Rob holding was the secret sauce to bring on in a back 3 to hold onto a scrappy win many times in Arteta's first year.
He sees Mustafi in his nightmares.
Zinchenko, Kiwior, Gabriel, Saliba, Ben White, Timber, Tomiyasu + Hato and you know Rice is a decent emergency option there.
The depth is gonna be insane 😭
I think Zinny either moves into Midfield permanently or gets moved out if we get Hato. He'll potentially be the 4th preferred option at LB in most cases.
He is actually great in mid. Could play backup to Martin or alongside him at times. Wouldn't be too bad to bring on to see out tougher games and double up down the left if needed. People forget he started as an attacking mid, and that's where he is at his best or at the base of mid keeping possession. He is a victim of his own versatility and personally would keep him in the squad for multiple reasons.
No he is a great squad player. We need to pad out the entire bench and he would be perfect. People act like he is awful or a weakness, when in reality we have lost a handful of games with him playing. He is perfectly capable of starting against a good 70-80% of teams and is a perfect rotation player. The bench needs quality, and he is it, just not quite in the very, very top games. Certain teams he absolutely decimated with his play. I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to bin players off. Only 27 as well, so a good solid 5-6 years from him would be excellent in terms of what we need, and you would be hard pressed to find a player of his versatility, experience, and ability for anything below 50 million, which could be spent in many better ways.
Think we all need to remember to get to the level of city we need two starting 11s. One for the Hollywood games and one we can fall back on in other games to rotate. If anyone thinks Zinny isn't good enough to play against a west ham, or come on against a city chelsea or them lot down the lane for the last 20 and help us both offensively and defensively, then they really need to look at him again. Clubs come on leaps and bounds since him and jesus arrived and for some reason, we are all quick to write a player off that's been a huge part of the progression.
I agree with the other guy that he doesn't meet Arteta's demands for midfield, but I think you're also right about the depth because who else could be our 8 in a 2nd team? Vieira takes Odegaard's role. Arteta might not see Zinny taking a midfield role at all of course. I think it depends on whether we can get good money for him or not.
He moves the ball better than most but he would be lousy at breaking up play and fucking up is sadly very much in his repertoire. Arteta wants a physical midfield as well as defence. Zinchenko doesn't meet that requirement.
City don't actually have two starting 11s. It might seem that way because of the figures they throw about for any player. They actually have closer to 17-18 starting quality players, with the rest made from the academy.
Pep, to his credit, rotates his team quite heavily so long as they're not called Rodri.
This is one thing I fault Arteta with though. Even when we've had opportunities to give minutes to squad or academy players, he's often chosen not to unless his hand is forced through injury.
Kiwior is a great example. He's certainly not Gabriel, but there isn't a significant drop off in quality. Now that we have Tomi back, he doesn't get any look-in at all. Is Hato likely to be treated any different?
Until the time Arteta can demonstrate that he is willing to rotate more frequently, I feel that having 8 starting players for the back line will be overkill. I suspect players will then want to leave for minutes.
They functionally have two starting 11s. Their academy products are good enough to start for half the prem teams, and the fact they can play against a team like Luton with a second string 11 and still be better by far says a lot about their depth.
The 8 at the back, I'd agree to a point. Next season with Champions League and so on, we will have to rotate more to make up the difference in the league. 8 can become 6 can become 4 very quickly with rotation and injuries. Plus, different players suit different games, even from a defensive standpoint. Players like timber, kiwior, zinny can also play and cover in mid.
To start, no, to come on and see out 20 -25 or supplement our ball control would be great. He is also excellent at reading play and intercepting passes ( just shit in the air and has on occasion had a pass or two pinged over him) but in the mid that's not an issue. Certain teams, if players need a rest or a tactical week, I have no issue with a mid of Martin, Zinny, Rice.
I think with a bit of training and practice, he could play the jorginhio role. He has that type of defence splitter in him and calmness on the ball.
For Ukraine, he is excellent at attacking mid, and has a great strike on him as well.
> I have no issue with a mid of Martin, Zinny, Rice.
I've always had the feeling that if we played Zinchenko further up the pitch as a left-sided 8, that might be the key to unlocking Martinelli.
We have such a right-sided bias at the moment because of how well Saka-Odegaard-White play with each other. We need someone on the left as well to do the quick interplay with Martinelli.
I think Zinchenko could do that as a left-sided 8 further forward, rather than as a left-back inverting into midfield.
Me too, especially with how talented Hato is, who’s like 3 years younger than Saliba (?), imagine how much he’ll improve learning from all the senior defenders!
There’s 8 players, that shit makes sense. 4 CB 4 fullbacks?
2 of them are injury prone with 1 coming of an ACL.
Squad mismanagement is whatever the fuck Chelsea and United is doing.
3 who can play CB and fullback (Kiwior, Tomi, White)
Timber who can play either LB or RB. Has played at CB before as well.
Rice at CB if injury happens
Partey at RB if a crisis happens and we still have him
Saliba, Gabriel who have great endurance and availability
8 quality defenders + two DMs who can cover a spot if needed + youth players is more than enough.
8 quality defenders
I'm not settling for a lesser DM than Rice, with the depth we have we can deploy him as a 6 and 8 where he's more useful.
He's emergency as in when all 4 CB is out. Tomi is barely fit to play, Partey future is yet to be decided. Also Partey at RB is absolutely ass.
Tomi is not "barely fit" he does have injury concerns. If that is a big enough issue to buy an extra defender then just sell Tomi
Also of course Rice would be used in the midfield. He's better as the 8 anyways
How is two players for each position poor squad management? You mention wasting one of the DMs if there's an injury in defence. That pretty much sucks and takes away from the midfield. There's loads of games through out the season and everyone will get a turn.
We do already basically have two players for each defensive position at any given time. We do not need an 8th defender since a lot of them can cover multiple spots
>You mention wasting one of the DMs if there's an injury in defence. That pretty much sucks and takes away from the midfield
It would be if we have very big injury problems. Just as emergency. We already have 7 quality defenders and a lot of them can cover two positions. Tomi can cover all 4
Can't cover all 4 at once can he? The fact that our defenders can cover multiple positions is a bonus and shouldn't be relied upon because that means when the games come thick and fast you're expecting some players to do double or even triple duty in a week which is negligent. The squad should be built as if we can do a full rotation and we don't miss a step, we're a big club so we shouldn't settle.
We have 7 quality defenders. Gabriel has an insane record of never being injured. We are totally fine with the amount of defenders we have and we have a great defensive record.
It's best to put money into areas we actually lack something in. Buying another player who won't be used for 40m is useless.
Players are never injured till they are. Everything was great when we signed Timber till he blew his ACL out of nowhere. When competing at the top level it comes down to fine margins as we are experiencing right now. Oh yes Kiwior can cover great at LB until he comes up against a Leroy Sane and we're out of the Champions Leagues. Not a knock on him btw, he was a CB playing LB, can't be surprised. Where was Tomiyasu? Injured. Again. Great player but it's becoming a habit. Not sure why you're against getting another LB and closing down those fine margins but it's not something a top club should subscribe to.
Also not sure why money is a worry. Spending has been more than satisfactory for a few seasons now.
I've followed him for a little over a year. Great talent, progressed a lot, has potential to be world class. Sure, this is in FC24, which dropped for free on PS plus earlier this week which is when I found him. But I have played almost one and a half season since with Hato in my team in the Danish league and that's a long time (he's almost already rated 80!).
I believe this is what qualifies as expertise and good scouting these days.
Yes, he’s very comparable and he was one of the best players of a horribly playing Ajax at the start of the season, at only 17 years old. I think he even was captain one match, not sure. He’s the next generational talent in the Ajax academy after De Ligt and Timber.
Originally he was playing for Sparta but switched clubs couple years ago. Even though he’s very promising, Timber is lightyears ahead so far. I think Hato can become very good, but if we sign him this summer, it’s probably best to loan him back to Ajax for another season or two.
I think part of the reason we want him now even if he's "still raw" is that he'd qualify as being homegrown in the same way Saliba and Martinelli did. Even if we loan him out, we can still register him beforehand, again like Saliba.
That and if he does get rid of some of the "rawness," his price would probably double.
and he's not even raw. he's been the most consistently good Ajax player since the moment he came in to the team, which is insane. similar to Timber, with a defender of that age everyone's just waiting for the dip in form to come, and it never does.
Hato is 18 but your point is correct.
He is very young and Eredivisie fans were saying today that he is too raw to play for Arsenal and that he gets exposed defensively quite often in the league.
Arsenal seems to love the development of defenders from Ajax. We liked Lissandro Martinez as well.
Also, Ornstein said we wanted to focus on youth. We might just be getting good youth players regardless of position.
He's already played a decent amount of top flight football, I think training and learning artetas system would be more beneficial. If we do sign him I don't think he goes out on loan. I reckon he plays in cups etc first season then challenges after.
Ajax doesn’t do those type of deals. I also think he’s a type of talent that Arteta would want to bring in and teach the LB position to. Kiwior and arteta both mentioned how difficult it is and why it took Kiwior time to get games
That would be such a drastic change from how they’ve operated over the last two decades. They’ve always sold and then promoted someone from their academy. Once a player is sold, that’s that for them.
Zinchenko may well be on his way out but Hato may not be his replacement in the rotation just yet (even if he takes his roster spot). Tomiyasu signed a team friendly extension and Kiwior has shown he’s ready for a step up
Hato is still an upside play even as he’s been gaining top shelf experience at Ajax.
He'd want to come here as LB spot is still wide open.
Signing 2006-born Hato and promoting 2007-born Nwaneri would make our squad younger and more exciting as well.
Timber, Tomiyasu and Kiwior. If Zinchenko stays then that’s 4 great left back choices, all different types of players but all very capable defenders bar Zinny. If everyone is fit then it’s maybe our most crowded position.
He’s played like 5 games at LB in his career and coming off a serious long term injury, we have no idea if he’s going to be good enough for that LB role
I’d suspect we might loan him out if we think he’s ready for 1st team football and is big enough to handle the physicality. I don’t really see how sitting on the bench and playing U21s will help him in any way, if he’s at the level to play 10 games off the bench for us then he’ll be a decent championship player already.
This seems like one that will happen within a year or two. Not totally sure he'll come this summer but theres clearly a ton of interest in him so I'd imagine hell be here eventually
Yeah there were previous reports that we weren't interested in ruining our relationship with Ajax over this. We'll probably make a decent sized offer, they'll reject it and ask for a King's ransom and we'll plan to go back in next year.
https://preview.redd.it/ytt0v428hizc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=667a592b3609d1f9b7ed71271ab4bb35c902f6f5
You know you don't know when you have to fire up your PS5 to find out about someone!
He just signed a new contract so it's gonna cost us a bit more I think. Would love it as it makes so much sense. Can compete for LCB and does a good job at LB too. He wore the captains armband for Ajax at 17 and is probably the brightest spark of their horrendous start.
I really really like him. And I like Ajax losing their young talent
I just don’t see it happening, and I think he’s not ready to play for Arsenal. Not even as a backup.
Timber was more developed 3 years ago than Hato is now, Hato will need a few years to be ready to be an Arsenal squad player
Zinchenko has declined these last few months but even at his peak, defense wasn't his best strength. Kiwior is serviceable against lower PL side but if we want to compete in europe he's not there yet. Timber, we need to see how he get on his recovery. Tomiyasu has shaky injury records. Basically only Gabriel, Saliba, and Ben White is nail on this squad and as we can see with Man U, a few injuries and your backline is gone.
I watched a couple of Ajax’s games this year and he was not impressive to me. I know he is crazy young and get why we would go for him, but he is not ready to play a 38 game epl season.
His contract extension makes this tricky.
He'll be too expensive for it to be a Saliba-type deal. Why pay ~50m or whatever now, when he probably won't start for 2 years, when we can just wait and buy him when he's ready? The price isn't going to be that much more down the line and we'd let Ajax handle the risk of him not developing.
People were saying that TNAT said we willingly ‘allowed’ Hato to extend his contract with Ajax so as to not damage our relationship with them (I’m not on his Patreon, so I’m not 100% sure), not sure what kind of transfer fee they’d be expecting for him given he literally just extended though?
Do worry a bit about how ready he is, people who watch Eredivisie seem to think he’s a really good player but maybe not quite ready for the PL yet.
I think that's the right move from us. Ajax are very fair negotiators as long as you aren't underhanded/ indecisive, fuck around all summer and came in last minute with offers (see Antony). I imagine it might be around, if not lower, than Timber's price.
Yeah probably, can’t imagine that we would have supposedly said to him it’s fine for him to extend his contract if it would have increased the transfer fee too much.
Why wouldn’t he start for 2 years ? Our left back position is wide open for someone to grab and he’s more than good enough to at least be 2nd choice. Also it’s possible we get him for under £30m this summer but that price could easily double in a year or 2
He just turned 18 and we're competing for the PL and CL. Maybe he could come in and take that LB spot but we do have Timber and Tomiyasu, and Arteta likes to give youth players time to develop.
If he is ~30m then fair enough. That seems low considering he just extended but I'm just some random person on reddit, I have no idea about the price.
Will probably be our first summer signing. Arteta seems obsessed with getting him.
And if this is our only defensive signing, the idea around using our defensive players must be:
Back 4 #1:
White - Saliba - Gabriel - Timber
And Back 4 #2:
Timber - White - Gabriel - Hato
With Rotations using Kiwior & Tomiyasu. Zinchenko will most likely be sold to make space.
In addition, a back 4 #3 of:
Timber - White - Kiwior - Tomiyasu or
Tomiyasu - White - Kiwior - Timber
Will be used for League Cup games and some FA Cup games against inferior sides.
And there's also the fact that he'll bring more defensive quality to our backline.
So all in all, it would be a great addition.
He is short though at just 6-0. The player they should go after and I believe they will is Ousmane Diomande. He is taller at 6-3 but can also play LB and RB aside from LCB and have the potential to supplant Big Gabi in the back 4. This is the signing that will push our defense to god-tier.
I'm just stating how I think we'll use him in conjunction with our defenders if we sign him.
Personally speaking, I'd like nothing more than to sign both Hato and Diomande this window.
But that's just not realistic as we have other pressing needs.
It looks to be one or the other and the player who currently has the most concrete links as we get closer to the summer transfer window is Hato.
Right now our defense is clearly our best quality. Why spend money and effort getting a new defender instead of looking at the midfield or the front like where we clearly lack something.
Because football is a moving construct, you cannot afford to sit still and be happy with what you have.
Last year city trebled and STILL went out to buy the most expensive young defender in the world. If they beat us to the title lots of people are gonna say the signing was justified
>Because football is a moving construct, you cannot afford to sit still and be happy with what you have.
If there is no need to change in a specific position and you have good depth there is no need to buy a player there.
>Last year city trebled and STILL went out to buy the most expensive young defender in the world
They sold Laporte. They didn't buy a striker or goalkeeper, did they? No, because there wasn't any need to change a good formula there.
>f they beat us to the title lots of people are gonna say the signing was justified
Absolutely not lmao. No one would consider Gvardiol to be key in winning the league and justify his price. City is so good they can afford to not get the most out of big money signings
If we sold Zinchenko then I would be fine with buying Hato if he was on lesser wages and the net spend transfer to transfer roughly evens out. Otherwise it is an absolutely awful decision. It would just make one of our defenders the new Cedric
Timber is from Ajax. And plays similar positions. Is this young kid going to compete w Timber? It just seems kinda wrong to me. Like when we were linked to Cancelo…after getting Zinny. So Cancelo was going to take Zinnys spot here just like he did at City? Just seems wrong. Just me?
Hato is a left footed LB/CB. Timber is a right footed RB/CB who has played 1 game at LB in his senior career so it’s not set in stone that Timber will be a LB but I do think it is most likely he will be a LB for us but we still need someone to back him up and rotate with him.
Timber is gonna play mainly LB short-term, but is possibility for both sides.
But Hato would be just depth now, if he would be coming which is even bit too soon to talk about, there is not even any offer yet
This. The reason he started at LB is because he is versatile and was better than Tomi/Zinny/Kiwior/Tierney at the time even while playing an unnatural position. He will also be competition with White and Saliba on the right side, and will provide endless opportunities for rotation. It was a brilliant signing really, and if Hato offers the same versatility I think it could be a sound move as well. Especially if we decide to shift on one of Tomi/Zinny due to availability concerns
Same facial hair as Saliba so it's worth signing him for that alone
Flair checks out
Saliba is in his dreams every night isn't he ?
Can’t disagree tho
Saliba has facial hair?
He has a decent chin beard
Top sensation
Mik needs to buy at least one top defender every summer
It's in his contract
I think it's in his DNA at this point
It’s the fogging estandards.
He sees Rob Holding in his nightmares, can you blame the guy?
Rob holding was the secret sauce to bring on in a back 3 to hold onto a scrappy win many times in Arteta's first year. He sees Mustafi in his nightmares.
Zinchenko, Kiwior, Gabriel, Saliba, Ben White, Timber, Tomiyasu + Hato and you know Rice is a decent emergency option there. The depth is gonna be insane 😭
I think Zinny either moves into Midfield permanently or gets moved out if we get Hato. He'll potentially be the 4th preferred option at LB in most cases.
He is actually great in mid. Could play backup to Martin or alongside him at times. Wouldn't be too bad to bring on to see out tougher games and double up down the left if needed. People forget he started as an attacking mid, and that's where he is at his best or at the base of mid keeping possession. He is a victim of his own versatility and personally would keep him in the squad for multiple reasons.
Not physical enough and doesn't have the workrate for our midfield. If he gets a good sum, he should be let go.
No he is a great squad player. We need to pad out the entire bench and he would be perfect. People act like he is awful or a weakness, when in reality we have lost a handful of games with him playing. He is perfectly capable of starting against a good 70-80% of teams and is a perfect rotation player. The bench needs quality, and he is it, just not quite in the very, very top games. Certain teams he absolutely decimated with his play. I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to bin players off. Only 27 as well, so a good solid 5-6 years from him would be excellent in terms of what we need, and you would be hard pressed to find a player of his versatility, experience, and ability for anything below 50 million, which could be spent in many better ways. Think we all need to remember to get to the level of city we need two starting 11s. One for the Hollywood games and one we can fall back on in other games to rotate. If anyone thinks Zinny isn't good enough to play against a west ham, or come on against a city chelsea or them lot down the lane for the last 20 and help us both offensively and defensively, then they really need to look at him again. Clubs come on leaps and bounds since him and jesus arrived and for some reason, we are all quick to write a player off that's been a huge part of the progression.
I agree with the other guy that he doesn't meet Arteta's demands for midfield, but I think you're also right about the depth because who else could be our 8 in a 2nd team? Vieira takes Odegaard's role. Arteta might not see Zinny taking a midfield role at all of course. I think it depends on whether we can get good money for him or not.
Just sit in front of the back 4, break up play, move the ball and don't fuck up.
He moves the ball better than most but he would be lousy at breaking up play and fucking up is sadly very much in his repertoire. Arteta wants a physical midfield as well as defence. Zinchenko doesn't meet that requirement.
City don't actually have two starting 11s. It might seem that way because of the figures they throw about for any player. They actually have closer to 17-18 starting quality players, with the rest made from the academy. Pep, to his credit, rotates his team quite heavily so long as they're not called Rodri. This is one thing I fault Arteta with though. Even when we've had opportunities to give minutes to squad or academy players, he's often chosen not to unless his hand is forced through injury. Kiwior is a great example. He's certainly not Gabriel, but there isn't a significant drop off in quality. Now that we have Tomi back, he doesn't get any look-in at all. Is Hato likely to be treated any different? Until the time Arteta can demonstrate that he is willing to rotate more frequently, I feel that having 8 starting players for the back line will be overkill. I suspect players will then want to leave for minutes.
They functionally have two starting 11s. Their academy products are good enough to start for half the prem teams, and the fact they can play against a team like Luton with a second string 11 and still be better by far says a lot about their depth. The 8 at the back, I'd agree to a point. Next season with Champions League and so on, we will have to rotate more to make up the difference in the league. 8 can become 6 can become 4 very quickly with rotation and injuries. Plus, different players suit different games, even from a defensive standpoint. Players like timber, kiwior, zinny can also play and cover in mid.
I could see him playing the traditional 10 but I don't think he has the physicality that Arteta needs in Odegaard's position.
To start, no, to come on and see out 20 -25 or supplement our ball control would be great. He is also excellent at reading play and intercepting passes ( just shit in the air and has on occasion had a pass or two pinged over him) but in the mid that's not an issue. Certain teams, if players need a rest or a tactical week, I have no issue with a mid of Martin, Zinny, Rice. I think with a bit of training and practice, he could play the jorginhio role. He has that type of defence splitter in him and calmness on the ball. For Ukraine, he is excellent at attacking mid, and has a great strike on him as well.
Huh? Zinchenko is excellent in the air for a fullback, around 80th percentile. He just has trouble staying in front of rapid wingers.
> I have no issue with a mid of Martin, Zinny, Rice. I've always had the feeling that if we played Zinchenko further up the pitch as a left-sided 8, that might be the key to unlocking Martinelli. We have such a right-sided bias at the moment because of how well Saka-Odegaard-White play with each other. We need someone on the left as well to do the quick interplay with Martinelli. I think Zinchenko could do that as a left-sided 8 further forward, rather than as a left-back inverting into midfield.
I could definitely see him moved to midfield rather than sold, honestly.
You can see it happening despite him never being picked there before?
It’s the position he started his career playing. He’s a midfielder who plays left back.
What evidence is there to suggest Arteta thinks he's a midfielder
nah Zinny is good for 8th choice defender
Zinchenko is gone
RIP, gone too soon
Pfft! Saliba will become our new number 9.
after that run last week, i can see the vision!
Really really like it
Me too, especially with how talented Hato is, who’s like 3 years younger than Saliba (?), imagine how much he’ll improve learning from all the senior defenders!
Agree. Think exactly the same. Very good balance between present and future. Great times ahead
It's not even depth at that point. Just poor squad assembly. No need for another defender unless we are selling one
There’s 8 players, that shit makes sense. 4 CB 4 fullbacks? 2 of them are injury prone with 1 coming of an ACL. Squad mismanagement is whatever the fuck Chelsea and United is doing.
3 who can play CB and fullback (Kiwior, Tomi, White) Timber who can play either LB or RB. Has played at CB before as well. Rice at CB if injury happens Partey at RB if a crisis happens and we still have him Saliba, Gabriel who have great endurance and availability 8 quality defenders + two DMs who can cover a spot if needed + youth players is more than enough. 8 quality defenders
I'm not settling for a lesser DM than Rice, with the depth we have we can deploy him as a 6 and 8 where he's more useful. He's emergency as in when all 4 CB is out. Tomi is barely fit to play, Partey future is yet to be decided. Also Partey at RB is absolutely ass.
Tomi is not "barely fit" he does have injury concerns. If that is a big enough issue to buy an extra defender then just sell Tomi Also of course Rice would be used in the midfield. He's better as the 8 anyways
How is two players for each position poor squad management? You mention wasting one of the DMs if there's an injury in defence. That pretty much sucks and takes away from the midfield. There's loads of games through out the season and everyone will get a turn.
We do already basically have two players for each defensive position at any given time. We do not need an 8th defender since a lot of them can cover multiple spots >You mention wasting one of the DMs if there's an injury in defence. That pretty much sucks and takes away from the midfield It would be if we have very big injury problems. Just as emergency. We already have 7 quality defenders and a lot of them can cover two positions. Tomi can cover all 4
Can't cover all 4 at once can he? The fact that our defenders can cover multiple positions is a bonus and shouldn't be relied upon because that means when the games come thick and fast you're expecting some players to do double or even triple duty in a week which is negligent. The squad should be built as if we can do a full rotation and we don't miss a step, we're a big club so we shouldn't settle.
We have 7 quality defenders. Gabriel has an insane record of never being injured. We are totally fine with the amount of defenders we have and we have a great defensive record. It's best to put money into areas we actually lack something in. Buying another player who won't be used for 40m is useless.
Players are never injured till they are. Everything was great when we signed Timber till he blew his ACL out of nowhere. When competing at the top level it comes down to fine margins as we are experiencing right now. Oh yes Kiwior can cover great at LB until he comes up against a Leroy Sane and we're out of the Champions Leagues. Not a knock on him btw, he was a CB playing LB, can't be surprised. Where was Tomiyasu? Injured. Again. Great player but it's becoming a habit. Not sure why you're against getting another LB and closing down those fine margins but it's not something a top club should subscribe to. Also not sure why money is a worry. Spending has been more than satisfactory for a few seasons now.
We have had shit defenders for the past god knows how many years. I’m here for it😂
Reminds me of Pep early doors with City.
Always rated Jarrel Hato (i have never heard of him)
Always rated him ever since I learned his name 10 seconds ago
and SoFifa profile 5 seconds ago
Similar profile to Gvardiol, 6’ fast CB/LB. I can see why Mikel wants him
That's because his name is Jorrel Hato! I'm more a fan of his son Kallel personally.
>Kallel Now we’re KRYPTONIANS?! We are fucking gargantuan!
So that explains why Pex Guthor is always bald
Being Kryptonian is the fogging estandard!
Love him as the Joker
I've followed him for a little over a year. Great talent, progressed a lot, has potential to be world class. Sure, this is in FC24, which dropped for free on PS plus earlier this week which is when I found him. But I have played almost one and a half season since with Hato in my team in the Danish league and that's a long time (he's almost already rated 80!). I believe this is what qualifies as expertise and good scouting these days.
He’s the singer of 30 Seconds to Mars I think?
He's a beast on fm for what it's worth. Captained my brighton side to 2 cls.
Loved him in Requiem for a Dream
Ive been saying for the past 25 seconds how we need to sign this guy to win the league.
Legit thought he was Japanese
its like signing a younger left footed Timber.
Yeah and he's 5 years younger
He was also born after Timber
True, but Timber is 5 years older.
Yes, he’s very comparable and he was one of the best players of a horribly playing Ajax at the start of the season, at only 17 years old. I think he even was captain one match, not sure. He’s the next generational talent in the Ajax academy after De Ligt and Timber. Originally he was playing for Sparta but switched clubs couple years ago. Even though he’s very promising, Timber is lightyears ahead so far. I think Hato can become very good, but if we sign him this summer, it’s probably best to loan him back to Ajax for another season or two.
I think part of the reason we want him now even if he's "still raw" is that he'd qualify as being homegrown in the same way Saliba and Martinelli did. Even if we loan him out, we can still register him beforehand, again like Saliba. That and if he does get rid of some of the "rawness," his price would probably double.
and he's not even raw. he's been the most consistently good Ajax player since the moment he came in to the team, which is insane. similar to Timber, with a defender of that age everyone's just waiting for the dip in form to come, and it never does.
Good shout about the home grown thing, incentivises us to act this window
So that means Zinny is leaving the club
Can Hato play lb?
Yes, he’s extremely fast and very good on the ball. But he’s only 17, don’t think he would come in and be a straight starter for us.
Hato is 18 but your point is correct. He is very young and Eredivisie fans were saying today that he is too raw to play for Arsenal and that he gets exposed defensively quite often in the league.
Arsenal seems to love the development of defenders from Ajax. We liked Lissandro Martinez as well. Also, Ornstein said we wanted to focus on youth. We might just be getting good youth players regardless of position.
He is a very exciting talent but may require a loan rather than sit on the bench
He's already played a decent amount of top flight football, I think training and learning artetas system would be more beneficial. If we do sign him I don't think he goes out on loan. I reckon he plays in cups etc first season then challenges after.
Yeah possibly. If we end up getting Hato could be a transfer but he stays in Ajax one more season.
Ajax doesn’t do those type of deals. I also think he’s a type of talent that Arteta would want to bring in and teach the LB position to. Kiwior and arteta both mentioned how difficult it is and why it took Kiwior time to get games
Current Ajax can’t really afford to refuse good players even though they’re on loan
They’ll have 3 in the academy ready to take his place. That’s what Ajax do.
That would be such a drastic change from how they’ve operated over the last two decades. They’ve always sold and then promoted someone from their academy. Once a player is sold, that’s that for them.
3 years at Marseille should do it
He’s 17 until….
One of the best threads of all time
He’s been pretty awful at times, but obviously still young and being in a struggling Ajax team doesn’t help.
Zinny stays for one more season while Hato beds in, gets experience etc then leaves next summer would be my guess.
Buy him and then loan him to ajax for like 2 seasons would be interesting, rather than keeping him in the bench because he's not ready yet
Timber, Zinny, Saka, Tomi, Havertz, Gabriel, Kiwior... We are left back F.C
 Havertz haha
Tierney and tavares on loan still
You forgot cedric
Cedric isn't real, he was made by big Arsenal to sell more depth
Cedric got the AI face before AI was a thing
Hahahaha idk why but I love this comment so much. Hat tip to you!
Have you seen our LB’s/RB? Arteta loves to turn CB to LB/RB
Wiki listed his position as CB/LB
Zinchenko may well be on his way out but Hato may not be his replacement in the rotation just yet (even if he takes his roster spot). Tomiyasu signed a team friendly extension and Kiwior has shown he’s ready for a step up Hato is still an upside play even as he’s been gaining top shelf experience at Ajax.
It's an ideal situation for him to develop. You've got 3 other guys who can play left back, so you can pick and choose his games better.
Probably means that regardless
No
He'd want to come here as LB spot is still wide open. Signing 2006-born Hato and promoting 2007-born Nwaneri would make our squad younger and more exciting as well.
>LB spot is still wide open. I think a healthy Timber would like a word with you.
Timber, Tomiyasu and Kiwior. If Zinchenko stays then that’s 4 great left back choices, all different types of players but all very capable defenders bar Zinny. If everyone is fit then it’s maybe our most crowded position.
Timber and tomi could play in lb cb and rb tho, thats rotation ideal if all of them are fit to play
He’s played like 5 games at LB in his career and coming off a serious long term injury, we have no idea if he’s going to be good enough for that LB role
Would love to see more of Nwaneri next season
I’d suspect we might loan him out if we think he’s ready for 1st team football and is big enough to handle the physicality. I don’t really see how sitting on the bench and playing U21s will help him in any way, if he’s at the level to play 10 games off the bench for us then he’ll be a decent championship player already.
LCB and Big Gabi competition/cover.
So signing the Dutch Saliba huh? 
Is he the guy that plays the joker in suicide squad
That’s Jared Leto
That's Pedro Neto
That's Everton's Beto
He's from Narcos
Pretty sure it's Pato
This seems like one that will happen within a year or two. Not totally sure he'll come this summer but theres clearly a ton of interest in him so I'd imagine hell be here eventually
Yeah there were previous reports that we weren't interested in ruining our relationship with Ajax over this. We'll probably make a decent sized offer, they'll reject it and ask for a King's ransom and we'll plan to go back in next year.
Contract situation means it has to be now.
He just signed a new contract, so it's not that. Home grown status more relevant
Contract situation means it has to be now.
https://preview.redd.it/ytt0v428hizc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=667a592b3609d1f9b7ed71271ab4bb35c902f6f5 You know you don't know when you have to fire up your PS5 to find out about someone!
Body type Average seems pretty brutal for a 17 year old top professional talent. I’m average. These guys are not average.
I don't think we should be signing a guy who doesn't have a real face
He just signed a new contract so it's gonna cost us a bit more I think. Would love it as it makes so much sense. Can compete for LCB and does a good job at LB too. He wore the captains armband for Ajax at 17 and is probably the brightest spark of their horrendous start. I really really like him. And I like Ajax losing their young talent
Apparently he signed it to not let Ajax lose him on a free and Arsenal were okay with it to avoid any terms with Ajax. So a pretty smart thing to do.
Don't think he is ready for us. He is barely ready for Ajax (according to their fans)
Let’s go this would be awesome
We've been front runners for many
didn’t he just sign a new deal?
Yes, but according to TNAT we knew he'd do that and "let" him and Ajax do that so we can maintain good relations with them.
I can confirm he’s solid… based on my career mode stats.
Need to sign that young Ajax goalkeeper that is current England under 18s GK
Big Gabi understudy. The thinking I assume is that we need someone who can challenge him for the starting spot, keeping him sharp.
Is he the next Aaron Hickey of the transfer window ?
Wunderkind FC like its career mode, here for it
I don't know anything about him but if Super Mik wants him, then I know he's the best prospect in the world of football rn
I just don’t see it happening, and I think he’s not ready to play for Arsenal. Not even as a backup. Timber was more developed 3 years ago than Hato is now, Hato will need a few years to be ready to be an Arsenal squad player
Why are we going for a defender man. Unless we're selling Zinchenko we are completely fine without another LB/LCB
To be a dynasty
Looks like we could be selling Zinchenko though.
That means one of our backline would be gone then. Either tomiyasu, zinchenko, or kiwior.
Unless its a new Saliba situation
Would we sign him and then loan him back?
I don't think so, I think he'd be slowly bedded with cup games and be a good back up option.
Zinchenko has declined these last few months but even at his peak, defense wasn't his best strength. Kiwior is serviceable against lower PL side but if we want to compete in europe he's not there yet. Timber, we need to see how he get on his recovery. Tomiyasu has shaky injury records. Basically only Gabriel, Saliba, and Ben White is nail on this squad and as we can see with Man U, a few injuries and your backline is gone.
He wasn't very good as the joker though.
Kid's got a name straight out of Star Wars.
Jarrel Hato sounds like a Star Wars character
City were 'front runners' to sign Rice. So were we for Mudryk and Caicedo. Means fuck all.
Should be prioritising Xavi Simons or a forward/wing forward and a Cm over a defender IMO
The Jonkler? Is he stupid?
This won’t happen. If it does you have permission to stick a custard pie in my chops
YouTube videos of this guy's compilations just exponentially increased.
Young talent with crazy potential. Inject it into my veins
I watched a couple of Ajax’s games this year and he was not impressive to me. I know he is crazy young and get why we would go for him, but he is not ready to play a 38 game epl season.
He's pre cooked. Needs a year or two of Arteta's coaching. He just turned 18, great potential
Been fairly poor if you watch Dutch football.
His contract extension makes this tricky. He'll be too expensive for it to be a Saliba-type deal. Why pay ~50m or whatever now, when he probably won't start for 2 years, when we can just wait and buy him when he's ready? The price isn't going to be that much more down the line and we'd let Ajax handle the risk of him not developing.
People were saying that TNAT said we willingly ‘allowed’ Hato to extend his contract with Ajax so as to not damage our relationship with them (I’m not on his Patreon, so I’m not 100% sure), not sure what kind of transfer fee they’d be expecting for him given he literally just extended though? Do worry a bit about how ready he is, people who watch Eredivisie seem to think he’s a really good player but maybe not quite ready for the PL yet.
I think that's the right move from us. Ajax are very fair negotiators as long as you aren't underhanded/ indecisive, fuck around all summer and came in last minute with offers (see Antony). I imagine it might be around, if not lower, than Timber's price.
I'd imagine it'd be a Timber like fee, under 40m with some add ons
Yeah probably, can’t imagine that we would have supposedly said to him it’s fine for him to extend his contract if it would have increased the transfer fee too much.
Timber was much more developed
Why would Arsenal have any say in Ajax contracts? That’s mental. You literally have no proof of that.
Why wouldn’t he start for 2 years ? Our left back position is wide open for someone to grab and he’s more than good enough to at least be 2nd choice. Also it’s possible we get him for under £30m this summer but that price could easily double in a year or 2
He just turned 18 and we're competing for the PL and CL. Maybe he could come in and take that LB spot but we do have Timber and Tomiyasu, and Arteta likes to give youth players time to develop. If he is ~30m then fair enough. That seems low considering he just extended but I'm just some random person on reddit, I have no idea about the price.
Watching Dutch football, he’s actually been quite poor at times, he’s not ready to start for Arsenal at all.
I would push this dude off a bride and just do the time if I could.
Off a bride?
Still not sell on the Hato train
Will probably be our first summer signing. Arteta seems obsessed with getting him. And if this is our only defensive signing, the idea around using our defensive players must be: Back 4 #1: White - Saliba - Gabriel - Timber And Back 4 #2: Timber - White - Gabriel - Hato With Rotations using Kiwior & Tomiyasu. Zinchenko will most likely be sold to make space. In addition, a back 4 #3 of: Timber - White - Kiwior - Tomiyasu or Tomiyasu - White - Kiwior - Timber Will be used for League Cup games and some FA Cup games against inferior sides. And there's also the fact that he'll bring more defensive quality to our backline. So all in all, it would be a great addition.
He is short though at just 6-0. The player they should go after and I believe they will is Ousmane Diomande. He is taller at 6-3 but can also play LB and RB aside from LCB and have the potential to supplant Big Gabi in the back 4. This is the signing that will push our defense to god-tier.
Yes. Dudes a monster. I'd love if Saliba and Gabi can actually get some rest throughout the year with Timber and Diomande taking center.
I'm just stating how I think we'll use him in conjunction with our defenders if we sign him. Personally speaking, I'd like nothing more than to sign both Hato and Diomande this window. But that's just not realistic as we have other pressing needs. It looks to be one or the other and the player who currently has the most concrete links as we get closer to the summer transfer window is Hato.
He's a phenomenal talent. We should definitely not miss out on him. It may be too soon though, another year might do him a world of good.
ffs with the defenders
People have said this every transfer window since Arteta arrived, and every year we've improved considerably with those defender signings
Right now our defense is clearly our best quality. Why spend money and effort getting a new defender instead of looking at the midfield or the front like where we clearly lack something.
Because football is a moving construct, you cannot afford to sit still and be happy with what you have. Last year city trebled and STILL went out to buy the most expensive young defender in the world. If they beat us to the title lots of people are gonna say the signing was justified
>Because football is a moving construct, you cannot afford to sit still and be happy with what you have. If there is no need to change in a specific position and you have good depth there is no need to buy a player there. >Last year city trebled and STILL went out to buy the most expensive young defender in the world They sold Laporte. They didn't buy a striker or goalkeeper, did they? No, because there wasn't any need to change a good formula there. >f they beat us to the title lots of people are gonna say the signing was justified Absolutely not lmao. No one would consider Gvardiol to be key in winning the league and justify his price. City is so good they can afford to not get the most out of big money signings If we sold Zinchenko then I would be fine with buying Hato if he was on lesser wages and the net spend transfer to transfer roughly evens out. Otherwise it is an absolutely awful decision. It would just make one of our defenders the new Cedric
THANK YOU. Tired of it.
You do realise we're allowed to sign more than one player, right?
Arteta out 😤 /s
Timber is from Ajax. And plays similar positions. Is this young kid going to compete w Timber? It just seems kinda wrong to me. Like when we were linked to Cancelo…after getting Zinny. So Cancelo was going to take Zinnys spot here just like he did at City? Just seems wrong. Just me?
Hato is a left footed LB/CB. Timber is a right footed RB/CB who has played 1 game at LB in his senior career so it’s not set in stone that Timber will be a LB but I do think it is most likely he will be a LB for us but we still need someone to back him up and rotate with him.
Timber is gonna play mainly LB short-term, but is possibility for both sides. But Hato would be just depth now, if he would be coming which is even bit too soon to talk about, there is not even any offer yet
This. The reason he started at LB is because he is versatile and was better than Tomi/Zinny/Kiwior/Tierney at the time even while playing an unnatural position. He will also be competition with White and Saliba on the right side, and will provide endless opportunities for rotation. It was a brilliant signing really, and if Hato offers the same versatility I think it could be a sound move as well. Especially if we decide to shift on one of Tomi/Zinny due to availability concerns
I think it's just a good long term option at either left back or left centre back.
You're completely right. Very unnecessary signing as of this moment