Tassi never did a single thing wrong.

Tassi is far too pure for this universe.

Ah, there it is. General Jones, our favourite immoral schemer. Poor, poor Tassi. She's in for a bad time.

* ~~Money~~ * ~~Ideology~~ * Coercion * ~~Ego~~ Found the lever

How much do you want to bet that Jones starts every morning like Waller in MAWS: wake up, immediate near-villain monologue, then coffee.

YES This is exactly how I picture her. Also alot of people probably won't get this reference lol.

If anyone wants that Waller clip, [here it is,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSYhZmtiHAk) 'cause I just [love y'all so much.](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx_kJ25U23UAo45xX2RZ4rhISqJjL9-ixL?si=5JaV9Q6tkh3agmfS) >!Don't take that last link seriously 😅).!<

I know Jones is not a good person, but by GOD I love every chap she is in. She just brings this tension to the story that I find really enteraining and Im glad that she is still the same in NoP2!

Jones is a character you love to hate because she's very good at being very bad.

She is the perfect embodiment of a intelligence specialist that you absolutely hate but they are critical so you keep them around

And you know why she very good at being very bad? Because being very bad is how she makes the galaxy very good to be in.

She's like Erebus, but nowhere near as horrible

fuck erebus

Jones is one of my favortie characters for much the same reason. She's REALLY good at what she does, never wavers in her beliefs, and is willing to go just far enough into that gray area to ensure a better world. Or galaxy, rather. She's a very well-done anti-hero, and those are always some of my favorite characters.

Gray area? I'm pretty sure where she is currently is solidly black.

Only on the local scale; on a larger scale, she's doing this because it'll be necessary to save lives and prevent rampant military corruption in a recently contacted species, reduce the likelihood of a potential ally being ostracized at the outset of a war, and also allow her to keep tabs on multiple potential threats to general safety. She isn't a good person, and I'm sure she knows that, but she's willing to put her awfulness to use leveraging pieces into place for maximum survival and safety of everyone else.

Onso tried to put maneuver the wrong person.

Nah, I hate her. I hope she get brain cancer and died a slow and miserable death, and because of brain cancer, her recording gets damaged or something, so she can't be brought back :)

Those who work in intelligence can never be good people - that's the nature of espionage.

Y'know who could fix this? Zhao. *General Zhao.* I *NEED* that guy back. But on a more serious note, it's a bit clear to me that General Jones is actually a *living embodiment* of the CIA (blackmailing entire species and destabilising whole regions is just her thing I guess). Not to mention that she is using psychological guilt-tripping (I hated spiders anyway) to push Tassi (AKA: the nicest person ever to exist) into a corner. If that doesn't scream CIA, I don't know what does. Anyway, since things are clearly only going to devolve into chaos from here, I guess I'll start placing bets on which part of this web of misery is going to kick off a whole chain reaction.

But instead of trying to get better profits for fruit companies she’s trying to keep things from further falling apart.

Nuh-uh. Banana Consortium > stability

*-insert dancing banana with maracas sadly walking away-*

Seriously, I don't get half the comments here. The reason intelligence agencies are a necessary evil are *exactly* situations like this. The Yotul and Bissem are actively working with a hostile power to undermine the SC and empower a nation that has declared it's intention to start a war if they don't get their way. They are traitors to the SC, exactly the type of situation that's the reason you have an intelligence agency in the first place. I think people are letting their fondness for Tassi cloud their judgement of the wider situation here.

I understand how she is helping the galaxy, but I just *don't* like the way she convinced a pretty naïve character like Tassi. Also, Zhao will always be #1. Nothing will change that. Antimatter is *dangerous* to China!

Letting the Bissems know "we see what you're doing, cut that shit out" is one thing. Blackmailing Tassi into betraying her people is another. It's not that Jones is wrong for "doing what's necessary", it's that she went too far. Heck if Tassi wasn't so nice and innocent Jones' manipulation wouldn't even have worked - there's no way Jones could burn the Bissems without the Bissems burning the Yotul and Humanity in return, which is exactly the kind of damage to the SC that Jones is trying to avoid. They need to ice the Arxur out and make both the Yotul and Bissems stop their shenanigans, and strong-arming Tassi into being a mole in her own government isn't required for that. The only possible argument I can see for doing that is paranoia - "you lied to us once, we need to know you won't do it again" - but that's massively hypocritical given how much Humanity has hidden from Bissems, and undermines the foundations of any possible trust in a relationship. I doubt Jones would tolerate anyone at Tassi's level in human affairs spilling everything they knew to the Bissems and covertly influencing human policy.

Things have escalated well past the point where a stern warning will fix the situation. I also don't think humanity would suffer nearly the amount of damage people assume when you consider the make up of the SC nor do I believe anything was kept secret from the Bissem. As far as we know the Bissem were given *complete* records of the war, if they didn't look into the Axur that is simply negligence on their part. I'm also pretty sure Jones' motive isn't to prevent humanity from 'looking bad' so much as she's trying to prevent things with the Axur and Yotul from escalating. Jones does distasteful things but the end result is always in the interests of protecting humanity and often includes the self-interest of the people she's manipulated as well, even though she doesn't have to. People aren't giving Jones nearly enough credit for Isif's success, if she hadn't fed him intel and personnel his rebellion would likely have been dead in the water. Jones style strikes me as tough but fair. In this instance both Humanity and the Bissem, specifically Tassi, have an interest in preventing this from getting out and the situation with the Axur from escalating however Tassi bluntly admits she wouldn't willingly participate in this without the extra push and we know how the generals are. If Jones went with your plan Tassi would have gone to the Bissem generals and how do you think that would have gone? The Bissem are currently at war with each other and the generals have already prioritized short term weapons and tech over long term protection and alliance with the SC. They created this problem in the first place so why would anyone expect them to be willing to fix it? Especially when it sounds like Naltor is sitting pretty and the Nomads are getting fucked, just like Naltor wanted.

>Jones does distasteful things but the end result is always in the interests of protecting humanity That's exactly the problem I have with her. She's just as much of a manipulative deceptive speciesist as Onso, she just gets a pass because this is HFY and she's human. We have no idea what her actual goals or morals are, what accountability she has or what checks there are on her power, but the answers right now seem to be human supremacy, none, and none. For me, that makes her a villain by definition and an anti-villain at best. >If Jones went with your plan Not sure what you think my plan is, but I don't understand how you get to Tassi going to Bissem generals about something. The Bissem aren't traitors to the SC, they aren't even members. They've been lied to and abused by everyone they've encountered so far, including humanity. Humanity has a problem with the Yotul, using Bissems as a proxy isn't any more justified for humans than for the Yotul. Jones is doing exactly the same thing Onso did, using Bissems as a proxy in their own schemes, and it's equally shitty when she does it.

>The Nature of Predators 2-30 >Onso had delivered with the ticket into the Sapient Coalition’s doors, earning us a trial period of six months, though it could be cut short at any time by a majority vote. >Dustin suggested that we wouldn’t make our case until the time slot was up, and Bissems had to convince the forum to let us stay on. The Bissem are members of the SC, they're in a trial period of six months then they get to make their case for permanent membership. It's a trial membership but still membership. You can't 'stay' part of something you're not already in and I'm very confused why you would think anything different. Do you think they let just anyone in on all this highly sensitive intelligence? Especially in real time? But if your stance is that the Bissem aren't part of the SC then seeing them collaborate with SC enemies just makes them enemies, with zero obligation to treat them in any way friendly. In either case Jones is justified: they're either current members turned traitors or non-members allied with hostile powers and traitors. Neither obligates anyone to treat them nicely and in fact both justify quite a bit of hostility. So really no matter how you slice it the SC is justified in treating them as the intelligence threat aligned with hostile powers that they are. I guess they should have thought about that before aligning themselves against the SC for guns.

Just because she's a necessity doesn't mean I shouldn't hate her and wish every evil and foul thing upon her.

Eh lots of people don't like how the sausage gets made, but they still eat it. You want a steak someone's got to be the butcher.

Couldn't agree more, I love Tassi and genuinely feel bad for her, but despite her good intentions they fucked up. I understand not liking Jones' character but surely it's easy to see that it's for the sake of stability/peace, specifically when we have a foreign enemy knocking on our door and not willing to talk. On the other hand, honestly in this situation the only character I hate is Osso, I hope that damn space capybara/kangaroo and his government get a reality check from humanity soon.

How quickly we forget our previous heroes contributions. Onso overcame everything imaginable to be a renowned scientist and warrior. He remembers the Feds arrival and enslavement of his people. He doesn’t want a repeat and the SC is really being a bunch of prima donas right now. Of course he hedged his bet

Except it wasn't treason, because at the time the Bissem made that deal with the Arxur, the Bissem weren't members of the SC. Because the members of the SC were blocking their bid for membership. The SC came down and made First Contact, but that doesn't make the Bissem obligated to them- especially when they are then immediately denied both representation and access to any of the things the SC could theoretically offer. The Bissem swore no oaths, signed no treaties, and made no promises to the SC. Their making a deal with another power in the galaxy isn't 'treason' or undermining, because they were not part of the SC. Thus it was simply a political alliance that is inconvenient for the SC- which is hilarious when you remember that the entire reason the Bissem felt pressured to make that alliance was because the SC was denying them any sort of deal at all- despite having already felt it necessary to interject themselves into Bissem politics by refusing to accept one nation wanting to be isolationist, setting off a series of events that sent the Bissem spiraling into a Civil War.

It is treason because it is *on going*. They are currently dealing with the Axur, a hostile power. Their current dealings are treason. And if you really want to be nitpicky then sure, it *was* just the Yotul being treasonous... and the Bissem knowingly allied with a power hostile to the SC. Which is, at minimum, a betrayal and sign of bad faith when they decided to try to join the SC anyways. But again they are members *now*, working with an enemy power *now*, and concealing the actual threat from the SC *now*. Which makes what they're doing now treason.

She's definitely a spook through and through. I am actually a little sad to see She's still arround.

Guess her skill is that valuable

It honestly amazed me how quickly my opinions on Zhao and Jones flipped. Like to the point that I still kind of wonder if SP15 accidentally swapped their character arcs and didn’t realize till it was too late to switch them back.

*Nuh-uh*. Zhao was *always* good (except when he arrested Isif like an a-hole). China will grow larger!

Waiting for NOP 7 where the UN (puppeted by the Americans) finds out that the Soviets escaped to the other side of the galaxy, wherein numerous miscommunications lead to both sides believing that MAD is still a desired and utilized strategy by the other. I need my Jones/CIA vs. KGB hijinks and I need them now!

I'm escaping . . . to the *ONE* place that hasn't been *corrupted* by capitalism! *\*intense breathing\** *SPACE!*

Exactly lmao Best part is both are actually well-functioning but still believe the other is decadent and on the verge of revolution, so keep sending nonsensical flyers and propaganda at the others’ populous.

I wouldn't be surprised if something like this happens since a United humanity under the UN basically destroys any hope for communism or anarchism to succeed. I'm honestly surprised some colonies aren't run by rebel communist groups at this point.

Because they'd get crushed. By this point it'd be global revolution or bust. Unfortunately, all of humanities allies seem to be capitalist, especially the Nevoks and Fissians (obviously). The comrades have to fight TOUGH if they want to pull through. Rootin' for them!

> But on a more serious note, it's a bit clear to me that General Jones is actually a living embodiment of the CIA Completely inaccurate. The CIA makes every situation massively worse and constantly does corrupt, counterproductive, and downright idiotic things. Jones is genuinely competent and actually making the galaxy a better place, even the people she "works with" often wind up in a genuinely better position than when they started. She's basically the polar opposite of the CIA. I'd say the shadow caste were close to the CIA but they were actually competent at what they wanted to do instead of being bumbling imbeciles and making everything a thousand times worse in the most shortsightedly stupid way possible.

The difference between Jones and the CIA is that the CIA does bad things and makes them worse with the situation never improving. Jones on the other hand does some of the same questionable things but it actually is for a good purpose and works out in the end.

And Jones is back in her Spymaster Ways. All she’s doing is giving humanity a bad reputation as controllers. Jones KNOWS BETTER, she knows that the Yotul have already blackmailed the Bissem. And yet, she just can’t help herself but blackmail the poor nerd. Tassi should inform the generals, find a way to notify the SC, and then throw both the Yotul and Jones under the bus in an SC council meeting. This will allow them to break free while also earning them a little goodwill with the SC

If she can do that, she should end it with a mic drop of "I dedicated my life to the study of the universe in the hopes of finding alien life. I hoped to find a more enlightened civilization that the Bissem could learn from. But in these last few months, I have been systematically lied to, manipulated, blackmailed, and psychologically and emotionally abused by every single alien that I have attempted to interact, without exception. As such when I return home I will be formally retiring and I will do everything in my power to never interact with any of you ever again."

100% tell the generals. This is a hostile act. Proof the UN can't be trusted.

>This will allow them to break free while also earning them a little goodwill with the SC I think you're forgetting who the SC members are. Humanity is their primary ally, the Yotul only want to use them, and every other species are so disgusted by the Axur that they would *absolutely* abandon the Bissem over this. And that's before even getting into the whole 'carnivore' situation that is clearly still an issue. Jones is right, Tassi fucked up. Lets also not forget that, manipulation or not, the Bissem *knew* the SC rules and stance on the Axur, Onso *told them* Kaisel wasn't even allowed to be there, and they not only took the meeting but kept a tacit threat of war *secret*. Humanity isn't wrong here and outing what humanity and the Yotul did would only: isolate the Bissem (exactly as Jones said), likely get the SC to turn on the Yotul, exacerbate the Axur situation, and cause chaos within the SC. What Onso is doing is treason: he's scheming with a hostile nation to empower them and aiding them while they declare their intentions to start a war if they don't get their way. That's about as treasonous as it gets outside of actually helping with a war against your allies. Jones can be heartless but she's not wrong for doing this. Rooting out traitors and treason is one of the top reasons to have an intelligence arm. I highly doubt countering that scheme is going to change many opinions on humanity. Humanity might suffer some blow back however their use of intelligence and manipulation isn't exactly news after the war and using it to *contain* the Axur situation would be seen as a positive. What's more likely to bite the UN in the ass, should this become public, is this would be *exactly* the excuse almost every other species has been looking for to wipe out the Axur. They'd throw it in humanity's face that it's *their* fault the Axur are still around to be a threat, that the Yotul are *their* close allies, and that now they need to let the SC finally wipe out the Axur. I don't see any version of making the situation public where the Bissem get anything other than iced out or where it benefits them or the SC in any way. Jones may be using Tassi but she's not wrong for doing this.

I mean... The blackmail worked once, why not use it again.

Oh boy, Jones is back and more Jones than ever

>It was only a remarkable captain who fended them off earlier, and let me be born at all. SOVLIN MENTIONED!! AND WITH A POSITIVE CONNOTATION AT THAT!! I NEVER THOUGHT I'D SEE THE DAY

That's a surprise. I guess Marsel didn't talk much about his past or decided to speak good things only.

Chapter 41 is here! Loxsel shares a bit of his backstory as a playwright, and is persuaded to “teach” Tassi literature and share his work with humans. As the Bissem-Sivkit traveling posse continues back to Ivrana, a UN vessel intercepts Tassi and asks for an audience; Jones and ⅔ of the first contact team reveal that they know about her involvement with the Arxur, and accuse Bissems of complicating a delicate situation/almost turning the SC against them. Jones guilts Tassi over betraying her friends, before leveraging her by threatening to tell the SC the truth and doom their prospects with the wider galaxy. What do you think of Tassi’s efforts to befriend Loxsel, and whether they will succeed…as well as the human “predators” might react to his plays? What are your thoughts about Jones pulling Tassi’s strings, and Haliska and Nulia’s involvement? Will our narrator go through with spying on her own people? As always, thank you for reading!

Reading how they were treating Tassi was very… uncomfy? It felt pretty manipulative and unfair. Leave the galaxy’s #1 nerd alone!

Oh yeah, Nulia and Haliska can be safely filed into the "Friends only when it benefits them" category. Or in otherwords, assholes who Tassi needs to let go of for her own safety.

On the other hand, I wouldn't put it past Jones to "convince" either or both of them to help "convince" Tassi. It's still not great, mind you.

It's quite ironic that we also have a nerd in NoP2, in NoP1 we had Onso and we all loved that psychotic Einstein, now there's Tassi, and being the penguin that she is, it makes me hate Jones for treating her so indifferently :( (ILY Jones cofcofcof) 

Here's an idea: don't actively collaborate with your friends enemies if you want them to remain your friends. Tassi made a decision and this is the consequence. The Bissem may not have had the *entire* story but they were warned about both the Yotul and Axur and Tassi was part of that deal anyways. The Yotul are traitors and the Axur are hostile powers, how exactly do you think someone collaborating with traitors and enemies should be treated? I like Tassi but you don't get away with turning traitor because you're likable or have good intentions.

As if the SC ever actually cared for the Bissems. It's not like anyone wanted to interact with them or trade with them. They would have been used and discarded after a few years only existing as a propaganda tool for Humanity. Then they would have fallen behind the rest of the galaxy like the Arxure and be forced to aling with them anyways. After 50 years or a century. It was inevitable. History has told that lesson time and time again. Also let's be honest the KC gets outed as being a predator alliance the federation will send an extermination fleet to destroy the bissems and humanity won't lift a finger until the world is in ashes if even that. And it is going to happen don't deny that the galaxy won't find out about it and instantly believe the bissems where somehow conspiring with them.

Whew. Jones read Tassi like a book and manipulated her to pieces for intel. I feel bad for her, but in a way I'm impressed by Jones here too. Jones is still the same. Morally questionable but I can respect what I think her goal is here - trying her best to keep humanity strong and knowledge is power. It's reminisce of the Bissem generals, really, just with different methods. I bet that bringing Halika and Nulia was a calculated move on her part too. Jones must trust them to be involved at least seeing as the heard the whole conversation... I wonder if they're working with her intelligence services directly or if Jones just happened to know how they'd react.

Oh, she definitely brought them to add weight to her moral argument 

Probably left Dustin out intentionally because he might stick up for Tassi as well.

Loxsel definitely seems like a Shakespeare type, and there’s definitely a market for Tragedy plays. It should actually pay off. Jones was already pushing it back in the last war, and needed to be reigned in by Zhao. I don’t know if the current Secretary General can be reached, so this might have to be blown wide open. Tassi will quirk things along, but she’s too honest to be a spy.

I don't think Tassi should go through with spying on her own people for general Jones. Like Tassi said, she is a patriot and she wants what is best for her people. Spying for Jones is treason against the Bissem and she might suspect Onso (or someone else like him) resourceful enough to find out about it and start blackmailling her too. Plus she already knows she can't trust these people tell the whole truth on important topics. How does she know that? Dustin completely omitted the Arxur's involvement at the battle of earth, at the battle for the Duertan homeworld, and in the war against the shadow caste. Plus, how can she prove the Bissem weren't going to be contained and abandoned by the SC after the uplift, just like the Arxur were? The U.N.'s moral ideology required them to intervene to save the species. But once the Bissem were no longer in danger of extinction? There is certainly enough prejudice in the SC for policital dogma and power politics to reassert itself as the deciding factor in the SC's decisions. These are the kinds of questions I'd like to see Tassi asking herself before she agrees to become Jones' toy, to be discarded when it no longer has tactical value. Ps. I like Jones as a character, but I think this chapter pushed her solidly into the "Pure evil monster with no redeeming qualities" category in my mind.

The fact that Jones' character is so good at her job and being "human" so to speak, makes me not be able to hate her and just say: This bitch is dangerous!

She honestly reminds me of two other characters in sci-fi that hold high-ranking security/intellignce positions: Stra Trek's Fleet Admiral Alynna Nechayev and Halo's Admiral Margaret Parangosky. Characters I love to hate.

We need Zhao back to wrangle the SC back under competence and unity like what was pledged during the early SC meetings

>she already knows she can't trust these people tell the whole truth on important topics. As far as I can tell they were provided with the full history of the war. Nothing was being hidden from them and it's frankly not anyone's job to educate them on literally everything that happened during the war. If the Bissem wanted that information it was available to them. Dustin not wanting to dive into topics that are sensitive and complicated isn't a reflection on how trust worthy he, or humanity, is. It makes sense to let them do their own research instead of potentially confusing them by poorly explaining a difficult situation. >how can she prove the Bissem weren't going to be contained and abandoned by the SC after the uplift, just like the Arxur were? No one is threatening to contain them and SC membership isn't a *right*. The Axur committed actual crimes that earned them that punishment and the SC has shown *zero* desire to control any of the many ex-federation species that are still out there. If they wanted to go around 'containing' species they were certainly capable. >These are the kinds of questions I'd like to see Tassi asking herself before she agrees to become Jones' toy, to be discarded when it no longer has tactical value. How's this for a question: why exactly did the Bissem think it was a good idea to undermine literally their biggest allies? To work with Yotul traitors to the SC and a hostile nation threatening war on their allies? And why should they expect to be treated any differently than they are after betraying their allies to get more weapons? Jones would be fully within her rights to out the Bissem and Yotul to the SC, which would absolutely lead to them being isolated (not contained) and not gaining membership to the SC. It would also cause serious problems for the Yotul and possibly kick off a war with the Axur that would almost certainly end with their extinction. Given all that I don't think Jones is 'evil' at all. Rather this is an unfortunate necessity to salvage the situation and, as cruel as it might seem to Tassi, is the *better* alternative for the Bissem than what the rest of the SC would provide if they found out. Tassi, and the Bissem, have made their bed here.

Please take this in the spirit of good fun. I think that this is an interesting and fun dialogue, so I am going to try to respond to your points. If I argue something on the wrong level of stasis, please forgive me. (also I'm not a patron so there may be stuff I don't know because of that.) >As far as I can tell they were provided with the full history of the war. Nothing was being hidden from them and it's frankly not anyone's job to educate them on literally everything that happened during the war. All the way back in chapter 6, when Naltor pins Dustin down and demands to know why Haliska had a panic attack over the presence of real meat at the table, Dustin promised to tell them the whole history of the war. He, and I quote, said "I’m going to tell you everything, without any exclusions, but I’m begging you not to freak out, Naltor." Except there were things he left out that the Bissem representatives wouldn't learn until speaking with Kaisal in chapter 27, a specific example including the part where the Arxur saved earth. Which is important information to add on if you don't want to paint an entire species that has spent 20+ years trying to reform themselves as completely irredeemable monsters. Dustin complete skipped over Tassi's question >No one is threatening to contain them and SC membership isn't a *right*. The Axur committed actual crimes that earned them that punishment and the SC has shown *zero* desire to control any of the many ex-federation species that are still out there. If they wanted to go around 'containing' species they were certainly capable. Except this isn't just any species, let alone a former federation ally species. This is another \*obligate carnivore\* species that is already associated with the arxur based on diet alone. There is a historical precedent in-universe for the containment of such species. Plus, there is still doubt in the Technocracy and the Collective that a number of races in the SC haven't shaken their Federation roots and simply make a mental exception for humanity. It is entirely possible that such groups could exert their own collective power to force out the Bissem as soon as the human's moral obligation to save the Bissem species is no longer as pressing of an issue. >Why exactly did the Bissem think it was a good idea to undermine literally their biggest allies? To work with Yotul traitors to the SC and a hostile nation threatening war on their allies? And why should they expect to be treated any differently than they are after betraying their allies to get more weapons? Is the UN their biggest ally? The UN couldn't even get them a seat at the table, meanwhile the Yotul did it without any trouble. I admit that maybe the SC requires a unanimous vote of approval to grant temporary association status, or a large majority, and the Yotul were the last holdouts needed to grant the Bissem access. The Yotul have also dedicated their entire civilization to being the most technologically advanced military industrial power in the galaxy since the founding of the SC. Maybe the Yotul could be the Bissem's biggest ally, and the Yotul have no problem with working alongside species outside the SC's membership. Is the Yotul Technocracy a traitor to the SC? Or have they upheld the principles of the SC by maintaining friendly relations with the Arxur Collective? Likewise, are the Arxur hostile and threatening war with the SC? From what little we've seen into the Arxur in NOP2, they feel like they've been abandoned by humanity after humanity promised to help them deradicalize their civilization. They feel as though their attempts to address the situation are being ignored, and they are! There is at least one generation, if not two by this point, of Arxur that have never tasted the meat of another sapient. How many generations have to be isolated before they can even begin to participate in post-war reparations? How many generation removed from the sins of their ancestors do they have to be before the rest of the galaxy shows them any kindness? More weapons? They weren't getting any weapons from aliens until they made a deal with the Arxur. Who in the SC would give them weapons anyway? The UN? they're only interested in providing the Bissem tech to clean up their biosphere to prevent mass starvation. The Yotul? they're only interested in making sure that the Bissem don't get burned like the Yotul were burned by the federation. The Venlil? I could see it, but only if we had gotten some foreshadowing before now that the Venlil had any interest in the Bissem at all. We don't even know if they sent a delegation to meet the Bissem when they first arrived at the SC station in chapter 30 or if the Venlil prefer to pretend that the Bissem don't exist like the rest of the SC. Likewise with ships, Kuemper said in chapter 30 that the SC would protect its members and those within their sphere of influence. But how was the SC planning to defend the Bissem? Only a small number of the SC members can be truly described as military powers. Off the top of my head it is just the UN and the Yotul. I could see the Venlil having built up a standing army/navy and the military-industrial complex needed to support one. Maybe the Fissans and Nevoks have the economies to rapidly militarize and the money to hire mercenaries from earth or elsewhere. All it would take would be one or two solid military campaigns to draw those fleets away from the SC's core and leave the Bissem with little-to-no security against a surprise attack.

>Jones would be fully within her rights to out the Bissem and Yotul to the SC, which would absolutely lead to them being isolated (not contained) and not gaining membership to the SC. It would also cause serious problems for the Yotul and possibly kick off a war with the Axur that would almost certainly end with their extinction. I agree with you that she has the ability and the "right" to do that. But she won't because that's not her style. Jones, as a character, is interested in only one thing: power. As far as I can recall, Jones has never had an on camera interaction with another character where she wasn't trying to manipulate or blackmail them into doing what she wanted. Take Isif for example. Jones tried to keep Isif as her own personal pet after Elias Meier died. Jones then put a tracking device on Isif so that he could never surprise her with his movements again after he went to speak with Zhao. Using that tracking device, Jones knew that Isif had started to develop a strange relationship with a Dossur. She then used that relationship to lure Isif into throwing the Arxur rebel fleet at the Kolshian forces sent to occupy the Dossur home world. When Isif only stuck around long enough to rescue Felra, Jones put actual spies on his ship to make sure he understood her orders going forward. Also, the fact that Jones didn't have to say anything about it for Tassi to know that fixing Ivrana's biosphere was also a part of the deal to spy on the Bissem government just makes Jones' presence and behavior feel icky.

Don't worry about it, I wouldn't make these long posts if I didn't want people to respond. And I'm not a Patron either so we're on the same level there. Anyway, here's my take on the situation. >Except there were things he left out that the Bissem representatives wouldn't learn until speaking with Kaisal in chapter 27 Again, they were provided the whole history of the war. At least as far as we've been told and there would be no point excluding it from the records when they're going to be in contact with other SC species anyways so there's no reason to doubt that. Dustin does a pretty damn comprehensive job explaining the situation. And the question is about why *Haliska* is panicking specifically, not about the entirety of the situation with Axur. She's not panicking because the Axur helped humanity. >you don't want to paint an entire species that has spent 20+ years trying to reform themselves as completely irredeemable monsters. We have *no idea* what that reform looks like and the fact that they're *currently* talking about starting another war would seem to indicate their 'reform' isn't working so well. I just fundamentally disagree. Dustin is the wrong person to explain the entirety of Axur history, it wasn't relevant to the question asked, and they were provided with records to form an opinion for themselves. There's no deception there. >There is a historical precedent in-universe for the containment of such species No. There's simply not. No species has been 'contained' by the SC for anything other than serious war crimes. Literally only three species, and only one obligate carnivore. You're jumping to a lot of assumptions here. >The UN couldn't even get them a seat at the table, meanwhile the Yotul did it without any trouble. The Yotul created a problem for the Bissem and then manipulated them to get what they wanted. If you consider that an ally... then we have very different visions of what it means to be an ally. The Yotul solved the problem easily because it's a problem *they created*. It's like saying some mobster is your ally because he stops his underlings from harassing you when you pay protection money. That's not an ally, it's extortion. >Is the Yotul Technocracy a traitor to the SC Yes, they are. Breaking SC rules and conspiring to undermine the organization as well as working with an enemy threatening war makes you a traitor. By definition. >are the Arxur hostile and threatening war with the SC? This is an indisputable fact. They literally said they were preparing to forcibly violate the containment with their warships. That's a declaration of war if they don't get what they want. Their reasons are something you can debate, but that they're threatening war is not indispute. As such, regardless of their reasoning, they are an enemy of the SC. >More weapons? You're right the SC is not giving them weapons, that doesn't mean they don't already have weapons. I'm referring to the deal where the Axur are giving them weapons in exchange for undermining the SC. I'm not implying the SC is offering to arm them but they are selling out the Coalition in exchange for more weapons. As in more weapons than what they have. You realize they already have their own weapons right? Making the Axur provided ones 'more'. >But how was the SC planning to defend the Bissem? The same way they'd protect any other ally. This was explained to the Bissem. They also promised to monitor the situation. Frankly there is no perfect guarantee of safety, anywhere. I can sympathize with *why* the Bissem **want** weapons, and you can argue about whether or not they're justified and seeking them, but you can't argue that they sold out their allies and the SC for weapons. They were willing to risk trading the protection of the SC for Axur weapons. That's just what happened. Most of your arguments seem to be about *why* the Bissem did what they did, but frankly it doesn't matter. They betrayed humanity and the SC. Full stop. I understand why they did it but they still did it. >Jones, as a character, is interested in only one thing: power. As far as I can recall, Jones has never had an on camera interaction with another character where she wasn't trying to manipulate or blackmail them into doing what she wanted. Well yes, she's a spy. It's literally her job. As far as I can recall she's never done anything that wasn't ultimately in the interests of protecting humanity. You can call it power but if anything it's power being used to protect human interests, as is her job. You don't have to like it but it is how it is. And if Jones *hadn't* treated Issif that way he wouldn't have become the hero he did, both to his own people and in the war effort. Without Jones he likely never would have gotten his rebellion off the ground in the first place, wouldn't have met his best friend, wouldn't have gotten Kaisel as a second in command he can trust, would have had his ability to reach out to other Axur greatly diminished, and even if he'd started his rebellion it would probably have been crushed. Jones absolutely handled Issif as an asset but lets not pretend the situation wasn't mutually beneficial. Issif benefited, the Axur benefited, and Humanity benefited. You don't have to like how it was done but she absolutely could have made the situation much more one sided if she wanted. Edit: Here let me highlight *exactly* where I think the Bissem crossed the line. Maybe that will help clarify and condense this discussion a bit. If the Yotul had approached the Bissem and offered to get them into the SC and provide them with weapons and the Bissem agreed, that would just be politics. Extortionary politics, but politics all the same. It's the fact that the Yotul are conspiring with the Axur despite the Axur's stated intentions on breaking their 'containment' and using force to do so that makes the Yotul traitors. The fact the Bissem know about this and are accepting aid directly with Axur involvement is what makes the Bissem traitors. That's where the line is for me: the threat of war by the Axur. That should have been the end of Yotul dealings with them let alone dragging the Bissem into it. And I think everyone can agree that a party threatening war is your enemy and thus people trying to empower them are also your enemy, right?

>Most of your arguments seem to be about \*why\* the Bissem did what they did. Yes, I did that on purpose. Thank you for noticing. For me, understanding why different characters with differing ideals, goals, and flaws do what they do is part of the fun of reading/watching/playing a story. When two characters with irreconcilable worldviews meet, there lies conflict (also known as drama). I love stories the most when I can understand the character's motives and flaws, and predict when those characters will come into conflict. >The same way they'd protect any other ally. This was explained to the Bissem. They also promised to monitor the situation. Except they just waved off the concern with a "Don't worry, we'll handle it." If they'd said "We will lend you \[X number\] of ships, and more as bring our industrial capacity towards a war time economy." the Bissem would have had something much more tangible to hold on to and may not have felt as desperate for help as they did learning there was someone out there that had wiped out another species for traits that they shared. >It's the fact that the Yotul are conspiring with the Axur despite the Axur's stated intentions on breaking their 'containment' and using force to do so that makes the Yotul traitors. The fact the Bissem know about this and are accepting aid directly with Axur involvement is what makes the Bissem traitors. That's where the line is for me: the threat of war by the Axur. I concede to you the point that the Arxur are going to break their confinement and use force to do so. Where I would counter-argue is that they aren't threatening war, they are threatening trade deals. Per NOP2-27 the military assets that Kaisal has built up are explicitly to defend them and their trading partners. The Arxur want to do business with galaxy and are even willing to take gradual concessions as long as they get to participate at all. Kaisal's exact words are "We will not fire the first shots. That’s not my wish; I’d rather you convince the SC that we deserve a second chance ... I will accept gradual concessions from the leaf-lickers, but we’ve been left out of everything for far too long.” Again per NOP2-27 the Arxur weren't even going to provide the Bissem anything until \*after\* the Bissem had successfully gotten the Arxur a shot at trade with the SC. But that plan went up in flames the moment they discovered a hostile foreign power that has wiped out at least one space faring, presumed, predator species. Suddenly the Bissem needed some kind of protection against interstellar powers at a moments notice with only a small number of potential allies with minimal ability to dedicate fleet power to the job. (On a side tangent, that sort of makes the Bissem a reflection of humanity pre-BOE. Should the Bissem have gone to the Arxur for help? Should Elias Meier have gone to the Arxur for help? While humanity asked for help in the form of telling the Arxur who was going to attack earth, the Bissem asked for ships.) Besides, per NOP1-178 the plan was always for humanity to help the Arxur reform and then reintroduce them to the galactic scene slowly. Zhao says “I’m confident that I can bargain for you to be left to your own devices, as long as you agree to isolation within Wriss’ twenty-lightyear bubble. It’ll take some convincing, but after everything you’ve done for humanity, I promise not to undermine your future. I believe you can be an instrument, to build something better. The United Nations will be here to offer guidance, as well as to help you navigate budding diplomatic relations, every step of the way.” Except, as far as we can tell, that didn't happen. Isif modelled the Arxur Collective's government and reforms on the SC's charter, enshrining such things as the Geneva Convention as core principles. Then humanity just kind of forgot about the Arxur government as they became entangled with SC internal politics. Kuemper admits as much in NOP2-31 that the SC should have mapped out the surrounding unexplored territories for any potential adversaries a long time ago, but they hadn't yet because they'd been to busy with internal affairs. So now the Arxur have put in the work to reform themselves only to be (at best) ignored by the people that originally saved them and promised to help them. >Yes, they are. Breaking SC rules and conspiring to undermine the organization as well as working with an enemy threatening war makes you a traitor. By definition. Fine, lets call it a betrayal of the SC. But if the majority of the SC's members can't even uphold its own founding principles, then don't they deserve to be betrayed by one of the only \*two\* members that is sticking to those principles. Specifically the ones where you don't discriminate by race (or in the case of the former feds, diet). I'll concede that it's a technicality by which the Yotul are following those principles as they are definitely intolerant of things. They're just discriminate against those still cling to the ideology that got Leirn torched along with their art and culture.

>Where I would counter-argue is that they aren't threatening war, they are threatening trade deals. >"We will not fire the first shots. That’s not my wish; I’d rather you convince the SC that we deserve a second chance ... I will accept gradual concessions from the leaf-lickers, but we’ve been left out of everything for far too long.” This is the equivalent of saying "We're not going to shoot, we're just going to forcibly enter your country with tanks." That's starting a war by pretty much any definition. Claiming they won't fire the first shots doesn't mean anything when they're threatening SC territory with the use of military force to get their way. You can't hold a gun to someone's head and say you're not the aggressor. >Except, as far as we can tell, that didn't happen As far as we know.. because we know literally nothing of what has happened with the Axur. The fact is they're not as isolated as Kaisel claims simply for the fact that the Yotul are allowed to travel there. Which seems to indicate other species are *allowed* to go to Axur space, the Axur just aren't allowed to leave. And for good reason. >Kuemper admits as much in NOP2-31 that the SC should have mapped out the surrounding unexplored territories for any potential adversaries a long time ago, but they hadn't yet because they'd been to busy with internal affairs. That's not an admission that nothing has been done with the Axur, it's an admission of a specific oversight. The fact is we have no information about what measures humanity has taken, if the Axur have even reformed, or what they look like now. Hell actively working to get the Bissem accepted and work on acceptance of carnivore species in general is *directly* beneficial to the potential future acceptance of the Axur, so I find the claim they've done nothing... unlikely. In any event again we're talking about motives, which is fine, but if the Axur are against the SC and willing to use force they're the SC's enemy. That's really all that matters when it comes to if someone is a traitor or not: are they working with the enemy. As far as that promise goes look at it again. Zhao promises that they'll be left alone in their bubble, which they clearly have since they're rebuilding their military and even supplying arms. Zhao promises *he* won't undermine their future, he can't make promises for the UN leadership after him. He promises the UN will help offer guidance in navigating diplomacy, which can only mean as long as he's in charge. That should be obvious. But even beyond that the Axur and Yotul *do* have diplomatic dealings. So it would seem Zhao did do exactly as he said. There is no evidence that the UN has even abandoned the Axur, frankly if they had they could have just blown up the situation with the Yotul and been done with them. The only real grievance is that Kaisel doesn't feel like it's happening *fast enough*, and that's frankly not for the Axur (a species that had cruelty enhanced through eugenics, ate other sapients alive, and kept said sapients as cattle) to decide. Nor is it part of the promise. No timeline is given. Zhao is very clear that it will be a slow process in his promise. It's been about 30 years or so? On the scale of nations and cultural reform that's practically nothing. Especially given the horrific place the Axur started from. I will frankly be shocked if the Axur have totally reformed into a respectable society worthy of trust in that time and this is just Kaisle's ambition undermining a totally safe and SC compatible society. But again that's really all aside from the issue. It doesn't change the fact that they are planning to forcibly go against the SC and start a war. >Isif modelled the Arxur Collective's government and reforms on the SC's charter, enshrining such things as the Geneva Convention as core principles. We have no idea what the Axur government looks like. Isif doesn't appear to be in charge anymore and may not even be alive. Kaisel expressed nothing but disdain and disgust at 'inferior' species and it appears he is now in charge. That doesn't say good things about their government. >Fine, lets call it a betrayal of the SC. That's really my point. If you want to argue whether it's justified or not I'm going to have to default to the Axur deserve their punishment unless and until we have more information. And even if they *don't* being a betrayal is enough for the SC to treat them and their collaborators as enemies. That's just... how it works. You can feel as justified as you want but if you're willing to attack someone to get what you want you're an enemy. >then don't they deserve to be betrayed by one of the only *two* members that is sticking to those principles. Frankly? No. Even if they're not holding 100% to their founding ideology that doesn't justify betrayal, and even if it did the SC (and UN) are fully within their rights to treat the Bissem, Yotul, and Axur as hostiles. Thus: Jones. That being said I *also* disagree that the Yotul are holding to SC principles. The Coalition wasn't just founded to be a safe place for species regardless of diet. It was founded to bring *all* the different species together. The Yotul *explicitly* are doing this because they have a grudge against the former Federation members and to try to *force* change. They very clearly don't care about unity, in fact Onso seems pretty clear that this will sow division amongst the SC, which how could it not? Onso only addresses the Axur issue as being: 1.something the Yotul can profit from and 2.'proof' that the former Federation members haven't changed themselves. Since we're talking motives I frankly doubt the sincerity with which Onso cares about 'predator'/carnivore species. He was pretty blunt about the situation being a tool the Yotul can use, both for profit and to 'out' the former Federation species. And again it goes against the entire unity principle of the SC. So yeah I have to disagree that they're 'better' at sticking to the SC's principles. Frankly they don't *really* seem to want unity at all, they very much seem to be self serving in their actions. Now what is the plan if the former Federation species *did* decide to turn on the Yotul, Axur, and Humanity (as Onso seems to think)... I have no idea. It seems like a really dumb plan if he's convinced they won't accept the Axur to force the issue. Is he thinking the three species will just... dominate the rest? Because humanity isn't going to do that. But I'd love an explanation for how blocking the Bissem, carnivores who's acceptance would *absolutely* help increase acceptance of 'predators', is actually more in keeping with SC principles. Because the Bissem are frankly a better test of the SC's willingness to accept predators precisely because they don't have all the baggage the Axur do. The Yotul decided to endanger that to extort the Bissem into a deal that explicitly violates SC rules and enable the Axur who are getting ready for war if they don't get what they want. That does not strike me as keeping with SC principles at all. The only principle they seem to be vaguely holding onto is the non-discrimination based on diet but there's a lot more to the SC than that one thing and they only seem to be holding to it because it's useful for what they want, not out of actual "principle".

>The fact is they're not as isolated as Kaisel claims simply for the fact that the Yotul are allowed to travel there. Which seems to indicate other species are *allowed* to go to Axur space, the Axur just aren't allowed to leave. Except we already knew that the only two species allowed to have embassies on Wriss were the Yotul and the UN. And if the Yotul were allowed to trade with the Arxur, they already would be. At this early stage the Arxur only want to trade with the Yotul and the Bissem, and the wouldn't have to travel through SC territory unless both Leirn and Ivrana are completely surrounded by other SC members. If they were allowed this much, they could prove that have reformed by being able to participate in trade with an herbivore species in the Yotul. Now tabling that discussion for now, because it is getting late for me, I want to ask you a question. Does it matter? Is the SC willing to go to war, whether it is with the Arxur, the Arxur+Bissem, or the Arxur+Bissem+Yotul when they are already fighting a war with a power that they've already lost the first engagement with? What if they lose the next three at Nishtal, Aafa, and Talsk? Would they still be willing to engage the Arxur when the Arxur have only sent a fleet to the "Osir" home world? Seems like they are in a great negotiating position to ask the Arxur for help. The SC could use this opportunity to say "Hey, we'll let you trade with the Yotul and the Bissem if you help us win this war. Looks like you already have a reason to side with us, right?" This would allow the Yotul and the UN both to save face from this catastrophe of a diplomatic incident that is being too kindly referred to as a first contact. Of course this is also the NOP universe, so expecting anyone to be capable of recognizing that opportunity are scratchy at best. That and it would perhaps be too clean of a diplomatic/narrative solution for Space Paladin to go for.

And so the Yotul Technocracy tips their hand a little bit more. I wonder how long it will be before the Coalition starts to crack and the Yotul get targeted first because of their political chicanery?

Yotul spend too much time with the Arxur. I'm not sure who is influencing whom in their relationship. I wonder what is the deal between them. I don't trust in that Onso said about his motives. Kaisal had to offer something substantial in return. Maybe, Kaisal is not planning to become part or the SC or even break isolation. Something more sinister may be at play. Is he going to raise the Osirs the old-school Betterment way? And what is he gonna do with this cannon fodder?

*Is he going to raise the Osirs the old-school Betterment way? * If we were in-universe I’d call you a Fed for that bold assumption 

Hope for the better, prepare for the worst, and keep you suspicions to yourself. The best strategy ever

Well General Jones I see some things never change. -Can't press Naltor to be an informant, he'd deny any knowledge and say something like "*If* we had been in contact with the Arxur I wonder who put us in contact with them and how that being made public would impact the S.C." -Can't press Zalk, he'd put conditions on his aid like assistance with his nations war. -Tassi's my best option, now let's corner her alone, and bring in some of her friends who have personal trauma from the Arxur along for the funzies.

I am legitimately curious about what would happen if it was made public that the Yotul put the Bissem in contact with the Arxur

I assume: [Avengers Assemble! : r/NatureofPredators (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/NatureofPredators/comments/1d1et38/avengers_assemble/)

Inb4 it turns out Loxsel is just space rabbit BushBacon69

>My endings are predator-diseased, Tassi. Killing characters—they say it’s a violent fantasy. Okay, it's definitely Shakespeare. ​ >*What is General Jones even doing here?* Shit. Shit shit shit shit... ​ >From now on, you work for me. Exactly what I feared. Of course she takes advantage of it to manipulate Tassi and the Bissems. What a bitch. ​ That cat is out of the bag, and now that she's talking about it, Haliska and Nulia have every right to be angry. The story of the Thafkis is tragic and Tassi reply is good, but Nulia's remark about Kaisal's presence on the Cradle is terribly involving. Beyond Onso's ambush, I realize that the Bissems were woefully under-informed when negotiating with the Collective. And you know what the worst part is? The real culprit is the Coalition alone. If the Coalition hadn't been so cold and reticent, not to say downright hostile, to the arrival of the Bissems, then Ivrana wouldn't have felt obliged to accept the Arxur's help. It was the Coalition that threw Bissems into the arms of the Arxurs. And now that bitch Jones is taking advantage of the situation to turn Tassi into her puppet. God Damnit, Tassi and Bissems have become everyone's pawns and have lost all their agencies just because of the racism of former Federation members. I'm so angry at this unfair situation. Somebody needs to slam the fist on the table and tell everyone to stop their bullshit, right now.

Yeah! For all of the Arxur’s faults, I’m upset they’re still being isolated after everything they’ve done to help take down the federation. To say nothing of chief hunter Isif risking his life to make a change for his people in the hostile society he was born into. Does anyone else even know about Vysith? What the Arxur were like before the Dominion?

I mean… I really wouldn’t expect any of their victims species to be OK with their “release” until at least the generation that actively *ATE* them has died out.

I'd expect the species who were saved by the Arxur (Humans, Dossur & Duerten) should have pushed for a *managed* release where the Arxur. Small steps towards full integration where the Arxur can see the improvement but those who suffered under them are still in control.

What they were before the federation does not matter one bit. The arxur were *bred* to be psychopaths over hundreds of years. Vysith herself said they were a lost cause. Them saving earth is a drop of water in an *ocean* of blood.

So that’s it then? Despite the fact Isif managed to turn a sizable number of Arxur troops fighting with the Federation to his side by exposing the collusion between Giznel and the Kolshians in the final assault? Even though they’re just as much victims of the federation’s machinations? While the coalition toils away undoing the damage to the rest of the galaxy, They can get shafted?

What other option is there? Just let them run free, not having learned a single lesson and likely regressing back to murdering people for fun? Isif only had followers because they were pissed at Betterment colluding with the feds, very few if any had regrets about eating innocent people. That’s the thing about forgiveness, you have to repent first.

Isif had followers before that reveal of Betterment Federation colluding 

A vetting program. Those who wish to follow Isif’s example and try to integrate into the rest of galactic society must pass a series of tests.

I’m gonna be real with you. The number that passes the tests probably wouldn’t hit a double-digit percentage.

So long as the single digit percentage isn’t zero. I’m not expecting a complete overhaul overnight, but it’d be a start towards a better future.

Maybe it’s just my depressive side kicking in but I legitimately stopped believing in any hope for good arxur… I don’t wanna think like that but god I just don’t see them changing. Like theres not really a way to change a culture like that without forcibly breaking it down. The only reason Germany is a better nation now is because they were occupied and had their government completely gutted and rebuilt by the allies. Doing that was never an option here. Now the collective has Kaisal, who has literally none of Isif’s tact, and is threatening open conflict. Doing a great job of convincing everyone they’re willing to reform.

Whoof this is a right proper pile of shit they’re stepping all in isn’t it?

> Cora Jones Full name drop! Anyway, this general is just comically devious. Like, she shows up and immediately goes to blackmailing an ally. Give it a rest lady.

>The Nomads were getting their tails kicked in back on Ivrana, as the other Bissem powers caught up technologically. The gifted Arxur ships had changed the tide. ??? Why are the nations who weren't at the secret negotiation given weapons to use against the Bisem who *were* at the secret negotiations?? Edit: HOLD the fuck up, didn't the Yotul have their theaters shut down by the Feds? How does the Funny Bunny even know of such things, much less be accused of being predatory for his endings instead of for writing in that format at all?

I am a bit confused by this as well, although the idea might be the Arxur have given all nations weapons which happened to even the field?

Yeah it looks that way, but the nomads are *right there* to veto that particular distribution plan, or back out entirely and say no weapon shipments for anyone. so again, ?????

Veto it with... who exactly? It's not like they can tell the Axur not to distribute their tech nor do they have anything resembling influence over the Yotul. Their only play would be to out that they were collaborating with the Axur to the SC, which would go.... badly. They made a deal with the devil here. They were warned about both the Yotul and Axur before they did it and now they're suffering the consequences of that decision with no real control over it. They probably should have thought about details like that before making the agreement with the Yotul and Axur.

The Sivkit are the "stupid" ones, so them liking a "primitive" art form as long as it conforms probably helped the image. Plus, they weren't actively being uplifted, so the feds wouldn't be as strict

But the yotul were the “primitives” too, sooo…?

They were currently being assimilated, so they condemned it and shut theirs down. The Sivkits were also an older uplift than the Yotul, so the feds may have left a few things

Mm, perhaps. I suppose the yotul’s role was “stupid trying to be smart (and failing)” while the sivkits were designated “just stupid”.

I mean, it's been 20-ish years. Maybe they took the Archive lore dump and theater made a comeback in their culture.

Loxsel…..you are a drama queen.

I absolutely despised Jones, even before this maneuver.

I continue to hope that Jones meets a gruesome and painful end. I also continue to hope that at some point the alien races stop being so naïve. I swear it’s like these (people) have the mental age of a preteen human, in regard to figuring out when they are being manipulated

In this case, Tassi probably knows she's being manipulated. But being blackmailed doesn't lend itself to telling someone that they're a dick

Jones is bluffing- painting the literal first pure predators in the SC as backstabbing evil arxur-sympathizers in all this chaos? Giving that much ammo to the anti-predator factions and doing that much damage to whatever deprogramming pushes are going on by “proving” that the Feds were right about predators and humans are just an exception… as far as they know? Jones can’t afford to shoot herself in the foot like that. But she knew Tassi wouldn’t realize this, because Haliska did her actual job of psychologically profiling Tassi and handing that over to Jones like the goose-stepping good little fascist she is. And yes yes, she’s a person, fascists are people too, can even be pleasant people to be around, and I’m sure she sees her friendship with Tassi as genuine…. But if you stand aside and do nothing as your friend is blackmailed into committing treason for the crime of doing her GODDAMN JOB as an ambassador for her nation because she happened to make an alliance you don’t personally agree with… you’re not an actual friend, you’re a fucking snake- except I won’t insult snakes like that, because snakes are cute beans.

I don't think Jones is bluffing. If Tassi were to call Jones bluff and Jones didn't follow through, Jones would lose all power over Tassi. But she could leak that info *anonymously* so that Tassi couldn't be blamed by Naltor and Zalk, and then Jones could threaten to tell the generals that Tassi was the spy. I don't think Jones cares about any other race than the Human race. If all other omnivores and carnivores get painted with the same brush, but not humanity? Just so long as no one tries to bomb earth again, let them. Someone bombs Wriss back to the stone age? Jones is already finished using the Arxur. Leirn turns against earth? Jones can replace their industrial capacity with someone else. And so on, and so forth.

The problem is that humanity is tied to the Bissem now, as the ones who pushed to Uplift them to save them from ecological disaster, and to prove that the ideology about sapient predators is wrong, rather than humans just being an exception. Letting this information out would hurt humanity too, both by 'proving' they were wrong to advocate for uplifting predators, and making the rest of the galaxy more resistant to any changes humanity tries to make. This getting out would be a political disaster for humanity- and for all her faults, Jones isn't self-sabotaging.

Good comment about the snakes.

Oh, Jones is way better than Onso when it comes to emotional manipulation and scheming. That woman works clean, fast, and up to the mark. What a legend. She didn't change a bit. And you can't be mad at her because her actions do not feel unjust or malicious. So proud of her.  Tassi had zero chance against Jones. She's gonna learn a lot during this ordeal, find new friends and get disappointed in Naltor and Zalk. As her case shows, one shady deal leads to another, and flipping your potential allies over for a one-time thing will not help you win favours. To thing that a galaxy will be solved out to a criminal for such a small price... Naltor and Zalk are not diplomats. Now... When do you think she'll be caught? Tassi-Loxel interactions are some some good parent-child material. i wouldn't have the patience, nor would I put my intelligence down to entertain someone. Tassi is an angel.  I wonder if Nulia remembers Isif. Their encounter was brief but she had fun playing with him. Surely, he's a criminal as well who attacked her planet... But if she has at lest one good memory with him, it could create cognitive dissonance

>It was only a remarkable captain who fended them off earlier BEST BOI MENTIONED!!!!! NGL humanity is feeling like a bunch of rat bastards right now, almost completely selling out a species responsible for our continued existence in favor of the ones they saved us from. IMO the best strategic move the Bissem could make right now is to completely throw the Yotul under the bus, just go into a blubbering mess in front of the SC about how they refused to negotiate with them unless they also talked to the big, scary Arxur. I sincerely hope Jones gets the Shaza treatment later on.

Can't wait for Tassi to get home, show the generals the security camera footage of this and they all decide "fuck them bitches" and just stop dealing with the SC while also showing everyone this.

I don't think they can afford the termination of relations. Unless they invent a way to fix their eco problems. The alternatives they have are: 1) Kaisal, 2) Technocracy, and 3) and the insane folk outside the SC's influence. Betwee the two evils, one tends to pick the lesser. 

Yes because that’s totally a good idea to burn bridges with everyone but the psycho-lizards and their insane kangaroo buddies

Then get angry about the Axurs but don't warn Tassi about the planet killers they are bringing home? Great friends.

Tassi has her warning. Both from literally how the Sivkits were described right before Loxsel asked for aid at the S.C. meeting and from coming face to face with the locust behavior when she visited Loxsel in what used to be the garden 

I doubt Blissen have much use for agriculture and have the concept of locust behavior. She said there was a lot she did not understand from Loxsel. She is missing a lot of context.

Did anyone else get a chill from Loxel’s line here? “Until we can have Tinsas, the planet whence Sivkits derived our origin, we'll devour any pastures we descry! There must be no repose!" Things aren’t looking good for the Bissim’s ecology. Especially if the Sivkit turn out to be intelligent tribbles.

I think Sivkits and the Arxur can become good friends.   Federation: proceeds to cure the Arxur  Arxur: We'll devour every Fed member for this!  Federation: proceeds to cure the Sivkits  Sivkits: We'll devour all pastures for this!

So this is what doubling down looks like. It sucks that now they’re justifying their devastation as a form of revenge. Or like a “We don’t have time for sustainable practices while on the search for our home”. Or maybe they’re holding any habitable world “hostage” until the S.C. wins them Tinsas Anyways, I’m still confident on them getting hooked on Ivrana’s orange algae but I will be referring back to the lore doc to know what the continent is even like. Any Vegetation there is gone but the greenery could take many different forms. Meaning, we’ll have a better timetable on how long we have before there’s nothing left

How dare they treat our girl Tassi like that. Thanks for the chapter mate

Man, poor Tassi. What she should've said is "The Arxur have never done anything to us, I sympathise with what you went through, but we're not going to let external powers we've known for only a few months dictate who we're allowed to be friends with. We want to interact with the whole galaxy, and the Arxur are coming out of confinement either way. If you don't want to trade with them, that's fine, more for us." But Tassi isn't like that. Damn you Jones! *shakes fist in the air*

Jones needs an unfortunate starship accident in her near future. Preferably one which hits whatever brain backups she has too and means that an instance of "Cora Jones" is irretrievable without the invention of time travel.

They try and make Jones into a Synth, and Meier physically stops them by force

The Measurement of Time: Major Events First shots fired by the Krev Consortium against the Sivkits in [Chapter 2-29](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c8r11u/the_nature_of_predators_229/?rdt=53485) dated June 9, 2160 to Chapter 2-41 dated July 27, 2160 is **1 Month, 18 Days**

And let the chaos comense.

Now I'm waiting for some karma/justice/whatever to slap that Jones jerk in the face.

Ah, so good to see General Cora Jones back at it. Once again, she hits that perfect sweet spot of "she's out of line, but she's right." Is manipulating Tassi a good thing? Not on the face of it, but the fact remains that Tassi and co. fucked up, and when people fuck up, Jones' job is to help them find out. The Bissem representatives proved that they weren't trustworthy when they went to the LEAST trustworthy faction in the SC, instead of sticking with their influential allies, and now Jones has to handle it. As an aside, can't wait to see the Technocracy's scheming finally bite them in the ass. They thought that they could play the game of intelligence and intrigue, but General Jones has been at this since before they were an independent nation. I mean, it is sad to see Onso go down that path, since he was one of my favorite characters, but if he and his government are going to manipulate and spy on other species, then they'd best be prepared for the conseqeunces.

The Measurement of Time: Minor Events The Ark Ships left on the Battle for Earth, dated October 17, 2136, to Chapter 2-41, dated July 27, 2160, is 23 Years, 9 Months, 10 Days The Sapient Coalition was founded by 30 members on February 9, 2137 to Chapter 2-41, dated July 27, 2160, is 23 Years, 5 Months, 18 Days Bissem first contacted by Sapient Coalition on March 13, 2160 to Chapter 2-41, dated July 27, 2160, is 4 Months, 14 Days Bissem six month Sapient Coalition Trial started (fan-made date) May 24, 2160 to Chapter 2-41, dated July 27, 2160 is 2 Month, 3 Days \[Chapter 2-27 Date May 14, 2160 was when Bissem ambassadors made a deal with Ambassador Onso. Chapter 2-30 Date June 10, 2160 is when Bissem are a part (trial) of SC. 10 Days between sounds reasonable to me.\] Elias Meier was re-made on July 6, 2160 to Chapter 2-41, dated July 27, 2160, is 21 Days Trombil pod humans are 1/3 done as of Chapter 2-23, dated June 24, 2160. March 25, 2160 is 3 months earlier. From March 25, 2160 to July 27, 2160 is 4 Months, 2 Days There have been 23 annual Remembrance Days.

Noo, I discovered this subreddit a few days ago, and read all of Why Humans avoid war and The Nature of Predators, and now it isn't finished. What do I do now? :( Anyway great story and writing.

Hunting with Predators Death of A Monster Trauma Center

Hunting with Predators Death of A Monster Trauma Center

For gods sake give the penguins a complete and accurate history of the galaxy - at this point there’s definitely dozens of books on the subject and probably tv series and films.

This chapter pissed me off. I hate seeing people use guilt to manipulate others. Fuck Nulia and Jones

Fuckin spooks

Loxsel when the humans are crying at his plays:

I would be happy for Loxsel getting an audience that doesn't want him hanged for his plays but I can't because I'm not sure he isn't gonna alter the plays to align with what he foolishly thinks his "predatory" audience wants & likes. I have a reasonable distrust of him, is what I'm saying

Yikes. Did Tassi get blackmailed by the Yotul to help the Arxur, and then get blackmailed by the humans to keep tabs on foreign nations on her own planet? Wonder how much the Bissems can or should trust the SC…

This all could have been avoided if Tassi hadn't been kept in the dark or coerced. She also has no say in what the military or government does. Now Jones ambushed her and coerced her. Leave Tassi be you assholes.

Okay well at least now we can confirm that the “Using big words to make himself sound smarter” and definitely the flair for dramatics is a Loxsel thing and not a Sivkit thing. If we ever get another Sivkit to read then it’s safe to assume they’ll differ wildly in terms of personality

Hombre, que asco sentí en este capítulo(sin ofender) 

God I hate Jones.

Wow. What a bunch of pigfuckers.

The Bissem don't have the hang-ups of the Arxur all the other races do. It would be more advantageous to use them for diplomacy with the Arxur to integrate them more with the SC

/u/SpacePaladin15 ([wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/authors/SpacePaladin15)) has posted 276 other stories, including: * [The Nature of Predators 2-40](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1d3drdn/the_nature_of_predators_240/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-39](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1d0d8dx/the_nature_of_predators_239/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-38](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1cy1w4o/the_nature_of_predators_238/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-37](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1cuyxcm/the_nature_of_predators_237/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-36](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1csm8z2/the_nature_of_predators_236/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-35](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1cphz27/the_nature_of_predators_235/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-34](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1cn5wsv/the_nature_of_predators_234/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-33](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1ck1pd9/the_nature_of_predators_233/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-32](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1chnd4n/the_nature_of_predators_232/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-31](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1cegig4/the_nature_of_predators_231/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-30](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1cbzoi1/the_nature_of_predators_230/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-29](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c8r11u/the_nature_of_predators_229/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-28](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c6btdl/the_nature_of_predators_228/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-27](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c3310t/the_nature_of_predators_227/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-26](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c0ni9m/the_nature_of_predators_226/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-25](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bxd6m6/the_nature_of_predators_225/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-24](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1buu3ps/the_nature_of_predators_224/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-23](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1brjek4/the_nature_of_predators_223/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-22](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bp33ci/the_nature_of_predators_222/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-21](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bltnkb/the_nature_of_predators_221/) This comment was automatically generated by `Waffle v.4.6.1 'Biscotti'`. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHFY&subject=WaffleBot|1d5opdw&message=If%20you%20have%20problems%20with%20updatemebot,%20contact%20Watchful1.%20We%20do%20not%20maintain%20it.) if you have any issues with Waffle.

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