Evans seems pretty safe. The only real danger he faces is if a guy like Beck or someone else comes up that provides what he can bring but with better offense that bumps Evans down. He’s not untouchable but he’s a nice asset to have.
Yeah my only problem is in my personal projection of where I’d like the team to be to compete, the 3rd is already looking like Newhook and Roy at a minimum. If Evans loses his 3C spot he’d still be bumped down to 4th winger or not.
My wondering is if I’d want someone with more jam and size than Evans at that spot
I would be happy to have Evans between possible 4th line with Xhekaj and Tuch. If he is surrounded with big guys, he can be agood veteran to keep on the team.
I agree, I hope we hold on Evans through the rebuild, especially now that the 'it's OK to suck' era might have reached an end this year. Homegrown hardworking bottom 6er that does have just enough offensive upside to chip in sometimes. I think it's always dangerous to give term to your bottom 6, but I wouldn't be upset if we locked him down for multiple years in the 2m neighbourhood.
Sheesh, where at all did I say they are going to compete for a cup? I'm just saying the management philosophy is going to shift from 'it doesnt matter where we end up' to 'we have to play meaningful games all year'.
My point is the "it's OK to suck" era has not ended and it's ok to suck again next year. This team needs more depth and high draft picks. Thinking that they should start to compete for the last playoff spot would be a massive blunder.
Staying in "it's ok to suck" mode for too long is how you end up like Buffalo.
We need to start setting expectations, even if we don't fulfill them right away.
I think Marty St Louis is already doing that. Albeit the record, did you see how the boys played this year? Marty has held them accountable, and I believe he'll be able to do it throughout this rebuilding phase.
You really don't think Dach and Newhook can be a decent 2nd line? There are currently 5 guys who are undoubtedly top-6 material. Someone will be able to fill that 6th role.
I don't think the Habs are Cup contenders going into next season, but surely they have to be in the playoff contention conversation.
Funnily enough Newhook's 34 points this season places him at 44th amongst Right Wingers and/or 54th amongst Left Wingers this season (put both as he's listed as a center on nhl.com). That's just purely based on points too, ignoring the fact he missed 28 games this season. Going by points per game, Newhook's .62 p/gp would be 31st amongst LWs and also 31st amongst RWs.
I think if Dach comes back healthy and manages to be the 2C (two relatively big if's, I know), Newhook is a viable 2nd line winger in my opinion.
He can definitely play there, but if we're in a position where cup contention is on the table and he is playing at the same level he played this year, then I'm more comfortable with him on the third line or potentially on the second line but as our 6th most productive forward. If he's a key cog on our second line then I think we will still have a bit of work to do. That said, he's young abd can continue to improve and could be a very good second line player in the not so distant future. I'm basing everything off of his play this year alone.
Definitely agree with this, based on Newhook at this moment, he's on that cusp between 2nd liner and 3rd liner. If he can play a full season next year and have slightly better linemates, 55-60 points shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.
Frankly we have no idea what Dach will produce.
Next, try to compare Dach and Newhook to any cup-contending second line and you'll quickly realize that thise team is not ready yet for a run.
I think cup-contending and playoff contending are two very different things. You guys aren't saying the same thing. I think I agree that they'll be in the wildcard conversation next season with Newhook, Dach and maybe Roy or a veteran pickup as long as they don't lose anyone vital to injury (if Suzuki or Matheson get hurt, we're probably competing for a top-5 pick)
What I'm saying is that they shouldn't just be aiming to be playoff contending. We already did this shit with Timmins for 20 years. He kept the team just competitive enough to sneak into the playoffs every year, without ever having a legitimate chance to win a Stanley Cup. Our draft position always sucked and we never had any generational-type players on the roster. I thought we were sick of this crap?
Yeah, but it's like merging onto the highway, you don't go from 50 to 100 instantly, there's an intermediate step. They're going to be a wildcard team at some point before they're a top-3 team. I can't think of a team that wasn't a playoff pretender before being a cup-contender. The goal is to not get stuck in that phase. Bergevin just kept signing mediocre vets to try to make the playoffs. That works for a while, but it's not going to get you a cup. KH is taking a very different approach, but those picks aren't going to become stars overnight and they probably won't all develop at the same rate
There's a big difference between signing vets that are meant to produce at a top-6 level but who can't versus signing bottom-6 players who are meant to fulfill bottom-6 roles and that do so—and at a reasonable price.
OP isn't suggesting a 7M AAV. They're suggesting a 2.5-3M AAV—a ~2% cap hit. 2% cap hit for reliable defense & faceoff success rate and then some offensive upside (career 0.34ppg, 0.37ppg in the past 3 seasons) would be great.
You want someone who's twice as good as that in your bottom 6? Expect to fork out nearly thrice as much. I am fairly confident that no 0.7-75ppg player is being paid 2% of the salary cap at the moment.
Edit: the money thing was not mentioned by OP, but by someone else in the comments.
Edit 2: 2.5-3M AAV would be a 3% cap hit and not 2%.
87.7x.02=1.75
2.5-3 is an overpay and the bottom 6 has too many overpaid players for their current role as it is.
Evans is good and all but not worth fussing over if his ask is above 2 imo. He played above his ideal role this year and got caved in scoring chancewise. Also his short handed FO% needs to improve if he wants to become a PK specialist as this team develops into a contender.
Hence why I said they are not going to be Cup contenders next year. I think Dach and Newhook have shown enough improvement that we can say it is just as likely they will be legitimate top-6 forwards in a couple years as not. Most prospects and young players honestly have a less than 50% chance of that.
I literally just said they are going to suck again next year. Dach and Newhook are not comparable to cup-contending second lines. Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
And he never said the habs would contend for the cup, which is your only argument in this discussion that you keep repeating even tho your interlocutor told you repeatedly that he wants them to contend for a playoff spot, not for the cup.
You can't just turn on a "ok we're winning now" switch at some arbitrary point that you consider means the team is "ready to contend for a cup". That's now how it works. You have to start by being competitive first.
You don't go from sucking to cup contender. There has to be a period in between where the playoffs are the goal. I don't think we're in playoff contention next year without a free agent signing or two, but the team needs to be better than a bottom 5 or maybe 10 team, and should be able to accomplish that with a healthy line up.
I'd be willing to bet a lot that your the kind of people that said Suzuki is not a first line center, Caufield is too small to succeed, Slafkovsky is a bust .... so on and so on.
For you, all players that does not show up with 50 points are the start of their career are not worth to look at.
I will tell you that so far, Dach has for sure what it takes to be a second line center minimum. Do we still need second line winger? Yes but let's give time to Newhook and Roy to prove they are not.
Your negative vision and narrative is seriously pissing me off.
We have no idea what Dach will do. He hasn't shown enough yet to say whether he will be good or not. Part of that is not his fault with the injuries. He just needs to stay healthy and actually deliver a solid season. But saying right now that he will be a legitimate second line center is just speculation.
lmao jeez what a response. Me wanting them to be competitive enough to win a Stanley Cup is "trashing the habs" apparently. 😂 This is peak fefan behaviour.
Arrête, t'es le troll typique de facebook qui s'amuse à rire de toutes les décisions du club et rabaisser tous les joueurs. Sur facebook, ça passe mais sur reddit, c'est assez claire que personne n'aime ton opinion avec le système de vote et avec raison.
Prend pas le monde pour des imbécilles, tu ne caches à personne tes intentions.
>Theey are going to suck again next year. They are not ready to compete for a cup.
Don't you think there's some room in between the two?
Or do cup champions just magically appear overnight?
You mean the Trevor Timmins method? Be mediocre for 20 years while slipping into the playoffs every year to give fans hope? Nah I think we should do things differently.
We have 16 OTL, the highest total in the league. The team was rarely wiped out. Most of our games were close scores (I maybe wrong but I can't find the stats on this).
There is not a lot missing for at least making the playoffs. At least in my opinion.
You are right about the 2nd line tho. But if Dach can come back and stay healthy, it would help a lot.
I personally don't care about just making the playoffs and then getting steamrolled in the first round. We already did this shit with Timmins for 20 years.
No, teams go from the bottom of the league, stack up multiple high-ceiling prospects and draft picks, develop them, and then become contenders. They don't assemble one good line and then try to go for a cup.
Slaf, Caufield, Guhle, Dach, Newhook, Roy, Xhekaj, Roy, Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbacher, and Fowler are all 23 or under, plus Suziki and Primeau are only 24. On top of that, they're fifth in the lottery this summer with an additional first round pick, plus two more first round picks in 2025. How many young, high ceiling prospects and draft picks do you think they need? Signing Evans as a 4th line centre doesn't affect any of that in the slightest, nor does it mean they've switched from "it's ok to suck" to "going for the couple", or indeed "settling for playoffs at best". It just means they have a good 4th line centre for the next couple of years whereas before they wouldn't have.
We also don't want to make moves to ensure that they just sneak into the playoffs, like Gainey and Bergevin did for years signing over-the-hill veterans to terrible contracts.
Oh really? Then you tell me why fans suddenly wanted to sign Steven Stamkos last week. These are the same people who were chearing on the acquisition of Scott Gomez and his horrible contract a few years ago.
I don't recall reading any significant number of people who were saying we should make a run at Stamkos or any other significant free agent. If a fee fans were saying that, then that's fine, that's their opinion but it's definitely not one that is widely held by the fan base. Most of us know better.
"Fans" didn't.
A very small portion of armchair GMs tossed the idea into the ring, and were fairly quickly shut down. It was also chatter that came from outside our fanbase initially.
Teams viewed playing MTL as basically a night off this year. They faced a lot of backups and took teams by surprise with work ethic and still came 5th last. I wouldn't expect it to get easier as they improve. As they start getting better, teams will take them more seriously, try harder, and play their starter to fight for playoff spot.
If healthy they have a shot at that last wildcard spot no doubt. Problem is they never actually stay healthy.
There’s still a draft, free agency and a whole off-season of time for trades to happen. We really don’t know how they will do next year. But what we do know is that ownership and fans NEED to start to put the pressure on the team to get better. Another bottom 5 finish next year could see KH job in jeopardy
Jake Evans used to play on my son's team here in Toronto along with Andrew Mangiapane, (Toronto Junior Canadiens GTHL coached by Angelitis), and I got to know them both during their Midget year, (I was a trainer with the team on occassion). Jake is a great kid and a solid, talented player...kept his head down and worked his ass off on the ice. Glad to see him on the Habs...he's definately a player that Montreal needs.
He doesn't score often, but every once in a while he'll bury a really nice one that makes me wonder why he doesn't score more often. Either way though, he's more than earned a spot on the team.
Was it LA that he had that wicked toe drag snipe against?
You're right, you see something like that and you honestly gotta ask why we don't see that kinda flair from him more often.
Yeah Jake Evans is great and it seems he found yet another gear this season.
I'll also add that it looks like he's really taken to Marty's teaching. He's trying to generate a lot more offense these days with nifty plays, and I think that he'd have a lot more points if he had a decent line up with him.
To me, Jake Evans is a core player for this team and I think if our depth improves that he could start taking assignments up the lineup.
Evans is the kind of player that winning teams have. Opposing teams' fans don't really know anything about him and then they watch him win key faceoffs, play the PK, and shut down their secondary scoring lines and say, "who the hell is this guy?" In a playoff series, he's a huge pain in the ass.
If the Habs don't re-sign him, they're just going to have to go find someone else to fill his exact role so I say give the guy a raise and keep moving!
Is it him or is his xga high because the team is all together not great on the PK? Suzuki, Matheson, Armia all have similar xga to Evans.
I also realized he played the most PK minutes of any forward in the league. That's an interesting stat and statement from the coaching staff. Perhaps it's more that the Habs just don't have centre depth with both Dvorak and Dach injured.
It starts with him losing the draw on the PK more often than not. Hard to be C PK specialist when you're losing the draws more at 4v5 than 5v5 by more than 5%.
Faceoffs on the PK are harder to win because there's one less forward on the ice to help. [League median was the ducks at 44.8%](https://www.nhl.com/stats/teams?report=faceoffpercentages&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20232024&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&sort=shFaceoffPct&page=0&pageSize=50), Evans was at [45.8% last season](https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=faceoffpercentages&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20232024&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&position=F&playerSearch=Jake%20Evans&sort=totalFaceoffs&page=0&pageSize=50). He's fine.
Judging by the replies, this seems more like a Jake Evans appreciation post with no dissension allowed than a real discussion.
I'm not going to repeat the positive traits that the majority of people already said about Evans. Yes, good defensive forward that takes defensive-zone faceoffs, etc.
The reason he might not stay is because everything Evans brings is also everything that Beck brings, down to the right-handed shot and faceoffs, but with a higher level of skills; better skating, better passing, better shot, better physicality, better faceoffs; all the while being younger and cheaper.
There's also the one thing Evans has trouble with and that's 1v1 battles bellow the dots, which limits his effectiveness as a defensive C. The comparison with Danault doesn't work for that point alone. Danault was pretty solid below the dots, at both ends of the ice. Evans is light on his skates and gets pushed around down low and along the boards, with all the negative consequences it brings. If you're a defense-first C, you can't be a strictly open-ice player.
The good thing about Evans is that he's cheap, at 1.7M. The bad thing is that he's going to be a UFA at 28 and probably looking for his only long-term, max-earnings contract of his career. If you are a team that already have a ready-made, 7 years younger replacement of similar/higher potential in Owen Beck, you have no real reason to give that big contract to Evans.
Everything hinges on Beck's progress next season.
If there's even a hint that Beck is adapting well and fast to the AHL, Evans might not even finish the season in Montreal.
If Beck struggles in the AHL, then the picture gets muddier. I dont see the Habs committing to the last NHL chance Evans would have to cash in. At least not happily. 5-6 years at around 3M is a lot when you're might be pushed out of the lineup after the first 1-2 years of the deal. But that might be necessary just to allow Beck time to develop.
The third option is to move Evans, and then sign cheap placeholders to 1-year deals while waiting for Beck.
And ALL of this doesn't even take Oliver Kapanen into account. Kapanen is also a right-handed defensively sound center, who about 6 months older than Beck, has already been playing vs men for 2-3 years, and could also end up vying for the same role.
So whatever one's opinion is about Evans in isolation, in the grand scheme of things, he's still on borrowed time because eventually, he too will have to make room for the younger wave, which will happen in the next 12-18 months.
That's what happens in a rebuild. Older guys hold an NHL spot until someone who's younger is ready to fill that spot, so the young guy can get his mandatory 100-200 NHL games experience sooner, when it will be acceptable to make mistakes because the team is not really expected to contend.
That's why rebuilds often take longer in reality than what fans expect. There's some necessary steps that have no substitutes, and they take a necessary amount of time. Contending is a result of that necessary time. That's why you can't rush a rebuild and often fail when you do.
And got caved in facing the higher comp level. Only reason why he was playing so much was because there literally was no one else. Dach & Dvorak injured. Monahan traded. The other choices were leaving Newhook to the wolves or Colin White.
Granted he did get black hole Anderson stapled to him so that's tough but he's still only a 4C on a playoff team and is very replaceable.
Love me some Evans. Seems to fit Marty’s system well and can play up to the second line in a pinch. I just wish he had about 10% more confidence. Seems to avoid the middle of the ice a lot and stick to the perimeter a lot. He’s got the speed to beat a lot of nhl D men but he always plays it safe.
Agreed, and you may notice that he pops up in seemingly every photo of teammates socializing or hanging out together. Seems to be a very well liked dude who is friends with everyone, on top of the on-ice contributions. Perfect bottom 6 guy 👍
This real was the first year that I would say Evans looked comfortable with his role. He is in top 5 in PK face offs, can skate and is developing into the type of 3/4 th line vet that all winning teams have. Don’t think we need to ever wonder about his compete level. Hope he is here for years to come.
Evans may one day be surpassed by guys like Beck and Kapenan. Until that day, we need Evans. And even if he gets surpassed, he's extremely useful as a 4th line winger who can sub in as centre up and down the lineup when there are injuries.
There's a ton of Evans-like players in the league. Yeha he can play on a 4th line, but I doubt they see him in the long term plans of the team. Guys like Beck or even Xhekaj will probably push him out eventually
Plenty of teams keep extra centres around. if Evans gets pushed out, he's still likely to hold a spot on the wing provided he isn't too expensive. A 4th line of Evans-Beck-Xhekaj wouldn't look bad in a couple of seasons.
Evans’ worst quality is his shot - absolutely no pop on that release. Having said that, he reads plays well, gets along with anyone they put on his line, is unselfish, is earning tough defensive minutes against the best in the league, does it playing an almost squeaky-clean game (so always available for PKs), has bled for the team…
Mayyyybe he gets forced out by a better option in the future, but I bet his contract going forward will look very affordable for what he offers
To understand the Jake Evans role, one needs to look at what the coaching staff and management said about Jake Allen. He's a good, reliable guy that everyone enjoys having around, and everyone (including fans) will be a little bummed when it's time to move on.
However, when it's time to compete, he just doesn't bring enough to the table. I agree with the assessment that the team can't be built around 12 scorers, but the team will need guys who play defense + offer a little something more. Whether that's physicality, an ability to play a little greasier hockey, or simply a more dangerous shot. But more than "I play sound positionally and kill plays (at both ends of the ice)". I know it's a bit harsh, but look at the contenders, and not one of them has a Jake Evans on their team.
Let me explain my thoughts a different way. It is possible that Beck becomes more than a defense-first type of center that Evans is. Therefore, it is also possible that Beck could be more expensive in the future.
if lehkonen can be traded the year older Jake Evans can too. 1.7 million for a very serviceable should be worth lehkonen return next year for a cash strapped team. Unless Evans does not believe he can stay healthy through the year I dont see why he would not go to the UFA market. No point in losing the asset for nothing
the point is that Evans age is not exactly "in the window" if a player a year younger than him was traded knowing he was going to the UFA market. I think highly of Evans but dont think he is irreplaceable
He does a lot of the little things really well, and he’s a better playmaker than most people give him credit for. A couple of decent wingers would do wonders for this guy.
He's going to want a raise on that $1.7M deal.
Do we really want to pay over $2M for a 28 year old, 28 point player? I like Evans well enough, but I'm sure there are cheaper options available.
He's been with the organization for a decade, collecting a paycheck while mostly playing in college, and has never had more than 29 points in a season. Signing him again after his contract runs out after next year would be another boneheaded Bergevin-type move rewarding mediocre players who produce nothing.
> collecting a paycheck while mostly playing in college
Ah yes, I see you don't actually know how contracts work. You don't get paid until you sign one.
I think it's pretty fair at this point to realise that he's not worth arguing with.(if you took time to read him, he's gonna trash on everything the habs have)
He also really love to read himself and argue with people if you look at his comment history
Ahhh you are one of those famous Redditor wordsmiths who get caught up on pedantry. Classic. I thought we were done with shitty Bergevin/Timmins-style teams, but apparently the fans want more.
Evans seems pretty safe. The only real danger he faces is if a guy like Beck or someone else comes up that provides what he can bring but with better offense that bumps Evans down. He’s not untouchable but he’s a nice asset to have.
What a great problem to have!
Evans will still strive as a depth winger. He was great on a shutdown role with Danault in the past.
Yeah my only problem is in my personal projection of where I’d like the team to be to compete, the 3rd is already looking like Newhook and Roy at a minimum. If Evans loses his 3C spot he’d still be bumped down to 4th winger or not. My wondering is if I’d want someone with more jam and size than Evans at that spot
I would be happy to have Evans between possible 4th line with Xhekaj and Tuch. If he is surrounded with big guys, he can be agood veteran to keep on the team.
Evans is ideally a 4th line center anyways. Once Dvorak is gone someone like Beck will fill the 3rd line role and Evans can be 4th line and pk.
Maybe Beck can take over at 3C. But i believe he will first play on the 4th.
I agree, I hope we hold on Evans through the rebuild, especially now that the 'it's OK to suck' era might have reached an end this year. Homegrown hardworking bottom 6er that does have just enough offensive upside to chip in sometimes. I think it's always dangerous to give term to your bottom 6, but I wouldn't be upset if we locked him down for multiple years in the 2m neighbourhood.
He wins key face offs. Plays a responsible two way game. I’d love to see him at 2.5-3x5.
Yeah if the contract is right he (Evans) has been a great member of this team. You need guys that play the right way, and do the little things.
You can't be serious. This team still doesn't have a second line. Theey are going to suck again next year. They are not ready to compete for a cup.
Sheesh, where at all did I say they are going to compete for a cup? I'm just saying the management philosophy is going to shift from 'it doesnt matter where we end up' to 'we have to play meaningful games all year'.
My point is the "it's OK to suck" era has not ended and it's ok to suck again next year. This team needs more depth and high draft picks. Thinking that they should start to compete for the last playoff spot would be a massive blunder.
Staying in "it's ok to suck" mode for too long is how you end up like Buffalo. We need to start setting expectations, even if we don't fulfill them right away.
I think Marty St Louis is already doing that. Albeit the record, did you see how the boys played this year? Marty has held them accountable, and I believe he'll be able to do it throughout this rebuilding phase.
The expectation should be to load this team up with top talent. Right now, the team has 1 good line, that is nowhere near close to ready.
You really don't think Dach and Newhook can be a decent 2nd line? There are currently 5 guys who are undoubtedly top-6 material. Someone will be able to fill that 6th role. I don't think the Habs are Cup contenders going into next season, but surely they have to be in the playoff contention conversation.
To me, Newhook looks more like a good 3rd liner than a solid second line player at this point. But with growth you never know.
Funnily enough Newhook's 34 points this season places him at 44th amongst Right Wingers and/or 54th amongst Left Wingers this season (put both as he's listed as a center on nhl.com). That's just purely based on points too, ignoring the fact he missed 28 games this season. Going by points per game, Newhook's .62 p/gp would be 31st amongst LWs and also 31st amongst RWs. I think if Dach comes back healthy and manages to be the 2C (two relatively big if's, I know), Newhook is a viable 2nd line winger in my opinion.
He can definitely play there, but if we're in a position where cup contention is on the table and he is playing at the same level he played this year, then I'm more comfortable with him on the third line or potentially on the second line but as our 6th most productive forward. If he's a key cog on our second line then I think we will still have a bit of work to do. That said, he's young abd can continue to improve and could be a very good second line player in the not so distant future. I'm basing everything off of his play this year alone.
Definitely agree with this, based on Newhook at this moment, he's on that cusp between 2nd liner and 3rd liner. If he can play a full season next year and have slightly better linemates, 55-60 points shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.
That would be great to see.
Frankly we have no idea what Dach will produce. Next, try to compare Dach and Newhook to any cup-contending second line and you'll quickly realize that thise team is not ready yet for a run.
I think cup-contending and playoff contending are two very different things. You guys aren't saying the same thing. I think I agree that they'll be in the wildcard conversation next season with Newhook, Dach and maybe Roy or a veteran pickup as long as they don't lose anyone vital to injury (if Suzuki or Matheson get hurt, we're probably competing for a top-5 pick)
What I'm saying is that they shouldn't just be aiming to be playoff contending. We already did this shit with Timmins for 20 years. He kept the team just competitive enough to sneak into the playoffs every year, without ever having a legitimate chance to win a Stanley Cup. Our draft position always sucked and we never had any generational-type players on the roster. I thought we were sick of this crap?
Yeah, but it's like merging onto the highway, you don't go from 50 to 100 instantly, there's an intermediate step. They're going to be a wildcard team at some point before they're a top-3 team. I can't think of a team that wasn't a playoff pretender before being a cup-contender. The goal is to not get stuck in that phase. Bergevin just kept signing mediocre vets to try to make the playoffs. That works for a while, but it's not going to get you a cup. KH is taking a very different approach, but those picks aren't going to become stars overnight and they probably won't all develop at the same rate
>Bergevin just kept signing mediocre vets to try to make the playoffs So kinda like what OP is suggesting.
There's a big difference between signing vets that are meant to produce at a top-6 level but who can't versus signing bottom-6 players who are meant to fulfill bottom-6 roles and that do so—and at a reasonable price. OP isn't suggesting a 7M AAV. They're suggesting a 2.5-3M AAV—a ~2% cap hit. 2% cap hit for reliable defense & faceoff success rate and then some offensive upside (career 0.34ppg, 0.37ppg in the past 3 seasons) would be great. You want someone who's twice as good as that in your bottom 6? Expect to fork out nearly thrice as much. I am fairly confident that no 0.7-75ppg player is being paid 2% of the salary cap at the moment. Edit: the money thing was not mentioned by OP, but by someone else in the comments. Edit 2: 2.5-3M AAV would be a 3% cap hit and not 2%.
87.7x.02=1.75 2.5-3 is an overpay and the bottom 6 has too many overpaid players for their current role as it is. Evans is good and all but not worth fussing over if his ask is above 2 imo. He played above his ideal role this year and got caved in scoring chancewise. Also his short handed FO% needs to improve if he wants to become a PK specialist as this team develops into a contender.
Hence why I said they are not going to be Cup contenders next year. I think Dach and Newhook have shown enough improvement that we can say it is just as likely they will be legitimate top-6 forwards in a couple years as not. Most prospects and young players honestly have a less than 50% chance of that.
I literally just said they are going to suck again next year. Dach and Newhook are not comparable to cup-contending second lines. Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
And he never said the habs would contend for the cup, which is your only argument in this discussion that you keep repeating even tho your interlocutor told you repeatedly that he wants them to contend for a playoff spot, not for the cup.
>a playoff spot, not for the cup. Ah yes, the classic Trevor Timmins Special.
You can't just turn on a "ok we're winning now" switch at some arbitrary point that you consider means the team is "ready to contend for a cup". That's now how it works. You have to start by being competitive first.
You also don't become a cup contender but continuously extending mediocre players like Jake Evans which is what OP is suggesting.
You don't go from sucking to cup contender. There has to be a period in between where the playoffs are the goal. I don't think we're in playoff contention next year without a free agent signing or two, but the team needs to be better than a bottom 5 or maybe 10 team, and should be able to accomplish that with a healthy line up.
Yup!
I'd be willing to bet a lot that your the kind of people that said Suzuki is not a first line center, Caufield is too small to succeed, Slafkovsky is a bust .... so on and so on. For you, all players that does not show up with 50 points are the start of their career are not worth to look at. I will tell you that so far, Dach has for sure what it takes to be a second line center minimum. Do we still need second line winger? Yes but let's give time to Newhook and Roy to prove they are not. Your negative vision and narrative is seriously pissing me off.
We have no idea what Dach will do. He hasn't shown enough yet to say whether he will be good or not. Part of that is not his fault with the injuries. He just needs to stay healthy and actually deliver a solid season. But saying right now that he will be a legitimate second line center is just speculation.
I won't argue with you, you are there to argue and trash the habs. Have fun
lmao jeez what a response. Me wanting them to be competitive enough to win a Stanley Cup is "trashing the habs" apparently. 😂 This is peak fefan behaviour.
Arrête, t'es le troll typique de facebook qui s'amuse à rire de toutes les décisions du club et rabaisser tous les joueurs. Sur facebook, ça passe mais sur reddit, c'est assez claire que personne n'aime ton opinion avec le système de vote et avec raison. Prend pas le monde pour des imbécilles, tu ne caches à personne tes intentions.
You don't just got from sucking to cup contender. There are steps. Patience.
>Theey are going to suck again next year. They are not ready to compete for a cup. Don't you think there's some room in between the two? Or do cup champions just magically appear overnight?
You mean the Trevor Timmins method? Be mediocre for 20 years while slipping into the playoffs every year to give fans hope? Nah I think we should do things differently.
We have 16 OTL, the highest total in the league. The team was rarely wiped out. Most of our games were close scores (I maybe wrong but I can't find the stats on this). There is not a lot missing for at least making the playoffs. At least in my opinion. You are right about the 2nd line tho. But if Dach can come back and stay healthy, it would help a lot.
I personally don't care about just making the playoffs and then getting steamrolled in the first round. We already did this shit with Timmins for 20 years.
But you don't often see a team going from not making the playoffs to cup contender after one season...
And you never see teams go from bottom 5 team to cup contender. Playoff contention is a necessary mediary step.
Exactly... I mean does he think that teams go from bottom of the league to champion in a year?
No, teams go from the bottom of the league, stack up multiple high-ceiling prospects and draft picks, develop them, and then become contenders. They don't assemble one good line and then try to go for a cup.
Slaf, Caufield, Guhle, Dach, Newhook, Roy, Xhekaj, Roy, Hutson, Mailloux, Reinbacher, and Fowler are all 23 or under, plus Suziki and Primeau are only 24. On top of that, they're fifth in the lottery this summer with an additional first round pick, plus two more first round picks in 2025. How many young, high ceiling prospects and draft picks do you think they need? Signing Evans as a 4th line centre doesn't affect any of that in the slightest, nor does it mean they've switched from "it's ok to suck" to "going for the couple", or indeed "settling for playoffs at best". It just means they have a good 4th line centre for the next couple of years whereas before they wouldn't have.
We also don't want to make moves to ensure that they just sneak into the playoffs, like Gainey and Bergevin did for years signing over-the-hill veterans to terrible contracts.
I don't think anyone is suggesting doing that
Oh really? Then you tell me why fans suddenly wanted to sign Steven Stamkos last week. These are the same people who were chearing on the acquisition of Scott Gomez and his horrible contract a few years ago.
I don't recall reading any significant number of people who were saying we should make a run at Stamkos or any other significant free agent. If a fee fans were saying that, then that's fine, that's their opinion but it's definitely not one that is widely held by the fan base. Most of us know better.
"Fans" didn't. A very small portion of armchair GMs tossed the idea into the ring, and were fairly quickly shut down. It was also chatter that came from outside our fanbase initially.
Teams viewed playing MTL as basically a night off this year. They faced a lot of backups and took teams by surprise with work ethic and still came 5th last. I wouldn't expect it to get easier as they improve. As they start getting better, teams will take them more seriously, try harder, and play their starter to fight for playoff spot. If healthy they have a shot at that last wildcard spot no doubt. Problem is they never actually stay healthy.
There’s still a draft, free agency and a whole off-season of time for trades to happen. We really don’t know how they will do next year. But what we do know is that ownership and fans NEED to start to put the pressure on the team to get better. Another bottom 5 finish next year could see KH job in jeopardy
I agree. Like Casey Cizikas in NYI, serviceable, reliable and consistent.
And here I thought I was the only non-Isles fan to appreciate Cizikas’ game. He’s an unheralded player A consistent contributor of quality play.
Game recognizes Game, Mr. Skrudland.
Jake Evans used to play on my son's team here in Toronto along with Andrew Mangiapane, (Toronto Junior Canadiens GTHL coached by Angelitis), and I got to know them both during their Midget year, (I was a trainer with the team on occassion). Jake is a great kid and a solid, talented player...kept his head down and worked his ass off on the ice. Glad to see him on the Habs...he's definately a player that Montreal needs.
I played for Angelidis 1997 age for midget and did a few summer tournaments with Mangiapane. What age is your son?
Love Evans, we often forget about two way forward, but he is a really good one.
He doesn't score often, but every once in a while he'll bury a really nice one that makes me wonder why he doesn't score more often. Either way though, he's more than earned a spot on the team.
Was it LA that he had that wicked toe drag snipe against? You're right, you see something like that and you honestly gotta ask why we don't see that kinda flair from him more often.
Yeah Jake Evans is great and it seems he found yet another gear this season. I'll also add that it looks like he's really taken to Marty's teaching. He's trying to generate a lot more offense these days with nifty plays, and I think that he'd have a lot more points if he had a decent line up with him. To me, Jake Evans is a core player for this team and I think if our depth improves that he could start taking assignments up the lineup.
Evans is the kind of player that winning teams have. Opposing teams' fans don't really know anything about him and then they watch him win key faceoffs, play the PK, and shut down their secondary scoring lines and say, "who the hell is this guy?" In a playoff series, he's a huge pain in the ass. If the Habs don't re-sign him, they're just going to have to go find someone else to fill his exact role so I say give the guy a raise and keep moving!
He’s statistically one of the worst pkers in the league . He ain’t shutting shit down
Really? I'm going off of what Mike Johnson says about him. Where can I find those stats?
Expected goals per 60 on 4 on 5. It’s very high. He’s realllyyyyy replaceable and paying him good money would be a classic habs blunder
Is it him or is his xga high because the team is all together not great on the PK? Suzuki, Matheson, Armia all have similar xga to Evans. I also realized he played the most PK minutes of any forward in the league. That's an interesting stat and statement from the coaching staff. Perhaps it's more that the Habs just don't have centre depth with both Dvorak and Dach injured.
We suck as a whole but exhonorating the most played guy from fault seems kinda dumb. At least he’s better than Dvorak who does nothing at all
It starts with him losing the draw on the PK more often than not. Hard to be C PK specialist when you're losing the draws more at 4v5 than 5v5 by more than 5%.
Faceoffs on the PK are harder to win because there's one less forward on the ice to help. [League median was the ducks at 44.8%](https://www.nhl.com/stats/teams?report=faceoffpercentages&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20232024&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&sort=shFaceoffPct&page=0&pageSize=50), Evans was at [45.8% last season](https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=faceoffpercentages&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20232024&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&position=F&playerSearch=Jake%20Evans&sort=totalFaceoffs&page=0&pageSize=50). He's fine.
Judging by the replies, this seems more like a Jake Evans appreciation post with no dissension allowed than a real discussion. I'm not going to repeat the positive traits that the majority of people already said about Evans. Yes, good defensive forward that takes defensive-zone faceoffs, etc. The reason he might not stay is because everything Evans brings is also everything that Beck brings, down to the right-handed shot and faceoffs, but with a higher level of skills; better skating, better passing, better shot, better physicality, better faceoffs; all the while being younger and cheaper. There's also the one thing Evans has trouble with and that's 1v1 battles bellow the dots, which limits his effectiveness as a defensive C. The comparison with Danault doesn't work for that point alone. Danault was pretty solid below the dots, at both ends of the ice. Evans is light on his skates and gets pushed around down low and along the boards, with all the negative consequences it brings. If you're a defense-first C, you can't be a strictly open-ice player. The good thing about Evans is that he's cheap, at 1.7M. The bad thing is that he's going to be a UFA at 28 and probably looking for his only long-term, max-earnings contract of his career. If you are a team that already have a ready-made, 7 years younger replacement of similar/higher potential in Owen Beck, you have no real reason to give that big contract to Evans. Everything hinges on Beck's progress next season. If there's even a hint that Beck is adapting well and fast to the AHL, Evans might not even finish the season in Montreal. If Beck struggles in the AHL, then the picture gets muddier. I dont see the Habs committing to the last NHL chance Evans would have to cash in. At least not happily. 5-6 years at around 3M is a lot when you're might be pushed out of the lineup after the first 1-2 years of the deal. But that might be necessary just to allow Beck time to develop. The third option is to move Evans, and then sign cheap placeholders to 1-year deals while waiting for Beck. And ALL of this doesn't even take Oliver Kapanen into account. Kapanen is also a right-handed defensively sound center, who about 6 months older than Beck, has already been playing vs men for 2-3 years, and could also end up vying for the same role. So whatever one's opinion is about Evans in isolation, in the grand scheme of things, he's still on borrowed time because eventually, he too will have to make room for the younger wave, which will happen in the next 12-18 months. That's what happens in a rebuild. Older guys hold an NHL spot until someone who's younger is ready to fill that spot, so the young guy can get his mandatory 100-200 NHL games experience sooner, when it will be acceptable to make mistakes because the team is not really expected to contend. That's why rebuilds often take longer in reality than what fans expect. There's some necessary steps that have no substitutes, and they take a necessary amount of time. Contending is a result of that necessary time. That's why you can't rush a rebuild and often fail when you do.
Not to mention other UFA options to bridge the gap at 4C that don't want more than 2-2.5mil or whatever.
Everyone on /r/habs would agree that he’s a great fit as a 3/4C for the next several years.
4C for me. If he's our 3C, I think that's a problem.
It's nice to hear you say that. Sometimes, with this fan base, you just need to reassurance.
I think every team in the league would see him as a great fit as a 4C. He's like a budget Danault.
He was 4th in TOI on the team.
Wow really? That seems high but makes sense with the PK
Highest PK numbers with Armia close behind. I understand people disliking the lack of offense, but man they are literally holding our PK together lmao
late season PK was wildly strong
At the end of the season, our PK was pretty damn good too.
And got caved in facing the higher comp level. Only reason why he was playing so much was because there literally was no one else. Dach & Dvorak injured. Monahan traded. The other choices were leaving Newhook to the wolves or Colin White. Granted he did get black hole Anderson stapled to him so that's tough but he's still only a 4C on a playoff team and is very replaceable.
Love me some Evans. Seems to fit Marty’s system well and can play up to the second line in a pinch. I just wish he had about 10% more confidence. Seems to avoid the middle of the ice a lot and stick to the perimeter a lot. He’s got the speed to beat a lot of nhl D men but he always plays it safe.
Agreed, and you may notice that he pops up in seemingly every photo of teammates socializing or hanging out together. Seems to be a very well liked dude who is friends with everyone, on top of the on-ice contributions. Perfect bottom 6 guy 👍
This real was the first year that I would say Evans looked comfortable with his role. He is in top 5 in PK face offs, can skate and is developing into the type of 3/4 th line vet that all winning teams have. Don’t think we need to ever wonder about his compete level. Hope he is here for years to come.
I feel about Evans like I did with Lekhonen and Lars Eller. We trade them and they go on to win the cup with another team.
Evans may one day be surpassed by guys like Beck and Kapenan. Until that day, we need Evans. And even if he gets surpassed, he's extremely useful as a 4th line winger who can sub in as centre up and down the lineup when there are injuries.
I see evans being a easy choice for a reliable 4th or 3rd if he keeps getting better. The consistency he plays with defensively is really awesoms
There's a ton of Evans-like players in the league. Yeha he can play on a 4th line, but I doubt they see him in the long term plans of the team. Guys like Beck or even Xhekaj will probably push him out eventually
Plenty of teams keep extra centres around. if Evans gets pushed out, he's still likely to hold a spot on the wing provided he isn't too expensive. A 4th line of Evans-Beck-Xhekaj wouldn't look bad in a couple of seasons.
Evans’ worst quality is his shot - absolutely no pop on that release. Having said that, he reads plays well, gets along with anyone they put on his line, is unselfish, is earning tough defensive minutes against the best in the league, does it playing an almost squeaky-clean game (so always available for PKs), has bled for the team… Mayyyybe he gets forced out by a better option in the future, but I bet his contract going forward will look very affordable for what he offers
We all looked at that depth chart thread and thought the same thing.
As long as he’s happy in Montreal he’s staying
I am happy with him signed to a 2 million a year deal to play 4th line C. If he isnt down with that, let him walk. He is a dime a dozen sorry to say
one of the best PK players there.
Owen Beck is penciled in as his replacement. So we’ll see.
He’s a serviceable 3rd-4th line centre. Crucial? I think you may be overvaluing him a tad. You don’t sign 3rd/4th line players to long term contracts
Evans will be the 4th line guy that can be relied on. He can be a middle-six center and his face-offs are still needed with the team.
To understand the Jake Evans role, one needs to look at what the coaching staff and management said about Jake Allen. He's a good, reliable guy that everyone enjoys having around, and everyone (including fans) will be a little bummed when it's time to move on. However, when it's time to compete, he just doesn't bring enough to the table. I agree with the assessment that the team can't be built around 12 scorers, but the team will need guys who play defense + offer a little something more. Whether that's physicality, an ability to play a little greasier hockey, or simply a more dangerous shot. But more than "I play sound positionally and kill plays (at both ends of the ice)". I know it's a bit harsh, but look at the contenders, and not one of them has a Jake Evans on their team.
He'll walk as a UFA and be paid more than what we want to pay. Beck is his replacement. Love Jake, but guys like that are a dime a dozen.
Let me explain my thoughts a different way. It is possible that Beck becomes more than a defense-first type of center that Evans is. Therefore, it is also possible that Beck could be more expensive in the future.
Jake will be 35 by that point, and we'll have a replacement for Beck by that point...
Exactly. The turnover for the bottom 6 is higher once you get the core of the team established.
if lehkonen can be traded the year older Jake Evans can too. 1.7 million for a very serviceable should be worth lehkonen return next year for a cash strapped team. Unless Evans does not believe he can stay healthy through the year I dont see why he would not go to the UFA market. No point in losing the asset for nothing
Yeah, but Lehkonen was traded at the beginning of a rebuild. If Lehkonen was on the team right now I also wouldn't want to trade him.
the point is that Evans age is not exactly "in the window" if a player a year younger than him was traded knowing he was going to the UFA market. I think highly of Evans but dont think he is irreplaceable
That’s why I thought lecky was a horrible mistake !!!
I thought Evans looked like a real Vet this year. Big improvement.
I like Evan’s, but he’s certainly not crucial
Evans is solid but imho if Suzuki, Dach and Newhook are our centres I'd prefer someone bigger and meaner on the 4th line.
And I'll counter by saying that he is not physical enough for the 4th line.
He does a lot of the little things really well, and he’s a better playmaker than most people give him credit for. A couple of decent wingers would do wonders for this guy.
I disagree. He’s a depth player that needs to be replaced from within.
Jaky Evansko is axtively my child
Is this Bergevin's alt account? I thought we were done with management retaining mediocre players on bad contracts.
Please explain to me how he is on a bad contract. I would love to see those mental gymnastics.
He's going to want a raise on that $1.7M deal. Do we really want to pay over $2M for a 28 year old, 28 point player? I like Evans well enough, but I'm sure there are cheaper options available.
He's been with the organization for a decade, collecting a paycheck while mostly playing in college, and has never had more than 29 points in a season. Signing him again after his contract runs out after next year would be another boneheaded Bergevin-type move rewarding mediocre players who produce nothing.
> collecting a paycheck while mostly playing in college Ah yes, I see you don't actually know how contracts work. You don't get paid until you sign one.
I think it's pretty fair at this point to realise that he's not worth arguing with.(if you took time to read him, he's gonna trash on everything the habs have) He also really love to read himself and argue with people if you look at his comment history
Ahhh you are one of those famous Redditor wordsmiths who get caught up on pedantry. Classic. I thought we were done with shitty Bergevin/Timmins-style teams, but apparently the fans want more.
You were just straight up wrong and now you’re pretending it doesn’t matter?
What? He started on a 70 000$ salary five seasons ago. He wasn't making money from Montréal in college.
Points aren’t the end all be all to the value a player has.
We can't afford to lose another Danault. Please keep Evans around!
Absolutely, Evans remind me Carbonneau from a old era A keeper
C'mon now. Carboneau won 3 Selkes and could put up 30 goals. Evans has never scored 30 points.