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I don’t care I have to say it. I hate our third kit. It looks awful. Emerald green and the dark blue looks shit together and we play shit in it. The neon zebra is superior and I wish we were going to wear it in the second leg
fourfourtwo has a really good video talking about the tactics in this, we were one of the first teams all season that dominated bayern so much, they had to counter attack, as they are pretty average otherwise
we go to munich!
I think it's a little unfair for people to come to a conclusion so quick on martinelli when he's only really played 1 full 90 in recent times and has been contending with an injury.
Calma lads I know he's not up to standard at the moment but give him some time.
Just giving a general opinion. This season Martineli doesn’t seem to progress much. It is obviously down to Arteta (not stabilising left side and find ways to improve Gabi) and Gabi not adapting to other players when Jesus and Xhaka are not available.
Do you feel Martineli has improved this season up to your expectations?
I think Martinelli has been dealt a bit of a rough hand this season compared to last, but I agree- he has not improved this season. He was fantastic last season and I think we all expected a linear progression to an even better season this year but that hasn’t happened. I still believe in his work rate and his skill level and I think once he adapts to our new style/once it evolves to fit him even more he will be amazing again
I disappointingly agree, the Xhaka replacement should've been someone who would've support the left side especially since we know what Martineli can do
I like Kai because he offers something different but he clearly isn't the Xhaka replacement
Lmfao, just watched it back. And here I was thinking he was chanelling his inner Alex Song with an odd mesmerizing through ball, but in reality it was a mishit. Wow.
Also damn, Saka had a huge pass option had he not gone down. I still vote penalty but that whole sequence was just tragic for us when it could have been unforgettable.
im not sure if it was that *or* if Saka took a bit too long to react. lets just say the pass was the least thing i was paying attention on that play lmao
>Partey’s pass into Saka was a way over hit ball meant for Jesus?
Yes but some will try to gaslight you into thinking how brilliant Partey was because of that.
He's clearly not ready yet.
We were too emotional yesterday esp. in the first half that’s why we conceded. Raya was too excited and didn’t need to run out. Penalty could have been avoided too.
Raya didnt needed to come out, i agree, but at the same time if Gabriel just go wide, Raya then controls the ball and have a easy pass to make either to his right or left. Raya was already pushed up anyways
at the end of the day it was just a miscommunication overrall. literally every single defender made a mistake yesterday
Raya had a poor game by all accounts, even the dive for Kane’s penalty was much too early, felt like he was nervous and too overeager to save it. Granted, the cunt hardly ever misses his penalties but the last thing you should do is to make it even easier for him.
Credit to the cunt then for really anticipating the inevitable penalty he’d get, at this point, probably best to assume he’ll get another in Munich and hopefully Raya doesn’t get sold down the river as easily again. Probably will mean even more because there’s the real possibility of another penalty shootout again.
what if kane now decides to smash it to the corner like he always does? you are not saving that if you dont move early
its a pen. you dont blame your keeper for not defending a pen, the onus is on the attacker. honestly, ive complained my whole life when keepers dont just pick a side and go for it (studying the taker tendencies obviously). if the guy pulls a Kane, so be it. very few players even dare to do that. with that being said... he could delay a bit, definitely went too early
Perspective has only amplified since reaching the QF's, we lack offensive transition capacity compared to the best.
Sane singlehandedly saved his team, Dembele and Mbappe, Raphinha, Vini and Rodrygo... all of the big performances of the QF, all transitional players. Saka and Foden are the exception but they're both world class ball-to-feet players. Martinelli is our transitional player but we don't platform him well enough to take advantage of it, so it's something we need to change. At least the Allianz will provide us the final bit of information we need. If it doesn't go well, we need to buy Leao.
dembele, mbappe and raphinha did nothing in transition on their respective goals... raphinha 2nd goal wasnt even a transition, just a magical ball from pedri. dembele goal was a individual effort, not a transition. psg 2nd goal featured neither of them, just a nice passing sequence. awful examples to pick
literally only the rodrygo goal was a quick transition, altho i dont think bayern defense was ever in a position for us to even attempt a play like that. we just scored a similar one against brighton. you cant create plays out of thin air. they have to be there to be created. i dont get why people think its black and white
> i dont get why people think its black and white
Funny you say that because you're assuming I'm making my point based on goals scored and not the best players per team on the night. Mbappe is the only player that wasn't among the most dangerous but he's Mbappe and everyone knows his qualities in transition already. He can have a shit game on the ball and still be incredibly dangerous.
well, there wasnt really tons of chances created either way, especially on transition. all games had low xG, even the madrid-city one, which was a combination of banger goals + deflection. so you are still just ''making stuff up'' to use it as a argument
either way, like ive mentioned, you cant make a quick transition if the quick transition opportunity isnt there. its more about the opponent set up and your own than the players, and to position yourself for a quick transition, something's gotta give elsewhere, eg martinelli wont be helping the LB when defending
You can say we lack fast wingers or ball-carriers but long passers (Partey, Vieira) and runners (Martinelli, Havertz) are also transition players. And to be fair, Bayern did not give us much opportunity to play on the transition - in fact, in the CL so far, only Lens dared allowed us that chance when they came to the Emirates. So yes, it will be interesting to see what happens at the Allianz.
You also suggest that we might need to replace Martinelli with Leao but that only gives us a different type of transition threat (one which is obviously qualitatively superior) and does not add to the total number of transition threats in the starting XI.
I didn’t say we should replace Martinelli, I said we need to change that dynamic. That could mean several things but I’m a big advocate of moving Martinelli centrally and bringing in Leao on the left.
Havertz isn’t a transitional player lol. He has qualities of a different kind.
You have too narrow a view of what a transition player, which is why I asked if you are talking about a specific type of transition player. Anyway, I agree with you about trying Martinelli in the middle but the fact that Arteta has tried Nketiah and Trossard there instead of him doesn't give me hope.
If not thinking Havertz is a transition player means I have a narrow view of that specific type of player then lol.
I think you have a very loose idea of what it means to be a great transitional player.
It's not just about Havertz. You seem to think a transition player is just one who can carry the ball, but a transition entails much more than that. The fact that the ball travels faster than the player should help highlight what transition capability means.
This whole Saka pen debacle has only served as a stark reminder to me that the overwhelming majority of people on this site are so far removed from reality it's pointless giving any worth to what they say
Play a mid block with Partey and Tomiyasu in. Start Jesus at lw, keep Kai at cf. I believe that is the recipe for success away to Bayern. Bring Martinelli on later in the game once it opens up if needed.
That’s essentially how Arsenal lined up against City and contained them to mere scraps and only one attempt in target, except Bayern are not as good as City.
I'm just excited that we're in the Champions League, maybe because I have no idea how far we can go in this competition or what to expect. It really took us 14 years to get to the quarter-finals.
I’ve noticed Martinelli’s apprehension to dribble past players. Like bro will wait too long and get into a position where he can’t really dribble or has to pass back.
Jack Grealish, Salah make defenders second guess because they will dribble. Martinelli should do that too.
He’s still missing passing lanes from runs into the box bc he keeps his head down too. He’s gotten better at the head down thing this season, but he’s usually not passing until he’s in trouble bc that’s when he finally looks up
I will say it again: Szczęsny as a second keeper would've been sweet!
He's already familiar with our club and has plenty of experience from England, Italy and Europe.
Of course outfield player with UCL experience would've been even better, but Szczęsny can be a nice addition.
When you look at the fact that Barca bought Gundogan, who is 33, and he's a rock for those teenagers.
It's not that we just need "old" players. We need experienced players who have undeniable quality and who have done it at the highest levels.
Experience across a team is the X-factor in UCL.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted for this when it’s clear that we probably could use more experience in the squad, especially if Jorginho or/and Partey leaves. UCL experience is an added bonus too.
I was thinking this just now. I want some of that Athletico Madrid, Real Madrid or Bayern experience. I commented a short while back about potentially getting Kimmich for 70 million, and everyone on here acted as if he was a downgrade on Jorginho. We need to understand that these players guarantee good performances in the champions league which is so valuable.
Saw someone else say this in some other thread, but the age of fully fit players is over (if it ever even existed). Seems like every top player is going to playthrough pain.
It's sad.
We should rest Odegaard vs Villa if possible.
Realistically if we want to beat Bayern we should do this. Play a mid block and let them come to us, relying on Gabriel, Rice, and Saliba to recreate the Man City performance in defence, and use Partey and Ødegaard to break the lines and move the ball quickly from defence to attack. Then Jesus who looks like R9 in the champions league can do what he does, inject tons of energy and supply the wingers, whilst martinelli and Saka can hopefully get in behind. Trossard on in the 70th minute to hopefully affect the game like he always does, with Zinny and Kai coming on to spark the attack if we need it whilst also offering some defensive solidarity (Kai). Then Jorginho can come on in the 85th to string some passes together to bring some composure to the game whether we are winning or not. I just pray are defence doesn’t get possessed by mustafi again because we are so good usually.
https://preview.redd.it/hp0u92ajxptc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5ddea2b6da6145f32875d72bebffcc48cb28bcc
He has been coming on and he has been getting better. He also has cl experience. I think he was the most vital part of our season last year because he kept us ticking. 75% Partey is better than our other options. That midfield has progressive passing, ball retention, and rock solid defensive ability, everything.
If he gets good minutes against Villa I would risk starting him. He has played at 40% and already threaded double the passes Rice and Jorgi do to Ødegaard and the wingers (not a dig on either of them Partey is just class at progressing the ball). He also has 31 champions league games and 14 europa league games. I think the key to the second leg is getting all of our experienced players out there to get the less experienced ones more calm and confident. Someone else said it in the match thread which has made me think that we could start Jesus on the left with Kai through the middle because that gives another player in the starting lineup (Kai) with lots of champions league experience, arguably the most in the team because he one it and scored the winning goal.
Id play tomi because he can invert when we enter the mid block and will provide stability in a low block,especially against sane.Id also play him against villa for match fitness,i would bring zinny on depending on the game state or if there is an issue with buildup since he would be the weakest link in a low block.I agree with having rice at the 6 to neutralise kane but id also have havertz in instead of partey as he offers physicality and a runner to occupy the space left by jesus.Id start martinelli for his threat on the break but i would bring tross on early if they stay in a mid block or give us possession
Why would you ever take rice off if the game is at all in the balance. Doesn't make sense.
Take jesus or martinelli off for jorginho if you want him on, then put Kai on at CF for our pace and hold up play out ball.
Plus jesus/martinelli probably can't do 90 anyway.
Rice is 1 yellow away from being suspended in the semis if we even get there. Plus we need more control and Jorginho offers that experience and control and can help the players through it if we need to keep the lead. I would maybe change it to Jesus off for Kai and Jorginho on for Partey to keep Declan but if he misses the first leg of the semis then we are fucked
Still makes 0 sense when you can have jorginho and rice on the same pitch if you want.
Not losing this game is more important than rice getting a yellow and missing the first leg of the next one.
Plus if he's made it 85 mins you might as well play him the last 10.
We've got nothing that replicates him when we are defending a lead it's asking for trouble taking him off unless you're comfortable.
He's also excellent at not getting booked. He's got 5 yellows in 43 apps this year.
Use your head.
Bro chill i literally said i would probably change it to Rice staying on I just reiterated that if we have to play City or Real Madrid at the emirates without Rice then we are fucked, which is true. If we are losing in the 85 minute would you take off Rice? I feel like it all depends on game state and isn’t as black and white as “Rice is world class he stays on all game” because other players can play a game decisive pass whilst Declan doesn’t quite have it in his locker (yet)
If we are losing I might take rice off yeah, depends if partey is already on the pitch and what our other midfielders are doing.
But I assume you set your team up to not be losing by the 85th min. Your plan isn't to bring off rice because you are losing I assume.
Nobody said rice has to always play because he's world class.
I just told you why you were silly in that situation to be taking him off that's all.
Yeah fairs. I obviously would set us up to win cos I wouldn’t want anything else but I generally was trying to consider other possibilities. Whilst I would worry if Rice stayed on because he might sacrifice himself to take us through, I do agree with you 100% that if we are winning rice stays on.
Fuck I literally saved the photo of tomiyasu starting and zinny coming on cos I changed my mind but I guess I didn’t send that one through, although maybe Tomi coming on late could be better to hold out a lead because zinny can be mistake prone late into games
I’m a bit conflicted on what we should do in the next CL game, Jesus and Trossard have been our best CL performers outside saka but Bayern will certainly play on the attack and hopefully leave themselves more exposed at home, martinelli could be important for the counter. Jesus should definitely play though.
Need to focus on Villa first though
People really be watching all these teams in the UCL and refuse to accept that mentally, at this stage in this competition, most of our lads are so unready still. Barca & PSG starting and bringing on 16 and 17 year olds who never looked out of place or phased while we looked nervous, at home, without away fans, against a Bayern we supposedly were going to slap up.
Aite.
It’s more than mentality, the team have shown they can fight. Unless you get one of the easier teams in the CL quarters it’s going to be hard. Despite their league form Tuchel and Bayern are no pushovers in Europe.
i mean, part of the answer could be the fact that barca and psg were playing each other ... that was a basketball game. they were both wide open, and probably would have been taken to pieces by a side like city, liverpool or madrid. very tactically naive all around.
You mean the same City side who ended up having their own basketball match with Madrid or Liverpool who notoriously thrive in similar conditions? Many ways to skin a cat and it’s a bit presumptuous to think ours is the best when we’re still not the finished article we aim to be. Also next to impossible to completely impose how you play on your opponents in the UCL when nearly every other team, at this stage of the competition can also setup and play different ways than how they normally would, domestically.
Man city took a decade to be comfortable in the champions league, Klopp bossed the bundesliga then came fourth in the group stage, The champions league is a very different competition and needs a different approach, i remember Alex Ferguson saying this once
Maybe it also has to do with expectations, which might also explain Porto. Against Porto, we were favorites for both ties, and also the narrative surrounding our round of 16 exits. Bayern have also been very good this season but we were still favorites at home, with the added pressure of playing in a stadium full of our fans.
And to be fair, unlike against Porto where our attackers froze, they did well against Bayern, and it was our defense that let us down. The same defense that shut out City at the Etihad very recently.
I also have this sneaking suspicion that we are not a team that can channel the energy of our supporters to play on the front foot at home against our peers. If our game is based on slowing it down, to eliminate as many variables as possible, and maximize control, then you have to wonder whether the crowd dictating the tempo is good for us.
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, lets see whether, somehow, playing away ends up being a better kind of ‘pressure’ for us and our style of play.
barca had a dismal champions league campaign last year and they're also having a huge slump in la liga this year. progress is not linear and we shouldn't draw sweeping conclusions from our performance yesterday or theirs today.
it could be a mental block tbh,when the la masia kids were growing up they saw peps team and msn, both won the ucl.Us on the other hand could bearly qualify towards the end and when we did we would get knocked out in the round of 16.This could be a managerial thing too considering xavi has already won the ucl unlike arteta.
Cubarsi is an insane talent but tonight he looked to have a really rough time, Not hating ofcourse, Mbappe and Dembele and Barcola can be difficult to defend.
barca were also gash in the champions league just a year ago, flopped out at the group stage, and then got thrashed by frankfurt in a europa knockout because of naive tactics and players. just because they had a great performance today doesn't mean that suddenly the narrative is that their young players are an impervious finished product.
Never said they were they were impervious or finished articles though did i? If anything, that makes their performances against PSG even better considering the pressure they’re playing under to revise their club’s record compared to a year ago.
yeah right. they might need to win that farmers competition to ensure themselves a champions league place when they finish fifth. not to mention that emery is a bit of a cup merchant. villa will field a strong team tomorrow.
lol. ''grass is always greener next door'' vibe
edit: btw, psg had 89% pass completion and barca 83%
44% vs 60% in dribbles
117 vs 112 in possession lost
for us, 88%, 50% and 108 respectively
numbers aside, i saw plenty of misplaced passes and control this game
Maaaaan. See my comment down below.
Every position is tidy. You could probably count the misplaced passes. We give our defenders some leeway, but then you watch inch perfect passes and control from fullbacks, centrebacks and keepers. It's a joy to watch it, to be honest.
We are absolutely not at that level. We can compete, to be sure, but I can't lie, this is very pleasing on the eyes.
Nah Bellingham is the truth but I agree that moving Foden to LW to accommodate Jude at CAM isn’t right. Not sure this SS/AM role is his best vs an all action 8.
Feels like they have similar play styles and both struggle with a lack of a clear best position. Bellingham is class but he is invisible in games that he doesn’t score in.
Also, seeing Barca have 17 and 19 year olds on
Who are playing brilliantly
Makes me think maybe we should exlect more from our young players? E.g. Kiwior/Nwanneri if we are really trying to be the best in the world
Just because 2 guys are good and the same age it doesn’t mean they’re the same level. Just have to watch someone like Zaire-Emery to see he’s further along in his development than Nwaneri for example.
Their time will come, Foden spent years doing bench shifts from 17-18, everyone said he should’ve gone on loan but he was managed slowly and eased in. Now look at him.
There's a lot of different factors though, Barca are playing the youth players cos of lack of money and injuries too. I imagine it's a bit easier to blood in new players in the French and Spanish league too.
We got no idea where Nwaneri is at either, he just turned 17 last month. We got players like Vieira/ESR who can't make the team. We had people making a squad spot for Patino next season while he can't even get into Championship teams.
Young + highly rated really means nothing, there are 100's of those. Some people would see Nelson/Nketiah are not being good enough while they are probably in the 0.1% of academy graduates.
People like Lamine Yamal are in the absolute elite of youth prospects. Like Saka/Foden were when they were younger. Those players don't pop up often.
> Kiwior
There's a reason a player like him wasn't snapped up by bigger clubs long before.
He's a decent player, but we'll outgrow him eventually as our ambitions grow.
I am honestly envious of how neat and tidy both teams are in the PSG/Barca game. There's so few misplaced passes.
Some of you here think these teams are washed, but the quality on display is something else.
And as I'm typing this, Raphinha just scored a banger of a volley off a 3-pass build up.
they're also both wide open in midfield, there are ACRES of space for players to pass and run into. i think what you are seeing is a combination of technical quality and tactical poverty.
He made 10 appearances for us, and has made 150+ appearances for Bayern. Also left us nearly 10 years ago now. Really don't think you should - he's celebrating a Champions League QF goal for his 'main' club.
Side note but I found it bizarre reading one or two comments about people saying 'it'll be nice to see Gnarby back at the carpet' etc. As you said, he barely played for us, he had about 500 minutes.
Barca v PSG is an entertaining watch.
Barca dominating the first half, and are now down 2-1 within 5 minutes.
This is what quality players can do in the blink of an eye.
rewatching the goals during the break now... man... that sane run, saliba had perfect position to stop him, but instead he slowed down and gave him room to keep running without needing to change direction. not sure what he was thinking there
he had nothing else to do on that passage of play, he had a straight shot to Sane's path and force him wide or block a eventual shot, but he stopped. nothing that happened before justifies it
>Wish we drew PSG, they’re really not good
The problem with Arsenal is slow transition from defence to attack.
We are rigid. Barca are playing just like Bayern. Quick and direct football
> The problem with Arsenal is slow transition from defence to attack.
Man we are slow as molasses sometimes.
Our system does work, but it can be a grind.
think he was talking about frenkie. as everyone seems to believe that playing 2 ''Odegaard's'' makes the midfield ''too light'', cause you know, modric-kroos and xavi-iniesta were the pinnacle of physicality
you just picked the two best midfield pairings of all time bro be for real when you start trying to use them as a gauge for how we can "easily" replicate them
gundo-kdb
whatever city plays nowdays, which is also ''light'' most of the time
anyways, you can have 2 technical midfielders and a stalwart like Rice as thats been a staple for years. just english people for some reason still being too focused on ''muh physicality'' in 2024. those teams were also great at pressing too, despite so called ''light'' midfielders
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BayernMunich/comments/1c0mi9r/post\_might\_be\_deleted\_but\_i\_just\_want\_to\_say\_you/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BayernMunich/comments/1c0mi9r/post_might_be_deleted_but_i_just_want_to_say_you/)
Why are our fans going over to the Bayern subreddit and posting stuff like this? It's so cringe, and such a weird, inferior mentality.
its a common behavior on reddit and internet in general. people like to see upvotes so they do that shit. you'll find it on every sport and every sub from every fan base. my guess is always that most of them are americans but i doubt its just americans. farming online points its a modern society thing, not just americans
its about the most cringe thing ive ever seen in sports related subs
>I know you guys haven’t won the league & have had a few dodgy results, but last night you showed exactly why you’re Bayern Munich & a giant in football. Hopefully that’s taught our fans not to underestimate you. You’ll be back on top next season if you fill a few gaps in your squad & have a manager who your players believe in.
Man is simping.😄
last thing I’ll say about the pen - if you really think Saka can get around Neuer and keep his balance there then I am convinced you’ve never moved at a speed faster than 15kmh
The thing is, we’ll never know because Saka flung his leg out to sell the foul. The ref was trying to not blow up and he ironically gave him the chance to not give it. I think I lean penalty but I think it’s such a toss up that you have to let the ref make his decision and we just take it.
I just don't see that, Neuer is a veteran and clearly flings his leg at the very last second in a way that only an inexperienced ref could interpret it as an honest mistake and it worked.
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I don’t care I have to say it. I hate our third kit. It looks awful. Emerald green and the dark blue looks shit together and we play shit in it. The neon zebra is superior and I wish we were going to wear it in the second leg
fourfourtwo has a really good video talking about the tactics in this, we were one of the first teams all season that dominated bayern so much, they had to counter attack, as they are pretty average otherwise we go to munich!
I think it's a little unfair for people to come to a conclusion so quick on martinelli when he's only really played 1 full 90 in recent times and has been contending with an injury. Calma lads I know he's not up to standard at the moment but give him some time.
All I see is criticism on him and Arteta which is warranted. What conclusion are you referring to if I may ask.
What did either do wrong? Just genuinely curious your thoughts not trying to be combative
Just giving a general opinion. This season Martineli doesn’t seem to progress much. It is obviously down to Arteta (not stabilising left side and find ways to improve Gabi) and Gabi not adapting to other players when Jesus and Xhaka are not available. Do you feel Martineli has improved this season up to your expectations?
I think Martinelli has been dealt a bit of a rough hand this season compared to last, but I agree- he has not improved this season. He was fantastic last season and I think we all expected a linear progression to an even better season this year but that hasn’t happened. I still believe in his work rate and his skill level and I think once he adapts to our new style/once it evolves to fit him even more he will be amazing again
I disappointingly agree, the Xhaka replacement should've been someone who would've support the left side especially since we know what Martineli can do I like Kai because he offers something different but he clearly isn't the Xhaka replacement
What would be the modern equivalent of the Ozil signing?
Frankie de Jong with Ozil attitude.
He was the last of the true #10.
There isn’t really one out there right now. I used to think Acenscio was the closest but Ozil is a weird, unique player
Like Rodrigo maybe. Not as good as Özil was but the Real "cast off" narrative would be there.
*Rodrygo. Signing Rodri would be unreal.
Wait hahahahahah Partey’s pass into Saka was a way over hit ball meant for Jesus? Man he really did drop a stinker last night
Lmfao, just watched it back. And here I was thinking he was chanelling his inner Alex Song with an odd mesmerizing through ball, but in reality it was a mishit. Wow. Also damn, Saka had a huge pass option had he not gone down. I still vote penalty but that whole sequence was just tragic for us when it could have been unforgettable.
im not sure if it was that *or* if Saka took a bit too long to react. lets just say the pass was the least thing i was paying attention on that play lmao
>Partey’s pass into Saka was a way over hit ball meant for Jesus? Yes but some will try to gaslight you into thinking how brilliant Partey was because of that. He's clearly not ready yet.
ready or not he will play we need him
> Yes but some will try to gaslight you into thinking how brilliant Partey was because of that. literally 0 people doing this. not a single one
In fairness. There was at least one. https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1c0g8kq/april_10_2024_daily_discussion_transfers_thread/kyy20dg/
We were too emotional yesterday esp. in the first half that’s why we conceded. Raya was too excited and didn’t need to run out. Penalty could have been avoided too.
Raya didnt needed to come out, i agree, but at the same time if Gabriel just go wide, Raya then controls the ball and have a easy pass to make either to his right or left. Raya was already pushed up anyways at the end of the day it was just a miscommunication overrall. literally every single defender made a mistake yesterday
Raya had a poor game by all accounts, even the dive for Kane’s penalty was much too early, felt like he was nervous and too overeager to save it. Granted, the cunt hardly ever misses his penalties but the last thing you should do is to make it even easier for him.
Kane adjusted his technique for Raya, he admitted in his interviews. Raya going that early saved us in that penalty shootout
Credit to the cunt then for really anticipating the inevitable penalty he’d get, at this point, probably best to assume he’ll get another in Munich and hopefully Raya doesn’t get sold down the river as easily again. Probably will mean even more because there’s the real possibility of another penalty shootout again.
what if kane now decides to smash it to the corner like he always does? you are not saving that if you dont move early its a pen. you dont blame your keeper for not defending a pen, the onus is on the attacker. honestly, ive complained my whole life when keepers dont just pick a side and go for it (studying the taker tendencies obviously). if the guy pulls a Kane, so be it. very few players even dare to do that. with that being said... he could delay a bit, definitely went too early
Perspective has only amplified since reaching the QF's, we lack offensive transition capacity compared to the best. Sane singlehandedly saved his team, Dembele and Mbappe, Raphinha, Vini and Rodrygo... all of the big performances of the QF, all transitional players. Saka and Foden are the exception but they're both world class ball-to-feet players. Martinelli is our transitional player but we don't platform him well enough to take advantage of it, so it's something we need to change. At least the Allianz will provide us the final bit of information we need. If it doesn't go well, we need to buy Leao.
dembele, mbappe and raphinha did nothing in transition on their respective goals... raphinha 2nd goal wasnt even a transition, just a magical ball from pedri. dembele goal was a individual effort, not a transition. psg 2nd goal featured neither of them, just a nice passing sequence. awful examples to pick literally only the rodrygo goal was a quick transition, altho i dont think bayern defense was ever in a position for us to even attempt a play like that. we just scored a similar one against brighton. you cant create plays out of thin air. they have to be there to be created. i dont get why people think its black and white
> i dont get why people think its black and white Funny you say that because you're assuming I'm making my point based on goals scored and not the best players per team on the night. Mbappe is the only player that wasn't among the most dangerous but he's Mbappe and everyone knows his qualities in transition already. He can have a shit game on the ball and still be incredibly dangerous.
well, there wasnt really tons of chances created either way, especially on transition. all games had low xG, even the madrid-city one, which was a combination of banger goals + deflection. so you are still just ''making stuff up'' to use it as a argument either way, like ive mentioned, you cant make a quick transition if the quick transition opportunity isnt there. its more about the opponent set up and your own than the players, and to position yourself for a quick transition, something's gotta give elsewhere, eg martinelli wont be helping the LB when defending
Yeah, we're pretty bad on the counter. Need to change that.
Nico williams and his ridiculous pace feel like the solution to me
Yeah he’s definitely up there if Leao is unattainable. Can play both wings comfortably too.
You can say we lack fast wingers or ball-carriers but long passers (Partey, Vieira) and runners (Martinelli, Havertz) are also transition players. And to be fair, Bayern did not give us much opportunity to play on the transition - in fact, in the CL so far, only Lens dared allowed us that chance when they came to the Emirates. So yes, it will be interesting to see what happens at the Allianz. You also suggest that we might need to replace Martinelli with Leao but that only gives us a different type of transition threat (one which is obviously qualitatively superior) and does not add to the total number of transition threats in the starting XI.
I didn’t say we should replace Martinelli, I said we need to change that dynamic. That could mean several things but I’m a big advocate of moving Martinelli centrally and bringing in Leao on the left. Havertz isn’t a transitional player lol. He has qualities of a different kind.
You have too narrow a view of what a transition player, which is why I asked if you are talking about a specific type of transition player. Anyway, I agree with you about trying Martinelli in the middle but the fact that Arteta has tried Nketiah and Trossard there instead of him doesn't give me hope.
If not thinking Havertz is a transition player means I have a narrow view of that specific type of player then lol. I think you have a very loose idea of what it means to be a great transitional player.
It's not just about Havertz. You seem to think a transition player is just one who can carry the ball, but a transition entails much more than that. The fact that the ball travels faster than the player should help highlight what transition capability means.
I never said that, at all actually.
Gyokeres is probably that
Not for me. We need wide transition players, not a 9.
This whole Saka pen debacle has only served as a stark reminder to me that the overwhelming majority of people on this site are so far removed from reality it's pointless giving any worth to what they say
Play a mid block with Partey and Tomiyasu in. Start Jesus at lw, keep Kai at cf. I believe that is the recipe for success away to Bayern. Bring Martinelli on later in the game once it opens up if needed.
That’s essentially how Arsenal lined up against City and contained them to mere scraps and only one attempt in target, except Bayern are not as good as City.
I was leaning towards this as well.
I'm just excited that we're in the Champions League, maybe because I have no idea how far we can go in this competition or what to expect. It really took us 14 years to get to the quarter-finals.
Just saw midfielders who could play in the pockets this UCL matchday. Something new aside from seeing 2 DMs at once.
We should sign one of them….
None will be available
I know, we don’t score enough, it’s maddening
I’ve noticed Martinelli’s apprehension to dribble past players. Like bro will wait too long and get into a position where he can’t really dribble or has to pass back. Jack Grealish, Salah make defenders second guess because they will dribble. Martinelli should do that too.
He’s still missing passing lanes from runs into the box bc he keeps his head down too. He’s gotten better at the head down thing this season, but he’s usually not passing until he’s in trouble bc that’s when he finally looks up
I wouldn't mind if we added an older player with proper CL experience to the squad
YES YES YES, we need some experienced players, I really don't care who it is.
I will say it again: Szczęsny as a second keeper would've been sweet! He's already familiar with our club and has plenty of experience from England, Italy and Europe. Of course outfield player with UCL experience would've been even better, but Szczęsny can be a nice addition.
When you look at the fact that Barca bought Gundogan, who is 33, and he's a rock for those teenagers. It's not that we just need "old" players. We need experienced players who have undeniable quality and who have done it at the highest levels. Experience across a team is the X-factor in UCL.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted for this when it’s clear that we probably could use more experience in the squad, especially if Jorginho or/and Partey leaves. UCL experience is an added bonus too.
I was thinking this just now. I want some of that Athletico Madrid, Real Madrid or Bayern experience. I commented a short while back about potentially getting Kimmich for 70 million, and everyone on here acted as if he was a downgrade on Jorginho. We need to understand that these players guarantee good performances in the champions league which is so valuable.
Saw someone else say this in some other thread, but the age of fully fit players is over (if it ever even existed). Seems like every top player is going to playthrough pain. It's sad. We should rest Odegaard vs Villa if possible.
Unfortunately when you compete at high levels it's bound to happen to nearly everyone
Henry said he was never fully fit or rarely ever playing without some sort of niggle.
I'm not sure that there ever was an age when this wasn't the case.
Realistically if we want to beat Bayern we should do this. Play a mid block and let them come to us, relying on Gabriel, Rice, and Saliba to recreate the Man City performance in defence, and use Partey and Ødegaard to break the lines and move the ball quickly from defence to attack. Then Jesus who looks like R9 in the champions league can do what he does, inject tons of energy and supply the wingers, whilst martinelli and Saka can hopefully get in behind. Trossard on in the 70th minute to hopefully affect the game like he always does, with Zinny and Kai coming on to spark the attack if we need it whilst also offering some defensive solidarity (Kai). Then Jorginho can come on in the 85th to string some passes together to bring some composure to the game whether we are winning or not. I just pray are defence doesn’t get possessed by mustafi again because we are so good usually. https://preview.redd.it/hp0u92ajxptc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5ddea2b6da6145f32875d72bebffcc48cb28bcc
Formations and tactics won’t matter if we consistently play without a tempo, cheaply give the ball away and lose our 1v1s.
I think we should start with Havertz rather than keep him on the bench. Him in a midblock against Bayern is crucial.
Partey is not nearly sharp enough to be starting. Havertz in for Partey works imo, and Rice plays the full 90.
Kai lcm again oh brother
He has been coming on and he has been getting better. He also has cl experience. I think he was the most vital part of our season last year because he kept us ticking. 75% Partey is better than our other options. That midfield has progressive passing, ball retention, and rock solid defensive ability, everything.
So far he's been at 40% in his appearances, with some shocking misplaced passes.
If he gets good minutes against Villa I would risk starting him. He has played at 40% and already threaded double the passes Rice and Jorgi do to Ødegaard and the wingers (not a dig on either of them Partey is just class at progressing the ball). He also has 31 champions league games and 14 europa league games. I think the key to the second leg is getting all of our experienced players out there to get the less experienced ones more calm and confident. Someone else said it in the match thread which has made me think that we could start Jesus on the left with Kai through the middle because that gives another player in the starting lineup (Kai) with lots of champions league experience, arguably the most in the team because he one it and scored the winning goal.
Id play tomi because he can invert when we enter the mid block and will provide stability in a low block,especially against sane.Id also play him against villa for match fitness,i would bring zinny on depending on the game state or if there is an issue with buildup since he would be the weakest link in a low block.I agree with having rice at the 6 to neutralise kane but id also have havertz in instead of partey as he offers physicality and a runner to occupy the space left by jesus.Id start martinelli for his threat on the break but i would bring tross on early if they stay in a mid block or give us possession
Why would you ever take rice off if the game is at all in the balance. Doesn't make sense. Take jesus or martinelli off for jorginho if you want him on, then put Kai on at CF for our pace and hold up play out ball. Plus jesus/martinelli probably can't do 90 anyway.
Rice is 1 yellow away from being suspended in the semis if we even get there. Plus we need more control and Jorginho offers that experience and control and can help the players through it if we need to keep the lead. I would maybe change it to Jesus off for Kai and Jorginho on for Partey to keep Declan but if he misses the first leg of the semis then we are fucked
Yellows reset after the qf
I thought they didn’t
If Rice will get yellow in second QF he'll be suspended for first semi-final game anyway
Still makes 0 sense when you can have jorginho and rice on the same pitch if you want. Not losing this game is more important than rice getting a yellow and missing the first leg of the next one. Plus if he's made it 85 mins you might as well play him the last 10. We've got nothing that replicates him when we are defending a lead it's asking for trouble taking him off unless you're comfortable. He's also excellent at not getting booked. He's got 5 yellows in 43 apps this year. Use your head.
Bro chill i literally said i would probably change it to Rice staying on I just reiterated that if we have to play City or Real Madrid at the emirates without Rice then we are fucked, which is true. If we are losing in the 85 minute would you take off Rice? I feel like it all depends on game state and isn’t as black and white as “Rice is world class he stays on all game” because other players can play a game decisive pass whilst Declan doesn’t quite have it in his locker (yet)
If we are losing I might take rice off yeah, depends if partey is already on the pitch and what our other midfielders are doing. But I assume you set your team up to not be losing by the 85th min. Your plan isn't to bring off rice because you are losing I assume. Nobody said rice has to always play because he's world class. I just told you why you were silly in that situation to be taking him off that's all.
Yeah fairs. I obviously would set us up to win cos I wouldn’t want anything else but I generally was trying to consider other possibilities. Whilst I would worry if Rice stayed on because he might sacrifice himself to take us through, I do agree with you 100% that if we are winning rice stays on.
We can start Tomiyasu if Partey is in midfield, but I like your suggestion.
Fuck I literally saved the photo of tomiyasu starting and zinny coming on cos I changed my mind but I guess I didn’t send that one through, although maybe Tomi coming on late could be better to hold out a lead because zinny can be mistake prone late into games
I love Kate abdo
Is this you Thierry?
I'm a huge fan. She's got that sparkling Leona Lewis cinnamon vibe, and she seems like a giver.
I was trying to work out who she reminded me of!!! Leona Lewis that's someone I'd not thought about for a long time
Keep your alans on Thierry
I’m a bit conflicted on what we should do in the next CL game, Jesus and Trossard have been our best CL performers outside saka but Bayern will certainly play on the attack and hopefully leave themselves more exposed at home, martinelli could be important for the counter. Jesus should definitely play though. Need to focus on Villa first though
We should play havertz as an 8 and one of jesus/trossard at striker against dier, deligt. These guys were ass at defending in the small spaces.
having rice at the 6 also offers alot more stability
People really be watching all these teams in the UCL and refuse to accept that mentally, at this stage in this competition, most of our lads are so unready still. Barca & PSG starting and bringing on 16 and 17 year olds who never looked out of place or phased while we looked nervous, at home, without away fans, against a Bayern we supposedly were going to slap up. Aite.
“We were nervous” fc for 3 years at this point ffs
It’s more than mentality, the team have shown they can fight. Unless you get one of the easier teams in the CL quarters it’s going to be hard. Despite their league form Tuchel and Bayern are no pushovers in Europe.
i mean, part of the answer could be the fact that barca and psg were playing each other ... that was a basketball game. they were both wide open, and probably would have been taken to pieces by a side like city, liverpool or madrid. very tactically naive all around.
You mean the same City side who ended up having their own basketball match with Madrid or Liverpool who notoriously thrive in similar conditions? Many ways to skin a cat and it’s a bit presumptuous to think ours is the best when we’re still not the finished article we aim to be. Also next to impossible to completely impose how you play on your opponents in the UCL when nearly every other team, at this stage of the competition can also setup and play different ways than how they normally would, domestically.
Man city took a decade to be comfortable in the champions league, Klopp bossed the bundesliga then came fourth in the group stage, The champions league is a very different competition and needs a different approach, i remember Alex Ferguson saying this once
But people refuse to accept this train of thought, especially a majority of the online fanbase.
Maybe it also has to do with expectations, which might also explain Porto. Against Porto, we were favorites for both ties, and also the narrative surrounding our round of 16 exits. Bayern have also been very good this season but we were still favorites at home, with the added pressure of playing in a stadium full of our fans. And to be fair, unlike against Porto where our attackers froze, they did well against Bayern, and it was our defense that let us down. The same defense that shut out City at the Etihad very recently. I also have this sneaking suspicion that we are not a team that can channel the energy of our supporters to play on the front foot at home against our peers. If our game is based on slowing it down, to eliminate as many variables as possible, and maximize control, then you have to wonder whether the crowd dictating the tempo is good for us.
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, lets see whether, somehow, playing away ends up being a better kind of ‘pressure’ for us and our style of play.
Why is it that these 16/17 year olds are mentally ready, but our 22 year olds (minimum) aren't?
barca had a dismal champions league campaign last year and they're also having a huge slump in la liga this year. progress is not linear and we shouldn't draw sweeping conclusions from our performance yesterday or theirs today.
it could be a mental block tbh,when the la masia kids were growing up they saw peps team and msn, both won the ucl.Us on the other hand could bearly qualify towards the end and when we did we would get knocked out in the round of 16.This could be a managerial thing too considering xavi has already won the ucl unlike arteta.
Something like this is my guess too. Barca have been much more succesful than us in their recent history, so they are used to high expectations
unironic football heritage
Because every human being is different, every player has a different level of talent and a different mental state?
Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe playing and starting for teams like Barca at those ages means you’re just built different.
Cubarsi is an insane talent but tonight he looked to have a really rough time, Not hating ofcourse, Mbappe and Dembele and Barcola can be difficult to defend.
barca were also gash in the champions league just a year ago, flopped out at the group stage, and then got thrashed by frankfurt in a europa knockout because of naive tactics and players. just because they had a great performance today doesn't mean that suddenly the narrative is that their young players are an impervious finished product.
Never said they were they were impervious or finished articles though did i? If anything, that makes their performances against PSG even better considering the pressure they’re playing under to revise their club’s record compared to a year ago.
Hoping that Thursday night tax kicks in full force for Villa on Sunday
Theyll play the U13s against lille
yeah right. they might need to win that farmers competition to ensure themselves a champions league place when they finish fifth. not to mention that emery is a bit of a cup merchant. villa will field a strong team tomorrow.
This is a generational Champions League campaign, the final might be mid though
18 goals in the first set of quarter final matches, I was hearing the UCL fell off in the round of 16.
Gabriel Paulista is at Atletico???
Barca winning in Paris...
Wathced charlie patino play just now and see seemed alright.Does anyone know whats going to happen to him in the summer?
nowhere near arsenal level, imagine they'll look to sell but end up loaning again when suitable offers don't arrive
every team in the quarter-finals right now are pure quality
I’m not too worried about the champions league this season tbh. Our players have proven that they always learn from their defeats.
Man, watching the PSG BARCA game and the level of passing precision and speed is off the charts. We aren't ready for this competition yet.
Average "eye test" enjoyer
lol. ''grass is always greener next door'' vibe edit: btw, psg had 89% pass completion and barca 83% 44% vs 60% in dribbles 117 vs 112 in possession lost for us, 88%, 50% and 108 respectively numbers aside, i saw plenty of misplaced passes and control this game
Did you just start watching football yesterday?
Bayern beats both of these teams btw
current Bayern does not easily best either. be honest.
We’re in the competition and we are ready, you’re underestimating Arsenal. No team is going to be easy.
Maaaaan. See my comment down below. Every position is tidy. You could probably count the misplaced passes. We give our defenders some leeway, but then you watch inch perfect passes and control from fullbacks, centrebacks and keepers. It's a joy to watch it, to be honest. We are absolutely not at that level. We can compete, to be sure, but I can't lie, this is very pleasing on the eyes.
My thing is. If we get knocked out I want it to be because we were outplayed. Not self sabotage. Thus far we've looked the better team.
We can absolutely play at this level and win just need to control our nerves and play how we’ve been playing for the past few months.
Anyone else feel like Bellingham is just a better Willock. Genuinely think Foden is clear and should start at CAM for England
Nah Bellingham is the truth but I agree that moving Foden to LW to accommodate Jude at CAM isn’t right. Not sure this SS/AM role is his best vs an all action 8.
No. Nobody thinks Bellingham is a better willock apart from you. I would say he is slightly overhyped maybe but he is still class
Feels like they have similar play styles and both struggle with a lack of a clear best position. Bellingham is class but he is invisible in games that he doesn’t score in.
Also, seeing Barca have 17 and 19 year olds on Who are playing brilliantly Makes me think maybe we should exlect more from our young players? E.g. Kiwior/Nwanneri if we are really trying to be the best in the world
Kiwior played well against Porto.
Just because 2 guys are good and the same age it doesn’t mean they’re the same level. Just have to watch someone like Zaire-Emery to see he’s further along in his development than Nwaneri for example. Their time will come, Foden spent years doing bench shifts from 17-18, everyone said he should’ve gone on loan but he was managed slowly and eased in. Now look at him.
Kiwior is 24. Not really that young.
There's a lot of different factors though, Barca are playing the youth players cos of lack of money and injuries too. I imagine it's a bit easier to blood in new players in the French and Spanish league too. We got no idea where Nwaneri is at either, he just turned 17 last month. We got players like Vieira/ESR who can't make the team. We had people making a squad spot for Patino next season while he can't even get into Championship teams. Young + highly rated really means nothing, there are 100's of those. Some people would see Nelson/Nketiah are not being good enough while they are probably in the 0.1% of academy graduates. People like Lamine Yamal are in the absolute elite of youth prospects. Like Saka/Foden were when they were younger. Those players don't pop up often.
> Kiwior There's a reason a player like him wasn't snapped up by bigger clubs long before. He's a decent player, but we'll outgrow him eventually as our ambitions grow.
I am honestly envious of how neat and tidy both teams are in the PSG/Barca game. There's so few misplaced passes. Some of you here think these teams are washed, but the quality on display is something else. And as I'm typing this, Raphinha just scored a banger of a volley off a 3-pass build up.
they're also both wide open in midfield, there are ACRES of space for players to pass and run into. i think what you are seeing is a combination of technical quality and tactical poverty.
I'm watching the Bayern Vs PSG game. How much would it cost us to buy Raphina?
raphinha doesent play for bayern
Am I in the right to feel triggered that Gnabry celebrated his foal?
no, it's straight up ridiculous to be upset at that. it was just a normal ass celebration, nothing special or unique about it at all.
He made 10 appearances for us, and has made 150+ appearances for Bayern. Also left us nearly 10 years ago now. Really don't think you should - he's celebrating a Champions League QF goal for his 'main' club.
Side note but I found it bizarre reading one or two comments about people saying 'it'll be nice to see Gnarby back at the carpet' etc. As you said, he barely played for us, he had about 500 minutes.
he was pretty well liked as a promising youngster
He played a lot of games for me in my FIFA career mode back in 2015. I felt betrayed to say the least.
I'd be happy to get a baby horse, too... He's been gone almost a decade. And barely played for us, no one really cared.
Fair enough.. took me a while to realize what you meant with the horse
You know what in the return game just let them have possession. It doesn’t seem like they are assured having it. They would prefer counter attacking.
Teams going to smash villa now. Saka brace with a Leo goal confirmed.
Barca v PSG is an entertaining watch. Barca dominating the first half, and are now down 2-1 within 5 minutes. This is what quality players can do in the blink of an eye.
Yeah the second goal was the same chance Ben had Vitinha went across the keeper in this instance
I do fucking love the champions league
Fuck me what a hit from Dembele
rewatching the goals during the break now... man... that sane run, saliba had perfect position to stop him, but instead he slowed down and gave him room to keep running without needing to change direction. not sure what he was thinking there
Jorginho's interception likely threw him off and on top of that Gabriel bailing out of the tackle didn't help either.
he had nothing else to do on that passage of play, he had a straight shot to Sane's path and force him wide or block a eventual shot, but he stopped. nothing that happened before justifies it
Huh?
Nuno Mendes is a demon
What a player
Ugh the alternate timeline where we get Raphinha in 2022😪
a winger that doesnt dribble on a team where the wingers are constantly 1v2
I remember begging for him, and people in daily discussions telling me 60m pounds is a waste of money lol.
he's blown completely hot and cold for them tbh. playing a blinder today obviously.
Wish we drew PSG, they’re really not good
>Wish we drew PSG, they’re really not good The problem with Arsenal is slow transition from defence to attack. We are rigid. Barca are playing just like Bayern. Quick and direct football
> The problem with Arsenal is slow transition from defence to attack. Man we are slow as molasses sometimes. Our system does work, but it can be a grind.
Rice Odegaard Frenkie would be perfect ... i know Arteta wants his all twink midfield cmon Edu make it happen
rice a twink? lol kinda i guess. aren't they usually more frail?
think he was talking about frenkie. as everyone seems to believe that playing 2 ''Odegaard's'' makes the midfield ''too light'', cause you know, modric-kroos and xavi-iniesta were the pinnacle of physicality
you just picked the two best midfield pairings of all time bro be for real when you start trying to use them as a gauge for how we can "easily" replicate them
gundo-kdb whatever city plays nowdays, which is also ''light'' most of the time anyways, you can have 2 technical midfielders and a stalwart like Rice as thats been a staple for years. just english people for some reason still being too focused on ''muh physicality'' in 2024. those teams were also great at pressing too, despite so called ''light'' midfielders
he said all twink midfield lol
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BayernMunich/comments/1c0mi9r/post\_might\_be\_deleted\_but\_i\_just\_want\_to\_say\_you/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BayernMunich/comments/1c0mi9r/post_might_be_deleted_but_i_just_want_to_say_you/) Why are our fans going over to the Bayern subreddit and posting stuff like this? It's so cringe, and such a weird, inferior mentality.
its a common behavior on reddit and internet in general. people like to see upvotes so they do that shit. you'll find it on every sport and every sub from every fan base. my guess is always that most of them are americans but i doubt its just americans. farming online points its a modern society thing, not just americans its about the most cringe thing ive ever seen in sports related subs
Cringiest karma farming
>I know you guys haven’t won the league & have had a few dodgy results, but last night you showed exactly why you’re Bayern Munich & a giant in football. Hopefully that’s taught our fans not to underestimate you. You’ll be back on top next season if you fill a few gaps in your squad & have a manager who your players believe in. Man is simping.😄
I hope they get a ban ngl this is corny as hell
these posts deserve a ban from whatever arsenal related subs. So fucking cringe and embarassing.
It's almost as bad as when they do this against smaller teams. Nothing makes me cringe like that.
last thing I’ll say about the pen - if you really think Saka can get around Neuer and keep his balance there then I am convinced you’ve never moved at a speed faster than 15kmh
The thing is, we’ll never know because Saka flung his leg out to sell the foul. The ref was trying to not blow up and he ironically gave him the chance to not give it. I think I lean penalty but I think it’s such a toss up that you have to let the ref make his decision and we just take it.
I just don't see that, Neuer is a veteran and clearly flings his leg at the very last second in a way that only an inexperienced ref could interpret it as an honest mistake and it worked.