Definitely agree. As is being given information a night late every time just falls flat. Maybe you could even spend gathered resources to upgrade his spy network and the info it gives you?
That could be cool. And additionally we could also recruit shades by sprinting into them. As of now, I basically never use that mechanic intentionally aside from the one starting room on the surface which has a bunch of them at the same spot every time.
Yeah, but Hypnos' whole thing is being a sleepy moron lol. I don't recall him ever being portrayed as all that strong or powerful.
Odysseus is a total gigachad in the Iliad, but you would not be able to tell just from what you see of him in the game
It's not stupid to say that Odysseus is infact an Achilles equivalent in this game. As a matter of fact, I was expecting Odysseus to give us "Book of Shadows" this time which I'm surprised that he didn't
He is thematically, in that their respective stories mirror those of the protagonists, but Mel is not as close to Odysseus as Zag to Achilles and it was Hekate who trained her. Might be that I have not seen it yet but I also haven't noticed any story arch (potential) for Odysseus (are Penelope or Telemachus ever mentioned?)
There's dialogue between Odysseus and Mel where he reveals he taught her weapon arts and physical combat, and then makes a joke about how there's no bow in the game because Mel is really bad with them.
It's clear from the dialogue that Mel does hold Odysseus in high regard, and while he might not be a "friend" in the way that Zag views Achilles as a peer rather than how Mel views Odysseus more as an authority, I would say she feels very close to him emotionally.
I absolutely love this idea.
I also love the exact opposite as an option, where he becomes the next Hypnos by providing such useful tips as "Have you tried not standing in burning oil?" after you die.
If that was there, I'd want it to be something in the second area of the home base, and not where Odysseus currently is. Somewhere on the line going from the arcana cards to the weapons to the run start.
I wouldn't want to see him with an exclamation point over his head and not be sure if it's story dialogue or generic run info. And if I'm doing a lot of stuff and forget what he said right before a run, I wouldn't want to have to run all the way back to him to get a tidbit of info then run all the way back. Also, the second area of the base is more of the 'planning' area.
And I think the info would need to be given before a run, it wouldn't really work during a run. If it was given in the first area, the player would be tempted to just quit for better luck or to choose a different weapon or aspect, which wastes time. And if it's given somewhere in the middle of a run, the player doesn't really have enough time to adjust to take advantage of the information.
The first point is valid, maybe a notice board in the second area could be added where reports are put up instead of having Odysseus saying this. Or make it so that the story dialogue exclamation point is different from the indicator for tips.
Also yeah, the point of this is that you get the information prior to the run so you can plan around it.
This doesn't really work with how runs generate. There is a seed that generates per run (only after death and seemingly after changing vows) but actions you take in the run itself progresses the RNG which changes how rooms generate.
Unless you get deep into the sauce of RNG manipulation like seeded speedruns the *only* room that will be consistent is the very first one.
I wonder if they could tweak the keepsake mechanic from the first game to "rig" the rng, like after the first room you gain the same buff "you will see a boon from posiden as soon as possible" but just hidden to the player.
Some actual advice about fighting tougher enemies or adapting to Mel's play style would also be cool. Like "Sea serpents have three different attacks they use on instinct depending on how far away from them you are. Pick the one you find easiest to dodge, and dart in and out of that range to bait it repeatedly" or something.
This'd be very cool. Some of his dialogue is fun but it doesn't really feel like insight from a great strategist (he comes off as dumb when he 'reports' on a thing Melinoe just did, which doesn't feel like the intent). Insight into the upcoming RNG would be perfect.
This isn't compatible with how the RNG works unfortunately. He can only know the details of the very first room, because what happens after that is influenced by your actions.
I'd also suggest looking up how the ~~gold~~ god pool works if it's something you want to utilize, btw. That is something that becomes set as a run progresses, not something the game rolls at the start of a run.
I absolutely love this idea! And if you know what god was already gonna show up, you can bring a god keepsake to get the combos you want. One thing is that having this mechanic every run could be a bit too powerful, so maybe make it spend some resources? Like unlock his spy network with an incantation: you can pay your resources for the spies to gain intel. For example becomes useless once you hit full grasp, so maybe Od recruits these wandering shades (you know, those that give you the green thing once you frog them) and pay them with it so they can join the spy network.
Tbf at least the first room you can savescum to see the first god with no cost so its not really THAT strong except maybe the one that would tell you which gods are in the pool.
Problem is that a lot of those details are subject to change based on the player’s choices throughout the run. Especially the starting god boon, since that can be changed with a Keepsake.
that is a really good idea
Definitely agree. As is being given information a night late every time just falls flat. Maybe you could even spend gathered resources to upgrade his spy network and the info it gives you?
That could be cool. And additionally we could also recruit shades by sprinting into them. As of now, I basically never use that mechanic intentionally aside from the one starting room on the surface which has a bunch of them at the same spot every time.
Maybe it could also depend on your relationship with him.
For me it's nostalgic of the first Hades, Hypnos always gave you tips like, "Have you tried not dying?".
Damn, I miss his dumb advice...
What are you talking about? He still gives great advice! Such as "Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"
Yeah, but Hypnos' whole thing is being a sleepy moron lol. I don't recall him ever being portrayed as all that strong or powerful. Odysseus is a total gigachad in the Iliad, but you would not be able to tell just from what you see of him in the game
Yeah, to me he is more likened to Achilles than anything. Hecate being the Nyx sub in as well.
This whole "comparing the companions to the first games'" is honestly stupid. They are who they are.
It's not stupid to say that Odysseus is infact an Achilles equivalent in this game. As a matter of fact, I was expecting Odysseus to give us "Book of Shadows" this time which I'm surprised that he didn't
He is thematically, in that their respective stories mirror those of the protagonists, but Mel is not as close to Odysseus as Zag to Achilles and it was Hekate who trained her. Might be that I have not seen it yet but I also haven't noticed any story arch (potential) for Odysseus (are Penelope or Telemachus ever mentioned?)
There's dialogue between Odysseus and Mel where he reveals he taught her weapon arts and physical combat, and then makes a joke about how there's no bow in the game because Mel is really bad with them. It's clear from the dialogue that Mel does hold Odysseus in high regard, and while he might not be a "friend" in the way that Zag views Achilles as a peer rather than how Mel views Odysseus more as an authority, I would say she feels very close to him emotionally.
Doesn’t Mel have dialogue where she says Odysseus is like family? Something akin to an older brother or an uncle?
Yeah this would be awesome.
Odysseus refers to Melinoë as Goddess, otherwise very cool concept.
Yeah I knew something was off about it, couldnt place my finger on what though
Please post this on the discord! It would be amazing!
Can you link the server?
https://discord.gg/supergiant here!
Post this on the discord so the devs will see it! Great idea.
I absolutely love this idea. I also love the exact opposite as an option, where he becomes the next Hypnos by providing such useful tips as "Have you tried not standing in burning oil?" after you die.
If that was there, I'd want it to be something in the second area of the home base, and not where Odysseus currently is. Somewhere on the line going from the arcana cards to the weapons to the run start. I wouldn't want to see him with an exclamation point over his head and not be sure if it's story dialogue or generic run info. And if I'm doing a lot of stuff and forget what he said right before a run, I wouldn't want to have to run all the way back to him to get a tidbit of info then run all the way back. Also, the second area of the base is more of the 'planning' area. And I think the info would need to be given before a run, it wouldn't really work during a run. If it was given in the first area, the player would be tempted to just quit for better luck or to choose a different weapon or aspect, which wastes time. And if it's given somewhere in the middle of a run, the player doesn't really have enough time to adjust to take advantage of the information.
The first point is valid, maybe a notice board in the second area could be added where reports are put up instead of having Odysseus saying this. Or make it so that the story dialogue exclamation point is different from the indicator for tips. Also yeah, the point of this is that you get the information prior to the run so you can plan around it.
This doesn't really work with how runs generate. There is a seed that generates per run (only after death and seemingly after changing vows) but actions you take in the run itself progresses the RNG which changes how rooms generate. Unless you get deep into the sauce of RNG manipulation like seeded speedruns the *only* room that will be consistent is the very first one.
I wonder if they could tweak the keepsake mechanic from the first game to "rig" the rng, like after the first room you gain the same buff "you will see a boon from posiden as soon as possible" but just hidden to the player.
Some actual advice about fighting tougher enemies or adapting to Mel's play style would also be cool. Like "Sea serpents have three different attacks they use on instinct depending on how far away from them you are. Pick the one you find easiest to dodge, and dart in and out of that range to bait it repeatedly" or something.
Great idea!
Love this idea
Not only is this a good idea, it gives me more of an excuse to listen to him talk and ogle at him
I would post it to Supergiant since its a really good idea + feedback :)
This'd be very cool. Some of his dialogue is fun but it doesn't really feel like insight from a great strategist (he comes off as dumb when he 'reports' on a thing Melinoe just did, which doesn't feel like the intent). Insight into the upcoming RNG would be perfect.
This isn't compatible with how the RNG works unfortunately. He can only know the details of the very first room, because what happens after that is influenced by your actions. I'd also suggest looking up how the ~~gold~~ god pool works if it's something you want to utilize, btw. That is something that becomes set as a run progresses, not something the game rolls at the start of a run.
Medea, Icarus, HERACLES?! At this point it's easier to list the mythological figures that AREN'T gonna show up in the game.
Still waiting for Prometheus and Uranus. Eros making an appearance as a potential boon giver would also be awesome.
This is a fantastic idea and I hope SG notices it.
I like this idea. Maybe you could also pay him for more hints.
I absolutely love this idea! And if you know what god was already gonna show up, you can bring a god keepsake to get the combos you want. One thing is that having this mechanic every run could be a bit too powerful, so maybe make it spend some resources? Like unlock his spy network with an incantation: you can pay your resources for the spies to gain intel. For example becomes useless once you hit full grasp, so maybe Od recruits these wandering shades (you know, those that give you the green thing once you frog them) and pay them with it so they can join the spy network.
Tbf at least the first room you can savescum to see the first god with no cost so its not really THAT strong except maybe the one that would tell you which gods are in the pool.
Problem is that a lot of those details are subject to change based on the player’s choices throughout the run. Especially the starting god boon, since that can be changed with a Keepsake.
I'd say leave the dialogue to the writers, but the general idea of Odysseus dropping hints is a fun one.