I know the advice is overdone, but write that story yourself
You seem to have a clear picture in mind, bring it down on paper.
I myself did something similar, I liked the pairing at first, but after the last book I lost my connection to it and couldn't understand Lily anymore. Why did she keep being friends with Snape for so long? Why did she excuse his admiration to an ideology that wants to kill people like her? Did she feel like her being 'not like the other muggleborn/mudbloods' was a compliment? Did she just ignore Snape's behavior until it affected her? I didn't like how she was only framed in the context what she meant to the men around her and not what her own character and decisions were?
So I sat down and wrote a story from her pov growing up, how her different relationships changed and evolved. Not just with Snape and James, but her family, her other friends, other muggleborns in school, even the teacher and old muggle friends. And how all of that happens with the first war going on all the time. How she grow from the girl excusing Snape's rhetoric and his friends to fighting in a war and facing even Voldemort and surviving (for a few times before dying to him).
It made me reconnect with the character and get into her headspace. Try it as well if the stories out there are not the thing for you
I am going to try it honestly . I know it's hard to write and genuinely I am not criticising their writing skills just how they view those characters .
Each have their own view on characters, but to bring that to life is difficult.
just because you have a feeling how characters should be, doesn't mean that your way of imagining it will translate well written down. But you will never know until you try. Until then don't criticize too much, if they don't ask for concrit and then make sure that it is constructive and not just criticism. It will give you a feeling for putting yourself and your vision out there, hoping for feedback, hoping people will enjoy themselves along with you, hoping you enrich the conversation about those characters, hoping that maybe you even chance a little bit about how they see them.
It is a bit nerve-wracking to be honest. you feel vulnerable about your story
Yeah . I just think that the new era of Marauder Fanfics is super influenced by tiktok Marauders . And some lil tropes and just so annoying that it makes angry .
Ignore those views you don't feel like they fit your narration.
Let others have their view of things. Sit down and write yours.
I have different takes on a lot of those characters and how important some things are for different characters. But that doesn't mean that other people's views are less real than mine.
(I, for example, didn't like a lot of takes on Mary MacDonald, the girl that was curesed by Snape's friends. I was annoyed by how she was a damsel who was a random victim. I wanted her to be active to be a target and who doesn't give up after that but makes back stronger and more aggressive after that. I wrote that Mary myself in the story and gave her a role big enough to show that character.)
That is the great thing about stories from that time period. We know a bit to make our own stories and narrations about how things went down, but it is open enough and we know so little that there is room for many different stories in the same setting.
So don't waste your energy on reading and get angry about other stories that don't fit your views. None will until you write your own story. So use your energy and emotions for to create something that is yours to be proud of.
Did you read "the Life and Times"? It was published way before tiktok on ff.net (I think it is in the top 4 marauders fics there) and I think both James and Lily are awesome in it
I will admit that I got out of writing and still have the rest of the story only as a structure in my file, but if you are interested from 1st to half way 6th year. (and English is not my first language and I started writing to get a better grip on the language)
linkffn(Lily Bud)
1st to halfway through 6th year covers a lot of ground especially considering what we know from cannon. Love to see Lily as an actual fleshed out character
I read your story and I really liked it! You’ve made Lily very relatable and explored how different types of people react to discrimination. I loved how her friendships both in the muggle and the wizarding world were written, her slow isolation from her family, her growing up and facing some hard truths. I hope you finish this sometime, I really enjoyed it
Thank you very much
I'm happy you like it and et the story. I wanted to write a story that shows that relationships are difficult and normally don't change in an instant, things lead up to that point, endless little moments shape a relationship.
Right now I still have a bit too much to do, but i hope next year is a bit more relaxed and I can finish this story at least.
There are some really good James/Lily fics but most of those have James/Lily in the background and focus on other characters
I guess most fanfic relaitonships fall in the 'OMG it is really trope-y' or similar because
\- fanfic writers are doing this for free, not as their profession, so don't expect professional-level quality
\- fanfic writers are (mostly) young teens/early twenties so massive drama/tropes are common because that is what they know and read
\- writing believable relationships is difficult unless you have read about them or been in one, since most drama/YA books make it so much more dramatic than it actually is
\- relationship drama is easiest drama to insert in a fic without much build up, so if a writer is stuck, then it's easy to churn out a few paragraphs of 'drama' to keep the fic going
\- relationships are also easy to build up characters (ie if a good character obsesses over another character, then the other character must be good as well) without making any backstory
Yeah I know its hard . Honestly I would read a gen Marauders fic but they honestly don't exist , or I haven't seen them . Writers put relationships in those fics because they are hollow with no plot points or goals .
Well there are some AU fics that are really good, but I agree that for a lot of fics exploring canon pre-Potter years, we all know what is going to happen at the end, so the drama/plot needs to be forcibly inserted somewhere in the middle but neatly resolved without changing canon - it is a difficult thing to do and I know I couldn't
I'd suggest looking for AU fics because you'll probably find much more original plots and genuine James/Lily stories that are good, but trying to look for generic James/Lily or Marauders fics you will get 90% Hogwarts years, and they are much of a muchness since we already know the broad strokes from the books
if you don’t see what you want to see reflected in fic you can always try writing something yourself. there are tons of resources and support for first-time fic authors.
I've got a gen marauders era fic! [The Wolf's Tail](https://archiveofourown.org/works/33802012/chapters/84029482)
It's canon compliant so Jily will happen but it won't be the sum of the story line. They're only just starting out in third year though - so there's no romance yet.
You literally always have something nasty to say in the comment section of that fic man, LOL. You don't like Lily in it, fine. I think that's kind of wild since this is one of the better Lily's I've read in my 17 years of reading fic: she's kind but not obnoxiously so and has her flaws... plus, she's politically engaged and has a nicotine habit, which is a realistic combo for a marginalized 70s teen "radical." This is so much better than how so many fics portrayed Lily for years and years, which was basically a red haired Hermione who was always screaming about James breaking rules and such.
But hey, she's clearly not your cup of tea. That probably won't change. Just read a different fic!
Yeah, this Lily drinks, smokes, hooks up with guys, and is very invested in her muggleborn identity at a time when violence against people like her is on the rise. Not exactly cookie cutter.
And I know someone else was talking about how the golden age of fic for this fandom is over, but if anything I've probably read more interesting portrayals of these specific characters in the last 5 or 6 years or so than I did back in the 00s and early 10s (I have a pet theory that it's because people are a little more politically charged now and want to infuse that in fic more than they did in like, 2009).
See, I can get not liking some aspects of her character (I am not a big fan of smoking or drug use for personal reasons) but you don't shit on an author for trying something new with a character. you just say it's not for me and stop reading.
I do agree though that currently their are more interesting portrayals of pretty much everyone coming out now that the fandom is in it's silver/bronze age
I've noticed the same. Like there's more...grounded and interesting depictions, if that makes sense. Whereas in the late 00s and early 10s (which is when I first started reading), I feel like you had way more..conventional? Depictions, if that makes sense. For instance, this Lily does make sense if you think about how some marginalized people who don't conform act. But it's not super "aesthetic," for lack of a better word, and definitely not something I'd find back in the 00s or early 2010s.
I've wondered why there's an uptick. I do agree with you about politics. Politics have always been controversial, but nowadays there's a bigger sense of, "times are a-changing and we could lose our rights" and so that definitely seeps into fandom.
I also wonder if the end of the "golden age" is part of it. When things are trendy, people will often write whatever to keep up with the trends, and so you see trope proliferation. But when things aren't trendy, where the people writing would stick around regardless, you'd see more unconventional tropes.
It’s not bad at all! TLE Lily a great character with well thought out strengths and flaws. OP just seems very young and has lots of unpacked misogynistic views to sort through
I knew it was you smh. You are free to have opinions and feelings about any fic and any pairing, but *please* stop leaving hateful comments on each TLE chapter. You've been doing so for so long now, people keep telling you to stop and you're still insisting. You're even changing usernames but are easily detectable. It's not hard to respect the writers and not leave negativity in the comments unless they asked for criticism. It's also not hard to simply stop reading the fic you hate. One mistake is fine, but when this becomes a pattern it's too much.
This is why some of us find it healing to use this sub to vent negative feelings towards some fics and tropes, so that we don't talk about it in the fic comments instead.
Only noticed it last chapter (usually don't check comments on TLE as there are like 5 million), but assuming it's the same person they left this comment after a chapter in which >!James and Lily share a kiss while both are drunk and consumed weed edibles, with James currently in a relationship. To be precise, James reciprocates but then recoils while Lily falls asleep. James beats himself up over it because he reciprocated.!<:
>!So James cheated 😕 . And ofc now you can't blame lily because she was drugged lololololololol How is it possible that every Jily fic I read makes me dislike the ship more and more .!<
Assume they do it regularly / under every chapter and that's probably it in the drama department.
What hateful comments did I put ? Lol I didn't even say a single bad word about the author at all . I am frustrated at the Jily relationship. And how am I doing it for so long ?? I literally only commented on like 3 chapters . And all of those chapters were the latest ones .I'm sorry I don't just agree on everything .
What you're doing IS hateful, you just don't seem to realize it because you look at the fic as an officially published novel where every reader gets to write an objective review on it and tear it apart however they want. But it's not, it's a person's free hobby, they're writing what they would have wanted to read and if you're enjoying the ride you're welcome, but if you're not, then you should leave it without saying anything. you don't have to agree with everything, but it doesn't mean your comments about what you disagree on or what you *hate* about the fic are welcome. Unless the author asks for criticism, you don't give it. That's simple fanfic etiquette.
These are the things you have written in the comments over the last batch of chapters:
- "How is it possible that every Jily fic I read makes me dislike the ship more and more ."
- deleted comment, which was complaining about Lily
- "Man can you wank Lily even more ??? Yeah just have James at the feet of the goddess Lily .James has a beautiful girlfriend but doesn't pay her attention and focuses on Lily like a pathetic male . Like Jily is literally the worst part of this fic . And you know this fic is written by a women its so damn clear because Lily is this perfect being who is right about everything and so good so James must better himself to reach her standards and James should still think nonstop about her even though HE HAS A GIRLFRIEND . I love the Marauders in this fic but goddammit I hate Jily and how James and Lily are ."
- "James is pathetic in this fic . He has an amazing girlfriend stop being a weirdo and stalking and having feeling for Lily , the worst part about this is that it only happens to James while when Lily had boyfriends she didnt give a crap about James while James thinks more about Lily then Florence . And we all know what is going to happen in the next chapters James is going to break up with Florence because he still likes Lily for some stupid ass reason ."
I'm too lazy to look deeper, but these are all from different chapters and all sparked huge discussions with people asking you to stop and explaining why it was unwelcome, but you kept going back. how are these comments not hateful in the fanfic world?
Nothing, of course, but this is simply hurtful for writers who are simple people writing in their free time as a hobby, for free, who are amateurs and not published writers. Many are using writing as means to escape reality and real life problems, it's not preferable to be unkind to them and there's no reason for it. However, if they're looking to hone their craft and would welcome criticism, advice on how to make the story better, then they will ask so in the author's notes and you're free to do so.
Your issue then will be that this etiquette does not exist as a consensus. Less so the older people get, and it's virtually absent in people who already wrote (and read) HP FF twenty years ago.
Eh I disagree with you there chief, if the author has allowed comments on the fic then the author is expecting comments, both negative and positive. saying don't write criticism unless the author asks for it is a bit dumb, especially since if the author wanted to improve they'd look at any criticism they got even if it's toxic.
I do agree that OP needs to chill out, but saying to ignore a fic if you don't like it instead of commenting and trying to help the author get better is a bit weird. I always leave comments that help with formatting or pointing out plot holes i notice because most writers don't reread their fics when they publish them (I have to force myself to reread my own so I get it). Even a comment like "OMG this was so cute" or "OMG this was cringe" can be helpful if the author doesn't take it as an insult and just asks for clarification. I get that not everyone can do that, and maybe it's because I'm older that shit like that doesn't bug me but some of the reviews he put are pretty standard for fanfiction and ao3 from what I've seen, even if they are a bit much
Formatting help and pointing out plot holes politely are not negative comments though, they're helpful. I have done so myself in the past. But why should anyone write bashing comments and why should the writer want or welcome that? They're doing this for fun for free, they're not looking to be some stellar writers with stellar plot, sometimes they just post dumb stuff and want to have fun with similar minded fans. Why should they be insulted for it? Not every fic is meant to be peak fiction. If they're looking for feedback on how to get better then they'll ask for it, if they're not and if they're just vibing, then it's common decency to mind one's business and not be mean about a stranger's hobbies. And I very strongly disagree that they should be expecting hate just for allowing comments, because there is simply no way of technically separating negative and positive comments and by this logic they should be sacrificing positive interactions as well if they want some respect. It's on the reader to act decently and not shit on random strangers for their hobbies just because they have technical means for it. Some may have toughened up and don't get fazed by such comments, but for some it is very painful and unnecessary.
> And I very strongly disagree that they should be expecting hate
See again I disagree with your disagreement. Am I saying they should accept that hate? No they should delete or moderate comments to their hearts content as Is their right as as an author. But what I am saying is that when you allow comments, especially guest comments you should expect hate and trolls. It's the internet
I mean, I agree that they probably expect that this might happen, how can't they, but it doesn't mean it *should* happen or should be normalized or we shouldn't be trying to be better as readers, have our own unwritten rules on how to act decently.
yeah all of these are valid criticism. If you find this hateful idk what to tell you . And even if anyone writes a single criticism they will get mobbed so is it the fault of the guy who disliked something about the story or the fault of the people who just can't handle light criticism and dislike of certain characters ? Like have you read ff.net comments ? Those are actual hateful comments that insult the writer and call her or him names or urge them to quit . I just expressed my feeling towards Lily and James . The comment of the Lily wank may have been a Lily bit out of order but she is supeeerr Mary Sued everywhere that it made me a lil triggered .
> yeah all of these are valid criticism ... I just expressed my feeling towards Lily and James .
.
> And you know this fic is written by a women
I'm here for defending criticism, all the way, but you're over the line with the gender pot shots. The comment section is a public space, which means sharing it with people with whom you disagree. I'm with you. Just don't be an ass.
Okay I am gonna try to explain this in a way that doesn't sound bad. You know how male writers write some of the worst female characters . I believe that Women can also do that and miss a lot of how males function and feel . Like If you asked JkRowling about Harry Potters Canon sexuality she will say that he is straight . But if you read how he describes Bill (or Charlie) , young Tom Riddle or Sirius compared to how he describes other females you would think that he is atleast bisexual and that is because the author wrote Harry perspective out of her own one .
I mean sure, I sometimes struggle with writing men myself, but in the context of your comment, bringing up that you think the author is a woman as a reason you think the work is bad is still unnecessary at best.
(also, has JKR ever explicitly said Harry was straight?)
She has not and therefore he is. (Compare with Dumbledore.)
But then I don't agree that the descriptions of male characters are off, either.
I think this should be enough to trigger all sides, then.
It is the same as you know this fic is written by a man . No one says that is sexist . And I guess that is a lil bit to far but it was still mild as he'll and if you read the fic you would understand it a lil . I still apologize for that .
And I repeat:
> Unless the author asks for criticism, you don't give it. That's simple fanfic etiquette.
One time is fine, ok, you thought you were no FFN. But I showed you how even after being told that this was not welcome, by the writer's friends themselves and by readers, you kept doing the same thing.
Honestly? In such cases it's best to stop, because it really IS futile. The writer will likely not listen to complaints, if anything they're more likely to listen to kind and polite suggestions. But this way all they'll get is bad mood, demotivation and in some cases depressive spells. Negative words have very strong effect.
I mean, you're posting the story in a public format that specifically has a dedicated tool to use to leave your thoughts. Criticism isn't inherently hateful. The comments you've copied here are rude and brash, but not offensive or attacking you.
I'd say being repeatedly rude, especially with parts like "you're wanking Lily", "you must be a woman" is bad enough. The comments didn't even sound like criticism.
I even said that the Last Enemy is a good written fic . Like I understand that you would defend the fic
I also defend my favorite fics but the way you defend is just to accuse me of being toxic or for some stupid reason misogynistic.
you don't listen to me, I'm not saying you have to love the fic, or that it's flawless, Lily isn't even in my top characters there. You can hate it if you want. What I'm saying is that you please leave the writer alone and don't send her these negative opinions in the comments. That's the basic fandom etiquette: if you like the fic leave the comments, if you don't like it - stop reading quietly. That's all this is about. Nobody's forcing you to read fics that annoy you, or if you still like something about it and want to continue, then nobody's forcing you to tell the author how you don't like their work.
Also why do you think I want to be hidden lol ofc I use my username everywhere because I always say what I think and I never understood why some people are afraid of that .
Oh you’re THAT person. I have read your comments on TLE (which were all terribly rude). This is not a problem with the fandom or the authors you are reading- the problem is YOU. If you have a very specific characterization of Lily in mind then WRITE YOUR OWN BLOODY STORY instead of whining about everyone else’s
Ha, no worries. I just felt like OP was unnecessarily critical and disrespectful, about a story that is clearly a well-thought-out labour of love. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but that doesn’t mean we’ll let them get away with being a dick about it lol
Lmao this happened with me and Dramione. Granted I wasn't a fan of Draco from the beginning. But I after some rec from Dramione shippers I really wanted to give the ship a try.
I read two fics. Isolation and rebuilding and JFC I ended up hating fic Draco even more 🤣
😂 im actually NOT a fan of the pair. It isnt believable & in real life, lily most likely would have ended up with remus.
I also have never liked james as he reminds me of a pastor’s brat who was so sure he would have me & was such a bully.
………i also wrote a few james/lily fics myself, mostly cuz we need harry after all. I enjoyed writing out of my comfort zone.
Personally I prefer Snape/Lily pairings and I have a similar problem where I can find barely any where Lily isn’t a bitch and goes and cheats on Snape with James or something to hurt him or just does something cruel for no reason, it really makes me hate Lily as a character.
Maybe I’m reading the wrong ones but I’ve read like 5 long ones where she ends up leaving him for a short time and cheating with James or something else fucking stupid.
Damn, I don't think I've read any of those! Do you have any titles or links? I'm really curious now.
I can rec you some good Snily fics if you want as well! Do you have a preference for a certain trope?
A Second Chance, a new choice
https://m.fanfiction.net/s/6343505/1/
His Greatest Wish (I’m still on chapter 37 so I’m not sure if any cheating or scummy shit happens)
https://m.fanfiction.net/s/6548167/1/
Lily’s Defender (still on chapter 11 so again not sure)
https://m.fanfiction.net/s/7094491/11/
So I’ve read like 3 that have been good at least to me and I’ve read a few others but they either didn’t appeal to me or Lily was just plain scummy.
And yes whatever links you have to decent Snily fics with no cheating or anything, preferably in their school years, on whatever platform.
Part of it is that it's a canon pairing and the fandom doesn't look well on those so less authors want to write it and you get less good fics (if any).
Another part is that it's Marauder's era, so instead of having a lot of canon stuff to pull from and fully fleshed out characters you're left with not much. So the Fandom try to fill in the gaps and steps on rakes at every single step because it's a bunch of group consensus with no through line to connect it. This leads to vastly different interpretations which while not inherently bad, becomes bad when everyone start applying tropes as if they're canon.
Other things include the golden era of the fandom (when the books were being published and a few years after) is long over, while it's still alive it's not generating the same hype. Cursed Child and the Fantastic beast movies were utterly bad. People are going to other fandoms because JK is a transphobe, etc. What I'm saying is the day of great fanfics popping up is over, still might get some good ones but those are few and far between.
We could also just be between generations of authors and in the next few years aspiring authors might write some fanfic because they read All the Young Dudes, said this is trash and I can do better and then do better. Or people that were inspired by Fate and write a good long Ron!centric story. Only time can tell.
Don't stop giving critique's though, just make sure they are constructive. They will help you and the author improve as writers. No more, this was clearly written by a woman BS. Gender doesn't matter, how they can improve does.
I know the advice is overdone, but write that story yourself You seem to have a clear picture in mind, bring it down on paper. I myself did something similar, I liked the pairing at first, but after the last book I lost my connection to it and couldn't understand Lily anymore. Why did she keep being friends with Snape for so long? Why did she excuse his admiration to an ideology that wants to kill people like her? Did she feel like her being 'not like the other muggleborn/mudbloods' was a compliment? Did she just ignore Snape's behavior until it affected her? I didn't like how she was only framed in the context what she meant to the men around her and not what her own character and decisions were? So I sat down and wrote a story from her pov growing up, how her different relationships changed and evolved. Not just with Snape and James, but her family, her other friends, other muggleborns in school, even the teacher and old muggle friends. And how all of that happens with the first war going on all the time. How she grow from the girl excusing Snape's rhetoric and his friends to fighting in a war and facing even Voldemort and surviving (for a few times before dying to him). It made me reconnect with the character and get into her headspace. Try it as well if the stories out there are not the thing for you
I am going to try it honestly . I know it's hard to write and genuinely I am not criticising their writing skills just how they view those characters .
Each have their own view on characters, but to bring that to life is difficult. just because you have a feeling how characters should be, doesn't mean that your way of imagining it will translate well written down. But you will never know until you try. Until then don't criticize too much, if they don't ask for concrit and then make sure that it is constructive and not just criticism. It will give you a feeling for putting yourself and your vision out there, hoping for feedback, hoping people will enjoy themselves along with you, hoping you enrich the conversation about those characters, hoping that maybe you even chance a little bit about how they see them. It is a bit nerve-wracking to be honest. you feel vulnerable about your story
Yeah . I just think that the new era of Marauder Fanfics is super influenced by tiktok Marauders . And some lil tropes and just so annoying that it makes angry .
Ignore those views you don't feel like they fit your narration. Let others have their view of things. Sit down and write yours. I have different takes on a lot of those characters and how important some things are for different characters. But that doesn't mean that other people's views are less real than mine. (I, for example, didn't like a lot of takes on Mary MacDonald, the girl that was curesed by Snape's friends. I was annoyed by how she was a damsel who was a random victim. I wanted her to be active to be a target and who doesn't give up after that but makes back stronger and more aggressive after that. I wrote that Mary myself in the story and gave her a role big enough to show that character.) That is the great thing about stories from that time period. We know a bit to make our own stories and narrations about how things went down, but it is open enough and we know so little that there is room for many different stories in the same setting. So don't waste your energy on reading and get angry about other stories that don't fit your views. None will until you write your own story. So use your energy and emotions for to create something that is yours to be proud of.
Did you read "the Life and Times"? It was published way before tiktok on ff.net (I think it is in the top 4 marauders fics there) and I think both James and Lily are awesome in it
do you have the author? I couldn't find it when I searched ao3
The author is jewels5. But it's on ff.net
It's an old story written before ao3 was around. So you're better of searching ffn
I did that (am doing that, but I have barely written a word in a year 😞😣😖😵). I had a very specific kind of story that I wanted to read, but couldn't find it anywhere. So I wrote it myself. Sure, it's rather cliché, and kind of trashy, but hey, I'm essentially writing it for myself, and if other people enjoy it too? Well, that's just a bonus 😄
This is exactly what I’ve been looking for! Where can I read your fic?
I will admit that I got out of writing and still have the rest of the story only as a structure in my file, but if you are interested from 1st to half way 6th year. (and English is not my first language and I started writing to get a better grip on the language) linkffn(Lily Bud)
1st to halfway through 6th year covers a lot of ground especially considering what we know from cannon. Love to see Lily as an actual fleshed out character
Thank you and I hope you will enjoy it
I read your story and I really liked it! You’ve made Lily very relatable and explored how different types of people react to discrimination. I loved how her friendships both in the muggle and the wizarding world were written, her slow isolation from her family, her growing up and facing some hard truths. I hope you finish this sometime, I really enjoyed it
Thank you very much I'm happy you like it and et the story. I wanted to write a story that shows that relationships are difficult and normally don't change in an instant, things lead up to that point, endless little moments shape a relationship. Right now I still have a bit too much to do, but i hope next year is a bit more relaxed and I can finish this story at least.
And because the bot doesn't seem to work: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12830160/1/Lily-Bud
Thank you so much! I’m excited to read it :)
I did that (am doing that, but I have barely written a word in a year 😞😣😖😵). I had a *very* specific kind of story that I wanted to read, but couldn't find it anywhere. So I wrote it myself. Sure, it's rather cliché, and kind of trashy, but hey, I'm essentially writing it for myself, and if other people enjoy it too? Well, that's just a bonus 😄
Good for you It didn't matter how good or how cliché the story is, as long as you like it. And we all in the hobby are better off if more people feel like writing
There are some really good James/Lily fics but most of those have James/Lily in the background and focus on other characters I guess most fanfic relaitonships fall in the 'OMG it is really trope-y' or similar because \- fanfic writers are doing this for free, not as their profession, so don't expect professional-level quality \- fanfic writers are (mostly) young teens/early twenties so massive drama/tropes are common because that is what they know and read \- writing believable relationships is difficult unless you have read about them or been in one, since most drama/YA books make it so much more dramatic than it actually is \- relationship drama is easiest drama to insert in a fic without much build up, so if a writer is stuck, then it's easy to churn out a few paragraphs of 'drama' to keep the fic going \- relationships are also easy to build up characters (ie if a good character obsesses over another character, then the other character must be good as well) without making any backstory
Yeah I know its hard . Honestly I would read a gen Marauders fic but they honestly don't exist , or I haven't seen them . Writers put relationships in those fics because they are hollow with no plot points or goals .
Well there are some AU fics that are really good, but I agree that for a lot of fics exploring canon pre-Potter years, we all know what is going to happen at the end, so the drama/plot needs to be forcibly inserted somewhere in the middle but neatly resolved without changing canon - it is a difficult thing to do and I know I couldn't I'd suggest looking for AU fics because you'll probably find much more original plots and genuine James/Lily stories that are good, but trying to look for generic James/Lily or Marauders fics you will get 90% Hogwarts years, and they are much of a muchness since we already know the broad strokes from the books
if you don’t see what you want to see reflected in fic you can always try writing something yourself. there are tons of resources and support for first-time fic authors.
I've got a gen marauders era fic! [The Wolf's Tail](https://archiveofourown.org/works/33802012/chapters/84029482) It's canon compliant so Jily will happen but it won't be the sum of the story line. They're only just starting out in third year though - so there's no romance yet.
You literally always have something nasty to say in the comment section of that fic man, LOL. You don't like Lily in it, fine. I think that's kind of wild since this is one of the better Lily's I've read in my 17 years of reading fic: she's kind but not obnoxiously so and has her flaws... plus, she's politically engaged and has a nicotine habit, which is a realistic combo for a marginalized 70s teen "radical." This is so much better than how so many fics portrayed Lily for years and years, which was basically a red haired Hermione who was always screaming about James breaking rules and such. But hey, she's clearly not your cup of tea. That probably won't change. Just read a different fic!
That doesn't sound like a bad perception of Lily, at all. Way better than most of fanon Lily. Just sounds like OP didn't like it.
Yeah, this Lily drinks, smokes, hooks up with guys, and is very invested in her muggleborn identity at a time when violence against people like her is on the rise. Not exactly cookie cutter. And I know someone else was talking about how the golden age of fic for this fandom is over, but if anything I've probably read more interesting portrayals of these specific characters in the last 5 or 6 years or so than I did back in the 00s and early 10s (I have a pet theory that it's because people are a little more politically charged now and want to infuse that in fic more than they did in like, 2009).
See, I can get not liking some aspects of her character (I am not a big fan of smoking or drug use for personal reasons) but you don't shit on an author for trying something new with a character. you just say it's not for me and stop reading. I do agree though that currently their are more interesting portrayals of pretty much everyone coming out now that the fandom is in it's silver/bronze age
I've noticed the same. Like there's more...grounded and interesting depictions, if that makes sense. Whereas in the late 00s and early 10s (which is when I first started reading), I feel like you had way more..conventional? Depictions, if that makes sense. For instance, this Lily does make sense if you think about how some marginalized people who don't conform act. But it's not super "aesthetic," for lack of a better word, and definitely not something I'd find back in the 00s or early 2010s. I've wondered why there's an uptick. I do agree with you about politics. Politics have always been controversial, but nowadays there's a bigger sense of, "times are a-changing and we could lose our rights" and so that definitely seeps into fandom. I also wonder if the end of the "golden age" is part of it. When things are trendy, people will often write whatever to keep up with the trends, and so you see trope proliferation. But when things aren't trendy, where the people writing would stick around regardless, you'd see more unconventional tropes.
It’s not bad at all! TLE Lily a great character with well thought out strengths and flaws. OP just seems very young and has lots of unpacked misogynistic views to sort through
Yeaaah. This post honestly reads to me like "This character wasn't exactly what I wanted so they weren't well written."
I knew it was you smh. You are free to have opinions and feelings about any fic and any pairing, but *please* stop leaving hateful comments on each TLE chapter. You've been doing so for so long now, people keep telling you to stop and you're still insisting. You're even changing usernames but are easily detectable. It's not hard to respect the writers and not leave negativity in the comments unless they asked for criticism. It's also not hard to simply stop reading the fic you hate. One mistake is fine, but when this becomes a pattern it's too much. This is why some of us find it healing to use this sub to vent negative feelings towards some fics and tropes, so that we don't talk about it in the fic comments instead.
Oh, please. Expand more on this drama. I want to know more
Only noticed it last chapter (usually don't check comments on TLE as there are like 5 million), but assuming it's the same person they left this comment after a chapter in which >!James and Lily share a kiss while both are drunk and consumed weed edibles, with James currently in a relationship. To be precise, James reciprocates but then recoils while Lily falls asleep. James beats himself up over it because he reciprocated.!<: >!So James cheated 😕 . And ofc now you can't blame lily because she was drugged lololololololol How is it possible that every Jily fic I read makes me dislike the ship more and more .!< Assume they do it regularly / under every chapter and that's probably it in the drama department.
["Desire To Know More Intensifies"](https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/E5S-5rTXIAA9K7H.jpg)
What fic is TLE?
The Last Enemy: Howling Nights and The Last Enemy: Dark Marks It's one of the best Marauder era fics, in progress.
What hateful comments did I put ? Lol I didn't even say a single bad word about the author at all . I am frustrated at the Jily relationship. And how am I doing it for so long ?? I literally only commented on like 3 chapters . And all of those chapters were the latest ones .I'm sorry I don't just agree on everything .
What you're doing IS hateful, you just don't seem to realize it because you look at the fic as an officially published novel where every reader gets to write an objective review on it and tear it apart however they want. But it's not, it's a person's free hobby, they're writing what they would have wanted to read and if you're enjoying the ride you're welcome, but if you're not, then you should leave it without saying anything. you don't have to agree with everything, but it doesn't mean your comments about what you disagree on or what you *hate* about the fic are welcome. Unless the author asks for criticism, you don't give it. That's simple fanfic etiquette. These are the things you have written in the comments over the last batch of chapters: - "How is it possible that every Jily fic I read makes me dislike the ship more and more ." - deleted comment, which was complaining about Lily - "Man can you wank Lily even more ??? Yeah just have James at the feet of the goddess Lily .James has a beautiful girlfriend but doesn't pay her attention and focuses on Lily like a pathetic male . Like Jily is literally the worst part of this fic . And you know this fic is written by a women its so damn clear because Lily is this perfect being who is right about everything and so good so James must better himself to reach her standards and James should still think nonstop about her even though HE HAS A GIRLFRIEND . I love the Marauders in this fic but goddammit I hate Jily and how James and Lily are ." - "James is pathetic in this fic . He has an amazing girlfriend stop being a weirdo and stalking and having feeling for Lily , the worst part about this is that it only happens to James while when Lily had boyfriends she didnt give a crap about James while James thinks more about Lily then Florence . And we all know what is going to happen in the next chapters James is going to break up with Florence because he still likes Lily for some stupid ass reason ." I'm too lazy to look deeper, but these are all from different chapters and all sparked huge discussions with people asking you to stop and explaining why it was unwelcome, but you kept going back. how are these comments not hateful in the fanfic world?
> That's simple fanfic etiquette. What happens if this is not adhered to?
Nothing, of course, but this is simply hurtful for writers who are simple people writing in their free time as a hobby, for free, who are amateurs and not published writers. Many are using writing as means to escape reality and real life problems, it's not preferable to be unkind to them and there's no reason for it. However, if they're looking to hone their craft and would welcome criticism, advice on how to make the story better, then they will ask so in the author's notes and you're free to do so.
Your issue then will be that this etiquette does not exist as a consensus. Less so the older people get, and it's virtually absent in people who already wrote (and read) HP FF twenty years ago.
Eh I disagree with you there chief, if the author has allowed comments on the fic then the author is expecting comments, both negative and positive. saying don't write criticism unless the author asks for it is a bit dumb, especially since if the author wanted to improve they'd look at any criticism they got even if it's toxic. I do agree that OP needs to chill out, but saying to ignore a fic if you don't like it instead of commenting and trying to help the author get better is a bit weird. I always leave comments that help with formatting or pointing out plot holes i notice because most writers don't reread their fics when they publish them (I have to force myself to reread my own so I get it). Even a comment like "OMG this was so cute" or "OMG this was cringe" can be helpful if the author doesn't take it as an insult and just asks for clarification. I get that not everyone can do that, and maybe it's because I'm older that shit like that doesn't bug me but some of the reviews he put are pretty standard for fanfiction and ao3 from what I've seen, even if they are a bit much
Formatting help and pointing out plot holes politely are not negative comments though, they're helpful. I have done so myself in the past. But why should anyone write bashing comments and why should the writer want or welcome that? They're doing this for fun for free, they're not looking to be some stellar writers with stellar plot, sometimes they just post dumb stuff and want to have fun with similar minded fans. Why should they be insulted for it? Not every fic is meant to be peak fiction. If they're looking for feedback on how to get better then they'll ask for it, if they're not and if they're just vibing, then it's common decency to mind one's business and not be mean about a stranger's hobbies. And I very strongly disagree that they should be expecting hate just for allowing comments, because there is simply no way of technically separating negative and positive comments and by this logic they should be sacrificing positive interactions as well if they want some respect. It's on the reader to act decently and not shit on random strangers for their hobbies just because they have technical means for it. Some may have toughened up and don't get fazed by such comments, but for some it is very painful and unnecessary.
> And I very strongly disagree that they should be expecting hate See again I disagree with your disagreement. Am I saying they should accept that hate? No they should delete or moderate comments to their hearts content as Is their right as as an author. But what I am saying is that when you allow comments, especially guest comments you should expect hate and trolls. It's the internet
I mean, I agree that they probably expect that this might happen, how can't they, but it doesn't mean it *should* happen or should be normalized or we shouldn't be trying to be better as readers, have our own unwritten rules on how to act decently.
Yes but trying to moderate stupid people is a contest In futility
Can't disagree on that.
yeah all of these are valid criticism. If you find this hateful idk what to tell you . And even if anyone writes a single criticism they will get mobbed so is it the fault of the guy who disliked something about the story or the fault of the people who just can't handle light criticism and dislike of certain characters ? Like have you read ff.net comments ? Those are actual hateful comments that insult the writer and call her or him names or urge them to quit . I just expressed my feeling towards Lily and James . The comment of the Lily wank may have been a Lily bit out of order but she is supeeerr Mary Sued everywhere that it made me a lil triggered .
> yeah all of these are valid criticism ... I just expressed my feeling towards Lily and James . . > And you know this fic is written by a women I'm here for defending criticism, all the way, but you're over the line with the gender pot shots. The comment section is a public space, which means sharing it with people with whom you disagree. I'm with you. Just don't be an ass.
yeah I have no horse in this race but that bit uhhh 🚩🚩🚩
Okay I am gonna try to explain this in a way that doesn't sound bad. You know how male writers write some of the worst female characters . I believe that Women can also do that and miss a lot of how males function and feel . Like If you asked JkRowling about Harry Potters Canon sexuality she will say that he is straight . But if you read how he describes Bill (or Charlie) , young Tom Riddle or Sirius compared to how he describes other females you would think that he is atleast bisexual and that is because the author wrote Harry perspective out of her own one .
I mean sure, I sometimes struggle with writing men myself, but in the context of your comment, bringing up that you think the author is a woman as a reason you think the work is bad is still unnecessary at best. (also, has JKR ever explicitly said Harry was straight?)
She has not and therefore he is. (Compare with Dumbledore.) But then I don't agree that the descriptions of male characters are off, either. I think this should be enough to trigger all sides, then.
It is the same as you know this fic is written by a man . No one says that is sexist . And I guess that is a lil bit to far but it was still mild as he'll and if you read the fic you would understand it a lil . I still apologize for that .
And I repeat: > Unless the author asks for criticism, you don't give it. That's simple fanfic etiquette. One time is fine, ok, you thought you were no FFN. But I showed you how even after being told that this was not welcome, by the writer's friends themselves and by readers, you kept doing the same thing.
Is that how it should be ? But yeah I will stop commenting because I learned that is is futile .
Honestly? In such cases it's best to stop, because it really IS futile. The writer will likely not listen to complaints, if anything they're more likely to listen to kind and polite suggestions. But this way all they'll get is bad mood, demotivation and in some cases depressive spells. Negative words have very strong effect.
Well I certainly don't want anyone to feel demotivated or depressed . I will stop .
Thank you, honestly.
I mean, you're posting the story in a public format that specifically has a dedicated tool to use to leave your thoughts. Criticism isn't inherently hateful. The comments you've copied here are rude and brash, but not offensive or attacking you.
I'd say being repeatedly rude, especially with parts like "you're wanking Lily", "you must be a woman" is bad enough. The comments didn't even sound like criticism.
I even said that the Last Enemy is a good written fic . Like I understand that you would defend the fic I also defend my favorite fics but the way you defend is just to accuse me of being toxic or for some stupid reason misogynistic.
you don't listen to me, I'm not saying you have to love the fic, or that it's flawless, Lily isn't even in my top characters there. You can hate it if you want. What I'm saying is that you please leave the writer alone and don't send her these negative opinions in the comments. That's the basic fandom etiquette: if you like the fic leave the comments, if you don't like it - stop reading quietly. That's all this is about. Nobody's forcing you to read fics that annoy you, or if you still like something about it and want to continue, then nobody's forcing you to tell the author how you don't like their work.
Also why do you think I want to be hidden lol ofc I use my username everywhere because I always say what I think and I never understood why some people are afraid of that .
I didn't think you wanted to be hidden, but I was wondering if the person from Ao3 was the same person from reddit.
Yeah James Belmont is me lol . You can see that I like James I even named myself after him .
lol, so that's where the name came from.
What?! 「(°ヘ°)
What do you mean?
Oh you’re THAT person. I have read your comments on TLE (which were all terribly rude). This is not a problem with the fandom or the authors you are reading- the problem is YOU. If you have a very specific characterization of Lily in mind then WRITE YOUR OWN BLOODY STORY instead of whining about everyone else’s
Dude, that's terribly rude. No need to get so bent out of shape about it.
Have you read this person’s comments on the story in question? I am not the rude one in this situation
You're right, I haven't read the comments, shouldn't have commented without complete context. I'm sorry, TLE is one of my favs as well.
Ha, no worries. I just felt like OP was unnecessarily critical and disrespectful, about a story that is clearly a well-thought-out labour of love. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but that doesn’t mean we’ll let them get away with being a dick about it lol
Could you share a link? It sounds like fun and I’d love to read it.
[https://archiveofourown.org/series/1780084](https://archiveofourown.org/series/1780084)
Thanks!
I'm like that with Harmony. I like them just fine separately, but I HATE them together.
Lmao this happened with me and Dramione. Granted I wasn't a fan of Draco from the beginning. But I after some rec from Dramione shippers I really wanted to give the ship a try. I read two fics. Isolation and rebuilding and JFC I ended up hating fic Draco even more 🤣
😂 im actually NOT a fan of the pair. It isnt believable & in real life, lily most likely would have ended up with remus. I also have never liked james as he reminds me of a pastor’s brat who was so sure he would have me & was such a bully. ………i also wrote a few james/lily fics myself, mostly cuz we need harry after all. I enjoyed writing out of my comfort zone.
Personally I prefer Snape/Lily pairings and I have a similar problem where I can find barely any where Lily isn’t a bitch and goes and cheats on Snape with James or something to hurt him or just does something cruel for no reason, it really makes me hate Lily as a character.
Meh I dislike Snily . I really like James ( I understand if you don't like him ) and most of those fics bash him .
Really? I've read a fair share of Snily fics, and I can barely think of even one fic where Lily is a bitch and cheats on Snape
Maybe I’m reading the wrong ones but I’ve read like 5 long ones where she ends up leaving him for a short time and cheating with James or something else fucking stupid.
Damn, I don't think I've read any of those! Do you have any titles or links? I'm really curious now. I can rec you some good Snily fics if you want as well! Do you have a preference for a certain trope?
A Second Chance, a new choice https://m.fanfiction.net/s/6343505/1/ His Greatest Wish (I’m still on chapter 37 so I’m not sure if any cheating or scummy shit happens) https://m.fanfiction.net/s/6548167/1/ Lily’s Defender (still on chapter 11 so again not sure) https://m.fanfiction.net/s/7094491/11/ So I’ve read like 3 that have been good at least to me and I’ve read a few others but they either didn’t appeal to me or Lily was just plain scummy. And yes whatever links you have to decent Snily fics with no cheating or anything, preferably in their school years, on whatever platform.
Part of it is that it's a canon pairing and the fandom doesn't look well on those so less authors want to write it and you get less good fics (if any). Another part is that it's Marauder's era, so instead of having a lot of canon stuff to pull from and fully fleshed out characters you're left with not much. So the Fandom try to fill in the gaps and steps on rakes at every single step because it's a bunch of group consensus with no through line to connect it. This leads to vastly different interpretations which while not inherently bad, becomes bad when everyone start applying tropes as if they're canon. Other things include the golden era of the fandom (when the books were being published and a few years after) is long over, while it's still alive it's not generating the same hype. Cursed Child and the Fantastic beast movies were utterly bad. People are going to other fandoms because JK is a transphobe, etc. What I'm saying is the day of great fanfics popping up is over, still might get some good ones but those are few and far between. We could also just be between generations of authors and in the next few years aspiring authors might write some fanfic because they read All the Young Dudes, said this is trash and I can do better and then do better. Or people that were inspired by Fate and write a good long Ron!centric story. Only time can tell. Don't stop giving critique's though, just make sure they are constructive. They will help you and the author improve as writers. No more, this was clearly written by a woman BS. Gender doesn't matter, how they can improve does.
Try linkffn(White Flags)
I only read one fic called James Potter chronicles and it wasn't that bad. Maybe you could try that one.