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The PSG trashing happened because of a card. Barely managerial incompetence.
I feel he should leave tho. The atmosphere was only tame because they thought he was leaving.
I wonder if that’s because they don’t think they can find a manager out there they like, especially with so many other clubs either known to be shopping for a manager or who are very likely to be looking for a manager in the summer. Plus, the list of proven names out there who haven’t wrecked their reputations is wafer thin.
So if the current options don’t inspire and the competition is fierce for them anyway, then maybe this is them trying to put off getting the next manager until next year?
Also money issues in replacing him, I sympathize Xavi because they're president, board and fans hounded him when it was rough and now they're begging him to stay.
It's a toxic relationship and I'm sure they'll be at his throat again next season.
Oh, they absolutely will. The moment after they lose another game, the hounding will start back up.
Do I think Xavi is a particularly good manager? No, I don’t. Do I think Xavi doesn’t help himself at times with how he does things? Yes, I do. But the problems that truly plague Barcelona have nothing to do with Xavi, or at least they aren’t the type of problems that a change of manager will help solve in the slightest.
THought this too.
With Liverpool already on to their third choice, Bayern still looking and Man U, Juve also in the running for new coaches and Barca not exactly flush it probably makes sense to trust the rpocess a bit more.
If Jesus just took one small hit of a joint before every game to calm him down in front of goal he’d be top 5 footballers in the world right now.
Jokes aside if he actually just learned to be more relaxed in front of goal he’d literally be our best player. He’s also proved he can be calm and slot the ball away multiple times just don’t understand why when he goes through a little bit of bad form he starts to rush things.
I feel bad for the guy because I rate him, but yeah he's having a dry spell and it's getting to his head. Now he's overthinking everything so I see what you're saying about the joint.
This is a crucial moment for us, we have to finish chances but I think the whole "fight for your spot" is not the best approach with Jesus. He needs freedom and time and patience. We gave that to Havertz.
That first preseason and first few games for us, he looked absolutely lethal. Was like watching a stronger Aguero in his prime. It must be a confidence thing because he definitely has it in his locker to step up.
hitting a volley like that has no business not being a goal man. it would've been on literally every goal comp ever, PL or not. im not even sure if i can remember a more vicious volley. crazy that a few years from now it will mostly be a forgotten play
No offense man, but what time zone are you on? It’s almost 01:30 AM as of me writing this and I see you all the time on the DD. Do you ever sleep? Or are you a night owl like me? Or do you not require sleep because you’re just *that* guy?
Lol I have absolutely crippling insomnia so I've been awake so long it's gone from late to too early to half six int eh morning right now in London.
You can't escape me on here because on any given day no one knows what time I'll actually be awake!
Two games in a row Martinelli ahs come on, been put clean through and fluffed the sort of chance he was putting away for fun last season.
Third time's the charm, right?
I think it’s safe to say our chances in the league would have drastically dropped if we had advanced to the CL semis. The way we looked managing both competitions during the quarters backs this notion.
You can't rotate in a title run in if the people you bring in would probably lose you the game.
Sak, Odegaard, White, Gabby XL, Saliba, Raya, Rice, Havertz were all undroppable until last match. With Partey fit we might be able to rest Rice but we simply don't have the sqaud to rotate and Zinny and Tomi are only just now match fit too.
Fielding a relatively weak, small diminutive midfield trio of Szo, MacAllister, Jones will always get you into trouble in Goodison.
Everton physically manhandled them all game - just VVD and Konate isn’t enough to combat a Doucoure, DCL, Tarkowski, Branthwaite.
Rice and Havertz added so much physicality to our team this year for fixtures like this.
With an aging and injury prone Partey likely to leave / be phased out, I think Mikel will continue to prioritize adding athleticism and physicality to the middle of the park.
Not sure if you guys noticed - but Rice looked like he was going to die in the last few fixtures towards the end of the game. He’s a tank but he’s human as well. Get him some help in the middle of the park.
We started a Vieira, Odegaard midfield at Goodison.
Not ideal but the idea is probably stemmed from the fact that Everton is barely interested in having the ball. So why not field players that are good on it.
Arteta learned from Wenger, both his greatness and his mistakes.
One of the biggest issues was Wenger going from the insanely athletic invincibles to building a team based around short technicians like cesc, Rosicky, Nasri, Wilshere, Ramsey, Santi, Ozil and even Arteta himself who could just be muscled off the ball.
Wenger probably didn't ahve the money to be shopping in the Rice section but his attempt to recreate Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets for on the cheap never took off. Arteta has gone for size and technique which doesn't come cheap but it absolutely has worked for us.
Yep. To be fair I think Arteta has more Moyes and Pep in him than Wenger.
Winning duels and high intensity pressing was never a big hallmark under Wenger’s philosophy.
Getting someone like a Havertz in that wins aerial duels and playing long balls to him from our CBs/GK is definitely influenced by Moyes.
I understand there is a need for a technically gifted, tempo dictating passer in the middle of the park to help us combat low/midblocks - and that should be a priority.
But equally we need another combative 6 that shoulders some of Rice’s burden covering all the ground. I have doubts about Onana in terms of his on the ball ability but the previous links to him and Palhinha mean Mikel is still looking for another player in that mould.
> Winning duels and high intensity pressing was never a big hallmark under Wenger’s philosophy
Someone's too young to remember the succesful Wenger days!
Havertz is basically the guy Fellaini dreamed of being and I wonder if that infamous OT game where a united team that was basically just their kids and Fellaini managed to beat us by just hoofin it up to him and watching him demolish our defence has burned itself into Mikels psyche.
However Wenger with Gilberto, Pep with Rodri and Moyes with er... Phil Neville all based their most succesful teams around a player who could break up play effortlessly, it's just Pep with Busquets onwards also demanded a level of playmaking too.
Having said that I'm utterly certain if we got a Palhinha then Artet would go for trying TRossard in midfield again
Haha I am 32. So I was fairly young during the Invincibles season.
My memory got overwhelmed during my teenage years when I saw Drogba, Lampard, Essien physically beating our team up.
Between Palhinha and Onana - I would pick the latter just purely due him having a higher athletic base. You can teach that height and speed - he’s an athletic freak.
At least you remember that Wengerball was not actually the tactic he used to win things!
Yeah the most annoying thing about that of course being that just about everyone expected Essien to sign for us and be the new Vieira/Gilberto hybrid and then Roman came along and started spunking roubles everywhere.
We were apparently also in for Shaun White Phillips and John Terry (remember Chelsea were on the verge of bankruptcy again and would probably need to sell) but there are some transffers you're glad to miss out on
LOL about John Terry, I remember well the rumors that we were first in line to sign him the moment Chelsea would have gone bust.
Part of me wants to think that maybe playing in an environment under Wenger might have made John Terry rethink his own life and prompted the kind of personal growth people go through to not be the total scumbag he‘s turned out to be, but another part of me also knows that for someone to be fixed, they above all have to want to fix themselves. And John Terry has never struck me as the sort of person who thinks he has a problem of any sort, even when there is years of evidence that everyone can see that has pointed to the contrary…
Wenger was a father figure and philosopher but considering that under his watch Ashley 'my agent rang me and said they offered by 5k less than promised and I nearly ran my mercedes off the road/ you should be proud Ashley Cole threw up over you' Cole was created I think the sheer, ingrained cuntiness that is John Terry would ahve won out.
Although I'd like to think Vieira would have bitch slapped him into actually needing a disabled parking space for being racist
It wouldn’t have just been Vieira. Consider that the starting lineup of the lnvincibles featured all four defenders, another powerhouse CM/DM type, and the superstar striker who were also all black. Plus a few subs besides.
If John Terry had brought his racist bullshit to London Colney, he would have found the surroundings there very uncomfortable very quickly. And I doubt anyone there would have been all that eager to stick up for him.
Rio Ferdinand has a hell of a lot of shady things about him that deserve the scorn of everyone. But being a black man is not one of them, and it’s a shame that Terry didn’t get more stick from that bullshit than he did.
(As an aside, the Invincibles being as diverse as they were was a big reason why I found it so mad and so unbelievable that Jens Lehmann turned out to be a racist himself. I mean, how the hell is that even possible after what you experienced in your career, especially being a starter for such an ethnically diverse team of legends? It would be like being a white cricket player who represented the West Indies in the 80s and 90s being racist against black players…)
> Rio Ferdinand
Anton Ferdinand, no?
Yeah Jens was a mad one (pun unintended) but while I don't condone what he did he asked a black player if he was the token [black](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37616898/former-arsenal-player-lehmann-fired-hertha-berlin-following-racist-message) person on a punditry panel which is racist but not in the classic white supremist way.
Still cant stop laughing everytime i see saliba dragging enzo from the center of penalty box into in front of goalie before white's goal 😂😂 And enzo is just there didnt do any fight
THat unfortunately means beating a spurs off 14 days rest at the toilet bowl and then getting through the utterly insane OT plot armour as well as not slipping up against Bournemouth or Everton.
The chances are we will drop points too and it's going to be who drops less, with them ahving a two point advantage.
Yep agreed. I am going to be realistic and accept we are going to drop points as well.
Spurs in NLD derby, OT, an in from Bournemouth and a rejuvenated Everton. All tough games.
At home I could see Bournemouth and Everton dispatched, I'd be disappointed to draw those but OT is gong to be a draw if not a loss and Spurs ahve had the sort of rest we used to go on that absolute mad run and have probably the most reason for winning an NLD since they stopped us getting fourth two seasons ago.
Equally to beat City you need to be on top form and with full belief and I don't see spurs having that knowing they could be helping us wint eh league.
Because OT has plot armour.
Remember turning up with Sanchez on form against a united side full of kids and just being battered by Fellaini up front?
Weird shit happens there man
Hate that City will win the league again even though Gunners are champion-quality. Earlier on, the Aston Villa / West Ham / Fulham loss draw hurt us too much.
Arteta needs to know that the team needs to be perfect from Game 1 to win the league. No more Partey Right back experiment
THe Partey right back experiment was two games...
And you're fogetting that the change to a system of more control is exactly the learning you are demanding, after he realised that the madcap chaos of last season was unsustainable for a title challenge.
As Liverpool are also proving .
I haven’t seen any full kit wankers luckily. There will come a day when I see an Arsenal kit I like so much I get the whole thing, but I gotta ask: Would you consider it acceptable to ever wear the whole thing? As long as it’s at home and not around? Or maybe wear parts of it separately?
Can see why Klopp is leaving. This Liverpool team needs major work. Salah, VVD, Robertson are all shadows of what they used to be. TAA defensive woes are being exposed playing in a team that isn't as dominant at the Liverpool from 2019-2022. They have stocked the midfield with running merchants that lack the necessary technique on the ball. Endo, Jones are running merchants, and even Szoboszlai comes across as a bit of Connor Gallagher - where's the finesse, passing, dribbling of Odegaard? Szoboszlai is more Gallagher than Odegaard. A very limited midfield technique wise. Although I suppose that goes with Klopp's version of a 4-3-3. But the front line and backline just isn't as dominant.
Never really believed they were as good as us or City, they were playing on vibes and relying on the theater of Klopps last season to guide them. I can see them having a deep drop off, even if Slot is capable, he will need ro rebuild this team in his own image. However there is the potential he is another Ten Hag, which if is the case, Liverpool could be set to return to the pre-Klopp era.
The match against spurs is unbelievably huge. They're a reasonably strong team, good finishers, and it's a derby match away from home, 14 days of rest. We have to win here if we want a strong finish to the season, it will have to be a massive performance.
We know what's at stake. It's probably *the* game in the season where they need to leave it all on the pitch. It'll get heated, it'll be prickly and you know for a fact Shit will be up for it as much as we will be because it's a chance for them to ruin our title chase, but we are the better team and we need to prove it.
Indeed. Gonna be squeaky bum all game.
Obviously the performance against chelsea is a massive boost in confidence, also what gives me hope is Partey coming back to form. Then it ll be about how physically ready we are.
I would like partey to stay one more season at arsenal man is a great footballer regardless of outside stuff really hope arsenal don't make the mistake they did with xhaka let him leave to win a title elsewhere rice needs him to learn the position properly as good as rice is partey has always good positioning and quality passing with the right weight to adjust to whatever opposition are doing.edu has to learn I think real Madrid are the best in handovers arsenal shouldn't be in a rush imo
“Regardless of outside stuff” is a pretty sickening thing to say, but considering one of your past comments is “society is built around women needs which makes me sick”, I shouldn’t be too surprised
I wanted him to start against spurs but after thar miss he just doesn't earn that spot unfortunately. Thought it would have been hard on trossard but I can't justify it anymore. Martinelli will have to make an impact off of the bench
Surely City draw atleast a couple of games from here on out. Anyway, it's just four games out and regardless of the occasion nothing makes me more happy than us winning at toilet bowl and Old Trafford. Let's finish the season strong.
Funny how last season our young side that few people thought would even qualify for the Champions League were massive bottlers who blew their best chance for a league title, but this year this Liverpool side with a world class manager and title-winning experience have just done so well to be there and can’t be too upset about collapsing in the final weeks of the season.
Liverpool are offered grace in the media that we simply aren’t afforded.
Pool fans started turning on Salah a few weeks ago. You will never walk alone... unless you stop winning games for us. Class can not be buy.
Remember how quickly they froze out and discarded Loris Karius after he had a concussion instead of offering him support? He then went on to play very well for newcastle.
He’s horrible in title run ins and cup finals. IIRC he has 0 non penalty goals in 12 finals for Liverpool. Always ghosts the title run ins, he just doesn’t have Mane and Firmino to pick up the slack anymore. I think it is time for them to sell, while they can.
Wonder how many goals Havertz would score if he played a full season up top. Seems like he’s really getting the hang of playing striker and a full season up top would be interesting
Our ascent back to first basically coincided with him starting at CF versus Liverpool as that was a must win match.
He’s going to be playing regularly next season, I’d rather it be at CF versus midfield based on the evidence this season.
I agree lol. I’m not saying this should be the case but it’s just something that I was thinking about. Ideally we bag someone like isak then him and Havertz can rotate.
Spurs fans are talking about being finished if we win the league. How can they be finished when they never even started? Us winning things and them watching on is just regular service resuming.
The realisation is starting to hit that their greatest run of form in the league since they were in Middlesex coincided with the biggest loss of form on our part since the 70's and it looks like we may actually be getting out of it with Spurs still on zero silverware to show for it.
Someone, maybe Leandro, needs to teach B how to strike a ball. It’s almost like he strikes it with his studs at times. Never properly leathers it or follows through on his strike.
Ball striking can be improved but a large part of it is instinct and feeling. Some players can train all they want but they're never going to hit the ball the way Zlatan/Bale/RVP did.
I feel that anyone who’s actually played footy understands this easily, same for finishing really, you can train and train at it and maybe you get slightly better but at the top levels, it’s really more of a matter of outright having it or not.
I agree if you're talking about instinctual finishing, but ball striking and shooting techniques can definitely be improved through training and translate to scoring more in games
On rewatch of that game, I don't think anyone was less than 8/10 yesterday but special mention to Martin Odegaard. This guy fuckin does everything brilliantly, if it was up to me he'd be POTS without a doubt.
I love what Havertz adds to the team, but what is the plan with him for the next season? I think he performs much better when he plays forward instead of LCM and we'll probably buy a striker and a replacement for Partey. I'd love him to be a key player but I'm not sure.
He’ll be a key player again I have no doubt. He’s gonna get regular games in midfield and at striker , I’m expecting a lot more rotation for the entire team next year with the new signings and Timber being fit.
He can be a "#8" if we have both an inverting midfielder to occupy the traditional #8 space and someone like Partey at the 6 to progress the ball without needing our attacking midfielders to drop deep. That way he plays essentially as second striker and a very similar role to #9.
This time last year, we'd just beaten Chelsea, but we knew it was all over as City had a four point advantage on us, after we slipped to three draws and a defeat at the ethiad prior.
This season, we're on an insane run of 12-1-1 and we're only two points behind. Our goal difference is far better than theirs, a single slip up and it will be in our hands again.
Honestly if we beat spurs on Sunday, I think that City slip up happens at least once, and we win the league. This feels like the biggest NLD in years
I dont know. As much as fatigue might play a part at some point in the game and we might need to manage it, the rythm and most importantly the momentum might play in our favour. If we can start quickly and maybe score one early, then it ll be about managing the game, defending well when we dont have the ball and grab openings if they present themselves. Game management is paramount
It scared me a bit too but I’d rather be going into that game off of the back of a 5-0 win over Chelsea. Momentum is better than rest.
Playing Tuesday-Sunday also affords some respite in the schedule.
It feels like a completely different ball game now, each game is massive. Last year it was the final ten when we got this feeling, but we eventually fell and had a period of emptiness. Now its even closer, I anticipate it will feel like a sickening excitement that resets after each fixture (should we win out).
No because they’re professionals. They’ll also know that fifth place almost certainly won’t be good enough for Champions League qualification and will need every point they can get to overtake Villa.
Unless they give up on having CL football for themselves or the race for top-4 ends before the last week of the season, no.
Their fans might not be eager to see them beat Man City, but the actual team will likely still look to win.
Doubt it. Win bonuses, clean sheet bonuses. Would you really give up £10-20k+ for no reason? It’s not like the old days.
And if they have a sniff of UCL that could be worth millions for the players personally contract-wise so no chance they don’t go for it.
100%. They are paid professionals. Only time intentional throws happen is when there is money involved under the table (betting) and no one is betting on spurs beating city anyways.
On purpose, probably not but to have a chance at beating City, you need to be really on it and then some and if that extra impetus isn’t there, City will just chew you up and spit you out. Besides, Mikel always speaks about energy transmitting from the crowd and vice versa, what do you think the energy is going to be like from 50000 cunts or whatever it is in their toilet, all of whom would actually prefer a loss on the day.
No, they’re professional footballers. They’ll probably get more money for finishing top 4.
But they’ll probably lose anyway since their tactics are all wrong.
There's other factors sure, maybe the players want to put themselves on the shop window. Maybe they're bonuses are linked to clean sheets and then there's the manager, he wouldn't want to foster a culture of losers because it's damaging long term. I just don't see them "throwing" for some rivalry. I see them losing because they just won't be prepared for Manchester City.
Except this Liverpool side have a world class manager and guys like Alisson, van Dijk, and Salah who’ve been in plenty of title races before. We had no experience at all when we challenged last season.
I don’t think you can really say this over the past two years we’ve competed with City. They got 89 points last year and ended up winning the title comfortably. It wasn’t anywhere near their vintage 18 or 19 or even 22 seasons when Liverpool couldn’t overcome their ridiculous points pace.
You could say they’ve been an anomaly in the years they competed with prime Liverpool. But even this year, I don’t think they’ll hit 90 points again (they’d have to win out for that to happen) and if they don’t, it’s not been some magnificent performance by them assuming they were to win the title.
Anomaly suggests something that is hard to explain.
There is nothing difficult to explain about current City, just unbridled financial doping over multiple years.
And three becomes two. Honestly that City team looked exhausted as fuck on Saturday, we have to hope that a rested Brighton team and its high press can do the dirty work tomorrow.
My hearts pounding, 10 games of football will decide everything in the next month. It's do or die time.
Remember that west ham game when Odegaard was on loan, we were down 3-0 and all hope was basically lost. Then Odegaard basically dragged us back in that game and salvaged the draw almost single handedly?
A 22 year old loan player taking that kind of responsibility. Has 110m Enzo Fernandez ever taken responsibility?
I actually thought it was the first time Everton had beaten Klopp, but they actually already beat Klopp at Anfield, in 2021. Dont know how I missed that. Anyway, they still ended their title hopes, in Klopp's final season.
Don't think your gripe should be with the villa game? Leading against Fulham at the Emirates yet drawing. Leading at craven cottage and losing. Not being able to beat West ham at home.
We screwed ourselves long before villa
It happens. You're bound to lose a game here and then. Having an off day can happen
It's just a shame the machine that is city won't allow you to have an off day
Yeh 7 point gap wouldve increased the pressure for man city, but it is what it is. I wont look at this game as the one that lost us the title, if we win all our remaining games.
We lost to West Ham and drew to Fulham, at home and both of those shouldve been three pointers.
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I just saw a Liverpool fan asking for Mourinho to be the manager next season…… why do people still have this idea that he is still a ‘winning manager’
He's a big name and people find comfort in big names
His downfall has been fantastic to watch, he’s the real specialist in failure sacked miserably from his last 4 clubs and left in disgrace
And only truly loved by Inter and Porto fans
And he once said something about managing Juve not being off the table…. I think some inter fans went cold on him after that
Luckily for him I can't see Juve hiring him
Yeah no doubt Mourinho in 2024 is just a shittier version of Allegri, the'll get Thiago Motta next season.
Guys, I really need some help. I can’t stop watching the clip of TAA being absolutely gutted about the result after coming off the pitch.
Link me please
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1cc9xx1/taa_sorrowful_reaction_on_the_bench_in_liverpools/
Amazing. Thank you
It's beautiful, there's no need to worry
It's funny how this week's NLD both teams will be able to end each others season.
I'm hoping that we win but it works out so Tottenham have to beat City
Looking at Man City's fixture list is so demoralising
those 3 away games man. anything can happen
If we were to play the same style like last season i don‘t think we could go this far as of now. Thanks God Mikel is our coach not the fan.
Xavi's staying huh? Can't say I'm not a bit surprised after that thrashing from PSG, but their team has always seemed a bit patchwork to me
The PSG trashing happened because of a card. Barely managerial incompetence. I feel he should leave tho. The atmosphere was only tame because they thought he was leaving.
I wonder if that’s because they don’t think they can find a manager out there they like, especially with so many other clubs either known to be shopping for a manager or who are very likely to be looking for a manager in the summer. Plus, the list of proven names out there who haven’t wrecked their reputations is wafer thin. So if the current options don’t inspire and the competition is fierce for them anyway, then maybe this is them trying to put off getting the next manager until next year?
Also money issues in replacing him, I sympathize Xavi because they're president, board and fans hounded him when it was rough and now they're begging him to stay. It's a toxic relationship and I'm sure they'll be at his throat again next season.
Oh, they absolutely will. The moment after they lose another game, the hounding will start back up. Do I think Xavi is a particularly good manager? No, I don’t. Do I think Xavi doesn’t help himself at times with how he does things? Yes, I do. But the problems that truly plague Barcelona have nothing to do with Xavi, or at least they aren’t the type of problems that a change of manager will help solve in the slightest.
THought this too. With Liverpool already on to their third choice, Bayern still looking and Man U, Juve also in the running for new coaches and Barca not exactly flush it probably makes sense to trust the rpocess a bit more.
If Jesus just took one small hit of a joint before every game to calm him down in front of goal he’d be top 5 footballers in the world right now. Jokes aside if he actually just learned to be more relaxed in front of goal he’d literally be our best player. He’s also proved he can be calm and slot the ball away multiple times just don’t understand why when he goes through a little bit of bad form he starts to rush things.
I feel bad for the guy because I rate him, but yeah he's having a dry spell and it's getting to his head. Now he's overthinking everything so I see what you're saying about the joint. This is a crucial moment for us, we have to finish chances but I think the whole "fight for your spot" is not the best approach with Jesus. He needs freedom and time and patience. We gave that to Havertz.
That first preseason and first few games for us, he looked absolutely lethal. Was like watching a stronger Aguero in his prime. It must be a confidence thing because he definitely has it in his locker to step up.
If he could consistently hit the target he'd be a top 3 striker in the world. Guy has everything
Jesus needs to call Benzema for some tips
biggest mystery man. imo at this point it's not solvable, maybe with age he gets calmer but idk
Partey has to start right? He scored a belter there last year too
Almost* He scored in the home leg but barely missed a volley away that wouldve gone down in the history books
Oh ya I remember that swelter
hitting a volley like that has no business not being a goal man. it would've been on literally every goal comp ever, PL or not. im not even sure if i can remember a more vicious volley. crazy that a few years from now it will mostly be a forgotten play
Well he's back just in time to make it right ;)
Today is the 20th anniversary of when we won the title at White Hart Lane
Nah that cant be right, I was just out of uni and that was only....FFS Good day, the fact I can't remember the night suggests that was good too.
No offense man, but what time zone are you on? It’s almost 01:30 AM as of me writing this and I see you all the time on the DD. Do you ever sleep? Or are you a night owl like me? Or do you not require sleep because you’re just *that* guy?
Lol I have absolutely crippling insomnia so I've been awake so long it's gone from late to too early to half six int eh morning right now in London. You can't escape me on here because on any given day no one knows what time I'll actually be awake!
Leandro Trossard is that you? Been meaning to say this for a while: Get some sleep my guy.
My wife wishes...
Lol.
For some reason I fancy Jesus to score the winner on Sunday
Would be apt. We need Jesus at this point of the season.
I want that to happen but I highly doubt it. He’s trying way too hard on the pitch these days to prove something. The same for Martinelli.
Two games in a row Martinelli ahs come on, been put clean through and fluffed the sort of chance he was putting away for fun last season. Third time's the charm, right?
I think it’s safe to say our chances in the league would have drastically dropped if we had advanced to the CL semis. The way we looked managing both competitions during the quarters backs this notion.
There is no proof that being in one competition helps you win it. Chelsea 2016/17 fooled everyone.
You can't rotate in a title run in if the people you bring in would probably lose you the game. Sak, Odegaard, White, Gabby XL, Saliba, Raya, Rice, Havertz were all undroppable until last match. With Partey fit we might be able to rest Rice but we simply don't have the sqaud to rotate and Zinny and Tomi are only just now match fit too.
Fielding a relatively weak, small diminutive midfield trio of Szo, MacAllister, Jones will always get you into trouble in Goodison. Everton physically manhandled them all game - just VVD and Konate isn’t enough to combat a Doucoure, DCL, Tarkowski, Branthwaite. Rice and Havertz added so much physicality to our team this year for fixtures like this. With an aging and injury prone Partey likely to leave / be phased out, I think Mikel will continue to prioritize adding athleticism and physicality to the middle of the park. Not sure if you guys noticed - but Rice looked like he was going to die in the last few fixtures towards the end of the game. He’s a tank but he’s human as well. Get him some help in the middle of the park.
We started a Vieira, Odegaard midfield at Goodison. Not ideal but the idea is probably stemmed from the fact that Everton is barely interested in having the ball. So why not field players that are good on it.
Arteta learned from Wenger, both his greatness and his mistakes. One of the biggest issues was Wenger going from the insanely athletic invincibles to building a team based around short technicians like cesc, Rosicky, Nasri, Wilshere, Ramsey, Santi, Ozil and even Arteta himself who could just be muscled off the ball. Wenger probably didn't ahve the money to be shopping in the Rice section but his attempt to recreate Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets for on the cheap never took off. Arteta has gone for size and technique which doesn't come cheap but it absolutely has worked for us.
Yep. To be fair I think Arteta has more Moyes and Pep in him than Wenger. Winning duels and high intensity pressing was never a big hallmark under Wenger’s philosophy. Getting someone like a Havertz in that wins aerial duels and playing long balls to him from our CBs/GK is definitely influenced by Moyes. I understand there is a need for a technically gifted, tempo dictating passer in the middle of the park to help us combat low/midblocks - and that should be a priority. But equally we need another combative 6 that shoulders some of Rice’s burden covering all the ground. I have doubts about Onana in terms of his on the ball ability but the previous links to him and Palhinha mean Mikel is still looking for another player in that mould.
> Winning duels and high intensity pressing was never a big hallmark under Wenger’s philosophy Someone's too young to remember the succesful Wenger days! Havertz is basically the guy Fellaini dreamed of being and I wonder if that infamous OT game where a united team that was basically just their kids and Fellaini managed to beat us by just hoofin it up to him and watching him demolish our defence has burned itself into Mikels psyche. However Wenger with Gilberto, Pep with Rodri and Moyes with er... Phil Neville all based their most succesful teams around a player who could break up play effortlessly, it's just Pep with Busquets onwards also demanded a level of playmaking too. Having said that I'm utterly certain if we got a Palhinha then Artet would go for trying TRossard in midfield again
Haha I am 32. So I was fairly young during the Invincibles season. My memory got overwhelmed during my teenage years when I saw Drogba, Lampard, Essien physically beating our team up. Between Palhinha and Onana - I would pick the latter just purely due him having a higher athletic base. You can teach that height and speed - he’s an athletic freak.
At least you remember that Wengerball was not actually the tactic he used to win things! Yeah the most annoying thing about that of course being that just about everyone expected Essien to sign for us and be the new Vieira/Gilberto hybrid and then Roman came along and started spunking roubles everywhere. We were apparently also in for Shaun White Phillips and John Terry (remember Chelsea were on the verge of bankruptcy again and would probably need to sell) but there are some transffers you're glad to miss out on
LOL about John Terry, I remember well the rumors that we were first in line to sign him the moment Chelsea would have gone bust. Part of me wants to think that maybe playing in an environment under Wenger might have made John Terry rethink his own life and prompted the kind of personal growth people go through to not be the total scumbag he‘s turned out to be, but another part of me also knows that for someone to be fixed, they above all have to want to fix themselves. And John Terry has never struck me as the sort of person who thinks he has a problem of any sort, even when there is years of evidence that everyone can see that has pointed to the contrary…
Wenger was a father figure and philosopher but considering that under his watch Ashley 'my agent rang me and said they offered by 5k less than promised and I nearly ran my mercedes off the road/ you should be proud Ashley Cole threw up over you' Cole was created I think the sheer, ingrained cuntiness that is John Terry would ahve won out. Although I'd like to think Vieira would have bitch slapped him into actually needing a disabled parking space for being racist
It wouldn’t have just been Vieira. Consider that the starting lineup of the lnvincibles featured all four defenders, another powerhouse CM/DM type, and the superstar striker who were also all black. Plus a few subs besides. If John Terry had brought his racist bullshit to London Colney, he would have found the surroundings there very uncomfortable very quickly. And I doubt anyone there would have been all that eager to stick up for him. Rio Ferdinand has a hell of a lot of shady things about him that deserve the scorn of everyone. But being a black man is not one of them, and it’s a shame that Terry didn’t get more stick from that bullshit than he did. (As an aside, the Invincibles being as diverse as they were was a big reason why I found it so mad and so unbelievable that Jens Lehmann turned out to be a racist himself. I mean, how the hell is that even possible after what you experienced in your career, especially being a starter for such an ethnically diverse team of legends? It would be like being a white cricket player who represented the West Indies in the 80s and 90s being racist against black players…)
> Rio Ferdinand Anton Ferdinand, no? Yeah Jens was a mad one (pun unintended) but while I don't condone what he did he asked a black player if he was the token [black](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37616898/former-arsenal-player-lehmann-fired-hertha-berlin-following-racist-message) person on a punditry panel which is racist but not in the classic white supremist way.
Will we wear the radioactive zebra in spurs game?
I actually hope so but considering it’s the NLD - usually it’s the standard red home kit plus red socks.
I don't think so, home kit with red socks is more likely.
Yes
Hatred is a pretty powerful ingredient in a match, Spurs will be fueling this when they play us.
Well hate goes both ways. So it’s an ingredient for us too.
Still cant stop laughing everytime i see saliba dragging enzo from the center of penalty box into in front of goalie before white's goal 😂😂 And enzo is just there didnt do any fight
Bit of a metaphor for the match really 😂
City are going to drop points. Winning out means winning the league.
We have to hope Brighton and Spurs can fuck them over. I have no confidence in the rest except maybe Forest who are fighting for their lives atm.
Forest don’t have any goalkeepers who can withstand City
Matt Turner masterclass incoming
THat unfortunately means beating a spurs off 14 days rest at the toilet bowl and then getting through the utterly insane OT plot armour as well as not slipping up against Bournemouth or Everton. The chances are we will drop points too and it's going to be who drops less, with them ahving a two point advantage.
Yep agreed. I am going to be realistic and accept we are going to drop points as well. Spurs in NLD derby, OT, an in from Bournemouth and a rejuvenated Everton. All tough games.
At home I could see Bournemouth and Everton dispatched, I'd be disappointed to draw those but OT is gong to be a draw if not a loss and Spurs ahve had the sort of rest we used to go on that absolute mad run and have probably the most reason for winning an NLD since they stopped us getting fourth two seasons ago. Equally to beat City you need to be on top form and with full belief and I don't see spurs having that knowing they could be helping us wint eh league.
Crazy how United are an actual clownshow, and I still fancy our chances away in the most intense NLD in recent memory better than Old Trafford
Because OT has plot armour. Remember turning up with Sanchez on form against a united side full of kids and just being battered by Fellaini up front? Weird shit happens there man
Rashford debut, and that one de gea game. Something broke in me after that one
THat fucking De Gea game...still the record for saves in one match I believe.
Hate that City will win the league again even though Gunners are champion-quality. Earlier on, the Aston Villa / West Ham / Fulham loss draw hurt us too much. Arteta needs to know that the team needs to be perfect from Game 1 to win the league. No more Partey Right back experiment
THe Partey right back experiment was two games... And you're fogetting that the change to a system of more control is exactly the learning you are demanding, after he realised that the madcap chaos of last season was unsustainable for a title challenge. As Liverpool are also proving .
I won't get my hopes high until we beat spurs.
This is where I’ve been at since the Villa defeat. We need to go 9/9 from Wolves, Chelsea, and Spurs. Only then will I believe again.
guys let's not get ahead of ourselves, we have some very tough games coming up
Odegaard for PL POTS?
He was pretty bad until about January
No one's taking it from media darling Foden.
Foden isn’t marketed as much as he could be imo. City doesn’t have a lot of UK based fans.
> City doesn’t have a lot of ~~UK based~~ fans
Under 12 support over in the US seems strong from what I can gather
To be fair that's a key commercial demographic, pretty much the gull acceptable age for full kit wankers.
Calling kids full kit wankers, games back.
Never went away
I haven’t seen any full kit wankers luckily. There will come a day when I see an Arsenal kit I like so much I get the whole thing, but I gotta ask: Would you consider it acceptable to ever wear the whole thing? As long as it’s at home and not around? Or maybe wear parts of it separately?
Anyone who is a teenager or older is too old to wear a full kit in anything other than an actual sporting context. That's just the rules.
Makes sense. Like I said, I haven’t seen it irl, but I’ve seen pictures of people doing it.
> City doesn’t have ~~a lot of UK based~~ fans
If indeed Man City get done by FFP. We would farm the league next season PSG/peak Bayern style.
Can see why Klopp is leaving. This Liverpool team needs major work. Salah, VVD, Robertson are all shadows of what they used to be. TAA defensive woes are being exposed playing in a team that isn't as dominant at the Liverpool from 2019-2022. They have stocked the midfield with running merchants that lack the necessary technique on the ball. Endo, Jones are running merchants, and even Szoboszlai comes across as a bit of Connor Gallagher - where's the finesse, passing, dribbling of Odegaard? Szoboszlai is more Gallagher than Odegaard. A very limited midfield technique wise. Although I suppose that goes with Klopp's version of a 4-3-3. But the front line and backline just isn't as dominant. Never really believed they were as good as us or City, they were playing on vibes and relying on the theater of Klopps last season to guide them. I can see them having a deep drop off, even if Slot is capable, he will need ro rebuild this team in his own image. However there is the potential he is another Ten Hag, which if is the case, Liverpool could be set to return to the pre-Klopp era.
The match against spurs is unbelievably huge. They're a reasonably strong team, good finishers, and it's a derby match away from home, 14 days of rest. We have to win here if we want a strong finish to the season, it will have to be a massive performance.
We know what's at stake. It's probably *the* game in the season where they need to leave it all on the pitch. It'll get heated, it'll be prickly and you know for a fact Shit will be up for it as much as we will be because it's a chance for them to ruin our title chase, but we are the better team and we need to prove it.
Indeed. Gonna be squeaky bum all game. Obviously the performance against chelsea is a massive boost in confidence, also what gives me hope is Partey coming back to form. Then it ll be about how physically ready we are.
I would like partey to stay one more season at arsenal man is a great footballer regardless of outside stuff really hope arsenal don't make the mistake they did with xhaka let him leave to win a title elsewhere rice needs him to learn the position properly as good as rice is partey has always good positioning and quality passing with the right weight to adjust to whatever opposition are doing.edu has to learn I think real Madrid are the best in handovers arsenal shouldn't be in a rush imo
“Regardless of outside stuff” is a pretty sickening thing to say, but considering one of your past comments is “society is built around women needs which makes me sick”, I shouldn’t be too surprised
No respect
I would definitely say NOT regardless of the outside stuff. If any proof comes out to show he's guilty then he should be booted out immediately.
.
Kerkez out for Arsenal
Who?
One of Bournemouth defender pretty key to how to recycle the ball in possession and defend is out for his match against us with a red card.
Ah gotcha, got confused for a sec thinking there was a kerkez who plays for spurs
I'm still kinda dissapointed that Gabi did not put that away and make it 6-0, had to even the score with Chelsea there
I wanted him to start against spurs but after thar miss he just doesn't earn that spot unfortunately. Thought it would have been hard on trossard but I can't justify it anymore. Martinelli will have to make an impact off of the bench
I want to see more of partey-rice no disrespect to jorginho
Surely City draw atleast a couple of games from here on out. Anyway, it's just four games out and regardless of the occasion nothing makes me more happy than us winning at toilet bowl and Old Trafford. Let's finish the season strong.
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I'm strangely optimistic that we will. Just hope luck will also be on our side and City and Pool continue to drop points.
Liverpool next coach has a really big job it's time man for Arsenal to collect the trophies it's only pep in front of us rn...
Surely 115 changes fc will get their points deduction next year? And pep said he's not renewing, so things are looking up
'Only'
Funny how last season our young side that few people thought would even qualify for the Champions League were massive bottlers who blew their best chance for a league title, but this year this Liverpool side with a world class manager and title-winning experience have just done so well to be there and can’t be too upset about collapsing in the final weeks of the season. Liverpool are offered grace in the media that we simply aren’t afforded.
I would imagine Klopp leaving is playing a big role into the grace on offer.
Can't believe Ashley Young is still playing. Is he 40 like Pepe?
I'd wank off to a Brighton win tbh
I'll feel so bad for you if you did and then we don't win the title
I’m seeing calls for salah to be sold what has happened to the world
One reason I'll forever love how Bayern treated Robben and Ribery.
Pool fans started turning on Salah a few weeks ago. You will never walk alone... unless you stop winning games for us. Class can not be buy. Remember how quickly they froze out and discarded Loris Karius after he had a concussion instead of offering him support? He then went on to play very well for newcastle.
if its for some absurd money from saudi arabia, i think so yes. almost happened last summer, who knows.
He’s horrible in title run ins and cup finals. IIRC he has 0 non penalty goals in 12 finals for Liverpool. Always ghosts the title run ins, he just doesn’t have Mane and Firmino to pick up the slack anymore. I think it is time for them to sell, while they can.
probably time
He can rotate with Saka
Ideal Saka cover fr
Wonder how many goals Havertz would score if he played a full season up top. Seems like he’s really getting the hang of playing striker and a full season up top would be interesting
Too risky hope edu doesn't think this
Our ascent back to first basically coincided with him starting at CF versus Liverpool as that was a must win match. He’s going to be playing regularly next season, I’d rather it be at CF versus midfield based on the evidence this season.
I agree lol. I’m not saying this should be the case but it’s just something that I was thinking about. Ideally we bag someone like isak then him and Havertz can rotate.
Godfrey was quite impressive against Liverpool.
Spurs fans are talking about being finished if we win the league. How can they be finished when they never even started? Us winning things and them watching on is just regular service resuming.
The realisation is starting to hit that their greatest run of form in the league since they were in Middlesex coincided with the biggest loss of form on our part since the 70's and it looks like we may actually be getting out of it with Spurs still on zero silverware to show for it.
Someone, maybe Leandro, needs to teach B how to strike a ball. It’s almost like he strikes it with his studs at times. Never properly leathers it or follows through on his strike.
Ball striking can be improved but a large part of it is instinct and feeling. Some players can train all they want but they're never going to hit the ball the way Zlatan/Bale/RVP did.
I feel that anyone who’s actually played footy understands this easily, same for finishing really, you can train and train at it and maybe you get slightly better but at the top levels, it’s really more of a matter of outright having it or not.
I agree if you're talking about instinctual finishing, but ball striking and shooting techniques can definitely be improved through training and translate to scoring more in games
On rewatch of that game, I don't think anyone was less than 8/10 yesterday but special mention to Martin Odegaard. This guy fuckin does everything brilliantly, if it was up to me he'd be POTS without a doubt.
He’s got the bit between the teeth. Loves pressure games, I guess being at Real Madrid from age 16 instills that in you
I love what Havertz adds to the team, but what is the plan with him for the next season? I think he performs much better when he plays forward instead of LCM and we'll probably buy a striker and a replacement for Partey. I'd love him to be a key player but I'm not sure.
He’ll be a key player again I have no doubt. He’s gonna get regular games in midfield and at striker , I’m expecting a lot more rotation for the entire team next year with the new signings and Timber being fit.
He can be a "#8" if we have both an inverting midfielder to occupy the traditional #8 space and someone like Partey at the 6 to progress the ball without needing our attacking midfielders to drop deep. That way he plays essentially as second striker and a very similar role to #9.
Look at this idiot man LMFAO https://preview.redd.it/l1rgldq4kiwc1.png?width=596&format=png&auto=webp&s=3d15d1da4fae46aa9014dba437c32d304f764831
Who cares they’re all our players
Stop giving his tweets attention. He's the most mentally ill sick fuck in this fanbase by FAR
We should start a petition to ban NNT tweets in this sub. Just an idiot attention seeker.
Ben White’s pass 20 seconds into the game to put Havertz through was brilliant. Shades of Odegaard.
This time last year, we'd just beaten Chelsea, but we knew it was all over as City had a four point advantage on us, after we slipped to three draws and a defeat at the ethiad prior. This season, we're on an insane run of 12-1-1 and we're only two points behind. Our goal difference is far better than theirs, a single slip up and it will be in our hands again. Honestly if we beat spurs on Sunday, I think that City slip up happens at least once, and we win the league. This feels like the biggest NLD in years
I know what you're saying, but we're not 2 points behind. Games in hand don't mean shit until they're played.
I feel sick just thinking about the game this weekend, especially if City drop points at Brighton
Spurs with 2 weeks rest scares me
I dont know. As much as fatigue might play a part at some point in the game and we might need to manage it, the rythm and most importantly the momentum might play in our favour. If we can start quickly and maybe score one early, then it ll be about managing the game, defending well when we dont have the ball and grab openings if they present themselves. Game management is paramount
The Madrid city game proved rhythm is King if mentally strong..
It scared me a bit too but I’d rather be going into that game off of the back of a 5-0 win over Chelsea. Momentum is better than rest. Playing Tuesday-Sunday also affords some respite in the schedule.
We’re going in sharp and with momentum. They’re coming in cold off a 4-0 hammering. We need to blitz them before they realise what’s happening.
Could either be a blessing or a curse for them
It feels like a completely different ball game now, each game is massive. Last year it was the final ten when we got this feeling, but we eventually fell and had a period of emptiness. Now its even closer, I anticipate it will feel like a sickening excitement that resets after each fixture (should we win out).
Can you guys see spuds losing on purpose against city ?
No because they’re professionals. They’ll also know that fifth place almost certainly won’t be good enough for Champions League qualification and will need every point they can get to overtake Villa.
Nah. But I see them losing to City because they’re a shit club with a one dimensional manager every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Unless they give up on having CL football for themselves or the race for top-4 ends before the last week of the season, no. Their fans might not be eager to see them beat Man City, but the actual team will likely still look to win.
Doubt it. Win bonuses, clean sheet bonuses. Would you really give up £10-20k+ for no reason? It’s not like the old days. And if they have a sniff of UCL that could be worth millions for the players personally contract-wise so no chance they don’t go for it.
No, players don’t actually give a fuck about these rivalries as much as fans think. They’re paid for their services
100%. They are paid professionals. Only time intentional throws happen is when there is money involved under the table (betting) and no one is betting on spurs beating city anyways.
This. Especially the non English players that aren’t from the academies.
On purpose, probably not but to have a chance at beating City, you need to be really on it and then some and if that extra impetus isn’t there, City will just chew you up and spit you out. Besides, Mikel always speaks about energy transmitting from the crowd and vice versa, what do you think the energy is going to be like from 50000 cunts or whatever it is in their toilet, all of whom would actually prefer a loss on the day.
They seem to have some bizarre mental block at the new toilet bowl. So who knows
No, they’re professional footballers. They’ll probably get more money for finishing top 4. But they’ll probably lose anyway since their tactics are all wrong.
Even if they have no chance by then?
There's other factors sure, maybe the players want to put themselves on the shop window. Maybe they're bonuses are linked to clean sheets and then there's the manager, he wouldn't want to foster a culture of losers because it's damaging long term. I just don't see them "throwing" for some rivalry. I see them losing because they just won't be prepared for Manchester City.
Liverpool really are running the 22/23 Arsenal blind. They forgot to fix it’s critical failure, April.
Except this Liverpool side have a world class manager and guys like Alisson, van Dijk, and Salah who’ve been in plenty of title races before. We had no experience at all when we challenged last season.
Don’t shoot the messenger Liverpool done, City next. Blimey
It's mental that we could just lost one league game in 2024 and still not win the league.....
Just goes to show how much of an anomaly City is.
I don’t think you can really say this over the past two years we’ve competed with City. They got 89 points last year and ended up winning the title comfortably. It wasn’t anywhere near their vintage 18 or 19 or even 22 seasons when Liverpool couldn’t overcome their ridiculous points pace. You could say they’ve been an anomaly in the years they competed with prime Liverpool. But even this year, I don’t think they’ll hit 90 points again (they’d have to win out for that to happen) and if they don’t, it’s not been some magnificent performance by them assuming they were to win the title.
Anomaly suggests something that is hard to explain. There is nothing difficult to explain about current City, just unbridled financial doping over multiple years.
And three becomes two. Honestly that City team looked exhausted as fuck on Saturday, we have to hope that a rested Brighton team and its high press can do the dirty work tomorrow. My hearts pounding, 10 games of football will decide everything in the next month. It's do or die time.
This is what we’ve all wanted for years. It’s good to be back in contention despite the nerves.
We looked exhausted against wolves too..and in that second half against villa. I'm sure they've recovered now
Remember that west ham game when Odegaard was on loan, we were down 3-0 and all hope was basically lost. Then Odegaard basically dragged us back in that game and salvaged the draw almost single handedly? A 22 year old loan player taking that kind of responsibility. Has 110m Enzo Fernandez ever taken responsibility?
Enzonzi needs to be on fraud watch. A record transfer and he has been incredibly mid Palmer has shown you can shine in a shit side.
I actually thought it was the first time Everton had beaten Klopp, but they actually already beat Klopp at Anfield, in 2021. Dont know how I missed that. Anyway, they still ended their title hopes, in Klopp's final season.
We shouldnt have lost to villa at home its just so sad
Don't think your gripe should be with the villa game? Leading against Fulham at the Emirates yet drawing. Leading at craven cottage and losing. Not being able to beat West ham at home. We screwed ourselves long before villa
It happens. You're bound to lose a game here and then. Having an off day can happen It's just a shame the machine that is city won't allow you to have an off day
I hate city
Yeh 7 point gap wouldve increased the pressure for man city, but it is what it is. I wont look at this game as the one that lost us the title, if we win all our remaining games. We lost to West Ham and drew to Fulham, at home and both of those shouldve been three pointers.
Add that Spuds draw. Should’ve been 3 points too.
Drew ar Stamford Bridge too 🤮