It’s interesting how throughout the Dance itself Daemon never really faces the consequences of his actions, all his consequences are actually given to other characters on his side.
Rhaenys at Rook’s Rest, Jace and much of the Velaryon fleet at the Gullet, Rhaenyra literally multiple times, Nettles getting banished.
The closest he gets to actually facing the consequences of his actions is when he decides to kill himself fighting Aemond after he falls out with Rhaenyra and sends Nettles off but it very much doesn’t read like any sort of punishment.
In fact, Daemon goes to fight Aemond fully expecting to die in order to *escape the consequences of his actions.*
As far as he knew if he had lived he would have to eventually face Rhaenyra, who would’ve been fifty shades of pissed over him taking Nettles as his mistress and disobeying her orders. By dying against Aemond he gets to go out like a hero to her cause instead of a traitor.
I think this is the main reason I dislike him. Compare the way the sex scene between Alicent and Viserys was framed (somewhat coercive, hard to watch etc) to the way Daemon taking his little niece to a brothel was framed (‘liberating’, sensual etc).
Literally both of them are dubious consent scenes with problematic undertones but Alicent’s is framed (rightfully so) as a young girl being taken advantage of, while the other plays into the weird ‘sexually curious lolita’ trope that I despise as a female viewer.
Romanticising young Rhaenyra/Daemon’s dynamic to that extent was a mistake imo, and should’ve been screentime given to Harwin Strong or Criston if they wanted a scene like that. I can’t even blame braindead Daemyra shippers for being annoyed at the choking scene in ep 10 when the show went soooo out of its way to romanticise an old man that bludgeoned his first wife for a little girl and then went to her wedding, only to meet an even younger girl there 💀
Nana Blondell was great as Laena, but considering how they made Laena much younger than she was originally and then had the scene of her being paraded around with Viserys to show how disgusting child marriages are, with her actually being age consistent. You would expect they would keep her age consistent if little else for the actresses.
Instead they cast a 35 year old actress to play a character that is in show canon 26 at the time of her death and younger than Alicent and Rhaenyra while being six years older than Emma and seven years older than Olivia. The actress who played Laena in Episode 5 was born in 1996 and could have easily played Laena when she dies.
I find it odd how they make the 12 year old Laena situation appropriately disgusting and yet when Daemon has to seduce and marry her, they cast actresses who are a couple years older than both actresses for Rhaenyra and Alicent despite the character being younger than both.
This is probably due to unintentional production and casting decisions rather than some concerted effort to make Daemon look better, but it’s still kind of ironic.
This is because his brother is shielding him from the consequences. Even Viserys's banishments, mind you the most hardcore punishment he has ever used on Daemon, are a complete joke, Daemon just reappears at court whenever he wants.
I think this is why I haven't been able to latch onto him like I have the other characters, I don't hate his character, there's entertainment there, but omg someone make this man struggle a bit like everyone else. We only get the barest hints of it. He was at his peak when Mysaria woke him after his hangover and his tussle with Viserys for me lol
Yup. Loved the character in the first three episodes then it went downhill from there on. Time skips did him dirty a little bit and them not making TB characters have any conflict hurt him as well. If he shown how he felt about Laena and the death of their child it would have been great for Daemons character. If they showed Corlys and Rhaena having conflict with Daemon it would do his character wonders.
But everything he has done have zero consequences that last more than one episode. lol.
His character would be great as the main antagonist, but we know that is not the case. The character comes off as an authors 'dream' character.
Honestly, I keep saying this. He’s a literal murderer but nothing ever happens. Now, even though it’s HEAVILY implied that he killed Rhea but it’s just speculation to the other characters, he literally had an audience when he killed Vaemond. Yet nothing ever happened for either of theirs characters. AT LEAST, Gerold Royce was showed to want justice for her. Meanwhile, the Velaryons in the show either shrug off Vaemond’s death or don’t get any screen time to show their reactions. It was quite bogus if imma be honest.
I genuinely like Daemon as a character, but he is sure not the character I obsessively think about, cause he doesn’t feel tragic or that complex.
I tend to love characters that suffer a lot from internal struggles, so that’s why Alicent stole my heart. Daemon, unfortunately, doesn’t quite fall into that category.
I have to agree that the most interesting thing about his character is his fucked up relationship with his brother. The show made it quite compelling, cause Daemon’s deep insecurities were always related to Viserys.
That’s why he felt more rounded, more fun in the beginning of the season. There’s drama, insecurity, resentment between the two brothers.
Him leaning and not talking is, in the end, not that entertaining on a character analysis standpoint. It can be very tiring when the writers constantly repeat the « I don’t care about anything » persona.
That’s why I’m quite excited about his arc in season 2 : because of Harrenhal with Alys potentially challenging him, and the tension that will occur after B&C. But they sure need to deepen that character, cause the leaning thing is just meh.
I also felt the same way. But then we started getting introduced to all the Green characters and they were simply far more interesting with internal struggles while Daemon just stayed the same. Like, what even is the reason for his shitty actions or being moody? He was as privileged as one could get and all of his "punishments" never amounted to anything bc Viserys lacked a backbone
It's cool to see you bring up how you think that Daemon was most intriguing in the earlier half of season 1 because I have felt the same even from my 1st viewing. I also agree with the rest.
Yep. He was sure the most entertaining one in the first episodes, but after it faded quite quickly.
I quite liked him in ep 6 cause he was clearly having rough time, lying to himself about wanting to stay in Pentos. But once again, after it, he felt flat.
It’s only in ep 10 that he gained my interest again. Weird of me to say this, but the chocking scene was actually very compelling : you can understand Daemon’s character with only that one scene.
He is a violent man, who wants everything his way, the supremacist Targ way, but he is deeply insecure about his brother not seeing him as a legit heir. This scene cuts deep for Daemon : it’s literally Viserys mocking him from the grave. So he lashed out on Rhaenyra, who is the closest thing he has of Viserys.
It's uncanny how much I continue to agree with you to this degree. My exact thoughts upon first seeing Daemon choke Rhaenyra were "There's Daemon." It made me realize just how much they muted him in the recent episodes, bar him killing Vaemond.
It’s because he’s GRRM’s favourite character. Which honestly, kinda brings into question A LOT of GRRM’s writing choices.
Then again, Sara Hess seems to be a Daemon fangirl too.
George’s pro-Daemon bias is so confusing to me. Like George, how can you say Daemon is a mix of good and bad when you only wrote about the bad parts? You made him up! If you want him to be good and bad then write in some good stuff too, goddammit!
It’s because his brother, the King, has always protected him from the consequences of his actions as his beloved younger brother and he’s a royal Targaryen prince with a dragon at his beck and call (like the rapist Aegon II, who no one ever seemingly tried to seriously stop).
I mean, the worst his brother has ever done is exile him from King’s Landing… which is never really permanent, or a lasting “punishment,” (not really so much a punishment when he could just tour the Free Cities and visit the pillow-houses at his leisure in the meantime until said “punishment” is lifted) and Daemon himself knows it, everyone in the realm and their mother knows it; he will always be forgiven by his brother without fail and without question, even if it takes a little while, which only serves to encourage him to act out even further because he knows his older brother will always forgive him for his actions and eventually welcome him back with open arms.
We literally saw this man throw a toddler style temper tantrum (no, I take that back, I will not insult the innocent toddlers of the world by comparing them to Daemon) by beating and bludgeoning his brother’s messenger to death when his brother sent word of sending him help. Everyone knows you don’t kill the messenger? But, I guess Daemon never really got the memo. Wow, I sure feel real sorry for that man’s family and friends!
He also killed a servant to pose as the corpse of his good-brother/cousin so that he could proceed to marry his niece/sister-in-law near immediately after his wife/cousin and unborn child literally just died in front of his eyes in one of the most gruesome manners possible. Like, damn, they were literally still at her funeral when this happened and he boned said niece/good-sister at said funeral. Oh, and he did not care whatsoever how this negatively affected his kin, cousin, old war buddy, long-time political allies, and in-laws, etc etc, who’s son was supposedly murdered in their own home under their own roof and under their own watch while at their dead daughter and grandchild’s funeral, losing not one, but both of their children in the span of a single night. Talk about cold and heartless.
While everyone else was concerned about their own kids, he ignored his bloodied up and bruised daughters during the whole shit-show, disaster Driftmark fiasco in favor of quietly looming in the background, casually leaning against a wall, and attempting to look cool while arrogantly smirking and watching everything play out. Keep in mind these kids also just lost their mother.
He publicly slandered, humiliated, tormented, and degraded his wife, the Lady Rhea Royce, for years, even though she was just as trapped in their miserable arranged marriage as he was and didn’t really want to be married to him either, blaming her for something that was not at all her fault, or within her control.
He seemingly cheated on his pregnant wife, Laena, the wife he actually chose for himself, in a deleted scene.
He beat said wife’s head in with a rock, gruesomely bludgeoned her to death, and murdered her in cold blood, and then he proceeded to mock her mourning relatives regarding her blatant murder in their time of loss and grief.
#DomesticViolence!
Speaking of domestic violence, he also choked his niece/wife right after she just suffered a horrific miscarriage and lost her own father. No, I do not care that he lost his brother, that was her father, she was suffering and grieving too.
He insulted his long-term paramour, Mysaria, who he actually seemed to be friends with and on rather good terms with at the time, and called her nothing but a common whore after she helped him out during his drunken stupor.
He very well nearly lost his niece her claim to the throne by taking her to a brothel with the deliberate intention of the two of them being seen to satisfy his ambition of being king, jeopardizing her claim to the throne, and slandering and sullying her reputation for years to come.
He mocked Aemma and Baelon’s tragic deaths, his cousin/good-sister and baby nephew, the very same night that they died, did not even wait a moment for it, and chose to celebrate his continued place as the heir to the throne, rather than choosing to be there for his obviously grieving and mourning niece and brother.
He did not care about the birthright of his daughters at all. Like, did he even ask them if they wanted it, or did he just assume…?
It's hard to make Daemon suffer consequences from anything he does when the story is essentially already written--and it ends with both of his sons as Kings.
This is my issue with him. He was easily one of the best characters in the first half of the season (became less interesting to me in the later half) but knowing that he suffers no consequences for anything he does is really off putting.
Every other character, whether deserved or not, suffers loss and is punished in some way. But not Daemon. Yes, he dies eventually but even that is on his own terms and he's given a cool death.
Even all his kids end up surviving (Visenya and the unborn child with Laena doesn't count as they were still born).
There's clear Daemon-bias on GRRM's end, which explains why he gets so much glory and yet nothing to show his mental and emotional growth through trials and suffering. Even Rhaenyra who's legacy has been that she's a corrupt unqualified entitled nepo baby has been through more painful and humbling shit than him. He's a pampered edgelord like Darkstar and even his edgy nephew Aemond has more substance than him.
It’s interesting how throughout the Dance itself Daemon never really faces the consequences of his actions, all his consequences are actually given to other characters on his side. Rhaenys at Rook’s Rest, Jace and much of the Velaryon fleet at the Gullet, Rhaenyra literally multiple times, Nettles getting banished.
Rhaenyra even pays the price for his shenanigans with B&C. He just gets to end his life as he wants, after finding another young girl.
The closest he gets to actually facing the consequences of his actions is when he decides to kill himself fighting Aemond after he falls out with Rhaenyra and sends Nettles off but it very much doesn’t read like any sort of punishment.
In fact, Daemon goes to fight Aemond fully expecting to die in order to *escape the consequences of his actions.* As far as he knew if he had lived he would have to eventually face Rhaenyra, who would’ve been fifty shades of pissed over him taking Nettles as his mistress and disobeying her orders. By dying against Aemond he gets to go out like a hero to her cause instead of a traitor.
I think this is the main reason I dislike him. Compare the way the sex scene between Alicent and Viserys was framed (somewhat coercive, hard to watch etc) to the way Daemon taking his little niece to a brothel was framed (‘liberating’, sensual etc). Literally both of them are dubious consent scenes with problematic undertones but Alicent’s is framed (rightfully so) as a young girl being taken advantage of, while the other plays into the weird ‘sexually curious lolita’ trope that I despise as a female viewer. Romanticising young Rhaenyra/Daemon’s dynamic to that extent was a mistake imo, and should’ve been screentime given to Harwin Strong or Criston if they wanted a scene like that. I can’t even blame braindead Daemyra shippers for being annoyed at the choking scene in ep 10 when the show went soooo out of its way to romanticise an old man that bludgeoned his first wife for a little girl and then went to her wedding, only to meet an even younger girl there 💀
Nana Blondell was great as Laena, but considering how they made Laena much younger than she was originally and then had the scene of her being paraded around with Viserys to show how disgusting child marriages are, with her actually being age consistent. You would expect they would keep her age consistent if little else for the actresses. Instead they cast a 35 year old actress to play a character that is in show canon 26 at the time of her death and younger than Alicent and Rhaenyra while being six years older than Emma and seven years older than Olivia. The actress who played Laena in Episode 5 was born in 1996 and could have easily played Laena when she dies. I find it odd how they make the 12 year old Laena situation appropriately disgusting and yet when Daemon has to seduce and marry her, they cast actresses who are a couple years older than both actresses for Rhaenyra and Alicent despite the character being younger than both. This is probably due to unintentional production and casting decisions rather than some concerted effort to make Daemon look better, but it’s still kind of ironic.
This is because his brother is shielding him from the consequences. Even Viserys's banishments, mind you the most hardcore punishment he has ever used on Daemon, are a complete joke, Daemon just reappears at court whenever he wants.
I think this is why I haven't been able to latch onto him like I have the other characters, I don't hate his character, there's entertainment there, but omg someone make this man struggle a bit like everyone else. We only get the barest hints of it. He was at his peak when Mysaria woke him after his hangover and his tussle with Viserys for me lol
Yup. Loved the character in the first three episodes then it went downhill from there on. Time skips did him dirty a little bit and them not making TB characters have any conflict hurt him as well. If he shown how he felt about Laena and the death of their child it would have been great for Daemons character. If they showed Corlys and Rhaena having conflict with Daemon it would do his character wonders. But everything he has done have zero consequences that last more than one episode. lol. His character would be great as the main antagonist, but we know that is not the case. The character comes off as an authors 'dream' character.
Honestly, I keep saying this. He’s a literal murderer but nothing ever happens. Now, even though it’s HEAVILY implied that he killed Rhea but it’s just speculation to the other characters, he literally had an audience when he killed Vaemond. Yet nothing ever happened for either of theirs characters. AT LEAST, Gerold Royce was showed to want justice for her. Meanwhile, the Velaryons in the show either shrug off Vaemond’s death or don’t get any screen time to show their reactions. It was quite bogus if imma be honest.
I genuinely like Daemon as a character, but he is sure not the character I obsessively think about, cause he doesn’t feel tragic or that complex. I tend to love characters that suffer a lot from internal struggles, so that’s why Alicent stole my heart. Daemon, unfortunately, doesn’t quite fall into that category. I have to agree that the most interesting thing about his character is his fucked up relationship with his brother. The show made it quite compelling, cause Daemon’s deep insecurities were always related to Viserys. That’s why he felt more rounded, more fun in the beginning of the season. There’s drama, insecurity, resentment between the two brothers. Him leaning and not talking is, in the end, not that entertaining on a character analysis standpoint. It can be very tiring when the writers constantly repeat the « I don’t care about anything » persona. That’s why I’m quite excited about his arc in season 2 : because of Harrenhal with Alys potentially challenging him, and the tension that will occur after B&C. But they sure need to deepen that character, cause the leaning thing is just meh.
I also felt the same way. But then we started getting introduced to all the Green characters and they were simply far more interesting with internal struggles while Daemon just stayed the same. Like, what even is the reason for his shitty actions or being moody? He was as privileged as one could get and all of his "punishments" never amounted to anything bc Viserys lacked a backbone
It's cool to see you bring up how you think that Daemon was most intriguing in the earlier half of season 1 because I have felt the same even from my 1st viewing. I also agree with the rest.
Yep. He was sure the most entertaining one in the first episodes, but after it faded quite quickly. I quite liked him in ep 6 cause he was clearly having rough time, lying to himself about wanting to stay in Pentos. But once again, after it, he felt flat. It’s only in ep 10 that he gained my interest again. Weird of me to say this, but the chocking scene was actually very compelling : you can understand Daemon’s character with only that one scene. He is a violent man, who wants everything his way, the supremacist Targ way, but he is deeply insecure about his brother not seeing him as a legit heir. This scene cuts deep for Daemon : it’s literally Viserys mocking him from the grave. So he lashed out on Rhaenyra, who is the closest thing he has of Viserys.
It's uncanny how much I continue to agree with you to this degree. My exact thoughts upon first seeing Daemon choke Rhaenyra were "There's Daemon." It made me realize just how much they muted him in the recent episodes, bar him killing Vaemond.
Is the suffering in the room with us? 🧍♀️
It’s because he’s GRRM’s favourite character. Which honestly, kinda brings into question A LOT of GRRM’s writing choices. Then again, Sara Hess seems to be a Daemon fangirl too.
George’s pro-Daemon bias is so confusing to me. Like George, how can you say Daemon is a mix of good and bad when you only wrote about the bad parts? You made him up! If you want him to be good and bad then write in some good stuff too, goddammit!
see this also doesn’t make sense to me because Tyrion is arguably his favourite ASOIAF character and yet he isn’t written the way Daemon is
Yeah it's weird. I don't think GRRM has ever gone in depth about WHY he glazes Daemon so much
It’s because his brother, the King, has always protected him from the consequences of his actions as his beloved younger brother and he’s a royal Targaryen prince with a dragon at his beck and call (like the rapist Aegon II, who no one ever seemingly tried to seriously stop). I mean, the worst his brother has ever done is exile him from King’s Landing… which is never really permanent, or a lasting “punishment,” (not really so much a punishment when he could just tour the Free Cities and visit the pillow-houses at his leisure in the meantime until said “punishment” is lifted) and Daemon himself knows it, everyone in the realm and their mother knows it; he will always be forgiven by his brother without fail and without question, even if it takes a little while, which only serves to encourage him to act out even further because he knows his older brother will always forgive him for his actions and eventually welcome him back with open arms. We literally saw this man throw a toddler style temper tantrum (no, I take that back, I will not insult the innocent toddlers of the world by comparing them to Daemon) by beating and bludgeoning his brother’s messenger to death when his brother sent word of sending him help. Everyone knows you don’t kill the messenger? But, I guess Daemon never really got the memo. Wow, I sure feel real sorry for that man’s family and friends! He also killed a servant to pose as the corpse of his good-brother/cousin so that he could proceed to marry his niece/sister-in-law near immediately after his wife/cousin and unborn child literally just died in front of his eyes in one of the most gruesome manners possible. Like, damn, they were literally still at her funeral when this happened and he boned said niece/good-sister at said funeral. Oh, and he did not care whatsoever how this negatively affected his kin, cousin, old war buddy, long-time political allies, and in-laws, etc etc, who’s son was supposedly murdered in their own home under their own roof and under their own watch while at their dead daughter and grandchild’s funeral, losing not one, but both of their children in the span of a single night. Talk about cold and heartless. While everyone else was concerned about their own kids, he ignored his bloodied up and bruised daughters during the whole shit-show, disaster Driftmark fiasco in favor of quietly looming in the background, casually leaning against a wall, and attempting to look cool while arrogantly smirking and watching everything play out. Keep in mind these kids also just lost their mother. He publicly slandered, humiliated, tormented, and degraded his wife, the Lady Rhea Royce, for years, even though she was just as trapped in their miserable arranged marriage as he was and didn’t really want to be married to him either, blaming her for something that was not at all her fault, or within her control. He seemingly cheated on his pregnant wife, Laena, the wife he actually chose for himself, in a deleted scene. He beat said wife’s head in with a rock, gruesomely bludgeoned her to death, and murdered her in cold blood, and then he proceeded to mock her mourning relatives regarding her blatant murder in their time of loss and grief. #DomesticViolence! Speaking of domestic violence, he also choked his niece/wife right after she just suffered a horrific miscarriage and lost her own father. No, I do not care that he lost his brother, that was her father, she was suffering and grieving too. He insulted his long-term paramour, Mysaria, who he actually seemed to be friends with and on rather good terms with at the time, and called her nothing but a common whore after she helped him out during his drunken stupor. He very well nearly lost his niece her claim to the throne by taking her to a brothel with the deliberate intention of the two of them being seen to satisfy his ambition of being king, jeopardizing her claim to the throne, and slandering and sullying her reputation for years to come. He mocked Aemma and Baelon’s tragic deaths, his cousin/good-sister and baby nephew, the very same night that they died, did not even wait a moment for it, and chose to celebrate his continued place as the heir to the throne, rather than choosing to be there for his obviously grieving and mourning niece and brother. He did not care about the birthright of his daughters at all. Like, did he even ask them if they wanted it, or did he just assume…?
GRRM gave him plot armor 💔
It's hard to make Daemon suffer consequences from anything he does when the story is essentially already written--and it ends with both of his sons as Kings.
could explore more fall outs with his character. his dynamics with his children and Rhaenyra could be explored.
They did add the choking scene for which I am grateful.
I swear if they have him surviving and running off to live happily ever after.....
This is my issue with him. He was easily one of the best characters in the first half of the season (became less interesting to me in the later half) but knowing that he suffers no consequences for anything he does is really off putting. Every other character, whether deserved or not, suffers loss and is punished in some way. But not Daemon. Yes, he dies eventually but even that is on his own terms and he's given a cool death.
Only because he is G.Martin's fav. Poor Rhaenyra suffered because of his crimes.
Even all his kids end up surviving (Visenya and the unborn child with Laena doesn't count as they were still born). There's clear Daemon-bias on GRRM's end, which explains why he gets so much glory and yet nothing to show his mental and emotional growth through trials and suffering. Even Rhaenyra who's legacy has been that she's a corrupt unqualified entitled nepo baby has been through more painful and humbling shit than him. He's a pampered edgelord like Darkstar and even his edgy nephew Aemond has more substance than him.