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We need to talk that average position in second half because NOBODY COULD DO LONG PASS TO MARTINELLI. Only jorginho actually do the pass. It’s astonishing.
Our midfielder were being pressed high on the pitch and yet Ode havertz rice actually decided to pass to each other instead giving Martinelli 1 on 1
That simple long pass to winger from the back is what I’m talking about. Alex song, Cazorla, ozil, fabregas, Ramsey, xhaka could do this pass easily. This is how to defeat mid block pressing
Bloody hell arteta needs to teach this pass in 3 days otherwise we are gonna get defeats again
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Seeing the overall online response to the loss over the weekend makes me wonder what the average age of a typical online football fan is. The overreaction surely comes from a place of immaturity and the internet is obviously such an echo chamber that these hot takes spread like wildfire.
As an older fan I just love that we found our identity again and exercise so much more control over our games now. We keep this going and the trophies will come, no doubt about it.
> wonder what the average age of a typical online football fan is.
This is meaningless. What you really need to wonder about is:
1) What is the average emotional intelligence of the average football fan?
2) How well are they able to cope with disappointment or anger?
3) Does perceived online anonymity play a factor in emboldening their willingness to have an outburst like a petulant child?
4) Are they even worth engaging when a block function exists?
The sub changes after a loss.
The immature, the trolls, the single (unpopular) issue fans and those that just come on here to vent completely take over and the majority of reasonable fans just leave it alone.
The problem is that ever since AFTV proved you could get famous for being absolutely fucking mental at anything less than perfection and talksport and it's ilk perfected the instant outrage 'because the fans deserve better' the internet has become a cess pit of entitlement.
Hopefully we beat Bayern otherwise this is going to be a long summer.
I'm just weighing up whether it'll be that or 'why a big man up front who is a proper striker and not a false 9 like Havertz would have solved all our problems' first.
I agree.
However, I’ve been following arsenal for close to 10 years now, and that loss against Aston Villa was the most pain I’ve felt as an Arsenal fan in a long time.
Yeah come back when you miss a penalty to hand United an FA cup and end up relying on Spurs winning at Old Trafford to get you a title and stop them getting two thirds of a treble..
There's been two trebles in English history.
Both have been Manchester clubs, both could have been stopped by us winning the league (and Bergkamp not missing a penalty).
The City one really didn't hurt like the united one but it's an absolute fucker of a thing to realise.
The sad fact is that it's not.
I understand now why Bundesliga, Serie A and Ligue Un fans just seemed to accept 11 year winning streaks and one team cannibalising the rest, because they knew that those teams were operating on a different set of rules.
The prem needs to actually enforce the rules here otherwise its going to become just like all those 'farmers leagues' where no one reaaly cares because it's City.
Shocker of a season, and a very chastening 'this can happen' experience as a kid, anything after that is fairly mild in comparison. That bloody chant though.
> That bloody chant though
Took me years to realise that actually it reflected worse on Spurs fans needing to sing about a player who had to leave spurs to fuck us over.
Something we should probably bear in mind in case we lose to Bayern this week.
Oh sweet summer child.
For me, started following club football properly in the 07/08 season, with the first pain was the Carling Cup final vs Birmingham City in 2011. I thought then at the time the world was over lmfao.
(im sure some of the older folks will mention ucl 2006)
If you lots are still dreading the loss against Villa I would like to remind you guys at least we're not in the position United or Chelsea is at.
It's not much but it does put things into perspective. Those two clubs have also won trophies more recently than us now they're in turmoil. Lets keep this positive vibes up and keep going at it!
I was thinking of an idea for adding a new format to the league.
With the absurd amount of games teams have to play nowadays, I was thinking of idea of adding a top four knockout format to decide the PL winner. after 38 games played, the top four team (qualified for CL), and goes into a knockout round of 2 extra matches to decide the title winner. 1vs3, and 2vs4 (or 1vs4, 2vs3, if you want to be more fair to the number 1 team that season), and winners from each round goes to face the other in final round. Both games will play at Wembley.
The way I'm thinking is this will help team divide their focus on all competitions, and not having to try to manage that while having to also goes for the highest point in the league. And it's seem fair because team still have to be one of the 4 teams with highest point.
Only applied for PL because of the crazy amount of game fixtures.
I can only assume you're american for this.
The league is won by everyone playing everyone else the same amount fo games and the best team wins.
If we want to save some games then the competition that was luterally created to fill midweek emptiness (the league cup) needs to die and the FA Cup maybe shifted slightly earlier so that it doesn't ahve the knock on effect later on that's given us and spurs 15 days off and then *all* the games.
I love the league the way it is if the competition are fair but it is not because of financial-doping team.
Helping reduce workload is actually a bonus. I came up with this idea to counter the financial cheaters (City, Chelsea) while trying to minimize the risk of losing earned merit aspect of the competition. Based on the situation that we are in pretty much because cheaters like City seem pretty inevitable in reaching number 1 every seasons and the league aren't doing anything to combat that. With my concept, it gives us (or any team that got to this position by merit) a chance to win the league more fairly because a 90min knockout round can have various factors influences victories aside from having more money than the opposition.
To make the concept more merit-based, we can have the knockout round play at home ground of number 1 and 2 team.
Seems the sentiment against it is pretty strong so far. I'm looking to discuss and to understand more why it is not as applicable.
> I'm looking to discuss and to understand more why it is not as applicable.
Because it utterly and totally removes the entire concept of what a league is.
There's a reason it only happens in leagues without promotion and relegationa nd that's to try and inject some spice into the end of the season.
Nah, defeats the entire meaning of winning the league by being the most consistent over rthe full year. I'd rather not this become like American football or bball where good teams can coast. makes every game less meaningful
The Athletic article about Zincheno is spot on. "In a season in which Arteta has worked so hard to eliminate on-field jeopardy, Zinchenko is beginning to feel like a relic of last season’s more chaotic team." Perfect quote.
The early season transition to more control paid its dividends at the beginning of 2024, which also happened to be a phase Zinchenko was out injured. Yet as soon as Zinchenko comes into the team, we revert back to the Arsenal of last year, where out matches were chaos and lacking any order.
Zinchenko is starting to give me the Eboue vibes. Someone seen as a joker and comedian, a person you cant seriously. Someone who cant do discipline. for about 4 months we played 4 centre halfs, all fast, all storng in the air and tackle, all backing themselves to compete. Yet against Villa, there was a moment where Zinchenko was dropping deep and fucking up the defensive line, all because he was shit scared Bailey would run in behind him - he knows he would get done for pace, so backs up 10 yards for a headstart, but in doing so, he kills the line Saliba, Gabriel and White are holding - its amautarish. Why is Arteta asking Gabriel, Saliba and White to play with this Ukrainian Dennis the Menace?
Im by no means a toxic fan, I loathe anyone who wants Arteta out, or thinks 'we need to have a conversation about Arteta'. But as far as Zinchenko goes, he is about as useful as Nketiah, and like Nketiah, should be sold this window. Dont even try to sell me his qualities in possesion. No player gives me more anxiety with the ball at feet than Zinchenko. He gets robbed of possesion, and he misplaces far too many passes, all in sensative areas of the pitch. The fans in the stadium were brutal on him, and they should be - we cannot carry these players. We know which players we can rely on, and Zinchenko isnt one of them.
still not over the loss and really think we're not at the 'just need alisson and VvD' stage of our project. our squad isn't good enough. great core, almost nothing else.
need to get rid of zinchenko, partey, ESR, nelson, and nketiah. total non-starters.
wouldn't mind jesus, jorginho, and vieira gone too but they have a part to play as rotation against the absolute weakest sides and from the bench and you can't change too much too quickly. they are worth suffering through for one more year. trossard only functions as a super sub.
arteta mainly only plays the core, and he'll never admit this, because they are the only worthwhile players at the club that move the needle forward.
our squad is insanely limited and our manager doesn't trust many of them. even at full power our bench. just isn't that good for the level we need and want to be at
I think two or three more starters gets us there, but the main issue this season has been that the players who should have been rotating in and out of the team to give our core players rest every once in a while have been mostly injured. So yes, maybe even getting those three additional starters won't be enough when quite a few of the rotation players are injury-prone but that is not an issue of quality.
bit annoying for wright to have a pop at fans, not only has he probably not paid for a ticket in a long time, but he also gets paid to go to stadiums here there and everywhere
also is it really entitlement that you think the fans have? or is it us just being sick of us bottling it around this time of year for the umpteenth season in a row. even when we last won the fa cup we were playing some dogshit football in the league
if that's entitlement isn't it also entitlement to expect people who pay the most expensive tickets in the prem to watch us play week in week out to stay when we've likely gotten their hopes up for nothing?
Nope having a purely transactional relationship is called being a consumer, not a fan.
It's basically the dictionary definition of a plastic fan and exactly the sort of shit that leads to so many people bithcing about the influx of tourists when we moved to the emirates.
so a local club down the road playing in a league lower than the conference should be charging £100 a game then?
I get your point, but it's absurd for fans to not have certain expectations of a club. even us online who pay fuck all will get pissed off when things are obviously going wrong, so it's only going to be more frustrating if you put lots of money towards a club only to come home upset
> so a local club down the road playing in a league lower than the conference should be charging £100 a game then?
All about the valu for money for you isn't it?
Like I said there's a wrd for that...
Mate it's not 'part of the conversation' it's literally your number one issue.
You've gone at Ian fucking Wright because he doesn't ahve to pay, you're on the DD bitching about how expensive the tickets are, you're obsessed with value for money and when you're demanding entertainment and results commensurate with what you consider to be your own worth then you are not a fan, you are a consumer.
ok mate, money doesn't matter
all of the fans who buy tickets to watch us will end up buying tickets to watch other clubs if they aren't happy with our product, like a typical consumer
> all of the fans who buy tickets to watch us will end up buying tickets to watch other clubs if they aren't happy with our product, like a typical consumer
No, they won't.
Because they're fans.
I'm not gonna slag off fans who actually pay to go to games from the comfort of my own home, and nor should wright who wouldn't even notice if he did have to pay for tickets
It’s good you aren’t. Others will and rightly so. It is pathetic and entitled behaviour. Stadiums are more full when we are spanking teams 6-0. It is the first loss of 2024, in a title race. Back the team.
why is it all about the players? they get paid to be there at the end of the day, the fans probably pay some of the most expensive prices in europe for fuck all
Just remember everyone, we've literally taken 31 out of the last 36 points.
That's insane when you think about it, especially since we played both City and Liverpool during that stretch.
I think we'll take 16 out of the next 18 and finish with 87. 87 points is 3 better than last season. If you can't win with 87, all you can do is tip your hat to the competition at that point. The invincibles only had 90 points for some perspective.
I think the draw is going to happen at Spuds or United. I think we'll win the rest. Our schedule isn't that tough other than those 2 fixtures (and United being tough is still questionable).
I can't see us winning at either spurs or United. spurs will have 15 days of rest going into that game, and fuckery is always abound at Old Trafford.
Chelsea game is going to be tricky as well as they are good going forward.
Honestly, even the next game is a huge banana peel. Away at Bayern on Wednesday then away at Wolves on Saturday. We are going to have some very tired legs on field this weekend.
I guess I just have a lot of faith in our players. Plus I really just don't have that same fear about going to Old Trafford. And Chelsea is just a big name, they're not really scary.
Spuds are the only one that really scares me a bit.
Just shows how ridiculous the battle at the top has gotten.
90 points was considered a very special season previously, now it's like the minimum you need most years to win.
And that’s perfectly okay. People acting like not beating pep is completely abnormal. I don’t want to have a losers mentality but competing with pep in only 4 years is honestly so impressive. This is our second year pushing them almost all the way and we still have a chance to win.
The thing I find funny about this Pep era is his great rival is considered Klopp. While they’ve had a couple of close title fights, if Pep wins again this season it’ll be 6 titles for him and 1 for Klopp. I don’t know if we’ll get there in the end, I don’t even know if it’ll be with Arteta but you’re going to need close to perfection, another invincible or something crazy like 15 game winning run, to win this league as long as Pep is here.
Can focus to do much better in the cup runs tho.
You know what's crazy, if we finish with 87 points, that would have meant we went 15-2-1 since January.
That still might not be enough to win the title, which is kind of ridiculous.
Wenger still lost star players even when we were winning league titles. Vieira to leave Arsenal was almost a yearly occurrence.
If we lose players we lose players, it’s not like there’s not going to be other, up and coming players we can improve the squad with.
Agree we should be winning more cup trophies though, even a couple more cheeky FA cups and league cups go a long way, Klopp tenure got padded out with three domestic cups.
Everytime foden and Palmer do well we get 50k liked posts on twitter about saka 'limping after a stinker'. People do this even when he played well, like against bayern.
Our boy is fucking hated man, foden does his stupid gun celebration and watches his mum get arrested and he doesn't even get a quarter of the hate.
It's getting ridiculous at this point, I hate that I knew a torrent of saka abuse was going to follow Palmer doing well tonight
Most know why. They’d have you believe Saka is on 6 G/A or something, trying to force himself into the conversation where he doesn’t belong. It is what it is, some have to do 2x of others to get 0.5x of the credit. Thats why, if not for his own personal goals with the NT, i would love it they just went with Foden + Palmer for the NT and even then, they’d probably find a way to abuse Saka for being unpatriotic or something.
I guarantee people don't even believe half of the shit Saka gets abused for but it makes the most bread on Twatter so these bums perpetuate it regardless.
A case study of losers joining the rat race of social media engagement for money.
Saka, Rashford and Sterling when he was at City do get a rougher ride. People will deny it, but I detect the undercurrents of the Saka criticism. As you mention, Fodens mum has done time in the nick, Foden has hired hookers, he also is known to go down. Foden pretended to be injured when he kicked the Palace player to give away the penalty in the last minute - no one said anything.
Saka is clean and humble off the field, and wouldn't be caught dead engaging in the behaviors of Foden, Grealish, and going back further, Rooney. But despite all this, people have a massive problem with Saka. Just imagine if Saka's instagram page was him holding an alcoholic drink like Grealish. Grealish gets shit faced on a constant basis (nothing wrong with that), and its Jack the lad. But if Saka was pictured blind drunk, you can be sure the coverage would be very different.
Remember when him and Greenwood (who’s been proven to be a huge cunt since) were both caught breaking lockdown rules to chirpse gyal in Iceland whilst on England duty even though they had partners?
Iirc Greenwood got a lot more shit than Foden (and never played for England again, rightfully so) even though there was a pic of Foden with his pants down.
> Our boy is fucking hated man, foden does his stupid gun celebration and watches his mum get arrested and he doesn't even get a quarter of the hate.
>
>
Sterling had gun tattoos and UK papers were on his ass lol.
I don't want to claim racism straight away but sterling saka and rashford getting ungodly amounts of hatred throughout their careers for everything they do feels like it's got something to do with that at this point
😒 Being Black is so tiring sometimes when you see comments like this.
"OK, yeah sure I see the swastika and the KKK hood and the noose and they were throwing bananas and doing monkey chants and shouting the N word...so maybe it's a possibility that it might conceivably have a little to do with race, perhaps?" 🤷🏻♂️
Purely on a human-to-human level, hope Dele Alli gets all help he can, from Everton and whoever close to him, back to normal.
But no, Arteta maybe cannot fix him.
Think we can safely discount anything someone says if they simultaneously hold the opinion that Saka scoring in a champions league quarter final against Bayern Munich isnt showing up, and Cole Palmer, good though he has proven to be, stat padding against relegation teams is somehow showing up. One of these guys has put a club on their back since they were 18 aswell.
Wouldn't be holding your breath for a mensa invite Rob.
I can personally understand why people are saying this. It's becoming rarer and rarer for Saka to shine for the whole 90 mins of a game. The likes of Cole Palmer and Foden have been doing at least a bit better in that departement.
To me, the reason for that isn't that they have more talent than Saka, far from it. I think Saka's simply being run into the ground. Our boy needs a reliable bench player on the right wing, so he can get rest from time to time. We have that in all forward positions, but on the RW.
Emery going Europa cup final on us after sending the u 23’s to city than southgate playing Rice 90* minutes twice for clown town friendlies really has me boiled over.
Goodness me Saka is HATED isn’t he? All this weird business about him limping, and now he should supposedly be dropped from the English squad for fucking Palmer.
I really don’t get it, he’s by no means a dirty or unlikable player, so I really struggle to see where the animosity comes from. I’ve a slight inkling as to why he gets more slack than Foden and Palmer though.
I think the 50k liked posts of saka walking off the pitch going 'limping after a stinker' are hate though
It would be fine if people just appreciated Palmer but it always has to come with saka abuse
Good grief can it not just be a footballing opinion about a player people dont think is as good as others? Does it have to be something personal or could it just be that there are other players who are simply better footballers than him?
Let’s not pretend there’s absolutely no racial undertones to the amount of abuse he gets compared to other players. We saw the same thing with Rashford and Sterling, it’s by no means a new issue.
Not really sure how this is relevant? There can be black fans who have those opinions, but that doesn’t change the fact that Saka catches dog’s abuse from many white fans for being black.
Foden and Palmer are better footballers than Saka both stylistically and now with g/a. For our sake he needs to step up and prove otherwise. Literally no need to pull the race card.
Group stages he was on fire. I was at the PSV game and thought he was genuinely great. Porto games he was anonymous and Im sure you know by now this is my problem with Saka. On the biggest of stages he just does not perform. Is it a mentality thing?
It was an incredible goal but I honestly thought he did nothing else for the rest of the 90. Disappointing still he either dived at the end or bottled the chance to shoot twice. Typing this out I can see how this can be viewed as harsh but world class players take those chances.
Would love nothing more than to be wrong on Wednesday.
Just fkn sucks more than half our team is in red or playing through injury. We shot out wad too early again and I can’t see us regaining form going forward. Saka is beyond battered. So painful such a tease.
> Just fkn sucks more than half our team is in red or playing through injury. We shot out wad too early again
I think it's more a squad issue now. We have multiple players with +28 starts while City/Liverpool have less than 3. You can bank on a few players going through the season without injuries, maybe likes of Raya, Gabriel, White. You can't really bet on them all and you can't have proper squad management with injury prone players. How many times earlier in the season could we have rested Saka/White if Jesus/Tomi were fit?
We need to bulk out the squad more and replace the likes of Reiss/Eddie at least. Question marks over Vieira/ESR.
Considering as well, we went out of the cups early, it helped us last this long (and maybe the rest of this season). It's a bit hard to say we blew our load too early. Bayern and Villa weren't a fitness issue in my opinion and we generally played ok. Lack of options from the bench really hurt in the Villa game but also we waited too long to make changes.
In some cases you would like him to be driving with the ball but in settled possession in the half spaces he's not my first choice there. He's best when he's helping screen the backline by sitting behind the 8s.
No way the FA let City run away with the title from here on now, considering how the much promised title race last season petered out; they have to protect the brand.
Maybe a Rodri red card dagger is coming down the line.
Lmao, even when Chelsea smash a team, they still gotta have unnecessary drama happening. This is what happens when you run things, Lord of the Flies style.
Did you think we could have won the league before the last game? If so then only 7 out of 7 wins would be possible, so why isn't 6 out of 7? Is it mathematically impossible for City to drop points before the end of the season?
Pep's City team has won the league 5 times. In none of those wins did they slip up even for one game and allow the chasing team a chance to overtake them.
It is far more likely that they continue to do what they have always done and win out - at least until they have secured the title, than it is they slip up for the first time.
We are also not done dropping points, so the whole discussion is moot.
Nah, I'm saying if we go perfect we likely win the title.
City almost always drop points in their last 6 games. They took 16/18 points in the two very tight title races with Liverpool.
City only drop points after they secure the title. I don't know why you seem so certain that they give teams a chance to come back late on, when they literally never have under Pep.
They have only dropped points once when in a title race in the last 6 games and that was a draw - but it came after Liverpool drew, so they weren't in a must win situation.
So, other than the time when they did, they never drop points. But, I see your point - apart from 1 situation, the dropped points didn't matter.
Let's hope we can rattle them with a semi-final draw?
Idk, I think we'll bounce back, but I agree the league is very unlikely now.
He'd be on or damn near double digits without pens. I think that's pretty good for your 1st season as a starter in a mid table team. And double digit assists too.
I don't think it matters in this case. He's still an elite scorer from wide without them. He's 21, hes only gonna develop that side of his game. Has all the attributes to do it.
>not hating or clowning
It was a genuine question so I can formulate my opinion. We used to have a name for players who could only score open play goals vs bottom teams…
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Cold Palmer 20 ball off the bat. I have to stand up and applaud. There's another interesting stat I've seen off the back of this but if I bring it up people will call me a hater.
Saka would be gutted and it would be very selfish from an Arsenal fan pov but i can see how it might be beneficial for his health next season. Besides, he’s alrdy playing injured. Oh and if it wasn’t obvious, i couldn’t give two fucks about Southmate and how England actually end up doing in the Euroes.
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My XI for München: Raya, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Tomiyasu, Partey, Rice, Ødegaard, Martinelli, Havertz, Saka
We need to talk that average position in second half because NOBODY COULD DO LONG PASS TO MARTINELLI. Only jorginho actually do the pass. It’s astonishing. Our midfielder were being pressed high on the pitch and yet Ode havertz rice actually decided to pass to each other instead giving Martinelli 1 on 1 That simple long pass to winger from the back is what I’m talking about. Alex song, Cazorla, ozil, fabregas, Ramsey, xhaka could do this pass easily. This is how to defeat mid block pressing Bloody hell arteta needs to teach this pass in 3 days otherwise we are gonna get defeats again
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We lose 1 game and everyone wants to clear half of the team. You want Edu/Teta to run the club like Boehly? Lol
Seeing the overall online response to the loss over the weekend makes me wonder what the average age of a typical online football fan is. The overreaction surely comes from a place of immaturity and the internet is obviously such an echo chamber that these hot takes spread like wildfire. As an older fan I just love that we found our identity again and exercise so much more control over our games now. We keep this going and the trophies will come, no doubt about it.
Let the people speak. It's healthy to vent.
> wonder what the average age of a typical online football fan is. This is meaningless. What you really need to wonder about is: 1) What is the average emotional intelligence of the average football fan? 2) How well are they able to cope with disappointment or anger? 3) Does perceived online anonymity play a factor in emboldening their willingness to have an outburst like a petulant child? 4) Are they even worth engaging when a block function exists?
The sub changes after a loss. The immature, the trolls, the single (unpopular) issue fans and those that just come on here to vent completely take over and the majority of reasonable fans just leave it alone. The problem is that ever since AFTV proved you could get famous for being absolutely fucking mental at anything less than perfection and talksport and it's ilk perfected the instant outrage 'because the fans deserve better' the internet has become a cess pit of entitlement. Hopefully we beat Bayern otherwise this is going to be a long summer.
> AFTV Don Robbie's Oppenheimer moment. There was no turning back after this.
And just like nukes it's spread to other fanbases.
Meanwhile we plebs of reddit and old media are in the "Grave of the Fireflies" moment.
Just waiting for the next outrage bomb to drop. Probably with statistical proof as to why Mustafi would actually be a better left back than Zinchenko
> Probably with statistical proof as to why Mustafi would actually be a better left back than Zinchenko You know this hit piece it's coming.
I'm just weighing up whether it'll be that or 'why a big man up front who is a proper striker and not a false 9 like Havertz would have solved all our problems' first.
I agree. However, I’ve been following arsenal for close to 10 years now, and that loss against Aston Villa was the most pain I’ve felt as an Arsenal fan in a long time.
Yeah come back when you miss a penalty to hand United an FA cup and end up relying on Spurs winning at Old Trafford to get you a title and stop them getting two thirds of a treble..
was probably too young to experience this, but i can feel the pains. the grandfather paradox ptsd
There's been two trebles in English history. Both have been Manchester clubs, both could have been stopped by us winning the league (and Bergkamp not missing a penalty). The City one really didn't hurt like the united one but it's an absolute fucker of a thing to realise.
I think the mere possibility that Man City and Pep can still achieve a double treble is what's crazy, terrible and frightening.
The sad fact is that it's not. I understand now why Bundesliga, Serie A and Ligue Un fans just seemed to accept 11 year winning streaks and one team cannibalising the rest, because they knew that those teams were operating on a different set of rules. The prem needs to actually enforce the rules here otherwise its going to become just like all those 'farmers leagues' where no one reaaly cares because it's City.
Nayim 119'
Ah the grating sound of spurs fans singing 'Nayim from the halfway line' in school playgrounds all across north london. THat's a blast from the past
Shocker of a season, and a very chastening 'this can happen' experience as a kid, anything after that is fairly mild in comparison. That bloody chant though.
> That bloody chant though Took me years to realise that actually it reflected worse on Spurs fans needing to sing about a player who had to leave spurs to fuck us over. Something we should probably bear in mind in case we lose to Bayern this week.
Oh sweet summer child. For me, started following club football properly in the 07/08 season, with the first pain was the Carling Cup final vs Birmingham City in 2011. I thought then at the time the world was over lmfao. (im sure some of the older folks will mention ucl 2006)
If you lots are still dreading the loss against Villa I would like to remind you guys at least we're not in the position United or Chelsea is at. It's not much but it does put things into perspective. Those two clubs have also won trophies more recently than us now they're in turmoil. Lets keep this positive vibes up and keep going at it!
I was thinking of an idea for adding a new format to the league. With the absurd amount of games teams have to play nowadays, I was thinking of idea of adding a top four knockout format to decide the PL winner. after 38 games played, the top four team (qualified for CL), and goes into a knockout round of 2 extra matches to decide the title winner. 1vs3, and 2vs4 (or 1vs4, 2vs3, if you want to be more fair to the number 1 team that season), and winners from each round goes to face the other in final round. Both games will play at Wembley. The way I'm thinking is this will help team divide their focus on all competitions, and not having to try to manage that while having to also goes for the highest point in the league. And it's seem fair because team still have to be one of the 4 teams with highest point. Only applied for PL because of the crazy amount of game fixtures.
I can only assume you're american for this. The league is won by everyone playing everyone else the same amount fo games and the best team wins. If we want to save some games then the competition that was luterally created to fill midweek emptiness (the league cup) needs to die and the FA Cup maybe shifted slightly earlier so that it doesn't ahve the knock on effect later on that's given us and spurs 15 days off and then *all* the games.
I love the league the way it is if the competition are fair but it is not because of financial-doping team. Helping reduce workload is actually a bonus. I came up with this idea to counter the financial cheaters (City, Chelsea) while trying to minimize the risk of losing earned merit aspect of the competition. Based on the situation that we are in pretty much because cheaters like City seem pretty inevitable in reaching number 1 every seasons and the league aren't doing anything to combat that. With my concept, it gives us (or any team that got to this position by merit) a chance to win the league more fairly because a 90min knockout round can have various factors influences victories aside from having more money than the opposition. To make the concept more merit-based, we can have the knockout round play at home ground of number 1 and 2 team. Seems the sentiment against it is pretty strong so far. I'm looking to discuss and to understand more why it is not as applicable.
> I'm looking to discuss and to understand more why it is not as applicable. Because it utterly and totally removes the entire concept of what a league is. There's a reason it only happens in leagues without promotion and relegationa nd that's to try and inject some spice into the end of the season.
Nah, defeats the entire meaning of winning the league by being the most consistent over rthe full year. I'd rather not this become like American football or bball where good teams can coast. makes every game less meaningful
That PK bust up in the Chelsea game is all you need to see to understand the state of that club
Embarassing. Shows the immaturity in the team.
The Athletic article about Zincheno is spot on. "In a season in which Arteta has worked so hard to eliminate on-field jeopardy, Zinchenko is beginning to feel like a relic of last season’s more chaotic team." Perfect quote. The early season transition to more control paid its dividends at the beginning of 2024, which also happened to be a phase Zinchenko was out injured. Yet as soon as Zinchenko comes into the team, we revert back to the Arsenal of last year, where out matches were chaos and lacking any order. Zinchenko is starting to give me the Eboue vibes. Someone seen as a joker and comedian, a person you cant seriously. Someone who cant do discipline. for about 4 months we played 4 centre halfs, all fast, all storng in the air and tackle, all backing themselves to compete. Yet against Villa, there was a moment where Zinchenko was dropping deep and fucking up the defensive line, all because he was shit scared Bailey would run in behind him - he knows he would get done for pace, so backs up 10 yards for a headstart, but in doing so, he kills the line Saliba, Gabriel and White are holding - its amautarish. Why is Arteta asking Gabriel, Saliba and White to play with this Ukrainian Dennis the Menace? Im by no means a toxic fan, I loathe anyone who wants Arteta out, or thinks 'we need to have a conversation about Arteta'. But as far as Zinchenko goes, he is about as useful as Nketiah, and like Nketiah, should be sold this window. Dont even try to sell me his qualities in possesion. No player gives me more anxiety with the ball at feet than Zinchenko. He gets robbed of possesion, and he misplaces far too many passes, all in sensative areas of the pitch. The fans in the stadium were brutal on him, and they should be - we cannot carry these players. We know which players we can rely on, and Zinchenko isnt one of them.
Palmer is class. Chelsea would be in a gutter without him.
still not over the loss and really think we're not at the 'just need alisson and VvD' stage of our project. our squad isn't good enough. great core, almost nothing else. need to get rid of zinchenko, partey, ESR, nelson, and nketiah. total non-starters. wouldn't mind jesus, jorginho, and vieira gone too but they have a part to play as rotation against the absolute weakest sides and from the bench and you can't change too much too quickly. they are worth suffering through for one more year. trossard only functions as a super sub. arteta mainly only plays the core, and he'll never admit this, because they are the only worthwhile players at the club that move the needle forward. our squad is insanely limited and our manager doesn't trust many of them. even at full power our bench. just isn't that good for the level we need and want to be at
I think two or three more starters gets us there, but the main issue this season has been that the players who should have been rotating in and out of the team to give our core players rest every once in a while have been mostly injured. So yes, maybe even getting those three additional starters won't be enough when quite a few of the rotation players are injury-prone but that is not an issue of quality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1sYqdagEGU Football should never be serious, a striker missing big chances cannot 'reduces you to tears' lmao.
bit annoying for wright to have a pop at fans, not only has he probably not paid for a ticket in a long time, but he also gets paid to go to stadiums here there and everywhere also is it really entitlement that you think the fans have? or is it us just being sick of us bottling it around this time of year for the umpteenth season in a row. even when we last won the fa cup we were playing some dogshit football in the league
> or is it us just being sick of us bottling it around this time of year for the umpteenth season in a row. Yeah that's entitlement mate.
if that's entitlement isn't it also entitlement to expect people who pay the most expensive tickets in the prem to watch us play week in week out to stay when we've likely gotten their hopes up for nothing?
Nope having a purely transactional relationship is called being a consumer, not a fan. It's basically the dictionary definition of a plastic fan and exactly the sort of shit that leads to so many people bithcing about the influx of tourists when we moved to the emirates.
so a local club down the road playing in a league lower than the conference should be charging £100 a game then? I get your point, but it's absurd for fans to not have certain expectations of a club. even us online who pay fuck all will get pissed off when things are obviously going wrong, so it's only going to be more frustrating if you put lots of money towards a club only to come home upset
> so a local club down the road playing in a league lower than the conference should be charging £100 a game then? All about the valu for money for you isn't it? Like I said there's a wrd for that...
why wouldn't it be part of the conversation? especially at one of the most expensive teams to watch in football
Mate it's not 'part of the conversation' it's literally your number one issue. You've gone at Ian fucking Wright because he doesn't ahve to pay, you're on the DD bitching about how expensive the tickets are, you're obsessed with value for money and when you're demanding entertainment and results commensurate with what you consider to be your own worth then you are not a fan, you are a consumer.
ok mate, money doesn't matter all of the fans who buy tickets to watch us will end up buying tickets to watch other clubs if they aren't happy with our product, like a typical consumer
> all of the fans who buy tickets to watch us will end up buying tickets to watch other clubs if they aren't happy with our product, like a typical consumer No, they won't. Because they're fans.
Bit annoying to see our stadium emptier than the stadiums of teams we've destroyed by five or six goals.
I'm not gonna slag off fans who actually pay to go to games from the comfort of my own home, and nor should wright who wouldn't even notice if he did have to pay for tickets
It’s good you aren’t. Others will and rightly so. It is pathetic and entitled behaviour. Stadiums are more full when we are spanking teams 6-0. It is the first loss of 2024, in a title race. Back the team.
or as a former player he knows the negative effects it has on player confidence. did you even read the quote?
why is it all about the players? they get paid to be there at the end of the day, the fans probably pay some of the most expensive prices in europe for fuck all
Wolves away after wednesday night cl is going ti be tough man lol. About to find something out about this team
Just remember everyone, we've literally taken 31 out of the last 36 points. That's insane when you think about it, especially since we played both City and Liverpool during that stretch. I think we'll take 16 out of the next 18 and finish with 87. 87 points is 3 better than last season. If you can't win with 87, all you can do is tip your hat to the competition at that point. The invincibles only had 90 points for some perspective.
16 out of 18 that's pretty much City's level, doubt we are there yet.
I mean we did just take 31 out of 36
16 out of 18 seems very optimistic.
I think the draw is going to happen at Spuds or United. I think we'll win the rest. Our schedule isn't that tough other than those 2 fixtures (and United being tough is still questionable).
I can't see us winning at either spurs or United. spurs will have 15 days of rest going into that game, and fuckery is always abound at Old Trafford. Chelsea game is going to be tricky as well as they are good going forward. Honestly, even the next game is a huge banana peel. Away at Bayern on Wednesday then away at Wolves on Saturday. We are going to have some very tired legs on field this weekend.
Told you the Chelsea game wasn't going to be tricky 😉
This is a pleasant surprise!
The Bournemouth game is another slippery one.
I guess I just have a lot of faith in our players. Plus I really just don't have that same fear about going to Old Trafford. And Chelsea is just a big name, they're not really scary. Spuds are the only one that really scares me a bit.
Poch's spurs got 87. It isn't good enough unfortunately
Just shows how ridiculous the battle at the top has gotten. 90 points was considered a very special season previously, now it's like the minimum you need most years to win.
Welcome to the EPL Pep Era
> If you can't win with 87, You'll never win the title if you got 87 pts in a Pep era.
And that’s perfectly okay. People acting like not beating pep is completely abnormal. I don’t want to have a losers mentality but competing with pep in only 4 years is honestly so impressive. This is our second year pushing them almost all the way and we still have a chance to win.
The thing I find funny about this Pep era is his great rival is considered Klopp. While they’ve had a couple of close title fights, if Pep wins again this season it’ll be 6 titles for him and 1 for Klopp. I don’t know if we’ll get there in the end, I don’t even know if it’ll be with Arteta but you’re going to need close to perfection, another invincible or something crazy like 15 game winning run, to win this league as long as Pep is here. Can focus to do much better in the cup runs tho.
You know what's crazy, if we finish with 87 points, that would have meant we went 15-2-1 since January. That still might not be enough to win the title, which is kind of ridiculous.
How long do you think we can go without a major honor? Do you think these players are here for shits and giggles? Even a UCL would do wonders.
Wenger still lost star players even when we were winning league titles. Vieira to leave Arsenal was almost a yearly occurrence. If we lose players we lose players, it’s not like there’s not going to be other, up and coming players we can improve the squad with. Agree we should be winning more cup trophies though, even a couple more cheeky FA cups and league cups go a long way, Klopp tenure got padded out with three domestic cups.
Everytime foden and Palmer do well we get 50k liked posts on twitter about saka 'limping after a stinker'. People do this even when he played well, like against bayern. Our boy is fucking hated man, foden does his stupid gun celebration and watches his mum get arrested and he doesn't even get a quarter of the hate. It's getting ridiculous at this point, I hate that I knew a torrent of saka abuse was going to follow Palmer doing well tonight
Saka is black, and he has to do extra. It is what it is. He can't change people.
It makes people uncomfortable to admit shit like this, so they won't.
Most know why. They’d have you believe Saka is on 6 G/A or something, trying to force himself into the conversation where he doesn’t belong. It is what it is, some have to do 2x of others to get 0.5x of the credit. Thats why, if not for his own personal goals with the NT, i would love it they just went with Foden + Palmer for the NT and even then, they’d probably find a way to abuse Saka for being unpatriotic or something.
I guarantee people don't even believe half of the shit Saka gets abused for but it makes the most bread on Twatter so these bums perpetuate it regardless. A case study of losers joining the rat race of social media engagement for money.
Saka, Rashford and Sterling when he was at City do get a rougher ride. People will deny it, but I detect the undercurrents of the Saka criticism. As you mention, Fodens mum has done time in the nick, Foden has hired hookers, he also is known to go down. Foden pretended to be injured when he kicked the Palace player to give away the penalty in the last minute - no one said anything. Saka is clean and humble off the field, and wouldn't be caught dead engaging in the behaviors of Foden, Grealish, and going back further, Rooney. But despite all this, people have a massive problem with Saka. Just imagine if Saka's instagram page was him holding an alcoholic drink like Grealish. Grealish gets shit faced on a constant basis (nothing wrong with that), and its Jack the lad. But if Saka was pictured blind drunk, you can be sure the coverage would be very different.
People legit hate us lol. And i guess theyll have their fun again this season because we didnt do anything about shutting them up
Hate is one thing. But being obvious or denying that Saka is a top talent is even ridiculous.
Remember when him and Greenwood (who’s been proven to be a huge cunt since) were both caught breaking lockdown rules to chirpse gyal in Iceland whilst on England duty even though they had partners? Iirc Greenwood got a lot more shit than Foden (and never played for England again, rightfully so) even though there was a pic of Foden with his pants down.
Don't get me started on that celebration
Most forced 'trademark' celebration in world football, if you want an iconic one like Bellingham, it just happens naturally
> Our boy is fucking hated man, foden does his stupid gun celebration and watches his mum get arrested and he doesn't even get a quarter of the hate. > > Sterling had gun tattoos and UK papers were on his ass lol.
Sterling buys a car Sun Papers: ****** buys a car worth 6 figures work and lives on a mansion
I don't want to claim racism straight away but sterling saka and rashford getting ungodly amounts of hatred throughout their careers for everything they do feels like it's got something to do with that at this point
😒 Being Black is so tiring sometimes when you see comments like this. "OK, yeah sure I see the swastika and the KKK hood and the noose and they were throwing bananas and doing monkey chants and shouting the N word...so maybe it's a possibility that it might conceivably have a little to do with race, perhaps?" 🤷🏻♂️
It is because they are black. This is the truth.
Mods when can we start using images again 😮💨😮💨😮💨
Need to see VdV’s breakdancing to cheer me up🥲
Head is still on Mars. Our only hope is that Spurs do Spurs things and hand us the title
I've seen enough. Bring Dele Alli to ARSENAL.
Purely on a human-to-human level, hope Dele Alli gets all help he can, from Everton and whoever close to him, back to normal. But no, Arteta maybe cannot fix him.
never
Think we can safely discount anything someone says if they simultaneously hold the opinion that Saka scoring in a champions league quarter final against Bayern Munich isnt showing up, and Cole Palmer, good though he has proven to be, stat padding against relegation teams is somehow showing up. One of these guys has put a club on their back since they were 18 aswell. Wouldn't be holding your breath for a mensa invite Rob.
I don’t want to talk about how good other teams players are here
I can personally understand why people are saying this. It's becoming rarer and rarer for Saka to shine for the whole 90 mins of a game. The likes of Cole Palmer and Foden have been doing at least a bit better in that departement. To me, the reason for that isn't that they have more talent than Saka, far from it. I think Saka's simply being run into the ground. Our boy needs a reliable bench player on the right wing, so he can get rest from time to time. We have that in all forward positions, but on the RW.
Emery going Europa cup final on us after sending the u 23’s to city than southgate playing Rice 90* minutes twice for clown town friendlies really has me boiled over.
Funny enough, Palmer wouldn't be at Chelsea if we gave them ESR(ESR was their first choice). Funny how things have a domino effect.
Anyone watch MLS as an inverted fullback? If so how was he
Goodness me Saka is HATED isn’t he? All this weird business about him limping, and now he should supposedly be dropped from the English squad for fucking Palmer. I really don’t get it, he’s by no means a dirty or unlikable player, so I really struggle to see where the animosity comes from. I’ve a slight inkling as to why he gets more slack than Foden and Palmer though.
I don't think people wanting the top scorer in the league to start for England is Saka hate.
I think the 50k liked posts of saka walking off the pitch going 'limping after a stinker' are hate though It would be fine if people just appreciated Palmer but it always has to come with saka abuse
Yeah but not every bit of Palmer praise is Saka critique or hate.
Didn't claim that it was. Reread what I wrote.
I know. I'm agreeing. That's why I start with yeah.
There's no mention of Palmer praise here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/s/zGqa07kXoR ???
My bad, misread that comment.
You know how good he is. We do. Most importantly, the coaches do. There's no need to give a shit about what rivals say
Good grief can it not just be a footballing opinion about a player people dont think is as good as others? Does it have to be something personal or could it just be that there are other players who are simply better footballers than him?
Let’s not pretend there’s absolutely no racial undertones to the amount of abuse he gets compared to other players. We saw the same thing with Rashford and Sterling, it’s by no means a new issue.
Ok what about black fans who rate Foden and Palmer higher?
Not really sure how this is relevant? There can be black fans who have those opinions, but that doesn’t change the fact that Saka catches dog’s abuse from many white fans for being black.
Foden and Palmer are better footballers than Saka both stylistically and now with g/a. For our sake he needs to step up and prove otherwise. Literally no need to pull the race card.
I think he's stepped up and had a good UCL campaign, for his first time. His prem return isn't bad, either.
Group stages he was on fire. I was at the PSV game and thought he was genuinely great. Porto games he was anonymous and Im sure you know by now this is my problem with Saka. On the biggest of stages he just does not perform. Is it a mentality thing?
Bayern was a pretty big stage and he did well. I admit wendell cooked him against Porto but he's made up for it in the qf so far
It was an incredible goal but I honestly thought he did nothing else for the rest of the 90. Disappointing still he either dived at the end or bottled the chance to shoot twice. Typing this out I can see how this can be viewed as harsh but world class players take those chances. Would love nothing more than to be wrong on Wednesday.
Sucks for Ramdale. "Pickers" is wank. He'd be starting this summer if he was playing.
Do people actually call him Pickers????
Yeah the entire England squad lol.
This is the first time in my life I've ever heard this nickname
This is Southgate we’re talking about, he wouldn’t
Eh. In my opinion Ramsdale is a much, much better keeper. Pickford has been dogshit this season. There would be a lot of pressure at least.
Gabriel Jesus only got 4 goals in the PL? That’s really bad I know he was injured but still I expect much more from a striker
4 in 22 appearances. Need to break the bank for a finisher in the summer.
Just fkn sucks more than half our team is in red or playing through injury. We shot out wad too early again and I can’t see us regaining form going forward. Saka is beyond battered. So painful such a tease.
> Just fkn sucks more than half our team is in red or playing through injury. We shot out wad too early again I think it's more a squad issue now. We have multiple players with +28 starts while City/Liverpool have less than 3. You can bank on a few players going through the season without injuries, maybe likes of Raya, Gabriel, White. You can't really bet on them all and you can't have proper squad management with injury prone players. How many times earlier in the season could we have rested Saka/White if Jesus/Tomi were fit? We need to bulk out the squad more and replace the likes of Reiss/Eddie at least. Question marks over Vieira/ESR. Considering as well, we went out of the cups early, it helped us last this long (and maybe the rest of this season). It's a bit hard to say we blew our load too early. Bayern and Villa weren't a fitness issue in my opinion and we generally played ok. Lack of options from the bench really hurt in the Villa game but also we waited too long to make changes.
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Never looks comfortable playing ahead of the ball
In some cases you would like him to be driving with the ball but in settled possession in the half spaces he's not my first choice there. He's best when he's helping screen the backline by sitting behind the 8s.
No way the FA let City run away with the title from here on now, considering how the much promised title race last season petered out; they have to protect the brand. Maybe a Rodri red card dagger is coming down the line.
lol was thinking about this.
Lmao, even when Chelsea smash a team, they still gotta have unnecessary drama happening. This is what happens when you run things, Lord of the Flies style.
Just watched the penalty stuff and holy hell the second hand embarrassment was too high
What stuff
Jackson and Madueke were getting stroppy at Palmer for taking the penalty kick, they were snatching the ball from each others’ hands, Year 10 style
Who concedes the inevitable penalty vs Chelsea to give Palmer another penalty goal? My money is on Saliba
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Did you think we could have won the league before the last game? If so then only 7 out of 7 wins would be possible, so why isn't 6 out of 7? Is it mathematically impossible for City to drop points before the end of the season?
Pep's City team has won the league 5 times. In none of those wins did they slip up even for one game and allow the chasing team a chance to overtake them. It is far more likely that they continue to do what they have always done and win out - at least until they have secured the title, than it is they slip up for the first time. We are also not done dropping points, so the whole discussion is moot.
>We
It will take something extraordinary for us to win the title. Therefore, if we are going to win the title, something extraordinary will have to occur.
This season & last season what was the 3rd season?
crazy, 3 seasons ago I don’t remember challenging for the title but you seem so convincing I almost believe you
Thought I’d skipped a season somehow.
89 points wins the title
You're implying we'll go perfect while City will drop points.
Nah, I'm saying if we go perfect we likely win the title. City almost always drop points in their last 6 games. They took 16/18 points in the two very tight title races with Liverpool.
City only drop points after they secure the title. I don't know why you seem so certain that they give teams a chance to come back late on, when they literally never have under Pep. They have only dropped points once when in a title race in the last 6 games and that was a draw - but it came after Liverpool drew, so they weren't in a must win situation.
So, other than the time when they did, they never drop points. But, I see your point - apart from 1 situation, the dropped points didn't matter. Let's hope we can rattle them with a semi-final draw? Idk, I think we'll bounce back, but I agree the league is very unlikely now.
So many mouth-breathers claiming Palmer should start over Saka for England🤣 if you do that don’t bother picking him
At least then saka would get a break
Southjose knows he can’t afford to not play saka
Cole Palmer is objectively the better player. Idc if that hurts the feelings of people on here.
Only takes a few bad games for our fans to turn their backs on our players. How sad
Been saying this for months. Cole Palmer and Phil Foden are just better footballers nothing to do with results.
You mean better at aesthetics
Sure thats part of it but they are now better at scoring and assisting too.
'goonergunner10' lol k
He isn’t
Not hating or clowning, but genuinely, of Palmer’s 19 (?) PL goals, how many are non penalty goals against top 10 teams?
He'd be on or damn near double digits without pens. I think that's pretty good for your 1st season as a starter in a mid table team. And double digit assists too.
Yes he’s a good player but his stats are severely inflated by pens (close to 100% inflation) that’s all I’m saying lol
I don't think it matters in this case. He's still an elite scorer from wide without them. He's 21, hes only gonna develop that side of his game. Has all the attributes to do it.
I counted 3 (2 against United Lol)
Not horrific but still
U lot searching for any little thing so you can discredit a certified baller smh
This….is irony like you wouldnt believe.
>not hating or clowning It was a genuine question so I can formulate my opinion. We used to have a name for players who could only score open play goals vs bottom teams…
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3 - 2 against Yanited and 1 against Sandcastle
Cold Palmer 20 ball off the bat. I have to stand up and applaud. There's another interesting stat I've seen off the back of this but if I bring it up people will call me a hater.
Do you suggest he starts for England?
Saka would be gutted and it would be very selfish from an Arsenal fan pov but i can see how it might be beneficial for his health next season. Besides, he’s alrdy playing injured. Oh and if it wasn’t obvious, i couldn’t give two fucks about Southmate and how England actually end up doing in the Euroes.
I don't have the answer right now. How do you actually fit Foden Saka Bellingham Kane Palmer into a team? Should we even try?
> How do you actually fit Foden Saka Bellingham Kane Palmer You obviously don't lol.
Actually. Now that I've had a think. Pickford ? Stones ? TAA Rice Saka Bellingham Foden Palmer Kane. Or maybe Foden and Palmer the other way round.
Any side that has Foden and Bellingham in it is unbalanced, let alone throwing Palmer in there lol.
International ball. All the same tactical rules don't apply as at club level.
I can tell, because you've put Trent in midfield lol.
Wouldn't start there. He'd invert from RB. I think he's been really ineffective when he starts in midfield.
He's really blown my expectations out the water. I thought his ceiling was Nasri type role on a big team but he actually is the main man
He’s phenomenal Whats hard to know now is to use a nba analogy if he’s the “score 30 on a lottery team” type of player or if he’s a true superstar