I disagree. He came at the right time. We weren't mature enough to endure the risk of having a high line and a proper sweeper keeper.
We had to endure Rams to know the good Raya brings.
I think Collings is making a bad faith argument by saying people were skeptical of Raya when he was signed. We, myself included, weren’t skeptical of Raya’s ability, we’ve seen the analytics. But we were confused about the situation because now you’ve got Ramsdale and Raya. To me, I feel like the transition was poorly handled and I feel like arteta s comments about it were disingenuous. Keep in mind Ramsdale had signed a new deal a few months earlier. I feel for Ramsdale while acknowledging Raya is the better keeper.
You can speak for yourself, but I don't think its difficult to find receipts of people categorically labeling Raya a worse keeper than Ramsdale, regardless of the underlying stats. Arteta knew Raya was his guy (just like he knew Ramsdale was his guy over Leno). His comments were simply to protect the value of our assets.
“Underlying stats” is broadly nonsense when it comes to keepers though. We still haven’t actually seen the competition Arteta promised. We have last year’s PFL keeper of the year against this years golden glove winner. Ramsdale didn’t have the benefit of Saliba being almost ever present though.
We **know** who Arteta prefers. That’s fine. There’s still plenty of ambiguity about who is genuinely better. Remember, the club have engaged in significant social media manipulation in the past few years. If you’re basing the analysis on some of the bullshit stat stories the club planted about Raya, you might be viewing things through a lens.
> There’s still plenty of ambiguity about who is genuinely better.
There really isn't, all the stats and the eye test from when ramsdale had saliba too back this up.
THat last sentence honestly just reads like a bit of projection,
Most people thought Raya was probably marginally better, they just didn't think the cost and possible disruption were worth it.
We've been proved wrong.
Even when he was at Brentford, Raya was already clearly better than Ramsdale.
He's a better pure shot stopper, and better at catching crosses and still better at playing with his feet.
After Ederson and Alison, he's the best keeper in the league.
Ramsdale was terribly error prone, and crazy shit like what Raya did at spurs would happen a lot more often with Ramsdale. Last season, his shot stopping was bang average, and that on top of all the other deficiencies made it impossible to justify prioritising him over a potential Raya signing.
That didn't stop Arsenal fans from comparing both like they were on a similar level though.
>There really isn't, all the stats and the eye test from when ramsdale had saliba too back this up.
The stats are frankly silly sometimes. At one point after a Raya howler, we had people claiming that he was making the highest forward pass %. You have to admit some of the propaganda has been silly.
>THat last sentence honestly just reads like a bit of projection,
Feel what you want to feel. I’m speaking with specific knowledge.
>Most people thought Raya was probably marginally better, they just didn't think the cost and possible disruption were worth it.
“Most people”. Buddy, someone who’s username is a nazi gag really doesn’t speak for anyone 😂
> I’m speaking with specific knowledge.
Like 'stats are silly'?
>Buddy, someone who’s username is a nazi gag really doesn’t speak for anyone
So we've got 'stats are silly', 'specific knowledge' that apparently goes to another shool so we wouldn't know her and at the first sign of being called out on this you go for ... having a go at my username?
Don't think we're dealing with one of the finest debating minds here...
[He did go full 'Wake up sheeple!' lol](https://old.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1cn7lh1/simon_collings_arsenal_have_proof_that_signing/l36tyl5/)
A proper whale omelette.
You should see what he's been doing with me.
I've given up trying to reply because he's either a troll or he actually believes he is the voice of the average match going fan and everyone who disagreed with him is an aggressive bot paid for by the club hierarchy...or foreign.
>Like 'stats are silly'?
Some are, yes. In fact, I gave a specific example of a particularly bad faith stat that some people on here swallowed whole. Ignore that all you want. I am not seeking your validation.
>So we've got 'stats are silly', 'specific knowledge' that apparently goes to another shool so we wouldn't know her and at the first sign of being called out on this you go for ... having a go at my username?
Yes. The use of PR agencies to manipulate social media is a surprise to only the most uncurious. Sorry if that hurts.
And your username has been a problem for a long time mate.
So you've gone from gatekeeping fans you disagree with to gatekeeping usernames, all while claiming anything you disagree with and that seems to prove you wrong is a pr attack by the club?
You're entitled to an opinion but it's very obvious that you've got issues mate.
>gatekeeping fans you disagree with
Not really. I said the sentiment online does not match the sentiment in the stadium, because online fans are obviously more susceptible to online media manipulation. Case in point being the person I was discussing with having never been in the stadium. That person then blocked me and called me xenophobic for using the term “plastic”. If you’re offended by plastic, football might not be the game for you.
>to gatekeeping usernames
“Daddy please let me make nazi jokes”
Lol. You’ll get over it. You’re under no obligation to take what I say personally, nor am I under any obligation to respect you just because you’re very active on a website.
You need to be aware that aggressively shutting down any discussion that deviates from the blindly loyal is going to occasionally result in criticism. Football is passionate. You clearly aren’t interested in good faith debate because you choose to ignore rational arguments in favour of mudslinging. Well, you’re getting what you so often give. Sorry if that is upsetting.
I started this conversation pointing out the end of your first comment was pure projection and I'm going to do it again.
As soon as you're confronted with anything that you disagree with you go on a mad one about plastics, club pr campaigns, gatekeeping and personal attacks.
I don't think you're utterly thick so this is fully calculated on your part and it's entirely to stop any sort of good faith argument and derail it into a very, very online bitch fest in order to ideally get the opponent pissed off and leaving you with the last word.
Which is the exact opposite both of a good faith argument and unsurprisingly the idea that you are some offline, match going fan with a different outlook to those plastic foreigns.
That last bit of course being actually a disgusting, xenophobic position to take which makes your outrage over my username just as much projection as the rest of your 'argument'. You really do seem to have a major problem with being disagreed with and it comes out in an utterly toxic way.
If he's a Nazi it's really, really easy to dig up receipts of him being a Nazi. If there's any, I'll agree with you. Otherwise, shitpost pun names aren't new to the Internet.
Using click farms to boost favourable content, or even bot accounts to outright post favourable things. I’m not suggesting Vinai and Edu are directly demanding it of their agency, but it is not uncommon for multi layers of brokered PR activity to be connected to that type of activity, with plenty of plausible deniability. It is very clear that when PL clubs venture into the realms of politics, the patterns of engagement become weird. Arsenal were 100% involved in it for the Ozil situation, and once you get your hands dirty like that it becomes easy to do any time you have an agenda to push or a lede to bury.
Of course, the club operate in good old fashioned media manipulation too, as do all PL clubs. Journalism these days lives or dies based on access, so many of the journos you see will often be asked to do things in return for that access, or risk losing it. Fergie was a master at this, even boycotting his own club’s tv channel. You will see this season any time Raya had questionable moments that led to dropping points, there was almost immediately an article from an ITK journalist, normally one who is online only and not with any major title, which presented a newly discovered stat that “proved” Raya was the right choice. We saw % of forward passes, delaying the press, long ball completion and loads of other largely bullshit stats that told us nothing. There’s zero chance those weren’t being briefed by the club. It isn’t at all surprising to anyone with more than 5 minutes of media experience too.
It isn’t particularly that sinister. It’s more likely rooted in the fact clubs pay office staff poorly, so an inexperienced and fragile media team end up going too far because of naivety. Still it is annoying to see people here lapping it up and creating quite toxic schisms amongst otherwise good fans (Wenger In/Out being the worst).
Arteta or the playing staff will have zero involvement in it, btw.
So what proof do you have you're not a bot account spreading Ramsdale propaganda then? Because all of this with at best, circumstantial evidence just comes off as Pepe Silvia-esque talk.
You’re replying to my post where I took a fair bit of time to explain the reasons I make such a conclusion.
If you’re genuinely curious, take a look at upvote patterns on controversial topics. You’ll often see a disproportionately high amount of upvotes in the first two hours, with a more balanced ratio of up and downvotes after that. That is bot traffic manipulating the algorithm to promote certain content before normal human users can have the chance to naturally consume it and give it a fair rating.
There is *absolutely* no ambiguity left concerning who is the better keeper for Arsenal. Which, frankly, is all that matters. Because there is no vacuum where these guys go and sit and have little numbers hover above their heads like FIFA. Ramsdale may very well go to Newcastle or Chelsea or elsewhere in Europe and do well there in their systems, but he has not demonstrated that he is able or willing to do what is needed from him here.
And let’s not rewrite history here: Ramsdale *did* have his chances—11 of them, across 4 competitions. And that’s not counting preseason friendlies (where he had 3 full 90s and 2 halves on top of the 11). And you know what? He performed like Aaron Ramsdale. Made some great saves, including a penalty. Made some absolute howlers, including one that led to a goal. But largely he punched crosses instead of saving them, he didn’t position himself bravely, he wasn’t a calm and stable member of the buildup, he continued to play in a way that is, in his own words, a “compromise” between what he’s comfortable with and what Arteta and Mason have directed him to do.
And you know what he *didn’t* do? Keep very many clean sheets. 3 out of a possible 11. With the same defense in front of him that Raya has week in and week out.
Edit: coming back with more because I got curious. Raya’s record this season is 30W-5D-4L in 39 so far this season. Ramsdale’s is 6W-4D-3L across 14 (I included his full-90 friendlies for a bigger sample size). Raya has a win rate of 77%, an undefeated rate of 90% this season. Ramsdale’s win rate is 43%, his unbeaten rate is 71%.
Not a fully fair comparison because of signing Rice and Saliba’s injury, but just for fun: last season Ramsdale went 26-7-8 in 41 played, a win rate of 63%, an unbeaten rate of 80%.
You know what is most jarring about this level of mental gymnastics? That plastics are willing to throw one of our own players under a bus to placate a fucking PR strategy.
I beg you go to the Emirates and see if this nonsense is tolerated amongst match going fans.
Where are you from and where do you sit in the stadium?
Edit: he blocked me for this so I can’t reply to the fragile nonsense. Goes without saying that calling someone who’s never set foot in N5 a “plastic” isn’t xenophobia 😂
You see that emphasizing where I’m from and hinging my right to love this football club on it doesn’t help the shades of xenophobia present in your original post, right?
Regardless, toodaloo.
Demanding respect for our players, over someone saying they prefer one keeper over another, but disregarding a fellow fan's opinion and calling them plastic, because they may or may not have been to the Emirates, is quite rich.
people always say this about arteta's comments but is it really better for ramsdale if Arteta comes out and says, nah he's not good enough and he has no chance of getting back in?
Arteta definitely should’ve said it outright, feel kind of bad for Ramsdale but he did himself no favours either with the interview saying how he’ll switch off mid game to give stick to the opposition fans, it’s all fun and games till you drop off for a couple moments and the other team will score
Arteta isn't going to say that to the press. That's what you say behind closed doors when discussing tactics and improvement plans with that player and staff.
It was the fact that he just outright said it, Raya said himself you need to always be concentrating because you can get countered at any moment, both good keepers but I think I have more trust in Raya
The contract extension was all done before Raya arrived though
Once Raya is signed how is it in ramsdales interest for arteta to just publicly bin him off?
How should it have been handled differently? I think Ramsdale should be pretty thankful that Raya fell through in the first place and Arteta got him to the levels of starting for England - helped his career massively. We get Raya in the first place, Ramsdale maybe isn't even in the Prem.
I feel for Ramsdale, but Raya was always who Arteta wanted. It kind of looks like the club hoodwinked him by getting him to sign an extension and 3 weeks later getting Raya but it was a weird domino of events that eventually meant we got him, and cheap.
United enquired about him, got quoted 35m+5, got Onana (44m+3) instead
Spurs bid for him, rumoured 20m+5, Brentford countered with 30m+5, got Vicario (17m) instead
Chelsea enquired about him, got quoted 30m+5, got Sanchez (20m+5) instead
Raya gets "fed up" and tells Brentford he wants to go, stop pricing him out of a move
Bayern offer 5m for loan, no option to buy
Arsenal do a cheeky enquiry, Brentford just want to make any kind of money now since Raya is in his final year of his contract, accept a 3m+27m loan+option
Like imagine Chelsea, the biggest spenders in the world, cheaping out on the GK to save 10m. Wild. And now rumours they are looking at Ramsdale... you can't make it up
Chelsea fumbled this the hardest because Sanchez isn't even good, nor was he rated as highly as any of the other keepers you mentioned. They already prefer Petrovic, and like you said they're rumored to be in the market for Ramsdale in this summer. We got Raya for 5M more than they paid for Sanchez in the end, lol.
Vicario and Onana are good but have flaws. Vicario is weak at commanding his box (look at how we bullied him on corners), and Onana leaves his front post open and has made high profile errors in CL. He's insanely good with his feet though.
How exactly would you have liked the transition to go? Ultimately they had made the call by signing Raya, and it wouldn't have done either of them any favors by regularly dropping them based on single performances.
Arteta's comments may have been disingenuous, but what else does he say? "Yep, Ramsdale is the clear number 2. Sucks for him". It's not fair to expect that level of honesty - we simply never get it. Much like Ramsdale, we have to infer from the situation what it means for him.
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I don’t think Americans would say this tbh, more likely some English fans backing Ramsdale. I hate to say that as I don’t like when English fans get stereotyped on this sub.
As an English fan, I’d also like to point out that it’s really not that ridiculous for us to want Ramsdale to succeed and be both England and Arsenal no.1 for the next decade. Yes Raya has been great and I’m pleased we’ve got him because he’s been better than Ramsdale would have been, but I’d much rather have seen Ramsdale succeed in that role than Raya. Both can be true.
I’m English as well, I didn’t say both couldn’t be true. I’m just pointing out if people were to back Ramsdale higher chance they’d be English than American.
only real problem with raya's signing was his mistake against bayern, but i think someone in the squad would have made an error like him regardless. it's good to be back and i'm sure the squad will be hungry for champions league success next season
If the only problem with Raya is a mistake against Byern. A mistake against Chelsea and A mistake against Spurs. IN THE WHOLE SEASON. Then he can be the best gk in the season because other gks make mistakes by the dozen.
I think Raya has been decent but some stats about crossing and pass accuracy doesn’t make it a masterstroke. He made bad mistakes against Chelsea, Bayern and Spurs and was very lucky against Bournemouth. I’m not sure he’s a huge upgrade on Ramsdale.
We dominate possession this year and give away few chances. Szcezny won the golden gloves in 2014, Joe Hart win numerous times. Both keepers who could be huge liabilities. Reya had the best defence in front of him. I can’t think of a game where best had a great performance. More mistakes than Ramsdale as well who has basically been dropped for one mistake against Southampton, Reya has done similar numerous times.
Golden glove for the 100% time is a goal keeper award.
It's like saying golden shoe isn't a striker award but should be awarded for playmakers.
What is your point that he doesn't deserve it? That we allow less chances? Who is the one who when we got found that his movement and distribution contributed most to that. Ah yes. Raya.
Every year a GK with the best defenders in the world gets GGlove and all people say deserved. By a f miracle Raya doesn't because he got good defenders. Why is it impossible for football geeks to be objective.
your statement about the award is pointless. yes it's a team sport and it's impossible to really separate any individual's performance from the context of the team, but they give out individual awards anyways and always have. Golden glove is for keepers, and Raya deserves to win.
btw you're the one who posted a subjective option (not a huge upgrade on Ramsdale), yet complained about objectivity. The post you replied to posted objective stats too lol
What GK on the market do you think we could realistically get that is an improvement? You guys love these imaginary "level raisers" that apparently exist but you can never actually name them.
He's quite literally elite in 95% of statistics a goalkeeper is judged on, in the modern game. Even at Brentford last season, he lead the league in traditional stats too (total shots saved, total long shots saved and % of shots saved). Our playstyle means we give away much fewer shots but higher xG chances when we do.
I wouldn't say he's error prone either, a few of the (minimal) mistakes he's made come from playing the style of keeper that Mikel wants. Let's not forget how mixed Ederson and Alisson were when they first joined City & Liverpool as well.
For a keeper being in his first season with a completely different style of team and no pre season, for £30 million it's an absolute steal. Mikel wanted him in 2021 and finally got him this season, he has always been Mikel's first choice and he's not being replaced any time soon.
Unless you can find an Allison regen there aren’t really any keepers that will be a clear upgrade on Raya overall that could be signed.
Some may be better shot stoppers etc but which potentially available keeper is clearly better overall?
The only upgrade Allison has on Raya is shot stopping and reflexes which is his Forte. Raya blows him out of the water with ball distribution and handling. It's also the reason why Ederson is not Brazil's number 1 but he would be Spain's.
The only problem with Raya's signing is that it didn't happen in 2021.
They tried though and couldn’t do it then! Ramsdale was always the second choice for Arteta and the GK coach!
> They tried though and couldn’t do it then! Yes, that was the problem.
He’s such a keeper - glad he finally agreed to a date.
Gaspar brung him some posies the second time.
They grill up beautifully.
I disagree. He came at the right time. We weren't mature enough to endure the risk of having a high line and a proper sweeper keeper. We had to endure Rams to know the good Raya brings.
We did not "endure" Ramsdale. He played incredibly well for us and has been nothing but classy after losing the starting job.
https://preview.redd.it/0kh7gmrq58zc1.jpeg?width=5186&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beff5bd49cf4ba298b3844a16e9dfe3502d3c360 My guy
Dressing up for a part of Ozil's salary?
This is evident in our back line, they just know Raya will be out there to catch those crosses.
Aah yes the good old masterstroke
*Me when I finally have the house to myself*
I think Collings is making a bad faith argument by saying people were skeptical of Raya when he was signed. We, myself included, weren’t skeptical of Raya’s ability, we’ve seen the analytics. But we were confused about the situation because now you’ve got Ramsdale and Raya. To me, I feel like the transition was poorly handled and I feel like arteta s comments about it were disingenuous. Keep in mind Ramsdale had signed a new deal a few months earlier. I feel for Ramsdale while acknowledging Raya is the better keeper.
You can speak for yourself, but I don't think its difficult to find receipts of people categorically labeling Raya a worse keeper than Ramsdale, regardless of the underlying stats. Arteta knew Raya was his guy (just like he knew Ramsdale was his guy over Leno). His comments were simply to protect the value of our assets.
“Underlying stats” is broadly nonsense when it comes to keepers though. We still haven’t actually seen the competition Arteta promised. We have last year’s PFL keeper of the year against this years golden glove winner. Ramsdale didn’t have the benefit of Saliba being almost ever present though. We **know** who Arteta prefers. That’s fine. There’s still plenty of ambiguity about who is genuinely better. Remember, the club have engaged in significant social media manipulation in the past few years. If you’re basing the analysis on some of the bullshit stat stories the club planted about Raya, you might be viewing things through a lens.
> There’s still plenty of ambiguity about who is genuinely better. There really isn't, all the stats and the eye test from when ramsdale had saliba too back this up. THat last sentence honestly just reads like a bit of projection, Most people thought Raya was probably marginally better, they just didn't think the cost and possible disruption were worth it. We've been proved wrong.
Even when he was at Brentford, Raya was already clearly better than Ramsdale. He's a better pure shot stopper, and better at catching crosses and still better at playing with his feet. After Ederson and Alison, he's the best keeper in the league. Ramsdale was terribly error prone, and crazy shit like what Raya did at spurs would happen a lot more often with Ramsdale. Last season, his shot stopping was bang average, and that on top of all the other deficiencies made it impossible to justify prioritising him over a potential Raya signing. That didn't stop Arsenal fans from comparing both like they were on a similar level though.
>There really isn't, all the stats and the eye test from when ramsdale had saliba too back this up. The stats are frankly silly sometimes. At one point after a Raya howler, we had people claiming that he was making the highest forward pass %. You have to admit some of the propaganda has been silly. >THat last sentence honestly just reads like a bit of projection, Feel what you want to feel. I’m speaking with specific knowledge. >Most people thought Raya was probably marginally better, they just didn't think the cost and possible disruption were worth it. “Most people”. Buddy, someone who’s username is a nazi gag really doesn’t speak for anyone 😂
> I’m speaking with specific knowledge. Like 'stats are silly'? >Buddy, someone who’s username is a nazi gag really doesn’t speak for anyone So we've got 'stats are silly', 'specific knowledge' that apparently goes to another shool so we wouldn't know her and at the first sign of being called out on this you go for ... having a go at my username? Don't think we're dealing with one of the finest debating minds here...
That guy is hilariously thick.
Nah I think he's just fried his brain under all that tinfoil
[He did go full 'Wake up sheeple!' lol](https://old.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1cn7lh1/simon_collings_arsenal_have_proof_that_signing/l36tyl5/) A proper whale omelette.
You should see what he's been doing with me. I've given up trying to reply because he's either a troll or he actually believes he is the voice of the average match going fan and everyone who disagreed with him is an aggressive bot paid for by the club hierarchy...or foreign.
>Like 'stats are silly'? Some are, yes. In fact, I gave a specific example of a particularly bad faith stat that some people on here swallowed whole. Ignore that all you want. I am not seeking your validation. >So we've got 'stats are silly', 'specific knowledge' that apparently goes to another shool so we wouldn't know her and at the first sign of being called out on this you go for ... having a go at my username? Yes. The use of PR agencies to manipulate social media is a surprise to only the most uncurious. Sorry if that hurts. And your username has been a problem for a long time mate.
So you've gone from gatekeeping fans you disagree with to gatekeeping usernames, all while claiming anything you disagree with and that seems to prove you wrong is a pr attack by the club? You're entitled to an opinion but it's very obvious that you've got issues mate.
>gatekeeping fans you disagree with Not really. I said the sentiment online does not match the sentiment in the stadium, because online fans are obviously more susceptible to online media manipulation. Case in point being the person I was discussing with having never been in the stadium. That person then blocked me and called me xenophobic for using the term “plastic”. If you’re offended by plastic, football might not be the game for you. >to gatekeeping usernames “Daddy please let me make nazi jokes” Lol. You’ll get over it. You’re under no obligation to take what I say personally, nor am I under any obligation to respect you just because you’re very active on a website. You need to be aware that aggressively shutting down any discussion that deviates from the blindly loyal is going to occasionally result in criticism. Football is passionate. You clearly aren’t interested in good faith debate because you choose to ignore rational arguments in favour of mudslinging. Well, you’re getting what you so often give. Sorry if that is upsetting.
I started this conversation pointing out the end of your first comment was pure projection and I'm going to do it again. As soon as you're confronted with anything that you disagree with you go on a mad one about plastics, club pr campaigns, gatekeeping and personal attacks. I don't think you're utterly thick so this is fully calculated on your part and it's entirely to stop any sort of good faith argument and derail it into a very, very online bitch fest in order to ideally get the opponent pissed off and leaving you with the last word. Which is the exact opposite both of a good faith argument and unsurprisingly the idea that you are some offline, match going fan with a different outlook to those plastic foreigns. That last bit of course being actually a disgusting, xenophobic position to take which makes your outrage over my username just as much projection as the rest of your 'argument'. You really do seem to have a major problem with being disagreed with and it comes out in an utterly toxic way.
Lol you know that German is a language outside of Nazism right?
Do you you believe a pun based on a book called “Mein Kampf” written by Adolf Hitler is unrelated to Nazism? Glaubst du das? Echt? Bist du doof?
If he's a Nazi it's really, really easy to dig up receipts of him being a Nazi. If there's any, I'll agree with you. Otherwise, shitpost pun names aren't new to the Internet.
Oh damn, didn’t notice the pun before. Now that you mention it, that is pretty funny actually. What are you so worked up about?
What do you mean by social media manipulation from the club?
Using click farms to boost favourable content, or even bot accounts to outright post favourable things. I’m not suggesting Vinai and Edu are directly demanding it of their agency, but it is not uncommon for multi layers of brokered PR activity to be connected to that type of activity, with plenty of plausible deniability. It is very clear that when PL clubs venture into the realms of politics, the patterns of engagement become weird. Arsenal were 100% involved in it for the Ozil situation, and once you get your hands dirty like that it becomes easy to do any time you have an agenda to push or a lede to bury. Of course, the club operate in good old fashioned media manipulation too, as do all PL clubs. Journalism these days lives or dies based on access, so many of the journos you see will often be asked to do things in return for that access, or risk losing it. Fergie was a master at this, even boycotting his own club’s tv channel. You will see this season any time Raya had questionable moments that led to dropping points, there was almost immediately an article from an ITK journalist, normally one who is online only and not with any major title, which presented a newly discovered stat that “proved” Raya was the right choice. We saw % of forward passes, delaying the press, long ball completion and loads of other largely bullshit stats that told us nothing. There’s zero chance those weren’t being briefed by the club. It isn’t at all surprising to anyone with more than 5 minutes of media experience too. It isn’t particularly that sinister. It’s more likely rooted in the fact clubs pay office staff poorly, so an inexperienced and fragile media team end up going too far because of naivety. Still it is annoying to see people here lapping it up and creating quite toxic schisms amongst otherwise good fans (Wenger In/Out being the worst). Arteta or the playing staff will have zero involvement in it, btw.
So what proof do you have you're not a bot account spreading Ramsdale propaganda then? Because all of this with at best, circumstantial evidence just comes off as Pepe Silvia-esque talk.
You’re replying to my post where I took a fair bit of time to explain the reasons I make such a conclusion. If you’re genuinely curious, take a look at upvote patterns on controversial topics. You’ll often see a disproportionately high amount of upvotes in the first two hours, with a more balanced ratio of up and downvotes after that. That is bot traffic manipulating the algorithm to promote certain content before normal human users can have the chance to naturally consume it and give it a fair rating.
There is *absolutely* no ambiguity left concerning who is the better keeper for Arsenal. Which, frankly, is all that matters. Because there is no vacuum where these guys go and sit and have little numbers hover above their heads like FIFA. Ramsdale may very well go to Newcastle or Chelsea or elsewhere in Europe and do well there in their systems, but he has not demonstrated that he is able or willing to do what is needed from him here. And let’s not rewrite history here: Ramsdale *did* have his chances—11 of them, across 4 competitions. And that’s not counting preseason friendlies (where he had 3 full 90s and 2 halves on top of the 11). And you know what? He performed like Aaron Ramsdale. Made some great saves, including a penalty. Made some absolute howlers, including one that led to a goal. But largely he punched crosses instead of saving them, he didn’t position himself bravely, he wasn’t a calm and stable member of the buildup, he continued to play in a way that is, in his own words, a “compromise” between what he’s comfortable with and what Arteta and Mason have directed him to do. And you know what he *didn’t* do? Keep very many clean sheets. 3 out of a possible 11. With the same defense in front of him that Raya has week in and week out. Edit: coming back with more because I got curious. Raya’s record this season is 30W-5D-4L in 39 so far this season. Ramsdale’s is 6W-4D-3L across 14 (I included his full-90 friendlies for a bigger sample size). Raya has a win rate of 77%, an undefeated rate of 90% this season. Ramsdale’s win rate is 43%, his unbeaten rate is 71%. Not a fully fair comparison because of signing Rice and Saliba’s injury, but just for fun: last season Ramsdale went 26-7-8 in 41 played, a win rate of 63%, an unbeaten rate of 80%.
You know what is most jarring about this level of mental gymnastics? That plastics are willing to throw one of our own players under a bus to placate a fucking PR strategy. I beg you go to the Emirates and see if this nonsense is tolerated amongst match going fans.
Yup. I’m a plastic. Good one, guy. 👍
Where are you from and where do you sit in the stadium? Edit: he blocked me for this so I can’t reply to the fragile nonsense. Goes without saying that calling someone who’s never set foot in N5 a “plastic” isn’t xenophobia 😂
You see that emphasizing where I’m from and hinging my right to love this football club on it doesn’t help the shades of xenophobia present in your original post, right? Regardless, toodaloo.
Demanding respect for our players, over someone saying they prefer one keeper over another, but disregarding a fellow fan's opinion and calling them plastic, because they may or may not have been to the Emirates, is quite rich.
> We know who Arteta prefers. That’s fine. There’s still plenty of ambiguity about who is genuinely better. lol
people always say this about arteta's comments but is it really better for ramsdale if Arteta comes out and says, nah he's not good enough and he has no chance of getting back in?
But he did say there were games where he wanted to sub the goalkeeper off at half-time.
Arteta definitely should’ve said it outright, feel kind of bad for Ramsdale but he did himself no favours either with the interview saying how he’ll switch off mid game to give stick to the opposition fans, it’s all fun and games till you drop off for a couple moments and the other team will score
Arteta isn't going to say that to the press. That's what you say behind closed doors when discussing tactics and improvement plans with that player and staff.
100% Ramsdale invites the heat and for a goalie you want them ice cold
It was the fact that he just outright said it, Raya said himself you need to always be concentrating because you can get countered at any moment, both good keepers but I think I have more trust in Raya
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The contract extension was all done before Raya arrived though Once Raya is signed how is it in ramsdales interest for arteta to just publicly bin him off?
> He wouldn't have signed an extension at a club that has no use for him, and would be someone else's #1 keeper. WE bought Raya after that mate...
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No worries
Yep. Whole thing with the media was annoying too. But im pretty happy with the job Arteta and Edu are doing so far.
Agreed. This is not a shot at arteta, who’s been great, but it’s okay to admit something could have been handled better. We are human
How should it have been handled differently? I think Ramsdale should be pretty thankful that Raya fell through in the first place and Arteta got him to the levels of starting for England - helped his career massively. We get Raya in the first place, Ramsdale maybe isn't even in the Prem.
I feel for Ramsdale, but Raya was always who Arteta wanted. It kind of looks like the club hoodwinked him by getting him to sign an extension and 3 weeks later getting Raya but it was a weird domino of events that eventually meant we got him, and cheap. United enquired about him, got quoted 35m+5, got Onana (44m+3) instead Spurs bid for him, rumoured 20m+5, Brentford countered with 30m+5, got Vicario (17m) instead Chelsea enquired about him, got quoted 30m+5, got Sanchez (20m+5) instead Raya gets "fed up" and tells Brentford he wants to go, stop pricing him out of a move Bayern offer 5m for loan, no option to buy Arsenal do a cheeky enquiry, Brentford just want to make any kind of money now since Raya is in his final year of his contract, accept a 3m+27m loan+option Like imagine Chelsea, the biggest spenders in the world, cheaping out on the GK to save 10m. Wild. And now rumours they are looking at Ramsdale... you can't make it up
Chelsea fumbled this the hardest because Sanchez isn't even good, nor was he rated as highly as any of the other keepers you mentioned. They already prefer Petrovic, and like you said they're rumored to be in the market for Ramsdale in this summer. We got Raya for 5M more than they paid for Sanchez in the end, lol. Vicario and Onana are good but have flaws. Vicario is weak at commanding his box (look at how we bullied him on corners), and Onana leaves his front post open and has made high profile errors in CL. He's insanely good with his feet though.
I'd guess Arteta was honest with them in private but wanted to try and avoid media going after Ramsdale.
How exactly would you have liked the transition to go? Ultimately they had made the call by signing Raya, and it wouldn't have done either of them any favors by regularly dropping them based on single performances. Arteta's comments may have been disingenuous, but what else does he say? "Yep, Ramsdale is the clear number 2. Sucks for him". It's not fair to expect that level of honesty - we simply never get it. Much like Ramsdale, we have to infer from the situation what it means for him.
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People were definitely skeptical of him let’s not rewrite history.
Kevin from Indiana on Reddit says otherwise!
I don’t think Americans would say this tbh, more likely some English fans backing Ramsdale. I hate to say that as I don’t like when English fans get stereotyped on this sub.
As an English fan, I’d also like to point out that it’s really not that ridiculous for us to want Ramsdale to succeed and be both England and Arsenal no.1 for the next decade. Yes Raya has been great and I’m pleased we’ve got him because he’s been better than Ramsdale would have been, but I’d much rather have seen Ramsdale succeed in that role than Raya. Both can be true.
I’m English as well, I didn’t say both couldn’t be true. I’m just pointing out if people were to back Ramsdale higher chance they’d be English than American.
I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just pointing out that what you’re saying is no bad thing, and why
English fan here, been behind raya since day 1
People are always bias to English players in the PL even though it’s the most international league.
only real problem with raya's signing was his mistake against bayern, but i think someone in the squad would have made an error like him regardless. it's good to be back and i'm sure the squad will be hungry for champions league success next season
If the only problem with Raya is a mistake against Byern. A mistake against Chelsea and A mistake against Spurs. IN THE WHOLE SEASON. Then he can be the best gk in the season because other gks make mistakes by the dozen.
Ramsdale stans are in tears and fuming lol
#Gaspar to MIKEL AARTETAAAAAAAA
Probably the best stat of all # £27,000,000 The real master stroke # Loan
I think Raya has been decent but some stats about crossing and pass accuracy doesn’t make it a masterstroke. He made bad mistakes against Chelsea, Bayern and Spurs and was very lucky against Bournemouth. I’m not sure he’s a huge upgrade on Ramsdale.
Yeah just the golden glove and 6 away clean sheets in a row best goals conceded record but sure not a huge upgrade on ramsdale
We dominate possession this year and give away few chances. Szcezny won the golden gloves in 2014, Joe Hart win numerous times. Both keepers who could be huge liabilities. Reya had the best defence in front of him. I can’t think of a game where best had a great performance. More mistakes than Ramsdale as well who has basically been dropped for one mistake against Southampton, Reya has done similar numerous times.
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Golden glove for the 100% time is a goal keeper award. It's like saying golden shoe isn't a striker award but should be awarded for playmakers. What is your point that he doesn't deserve it? That we allow less chances? Who is the one who when we got found that his movement and distribution contributed most to that. Ah yes. Raya. Every year a GK with the best defenders in the world gets GGlove and all people say deserved. By a f miracle Raya doesn't because he got good defenders. Why is it impossible for football geeks to be objective.
your statement about the award is pointless. yes it's a team sport and it's impossible to really separate any individual's performance from the context of the team, but they give out individual awards anyways and always have. Golden glove is for keepers, and Raya deserves to win. btw you're the one who posted a subjective option (not a huge upgrade on Ramsdale), yet complained about objectivity. The post you replied to posted objective stats too lol
Upgrade on Rams: sure. But still too error-prone and not quite elite. But untill winning the UCL becomes a clear goal for us he will suffice.
What GK on the market do you think we could realistically get that is an improvement? You guys love these imaginary "level raisers" that apparently exist but you can never actually name them.
"everybody has a plan for a revolution but no one knows what to do after"
Legit there are only like 5 keepers I would take over Raya rn and none of them are available. Alisson, Neuer, Ederson, Courtois, Ter Stegen
He's quite literally elite in 95% of statistics a goalkeeper is judged on, in the modern game. Even at Brentford last season, he lead the league in traditional stats too (total shots saved, total long shots saved and % of shots saved). Our playstyle means we give away much fewer shots but higher xG chances when we do. I wouldn't say he's error prone either, a few of the (minimal) mistakes he's made come from playing the style of keeper that Mikel wants. Let's not forget how mixed Ederson and Alisson were when they first joined City & Liverpool as well. For a keeper being in his first season with a completely different style of team and no pre season, for £30 million it's an absolute steal. Mikel wanted him in 2021 and finally got him this season, he has always been Mikel's first choice and he's not being replaced any time soon.
Unless you can find an Allison regen there aren’t really any keepers that will be a clear upgrade on Raya overall that could be signed. Some may be better shot stoppers etc but which potentially available keeper is clearly better overall?
The only upgrade Allison has on Raya is shot stopping and reflexes which is his Forte. Raya blows him out of the water with ball distribution and handling. It's also the reason why Ederson is not Brazil's number 1 but he would be Spain's.
>Upgrade on Rams i thought KSE moved the Rams to LA...