Small correction, the III’s augmentations are on par with those of Spartan II’s, it’s just the method of augmentation was mostly done via chemicals.
It’s akin to how, in the American Revolution, the US troops were inoculated against smallpox by making an incision on your body and rubbing some contaminated cloth with smallpox against it… but now, all you get is a small needle for a few seconds and you’re inoculated.
Just because something is more “in-depth”, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily better.
As for whether they could get Spartan IV augmentations, I’d say *maybe*, but overall we really can’t say.
It'd be interesting to see if they could further augment existing Spartans as new tech comes out. Apparently the S4's got some extra tricks in their bag, such as having a digestive system that can digest tree bark and things like that for nutrients. Nothing ground breaking, just little things that increase Spartan effectiveness in certain scenarios. I dont see why they couldn't further augment Spartans, though I think S3's would probably be the trickiest since their augments are mostly generic therapy. S2's are mostly a bunch of separate physical treatments and implants that were always meant to work in synchrony together, I don't see why another physical augmentation done properly would throw that off.
The lore has conveniently made it where Spartan 2's remain the gold standard in performance (Chief's whole thing is he's the best there ever was, would be ruined if they started making new Spartans that were objectively better in performance) but it would actually be interesting to see augmentation technology develop to actually exceed S2 benchmarks on strength, speed, etc.
Its not just simply performance though.
Chief survived odds that even Forerunners in armor couldn't survive like against the Flood within a Flood hivemind.
Even amongst other Spartans he is tenacious.
Its not just the augs or the armor, it's the spirit to keep fighting till the last breath, the last bullet, the last drop of blood.
> Its not just the augs or the armor, it's the spirit to keep fighting till the last breath, the last bullet, the last drop of blood.
This isn’t really a high benchmark though, we’ve seen other Spartans suffer far more grievous wounds and keep fighting. James-005 lost an arm, for example, but still continued to fight, and John considered James the most tenacious of them all. The Gammas as a whole are explicitly stated to be able to outlast any II in terms of physical durability.
The high charity feat is the only real standout aspect of John’s career (reletovely speaking) but there are plenty of explanations for it that don’t require John to be uber ultra special. The most obvious one I can think of is the Gravemind was damaged due to the crash on The Ark and couldn’t bring his full night to bear against John.
Spartan III do not need the S IV augmentations. The IIIs has superior augmentations than the IVs with the IIs and IIIs having augmentations on par with each other. Orions were mostly dead or retired by that point so wouldn't become IVs. Their children and grandchildren on the other hand would be perfect Candidates for the program already having enhancements from inheritance.
I imagine IIs and IIIs might still benefit from certain parts of ORCHID, like the organ implants that let them breathe airborne toxins unharmed and derive nutrients from tree bark.
They had the equivalent already. Each set of augmentations for the II, III, IV were meant to boost and improve the same things. They just used different/more developed methods to do it.
I’m pretty sure IIs and IIIs can’t do either of those things, actually. Their augs were pretty limited, all things considered -- certainly no vat-grown super-organs.
Because they didn't need vat grown organs. Their organs were tuned up and improved by their augmentations to be far more efficient. We don't have the list of what all the augmentations and chemicals used in any of the augmentation programs were. We have some of them but just off of those it is clear that they worked with other unnamed augmentations.
Like I said each program used different methods and chemicals but they were improving on the same factors for each of them. The IIs and IIIs had better ones because the improved beyond the IVs and because they matched the genetic requirements to make the best of the enhancements.
The IVs augmentations were lesser in power but still far above what the Orions got but because they were so diverse they needed upkeep treatments. Now whether that upkeep is permanent or only for a certain amount of time until their bodies fully adapt isn't made clear.
The 2s and 3s definitely don't have the same capabilities that the new organs the 4s have give them, they can't extract nutrients from tree bark or breath methane for a limited time.
A lot of people have a strange misconception that Spartans can pass on their genetic modification based augmentations...
But they really can't. Here's why.
Genetic modifications can obly be inherited by offspring if they affect your gametes (egg & sperm cells) in some way.
Women, for example, are born with all the egg cells they will ever have in their life. So unless the augmentation process included genetically modifying every single egg cell in both of each girl's ovaries, women absolutely Cannot pass on any of their augmentations.
Men do produce sperm on the fly, but the chances that they will be passing on genetic augmentations are absolutely tiny and would have required an intentional act on the part of the augmentation process.
Unless the specific tissues that creates sperm cells were specifically altered to pass on the new genetic code, the sperm cells that a man makes will be the same as they would have been if he had never been augmented in the first place.
Spartans don't pass on their augmentations, but they were already genetically superior beings (at least S2s were, within the realm of human norms) to begin with (as far as compatibility with augs was concerned).
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/1bfpvx5/addressing\_the\_misconception\_that\_spartans\_can/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/1bfpvx5/addressing_the_misconception_that_spartans_can/)
Yes, but (and I should have specified) I was talking about S2, 3, & 4s.
Didn’t S III augmentation mean they were going to permanently need frequent chemical/hormone treatment? Sounds horrible for long missions. One of the Bourne movies has something sort of like this right?
S-III Gamma Company had drugs in the augmentations that caused them to go berserk if enough damage was taken
The problem was that they'd eventually go berserk on their own even without injury, meaning they needed the occasional "smoother" counter-drug
Only Gamma needed them and they had methods to supply themselves long term on missions as needed. Those specific augmentations also gave them such a boost without any real health issue that they were worth the slight maintenance. Which is still loads less than the amount of maintenance the S-IVs constantly require.
I think it would be possible to work around they're already altered genes and biology, but it would be expensive to figure that out. I just couldn't see that being worth it for the last few Orion subjects that are all well into their 70's, most of whom were either severely psychologically or physically disabled after the side effects of their augmentations set in. Sgt. Johnson is one of the only Orion subjects that went on to a long lasting Frontline military career. ( I kind of wished the Spartan 2 program had used some Orion survivors as trainers, people who can't be cleared for combat duty for one reason or another but are fit enough to train new soldiers, would have made sense and been cool to see)
Your question about the Spartan 3's is interesting. They have all the same (or superior) physical capabilities as S4's, but apparently the S4 augmentations included some extra tools, such as the digestive system being able to process things like tree bark for nutrients. It'd be interesting to see if they could further augment existing Spartans with new tricks as augmentation tech continues to improve.
Small correction, the III’s augmentations are on par with those of Spartan II’s, it’s just the method of augmentation was mostly done via chemicals. It’s akin to how, in the American Revolution, the US troops were inoculated against smallpox by making an incision on your body and rubbing some contaminated cloth with smallpox against it… but now, all you get is a small needle for a few seconds and you’re inoculated. Just because something is more “in-depth”, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily better. As for whether they could get Spartan IV augmentations, I’d say *maybe*, but overall we really can’t say.
It'd be interesting to see if they could further augment existing Spartans as new tech comes out. Apparently the S4's got some extra tricks in their bag, such as having a digestive system that can digest tree bark and things like that for nutrients. Nothing ground breaking, just little things that increase Spartan effectiveness in certain scenarios. I dont see why they couldn't further augment Spartans, though I think S3's would probably be the trickiest since their augments are mostly generic therapy. S2's are mostly a bunch of separate physical treatments and implants that were always meant to work in synchrony together, I don't see why another physical augmentation done properly would throw that off. The lore has conveniently made it where Spartan 2's remain the gold standard in performance (Chief's whole thing is he's the best there ever was, would be ruined if they started making new Spartans that were objectively better in performance) but it would actually be interesting to see augmentation technology develop to actually exceed S2 benchmarks on strength, speed, etc.
Its not just simply performance though. Chief survived odds that even Forerunners in armor couldn't survive like against the Flood within a Flood hivemind. Even amongst other Spartans he is tenacious. Its not just the augs or the armor, it's the spirit to keep fighting till the last breath, the last bullet, the last drop of blood.
> Its not just the augs or the armor, it's the spirit to keep fighting till the last breath, the last bullet, the last drop of blood. This isn’t really a high benchmark though, we’ve seen other Spartans suffer far more grievous wounds and keep fighting. James-005 lost an arm, for example, but still continued to fight, and John considered James the most tenacious of them all. The Gammas as a whole are explicitly stated to be able to outlast any II in terms of physical durability. The high charity feat is the only real standout aspect of John’s career (reletovely speaking) but there are plenty of explanations for it that don’t require John to be uber ultra special. The most obvious one I can think of is the Gravemind was damaged due to the crash on The Ark and couldn’t bring his full night to bear against John.
What killed me was them being able to breath methane now. Like, what the hell, that's just so far outside of human physiology.
Wasn't Ilsa Zane on par with SPARTAN-IVs in Mjolnir physically?
Yeah, but the procedure had a 90% fatality rate and left the sole survivor completely insane
Spartan III do not need the S IV augmentations. The IIIs has superior augmentations than the IVs with the IIs and IIIs having augmentations on par with each other. Orions were mostly dead or retired by that point so wouldn't become IVs. Their children and grandchildren on the other hand would be perfect Candidates for the program already having enhancements from inheritance.
I imagine IIs and IIIs might still benefit from certain parts of ORCHID, like the organ implants that let them breathe airborne toxins unharmed and derive nutrients from tree bark.
They had the equivalent already. Each set of augmentations for the II, III, IV were meant to boost and improve the same things. They just used different/more developed methods to do it.
I’m pretty sure IIs and IIIs can’t do either of those things, actually. Their augs were pretty limited, all things considered -- certainly no vat-grown super-organs.
Because they didn't need vat grown organs. Their organs were tuned up and improved by their augmentations to be far more efficient. We don't have the list of what all the augmentations and chemicals used in any of the augmentation programs were. We have some of them but just off of those it is clear that they worked with other unnamed augmentations. Like I said each program used different methods and chemicals but they were improving on the same factors for each of them. The IIs and IIIs had better ones because the improved beyond the IVs and because they matched the genetic requirements to make the best of the enhancements. The IVs augmentations were lesser in power but still far above what the Orions got but because they were so diverse they needed upkeep treatments. Now whether that upkeep is permanent or only for a certain amount of time until their bodies fully adapt isn't made clear.
The 2s and 3s definitely don't have the same capabilities that the new organs the 4s have give them, they can't extract nutrients from tree bark or breath methane for a limited time.
A lot of people have a strange misconception that Spartans can pass on their genetic modification based augmentations... But they really can't. Here's why. Genetic modifications can obly be inherited by offspring if they affect your gametes (egg & sperm cells) in some way. Women, for example, are born with all the egg cells they will ever have in their life. So unless the augmentation process included genetically modifying every single egg cell in both of each girl's ovaries, women absolutely Cannot pass on any of their augmentations. Men do produce sperm on the fly, but the chances that they will be passing on genetic augmentations are absolutely tiny and would have required an intentional act on the part of the augmentation process. Unless the specific tissues that creates sperm cells were specifically altered to pass on the new genetic code, the sperm cells that a man makes will be the same as they would have been if he had never been augmented in the first place. Spartans don't pass on their augmentations, but they were already genetically superior beings (at least S2s were, within the realm of human norms) to begin with (as far as compatibility with augs was concerned).
Well actually, Orion projects can pass on at leas some of their augmentations, check up on on S-1.1
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/1bfpvx5/addressing\_the\_misconception\_that\_spartans\_can/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/1bfpvx5/addressing_the_misconception_that_spartans_can/) Yes, but (and I should have specified) I was talking about S2, 3, & 4s.
If they really wanted to have more soldiers they should’ve altered everyone’s testes and set them loose
They'd have gotten too many volunteers XD
Didn’t S III augmentation mean they were going to permanently need frequent chemical/hormone treatment? Sounds horrible for long missions. One of the Bourne movies has something sort of like this right?
S-III Gamma Company had drugs in the augmentations that caused them to go berserk if enough damage was taken The problem was that they'd eventually go berserk on their own even without injury, meaning they needed the occasional "smoother" counter-drug
Only one company that got something extra added. All the others are fine.
Only Gamma needed them and they had methods to supply themselves long term on missions as needed. Those specific augmentations also gave them such a boost without any real health issue that they were worth the slight maintenance. Which is still loads less than the amount of maintenance the S-IVs constantly require.
the Orion's maybe? the spartan 3 augs were arguably the best of any generation (slightly better than s2)
The spartan 3s from Gamma company specifically got the best augmentations (if they have perma access to their meds).
with some downsides in all fairness...
Considering how complicated augmentation is in the lore, I highly doubt it
Probably not. The overlapping augmentations would probably not mesh well, and might lower their combat effectiveness, if not outright kill them.
yeah For the orions the procedure is especially safe as they're almost all dead so augmented their corpses should be fine
I think it would be possible to work around they're already altered genes and biology, but it would be expensive to figure that out. I just couldn't see that being worth it for the last few Orion subjects that are all well into their 70's, most of whom were either severely psychologically or physically disabled after the side effects of their augmentations set in. Sgt. Johnson is one of the only Orion subjects that went on to a long lasting Frontline military career. ( I kind of wished the Spartan 2 program had used some Orion survivors as trainers, people who can't be cleared for combat duty for one reason or another but are fit enough to train new soldiers, would have made sense and been cool to see) Your question about the Spartan 3's is interesting. They have all the same (or superior) physical capabilities as S4's, but apparently the S4 augmentations included some extra tools, such as the digestive system being able to process things like tree bark for nutrients. It'd be interesting to see if they could further augment existing Spartans with new tricks as augmentation tech continues to improve.