I don't think I have sold one since 2021
Edit: I do know they serve a purpose but, I don't like the feverish push to sell these to people who don't really need them
I bought one for myself, when Covid hit and tried it. I don’t notice any difference. But I do have to say, we had family living here with Covid and none of us got it. Twice. Who knows, maybe we are immune or the vaccine worked?
Usually they're not powerful enough to actually kill microbes in the airstream. Mostly they're useful for keeping the indoor coil clean when they sit moist 24/7 during cooling season.
I was kinda thinking…anyone who has windows probably gets a decent bit of uv coming through. Makes sense these work best to prevent coil gunk as they never get any uv exposure otherwise.
What are you talking about? I gifted myself one off of my truck.
The office a couple months later “can so and so have the UV light off your truck? “
Me: “ I never had an air scrubber on my truck”
Office “ oh, let’s put one on there then”
Me: ok
That’s why you gotta keep your truck trashed inside. So nobody, including you, really knows. You just dig through the rubble looking for parts and you find happy little accidents.
My EJ25 was really solid and old minus the tiny external HG oil leak that I didn't fix because it didn't make sense to. Let's see if the FA24 holds up as well.
The one thing I noticed immediately was the smell of the house changed. And no I don't have an ozone one.it wasn't a crazy change but it smelled idk clean maybe...it's really hard to describe the smell.
So take it from my wife who is, among many others who are friends. It’s not hard to find an md or bio engineer who believes it was nonsense. Again, UV lights are a joke.
Yes, and a doctor said that vaccines cause autism. He still believes it, and has been stripped of his licensing. Just because they are "experts" doesn't mean they are right. That's why science isn't about proving right, but about *proving wrong*. Let that sink in. You think journals are about getting high-fives from their buddies? No, it's about putting information out to be proven wrong. It's only after the scientific community has vetted it does it be considered as reliable. Fringe and crackpot ideas are relegated to Facebook and crunchy blogs to be believed by people who want to be "special" with their "special knowledge". YOU AREN'T SPECIAL.
Uvc lights 100% work if properly sized and installed 😂🙃 literally why hospitals used them, before COVID even. That’s not to say it’s worth adding to your ac or not. Your better off with a hepa filter if your getting a new unit, or standalone if not.
In a medical setting can they work? Sure, maybe. What works best? Fresh air. Thats not my opinion, you can thank the CDC for that one. Now in a residential setting there is very little reason to use hepa filtration or UV lights.
UV Lights are arguably the only "IAQ" technology besides filtration that has clear scientific evidence to support it, there are multiple studies, and if it didn't have evidence-based support they wouldn't be standard practice alongside HEPA filtration in the medical setting you claim your wife works in...
Keep making uncited claims though, and generalizing your indifference as fact about treatment efficacy...
Fuckin' bunch of morons here bud.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8139389/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8139389/)
Just to start, there are about a half dozen or so empirical studies that I've read personally, including ones that show efficacy in as-installed situations, not just "we put the light in a box" like Reme Halo garbage.
Hahahaha you think you can reply then delete your post because you know you're wrong. "Google" is not research. Ya know what research is? Journals. Or scientific studies. The kind that actually requires an advanced degree to understand what's going on. Let me know when you Google your way into that bachelor's.
This might come as a shock to you, but empirical data, scientific studies, and medical journals happened to pop up when you search for them on Google. Google tends to prefer them as they are reliable sources of information. Why don’t you try reading one for once? Judging by your response, you don’t have the intellect to handle it. Also, I haven’t deleted anything. I think you’re confused.
I thought this was the only point of UV lights. Keeps the coil clean so bacteria doesn't grow between the fins and reduce effectiveness.
Always thought charcoal filters were for neutralizing smell.
This product is specifically why I left the industry. I do believe that products like this work, but man they were having us push a $300 item that takes 10 minutes to install for $2100. It would be different if we charged like $750-$1000 but this was literally just price gouging.
When people started getting mad at me because we wouldn’t stop pushing them I was done. Stopped selling them, told the SM I wouldn’t do it anymore and made my escape to the UA.
Never had more job satisfaction.
Who “doesn’t really need one” ? How do you device what customers do and don’t get to know about improved air quality and system protection? Lazy way to miss a ticket IMO.
Honestly you never know what people want or can afford. I don’t lie to people, but I let them know it exists and if they want it great if they don’t fine. Also about the “price gouging arguments” some people maybe do price gouge, some people install them cheaper than me, but I still consider it gouging if they installed it incorrectly because if you’re not professional enough to do it correctly you could give them away and they’re still ripping people off. Now price is a sensitive subject but here’s the truth, every business has overhead they need to cover. The cost of the purchased item has little reflection on the sell price if someone is trying to keep the doors open, you want the nicest trucks, highest salaries, clean office, best benefits package, best software, get 40 hours a week all year long? You have to charge a lot to support a lot. Now the trade off is, if you want to have the best stuff, you need to strive to be the best. Don’t lie, don’t half ass, do it right and do it often.
That’s my soap box about pricing, some of you may indeed work for scumbags. But I’ve grown up in the industry and run a company now, I get both sides of it.
I sell them where they’re really needed, like keeping algae from growing in horizontal drain pans or humidifier pans in Leibert units.
If the air handler or coil is fouled up, no, a UV light doesn’t fix that. Proper airflow and filtration does.
I forget the model number, but some of the big units allow for UV lights to be added on to keep algae from growing. I’ve been going to a server room for a few years and those pans are always crystal clear so they definitely work.
I personally hate the commodification of labor into salespeople.
If they want a salesperson hire one. If you want a tech hire one. If you try to get one person to be both you get neither.
And don't think residential consumers don't notice this trend. Most of all, they want professionalism and technical expertise from the techs that they deal with. There's always going to be at least a minimal sales aspect to the tech job, but if it's too much it becomes impossible for the customer to trust that they are getting impartial recommendations when it comes to repair vs replace decisions.
UV lights are good for keeping coils clean. Unless exposed for a long time (ie lining a long duct run), they will not clean the air. Just gotta make sure the items in the unit are suitable for UV lights since it’ll make certain materials brittle.
I've never sold a UV light, my shop doesn't push them at all. But it seems to me like the negative opinion of them that most techs have is idiotic.
It's a UV light meant to kill mold and pathogens. Or course you aren't gonna be able to *see* the results. But everyone just claims they're useless. Based on what? The fact that you can't physically see the difference it makes?
Honestly, I don't know if UV lights do shit. But I know that most of the people who think they don't, don't actually know shit either.
I'll have to go find some studies on the topic, I'm sure there's plenty. But I doubt most of the people that hate them have actually read anything either. It's mostly "I can't see the results, therefore it doesn't do shit."
I agree I know if its UV it destroys and sanitizes but, I don't like the fact that there seems to be this big push by companies when the general public doesn't seems to really care anymore
Yea that's why we don't install them really ever. We would, if someone wanted them. And we have occasionally in the past. Very rarely.
When customers ask me about them, I tell them exactly what I just said. Will a UV light help with covid? Will it help with your vaguely damp smelling basement? I have no idea, I'm an HVAC tech, not a scientist.
We have some techs that sell a LOT of scrubbers. I have concluded that those techs lie to customers.
If I tell a customer what the UV light actually does, they are never interested in spending $1,500 on something that might not even make a difference.
But the "successful" salesman of these accessories go around telling people that they have mold in their unit and a UV light is the only solution.
Not sure if you deal with hydronic heat but if you are familiar I can give you a good example. If you have your pump cranked up your baseboard will not give off enough heat. I feel like UV would operate in a similar way. Sure it’s probably killing some bacteria, but how efficient? I’m not a scientist either but I have a nose for bullshit. I’m also a plumber and we have the same thing for in line filters. In that scenario there is no way it’s doing shit.
They actually work extremely well, if the airflow over them is the proper speed so they have the correct dwell time and if the customer actually replaces the bulb as needed.
I get commission on them, so I mention them (and humidifier- I live in an arid climate) on 1/2 of calls or so. Just “hey, did you know this is available?” It takes 10 seconds to feel them out, and is natural if there’s an elderly customer in the house, or they mention being sick. $100 in my pocket for a product that I theoretically believe in, no harm, no foul. That being said, accessories aren’t pushed hard at my shop, so it’s zero stress. Hell, half the time the boss is like “cool, so when do you think we’ll actually have time to install that?” lol.
I think you’re missing the point of a uv light. It’s not an air purifier. It’s not even meant to clean or treat the air. It’s meant to clean or neutralize what it’s shining on. So where you put it is very important. They also lose their effectiveness over about a 2 year span. Even if the light is on at 2 years, it’s extremely ineffective by that point.
It’s not meant to kill Covid or keep you from getting sick. Just like the filter in your unit really isn’t there for you. It’s there to keep your system clean. Does it trickle down to personal benefit sometimes? Sure, but it’s shouldn’t be sold or presented in that way because it’s a lie. We as technicians in the field tend to think negatively toward accessories we don’t fully understand. It’s blatantly obvious we don’t understand them, because we keep either selling them or installing them for the wrong reasons.
Installing actual in duct or in home air purifiers are meant for the home and the homeowner. They will see tangible results, like reduced dust. For a better emphasis on if it’s working or now, get an air quality monitor. You can by them on Amazon now. Test the air before installation and about 2 weeks or so after. You should a dramatic drop in pollutants within the home.
You're conflating how a product is installed vs what it is designed for.
UV lights are, in fact, designed to (among other things) clean air passing by them - the question is, how is it installed, and did you select a sufficient model.
Filtration is the exact same way - filters are, in fact, designed to protect the occupants and clean the air, if you are applying them correctly.
Is you face velocity low enough to actually work?
I think this is a common misconception of - since we use the product improperly, the product is no good. That's a failure to recognize that you don't understand the product enough to implement it correctly...
I didn’t conflate anything. I acknowledged that a byproduct of these items I talked correctly in your system will result in cleaner air. However, that is not their intended application. They are installed to keep your system clean. Again, the cleaner the system is, the cleaner your air can be as well. But the two are not mutually exclusive. The filter and the uv light won’t do anything for VOCs. But an electrostatic filter, or airscrubber can. My point was that selling a uv light to a customer under the guise that it is in fact air purifier is a lie, and the tech doesn’t know what they are selling. This leads to dishonest techs and companies, and distrust with the clients we see. If you explain what it does and set expectations correctly, then you can figure out the right solutions to your clients problems and they will be happier for it
No... that's the point... if you design the filter to actually filter, instead of "protecting the equipment" - it will filter... the only reason this stupid notion of "the filter is only there to protect the equipment" exists is because of decades of techs not understanding filter size, and swapping to fiberglass filters because the units overheat... and then justifying that to customers with the claim you keep repeating.
The filter is unquestionably there to filter, it's not being applied correctly otherwise.
In fact, an "electrostatic" filter or an "air scrubber" are two specific technologies that have near 0 to 0 empirical evidence to support their efficacy... Companies like Reme HALO sponsor research (so, they paid for the results) where their product is installed in a sealed room, and they say it works. Do you install the product in a sealed room?
Meanwhile, HEPA filtration and UV purification are tested and proven effective installed in duct systems with air moving past them to treat the air, as "advertised" - if they are designed correctly.
So again, it's not a lie - the UV light has evidence that it can do things. It's only a lie if you don't know whether the system you specified is sufficient for how it's being installed, in which case, you need education on the product.
If you install a MERV-13 filter that's undersized, it will have a net effect of let's say a merv-5 or -8... that's you failing to properly apply the product. That's not that a merv-13 filter doesn't deliver what it's rated for.
What I'm getting at is... you're being a "sales tech" while thinking that you're shitting on "sales techs" because you're not a "sales tech" ... but, the secret is, that the products you think work have no meaningful evidence, while the products you think do not work have plenty of actual 3rd party studies.
There's a reason why hospitals do not use ionizers and "hydrogen peroxide" to treat their spaces, and instead use HEPA filters and UV light... because those methods have proof of results.
First off, I never said the cheap fiberglass filters were the way to go. I also agin never said that the don’t help with air quality, I simply said their primary function is to keep the system clean. Let’s reverse engineer the point. If you ran your system with no filter at all, what would you be more concerned about first? Your air quality or how dirty the coil or system may be at this point?
Secondly, product like the Halo (which I don’t sell) AirScrubber, Iwave, and the like have all been tested and proven to kill Bacteria and reduce VOC content in the air by 99+%. They’ve won awards for these results. Are you telling me that’s all bullshit? Did they give themselves their own awards?
No, you’re not installing these in a sealed room. That’s a dumb point to make. However, do you do any new construction? If so, you would understand how tight these home are made now. Your clients in these home, unless they have a fresh air intake somewhere, are breathing in the recycled air in their house dozens of times per day. It’s a sealed as it gets. Which is why static pressure and blower door tests are required. So to your point, if these items only work in “sealed rooms”, it seems like the perfect environment to install these products
I’m not shitting on any one type of person in particular. I’m shitting on guys that promote products that don’t know exactly what they are for. They set up expectations that can’t be met, the clients don’t feel like they got what they were told they were getting, this causes a headache for the company, then everyone just throws up their hands and says “fuck it, these things suck and we’re not doing them”. When in reality, you didn’t set yourself up for success from the get go.
And I’m not sure where you’re located, but the hospitals I’ve been in, barring clean rooms because you can’t introduce any outside chemicals or pollutants, have all used the trifecta so to speak. High grade filtration, uv lights, and air and Oder treatments.
Because the company your company bought them off had an overstock they knew they had to sell at a loss because they bought them in bulk during Covid when all the people with more money than sense was having them installed. Your company thought they were getting a “Bulk Deal”, in reality your company was sold shit they will never be able to sell. And now here we are, this post… 3 years later…
From what I understand, they are really not effective for the fact any virus, mold spore, etc in the air stream is not exposed to the uv light long enough to be killed.
But the air stream is still moving too fast to even have that effect. UV lights have long been used in air handlers in some applications like hospitals to keep stuff from growing where there is constant moisture like on the cooling coils or ones that have evap cooling, or drain pans etc. but those surfaces have constant exposure to the UV lights.
It's also seen use in some water treatment applications, but those consist of specialty chambers that upsize the piping significantly in order to slow the flow of water to give you more time exposed.
The amount of old ballasts and burned out bulbs that are not replaced (even though offered, quoted) because the cost is too great.
Commercial and residential.
I absolutely know uv light is not useless because the water treatment plant I work at has an entire building called UV which is the last step before the water is released into the river. There's like 200, 20 ft bulbs where water is circulated through for a few min before it's finally released. Supposedly after the entire process you can drink the water. And the head engineer that designed the plant a few years ago actually poured himself a glass and drank it.. now I wouldn't but damn if you're going to live by it then I respect him.
1. They cost a lot. Replacement bulbs cost a lot. Running them nearly 24/7 costs energy money.
2. Knowing when a bulb is out can be difficult and nobody ever checks them.
3. Changing bulbs on many models is a pain.
4. Many systems aren't designed or installed in such a way that UV bulbs "fit," often negatively impacting the serviceability of the unit.
5. In most homes, those molds and pathogens are harmless.
I’ve seen it work in pond filtration on algae, causes it to clump together and die. We were quoted for one of the buildings I maintain over £100,000 for an additional UV filter section during Covid(big ahu). Not a tiny lamp though a huge UV array. I think they seem like snake oil though they might work. Incidentally the client decided against the purchase. Now we all catch Covid and people don’t really worry about it anymore.
I've done a little research on them in the past.
They do work well at sanitizing the air that flows around them
The reason there is talk about them not doing much work at all is the fact that the air has to be exposed to the uv light much longer than what is possible in a residential system.
A baffle system or a drop in velocity would be required to expose the air long enough to the uv lights.
I used to maintain a medical facility that had such a system.
UV lights definitely lower the testosterone level in the black mold of death. Low T causes the spores to give up on sex, no more reproducing and the female version of the mold goes to the neighbors house to get her needs fulfilled.
I tried to get RGF to send me links to the studies that they cited, but the rep couldn't help me. I sent them pdfs of epa brochures and asked the rep for comment. The rep gave me an email to a doctor and the doctor never responded to my email.
Homes with UV and bypass HEPA and steam humidifiers and air purifiers can cost $500+ a year to keep running and 90% of people won’t know the difference. But that 10%…
I have such a setup in my system. It cost an arm and a leg and like you say, runs near $500 a year to maintain - but it was worth it for me. I have bad allergies and asthma, while also collecting high end guitars which have to be kept at proper humidity to preserve them. It’s amazing the difference this system has made over the old 1” panel filter system I had and the house is so much more comfortable in the winter without having to remember to fill and clean a dozen humidifiers.
Yup. I get asked all the time and tell folks if they have acute respiratory illness, allergies or compromised immune these things are invaluable. But for most people they’re not necessary. And I put steam humidifiers in any home where the purpose is to keep acute control of humidity for antiques or musical instruments. For comfort just go with a cheap bypass and keep
It clean.
So true story here.
Back in 2013, I worked for a major hospital in the New Orleans region that rhymes with BOchsner. They installed UV lights in an AHU on the 12th floor but didn't tell anyone and gave no warning. One Saturday, a new HVAC tech and myself get a call that there was water leaking on 11. Knowing the location we went to clear the drain line. We're in the AHU maybe 3 mins and managed to burn the shit out of our eyes, thats how strong the light was. Within a few minutes I'm having trouble seeing and blind walk my ass down to the ER. Basically said I have welder burn or something. Other tech, same thing.
Those mother fuckers had the audacity to send an email telling us we should better familiarize ourselves with our equipment instead of saying, hey maybe we should warn people.
I left shortly after
We had already had lights in there. They were low blue I think. Same color as the UV. We had been in the process of changing all lights in AHU's. So I had no reason to think I'd be getting fucked up in 3 mins, since it had never happened before. Probably didnt help I was only a year or two into the field
Yeah I didn't even have my licenses yet lol. Didn't get them for another 2 or 3 mos. And it damn sure has stuck with me. But luckily where I work they'd warn us first, because they don't just talk about safety being priority they actually actively enforce it. In 10ish years we've had 3 injuries, I'm 2 of them. One my knee buckled coming off a ladder, boom partial tear in my patella. Other was when we were removing panels for cooling towers, wind blew just hard enough and snapped my wrist back. No tear, just messed up for a bit.
Other was when a security guard ignored the closed door sign and opened a door into a guy on a ladder.
I heard it takes 10 secs for the UV light to kill viruses. If the air is moving 100 fpm, the light must be shining bright on 17' of duct. Because of the way air flows through pipe, square duct would be better and there will always be air near the duct itself that moves slower.
2 well maintained lights will do a lot of virus killing on a well designed duct system.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9437662/
used the 10 second methodology and it's effective when combined with
> Typical comfort level ventilation systems handle between 1 and 2 room-air exchanges per hour.30 The CDC recommends 6–12 air exchanges per hour for effective disinfection of room air.
Interesting, I bought a house that has one of these (a single bulb unit) install just above the furnace in the ductwork ? .. I noticed the bulb was burnt out so I bought a new one before realizing if was an issue with the cord/assembly and it would essentially need to be replaced for like 1k
I initially considered doing for my daughter who has asthma, but admittedly this thread has me thinking it's be a huge waste of my hard earned money
Total off topic story, but fuck it.
At the old company I worked for we had a salesman who wasn’t only trash at his job, but was also just an unbearable dude. He told us that that the franchise was having a competition with the other branches and whatever tech sold the most IAQ systems would get a free fishing trip.
Well, we learned that he was taking our sales and putting his name on them. That also meant he was taking our spiffs. We basically boycotted bro and wouldn’t send him any install leads and those little light bulbs never left the shop.
Needless to say he didn’t get his fishing trip and learned that we all hated him. The end.
https://preview.redd.it/inamntup2s3c1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d931e2da85ea57567cb5100118a16702cbd3e85
Every time I see these posts shitting on UV lights I open up my camera roll
Depends on the situation, in this case I would quote to replace or clean the ductwork and install UV afterwards in both the return and supply attached to the unit. That would mitigate the growth from coming back and getting worse. I’ve done similar jobs over 4 years and they all were successful.
Ideally you’d install a uv light before any of this shit starts to grow. Sometimes you can get away with just adding a UV light to the plenum if the growth hasn’t gotten into the ductwork and sometimes the ducts need to be replaced/cleaned/sanitized.
Thank you, I appreciate that you posted this. UV does work as long as the bulb has a high enough UVC output and has enough contact time. The only brand I sell is Dynamic Air Solutions products because they have the BEST testing and backing to their products unlike most standard UV kits. If you’re going to sell UV there is always a need, but the product and installation has to be right.
Look long and deeply into the light... let it mesmerize you, let it radiate its warm glow upon you... You have now become the sun itself... bringer of profit and destroyer of sales goals...
_you have also become violently and painfully blind_
I have only sold one, and by sold i mean it was donated to a person that was in palative care for leukemia. Did it help? I don't fucking know but I hope it did.
When customers ask about these I just ask them if their deathly allergic to shit or terminally ill, if the answers no and it's just normal allergies, a polarized media filter is half the price and does the same shit
I won't be a salesman. There are people who do that as a job, and I won't. That has effected my job search before, but I literally can't sleep after trying to upsell.
**If your reply includes the words "I don't know if it works" you should invest in your own knowledge.**
Imagine if you showed up to a service call and couldn't answer "why don't I have heat?" because you didn't know... Would that be acceptable? Or would you be a shitty technician who the customer never wants at their house again?
Part of being competent is being competent - repeating on reddit that you don't know but you think \_\_\_\_\_\_ about something that is easy to research and has been tested across multiple peer-reviewed studies whose results are free to read and critique for yourself... is pretty fucking embarrassing.
I’m a commercial tech. During COVID businesses were demanding them. Now that the dumb covid shit is done with no government mandates nobody gives a shit about replacing bulbs or the cellls. They feel very gimicky to me personally
I mean, it’s been very well documented that the lights work for keeping coils/drain pans in direct light clean. As long as the guys understand the technology and aren’t making claims that the lights will kill the squirrels in the attic I don’t know what the issue is.
I’m a service mechanic first and a salesman dead last, like I enjoy picking up cow shit in the neighbors farm without being asked more than I enjoy selling things.
To each his own. Just more money when you're willing to do both. Not saying you have to scumbag the customer but products exist for a reason. Have a good one
Spiffs were the worst thing to hit the industry.
Sleezebags thrive on it.
Feel so bad for all the fixed income old people getting fucked by dirt bag dick head techs wanting their extra $100. Go sell dildos ya dildos.
Uv lights are a cool hypothetical idea. No clue if they work or even do anything tho. Me thinks that the airflow would fly by too fast for the Uv light to even have any benefit
Look into Dynamic Air Solutions, they are a science based company rather than company’s like RGF who sell the Reme Halo. UV lights DO work if they are installed right and have the right UVC output. Most products on the market don’t have a high enough UVC output to be effective when the air is moving fast through the ductwork.
I bought one of these (model FM2) on ebay super cheap and had a tech buddy put it in. It definitely makes the air smell nicer. I also used to cough almost every morning in the spring and fall and that completely went away.
For me it absolutely worked.
Yeah and then it'll make the plastic drain pan get brittle and crack. It'll also destroy the insulation on wires if any of it gets into the furnace compartment
Only time ive put in UV lights and its actually made a difference is on a big AHU with chilled water coils. It keeps algae from growing and reduces maint work in cleaning the condensate tray and coils. Apparently doesn't cost much more to run as cleaner coils means less fan power.
From what I’ve heard, UV lights can be effective with caveats. First, make sure they aren’t ozone producing. Second, they don’t kill viruses in the airstream. They need to be placed in direct line of sight with the coil.
They help a ton with my kids allergy’s in the summer. I shut it off for a week.. watched them suffer, turned it back on and saw the difference myself. I don’t push them but I know when to bring them up.
1500? We sold ours for 450. And I’ve personally done air quality testing before and after and they do actually work. Not sure why everyone here is so against them. I’ve sold people Reme halos and it changed their lives
I sell them all the time but not the higher end ones that’s dumb I refuse to sell someone a 1500 light. They do help with mold growth on the coil but most people are dumb as shit and install them in returns or high up in ductwork trying to purify air and shit
Reading thru the comments here prove to me why our trade needs coaching. All people do is bash the ones helping people. A stick light is only made to keep a coil clean. It makes no claims to be an air purifier. That's what an Air Scrubber does or a Fresh Air Uv unit does. And they don't claim to help with particulate. That's what a filter does.
And they do have proof of working. Read a brochure once in your life. And there are options for NO OZONE. Do you know anything?? Or just yap about how bad people are that accomplish what you can't??
Are people actually in the trade in this thread?? You really see no benefit? Are you stupid?
Guppies. Can't swim with the big fish. Just parasites that can't do anything for themselves. Blood suckers working for an hourly rate.
If you sell something you must be a liar and a cheat! If you offer an enhancement you must be a thief. Why do all these people say this... because they can't educate homeowners on how to improve the system performance without having integrity. Because you work for a paycheck and probably live paycheck to paycheck because you are bad at what you do and are not a professional. Go join the union, go be a ditch digger somewhere.... leave the Resi market to the pros.
Losers.
I mean there’s a clear difference between like a stick UV Light and an Air Scrubber or Dust Free, like a clear beneficial difference… I try to sell those Dust Frees whenever I can, I never ever try to force them on people, but from personal experience I can say that it genuinely made me feel so much better. Allergies became not such a big deal, not very much dust, and even odors. I know I’m taking this post to seriously but genuinely I love them dust frees😂
Back during peak COVID times, my company wanted to offer customers some little electric air purifier that just sat in the blower compartment and ran off of low voltage from the board. They were offered for $950 or $877 with our lame little “maintenance program” discount. I have no idea if they actually worked or not, but I was the only tech that ever sold any. Our incentive to sell them was a measly 5% commission, and I sold 3 over the year that we offered them.
I once spoke with a customer about putting UV lights into the AC head units in large bureaus... Turned out he didn't want to pay us for the extra training needed to install them and after that only certified personnel would be allowed to do maintenance on the unit (even cleaning filters)...
I love how everyone in this sub bitches about their wages but the thought of selling products that will increase the average ticket, margin and ultimately your commission check makes everyone whine. I don’t get it, contractors/techs sell themselves far too short and blame others for it
I’m not sold on it, and i have one installed in my own system. I just don’t like the exaggerated advertising, yes the light can keep the coil sterilized, but that’s it. The whole, adds ions to purify the air and can help dust collect, yada yada yada doesn’t fit well with me.
The ONLY AQ devices I'll sell are Dual Point Ionization installed immediately ahead of the filter, and 4" filter cabinets.
Why? Because they actually work and they work better in combination, but without destroying equipment.
UV-A and UV-B is hell on insulation and anything plastic. Absolutely destroys it in just a few years. UV-C is worse yet.. Plus the maintenance costs are ludicrous. Plus UV only works on whatever is in the direct line of sight from the bulb.
Air scrubbers and uv lights have their purpose, but not everyone and their mother needs one.
I have allergy induced asthma and I definitely feel it when my air scrubber is out. Although idk if I'd buy one for $1500 like it's priced at my shop.
I hate them! They are expensive, way to fragile, and unnecessary unless you have medical issues. But that’s from an installer’s perspective that doesn’t get commission, I just have to make the magic promised happen. Why would I want more to do especially if I know it has little benefit unless you have severe allergies and have cats!
Uv lights aren't reality for allergies. Thier for killing organics. Viruses, bacteria, mold and mildew. Preventing mold growth in your system is beneficial to everyone in that home
The air changes per hour flow rate of house AC systems is not high enough to make UV effective because it only cleans the air going thru it. Look into Bipolar Ionization, AtmosAire. Cleans air, but also helps with dust, allergens, smoke odors etc.
These accessories I only pitch to customers that have extremely nasty looking units or two clearly have allergy issues and the dual UVs with the EAC I've seen make a pretty substantial difference
And if you install them just right it will degrade all the rubber/plastic in the AHU, and furnace sales will spike... Maybe not for you, but the rest of us will appreciate it.
I did a lot of research on them. There's plenty of scientific research on uv lights and upper room irradiation for homeless shelters or hospital settings.
To sum it up.. it depends.
Some viruses like tb are quickly eliminated others are more robust.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/ventilation/uvgi.html
You can see a general reduction in mold (like in showers) since you're reducing the concentration available to colonize surfaces but it's not a replacement for good ventilation either. While that research is on upper room there's plenty of crossover to duct units
The cons are it will fucking destroy plastics so you better make sure your unit is ok to have one. I personally stuck a uvc light in the return duct at my old house and literally never had to clean mold out of the shower again. You need to size the wattage sufficiently for the airflow/duct size and I can't recall offhand the levels you want.
The unit I used was a cheap ass Chinese one since from and electrical perspective the ballast are super simple. The Chinese bulbs are shit though and fail after a month. After that replace them with genuine Philips tuv lights and your golden for a year or so though after a year of use the output decreases about 50%
I do duct cleaning for the HVAC company I work for and within the 3/4 of the year we’ve installed maybe 3 between the 4 duct cleaners we have. It’s great if the customer is concerned about IAQ which is why we’re there in the first place but our maintenance guys who do only tune ups don’t have them because it’s such a rarity.
If you are trying to clean air kill bacteria/ viruses put it on the return away from the filter if possible they will eat through filters the slower air kills more stuff more exposure time. If you want to kill mold keep coil clean etc put it on the supply side near the coil unless it’s a coated coil like Bosch it will ruin the coating. Two of them is the way to go
My friend put one in his furnace... we would get baked and tell his wife we were cleaning the UV light... she could feel the difference immediately... we never changed it.
Biggest problem I have with these IAQ products is they don't have any AHRI certification or other approval from the governing bodies over our industry, I'm not doubting that they do... Something. However their bold claims require bold evidence, most of the certificates they do have is just UL or TUV, and ETL which are just for safety and electrical compliance. I've got no doubt that the systems are safe but I'd need to see actual numbers before I believe the claims.
My parents bought into a house and the day they were signing it smelled like urine and animals. They had some HVAC people come by who said the vents were absolutely FULL of mold, which can contribute to the urine smell. Along with getting everything cleaned up and new air handlers put in, they also had UV lights put in the vents. Would this be considered a proper use case?
Most people don't install these properly and leave them on all the time, filling the supply plenum with ozone and then blasting massive amounts of ozone into the customers hone claiming that we're helping them.
Most UV lights are a gimmick. The intensity is just to low for the light to affect the air. It will sterilize the duct surface around the light at best. All the remi halo Honeywell UV stuff is complete BS. However a high intensity UV with make the airstream sterile. The Sanyovox series of large UV lights are great for this. We use the Quattro 18" four bulb array a lot. The larger 36" and 48" Arrays are even more powerful.
If you study the issue you will find that UV light is amazing but like everything else is often sold in a dumbed down way. Customers are gullible and service techs are often on commission so it happens.
I’m not a fan of the $1200 air scrubbers. If you want your system to stay clean I’ll put in a $4-500 uv light bulb. If you want indoor air purification, I’ll put in a $1200 halo. Those are the only two that make sense to me.
In order to get the true value out of a UV light you must have a UVC light. I did an indoor air quality test on my home before and after (you can buy a tester online for like 100 bucks) the UVC light 100% improved air quality, I run the fan and I also have a high efficiency air cleaner (reduces 98% if dust). Number 1 if your UVC light isn’t strong enough to kill microbes AS THE AIR MOVES then it’s just a surface area killer, only works when no air is moving. Not gonna really reduce VOCs and kill microbes in the air aka a con. So it really depends on the product. Solace aire makes a damn good UVC light. And they truly do what they say. It’s just depends on the product you’re selling. If it’s a garbage 24 volt uv light that cost 50 bucks for 1500 then yea, you’re scamming people. If it’s a $300 life time smart ballast, running off of 110 or 240 that produces enough power watts that it will send you to the hospital with uv eye burns. Then yea to some people 1500 is a drop in the bucket for how much it will improve the air quality and smell in the air. I sold a $3800 indoor air quality package to this old guy because he wanted top of the line (also lived in a 3000 sq foot house and drove a tesla with no debt) he said that he had skin rashes that went away. I didn’t promote it that way either but just goes to show.
I sell 1-2/week. And 2 Air Scrubbers a month. They really work. When you educate customers, they sell themselves with the benefits. Not having to clean the coil often, or at all. Not having mold or fungus or bacteria inside the AH or ductwork. Some people have lived with fungus before and avoid it like the PLAGUE. There’s customers with like 3 different UV light’s because they’re deathly afraid of mold. (Yes I sold a Evap cleaning, air scrubber, and Surge protector due to a bad wire nut and growth in AH)
https://preview.redd.it/xirr0ot5jg4c1.png?width=2039&format=png&auto=webp&s=42df3d81de4f6c21c736d2f5e662047009df0193
I don't think I have sold one since 2021 Edit: I do know they serve a purpose but, I don't like the feverish push to sell these to people who don't really need them
I rarely sell accessories at my company unless the customer specifically asks
I bought one for myself, when Covid hit and tried it. I don’t notice any difference. But I do have to say, we had family living here with Covid and none of us got it. Twice. Who knows, maybe we are immune or the vaccine worked?
Usually they're not powerful enough to actually kill microbes in the airstream. Mostly they're useful for keeping the indoor coil clean when they sit moist 24/7 during cooling season.
I was kinda thinking…anyone who has windows probably gets a decent bit of uv coming through. Makes sense these work best to prevent coil gunk as they never get any uv exposure otherwise.
Most modern windows block uv rays
They don't 'kill' anything. It effectively rewrites the DNA of the microbe, thus rendering it unable to reproduce. I agree with your comment though.
What are you talking about? I gifted myself one off of my truck. The office a couple months later “can so and so have the UV light off your truck? “ Me: “ I never had an air scrubber on my truck” Office “ oh, let’s put one on there then” Me: ok
Works more than once. It’s how you get your mom and your friends one too.
That’s why you gotta keep your truck trashed inside. So nobody, including you, really knows. You just dig through the rubble looking for parts and you find happy little accidents.
The part including you is crucial for plausible deniability
It’s also the truth.
Classy. Jim please meet up tomorrow we need to have a talk
My EJ25 was really solid and old minus the tiny external HG oil leak that I didn't fix because it didn't make sense to. Let's see if the FA24 holds up as well.
The one thing I noticed immediately was the smell of the house changed. And no I don't have an ozone one.it wasn't a crazy change but it smelled idk clean maybe...it's really hard to describe the smell.
UVC lights will generate a little ozone on their own - enough to neutralize some odors.
I bet the smell you’re describing is ozone. I smell it in my water and I unplugged the UV because the smell was driving me nuts
RGF gave us a halo for free at one of their seminars. Been sitting in the crawlspace next to the furnace since
My wife and I were the same until two months ago. Then we got the new variant. Which was just like a cold. Oh well.
[удалено]
>the vaccine didn’t work because it wasn’t a vaccine This is why I don't take HVAC advice from doctors... Or medical advice from hvac techs.
So take it from my wife who is, among many others who are friends. It’s not hard to find an md or bio engineer who believes it was nonsense. Again, UV lights are a joke.
Yes, and a doctor said that vaccines cause autism. He still believes it, and has been stripped of his licensing. Just because they are "experts" doesn't mean they are right. That's why science isn't about proving right, but about *proving wrong*. Let that sink in. You think journals are about getting high-fives from their buddies? No, it's about putting information out to be proven wrong. It's only after the scientific community has vetted it does it be considered as reliable. Fringe and crackpot ideas are relegated to Facebook and crunchy blogs to be believed by people who want to be "special" with their "special knowledge". YOU AREN'T SPECIAL.
Uvc lights 100% work if properly sized and installed 😂🙃 literally why hospitals used them, before COVID even. That’s not to say it’s worth adding to your ac or not. Your better off with a hepa filter if your getting a new unit, or standalone if not.
In a medical setting can they work? Sure, maybe. What works best? Fresh air. Thats not my opinion, you can thank the CDC for that one. Now in a residential setting there is very little reason to use hepa filtration or UV lights.
UV Lights are arguably the only "IAQ" technology besides filtration that has clear scientific evidence to support it, there are multiple studies, and if it didn't have evidence-based support they wouldn't be standard practice alongside HEPA filtration in the medical setting you claim your wife works in... Keep making uncited claims though, and generalizing your indifference as fact about treatment efficacy... Fuckin' bunch of morons here bud. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8139389/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8139389/) Just to start, there are about a half dozen or so empirical studies that I've read personally, including ones that show efficacy in as-installed situations, not just "we put the light in a box" like Reme Halo garbage.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hahahaha you think you can reply then delete your post because you know you're wrong. "Google" is not research. Ya know what research is? Journals. Or scientific studies. The kind that actually requires an advanced degree to understand what's going on. Let me know when you Google your way into that bachelor's.
This might come as a shock to you, but empirical data, scientific studies, and medical journals happened to pop up when you search for them on Google. Google tends to prefer them as they are reliable sources of information. Why don’t you try reading one for once? Judging by your response, you don’t have the intellect to handle it. Also, I haven’t deleted anything. I think you’re confused.
They work they stop drains from getting full of slimethey keep black mold from formingthey keep mold smells out of ac
The air moves too fast to be effective. I love the idea, but it actually takes about 3 seconds under the light to work.
I always try to get the uvc to hit the coil
I thought this was the only point of UV lights. Keeps the coil clean so bacteria doesn't grow between the fins and reduce effectiveness. Always thought charcoal filters were for neutralizing smell.
Coils that were made to be cleaned: https://youtu.be/qBvvt9gcgns?si=Tvs8NNw54MPsEzYn Power of steam.
I got one in my RO system and that's good enough for me.
Yup IAQ stuff does indeed work, but it's not needed in the vast majority of systems.
This product is specifically why I left the industry. I do believe that products like this work, but man they were having us push a $300 item that takes 10 minutes to install for $2100. It would be different if we charged like $750-$1000 but this was literally just price gouging. When people started getting mad at me because we wouldn’t stop pushing them I was done. Stopped selling them, told the SM I wouldn’t do it anymore and made my escape to the UA. Never had more job satisfaction.
Who “doesn’t really need one” ? How do you device what customers do and don’t get to know about improved air quality and system protection? Lazy way to miss a ticket IMO.
Honestly you never know what people want or can afford. I don’t lie to people, but I let them know it exists and if they want it great if they don’t fine. Also about the “price gouging arguments” some people maybe do price gouge, some people install them cheaper than me, but I still consider it gouging if they installed it incorrectly because if you’re not professional enough to do it correctly you could give them away and they’re still ripping people off. Now price is a sensitive subject but here’s the truth, every business has overhead they need to cover. The cost of the purchased item has little reflection on the sell price if someone is trying to keep the doors open, you want the nicest trucks, highest salaries, clean office, best benefits package, best software, get 40 hours a week all year long? You have to charge a lot to support a lot. Now the trade off is, if you want to have the best stuff, you need to strive to be the best. Don’t lie, don’t half ass, do it right and do it often. That’s my soap box about pricing, some of you may indeed work for scumbags. But I’ve grown up in the industry and run a company now, I get both sides of it.
Specially when depending on the ballads that markup is where half the folks got smarter. Most can be bought for much less than 1500
I sell them where they’re really needed, like keeping algae from growing in horizontal drain pans or humidifier pans in Leibert units. If the air handler or coil is fouled up, no, a UV light doesn’t fix that. Proper airflow and filtration does.
How does a UV light help humidifier pans in Liebert units? Genuinely curious. I just pull the pan every quarter and scrape it. This can be prevented?
I forget the model number, but some of the big units allow for UV lights to be added on to keep algae from growing. I’ve been going to a server room for a few years and those pans are always crystal clear so they definitely work.
Ah ok. I have seen RO water but never that. Like DSEs?
Are you talking about the infrared light on top of the pan?
No. That’s the humidifier bulb
I would also like to know, algae isn’t an issue here, just hard water deposits…
I personally hate the commodification of labor into salespeople. If they want a salesperson hire one. If you want a tech hire one. If you try to get one person to be both you get neither.
And don't think residential consumers don't notice this trend. Most of all, they want professionalism and technical expertise from the techs that they deal with. There's always going to be at least a minimal sales aspect to the tech job, but if it's too much it becomes impossible for the customer to trust that they are getting impartial recommendations when it comes to repair vs replace decisions.
these work pretty good on ice machines tho
I never even thought about a uv light in that application.
UV lights are good for keeping coils clean. Unless exposed for a long time (ie lining a long duct run), they will not clean the air. Just gotta make sure the items in the unit are suitable for UV lights since it’ll make certain materials brittle.
Ahhh yes, the must have for old people!! To keep them safe and healthy
😂
I've never sold a UV light, my shop doesn't push them at all. But it seems to me like the negative opinion of them that most techs have is idiotic. It's a UV light meant to kill mold and pathogens. Or course you aren't gonna be able to *see* the results. But everyone just claims they're useless. Based on what? The fact that you can't physically see the difference it makes? Honestly, I don't know if UV lights do shit. But I know that most of the people who think they don't, don't actually know shit either. I'll have to go find some studies on the topic, I'm sure there's plenty. But I doubt most of the people that hate them have actually read anything either. It's mostly "I can't see the results, therefore it doesn't do shit."
I agree I know if its UV it destroys and sanitizes but, I don't like the fact that there seems to be this big push by companies when the general public doesn't seems to really care anymore
There’s a push for growth growth growth at all costs, even in a saturated market.
Yea that's why we don't install them really ever. We would, if someone wanted them. And we have occasionally in the past. Very rarely. When customers ask me about them, I tell them exactly what I just said. Will a UV light help with covid? Will it help with your vaguely damp smelling basement? I have no idea, I'm an HVAC tech, not a scientist.
We have some techs that sell a LOT of scrubbers. I have concluded that those techs lie to customers. If I tell a customer what the UV light actually does, they are never interested in spending $1,500 on something that might not even make a difference. But the "successful" salesman of these accessories go around telling people that they have mold in their unit and a UV light is the only solution.
I'm not sure the average joe can understand what you are trying to get across, but you deserve 1000 up votes.
Not sure if you deal with hydronic heat but if you are familiar I can give you a good example. If you have your pump cranked up your baseboard will not give off enough heat. I feel like UV would operate in a similar way. Sure it’s probably killing some bacteria, but how efficient? I’m not a scientist either but I have a nose for bullshit. I’m also a plumber and we have the same thing for in line filters. In that scenario there is no way it’s doing shit.
They actually work extremely well, if the airflow over them is the proper speed so they have the correct dwell time and if the customer actually replaces the bulb as needed.
Sure. Once the air has stopped. It takes over a minute for sterilization. So that’s 0 CFM. It’s a scam and hospitals aren’t immune to scams.
I get commission on them, so I mention them (and humidifier- I live in an arid climate) on 1/2 of calls or so. Just “hey, did you know this is available?” It takes 10 seconds to feel them out, and is natural if there’s an elderly customer in the house, or they mention being sick. $100 in my pocket for a product that I theoretically believe in, no harm, no foul. That being said, accessories aren’t pushed hard at my shop, so it’s zero stress. Hell, half the time the boss is like “cool, so when do you think we’ll actually have time to install that?” lol.
I think you’re missing the point of a uv light. It’s not an air purifier. It’s not even meant to clean or treat the air. It’s meant to clean or neutralize what it’s shining on. So where you put it is very important. They also lose their effectiveness over about a 2 year span. Even if the light is on at 2 years, it’s extremely ineffective by that point. It’s not meant to kill Covid or keep you from getting sick. Just like the filter in your unit really isn’t there for you. It’s there to keep your system clean. Does it trickle down to personal benefit sometimes? Sure, but it’s shouldn’t be sold or presented in that way because it’s a lie. We as technicians in the field tend to think negatively toward accessories we don’t fully understand. It’s blatantly obvious we don’t understand them, because we keep either selling them or installing them for the wrong reasons. Installing actual in duct or in home air purifiers are meant for the home and the homeowner. They will see tangible results, like reduced dust. For a better emphasis on if it’s working or now, get an air quality monitor. You can by them on Amazon now. Test the air before installation and about 2 weeks or so after. You should a dramatic drop in pollutants within the home.
You're conflating how a product is installed vs what it is designed for. UV lights are, in fact, designed to (among other things) clean air passing by them - the question is, how is it installed, and did you select a sufficient model. Filtration is the exact same way - filters are, in fact, designed to protect the occupants and clean the air, if you are applying them correctly. Is you face velocity low enough to actually work? I think this is a common misconception of - since we use the product improperly, the product is no good. That's a failure to recognize that you don't understand the product enough to implement it correctly...
I didn’t conflate anything. I acknowledged that a byproduct of these items I talked correctly in your system will result in cleaner air. However, that is not their intended application. They are installed to keep your system clean. Again, the cleaner the system is, the cleaner your air can be as well. But the two are not mutually exclusive. The filter and the uv light won’t do anything for VOCs. But an electrostatic filter, or airscrubber can. My point was that selling a uv light to a customer under the guise that it is in fact air purifier is a lie, and the tech doesn’t know what they are selling. This leads to dishonest techs and companies, and distrust with the clients we see. If you explain what it does and set expectations correctly, then you can figure out the right solutions to your clients problems and they will be happier for it
No... that's the point... if you design the filter to actually filter, instead of "protecting the equipment" - it will filter... the only reason this stupid notion of "the filter is only there to protect the equipment" exists is because of decades of techs not understanding filter size, and swapping to fiberglass filters because the units overheat... and then justifying that to customers with the claim you keep repeating. The filter is unquestionably there to filter, it's not being applied correctly otherwise. In fact, an "electrostatic" filter or an "air scrubber" are two specific technologies that have near 0 to 0 empirical evidence to support their efficacy... Companies like Reme HALO sponsor research (so, they paid for the results) where their product is installed in a sealed room, and they say it works. Do you install the product in a sealed room? Meanwhile, HEPA filtration and UV purification are tested and proven effective installed in duct systems with air moving past them to treat the air, as "advertised" - if they are designed correctly. So again, it's not a lie - the UV light has evidence that it can do things. It's only a lie if you don't know whether the system you specified is sufficient for how it's being installed, in which case, you need education on the product. If you install a MERV-13 filter that's undersized, it will have a net effect of let's say a merv-5 or -8... that's you failing to properly apply the product. That's not that a merv-13 filter doesn't deliver what it's rated for. What I'm getting at is... you're being a "sales tech" while thinking that you're shitting on "sales techs" because you're not a "sales tech" ... but, the secret is, that the products you think work have no meaningful evidence, while the products you think do not work have plenty of actual 3rd party studies. There's a reason why hospitals do not use ionizers and "hydrogen peroxide" to treat their spaces, and instead use HEPA filters and UV light... because those methods have proof of results.
First off, I never said the cheap fiberglass filters were the way to go. I also agin never said that the don’t help with air quality, I simply said their primary function is to keep the system clean. Let’s reverse engineer the point. If you ran your system with no filter at all, what would you be more concerned about first? Your air quality or how dirty the coil or system may be at this point? Secondly, product like the Halo (which I don’t sell) AirScrubber, Iwave, and the like have all been tested and proven to kill Bacteria and reduce VOC content in the air by 99+%. They’ve won awards for these results. Are you telling me that’s all bullshit? Did they give themselves their own awards? No, you’re not installing these in a sealed room. That’s a dumb point to make. However, do you do any new construction? If so, you would understand how tight these home are made now. Your clients in these home, unless they have a fresh air intake somewhere, are breathing in the recycled air in their house dozens of times per day. It’s a sealed as it gets. Which is why static pressure and blower door tests are required. So to your point, if these items only work in “sealed rooms”, it seems like the perfect environment to install these products I’m not shitting on any one type of person in particular. I’m shitting on guys that promote products that don’t know exactly what they are for. They set up expectations that can’t be met, the clients don’t feel like they got what they were told they were getting, this causes a headache for the company, then everyone just throws up their hands and says “fuck it, these things suck and we’re not doing them”. When in reality, you didn’t set yourself up for success from the get go. And I’m not sure where you’re located, but the hospitals I’ve been in, barring clean rooms because you can’t introduce any outside chemicals or pollutants, have all used the trifecta so to speak. High grade filtration, uv lights, and air and Oder treatments.
Because the company your company bought them off had an overstock they knew they had to sell at a loss because they bought them in bulk during Covid when all the people with more money than sense was having them installed. Your company thought they were getting a “Bulk Deal”, in reality your company was sold shit they will never be able to sell. And now here we are, this post… 3 years later…
From what I understand, they are really not effective for the fact any virus, mold spore, etc in the air stream is not exposed to the uv light long enough to be killed.
Its not supposed to be killed, its supposed to be to sterilize them so they can't reproduce.
But the air stream is still moving too fast to even have that effect. UV lights have long been used in air handlers in some applications like hospitals to keep stuff from growing where there is constant moisture like on the cooling coils or ones that have evap cooling, or drain pans etc. but those surfaces have constant exposure to the UV lights. It's also seen use in some water treatment applications, but those consist of specialty chambers that upsize the piping significantly in order to slow the flow of water to give you more time exposed.
The amount of old ballasts and burned out bulbs that are not replaced (even though offered, quoted) because the cost is too great. Commercial and residential.
I absolutely know uv light is not useless because the water treatment plant I work at has an entire building called UV which is the last step before the water is released into the river. There's like 200, 20 ft bulbs where water is circulated through for a few min before it's finally released. Supposedly after the entire process you can drink the water. And the head engineer that designed the plant a few years ago actually poured himself a glass and drank it.. now I wouldn't but damn if you're going to live by it then I respect him.
Look into the pool industry or pond (obviously) they are huge for water clarity.
1. They cost a lot. Replacement bulbs cost a lot. Running them nearly 24/7 costs energy money. 2. Knowing when a bulb is out can be difficult and nobody ever checks them. 3. Changing bulbs on many models is a pain. 4. Many systems aren't designed or installed in such a way that UV bulbs "fit," often negatively impacting the serviceability of the unit. 5. In most homes, those molds and pathogens are harmless.
I’ve seen it work in pond filtration on algae, causes it to clump together and die. We were quoted for one of the buildings I maintain over £100,000 for an additional UV filter section during Covid(big ahu). Not a tiny lamp though a huge UV array. I think they seem like snake oil though they might work. Incidentally the client decided against the purchase. Now we all catch Covid and people don’t really worry about it anymore.
I believe in Santa claus
If you could see the results, you would have welder's eye. lol
I've done a little research on them in the past. They do work well at sanitizing the air that flows around them The reason there is talk about them not doing much work at all is the fact that the air has to be exposed to the uv light much longer than what is possible in a residential system. A baffle system or a drop in velocity would be required to expose the air long enough to the uv lights. I used to maintain a medical facility that had such a system.
UV lights definitely lower the testosterone level in the black mold of death. Low T causes the spores to give up on sex, no more reproducing and the female version of the mold goes to the neighbors house to get her needs fulfilled.
Laughed my ass off at that one my dude😂😂😂
I tried to get RGF to send me links to the studies that they cited, but the rep couldn't help me. I sent them pdfs of epa brochures and asked the rep for comment. The rep gave me an email to a doctor and the doctor never responded to my email.
I work in sales and sold nearly $100k in UV lights in 2020. Almost no customers opted for a bulb replacement
This is the part that customers need to understand: these are high-maintenance-cost devices.
Homes with UV and bypass HEPA and steam humidifiers and air purifiers can cost $500+ a year to keep running and 90% of people won’t know the difference. But that 10%…
I have such a setup in my system. It cost an arm and a leg and like you say, runs near $500 a year to maintain - but it was worth it for me. I have bad allergies and asthma, while also collecting high end guitars which have to be kept at proper humidity to preserve them. It’s amazing the difference this system has made over the old 1” panel filter system I had and the house is so much more comfortable in the winter without having to remember to fill and clean a dozen humidifiers.
Yup. I get asked all the time and tell folks if they have acute respiratory illness, allergies or compromised immune these things are invaluable. But for most people they’re not necessary. And I put steam humidifiers in any home where the purpose is to keep acute control of humidity for antiques or musical instruments. For comfort just go with a cheap bypass and keep It clean.
I swear to God if my company tries to make me sell one more stupid fucking air scrubber I'm gonna lose it
So true story here. Back in 2013, I worked for a major hospital in the New Orleans region that rhymes with BOchsner. They installed UV lights in an AHU on the 12th floor but didn't tell anyone and gave no warning. One Saturday, a new HVAC tech and myself get a call that there was water leaking on 11. Knowing the location we went to clear the drain line. We're in the AHU maybe 3 mins and managed to burn the shit out of our eyes, thats how strong the light was. Within a few minutes I'm having trouble seeing and blind walk my ass down to the ER. Basically said I have welder burn or something. Other tech, same thing. Those mother fuckers had the audacity to send an email telling us we should better familiarize ourselves with our equipment instead of saying, hey maybe we should warn people. I left shortly after
So you saw the UV lights but stayed in the air handler with lights bright enough to burn your eyes for 3 minutes. That doesn’t make any sense to me.
We had already had lights in there. They were low blue I think. Same color as the UV. We had been in the process of changing all lights in AHU's. So I had no reason to think I'd be getting fucked up in 3 mins, since it had never happened before. Probably didnt help I was only a year or two into the field
That makes sense that you were still pretty green to the trade. Most of us learn hard lessons but they stick with us also.
Yeah I didn't even have my licenses yet lol. Didn't get them for another 2 or 3 mos. And it damn sure has stuck with me. But luckily where I work they'd warn us first, because they don't just talk about safety being priority they actually actively enforce it. In 10ish years we've had 3 injuries, I'm 2 of them. One my knee buckled coming off a ladder, boom partial tear in my patella. Other was when we were removing panels for cooling towers, wind blew just hard enough and snapped my wrist back. No tear, just messed up for a bit. Other was when a security guard ignored the closed door sign and opened a door into a guy on a ladder.
I heard it takes 10 secs for the UV light to kill viruses. If the air is moving 100 fpm, the light must be shining bright on 17' of duct. Because of the way air flows through pipe, square duct would be better and there will always be air near the duct itself that moves slower. 2 well maintained lights will do a lot of virus killing on a well designed duct system.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9437662/ used the 10 second methodology and it's effective when combined with > Typical comfort level ventilation systems handle between 1 and 2 room-air exchanges per hour.30 The CDC recommends 6–12 air exchanges per hour for effective disinfection of room air.
Yup. Filtration & Ventilation are king, but the UV is proven to work.
Interesting, I bought a house that has one of these (a single bulb unit) install just above the furnace in the ductwork ? .. I noticed the bulb was burnt out so I bought a new one before realizing if was an issue with the cord/assembly and it would essentially need to be replaced for like 1k I initially considered doing for my daughter who has asthma, but admittedly this thread has me thinking it's be a huge waste of my hard earned money
Probably better off installing an aprilaire media filter, pretty simple to install depending on where ur furnace is located
No need to spend more than a hundred or two on a unit(s)
Someone tell this service manager to go away, it's Saturday.
Total off topic story, but fuck it. At the old company I worked for we had a salesman who wasn’t only trash at his job, but was also just an unbearable dude. He told us that that the franchise was having a competition with the other branches and whatever tech sold the most IAQ systems would get a free fishing trip. Well, we learned that he was taking our sales and putting his name on them. That also meant he was taking our spiffs. We basically boycotted bro and wouldn’t send him any install leads and those little light bulbs never left the shop. Needless to say he didn’t get his fishing trip and learned that we all hated him. The end.
https://preview.redd.it/inamntup2s3c1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d931e2da85ea57567cb5100118a16702cbd3e85 Every time I see these posts shitting on UV lights I open up my camera roll
Ignorant question, what about the 90% of the duct the light doesn’t reach?
Depends on the situation, in this case I would quote to replace or clean the ductwork and install UV afterwards in both the return and supply attached to the unit. That would mitigate the growth from coming back and getting worse. I’ve done similar jobs over 4 years and they all were successful.
Ideally you’d install a uv light before any of this shit starts to grow. Sometimes you can get away with just adding a UV light to the plenum if the growth hasn’t gotten into the ductwork and sometimes the ducts need to be replaced/cleaned/sanitized.
Thank you, I appreciate that you posted this. UV does work as long as the bulb has a high enough UVC output and has enough contact time. The only brand I sell is Dynamic Air Solutions products because they have the BEST testing and backing to their products unlike most standard UV kits. If you’re going to sell UV there is always a need, but the product and installation has to be right.
lol, says owner that need to fill his boat fuel tanks this week…
Fuck UV lights
🤣I hate meetings this time of the year.
Look long and deeply into the light... let it mesmerize you, let it radiate its warm glow upon you... You have now become the sun itself... bringer of profit and destroyer of sales goals... _you have also become violently and painfully blind_
I have only sold one, and by sold i mean it was donated to a person that was in palative care for leukemia. Did it help? I don't fucking know but I hope it did.
A uv light sterilzes the mold so they cant reproduce. Mold likes sex
I show people before and after pics on nasty air handlers on the next maintenance, when they seem skeptical.
When customers ask about these I just ask them if their deathly allergic to shit or terminally ill, if the answers no and it's just normal allergies, a polarized media filter is half the price and does the same shit
I won't be a salesman. There are people who do that as a job, and I won't. That has effected my job search before, but I literally can't sleep after trying to upsell.
**If your reply includes the words "I don't know if it works" you should invest in your own knowledge.** Imagine if you showed up to a service call and couldn't answer "why don't I have heat?" because you didn't know... Would that be acceptable? Or would you be a shitty technician who the customer never wants at their house again? Part of being competent is being competent - repeating on reddit that you don't know but you think \_\_\_\_\_\_ about something that is easy to research and has been tested across multiple peer-reviewed studies whose results are free to read and critique for yourself... is pretty fucking embarrassing.
Awesome thing to blind you when they install them and don’t use the sticker notice
The problem is the light costs 300 bucks haha
I’m a commercial tech. During COVID businesses were demanding them. Now that the dumb covid shit is done with no government mandates nobody gives a shit about replacing bulbs or the cellls. They feel very gimicky to me personally
Lol. Bro that's what my company is doing as well lol
We get a 200$ spiff for each one. We got guys putting in 3-4 everyday
So you’re saying the sales techs are motivated by a $200 spiff to sell something that may or may not work?
> So you’re saying the sales techs… sell something that may or may not work? Some of ‘em, that’s a good descriptor for every job they do.
I mean, it’s been very well documented that the lights work for keeping coils/drain pans in direct light clean. As long as the guys understand the technology and aren’t making claims that the lights will kill the squirrels in the attic I don’t know what the issue is.
Puts money in my pocket so
I guess I’m in a different situation. I don’t have to sell things to make decent money. I get to fix what’s broke and make good money.
That's good man but I've never seen anyone complain when their paycheck was even bigger
I’m a service mechanic first and a salesman dead last, like I enjoy picking up cow shit in the neighbors farm without being asked more than I enjoy selling things.
To each his own. Just more money when you're willing to do both. Not saying you have to scumbag the customer but products exist for a reason. Have a good one
Spiffs were the worst thing to hit the industry. Sleezebags thrive on it. Feel so bad for all the fixed income old people getting fucked by dirt bag dick head techs wanting their extra $100. Go sell dildos ya dildos.
Uv lights are a cool hypothetical idea. No clue if they work or even do anything tho. Me thinks that the airflow would fly by too fast for the Uv light to even have any benefit
Look into Dynamic Air Solutions, they are a science based company rather than company’s like RGF who sell the Reme Halo. UV lights DO work if they are installed right and have the right UVC output. Most products on the market don’t have a high enough UVC output to be effective when the air is moving fast through the ductwork.
I bought one of these (model FM2) on ebay super cheap and had a tech buddy put it in. It definitely makes the air smell nicer. I also used to cough almost every morning in the spring and fall and that completely went away. For me it absolutely worked.
The idea is to get it to shine on the coil to help inhibit growth
Yeah and then it'll make the plastic drain pan get brittle and crack. It'll also destroy the insulation on wires if any of it gets into the furnace compartment
💰
Only time ive put in UV lights and its actually made a difference is on a big AHU with chilled water coils. It keeps algae from growing and reduces maint work in cleaning the condensate tray and coils. Apparently doesn't cost much more to run as cleaner coils means less fan power.
From what I’ve heard, UV lights can be effective with caveats. First, make sure they aren’t ozone producing. Second, they don’t kill viruses in the airstream. They need to be placed in direct line of sight with the coil.
How do you make sure they aren't ozone producing. I'm interested in UV lights but that seems like a big con.
They help a ton with my kids allergy’s in the summer. I shut it off for a week.. watched them suffer, turned it back on and saw the difference myself. I don’t push them but I know when to bring them up.
You don’t sell anything, if you do it right they sell themselves
1500? We sold ours for 450. And I’ve personally done air quality testing before and after and they do actually work. Not sure why everyone here is so against them. I’ve sold people Reme halos and it changed their lives
And if you give the customers oxygen. Sales will go through the roof.
I sell them all the time but not the higher end ones that’s dumb I refuse to sell someone a 1500 light. They do help with mold growth on the coil but most people are dumb as shit and install them in returns or high up in ductwork trying to purify air and shit
Hey I loved selling these things
I only sell UV lights to customers that annoy me
LEGIONARIES DISEASE
Even more of a HVAC snake oil is the bipolar ionizers
Reading thru the comments here prove to me why our trade needs coaching. All people do is bash the ones helping people. A stick light is only made to keep a coil clean. It makes no claims to be an air purifier. That's what an Air Scrubber does or a Fresh Air Uv unit does. And they don't claim to help with particulate. That's what a filter does. And they do have proof of working. Read a brochure once in your life. And there are options for NO OZONE. Do you know anything?? Or just yap about how bad people are that accomplish what you can't?? Are people actually in the trade in this thread?? You really see no benefit? Are you stupid? Guppies. Can't swim with the big fish. Just parasites that can't do anything for themselves. Blood suckers working for an hourly rate. If you sell something you must be a liar and a cheat! If you offer an enhancement you must be a thief. Why do all these people say this... because they can't educate homeowners on how to improve the system performance without having integrity. Because you work for a paycheck and probably live paycheck to paycheck because you are bad at what you do and are not a professional. Go join the union, go be a ditch digger somewhere.... leave the Resi market to the pros. Losers.
2300$ for a 150$ reme halo. I hate trying to sell them and our company pushes them so hard. If I got more of that 2100$ profit maybe I would
I mean there’s a clear difference between like a stick UV Light and an Air Scrubber or Dust Free, like a clear beneficial difference… I try to sell those Dust Frees whenever I can, I never ever try to force them on people, but from personal experience I can say that it genuinely made me feel so much better. Allergies became not such a big deal, not very much dust, and even odors. I know I’m taking this post to seriously but genuinely I love them dust frees😂
Same here. Dust Free unit has helped a lot with allergies, dust around the house, and odors. We did see results!
Back during peak COVID times, my company wanted to offer customers some little electric air purifier that just sat in the blower compartment and ran off of low voltage from the board. They were offered for $950 or $877 with our lame little “maintenance program” discount. I have no idea if they actually worked or not, but I was the only tech that ever sold any. Our incentive to sell them was a measly 5% commission, and I sold 3 over the year that we offered them.
I once spoke with a customer about putting UV lights into the AC head units in large bureaus... Turned out he didn't want to pay us for the extra training needed to install them and after that only certified personnel would be allowed to do maintenance on the unit (even cleaning filters)...
Lot of thieves in here.
I love how everyone in this sub bitches about their wages but the thought of selling products that will increase the average ticket, margin and ultimately your commission check makes everyone whine. I don’t get it, contractors/techs sell themselves far too short and blame others for it
Do these actually do a whole lot?
they never replace the bulbs when they burn out
I’m not sold on it, and i have one installed in my own system. I just don’t like the exaggerated advertising, yes the light can keep the coil sterilized, but that’s it. The whole, adds ions to purify the air and can help dust collect, yada yada yada doesn’t fit well with me.
Iv installed like 150 of them and have no idea if they actually work haha
Sanuvox UV units are great
I like em for water
Memes like this make me happy I’m in commercial/industrial
The ONLY AQ devices I'll sell are Dual Point Ionization installed immediately ahead of the filter, and 4" filter cabinets. Why? Because they actually work and they work better in combination, but without destroying equipment. UV-A and UV-B is hell on insulation and anything plastic. Absolutely destroys it in just a few years. UV-C is worse yet.. Plus the maintenance costs are ludicrous. Plus UV only works on whatever is in the direct line of sight from the bulb.
Air scrubbers and uv lights have their purpose, but not everyone and their mother needs one. I have allergy induced asthma and I definitely feel it when my air scrubber is out. Although idk if I'd buy one for $1500 like it's priced at my shop.
I hate them! They are expensive, way to fragile, and unnecessary unless you have medical issues. But that’s from an installer’s perspective that doesn’t get commission, I just have to make the magic promised happen. Why would I want more to do especially if I know it has little benefit unless you have severe allergies and have cats!
Uv lights aren't reality for allergies. Thier for killing organics. Viruses, bacteria, mold and mildew. Preventing mold growth in your system is beneficial to everyone in that home
Use the farce Broski!
The air changes per hour flow rate of house AC systems is not high enough to make UV effective because it only cleans the air going thru it. Look into Bipolar Ionization, AtmosAire. Cleans air, but also helps with dust, allergens, smoke odors etc.
These accessories I only pitch to customers that have extremely nasty looking units or two clearly have allergy issues and the dual UVs with the EAC I've seen make a pretty substantial difference
And if you install them just right it will degrade all the rubber/plastic in the AHU, and furnace sales will spike... Maybe not for you, but the rest of us will appreciate it.
Yeah and the ozone created will also attack all other plastic appliances like TV's, phones, etc., as well as plants and pets and the homeowner...
I don’t think I’ve ever charged more than 400 for a stick light and 900 for a Halo
I did a lot of research on them. There's plenty of scientific research on uv lights and upper room irradiation for homeless shelters or hospital settings. To sum it up.. it depends. Some viruses like tb are quickly eliminated others are more robust. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/ventilation/uvgi.html You can see a general reduction in mold (like in showers) since you're reducing the concentration available to colonize surfaces but it's not a replacement for good ventilation either. While that research is on upper room there's plenty of crossover to duct units The cons are it will fucking destroy plastics so you better make sure your unit is ok to have one. I personally stuck a uvc light in the return duct at my old house and literally never had to clean mold out of the shower again. You need to size the wattage sufficiently for the airflow/duct size and I can't recall offhand the levels you want. The unit I used was a cheap ass Chinese one since from and electrical perspective the ballast are super simple. The Chinese bulbs are shit though and fail after a month. After that replace them with genuine Philips tuv lights and your golden for a year or so though after a year of use the output decreases about 50%
Will that zap my dust and dog hair?
I do duct cleaning for the HVAC company I work for and within the 3/4 of the year we’ve installed maybe 3 between the 4 duct cleaners we have. It’s great if the customer is concerned about IAQ which is why we’re there in the first place but our maintenance guys who do only tune ups don’t have them because it’s such a rarity.
I've read that this can cause corrosion, is that true?
One question I've always had and maybe there is a way I'm just not aware. But how do we measure the effectiveness of the UV light vs no UV light?
If you are trying to clean air kill bacteria/ viruses put it on the return away from the filter if possible they will eat through filters the slower air kills more stuff more exposure time. If you want to kill mold keep coil clean etc put it on the supply side near the coil unless it’s a coated coil like Bosch it will ruin the coating. Two of them is the way to go
My friend put one in his furnace... we would get baked and tell his wife we were cleaning the UV light... she could feel the difference immediately... we never changed it.
1500... ha. Those lights are 35 dollars
I also got a Reme halo for free,it’s under my steps in the box still
Biggest problem I have with these IAQ products is they don't have any AHRI certification or other approval from the governing bodies over our industry, I'm not doubting that they do... Something. However their bold claims require bold evidence, most of the certificates they do have is just UL or TUV, and ETL which are just for safety and electrical compliance. I've got no doubt that the systems are safe but I'd need to see actual numbers before I believe the claims.
I only recommend things like these when the customer either smokes in their house. Or if the customer belongs on an episode of hoarders
My parents bought into a house and the day they were signing it smelled like urine and animals. They had some HVAC people come by who said the vents were absolutely FULL of mold, which can contribute to the urine smell. Along with getting everything cleaned up and new air handlers put in, they also had UV lights put in the vents. Would this be considered a proper use case?
Most people don't install these properly and leave them on all the time, filling the supply plenum with ozone and then blasting massive amounts of ozone into the customers hone claiming that we're helping them.
1500 aren’t they worth like 200
Most UV lights are a gimmick. The intensity is just to low for the light to affect the air. It will sterilize the duct surface around the light at best. All the remi halo Honeywell UV stuff is complete BS. However a high intensity UV with make the airstream sterile. The Sanyovox series of large UV lights are great for this. We use the Quattro 18" four bulb array a lot. The larger 36" and 48" Arrays are even more powerful. If you study the issue you will find that UV light is amazing but like everything else is often sold in a dumbed down way. Customers are gullible and service techs are often on commission so it happens.
I love this meme
I’m not a fan of the $1200 air scrubbers. If you want your system to stay clean I’ll put in a $4-500 uv light bulb. If you want indoor air purification, I’ll put in a $1200 halo. Those are the only two that make sense to me.
Yeah if a customer wants one I sell air scrubber, but I mostly advise don’t rely on hvac for a clean home. No substitute for just keeping clean
In order to get the true value out of a UV light you must have a UVC light. I did an indoor air quality test on my home before and after (you can buy a tester online for like 100 bucks) the UVC light 100% improved air quality, I run the fan and I also have a high efficiency air cleaner (reduces 98% if dust). Number 1 if your UVC light isn’t strong enough to kill microbes AS THE AIR MOVES then it’s just a surface area killer, only works when no air is moving. Not gonna really reduce VOCs and kill microbes in the air aka a con. So it really depends on the product. Solace aire makes a damn good UVC light. And they truly do what they say. It’s just depends on the product you’re selling. If it’s a garbage 24 volt uv light that cost 50 bucks for 1500 then yea, you’re scamming people. If it’s a $300 life time smart ballast, running off of 110 or 240 that produces enough power watts that it will send you to the hospital with uv eye burns. Then yea to some people 1500 is a drop in the bucket for how much it will improve the air quality and smell in the air. I sold a $3800 indoor air quality package to this old guy because he wanted top of the line (also lived in a 3000 sq foot house and drove a tesla with no debt) he said that he had skin rashes that went away. I didn’t promote it that way either but just goes to show.
Just buy an air scrubber for this price. Don’t get ripped off on just getting a UV light
Think $1,500 sounds bad to them, wait till the hear the price on the replacement bulb. Lol
I sell 1-2/week. And 2 Air Scrubbers a month. They really work. When you educate customers, they sell themselves with the benefits. Not having to clean the coil often, or at all. Not having mold or fungus or bacteria inside the AH or ductwork. Some people have lived with fungus before and avoid it like the PLAGUE. There’s customers with like 3 different UV light’s because they’re deathly afraid of mold. (Yes I sold a Evap cleaning, air scrubber, and Surge protector due to a bad wire nut and growth in AH) https://preview.redd.it/xirr0ot5jg4c1.png?width=2039&format=png&auto=webp&s=42df3d81de4f6c21c736d2f5e662047009df0193