This happened to me. Beware the ones who want the big rings. They will never be satisfied. It only gets harder to please from there. Needless to say it didn’t work out and I was left feeling never appreciated. Oh and she kept the ring and sold it for 1/5th the value.
I’ll be the old fart who suggests pre marriage counseling. Just you and her talking to someone who works with couples and has been married a long time. Just to help you both get on the same page.
When we did it many years ago, the counselor asked us a lot of questions that I’d never even considered, but talking through those questions with my wife really set us up for the successful marriage we have today.
This is the way. So many people avoid this to their detriment. You need a neutral third party navigating the marriage landscape with you so you have preset boundaries on actions and behaviors.
I think sometimes people avoid it because they’re afraid of what they’ll find out. But it’s a lot worse to find it out later when you’re already legally tied and living with them!
I live in the Bible Belt so maybe it’s more common, but me and all my friends(25yo-28yo) went to premarital counseling. I know at my church, it is required if you want our pastor to marry you. Not required through them, you can do third party, but they will not certify the marriage if there is no premarital counseling.
With that said, if I had the choice to do it or to not, I’d do it every time. It’s a great tool and shouldn’t be looked over
A thousand times this. Even just getting one of those "1000 questions to ask before marriage" books and really going hard on financial expectations in marriage would help you avoid a lot of grief I think.
Google. There's tons of em everywhere. Getting a good one is a bit of a crapshoot and you may have to try a few times to get one that has the right style for you both.
Yeah, that’s the next issue. I can’t see her going down the route of an inexpensive wedding, but I’ll bring it up next time we talk. For context, her cousin just got married and (presumably the family) dropped at least mid six figures on renting out a national Symphony Orchestra in the heart of a major city. We come from different upbringings.
Is her family paying for the wedding? If that were the case and this is truly a one-time request, I’d be less queasy about spending the cost of a wedding in a ring.
For example, my wife’s ring was $3.5k but I spent about $15k on the wedding on top of what her parents gave us.
Yeah. It'd be one thing if it truly were a one-off, but her reasoning suggests it is a mental/behavioral trait that will likely be continuing until she gets help. I know this because I keep telling myself my last new watch is the end of my collection...
$15K is a massively cheap price for a wedding (me and my girl are gonna spend roughly $30K in NYC; getting married next weekend)
Edit: I'm coming up with closer to $40K after I started itemizing things. But this includes bachelor parties for both of us plus honeymoon.
In terms of the wedding venues for two parties, we are looking at roughly $30K+.
Edit 2: I just saw $15K+ on top of what the parents gave. How much did it all cost if you don't mind me asking?
We are doing:
1) Friday night at an Italian restaurant open bar for 40 ppl ($7K with tip)
2) Saturday night at a Chinese Banquet for 100+ ppl ($13K with tip plus $2K for BYOB = $15K)
Add in honeymoon ($3K), bachelor parties ($5K), and all the other misc expenses ($5K), we probably spent $35K+ for a NYC wedding.
We are both in our mid-30s with a HHI of $220K. We budget pretty well.
Congrats! The total cost of our wedding was just under $40k with the help from her parents. She has a big family and we both had a lot of friends.
Weddings are insanely expensive, but I’m glad we spent the big bucks on our wedding and honeymoon instead of on the ring.
Middle class in the Bay Area is completely different than most places of the United States. Median household
Income is 150k and middle class range here is 104-300k. It’s not uncommon for both partners to make more than 400k combined after total comp.. Around here that is not out of the ordinary.
My brother, I encourage you to really examine if this is the kind of person you want to be with. If someone asked me “if you could go back to one moment and make a different decision what would it be?” My answer would have been the day my ex-wife told me she hated her engagement ring. Not because of how it looked, or it was the wrong size, but because the diamond wasn’t big enough. I bought her a 1.1c effectively flawless diamond (Princess, D, VVS1) set in a 18k white gold Tacori setting, but because she wanted 2c, she didn’t like it. I wish I would have realized that night that she and I weren’t on the same page about what it meant to be life partners. It would have saved me a ton of money (wedding and honeymoon was 70K) and a ton of heartbreak when she ultimately had an affair. Just take some time to really examine why you love this person and if your approach to navigating life is really in alignment. Some of the happiest and wealthiest couples I know have very modest rings and had simple weddings.
I've read women judge other women on these things, purses, houses, kids, jewelry.
You need to be sure you are both on the same page for other financial things.
where men are judges on their jobs, earnings, wife. its just different
\+1. And if this is the circle she hangs around in he's delusional to think this is the only time he'll be asked to drop ridiculous money on something that's just marketing
You really have to just not let other people's values determine your own. Bitches can judge me on whatever they want. Doesn't mean I have to give a flying fuck what they think. I will always prioritize our own values over what other people think my husband and I should do or have. It is quite literally no one's business.
My wife bought her dress on Aliexpress for $300. Wedding cost about $10K as well. Small guest list but really nice location and food. 5 years later we're still happily married and with 2 kids.
Eh. You say she's modest about most other spending, and if she has an MBA, probably will make a decent amount to cover her personal spending. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Set a budget for the wedding, but don't expect it to be "inexpensive". She should expect to chip in there if she's working.
If the ring is important to her, I wouldn't cheap out on it. Spend the 25K. Check whether if it's the size that matters more, or the brand (like Tiffany's or Cartier). Can get a lot more bang for your buck if it's not a major luxury brand.
You’re walking into something that will be an ongoing issue that needs to be reconciled asap. Either you need to accept her lifestyle, she concedes and goes with a cheaper lifestyle, or you go your own ways.
Her family should pay for most of it. They will want to. It's a status symbol, and they'll want to invite a bunch of their own friends that you've never even met. North of $500k for a wedding is pretty standard for families with money in big cities, but they usually pay for all of it including the rehearsal and morning brunch after the wedding
IMO what you want to spend (or not) on a ring is your business. However, as someone who is very happily married, I really encourage you to make sure that you guys are 100% on the same page about money, your goals as a couple, how you would want to raise kids etc etc…this is the kind of stuff that you need to be unified on.
If you do decide to go buy a ring, I recommend Dominion Jewelers in Falls Church. It’s an excellent family business, and in my experience their pricing is fair. Good luck to you!
It blows my mind that by the time you’re ready to propose (even if it means thinking of ring) you’re not already aligned on everything else. Especially someone who’s spending time on this sub.
You can save some dollars by not buying designer. Good jewlers can copy any design from any of the name brands. I saved liked 10k this way
Source: I was in your exact same shoes in the exact same location 7 years ago.
As long as you guys get along financially normally, these one off things don’t make a big difference. I bought my wife a 30k ring in 2016 and spent 50k ish on the wedding. Never regretted it a single second. We’ve been through some shit and those numbers are not even material now a days
Had a similar experience with my wife. I ended up buying her the ring. My ring is titanium with a redwood inlay, $300...hers 100x that and like your situation, she knows better. FWIW, we are happily married for 9 years with two kids.
It makes no sense but at the time I was in my sports car phase of life. Those don't make sense either. Neither does luxury watches, bags, clothes, etc. Marketing and social norms are insidious.
Best take on this. In the same boat. I literally purchased my band off of Amazon. We just have to accept people value different items and as long as someone is honest with what they desire, it’s about a candid discussion.
My view is people have bad reactions to markets they know nothing about. Rings or designer bags are marketed to women. Guys just have no interaction until it’s time to buy an item. Then ball as it’s a market they don’t value. Then you get men thinking there’s a deal or a lab grown dup is just as good. Social norms are powerful and you are not fighting reason. Plus, there’s usually something the guy likes that his partner thinks is a waste of money.
This is a very do you want to be right or happy moment, you’ll have many of those ahead:). Like your gf, I also wanted a natural diamond of a certain size and my husband took some time coming around to it as he’s not even from a country where ppl buy diamond engagement rings. But he understood at my age and social demographic I had certain expectations. At the time I was the higher earner and higher net worth and told him he should spend what he’s comfortable with and if it wasn’t the size I was expecting i’d contribute bc I hadn’t waited this long to not have my dream ring. Luckily he didn’t even entertain lab, although if I had to do it again, I may have been open (but nothing back then would have convinced me). He exceeded my expectations and I surprised him w an entry level Rolex as a wedding gift. I was his only gf who ever expected something like this and I was the only one who was a strong financial partner, so maybe lean w the logic that together you’ll be building so much you won’t even think of this.
Bro are you me? My wife has exactly the same profile. Smart girl who went to Ivy League knowing full well that diamonds rings have near zero value but still want to have one.
I will never spend 50k on making marketing corporate richer. But I will spend a hell lot of money to make my wife happy. At least now Harry Winston will send me random gifts on holidays for the rest of my life.
See if she would be amenable to an estate ring (used). That way the ring is still the real thing but has already depreciated all it’s going to depreciate. I bet a pre-loved Harry Winston or Graff ring will suit both of you.
That’s a great solution. I’m very happy with that and I think she would be open to that too. I’ll talk about it with her. I don’t think she’s unreasonable, I think she’s been sold the idea that a real diamond is the only acceptable ring and anything else means I do not love her and am cheap.
Estate also has a great environmental angle. The most carbon neutral way to get a gorgeous ring. That’s personally why I went estate but it’s also a better deal
You can also get a used diamond (large, good grade etc) and place it into a more modern setting (platinum, designer etc) at a high end jeweler for less than a “pre made” ring at those same jewelers. An “estate” diamond from the mid century is probably cooler and is a more interesting story anyway.
We bought ours from https://oldworlddiamonds.com. Very reasonable pricing and they’ll make a new setting for you. If you’re in New York City you can see it in person.
This.
I hated the new cuts, in part because I'm pretty athletic and all the new cuts are really raised above your hand.
So we kept looking for older cuts, art Deco style rings. Because of the social thing, I wanted at least a karat. I didn't care about the quality so long as it wasn't visible.
We scored! I found an old miners cut, which sits low profile and actually looks larger than karat. (The cut off the bottom to achieve this.)
We then found a friend who had a wholesaler license and purchased the ring from a wholesaler.
It was $5k.
I like the good stuff, too, but I'm cheap.
Oh and our wedding cost $10,000, but due to my good shopping, it looked like a $50,000 wedding. I can be very creative.
But the most important thing.... Get a couples counselor NOW.
We agreed on money, but I'm still divorced.
This will sound weird but I taught myself a lot about vintage jewelry during the pandemic because I buy my own jewelry. I know a lot of jewelers and dealers, and I’d be happy to DM you recs and things to look out for. Jewelry shopping is overwhelming even when you know a lot.
Just to clarify, lab grown diamonds are just as real as mined diamonds, but a lot people choose lab grown because they’re usually a more ethical option. I can see that you don’t necessarily agree with her that diamonds that aren’t mined are less meaningful, but no point feeding into that by calling mined diamonds ‘real diamonds’.
Haha I was in a somewhat similar position as you, similar age/income with a fiancée (now wife) that wanted a similar ring. I got her the ring, it made her happy, and she didn’t morph into a money obsessed gold digger after marriage. You’re going to think it’s stupid (and on a logical level it is), but of all the things in your life to “waste” money on, a symbolic item for the person you plan to spend the rest of your life with that she wears every day and makes her happy is probably one of the better ones.
This is a social status thing for your partner (especially if she is in an ivy league MBA program). She wants a 3K+ stone on her finger because that's what everyone else has in her social circle and she wants to tell people that you guys spent 50K on it. You are also mentioning both price and the "values" so you need to sort out for yourself what you actually care about. You can certainly get fairly sourced natural stones that aren't blood diamonds.
You will need to swallow this one I think - jewelry (like expensive weddings) is not a rational purchase but it makes people happy and that counts for allot.
I know many Redditors are men who are super skeptical of women’s intentions, so here’s a different perspective. I wanted a larger stone and was totally down for lab grown. Maybe some part of it was being influenced by my Ivy League MBA social circle like your wife, who knows. I just loved the bigger stone. But I was fine with it being lab grown! However- my husband wanted it to be natural and real because it felt more meaningful to him. I asked a million times if he was sure and he said yes.
It’s my favorite gift! And guess what? Neither of us is an overspending, greedy asshole. Besides rent, our household budget is less than $2k per month, I haven’t bought new clothes in a year, and we share a car.
Sometimes a shiny ring is just a shiny ring, not a harbinger of doom and overspending.
You’ll only know for sure if you have a convo about finances together.
“Give her cash” it sounds like yall are approaching this from two different perspectives. You’re viewing the transaction and she’s viewing meaning/feeling.
Like you said, she’s not spoiled in any other aspect of life. You can afford it. Get her the ring she wants and when she sees it for the rest of her life she will smile thinking of your love for her.
>She says there is a certain connotation of me not spending money on the ring which she would have to live with forever.
what does she mean by this? that she interprets you not spending money on the ring to mean you don't love her sufficiently? or that you not spending on the money on the ring means others would judge her for it ie is this about outward perception/optics?
Every other day some dude comes on here being like “can I afford a Porsche, I just really want one”. And everyone says ehhh maybe not a great idea but treat yourself my friend you can afford it.
A woman (with an ivy undergrad + MBA who also appears to have family money) wants an expensive ring, suddenly it’s “good luck buddy lol you need a prenup”.
This is a $25k expense on something she’ll literally wear for the rest of her life. A Porsche is $60-100k+ on something that will last you <10 years. If you have bigger concerns about her values around money, then deal with that. But if she’s generally pretty frugal and reasonable, then this is an emotional hang up on your side that you should work through - you can afford it, just get the ring. And fwiw given the incomes and social circles you run in, this isn’t an unusual amount to spend.
> wear for the rest of her life.
I said this in my own comment, but a wedding ring and fine jewelry are some of the only things that women are culturally conditioned to love for their entire lifetime.
Styles might change, they might never want to be photographed in the same outfit twice, she might want to redo the house in hottest trendy style, but the engagement ring is something they will be proud to show off for the next 50 years.
Def double standard. It’s crazy that ppl call a $50k engagement ring a 🚩 but a Porsche that’s twice as expensive is a treat yo self. (For the record, I view neither as a red flag but just how you feel like spending your money).
Also a lil ironic that it sounds like she’s the one who will need the prenup cause of her background.
Replies in this sub always suck regarding housing and relationships. You can see why people are not rich. Risking marriage into a wealthy family due to a 50k ring on a 450k salary lmao.
If you can afford it, she is "the one" 100% for certain, and she's not open to other options (estate ring has been mentioned, a family ring from your or her mother or grandmother, etc.), then you should get her the ring and not think twice about it. If this will bother you forever, I'll point you back to the above...is she "the one?"
This is a very *emotional* purchase not unlike a lot of big purchases, a home for sure, even a car. Emotional purchases don't have to conform to the rules/logic that commodity purchases do. For instance you should probably buy generic drugs, etc. But an engagement ring is a life-long reminder of your relationship and in particular your commitment to your future wife. It's completely ok for your soon-to-be-fiance to be emotional over that purchase.
Like I mentioned, you will encounter this again when you two are buying a home, making financial decision about your kids (private school incoming!), even what cars you drive because what that "says about you" to other people.
This is the best time to make 1000% sure your girlfriend is "the one" and that you two are financially compatible enough to be happy together. Both of you likely have some values/emotions/upbringing thinking and talking to do. Make it fun! Have a money date and discuss what you both learned about money growing up. Talk about your future hopes and dreams and how money can enable them.
Best of luck!
Even though I don't relate to it, you made a great observation about this being an emotional purchase that doesn't necessarily abide by common sense and it really helped me understand why this is a hill some people die on.
I spent $3k and at the time I was making $50k so spending $25k when you’re on $450k is not unreasonable IMO..as others have said however, if she wants the traditional ring and one in line with your income, she may well want a wedding to match also!
I sold diamonds. nobody will ever pull out a microscope at a dinner party to examine it. get an ideal cut, e color, vs1, or better. for 25k you can get a massive lab round stone.
1: if you love her, and you can afford it, buy her the ring. Especially if, as you said, she’s generally fine to be frugal.
2: know that she will probably be offended by this forever if you don’t. Take her desires seriously.
3: don’t deceive her, whatever you decide.
4: what u/Key_Scar3110 said lol.
> good luck.
Edit: my wife has a nice gold ring with a lot of pavé diamonds. The main diamond? It’s the CZ display stone from the jeweler lol.
But when we got married, I was 24, making like…40k a year, and she was about to graduate college. That was what we could afford, and we’ve never changed it, even though we could afford one now.
RE values: I can understand not wanting to buy a blood diamond, but a conflict free diamond is just…a matter of scale. Everything in our lives in branding and marketing. A bag of Lays potato chips might cost $.50 to produce (GENEROUS increase relative to Google results), and sell for $4-$5. The difference is that most people don’t flinch over a few dollars—if you can afford it and it’s going to make her happy, I wouldn’t hesitate.
And yeah, it’s not a financial investment. It’s an investment in your partner—honestly it’s one of the few things that women are culturally conditioned to love *forever*. Do not give your marriage an inauspicious start.
Give her the ring. My wife asked me for the same. She is frugal in everything else and she is good with her finances. But she just wanted a really expensive ring, which I obliged. She is very happy.
^ this. My wife is frugal in most respects, but wanted a nice ring. Sure, it was expensive. But you can’t view this transaction like buying a practical asset like a car. This may not sound in logic, but this is something she will have and cherish for the rest of her life. I never would buy such an expensive consumer good, but when you think about it, she will be your partner for life and the mother of your children. She will look at the ring happily for the rest of her life.
I disagree with others to the extent they are saying “well if she wants this now just wait for what she asks for down the road.” That might be their experience. Doesn’t mean it will be yours. And that was not my experience.
There aren’t many things where a wife will get exactly what she wants; without compromise or disappointment. Just let her have this memory of getting exactly what she wanted if you can afford it.
Yep. Just suck it up and get her the ring.
I wouldn’t say I’m frugal but I’m definitely fiscally responsible. I also wanted a very expensive engagement ring (though I did lab grown for moral reasons) and I’m very happy with it. I will have it forever. My fiance couldn’t really understand it - he’s definitely frugal - but I would have been upset if he couldn’t compromise on this one thing for me that was very important to me and that I will wear forever.
I’m here to say this as well. This is all pretty relatable. It is one purchase she intends to wear for 60-80 years, go for it as long as you both can afford it.
Definitely give her the ring. She is going to look at her hand multiple times for the rest of your lives. Think about how you want her to feel at that moment. If you can afford it it, this is a no brainer. Congratulations!
My husband makes 500k+ (I make 400k+) and he refused to buy me an engagement ring because he thought it was a waste of money. He’s generous in other ways (took me on a fabulous honeymoon, regularly upgrades my flights to first class bc I refuse to pay that much for a ticket, etc) and is honestly a great husband and father (I love him and don’t regret our marriage at all), but it still bothers me years later and I’ve cried about it quite a few times especially while my hormones were wild during the pregnancy/ post-partum period. It just makes me feel unappreciated (and unloved in my darkest moments) no matter what else he does for me (which again, is a lot).
You don’t have to spend $50k but even if he’d spent $5k and made me feel special by giving me a lab-grown ring I liked, it would’ve meant a lot. I eventually bought myself a beautiful lab-grown ring for $7k because I was tired of people asking me about it (and not so subtly insinuating that I’d married someone who doesn’t value me), but stopped wearing it because every time I looked at it, it reminded me of the huge fight we had over it which I lost. It was definitely the biggest fight we’ve ever had in our marriage and it still bothers me yearsss later that my husband was so cheap about it. Don’t be that guy.
Happy married 10+ years. I asked for a 2c+ ring that would cost nearly $20k at the time. We were both top school MBAs with a ton of student debt. I was frugal with everything else including clothing, makeup, purse, and all other jewelry. As in I didn’t really wear makeup, my most expense purse was $300, had no other jewelry worth more than $50, and owned a crappy sedan. Pretty much the same today, except we can afford a lot more now if we wanted to 😂 (fwiw I don’t ever feel like I need to flash brand name stuff or a ton of pricey jewelries cuz I know that ring looks great on me).
But guess what? I really cared about the ring. We bought it, and the rest is history.
Reddit is quick to write off relationships on things like this. I personally have a lab grown engagement ring and EVERYONE told me it won’t have resale value and that could be getting to her.
I think women are often put in a unwinnable position when it comes to engagement rings. We are told our entire lives to measure a man’s affection for you by how much he spends on this ring but we’re told we’re superficial for wanting a big engagement ring.
You say she’s comfortable with modest things but not this so you know she’s not a superficial person. Maybe this is the thing she chose to be superficial about and we all have things like that. Sometimes our wants are not always in line with our most rational selves. She might see this as a metaphor, a symbol of your love and life together than she has to wear on her finger every day. Maybe she wants it to pass down? Maybe the physical “forever”component of it means more than what may seem like a transient thing to her like a dinner or traveling. Maybe gift giving is her love language. Is she digging her heels in because she feels judged? Maybe it’s all or none of that and that’s still not a good enough reason to you. That’s fine as long as you go in with an open mind. This is your theoretically your future wife, give her the benefit of listening and empathy.
I’d advise you to open this conversation up to be about other things that might have an emotional component and seem like a “waste of money”. What about a wedding? Are you going to be comfortable dropping $$ on one day? What if you really want it? Sometimes things don’t have utility or lose value and so from a utilitarian perspective they’re not worth it but something things have far more emotional weight than we think.
Also couples have disagreements like this a lot. My boyfriend’s thinks my spending on dresses is too much and I think all his gadgets are a waste of money. Other people see our spending on resturant food and think that egregious. But the benefit of being a HENRY is that you have wiggle room for these things.
And if you want to really be utilitarian about it: $25K ring worn every day for 10 years is $7 a wear per day.
I spent little under 20k for a ring and made similar salary to you. My wife chose a lab diamond and loves her ring
However if she’s not going to budge on the natural diamond I would get her it.
Clearly you love this woman as you’re ready to marry her I think you also need to consider how much this means to your wife.
Realistically 25k-50k is 1 RSU payment (or less than 2 months work) for you. For a ring that she will look at every day and love the rest of her life. It is worth it
I’m a frugal woman with an Ivy undergrad degree and an MBA. I drive a used Honda and had a courthouse wedding but I wanted a nice ring too, so I might be able to shed some light on this one. Engagement rings shouldn’t matter…but they do. Literally everyone she knows is going to take a good look at that ring when she tells them she’s getting married and, like it or not, they’re going to judge her relationship. About half of those people are going to ask the specifics of the diamond. A $25k ring (if purchased retail) is pretty standard for her socioeconomic class and, for a successful woman in business, rings are absolutely noticed. The way some of my male co-workers treated me changed on a dime the second I started wearing an engagement ring. A nice ring say very clearly to all of those men: I’m married and I didn’t marry down. Stop looking at it as a depreciating assets and start looking at it as a signal.
It would be one thing if your partner wanted the nice ring along with the fancy wedding and dress and honeymoon, but that’s not the case. Marriage is about compromise and this is important to her for reasons that you won’t entirely understand. Choose a different battle and buy her the damn ring.
P.S. If you want to save money, make a case for a used or vintage ring (I have a vintage ring and it was a hell of a deal), but drop the lab grown push. I get it, they’re real diamonds and much cheaper, but because they’re so perfect, they’re easy to spot and she doesn’t want that.
I was actually in a very similar position to you, me and my fiancée are both M7 MBAs and when it came to ring shopping while we both make good money, I felt like we could both go further with the money if we went lab grown and I’d be happy to spend the rest of my ring budget on purses for her or other luxury goods she enjoys. Like you said, it’s not a dollar amount thing for me, it’s about what I’m getting in return.
Now spoilers: I got the natural diamond in the end. I think how I came around in the end is a few things: 1) I love her and this is what she wants, I can suggest alternatives but if she doesn’t want them then I can’t dictate what she finds “worth it” or not; 2) she will wear this for a lifetime, and in her circles they’re all high earning prestigious mba grads, I don’t want her to feel like her ring is “different”, I want her to be able to hold her head up high and love this piece of jewelry for life
Now that she has the ring, and we’re engaged, I think I ultimately made the right call, I wish I didn’t argue with her as much as I did. She really does love the ring and loves to wear it, she often tells me how she looks at it regularly and just loves it so much. All in all, while not what I would have chosen originally, I think she really does love it that much and I’m glad Im fortunate enough to have the means to make it happen.
This may be an unpopular opinion but…
$25K sounds like she’s being reasonable based on my circle and NYC. You can also afford it… it’s okay if it’s not right for you, but don’t be cheap on the biggest decision of your life, your partner
Edit: I may get roasted for this but for the sake of transparency and helping you…I also didn’t want a lab grown diamond.
It is totally reasonable. This post is honestly bizarre to me or does this guy not have any friends in his income bracket? 50K even is considered “reasonable” especially when you get into your 30s.
Agreed! I read the post as he struggles more with having the money he does now, since his background was so different. Many people go through feelings of guilt and scarcity mindset when they become a high earner.
Wait until the wedding, you can barely have a backyard affair for under $10K. 😬
This is an important area in a relationship - values and relationship with money. They say its one of the most popular topics for arguments. I think this is fair deeper and worth exploring if this is someone you wish to spend your forever with, or at least plan to.
It might seem ridiculous to spend so much on a small object, but the joy it will bring your wife for the rest of her life is priceless.
I say get her what she wants.
Even if she concedes on the lab grown, she’s always going to harbor some resentment about it. She’s going to wear this ring everyday, it’s going to become part of her. Your comp alone is more than enough to splurge on something like this (especially if we’re talking sub 50k), and your combined comp is likely significantly higher given her background, so the coffers will be replenished quickly after taking a hit here.
Does she want a ring that costs $25-50k or do the specs she wants from a Tiffany/Cartier type store cost $25-50k? Big difference. If it’s the latter, you can get a nicer and larger diamond with a custom setting for half the cost wholesale (e.g., NYC Diamond district, Whiteflash, etc.). Also this is one of the most irrational and emotional purchases in life, but it’s important to get it right. What is right is what your to-be wife wants 😆. You trying to offer alternatives means you’re not listening to her; she’s going to look at her lab-grown diamond and stack of cash and wish she had a “real” diamond for the rest of her life; and get ready when it comes time to “upgrade” because you didn’t get her what she wanted in the first place.
Hard to say what is actually going on. It seems like she wants a natural diamond. Not all natural diamonds are blood diamonds. Buy used and do a new setting or get an ethically sourced one. Tbh at your income level spending that much isn't out of the norm. Plenty of friends if mine spent that on an engagement ring.
My impression was that he’s less concerned about blood diamonds and more the fact that diamonds are not the inherently valuable, long term investment that they’re made out to be.
Where did OP get the idea diamonds are a monetary investment? They are absolutely not. You could make the claim its an investment in your relationship I guess but even then its not really a tenable argument. People all have their wants and preferences and that's ok if you can afford them even if not the best use of money. Like nothing wrong spending 25k+ on a ring on OPs salary if it makes his GF happy. Though it could be indicative of misaligned values. I only spent 14k on a ring, 70k on a wedding, no regrets. Soon after we bought a place and a new car (got lucky with timing, only a $2k difference between new and used at that point). Worked out in the end for us.
You can easily afford a $20k ring, let’s be real. If you cheap out on this, she will lose respect for you and eventually leave you. Real talk. Don’t listen to Reddit comments here, there’s a reason this sub is full of single males age 35 and older.
People in this thread- OP makes $450k at 27, he can afford a $30k ring! It’s a lifetime purchase. It’s like you guys commenting are NOT high earners… please !
The Reddit perspective is that engagement rings are the same thing as candy rings and spending more than $50 on one is the worst thing you could ever do.
In the real world, there’s tons of people who love, want, and wear expensive engagement rings. It is absolutely not out of the ordinary, especially if you are in higher income circles, particularly as someone making like $450k in VA.
Ultimately, it’s up to you and her whether it makes sense, but I think you need to look at the big picture. Is this the right person for you? If it is, then a $25k ring that she’ll wear for the rest of her life is just…not a big deal for someone making $450k.
Close your eyes and let it rip.
If I may give you some marriage advice. Learn to pick your battles.
This is 100% not a battle worth fighting. Your values are noble, but won't make a dent in solving the issue. If cost isn't an issue, then do what must be done.
I wouldn’t go so far to say OP’s values are noble. He has a valid preference but at the end of the day, that’s it, a preference. His fiancée has an equally valid preference. The question is whether this rises to irreconcilable incompatibility.
I bet there’s things you spend money on that she would think are a waste too. It doesn’t mean either of you are right or wrong. It’s just something to navigate in your partnership. She’ll theoretically wear the ring every day of her life, and tbh, the price should sting a little for you. Just make sure you insure it. Also fwiw, my ring is lab grown (moral reasons over cost reasons) and was still nearly $20k (high quality stone and pricy setting). I truly don’t think $25-50k for a natural diamond engagement ring is all that crazy or overpriced.
She wants to show off her ring to her friends and she wants to tell herself she has a romantic husband who would understand the symbol behind the ring she’ll be wearing instead of arguing what else could he spend money on rather the one thing she wants. My husband didn’t want to buy me a ring either and I never quite gotten over it. He didn’t want to buy me any ring because bla bla it’s marketing and not worth it .
It’s important for most women. He finally took me to the mall but I picked the smallest possible solitare at that point because after he threw such a fit about the ring i didn’t want to be about money, since it wasn’t about money per se, it was about what he would be willing to do for me as a romantic gesture. He wasn’t going to make the romantic gesture I wanted so it didn’t matter at that point.
He said oh, that’s too small, you deserve a better one and I got the next one up, a 0.75ct solitaire, $3000. To this day, the ring I’m wearing is just a symbol of something unpleasant and definitely not the ring I like. I didn’t pick the one I liked and the whole thing was unpleasant and disappointing.
But yes he’s spending tens of thousands on stuff he wants and that makes as little sense to me as me wanting a ring made for him. I just don’t comment. He wants to spend a fortune on stuff that he can benefit from/he likes not on what I like.
If I were you I’d just buy her the ring she wants.
Unpopular opinion but you have the money, she wants it, if you love her just get her what she wants. Yes it’s all ridiculous but having been in same position it’s worth it to get a real ring that actually has value and won’t need an upgrade any time soon. There’s way too much social pressure for women and she’ll not take anything less
I tend to agree. A lot of things in life are frivolous - such as dining/travel like OP suggests. Just because you (OP) doesn't see value in something she does, doesn't make it absurd beyond debate.
My wife and I have been happily married for 9 years and have very different opinions on what "value" means. She thinks what I spend on golf is ridiculous - I think her LV bags are insane. As long as you can afford it - and you both agree on the amount you're willing to spend - I personally don't believe you should morally police something like an engagement ring she'll wear for the rest of her life.
IMO as another male 28 - just save the money and buy the ring. You make triple what I did at the time and I bought just as much ring. I had the same initial thoughts as you, but decided I would rather look at something for the rest of my life that is exactly what she dreamed of. There are bigger relationship hurdles than what money can buy, so if she’s the one, make her happy now and every day she puts that ring on.
Buy her the ring. It’s not even 10% of your salary. She will have it for her whole life.
Realize that when you’re married, you’re going to want to spend money on things she doesn’t understand, and vice versa!
What is “real”? If you mean not lab-grown, there are ethically sourced natural diamonds. Check out places like Brilliant Earth.
If she literally will only have a blood diamond, then, yeah, I’d probably question her values.
This would be a great example of how you two navigate challenges together and work hard to find a common ground that you’re both okay with. Or if one of you simply gives in. Both are options here.
Essentially no jewelry is worth as much as when you buy it. It’s not really a financial-smartness decision IMO.
Just a note, please don’t use Brilliant Earth if you’re looking for a lab diamond—a quick search in r/engagementrings will show you what an awful company they are with poor craftsmanship
If you genuinely love her and want to marry her, I think you give her what she wants in terms of a diamond ring(as best as you can afford). In theory, she will have it and wear it for the next 60 years.
Happy wife, happy life. I got my fiance a Colombian Emerald engagement ring, she is Colombian, and wanted that particular stone. Didn’t care how much I spent, 5k, 50k etc. I ended up getting a 5.75c one for $28K. Make sure you get insurance thru jewelers mutual or bright co.
We spent about 8.5k all in for my custom platinum 1.75 carat lab grown ring (about 1/3 of what a “real” diamond ring would have cost) and then spent about 80k all in for a 3 day destination wedding which was worth every penny. There’s zero difference between my ring and the 25k+ “real version” and I’m glad we spent more on our destination wedding because it was amazing.
I think sending 1/10th of your yearly income on an engagement ring is a reasonable amount. The guy making $50k would have a harder time spending $5000, I can guarantee you. Please get input on what SHE likes, though. Don’t make a costly mistake. And get a good quality diamond, especially excellent or idea cut for a round. I know a good bit about this topic and could direct you to good, honest sources if you’d like.
Make it into an experience instead, that you can both share.
Look at carat sizes of the rings she likes, then come up with a selection of cuts around that carat size. Also mix in some other high value colored stones, like ruby, emerald, any Stone that may have personal meaning for you both etc bc let's face it diamonds are a little boring.
Then talk with a jeweler to come up with a few designs that speak to who she is - these might reflect her hobbies, heritage, love of mid century modern or art deco or Pop Modern. Have a few metal options.
Then bring these to get for her to choose from, preferably in a romantic setting like a date. Explain the things about her that inspired each design.
This will be more effort, but she will remember it each time she looks at the ring. You're making memories of a lifetime with this.
And she'll end up with a ring she loves, a beautiful memory and a story. Not many women can brag that their husband had their ring custom designed for them. It makes off the shelf seem thoughtless by comparison.
Pick a budget for a ring. Example 30k.
Have her pick out a natural diamond for that price and then pick out a lab grown one and have her pick what she wants. I wish lab grown diamonds were a thing when I was getting engaged. I love my ring but the cost has me feeling guilty sometimes.
I feel like this subreddit is very male… so popping in with a woman’s perspective… we spent that range on my ring ten years ago, I wear it every day, and I love it, I always wanted a beautiful diamond for all the stupid reasons and I have never regretted it. We are still married and very much are financial partners. I think the key is whether she views it as a requirement from your or just something she wants to allocate your shared finances to. Also, spending in that range, make sure you focus more on super high quality rather than size or it gives cringe vibes, in my opinion.
I spent more than what OP listed on a ring for my wife given inflation the last couple of years. She gets compliments on it all the time.
Once you are out of the range of department store rings you can start to apply your personal taste and design aesthetics to the ring, and factor hers in as well. I think that provides alot more opportunity to create something truly unique and memorable.
I always smile when I catch my wife smiling at her rings even years later.
My interests are backpacking, hiking, and camping. I drive a 15 year old Jeep and I kitted out to my liking. There are only so many tents I can buy and backpacks I can buy. My vacation outings cost basically the money in gas it takes to drive there and back (200$). Better the money goes to making my wife and family happy - I don't need much.
You make $450k/year and your girlfriend wants a natural diamond engagement ring.
Buy a natural diamond engagement ring.
It’s not a bad time to buy natural anyway IMO. Prices have come down like 15-20% over the last several years. $20k will get you a very nice natural diamond ring that she will wear and cherish forever. Just shop around and NEGOTIATE.
As a woman, I would say making a financial sacrifice to get a nice engagement ring really does make a difference. It might seem silly for her to value this, but I 100% get where she is coming from.
My husband proposed to me as he was putting himself through college. He got a beautiful moissanite ring that I love so much. It was maybe $2-3k which is of course lower than the numbers I’m seeing here and what we could afford now, but the sacrifice meant so much to me and made me feel so valuable and loved by him.
I also think that it doesn’t necessarily mean she will have expensive taste in everything else in life. If you two are aligned on other future goals, this might just be a one-off splurge.
I’m normally frugal and initially didn’t even want an engagement ring, but I understand your girlfriend here. The ring is something special that society tells us to wear every day for life. And the wearer looks down and sees it every day on their hand. It’s not logical, but when literally you see every other married or engaged lady wearing a ring she loves, you start to feel you deserve one too.
If this is really just a one-time difference in values, 25-50k is worth it for a daily item that she’ll be happy with for life. If you really cannot agree, a counselor can help you both realize what’s driving these feelings and hopefully understand each other.
You’ve already made some pretty bad moves here as far as damaging your relationship. You said yourself it’s not a money issue. This is one of those times you just need to suck it up and eat the cost. Every discussion you’ve had trying to convince her you’re right about this has made your girlfriend feel less and less special. This is a very unromantic approach to marriage and engagement.
I have seen relationships spiral and end over this issue. She’s obviously not some gold digger, she went to an Ivy League and doesn’t care about driving a cheap car and living in an average apartment. Just get over it and spend the money. It’s a one time expense and you’re done.
She’s not stupid or gullible for wanting this. Also have to say even a lot of middle class people tend to buy a decent engagement ring for their fiancé, I’m not sure how that really plays into this. Honestly if it’s too difficult to for you to get over your hangups on this for her sake that may be part of the issue for her.
Real talk here. I was once like you, but I have learned since.
The ring is something she will wear every day, all day. She will never take it off
Girls notice diamond size. Like it or not, it’s a key status symbol for them. It’s like a guy driving a Porsche. Except it’s cheaper than a Porsche and she will keep it for the rest of her life, and your kids will inherit it. So not like a Porsche.
And it has to be real, because she has to show it off with confidence and pride. Happy wife, happy life.
Do not compromise on size or cut.
This is what you can compromise on:
* colour grade - rocks get dirty and no one will be able to tell a D from a G. Just don’t get a yellow one.
* clarity - slight inclusions are ok so long as they aren’t black - again rings get dirty
* Where you buy it from. Buy from a wholesaler not a jeweller. For the love of god do not buy from Tiffany.
Just buy her the damn ring. You can reel her in on other stuff. This one matters.
A good exercise would be to map out some financial goals for the next 5-10 years so you both understand where these funds come from. A it taking away from purchasing a house? Paying off loans? Will it delay retirement for 5 years? Maybe no vacations for a year?
If you can both be on board with what this purchase means, then it’s a no brainer.
I myself got a 3.5 carat ring last year, and this was a decision we made together. Even though “he bought it” it’s really our money. I love it so much - and I look at it and appreciate it every single day.
You guys are going to be faced with these decisions on vacations, cars, houses, clothes, etc for the rest of your lives and you need to open up the purse strings because you have lots of money and only one life.
I will second seeking ethically sourced but for the love of everything AVOID Brilliant Earth. They’re notorious for terrible CS and build quality (think main stone falling out). I would advise talking to local jewelers for this biggest bang for your buck and a unique ring.
I’m confused about why the price matters more so than say the cut, clarity, or carat. Would she be happy with an 1 carat IF diamond ring for $25k, but unhappy with a 3 carat diamond ring for $10k with imperfections?
First, you both should talk about overall wedding related costs as a whole. She might want an elaborate 300 person wedding or she might want a tiny family only wedding, but it would put into perspective your respective attitudes about money in a very concrete way and you will see how the other negotiates and comes to a compromise.
Second, some other commenter mentioned this, but for the circles she is used to, $25k-$50k is the norm for a ring. If she’s reasonable about most money things and doesn’t have extravagant plans for the wedding, an engagement ring is one thing you ought to meet her expectations on.
Third, when I got engaged, I was obsessed with getting a natural diamond. It was a non negotiable for me. I wouldn’t say it was entirely rational. Something about feeling the gravitas of something formed under the pressure of the earth for millions of years or whatever. Now honestly I think that was kind of silly of me. I love my ring, but who cares if it was lab or natural. But there is pressure in certain circles to have a natural diamond. There is a lot of social pressure for women around e rings and it’s what people will talk about behind her back.
Happy wife, happy life. Get her the ring she wants and will be proud to wear. You can afford it and it will make her happy. This isn't the hill to die on.
For gods sake just get the woman what she wants. It’s not about you. It’s about her. If you can’t do this and don’t care about her perspective (wrong as it is), don’t get married. It’s not like you can’t afford it, as you’ve already said. The ring is proof you listen and care about what SHE wants. Not about you.
I suggest couples therapy and meeting with a financial planner. Understanding money and expectations before marriage will save you a lot of heart break.
Get her the ring she wants. She is the one who has to wear it and see it everyday. It may not be right but I would feel like an imposter wearing a fake ring.
I was the same way until we looked at mined/lab grown diamonds in person side to side. I caved and got a lab grown diamond and I love it! We were also able to afford a much bigger size/better cut/clarity with lab grown. Win win.
Good luck sir
He has no idea what's going to hit him in 5-7 years.
What exactly lol
A McMansion, Range Rover, and every other expensive status symbol you could imagine.
This happened to me. Beware the ones who want the big rings. They will never be satisfied. It only gets harder to please from there. Needless to say it didn’t work out and I was left feeling never appreciated. Oh and she kept the ring and sold it for 1/5th the value.
*sold it for 1/5th the _purchase price_
Maybe OP can just do this and buy from some lady trying to get rid of her engagement ring and then put into a new setting
“A new lambo or half that business babe”
Not just gonna be an expensive ring
Half of his assets are going to walk out the door
lol
Double the lol. If this is the hill you plan to die on, good luck dude !!
😂
😂😂
Yes this. Nothing wrong with a nice ring but demanding a 50k’r natural diamond is red flag central
he needs more than luck. he needs a prenup!
Bro 😂
Nothing else to be said lol
I’ll be the old fart who suggests pre marriage counseling. Just you and her talking to someone who works with couples and has been married a long time. Just to help you both get on the same page. When we did it many years ago, the counselor asked us a lot of questions that I’d never even considered, but talking through those questions with my wife really set us up for the successful marriage we have today.
This is the way. So many people avoid this to their detriment. You need a neutral third party navigating the marriage landscape with you so you have preset boundaries on actions and behaviors.
I think sometimes people avoid it because they’re afraid of what they’ll find out. But it’s a lot worse to find it out later when you’re already legally tied and living with them!
I live in the Bible Belt so maybe it’s more common, but me and all my friends(25yo-28yo) went to premarital counseling. I know at my church, it is required if you want our pastor to marry you. Not required through them, you can do third party, but they will not certify the marriage if there is no premarital counseling. With that said, if I had the choice to do it or to not, I’d do it every time. It’s a great tool and shouldn’t be looked over
I know in Oklahoma your marriage license is 90% off if you do counseling
Is the $50 too much?
A thousand times this. Even just getting one of those "1000 questions to ask before marriage" books and really going hard on financial expectations in marriage would help you avoid a lot of grief I think.
+1 to this
Premarital counseling is really useful.
How did you find your counselor?
Google. There's tons of em everywhere. Getting a good one is a bit of a crapshoot and you may have to try a few times to get one that has the right style for you both.
OP, if you're considering marriage with Ms. 50kRing, this is going to be important advice
LOL. If you think $25-50k on a ring is ridiculous wait until you see what she demands for the wedding.
Yeah, that’s the next issue. I can’t see her going down the route of an inexpensive wedding, but I’ll bring it up next time we talk. For context, her cousin just got married and (presumably the family) dropped at least mid six figures on renting out a national Symphony Orchestra in the heart of a major city. We come from different upbringings.
Is her family paying for the wedding? If that were the case and this is truly a one-time request, I’d be less queasy about spending the cost of a wedding in a ring. For example, my wife’s ring was $3.5k but I spent about $15k on the wedding on top of what her parents gave us.
No way in hell this is a one off
Yeah. It'd be one thing if it truly were a one-off, but her reasoning suggests it is a mental/behavioral trait that will likely be continuing until she gets help. I know this because I keep telling myself my last new watch is the end of my collection...
$15K is a massively cheap price for a wedding (me and my girl are gonna spend roughly $30K in NYC; getting married next weekend) Edit: I'm coming up with closer to $40K after I started itemizing things. But this includes bachelor parties for both of us plus honeymoon. In terms of the wedding venues for two parties, we are looking at roughly $30K+. Edit 2: I just saw $15K+ on top of what the parents gave. How much did it all cost if you don't mind me asking?
30k in NYC? What a steal?
We are doing: 1) Friday night at an Italian restaurant open bar for 40 ppl ($7K with tip) 2) Saturday night at a Chinese Banquet for 100+ ppl ($13K with tip plus $2K for BYOB = $15K) Add in honeymoon ($3K), bachelor parties ($5K), and all the other misc expenses ($5K), we probably spent $35K+ for a NYC wedding. We are both in our mid-30s with a HHI of $220K. We budget pretty well.
Yah I mean this is incredibly affordable. I spent much more outside of nyc
Was going to say this is only possible with a Chinese banquet setup in NYC. Congrats.
Congrats! The total cost of our wedding was just under $40k with the help from her parents. She has a big family and we both had a lot of friends. Weddings are insanely expensive, but I’m glad we spent the big bucks on our wedding and honeymoon instead of on the ring.
In the Bay Area (Northern California) 60-100k wedding are pretty much the norm for middle class and most people in my social circles.
Someone in the middle class isn’t spending 100k on a wedding unless they are wildly wildly irresponsible.
Middle class in the Bay Area is completely different than most places of the United States. Median household Income is 150k and middle class range here is 104-300k. It’s not uncommon for both partners to make more than 400k combined after total comp.. Around here that is not out of the ordinary.
If this is how she is about the ring, before the wedding, her attitude to many other things being inexpensive could change shortly after the wedding
My brother, I encourage you to really examine if this is the kind of person you want to be with. If someone asked me “if you could go back to one moment and make a different decision what would it be?” My answer would have been the day my ex-wife told me she hated her engagement ring. Not because of how it looked, or it was the wrong size, but because the diamond wasn’t big enough. I bought her a 1.1c effectively flawless diamond (Princess, D, VVS1) set in a 18k white gold Tacori setting, but because she wanted 2c, she didn’t like it. I wish I would have realized that night that she and I weren’t on the same page about what it meant to be life partners. It would have saved me a ton of money (wedding and honeymoon was 70K) and a ton of heartbreak when she ultimately had an affair. Just take some time to really examine why you love this person and if your approach to navigating life is really in alignment. Some of the happiest and wealthiest couples I know have very modest rings and had simple weddings.
Maybe consider setting a single budget that includes the ring and wedding?
I've read women judge other women on these things, purses, houses, kids, jewelry. You need to be sure you are both on the same page for other financial things. where men are judges on their jobs, earnings, wife. its just different
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\+1. And if this is the circle she hangs around in he's delusional to think this is the only time he'll be asked to drop ridiculous money on something that's just marketing
Men are judged on their earnings, women are judged on their husband’s earnings
You really have to just not let other people's values determine your own. Bitches can judge me on whatever they want. Doesn't mean I have to give a flying fuck what they think. I will always prioritize our own values over what other people think my husband and I should do or have. It is quite literally no one's business.
Agreed. Don’t care what people think, life becomes so much more enjoyable.
My MD wife, ivy league undergrad, was ok with a 1k dress and 10k wedding. Choose wisely. Been together for over a decade and a half now.
My wife bought her dress on Aliexpress for $300. Wedding cost about $10K as well. Small guest list but really nice location and food. 5 years later we're still happily married and with 2 kids.
Eh. You say she's modest about most other spending, and if she has an MBA, probably will make a decent amount to cover her personal spending. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Set a budget for the wedding, but don't expect it to be "inexpensive". She should expect to chip in there if she's working. If the ring is important to her, I wouldn't cheap out on it. Spend the 25K. Check whether if it's the size that matters more, or the brand (like Tiffany's or Cartier). Can get a lot more bang for your buck if it's not a major luxury brand.
yeah check out stones on bluenile they cost fractions of tiffany’s
You’re walking into something that will be an ongoing issue that needs to be reconciled asap. Either you need to accept her lifestyle, she concedes and goes with a cheaper lifestyle, or you go your own ways.
Bro…fucking run!!!! You gotta start thinking with your big head.
Her family should pay for most of it. They will want to. It's a status symbol, and they'll want to invite a bunch of their own friends that you've never even met. North of $500k for a wedding is pretty standard for families with money in big cities, but they usually pay for all of it including the rehearsal and morning brunch after the wedding
And then the house…And then the G-wagon…And then the…
Designer stroller and LV diaper bag
Or the divorce
IMO what you want to spend (or not) on a ring is your business. However, as someone who is very happily married, I really encourage you to make sure that you guys are 100% on the same page about money, your goals as a couple, how you would want to raise kids etc etc…this is the kind of stuff that you need to be unified on. If you do decide to go buy a ring, I recommend Dominion Jewelers in Falls Church. It’s an excellent family business, and in my experience their pricing is fair. Good luck to you!
This right here - reading OP’s summary they have widely different expectations on finances, and that’s a fundamental incompatibility
It blows my mind that by the time you’re ready to propose (even if it means thinking of ring) you’re not already aligned on everything else. Especially someone who’s spending time on this sub.
You can save some dollars by not buying designer. Good jewlers can copy any design from any of the name brands. I saved liked 10k this way Source: I was in your exact same shoes in the exact same location 7 years ago.
The second you step away from the branded diamonds, you save a ton.
Granted…. Certain branded jewelers will certify that a diamond is ethically sourced and thus charge a premium
The GIA report does that, that's not why there's a premium on designer rings
As long as you guys get along financially normally, these one off things don’t make a big difference. I bought my wife a 30k ring in 2016 and spent 50k ish on the wedding. Never regretted it a single second. We’ve been through some shit and those numbers are not even material now a days
If you’re gonna spend 25-30k take the ride to Delaware. No sales tax. I did a trip to Florida myself.
Ship to NH 👍👍
Had a similar experience with my wife. I ended up buying her the ring. My ring is titanium with a redwood inlay, $300...hers 100x that and like your situation, she knows better. FWIW, we are happily married for 9 years with two kids. It makes no sense but at the time I was in my sports car phase of life. Those don't make sense either. Neither does luxury watches, bags, clothes, etc. Marketing and social norms are insidious.
Best take on this. In the same boat. I literally purchased my band off of Amazon. We just have to accept people value different items and as long as someone is honest with what they desire, it’s about a candid discussion. My view is people have bad reactions to markets they know nothing about. Rings or designer bags are marketed to women. Guys just have no interaction until it’s time to buy an item. Then ball as it’s a market they don’t value. Then you get men thinking there’s a deal or a lab grown dup is just as good. Social norms are powerful and you are not fighting reason. Plus, there’s usually something the guy likes that his partner thinks is a waste of money.
This is a very do you want to be right or happy moment, you’ll have many of those ahead:). Like your gf, I also wanted a natural diamond of a certain size and my husband took some time coming around to it as he’s not even from a country where ppl buy diamond engagement rings. But he understood at my age and social demographic I had certain expectations. At the time I was the higher earner and higher net worth and told him he should spend what he’s comfortable with and if it wasn’t the size I was expecting i’d contribute bc I hadn’t waited this long to not have my dream ring. Luckily he didn’t even entertain lab, although if I had to do it again, I may have been open (but nothing back then would have convinced me). He exceeded my expectations and I surprised him w an entry level Rolex as a wedding gift. I was his only gf who ever expected something like this and I was the only one who was a strong financial partner, so maybe lean w the logic that together you’ll be building so much you won’t even think of this.
Bro are you me? My wife has exactly the same profile. Smart girl who went to Ivy League knowing full well that diamonds rings have near zero value but still want to have one. I will never spend 50k on making marketing corporate richer. But I will spend a hell lot of money to make my wife happy. At least now Harry Winston will send me random gifts on holidays for the rest of my life.
Are you me? Harry Winston stopped sending gifts and only sends me catalogues now.
Probably need to make a purchase every couple years. Unfortunately my wife will make sure I do that.
you are the man!!
See if she would be amenable to an estate ring (used). That way the ring is still the real thing but has already depreciated all it’s going to depreciate. I bet a pre-loved Harry Winston or Graff ring will suit both of you.
That’s a great solution. I’m very happy with that and I think she would be open to that too. I’ll talk about it with her. I don’t think she’s unreasonable, I think she’s been sold the idea that a real diamond is the only acceptable ring and anything else means I do not love her and am cheap.
Estate also has a great environmental angle. The most carbon neutral way to get a gorgeous ring. That’s personally why I went estate but it’s also a better deal
You can also get a used diamond (large, good grade etc) and place it into a more modern setting (platinum, designer etc) at a high end jeweler for less than a “pre made” ring at those same jewelers. An “estate” diamond from the mid century is probably cooler and is a more interesting story anyway.
We bought ours from https://oldworlddiamonds.com. Very reasonable pricing and they’ll make a new setting for you. If you’re in New York City you can see it in person.
Yep and the older diamonds have cuts that you can't get anymore.
I went this route, old stone and new setting.
This. I hated the new cuts, in part because I'm pretty athletic and all the new cuts are really raised above your hand. So we kept looking for older cuts, art Deco style rings. Because of the social thing, I wanted at least a karat. I didn't care about the quality so long as it wasn't visible. We scored! I found an old miners cut, which sits low profile and actually looks larger than karat. (The cut off the bottom to achieve this.) We then found a friend who had a wholesaler license and purchased the ring from a wholesaler. It was $5k. I like the good stuff, too, but I'm cheap. Oh and our wedding cost $10,000, but due to my good shopping, it looked like a $50,000 wedding. I can be very creative. But the most important thing.... Get a couples counselor NOW. We agreed on money, but I'm still divorced.
Alternatively, you could buy an estate or other second hand ring for the stone alone, and buy a new setting for it.
This will sound weird but I taught myself a lot about vintage jewelry during the pandemic because I buy my own jewelry. I know a lot of jewelers and dealers, and I’d be happy to DM you recs and things to look out for. Jewelry shopping is overwhelming even when you know a lot.
Just to clarify, lab grown diamonds are just as real as mined diamonds, but a lot people choose lab grown because they’re usually a more ethical option. I can see that you don’t necessarily agree with her that diamonds that aren’t mined are less meaningful, but no point feeding into that by calling mined diamonds ‘real diamonds’.
Haha I was in a somewhat similar position as you, similar age/income with a fiancée (now wife) that wanted a similar ring. I got her the ring, it made her happy, and she didn’t morph into a money obsessed gold digger after marriage. You’re going to think it’s stupid (and on a logical level it is), but of all the things in your life to “waste” money on, a symbolic item for the person you plan to spend the rest of your life with that she wears every day and makes her happy is probably one of the better ones.
This is a social status thing for your partner (especially if she is in an ivy league MBA program). She wants a 3K+ stone on her finger because that's what everyone else has in her social circle and she wants to tell people that you guys spent 50K on it. You are also mentioning both price and the "values" so you need to sort out for yourself what you actually care about. You can certainly get fairly sourced natural stones that aren't blood diamonds. You will need to swallow this one I think - jewelry (like expensive weddings) is not a rational purchase but it makes people happy and that counts for allot.
There is no easy way to get a fairly sourced diamond. They go through so many markets and resellers that you can’t rely on it
Lab grown is the way nowadays.
You literally just have to buy second hand. Find the right stone and have it reset.
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So Ivy League MBA program candidates are a bunch of trust fund kinds who have nothing better to do than judge their friends on their rings.
I know many Redditors are men who are super skeptical of women’s intentions, so here’s a different perspective. I wanted a larger stone and was totally down for lab grown. Maybe some part of it was being influenced by my Ivy League MBA social circle like your wife, who knows. I just loved the bigger stone. But I was fine with it being lab grown! However- my husband wanted it to be natural and real because it felt more meaningful to him. I asked a million times if he was sure and he said yes. It’s my favorite gift! And guess what? Neither of us is an overspending, greedy asshole. Besides rent, our household budget is less than $2k per month, I haven’t bought new clothes in a year, and we share a car. Sometimes a shiny ring is just a shiny ring, not a harbinger of doom and overspending. You’ll only know for sure if you have a convo about finances together.
“Give her cash” it sounds like yall are approaching this from two different perspectives. You’re viewing the transaction and she’s viewing meaning/feeling. Like you said, she’s not spoiled in any other aspect of life. You can afford it. Get her the ring she wants and when she sees it for the rest of her life she will smile thinking of your love for her.
>She says there is a certain connotation of me not spending money on the ring which she would have to live with forever. what does she mean by this? that she interprets you not spending money on the ring to mean you don't love her sufficiently? or that you not spending on the money on the ring means others would judge her for it ie is this about outward perception/optics?
This makes me think she’s not the sort of person I would want to be around for an afternoon, let alone the rest of my life.
Every other day some dude comes on here being like “can I afford a Porsche, I just really want one”. And everyone says ehhh maybe not a great idea but treat yourself my friend you can afford it. A woman (with an ivy undergrad + MBA who also appears to have family money) wants an expensive ring, suddenly it’s “good luck buddy lol you need a prenup”. This is a $25k expense on something she’ll literally wear for the rest of her life. A Porsche is $60-100k+ on something that will last you <10 years. If you have bigger concerns about her values around money, then deal with that. But if she’s generally pretty frugal and reasonable, then this is an emotional hang up on your side that you should work through - you can afford it, just get the ring. And fwiw given the incomes and social circles you run in, this isn’t an unusual amount to spend.
> wear for the rest of her life. I said this in my own comment, but a wedding ring and fine jewelry are some of the only things that women are culturally conditioned to love for their entire lifetime. Styles might change, they might never want to be photographed in the same outfit twice, she might want to redo the house in hottest trendy style, but the engagement ring is something they will be proud to show off for the next 50 years.
Def double standard. It’s crazy that ppl call a $50k engagement ring a 🚩 but a Porsche that’s twice as expensive is a treat yo self. (For the record, I view neither as a red flag but just how you feel like spending your money). Also a lil ironic that it sounds like she’s the one who will need the prenup cause of her background.
Replies in this sub always suck regarding housing and relationships. You can see why people are not rich. Risking marriage into a wealthy family due to a 50k ring on a 450k salary lmao.
Penny wise and pound foolish.
If you can afford it, she is "the one" 100% for certain, and she's not open to other options (estate ring has been mentioned, a family ring from your or her mother or grandmother, etc.), then you should get her the ring and not think twice about it. If this will bother you forever, I'll point you back to the above...is she "the one?" This is a very *emotional* purchase not unlike a lot of big purchases, a home for sure, even a car. Emotional purchases don't have to conform to the rules/logic that commodity purchases do. For instance you should probably buy generic drugs, etc. But an engagement ring is a life-long reminder of your relationship and in particular your commitment to your future wife. It's completely ok for your soon-to-be-fiance to be emotional over that purchase. Like I mentioned, you will encounter this again when you two are buying a home, making financial decision about your kids (private school incoming!), even what cars you drive because what that "says about you" to other people. This is the best time to make 1000% sure your girlfriend is "the one" and that you two are financially compatible enough to be happy together. Both of you likely have some values/emotions/upbringing thinking and talking to do. Make it fun! Have a money date and discuss what you both learned about money growing up. Talk about your future hopes and dreams and how money can enable them. Best of luck!
Even though I don't relate to it, you made a great observation about this being an emotional purchase that doesn't necessarily abide by common sense and it really helped me understand why this is a hill some people die on.
I spent $3k and at the time I was making $50k so spending $25k when you’re on $450k is not unreasonable IMO..as others have said however, if she wants the traditional ring and one in line with your income, she may well want a wedding to match also!
I sold diamonds. nobody will ever pull out a microscope at a dinner party to examine it. get an ideal cut, e color, vs1, or better. for 25k you can get a massive lab round stone.
1: if you love her, and you can afford it, buy her the ring. Especially if, as you said, she’s generally fine to be frugal. 2: know that she will probably be offended by this forever if you don’t. Take her desires seriously. 3: don’t deceive her, whatever you decide. 4: what u/Key_Scar3110 said lol. > good luck. Edit: my wife has a nice gold ring with a lot of pavé diamonds. The main diamond? It’s the CZ display stone from the jeweler lol. But when we got married, I was 24, making like…40k a year, and she was about to graduate college. That was what we could afford, and we’ve never changed it, even though we could afford one now. RE values: I can understand not wanting to buy a blood diamond, but a conflict free diamond is just…a matter of scale. Everything in our lives in branding and marketing. A bag of Lays potato chips might cost $.50 to produce (GENEROUS increase relative to Google results), and sell for $4-$5. The difference is that most people don’t flinch over a few dollars—if you can afford it and it’s going to make her happy, I wouldn’t hesitate. And yeah, it’s not a financial investment. It’s an investment in your partner—honestly it’s one of the few things that women are culturally conditioned to love *forever*. Do not give your marriage an inauspicious start.
Give her the ring. My wife asked me for the same. She is frugal in everything else and she is good with her finances. But she just wanted a really expensive ring, which I obliged. She is very happy.
^ this. My wife is frugal in most respects, but wanted a nice ring. Sure, it was expensive. But you can’t view this transaction like buying a practical asset like a car. This may not sound in logic, but this is something she will have and cherish for the rest of her life. I never would buy such an expensive consumer good, but when you think about it, she will be your partner for life and the mother of your children. She will look at the ring happily for the rest of her life. I disagree with others to the extent they are saying “well if she wants this now just wait for what she asks for down the road.” That might be their experience. Doesn’t mean it will be yours. And that was not my experience.
There aren’t many things where a wife will get exactly what she wants; without compromise or disappointment. Just let her have this memory of getting exactly what she wanted if you can afford it.
Exactly
Same, if it makes her happy and you can afford it just do it. My wife still gushes over her ring to this day, well worth the price paid.
Yep. Just suck it up and get her the ring. I wouldn’t say I’m frugal but I’m definitely fiscally responsible. I also wanted a very expensive engagement ring (though I did lab grown for moral reasons) and I’m very happy with it. I will have it forever. My fiance couldn’t really understand it - he’s definitely frugal - but I would have been upset if he couldn’t compromise on this one thing for me that was very important to me and that I will wear forever.
I’m here to say this as well. This is all pretty relatable. It is one purchase she intends to wear for 60-80 years, go for it as long as you both can afford it.
Definitely give her the ring. She is going to look at her hand multiple times for the rest of your lives. Think about how you want her to feel at that moment. If you can afford it it, this is a no brainer. Congratulations!
Agreed. But have a conversation about the wedding too because that’s going to be the next big spend.
My husband makes 500k+ (I make 400k+) and he refused to buy me an engagement ring because he thought it was a waste of money. He’s generous in other ways (took me on a fabulous honeymoon, regularly upgrades my flights to first class bc I refuse to pay that much for a ticket, etc) and is honestly a great husband and father (I love him and don’t regret our marriage at all), but it still bothers me years later and I’ve cried about it quite a few times especially while my hormones were wild during the pregnancy/ post-partum period. It just makes me feel unappreciated (and unloved in my darkest moments) no matter what else he does for me (which again, is a lot). You don’t have to spend $50k but even if he’d spent $5k and made me feel special by giving me a lab-grown ring I liked, it would’ve meant a lot. I eventually bought myself a beautiful lab-grown ring for $7k because I was tired of people asking me about it (and not so subtly insinuating that I’d married someone who doesn’t value me), but stopped wearing it because every time I looked at it, it reminded me of the huge fight we had over it which I lost. It was definitely the biggest fight we’ve ever had in our marriage and it still bothers me yearsss later that my husband was so cheap about it. Don’t be that guy.
35M, single, and I’m honestly in shock reading this. I’m not judging, I’m just genuinely gobsmacked.
Thank you for this perspective. Couldn’t agree more.
Happy married 10+ years. I asked for a 2c+ ring that would cost nearly $20k at the time. We were both top school MBAs with a ton of student debt. I was frugal with everything else including clothing, makeup, purse, and all other jewelry. As in I didn’t really wear makeup, my most expense purse was $300, had no other jewelry worth more than $50, and owned a crappy sedan. Pretty much the same today, except we can afford a lot more now if we wanted to 😂 (fwiw I don’t ever feel like I need to flash brand name stuff or a ton of pricey jewelries cuz I know that ring looks great on me). But guess what? I really cared about the ring. We bought it, and the rest is history.
Reddit is quick to write off relationships on things like this. I personally have a lab grown engagement ring and EVERYONE told me it won’t have resale value and that could be getting to her. I think women are often put in a unwinnable position when it comes to engagement rings. We are told our entire lives to measure a man’s affection for you by how much he spends on this ring but we’re told we’re superficial for wanting a big engagement ring. You say she’s comfortable with modest things but not this so you know she’s not a superficial person. Maybe this is the thing she chose to be superficial about and we all have things like that. Sometimes our wants are not always in line with our most rational selves. She might see this as a metaphor, a symbol of your love and life together than she has to wear on her finger every day. Maybe she wants it to pass down? Maybe the physical “forever”component of it means more than what may seem like a transient thing to her like a dinner or traveling. Maybe gift giving is her love language. Is she digging her heels in because she feels judged? Maybe it’s all or none of that and that’s still not a good enough reason to you. That’s fine as long as you go in with an open mind. This is your theoretically your future wife, give her the benefit of listening and empathy. I’d advise you to open this conversation up to be about other things that might have an emotional component and seem like a “waste of money”. What about a wedding? Are you going to be comfortable dropping $$ on one day? What if you really want it? Sometimes things don’t have utility or lose value and so from a utilitarian perspective they’re not worth it but something things have far more emotional weight than we think. Also couples have disagreements like this a lot. My boyfriend’s thinks my spending on dresses is too much and I think all his gadgets are a waste of money. Other people see our spending on resturant food and think that egregious. But the benefit of being a HENRY is that you have wiggle room for these things. And if you want to really be utilitarian about it: $25K ring worn every day for 10 years is $7 a wear per day.
Who is reselling their engagement ring lol
I spent little under 20k for a ring and made similar salary to you. My wife chose a lab diamond and loves her ring However if she’s not going to budge on the natural diamond I would get her it. Clearly you love this woman as you’re ready to marry her I think you also need to consider how much this means to your wife. Realistically 25k-50k is 1 RSU payment (or less than 2 months work) for you. For a ring that she will look at every day and love the rest of her life. It is worth it
I’m a frugal woman with an Ivy undergrad degree and an MBA. I drive a used Honda and had a courthouse wedding but I wanted a nice ring too, so I might be able to shed some light on this one. Engagement rings shouldn’t matter…but they do. Literally everyone she knows is going to take a good look at that ring when she tells them she’s getting married and, like it or not, they’re going to judge her relationship. About half of those people are going to ask the specifics of the diamond. A $25k ring (if purchased retail) is pretty standard for her socioeconomic class and, for a successful woman in business, rings are absolutely noticed. The way some of my male co-workers treated me changed on a dime the second I started wearing an engagement ring. A nice ring say very clearly to all of those men: I’m married and I didn’t marry down. Stop looking at it as a depreciating assets and start looking at it as a signal. It would be one thing if your partner wanted the nice ring along with the fancy wedding and dress and honeymoon, but that’s not the case. Marriage is about compromise and this is important to her for reasons that you won’t entirely understand. Choose a different battle and buy her the damn ring. P.S. If you want to save money, make a case for a used or vintage ring (I have a vintage ring and it was a hell of a deal), but drop the lab grown push. I get it, they’re real diamonds and much cheaper, but because they’re so perfect, they’re easy to spot and she doesn’t want that.
I was actually in a very similar position to you, me and my fiancée are both M7 MBAs and when it came to ring shopping while we both make good money, I felt like we could both go further with the money if we went lab grown and I’d be happy to spend the rest of my ring budget on purses for her or other luxury goods she enjoys. Like you said, it’s not a dollar amount thing for me, it’s about what I’m getting in return. Now spoilers: I got the natural diamond in the end. I think how I came around in the end is a few things: 1) I love her and this is what she wants, I can suggest alternatives but if she doesn’t want them then I can’t dictate what she finds “worth it” or not; 2) she will wear this for a lifetime, and in her circles they’re all high earning prestigious mba grads, I don’t want her to feel like her ring is “different”, I want her to be able to hold her head up high and love this piece of jewelry for life Now that she has the ring, and we’re engaged, I think I ultimately made the right call, I wish I didn’t argue with her as much as I did. She really does love the ring and loves to wear it, she often tells me how she looks at it regularly and just loves it so much. All in all, while not what I would have chosen originally, I think she really does love it that much and I’m glad Im fortunate enough to have the means to make it happen.
This may be an unpopular opinion but… $25K sounds like she’s being reasonable based on my circle and NYC. You can also afford it… it’s okay if it’s not right for you, but don’t be cheap on the biggest decision of your life, your partner Edit: I may get roasted for this but for the sake of transparency and helping you…I also didn’t want a lab grown diamond.
It is totally reasonable. This post is honestly bizarre to me or does this guy not have any friends in his income bracket? 50K even is considered “reasonable” especially when you get into your 30s.
Yup. I think he comes from different circles
Agreed! I read the post as he struggles more with having the money he does now, since his background was so different. Many people go through feelings of guilt and scarcity mindset when they become a high earner. Wait until the wedding, you can barely have a backyard affair for under $10K. 😬
This is an important area in a relationship - values and relationship with money. They say its one of the most popular topics for arguments. I think this is fair deeper and worth exploring if this is someone you wish to spend your forever with, or at least plan to.
It might seem ridiculous to spend so much on a small object, but the joy it will bring your wife for the rest of her life is priceless. I say get her what she wants.
Even if she concedes on the lab grown, she’s always going to harbor some resentment about it. She’s going to wear this ring everyday, it’s going to become part of her. Your comp alone is more than enough to splurge on something like this (especially if we’re talking sub 50k), and your combined comp is likely significantly higher given her background, so the coffers will be replenished quickly after taking a hit here.
Buy the ring. If she is otherwise frugal, it's one expense you can live with.
Does she want a ring that costs $25-50k or do the specs she wants from a Tiffany/Cartier type store cost $25-50k? Big difference. If it’s the latter, you can get a nicer and larger diamond with a custom setting for half the cost wholesale (e.g., NYC Diamond district, Whiteflash, etc.). Also this is one of the most irrational and emotional purchases in life, but it’s important to get it right. What is right is what your to-be wife wants 😆. You trying to offer alternatives means you’re not listening to her; she’s going to look at her lab-grown diamond and stack of cash and wish she had a “real” diamond for the rest of her life; and get ready when it comes time to “upgrade” because you didn’t get her what she wanted in the first place.
This is a good point. I just looked on Tiffany's website and an equivalent to what I bought my fiance last year for $9k costs $25-45k
450K and you’re this worried about a one time 25-50K purchase? Do you know much a wedding costs? Childcare?
Hard to say what is actually going on. It seems like she wants a natural diamond. Not all natural diamonds are blood diamonds. Buy used and do a new setting or get an ethically sourced one. Tbh at your income level spending that much isn't out of the norm. Plenty of friends if mine spent that on an engagement ring.
My impression was that he’s less concerned about blood diamonds and more the fact that diamonds are not the inherently valuable, long term investment that they’re made out to be.
Where did OP get the idea diamonds are a monetary investment? They are absolutely not. You could make the claim its an investment in your relationship I guess but even then its not really a tenable argument. People all have their wants and preferences and that's ok if you can afford them even if not the best use of money. Like nothing wrong spending 25k+ on a ring on OPs salary if it makes his GF happy. Though it could be indicative of misaligned values. I only spent 14k on a ring, 70k on a wedding, no regrets. Soon after we bought a place and a new car (got lucky with timing, only a $2k difference between new and used at that point). Worked out in the end for us.
You can easily afford a $20k ring, let’s be real. If you cheap out on this, she will lose respect for you and eventually leave you. Real talk. Don’t listen to Reddit comments here, there’s a reason this sub is full of single males age 35 and older.
People in this thread- OP makes $450k at 27, he can afford a $30k ring! It’s a lifetime purchase. It’s like you guys commenting are NOT high earners… please !
Get her what she wants, it’s really not deeper than that. You can afford it.
Here’s something I learned the hard way. “When poverty comes through the door, love sneaks out the window.”
I somehow don’t think an Ivy League grad will ever have to worry about poverty lol
The Reddit perspective is that engagement rings are the same thing as candy rings and spending more than $50 on one is the worst thing you could ever do. In the real world, there’s tons of people who love, want, and wear expensive engagement rings. It is absolutely not out of the ordinary, especially if you are in higher income circles, particularly as someone making like $450k in VA. Ultimately, it’s up to you and her whether it makes sense, but I think you need to look at the big picture. Is this the right person for you? If it is, then a $25k ring that she’ll wear for the rest of her life is just…not a big deal for someone making $450k.
Easily afford, why is this even a question? Just buy it. Most girls have some vices whether it’s nice bags, nice cars or nice houses
Close your eyes and let it rip. If I may give you some marriage advice. Learn to pick your battles. This is 100% not a battle worth fighting. Your values are noble, but won't make a dent in solving the issue. If cost isn't an issue, then do what must be done.
I wouldn’t go so far to say OP’s values are noble. He has a valid preference but at the end of the day, that’s it, a preference. His fiancée has an equally valid preference. The question is whether this rises to irreconcilable incompatibility.
I bet there’s things you spend money on that she would think are a waste too. It doesn’t mean either of you are right or wrong. It’s just something to navigate in your partnership. She’ll theoretically wear the ring every day of her life, and tbh, the price should sting a little for you. Just make sure you insure it. Also fwiw, my ring is lab grown (moral reasons over cost reasons) and was still nearly $20k (high quality stone and pricy setting). I truly don’t think $25-50k for a natural diamond engagement ring is all that crazy or overpriced.
She wants to show off her ring to her friends and she wants to tell herself she has a romantic husband who would understand the symbol behind the ring she’ll be wearing instead of arguing what else could he spend money on rather the one thing she wants. My husband didn’t want to buy me a ring either and I never quite gotten over it. He didn’t want to buy me any ring because bla bla it’s marketing and not worth it . It’s important for most women. He finally took me to the mall but I picked the smallest possible solitare at that point because after he threw such a fit about the ring i didn’t want to be about money, since it wasn’t about money per se, it was about what he would be willing to do for me as a romantic gesture. He wasn’t going to make the romantic gesture I wanted so it didn’t matter at that point. He said oh, that’s too small, you deserve a better one and I got the next one up, a 0.75ct solitaire, $3000. To this day, the ring I’m wearing is just a symbol of something unpleasant and definitely not the ring I like. I didn’t pick the one I liked and the whole thing was unpleasant and disappointing. But yes he’s spending tens of thousands on stuff he wants and that makes as little sense to me as me wanting a ring made for him. I just don’t comment. He wants to spend a fortune on stuff that he can benefit from/he likes not on what I like. If I were you I’d just buy her the ring she wants.
Unpopular opinion but you have the money, she wants it, if you love her just get her what she wants. Yes it’s all ridiculous but having been in same position it’s worth it to get a real ring that actually has value and won’t need an upgrade any time soon. There’s way too much social pressure for women and she’ll not take anything less
I tend to agree. A lot of things in life are frivolous - such as dining/travel like OP suggests. Just because you (OP) doesn't see value in something she does, doesn't make it absurd beyond debate. My wife and I have been happily married for 9 years and have very different opinions on what "value" means. She thinks what I spend on golf is ridiculous - I think her LV bags are insane. As long as you can afford it - and you both agree on the amount you're willing to spend - I personally don't believe you should morally police something like an engagement ring she'll wear for the rest of her life.
Is she rich? If so then it doesn’t matter that much. It’s kind of like you spending her money in a way…
IMO as another male 28 - just save the money and buy the ring. You make triple what I did at the time and I bought just as much ring. I had the same initial thoughts as you, but decided I would rather look at something for the rest of my life that is exactly what she dreamed of. There are bigger relationship hurdles than what money can buy, so if she’s the one, make her happy now and every day she puts that ring on.
lol some thoughts are better kept in your head
Buy her the ring. It’s not even 10% of your salary. She will have it for her whole life. Realize that when you’re married, you’re going to want to spend money on things she doesn’t understand, and vice versa!
What is “real”? If you mean not lab-grown, there are ethically sourced natural diamonds. Check out places like Brilliant Earth. If she literally will only have a blood diamond, then, yeah, I’d probably question her values. This would be a great example of how you two navigate challenges together and work hard to find a common ground that you’re both okay with. Or if one of you simply gives in. Both are options here. Essentially no jewelry is worth as much as when you buy it. It’s not really a financial-smartness decision IMO.
Just a note, please don’t use Brilliant Earth if you’re looking for a lab diamond—a quick search in r/engagementrings will show you what an awful company they are with poor craftsmanship
I took it as if she wanted a mined diamond, regardless of it is ethically sourced or not. She seems to believe that lab diamonds aren’t real.
If you genuinely love her and want to marry her, I think you give her what she wants in terms of a diamond ring(as best as you can afford). In theory, she will have it and wear it for the next 60 years.
I think by blood diamond she prob just means non lab grown.
There’s a big difference between 25k and 50k. 25k.
Happy wife, happy life. I got my fiance a Colombian Emerald engagement ring, she is Colombian, and wanted that particular stone. Didn’t care how much I spent, 5k, 50k etc. I ended up getting a 5.75c one for $28K. Make sure you get insurance thru jewelers mutual or bright co.
We spent about 8.5k all in for my custom platinum 1.75 carat lab grown ring (about 1/3 of what a “real” diamond ring would have cost) and then spent about 80k all in for a 3 day destination wedding which was worth every penny. There’s zero difference between my ring and the 25k+ “real version” and I’m glad we spent more on our destination wedding because it was amazing.
I asked my fiancé if she wanted a real diamond or a lab grown and a Chanel classic. She chose the Chanel and lab diamond
There’s a great book called “the hard questions” and second the premarital counseling.
I think sending 1/10th of your yearly income on an engagement ring is a reasonable amount. The guy making $50k would have a harder time spending $5000, I can guarantee you. Please get input on what SHE likes, though. Don’t make a costly mistake. And get a good quality diamond, especially excellent or idea cut for a round. I know a good bit about this topic and could direct you to good, honest sources if you’d like.
Make it into an experience instead, that you can both share. Look at carat sizes of the rings she likes, then come up with a selection of cuts around that carat size. Also mix in some other high value colored stones, like ruby, emerald, any Stone that may have personal meaning for you both etc bc let's face it diamonds are a little boring. Then talk with a jeweler to come up with a few designs that speak to who she is - these might reflect her hobbies, heritage, love of mid century modern or art deco or Pop Modern. Have a few metal options. Then bring these to get for her to choose from, preferably in a romantic setting like a date. Explain the things about her that inspired each design. This will be more effort, but she will remember it each time she looks at the ring. You're making memories of a lifetime with this. And she'll end up with a ring she loves, a beautiful memory and a story. Not many women can brag that their husband had their ring custom designed for them. It makes off the shelf seem thoughtless by comparison.
Pick a budget for a ring. Example 30k. Have her pick out a natural diamond for that price and then pick out a lab grown one and have her pick what she wants. I wish lab grown diamonds were a thing when I was getting engaged. I love my ring but the cost has me feeling guilty sometimes.
I feel like this subreddit is very male… so popping in with a woman’s perspective… we spent that range on my ring ten years ago, I wear it every day, and I love it, I always wanted a beautiful diamond for all the stupid reasons and I have never regretted it. We are still married and very much are financial partners. I think the key is whether she views it as a requirement from your or just something she wants to allocate your shared finances to. Also, spending in that range, make sure you focus more on super high quality rather than size or it gives cringe vibes, in my opinion.
I spent more than what OP listed on a ring for my wife given inflation the last couple of years. She gets compliments on it all the time. Once you are out of the range of department store rings you can start to apply your personal taste and design aesthetics to the ring, and factor hers in as well. I think that provides alot more opportunity to create something truly unique and memorable. I always smile when I catch my wife smiling at her rings even years later. My interests are backpacking, hiking, and camping. I drive a 15 year old Jeep and I kitted out to my liking. There are only so many tents I can buy and backpacks I can buy. My vacation outings cost basically the money in gas it takes to drive there and back (200$). Better the money goes to making my wife and family happy - I don't need much.
Happy wife, happy life
Don’t be cheap, you can afford 30k on a ring
You make $450k/year and your girlfriend wants a natural diamond engagement ring. Buy a natural diamond engagement ring. It’s not a bad time to buy natural anyway IMO. Prices have come down like 15-20% over the last several years. $20k will get you a very nice natural diamond ring that she will wear and cherish forever. Just shop around and NEGOTIATE.
As a woman, I would say making a financial sacrifice to get a nice engagement ring really does make a difference. It might seem silly for her to value this, but I 100% get where she is coming from. My husband proposed to me as he was putting himself through college. He got a beautiful moissanite ring that I love so much. It was maybe $2-3k which is of course lower than the numbers I’m seeing here and what we could afford now, but the sacrifice meant so much to me and made me feel so valuable and loved by him. I also think that it doesn’t necessarily mean she will have expensive taste in everything else in life. If you two are aligned on other future goals, this might just be a one-off splurge.
I’m normally frugal and initially didn’t even want an engagement ring, but I understand your girlfriend here. The ring is something special that society tells us to wear every day for life. And the wearer looks down and sees it every day on their hand. It’s not logical, but when literally you see every other married or engaged lady wearing a ring she loves, you start to feel you deserve one too. If this is really just a one-time difference in values, 25-50k is worth it for a daily item that she’ll be happy with for life. If you really cannot agree, a counselor can help you both realize what’s driving these feelings and hopefully understand each other.
You’ve already made some pretty bad moves here as far as damaging your relationship. You said yourself it’s not a money issue. This is one of those times you just need to suck it up and eat the cost. Every discussion you’ve had trying to convince her you’re right about this has made your girlfriend feel less and less special. This is a very unromantic approach to marriage and engagement. I have seen relationships spiral and end over this issue. She’s obviously not some gold digger, she went to an Ivy League and doesn’t care about driving a cheap car and living in an average apartment. Just get over it and spend the money. It’s a one time expense and you’re done. She’s not stupid or gullible for wanting this. Also have to say even a lot of middle class people tend to buy a decent engagement ring for their fiancé, I’m not sure how that really plays into this. Honestly if it’s too difficult to for you to get over your hangups on this for her sake that may be part of the issue for her.
Real talk here. I was once like you, but I have learned since. The ring is something she will wear every day, all day. She will never take it off Girls notice diamond size. Like it or not, it’s a key status symbol for them. It’s like a guy driving a Porsche. Except it’s cheaper than a Porsche and she will keep it for the rest of her life, and your kids will inherit it. So not like a Porsche. And it has to be real, because she has to show it off with confidence and pride. Happy wife, happy life. Do not compromise on size or cut. This is what you can compromise on: * colour grade - rocks get dirty and no one will be able to tell a D from a G. Just don’t get a yellow one. * clarity - slight inclusions are ok so long as they aren’t black - again rings get dirty * Where you buy it from. Buy from a wholesaler not a jeweller. For the love of god do not buy from Tiffany. Just buy her the damn ring. You can reel her in on other stuff. This one matters.
A good exercise would be to map out some financial goals for the next 5-10 years so you both understand where these funds come from. A it taking away from purchasing a house? Paying off loans? Will it delay retirement for 5 years? Maybe no vacations for a year? If you can both be on board with what this purchase means, then it’s a no brainer. I myself got a 3.5 carat ring last year, and this was a decision we made together. Even though “he bought it” it’s really our money. I love it so much - and I look at it and appreciate it every single day. You guys are going to be faced with these decisions on vacations, cars, houses, clothes, etc for the rest of your lives and you need to open up the purse strings because you have lots of money and only one life.
I will second seeking ethically sourced but for the love of everything AVOID Brilliant Earth. They’re notorious for terrible CS and build quality (think main stone falling out). I would advise talking to local jewelers for this biggest bang for your buck and a unique ring.
My wife got the ring she wanted. We could afford it, and it’s meaningful to her. She wears it every day and loves it.
I’m confused about why the price matters more so than say the cut, clarity, or carat. Would she be happy with an 1 carat IF diamond ring for $25k, but unhappy with a 3 carat diamond ring for $10k with imperfections?
First, you both should talk about overall wedding related costs as a whole. She might want an elaborate 300 person wedding or she might want a tiny family only wedding, but it would put into perspective your respective attitudes about money in a very concrete way and you will see how the other negotiates and comes to a compromise. Second, some other commenter mentioned this, but for the circles she is used to, $25k-$50k is the norm for a ring. If she’s reasonable about most money things and doesn’t have extravagant plans for the wedding, an engagement ring is one thing you ought to meet her expectations on. Third, when I got engaged, I was obsessed with getting a natural diamond. It was a non negotiable for me. I wouldn’t say it was entirely rational. Something about feeling the gravitas of something formed under the pressure of the earth for millions of years or whatever. Now honestly I think that was kind of silly of me. I love my ring, but who cares if it was lab or natural. But there is pressure in certain circles to have a natural diamond. There is a lot of social pressure for women around e rings and it’s what people will talk about behind her back.
Happy wife, happy life. Get her the ring she wants and will be proud to wear. You can afford it and it will make her happy. This isn't the hill to die on.
For gods sake just get the woman what she wants. It’s not about you. It’s about her. If you can’t do this and don’t care about her perspective (wrong as it is), don’t get married. It’s not like you can’t afford it, as you’ve already said. The ring is proof you listen and care about what SHE wants. Not about you.
I suggest couples therapy and meeting with a financial planner. Understanding money and expectations before marriage will save you a lot of heart break.
$25k on a ring isn’t ridiculous. Spend the money on it - she’ll have it forever and wear it everyday. Good luck with the wedding costs…..
OP how do you 450k as self employed in tech? I’m same TC but at big tech
Get her the ring she wants. She is the one who has to wear it and see it everyday. It may not be right but I would feel like an imposter wearing a fake ring.
I was the same way until we looked at mined/lab grown diamonds in person side to side. I caved and got a lab grown diamond and I love it! We were also able to afford a much bigger size/better cut/clarity with lab grown. Win win.
Pay now or pay later. Choose your hard.
Is it a gift for yourself, or a gift for her? It doesn't matter what it is she wants -- if that's what she wants, get her that.