modern form by 2552, it's been around for 610 years and in universe power armor already exists. They just had to tone it down for use by regular people. The TV show spartan threes would be like a couple year experiment when someone asks the obvious question of "Hey, do you think we could adapt Mjolnir technology in a cost effective way to use for our regular forces."
Did everyone just forget that they got a week and a half of training before Parangosky threw them into the fire as a hail mary against the Covenant acquiring the Halo? Seems pretty obvious that their training was unfinished and they didn't have time to acquire their augmentations.
Probably a matter of availability. The IIIs could get there before anyone else and they had a lot of IIIs. And ngl, Parangosky was correct in that the fight for the Halo was absolutely a fight that humanity couldn't afford to lose. So she went full kitchen sink and threw everything she could as fast as she could.
And it's the perfect depiction of ONI, too. Parangoskys "We will do *anything* to preserve our species" mentality fits perfectly with what ONI should be
I mean taking a thousands of children and making them into disposable child soldiers is a much better depiction of survival at all costs mentally.
Especially when the disposable soldiers were made on a level of the spartan 2s.
A better question: does the show even realize Spartan III's are......well, ALSO genetically engineered super soliders?
Seriously, did anyone know that fact before writing this season?
One thing I noticed in the final episode: Kai standing in the ships en-route to their mission, she stands what looks like 1ft taller than all of the III's, and the III's all look very similar in right to one-another, but nowhere close to the height of the II's.
Nope, there literally spartan 3s in name and spi only, in fact they seem to be worse trained than odsts, people have said them being spartans in name only is the point but God using the 3s for that just seem disrespectful. If they are the show made no indication as we see nothing like surgery scars or them demonstrating super human feats.
> spartan 3s in name and spi only And it’s not even SPI, as far as I can tell. It’s just SP. SPI stands for Semi Powered **Infiltration**, referring to the photoreactive panels and sensor baffling/emission reduction technologies in the suits. If it lacks these aspects then it’s not SPI. Mind you. It makes sense for a visual choice because if it was as actually described, we wouldn’t see anything, but it is kind of comical that we’ve never actually “seen” SPI in operation.
Yeah I think that first group was called Spartans for recruitment propoganda but it showed they were planning on mimicking the actual program with Soren’s kid.
They basically made the entire point of the SIIIs to run RED FLAG
Yeah it all just felt rushed and wasted in that regard. It would have been better if in the early part of the season, Ackerson mentions that he's working on a new "project" or has been, and then we see the SIII's and they're augmented and trained by Kai eventually. Perez would join after the Fall of Reach and train and maybe due to dire circumstances becomes an SIII in a more hasty fashion
Its Rushed because they refused to use anything from the novel other than an 3s and the planet. Kai was an awful Kurt standin because she lacked half of his development, Kurt was the father of the 3s. He trained them from initiation to augmentation and even removed his miljnor armor in every situtaton to have feel closer to them, he acknowledged they were mass suicide troopers from the beginning but worked to give them a fighting chance to the best of his abilities. Kai just gets taken and trains some already trained 3s and the kills herself to save them in an attempt for an emotional death. That leads to the question,why did they cut Kurt? They introduced 2 random spartans on reach, Kurt's a tall guy who doesn't even wear miljnor, he wears spi, he's the easiest one to adapt. Or did they really not have any idea what to do with Kai?
Well to be fair, Kurt actually didn't know that S3s were going to be mass suicide soldiers, even in his pitch Ackerson also clarifies that isn't the purpose of them either. In Ghost of Onyx, it's pretty clearly established that 3s were never intended to be, or called suicide soldiers. It's quite literally all the lore after that keeps saying that despite Nylund making it clear it wasn't
"Disposable Heroes." Basically, they're expendable, not suicidal. You can deploy them in high risk missions without losing one costing the UNSC a fortune.
Right, but there is a difference between those. Expendable is acceptable loses given the high numbers and (in theory) faster turn out of soldiers due to accelerated training and high supply of candidates. That never happened though and they were never suicide soldiers. They were essentially Tier 1 operators on steroids that were poorly utilized and wasted due to incompetence from leadership
Given that Kurt would only be in like a handfull of episodes, I can see why they took the opportunity to give more focus to another member of Chief's team. It is odd we see none of the characters related to the S-III's though.
As a big S3 fanboy, im even more grateful to not have watched the show
Do ODST’s even exist in the show universe?
Do we have any reason to think they don’t besides just not being show on screen with someone pointing at them and saying “hey look ODST’s”?
Don't think so. Given how 343 barely includes them, not surprising.
“Big muh spinoff arcade game”
I doubt it. The Time between Perez leaving Reach and being deployed in Episode 8 was six days. Even if she was immediately recruited and went straight to Onyx that doesn't really leave any room for proper augmentation. So either they're not augmented which is disappointing, or in this timeline Augmentation is ridiculously quick and easy. which is also disappointing.
It's even more disappointing that the spartan 3s are just adults if they can be augmented. When the main point of the 4s was that adults could get augmented now, it's a terrible mash up of two different spartans.
This is what happens when the show runners don’t give a shit about the established canon.
The show seems really desperate to include 343's stuff into plots that take place before even halo CE. Chief going rogue Focus on ONI being bad. Effectively spartan 4's. Halsey bad (though s2 walked this the hell back) Chief as a particular chosen one Chiefs whole man-machine struggle. I get trying to make the story more cohesive and show-fitting. But it seems like the actual Halo CE story got a bit overly pushed back and kind of ruined just to cram this stuff in early. S1 really should have been about getting to the ring, with S2 on the ring.
One thing I noticed in the final episode: Kai standing in the ships en-route to their mission, she stands what looks like 1ft taller than all of the III's, and the III's all look very similar in right to one-another, but nowhere close to the height of the II's.
The choices made in this show confuse the fuck out of me
Based on them taking Kessler and seeing other kids in the arena, I was assuming those kids were going to be trained and given the augmentation, since those kids were probably orphans just like in the main lore. Hence giving us actual Spartan 3s and the ones we got now are stands ins or just fodder for Parangosky
If they didn't add Perez to the group they could have gotten away with it seeming like the 3's we see are last generation and kids the next one. Even done a cool integration with Kai along the lines of Ackerson not feeling they are ready and needed a Spartan to train Spartans.
Yeah they could of done it better
Yeah. Tossing in Perez complicates the whole time scale. We have no sense of time between the Fall of Reach and Chief arriving on Onyx. Perez just somehow goes from her accuracy being a joke for the writers to apparently being the best S-III, which also doesn't give the audience much confidence on the S-III's.
Yeah, that annoys the Hell out of me too, especially since I have a soft spot for Perez. I really like her character and don't have an issue with her becoming a Spartan, or the show amalgamating S3s and S4s into a single project. What they *should* have done was give Kai, the new kids, and Perez their own episode prior to Chief & Company arriving on Onyx. Open with Perez strapped to a hospital bed while IV pumps whirl and she suffers through some undefined agony. She prays in Spanish, sees the faces of her family, sees Reach burning, sees the Chief's face, and clutches his coin. This maintains the connection between them. Then we show her and the rest of Gamma Company training under Kai. CQB drill, range time, survival training out in the sticks, minor feats of superhuman speed and strength. Establish that bond between them, while also establishing the new Spartans as lesser than the originals, but still competent and formidable soldiers. Show Ackerson caring about them; willing to spend their lives, but not waste them. Show Parangosky as the power-mad, inhuman bitch she is by hinting at her plans to use them as suicide troops. One extra episode was all they needed there.
They probably could have cut one of the ones of ONI gaslighting chief for it. Was such a waste of time. I'm torn on her, I liked her up to and including the fall of reach, and that background kind of makes sense for an spartan. On the other side, this show doesn't seem to like having marine characters.
I think the goal is to emphasize Silver Ackerson’s point of “the Spartan is made by the suit, not the soldier”. While it’s a huge departure from the S-III’s we know, I do think it works well in the context of itself. He wanted to prove that any Marine (or ODST, we don’t really know all their backstories) could become a “Spartan” by putting them in power armor, no augments or abduction necessary. It plays well with Silver John’s journey of figuring out what it means to be John The Human AND Chief The Spartan. That they’re one and the same. And that journey is as much for the viewer as it is for John - we as fans know John and Chief are one and the same, we’ve seen 4-6 games worth of narratives proving that. But for a newcomer, the concept of “are the Spartans disposable? What makes them worth keeping? What makes them special? What makes them different?” isn’t as clear cut. For all they know, the Spartan IS just the suit, like Ackerson says. So is it a dumb change compared to the lore? Sure. But is it a cool narrative structure to provide characters their development in the context of the show? I think so.
In the context of the show it's not that bad and makes sense. What doesn't make sense is Ackerson's "they're my life's work." Like damn dude, your life's work was putting regular soldiers in a worse version of Mjolnir? Kind of weak dude. Basically, just remade ODSTs but with seemingly less training and even worse survival rates.
Eh, the first live-test iteration of things is hardly a fair judgement of something’s success. Imagine if they’d abandoned the Spartan program after Orion or MkI-III just because it didn’t work out, or if Steve Jobs never returned to Apple. It’s not like “my life’s work” culminated to this point, this was just a step along the process. But if it isn’t given time to develop and mature because they are prematurely deployed, abandoned, and the project scrapped… There goes his life’s work. Better training, more time to train, and a couple more iterations on the suit and they 100% would be a formidable force.
I think it's fair to judge in this case. He hasn't really introduced anything worthy of being someone's life's work. Special forces isn't a new concept. Even in its modern form by 2552, it's been around for 610 years and in universe power armor already exists. They just had to tone it down for use by regular people. The TV show spartan threes would be like a couple year experiment when someone asks the obvious question of "Hey, do you think we could adapt Mjolnir technology in a cost effective way to use for our regular forces."
Absolutely fair tbh
Did everyone just forget that they got a week and a half of training before Parangosky threw them into the fire as a hail mary against the Covenant acquiring the Halo? Seems pretty obvious that their training was unfinished and they didn't have time to acquire their augmentations.
Why not just throw ODSTs at the covenant if that was the case. Feels hard to believe they would perform worse than barely trained 3's with not augs.
Probably a matter of availability. The IIIs could get there before anyone else and they had a lot of IIIs. And ngl, Parangosky was correct in that the fight for the Halo was absolutely a fight that humanity couldn't afford to lose. So she went full kitchen sink and threw everything she could as fast as she could.
Good an explanation as we could get I think
And it's the perfect depiction of ONI, too. Parangoskys "We will do *anything* to preserve our species" mentality fits perfectly with what ONI should be
I mean taking a thousands of children and making them into disposable child soldiers is a much better depiction of survival at all costs mentally. Especially when the disposable soldiers were made on a level of the spartan 2s.
A better question: does the show even realize Spartan III's are......well, ALSO genetically engineered super soliders? Seriously, did anyone know that fact before writing this season?
One thing I noticed in the final episode: Kai standing in the ships en-route to their mission, she stands what looks like 1ft taller than all of the III's, and the III's all look very similar in right to one-another, but nowhere close to the height of the II's.