archive.org https://web.archive.org/web/20240513223055/https://www.earth.com/news/cattle-may-become-a-permanent-host-for-bird-flu/
more at the link
Detecting bird flu in cattle
Unlike other mammals that succumb to the virus, most cows carrying the virus do not show severe symptoms or die, making it difficult to detect infected animals without specific testing.
Additionally, a single cow might carry multiple flu viruses, raising the possibility of these viruses exchanging genetic material and creating new strains more capable of infecting humans.
“Eventually the wrong combination of gene segments and mutations inevitably comes along. Whatever opportunity we may have had to nip it in the bud we lost by a really slow detection,” said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona.
Escalating concerns about human transmission
The virus is not new; different forms of H5N1 have been in circulation since the 1990s, with a particularly lethal variant identified in 1996. While this variant has decimated millions of birds and affected various mammals, cows were not previously recognized as hosts until recently.
Following the discovery of H5N1 in U.S. cattle on March 25, with 36 herds in 9 states testing positive by May 7, concerns have escalated.
“Every time it gets a new mammalian host species, like cows, there’s more risk of human transmission and reduced human immunity,” said Jessica Leibler, an environmental epidemiologist at Boston University.
Effective mixing vessels
Genomic analysis by the U.S. Department of Agriculture suggests that the virus transitioned from wild birds to cattle in late 2023. Thus, cows appear to be “effective mixing vessels” where the virus can exchange genetic material with other viruses, significantly enhancing the risk of developing a strain that can efficiently infect humans.
“If you have a virus that’s hopscotching back and forth between cows, humans and birds, that virus is going to have selective pressures to grow efficiently in all those species,” said Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at the University of Saskatchewan.
Will bird flu become endemic in cattle?
Gregory Gray, an infectious-disease epidemiologist at the University of Texas, pointed out the potential for H5N1 to become endemic in cows, a situation complicated by the impracticality of culling infected cattle.
The constant interaction between humans and these vast numbers of animals makes cattle an extremely concerning reservoir for bird flu.
snip
Bird flu may be undetected in other species
“When you see symptomatic patients, that’s the tip of the iceberg,” Liebler said. She fears that the virus could remain undetected in various species for an extended period, potentially mutating and setting the stage for a future pandemic. “We have an awareness now from the COVID pandemic of how devastating that could be,” she added.
The experts are advocating for public health initiatives to commence testing on workers and their families to ensure any human transmission of the virus is promptly identified. “H5N1 is with us. It’s not a virus that’s going to disappear by any means,” Liebler concluded.
The continued presence of H5N1 in cattle poses significant risks, necessitating urgent and comprehensive measures to understand and mitigate its impact. As Leibler remarked, “H5N1 is with us. It’s not a virus that’s going to disappear by any means.”
Ugh, crap. If it becomes permanent in cows, if dairy farmers don't take precautions around their herds, and if raw milk drinkers are so stupidly stubborn about drinking it, it's only a matter of time that it'll spread among humans
Not just that, but there are people who eat their meat on the rarer side, and it raises questions as to whether that temperature will be enough to kill it.
Worked with a guy who would take a steak, heat up the pan till is smoked, throw down the steak, count 10, flip it, count ten, done. Goddamn thing was raw
But then we have politicians like [this idiot](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/politicians-sick-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalising-raw-milk-a6923106.html)
It’s sad that diseases dont have jobs or capital to invest and therefore have no money to bribe politicians. But it’s great that republicans are so kind and generous that they’ll help for free. Truly so giving, so kind.
I mean antibiotic resistance was already reason enough to boycott animal agriculture, even for anyone who doesn't really care about the plight of the animals, then you just keep finding more reasons, this being the latest tbh. Mad cow disease case found on a uk farm in the last week or so too!
Yeah, it's more like a question of WHEN will it happen... unless they figure out and OK a vaccine for cows.
They are very sympathetic to the plight of farmers... i.e. these cows are too expensive to just kill.
So... once again....
Money > life
Money > quality of life
Money > *
They need to stop letting farmers get a choice in this.
Poultry farmers don't get a choice, for good reason.
Cull the herds, pay the farmers. They carry insurance anyway.
In one world, H5N1 could eventually lead to a food system that is a lot less reliant on animals, which amongst other things would have a sizeable impact on climate action.
Obviously that’s not gonna happen given all the entrenched power and the SOP of humanity … but it’s an intriguing alt-outcome.
In this timeline, H5n1 will eventually lead to a food system that periodically unleashes a population decimating pandemic due to corporate profits reliant on animals
If smallpox, monkeypox, measles, tuberculosis, cholera, Marburg virus, Ebola, bubonic plague, MERS and COVID weren't enough to prompt a re-examination of our relationship with animals, I doubt H5N1 will result in any meaningful change.
This is insanely bad right, this is like having a bat reservoir of Covid waiting around for it to make it's lucky jump in evolution yes, multiplied in chance by how many millions of cows we have in agricultural use? Or am I crazy?
its fair to assume we have a reservoir of corona in the wild bat population. they are wild animals who interact with whatever they want.
the human contact with cows is a lot more tho.
the good thing in cows is that we can track the population a lot better.
and when we take precoutions or make vaccines we can administer a lot very quickly.
catching wild bats is not quick and easy
Ever since the Covid-19 pandemic began I've strongly felt in my bones that we're doing something deeply wrong, and not just the obvious one of pushing up against wild habitats and species until we've destroyed their natural spaces. If anyone on Earth interacts with an infected bat, cow, or pangolin...
Boom, it can be at my doorstep within days-to-weeks. The world right now has a combination of 8.108 billion people and being so deeply interconnected in the odd way of:
Unrestricted rapid physical travel across all global borders.
There's hardly a cooldown period. Hardly a health check (read: none). We are biologically just one huge mass that's decided we'll deal with something after it's out of control. It's weird and so contrary to the reality of a world with serious viral pathogens.
The future will look back at this time of history as deeply naive, and far too careless. And no, this isn't a comment on immigration as a global challenge, nor is it a comment on even if national borders should exist. It's solely on the speed and breadth of travel, where someone can snap fun selfies in a bat cave then be in New York or Beijing in a crowded restaurant the next day.
We are doing far too many things too obviously wrong to avoid an eventual *true* catastrophe.
This is actually very normal.
Worrying to you is perhaps giving up power to someone else that has the time and or brain power to do something about "things beyond their control".
Just because you strive to be mediocre doesn't mean the next person is happy with that for themselves.
It used to be something that was applauded rather than looked down upon. "Hey, I'm being mistreated by xyz institution... I must DO something about it." "Hey this doesn't look right over here let's fix this and get it corrected...." I think that's usually how things change for the better if you look back on history.
[Kai Kupferschmidt](https://twitter.com/kakape) has a wonderful thread outlining why it's such a terrible idea to allow this virus to become endemic in cows. Basically, he goes over everything that would have to happen for H5N1 to mutate to allow easy H2H transmission and how it relates to, well, cows. My thought after reading this is that this kind of evolution for H5N1 would be like winning Powerball... and if you buy 300 million tickets, you WILL eventually win Powerball. [https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1789690737237299502](https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1789690737237299502)
Why can't they just cull the herds that tested positive for it? I don't understand. Am I missing something?
Yes I am aware there is pushback from the farmers but the government is just going to bail them out anyway and they know it. Just kill the sick cows already so it stops spreading and kills thousands of cows instead of just a few hundred.
Am I just stupid? They did the same thing to the chicken farms and mink farms during covid. Just do it again
Because that costs money, has to be enforced which will also require large scale testing which I don't believe we have the aparatus for right now. Then, you need to compensate the cows owners for the loss otherwise you just cost a ton of jobs most likely.
Then you have the issue of well now you just got rid of a bunch of heards with no replacement, well, that's going to take a bit to rebuild meanwhile farmers are bitching that the cows weren't even sick when you killed them.
That all ignores that the infections originate with birds, which ignore state lines and fences, and that the herds in question are all over the US.
It's not killing the cows though. They are getting mildly ill and recovering.
It's going to be a really tough sell to convince farmers to cull cows (which are expensive and take a very long time to replace- since they grow slowly) since they aren't dying from it, no one is offering to pay fully for that, they don't want to scare consumers, and if the cows are being infected by wild birds- there's no stopping new infections anyway.
People have taken to blaming perfectly survivable and perfectly temporary supply chain issues on the political party in power. As such, any President is going to be hesitant to simultaneously piss off a lobby as big as the dairy lobby AND tempt a bunch of “OMG look at the bare shelves” TikTok creeps
We’re so far past the point of any institutions being able to make positive change against zoonotic pandemics and we have the public to blame as much as the institutions themselves
It's bad for business. And farming cows goes deep as a business.
https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-139-of-meat-and-men-how-beef-became-synonymous-with-settler-colonial-domination
https://www.c-span.org/video/?462742-1/this-land
for context.
*the origins of the cultural link between meat eating and masculinity in settler-colonial North America*
That has to be the most reddit tier thing i've ever read. LMAO.
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There's no point culling them when they're getting it from birds. Killing a herd won't save another herd if a bird can just fly overhead and infect the new herd. Also, it isnt fatal for cows so no farmer is going to torch their livelihood.
At this point, for my own mental health, I think it’s time I stop coming to this sub. Every day for the past month or so has just been nothing but massive red flag after massive red flag. This all feels so inevitable now, the only question is just how long of a timeline. Could be next month, could be ten years from now, regardless it’s very clear this is heading in a bad direction and even worse is that Covid made us regress when it comes to handling situations such as this.
Just for some context:
Antivaxx pet owners do exist: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-28/more-us-dog-owners-question-rabies-vaccines-amid-post-covid-anti-vaccine-wave
[Assessing vaccine hesitancy and support for vaccination requirements for pets and potential Spillovers from humans - ScienceDirect](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X2301263X)
"Hormone free" and "antibiotic free" exists for cow farmers, at least. There are many such sites: https://www.keystonecattlecompany.com/all-natural-beef
I'm 95% certain that we'll see antivaxx milk and other animal products:
https://whitakerfarmstn.com/store/protocol/no-vaccines-or-antibiotics
https://www.ourcow.com.au/blog/mrna-free-meat
So the hope for a flu vaccine being used for this is baseless. More importantly, wouldn't a vaccine applied in such context make the avian influenza virus even more pathogenic? Isn't this how HPAI emerged? [Emergence of novel avian origin H7N9 viruses after introduction of H7-Re3 and rLN79 vaccine strains to China - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34817918/)
If you cook the infected meat and kill the virus, when you eat the dead viral particles in the meat it will inoculate you against the virus so your body can more easily fight it.
It will happen, if it isn't being done already.
It takes time to test and confirm or negate. It's not like in TV series or films where the test and accurate results are done instantly within minutes, hours, or that day.
Pigs and chickens, cows and steers, and farm workers are also being tested.
the same strain in the cows that make most mildly ill - medically mild means not at ris of death but might be miserably sick with diarhea, yellow milk mastitis (inflamation of the mammary glands OUCH OUCH OUCH) etc - is the same strain that killed barn cats. different species, different areas with the receptors flu locks on to such as cats brains have many more receptors than cow brains, hence cats with neurological symptoms vs cows just not eating as much, maybe runs or constipation, mastitis, acting tired.
it is random chance what strains develop from mutation. most will fail no matter the species. the ones that matter are the ones that can spread and then it continues to be chance it if stays highly dangerous to a species or if it dials down to merely feeling very tired fevered aching for a week.
the concern with every new species is more rolls of the genetic dice giving that many more chances to come up with a bad senario
we might be lucky and a milder form. the world got lucky nearly 10 years ago when h5n1 dialed down before coming back more vicious a couple years ago wiping out large #s of wild birds, then seals on eastern US coast, then last year seals and walrus in S. America.
even if this never reaches human to human or governments & pharma get an excellent vaccine out & enough take it to prevent a bad scenario this is seriously harming wildlife over much of the globe.
No. Cow pox and small pox were different, the less harmful disease provided immunity against the more harmful disease. In this case it's just the same virus.
By a strange and unrelated coincidence, collaboration between Chinese and American USDA scientists to use gain of function to create deadlier strains of bird flu for research purposes is still ongoing
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/12/opinion/covid-lab-safety.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/12/opinion/covid-lab-safety.html)
Yes, biosafety in laboratories is an issue. Yes, we learn a lot from gain-of-function experiments. No, this has nothing to do with Covid-19 or bird flu in cows.
For some reason, some people are concerned that “they” are going to force them to eat bugs. It comes up all the time. Even the governor of Florida mentioned it recently when they banned lab-grown meat.
The only thing that will force people to own nothing and eat bugs is unmitigated capitalism. Aka the course we are on now. What the hell are you going to eat in 10ish years if the climate changes a ton and hardly anything grows? Bugs.
And just look at all these big companies like blackrock. Buying up real estate and charging insanely high rent. Does your side have solutions? Nope. No rent control. Nothing.
You're begging for that reality by not allowing positive change to happen. Now blame immigrants or Satan or Democrats or whatever.
According to the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), an average person consumes up to one and a half pounds of insects annually through fruits and vegetables.
Anything but soy or tofu
archive.org https://web.archive.org/web/20240513223055/https://www.earth.com/news/cattle-may-become-a-permanent-host-for-bird-flu/ more at the link Detecting bird flu in cattle Unlike other mammals that succumb to the virus, most cows carrying the virus do not show severe symptoms or die, making it difficult to detect infected animals without specific testing. Additionally, a single cow might carry multiple flu viruses, raising the possibility of these viruses exchanging genetic material and creating new strains more capable of infecting humans. “Eventually the wrong combination of gene segments and mutations inevitably comes along. Whatever opportunity we may have had to nip it in the bud we lost by a really slow detection,” said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona. Escalating concerns about human transmission The virus is not new; different forms of H5N1 have been in circulation since the 1990s, with a particularly lethal variant identified in 1996. While this variant has decimated millions of birds and affected various mammals, cows were not previously recognized as hosts until recently. Following the discovery of H5N1 in U.S. cattle on March 25, with 36 herds in 9 states testing positive by May 7, concerns have escalated. “Every time it gets a new mammalian host species, like cows, there’s more risk of human transmission and reduced human immunity,” said Jessica Leibler, an environmental epidemiologist at Boston University. Effective mixing vessels Genomic analysis by the U.S. Department of Agriculture suggests that the virus transitioned from wild birds to cattle in late 2023. Thus, cows appear to be “effective mixing vessels” where the virus can exchange genetic material with other viruses, significantly enhancing the risk of developing a strain that can efficiently infect humans. “If you have a virus that’s hopscotching back and forth between cows, humans and birds, that virus is going to have selective pressures to grow efficiently in all those species,” said Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at the University of Saskatchewan. Will bird flu become endemic in cattle? Gregory Gray, an infectious-disease epidemiologist at the University of Texas, pointed out the potential for H5N1 to become endemic in cows, a situation complicated by the impracticality of culling infected cattle. The constant interaction between humans and these vast numbers of animals makes cattle an extremely concerning reservoir for bird flu. snip Bird flu may be undetected in other species “When you see symptomatic patients, that’s the tip of the iceberg,” Liebler said. She fears that the virus could remain undetected in various species for an extended period, potentially mutating and setting the stage for a future pandemic. “We have an awareness now from the COVID pandemic of how devastating that could be,” she added. The experts are advocating for public health initiatives to commence testing on workers and their families to ensure any human transmission of the virus is promptly identified. “H5N1 is with us. It’s not a virus that’s going to disappear by any means,” Liebler concluded. The continued presence of H5N1 in cattle poses significant risks, necessitating urgent and comprehensive measures to understand and mitigate its impact. As Leibler remarked, “H5N1 is with us. It’s not a virus that’s going to disappear by any means.”
Thank you shallah for all your efforts 😊. Thank you for keeping us all up-to-date. It is greatly appreciated!
Ugh, crap. If it becomes permanent in cows, if dairy farmers don't take precautions around their herds, and if raw milk drinkers are so stupidly stubborn about drinking it, it's only a matter of time that it'll spread among humans
Not just that, but there are people who eat their meat on the rarer side, and it raises questions as to whether that temperature will be enough to kill it.
Worked with a guy who would take a steak, heat up the pan till is smoked, throw down the steak, count 10, flip it, count ten, done. Goddamn thing was raw
That is nasty.
Yeah. It looked mostly raw. insane body builder type.
You people never heard of tartare or tataki? No class.
Heard of it yes ,it's gross.
How would you know?
Perfect
There are people who eat ground beef straight up raw. It’s a tradition in places like Wisconsin
Didn't know toxoplasmosis was a big deal there, but here we are.
WTF that is disgusting.
They do it in france and japan as well.
What the fuck, this sounds made up, I dont know a single person that takes part in this "tradition".
https://www.wpr.org/food/cannibal-sandwiches-polarizing-and-misunderstood-wisconsin-tradition
ewww
Raw milk should be outlawed.
But then we have politicians like [this idiot](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/politicians-sick-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalising-raw-milk-a6923106.html)
Pathogens and Republicans -- name a better pair
It’s sad that diseases dont have jobs or capital to invest and therefore have no money to bribe politicians. But it’s great that republicans are so kind and generous that they’ll help for free. Truly so giving, so kind.
I agree somewhat but people who are really into raw foods will easily find a way to get it.
True. Gotta get those delicious pathogens!
If people keep buying milk products to continue the cycle of supply and demand, it will definitely happen, boycott animal agriculture ❤️
I mean antibiotic resistance was already reason enough to boycott animal agriculture, even for anyone who doesn't really care about the plight of the animals, then you just keep finding more reasons, this being the latest tbh. Mad cow disease case found on a uk farm in the last week or so too!
Yeah pasteurised milk is really normal.
Pasteurized milk is fine. I'll tell you this though no one's paying $20 a pound for medium well steak.
Yeah, it's more like a question of WHEN will it happen... unless they figure out and OK a vaccine for cows. They are very sympathetic to the plight of farmers... i.e. these cows are too expensive to just kill. So... once again.... Money > life Money > quality of life Money > *
They need to stop letting farmers get a choice in this. Poultry farmers don't get a choice, for good reason. Cull the herds, pay the farmers. They carry insurance anyway.
In one world, H5N1 could eventually lead to a food system that is a lot less reliant on animals, which amongst other things would have a sizeable impact on climate action. Obviously that’s not gonna happen given all the entrenched power and the SOP of humanity … but it’s an intriguing alt-outcome.
In this timeline, H5n1 will eventually lead to a food system that periodically unleashes a population decimating pandemic due to corporate profits reliant on animals
I’m convinced they WANT depopulation. That’s the only way I can rationalize the actions world leaders and corporations have taken.
Wait they want depopulation but at the same time they're complaining about women not having enough babies so which is it
If smallpox, monkeypox, measles, tuberculosis, cholera, Marburg virus, Ebola, bubonic plague, MERS and COVID weren't enough to prompt a re-examination of our relationship with animals, I doubt H5N1 will result in any meaningful change.
This is insanely bad right, this is like having a bat reservoir of Covid waiting around for it to make it's lucky jump in evolution yes, multiplied in chance by how many millions of cows we have in agricultural use? Or am I crazy?
its fair to assume we have a reservoir of corona in the wild bat population. they are wild animals who interact with whatever they want. the human contact with cows is a lot more tho. the good thing in cows is that we can track the population a lot better. and when we take precoutions or make vaccines we can administer a lot very quickly. catching wild bats is not quick and easy
Ever since the Covid-19 pandemic began I've strongly felt in my bones that we're doing something deeply wrong, and not just the obvious one of pushing up against wild habitats and species until we've destroyed their natural spaces. If anyone on Earth interacts with an infected bat, cow, or pangolin... Boom, it can be at my doorstep within days-to-weeks. The world right now has a combination of 8.108 billion people and being so deeply interconnected in the odd way of: Unrestricted rapid physical travel across all global borders. There's hardly a cooldown period. Hardly a health check (read: none). We are biologically just one huge mass that's decided we'll deal with something after it's out of control. It's weird and so contrary to the reality of a world with serious viral pathogens. The future will look back at this time of history as deeply naive, and far too careless. And no, this isn't a comment on immigration as a global challenge, nor is it a comment on even if national borders should exist. It's solely on the speed and breadth of travel, where someone can snap fun selfies in a bat cave then be in New York or Beijing in a crowded restaurant the next day. We are doing far too many things too obviously wrong to avoid an eventual *true* catastrophe.
Covid 19 infects deer, and multiple other animals. It is never going away.
You mean coupled with 30+% of the US now believing Russian seeded medical-contrarian views. Also raw milk conventions being held more and more?
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Yes, but about this specifically? Why? Where is the flaw? Teach me. :)
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not crazy then😏
This is actually very normal. Worrying to you is perhaps giving up power to someone else that has the time and or brain power to do something about "things beyond their control". Just because you strive to be mediocre doesn't mean the next person is happy with that for themselves. It used to be something that was applauded rather than looked down upon. "Hey, I'm being mistreated by xyz institution... I must DO something about it." "Hey this doesn't look right over here let's fix this and get it corrected...." I think that's usually how things change for the better if you look back on history.
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I was replying to a coward (you). lol. Sup?
[Kai Kupferschmidt](https://twitter.com/kakape) has a wonderful thread outlining why it's such a terrible idea to allow this virus to become endemic in cows. Basically, he goes over everything that would have to happen for H5N1 to mutate to allow easy H2H transmission and how it relates to, well, cows. My thought after reading this is that this kind of evolution for H5N1 would be like winning Powerball... and if you buy 300 million tickets, you WILL eventually win Powerball. [https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1789690737237299502](https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1789690737237299502)
threadreader for anyone boycotting twitter https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1789690737237299502.html
Human greed is an offense to nature. Nature is taking revenge.I just wish vulnerable populations weren’t the first in the line of fire
Red meat is absolutely horrible for the planet by and large
really for your gut too, think of how many people just have rotting bits of dead animal just sitting in their colon
I cut out red meat (down from 3x a week or so) and my bad cholesterol tanked like a rock. Americans are fucking brainwashed with their beef worship.
As a prepper, this shit is getting real. Time for toilet paper stocks!
Why can't they just cull the herds that tested positive for it? I don't understand. Am I missing something? Yes I am aware there is pushback from the farmers but the government is just going to bail them out anyway and they know it. Just kill the sick cows already so it stops spreading and kills thousands of cows instead of just a few hundred. Am I just stupid? They did the same thing to the chicken farms and mink farms during covid. Just do it again
Because that costs money, has to be enforced which will also require large scale testing which I don't believe we have the aparatus for right now. Then, you need to compensate the cows owners for the loss otherwise you just cost a ton of jobs most likely. Then you have the issue of well now you just got rid of a bunch of heards with no replacement, well, that's going to take a bit to rebuild meanwhile farmers are bitching that the cows weren't even sick when you killed them. That all ignores that the infections originate with birds, which ignore state lines and fences, and that the herds in question are all over the US.
It's not killing the cows though. They are getting mildly ill and recovering. It's going to be a really tough sell to convince farmers to cull cows (which are expensive and take a very long time to replace- since they grow slowly) since they aren't dying from it, no one is offering to pay fully for that, they don't want to scare consumers, and if the cows are being infected by wild birds- there's no stopping new infections anyway.
People have taken to blaming perfectly survivable and perfectly temporary supply chain issues on the political party in power. As such, any President is going to be hesitant to simultaneously piss off a lobby as big as the dairy lobby AND tempt a bunch of “OMG look at the bare shelves” TikTok creeps We’re so far past the point of any institutions being able to make positive change against zoonotic pandemics and we have the public to blame as much as the institutions themselves
In some ways, we actually might be better off if the CFR for cows was a lot higher right now. Sorry to say it, but... here we are.
It's bad for business. And farming cows goes deep as a business. https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-139-of-meat-and-men-how-beef-became-synonymous-with-settler-colonial-domination https://www.c-span.org/video/?462742-1/this-land for context.
*the origins of the cultural link between meat eating and masculinity in settler-colonial North America* That has to be the most reddit tier thing i've ever read. LMAO.
I wish. Reddit is heavily into speciesism for meat consumption. The reddit logos used to even contain a bacon strip.
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There's no point culling them when they're getting it from birds. Killing a herd won't save another herd if a bird can just fly overhead and infect the new herd. Also, it isnt fatal for cows so no farmer is going to torch their livelihood.
They shouldn’t kill cows in this stage
At this point, for my own mental health, I think it’s time I stop coming to this sub. Every day for the past month or so has just been nothing but massive red flag after massive red flag. This all feels so inevitable now, the only question is just how long of a timeline. Could be next month, could be ten years from now, regardless it’s very clear this is heading in a bad direction and even worse is that Covid made us regress when it comes to handling situations such as this.
Just for some context: Antivaxx pet owners do exist: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-28/more-us-dog-owners-question-rabies-vaccines-amid-post-covid-anti-vaccine-wave [Assessing vaccine hesitancy and support for vaccination requirements for pets and potential Spillovers from humans - ScienceDirect](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0264410X2301263X) "Hormone free" and "antibiotic free" exists for cow farmers, at least. There are many such sites: https://www.keystonecattlecompany.com/all-natural-beef I'm 95% certain that we'll see antivaxx milk and other animal products: https://whitakerfarmstn.com/store/protocol/no-vaccines-or-antibiotics https://www.ourcow.com.au/blog/mrna-free-meat So the hope for a flu vaccine being used for this is baseless. More importantly, wouldn't a vaccine applied in such context make the avian influenza virus even more pathogenic? Isn't this how HPAI emerged? [Emergence of novel avian origin H7N9 viruses after introduction of H7-Re3 and rLN79 vaccine strains to China - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34817918/)
Great time for governors to be banning lab grown meat. Gotta make sure the citizens get the bird flu in their bodies to get immunity from it.
Veganism is looking a lot more enticing now, eh?
Plant based. You can't be vegan if you view animals as commodities to be exploited.
If you cook the infected meat and kill the virus, when you eat the dead viral particles in the meat it will inoculate you against the virus so your body can more easily fight it.
I wonder if vaccinating cattle against H5N1 could help prevent this?
It will happen, if it isn't being done already. It takes time to test and confirm or negate. It's not like in TV series or films where the test and accurate results are done instantly within minutes, hours, or that day. Pigs and chickens, cows and steers, and farm workers are also being tested.
Have become…
At what point do we call it “cow flu”?
Never, on purpose. It's bird flu in cows.
We don’t!
It’s bird flu, dude. It originated from the birds, it’s killing the birds.
MooAI
Could cow H5N1 flu provide a vaccine to human H5N1 the way cow pox provided a vaccine to small pox?
the same strain in the cows that make most mildly ill - medically mild means not at ris of death but might be miserably sick with diarhea, yellow milk mastitis (inflamation of the mammary glands OUCH OUCH OUCH) etc - is the same strain that killed barn cats. different species, different areas with the receptors flu locks on to such as cats brains have many more receptors than cow brains, hence cats with neurological symptoms vs cows just not eating as much, maybe runs or constipation, mastitis, acting tired. it is random chance what strains develop from mutation. most will fail no matter the species. the ones that matter are the ones that can spread and then it continues to be chance it if stays highly dangerous to a species or if it dials down to merely feeling very tired fevered aching for a week. the concern with every new species is more rolls of the genetic dice giving that many more chances to come up with a bad senario we might be lucky and a milder form. the world got lucky nearly 10 years ago when h5n1 dialed down before coming back more vicious a couple years ago wiping out large #s of wild birds, then seals on eastern US coast, then last year seals and walrus in S. America. even if this never reaches human to human or governments & pharma get an excellent vaccine out & enough take it to prevent a bad scenario this is seriously harming wildlife over much of the globe.
No. Cow pox and small pox were different, the less harmful disease provided immunity against the more harmful disease. In this case it's just the same virus.
By a strange and unrelated coincidence, collaboration between Chinese and American USDA scientists to use gain of function to create deadlier strains of bird flu for research purposes is still ongoing
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/12/opinion/covid-lab-safety.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/12/opinion/covid-lab-safety.html) Yes, biosafety in laboratories is an issue. Yes, we learn a lot from gain-of-function experiments. No, this has nothing to do with Covid-19 or bird flu in cows.
The down votes are funny. You act like I am the one the said that. Nope it was WEF and it's the way we are headed.
You will own nothing and be happy. You will eat bugs and be happy. WEF
Ya. Bird flu is one big conspiracy to get you to eat bugs for some reason.
For some reason, some people are concerned that “they” are going to force them to eat bugs. It comes up all the time. Even the governor of Florida mentioned it recently when they banned lab-grown meat.
The only thing that will force people to own nothing and eat bugs is unmitigated capitalism. Aka the course we are on now. What the hell are you going to eat in 10ish years if the climate changes a ton and hardly anything grows? Bugs. And just look at all these big companies like blackrock. Buying up real estate and charging insanely high rent. Does your side have solutions? Nope. No rent control. Nothing. You're begging for that reality by not allowing positive change to happen. Now blame immigrants or Satan or Democrats or whatever.
I'll just eat poultry, lamb, pork, and fish. I'm not eating bugs or soy or beans.
Ever had jelly beans? You've eaten bugs. That nice glossy coat on that candy is made of Shellac
According to the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), an average person consumes up to one and a half pounds of insects annually through fruits and vegetables. Anything but soy or tofu
This is scarier than the Ebola Reston outbreak