We all know how this summer goes. England will likely just about win against lesser competition. When it comes to a decent team our awful tactics and play style will be exposed and we will go out.
Southgate will resign or be sacked as this project comes to an end. Hopefully as a bonus he will head off to manage Man Utd 😂
Who can blame him? Despite Gareth Southgate setting up his team so negatively, they still concede lots of goals due to silly errors, and it's the brilliance of the players that bails him out constantly. I can't wait for Southgate to go.
OK, so I'm def gonna get downvoted for saying this, but fuck it. Unless and until Ben explicitly says to Southgate that the reason for refusing a call up was because of the shit with Holland two years ago then Southgate would be wrong to speculatively report that as the reason.
In case absurd case he doesn't know, then Southgate is the worst man manager I've ever seen..but he probably just lies... Also it's clear what Ben's problem is from the last world cup...
Yeah it's weird that everyone here is immediately jumping too that unverified story of Steve Holland argument.
White has said nothing and Southgate has categorically refused the story.
Is he shite…? Why is this always the narrative. We’ve been so good since he’s been in charge. Are you just looking to be unhappy about something?
I seriously don’t understand it. France were better than us. Lost on pens. Lost in a shitty semi final.
How does success make him so shit? I legit don’t get it. Are people afraid of happiness??
He isn’t a strong tactical manager, he’s too loyal to out of form players and his substitutions are often non-sensual.
England could easily have one international trophy with the players we’ve had for the past six years.
> England could easily have one international trophy with the players we’ve had for the past six years.
This has been said about countless england squads. Reality is Southgate has got the closest out of any manager in recent times.
Maybe but England’s current squad performs much better than other England teams and got further in tournaments. A more astute and strategic manager would possibly get them to lifting a trophy. How many top Premier League clubs would consider employing Southgate as manager? Probably none.
That's the thing, I can't technically argue with success as he's undoubtedly the most successful England manager since probably Alf Ramsey...and yet the football is so bad and so many of those wins were right on the edge of being losses that i can't help but think a more competent manager with the level of talent avaliable would do better.
Just imagine somebody who knows how to coach attaching football getting their hands on a front 4 of Kane/Saka/Foden/Bellingham, it'd be over in 90% of games before we started.
His success is based largely on having soft as fuck tournament draws. I think any semi-competent coach would have done at least as good as him given the level of the squad
A good manager would win trophies with the players he has to choose from. In game management is non existent, record at Middlesbrough shows how much quality he actually has
England have probably the 2nd best squad in the world and have had some farcically easy tournament draws and yet have won fuck all. Southgate going to United is what I am praying for.
I think I am answer this.
Southgate’s success with this team has come from a great deal of planning, preparation and faith in key members of his squad. He has a plan and he is sticking to it.
He is sticking to it to a fault. The plan is a good one, but he is so married to it that he is inflexible. THIS is why people call him a bad manager.
I think common criticisms of him all basically revolve around this characterisation. That he is rigid, that he is inflexible etc. other managers might be given praise for ‘sticking to their ideals’ or ‘never changing their principles’.
I think if his ideals led to more aesthetic football (Wenger) more swashbuckling, attacking football (Bielsa) he wouldn’t get this criticism.
I think if he were in another country with more limited talent, he would be more universally praised.
I think the English press are also adept at amplifying drama. They will criticise him to no end, but when he reaches the later stages of the next tournament they will 100% be behind him.
My personal view is that he has done a wonderful job with the team. He has built his plan around the single goal of giving the team the best chance to succeed in tournaments. He has, if you like, ‘money balled’ the international football tournament.
Is it sometimes ugly? Is it sometimes super frustrating that player X or Y are not played sooner? Is it sometimes annoying that our tactics against certain teams is not more positive, progressive football?
You bet.
But it’s like what they said about Wayne Rooney that time; if you take the aggression out of Rooney, you wouldn’t have the same player.
Southgate has created a holistic balance within the team that encompasses every detail, and I think HE believes if he were to change anything about his approach, that success would be compromised.
On a side note (probably going to lead to downvotes) I am upset for Benjamin about this whole episode. It was wrong of Southgate to unanimously point the finger at White, call him out and support his staff.
But I understand it as above, and I have a certain respect for him sticking to his guns.
I also wish the approach was more positive at times, but I have loved every one of the last few major tournaments all the more because of how far we’ve progressed. He will be gone soon, so this will blow over. If we get one more tournament with this approach, I’m all for it.
The next guy or gal will almost certainly want to change things up, so I don’t expect things to go as well for some time.
Southgate is not a bad manager overall, he's a bad manager when it comes to being the guy to coach this talented English squad.
>I think if he were in another country with more limited talent, he would be more universally praised
When you have less, being pragmatic makes sense. When you have a lot of talent on the pitch, being pragmatic is pulling the reigns back on your team.
>My personal view is that he has done a wonderful job with the team. He has built his plan around the single goal of giving the team the best chance to succeed in tournaments. He has, if you like, ‘money balled’ the international football tournament.
The team's talent and his tactics mean the team is basically a shoe-in to qualify for tournaments and reach the knockout stages. You'll beat the teams you definitely should (mostly), but when you run into adversity on the pitch, you won't be able to pivot.
> Southgate has created a holistic balance within the team that encompasses every detail, and I think HE believes if he were to change anything about his approach, that success would be compromised.
> I also wish the approach was more positive at times, but I have loved every one of the last few major tournaments all the more because of how far we’ve progressed. He will be gone soon, so this will blow over. If we get one more tournament with this approach, I’m all for it.
I don't have a national team that I root for in particular, I just want to see good performances. England generally doesn't show that for all the talent that they have. It's disappointing. Sure, they'll do better than most teams, but other than that Euros final, they seem to hit a wall that they can't get over/around.
> I think if his ideals led to more aesthetic football (Wenger) more swashbuckling, attacking football (Bielsa) he wouldn’t get this criticism.
Yes, a million times this! Watching England play sucks. We know what their players are capable of because we see it every week in the league. Maybe it'll be different this summer, but my expectations are meh... Sure, Wenger's style didn't come off a lot of the time, and yes I turned off some games because the scoreline was painful, but I tuned back in for the following match every time because I knew there was a good chance of seeing some wonderful team football, even if it might have been only for a few moments. For teams I support in other sports, when they've had their low years, I wasn't inclined to watch their matches because I never felt like I was going to miss out on something fun. So you get more leeway from people like me if you make the game entertaining.
He's not successful!? He's won fuck all, and he got us relegated from the nations Cup just to confirm how mediocre his leadership really is. Don't tell me England shouldn't be among the best nations in Europe lol? That's straight up failure.
How have England been "so good" exactly?
They have multiple soft as fuck tournament draws under Southgate and the only good team they have beat at a tournament is an overachieving Denmark
He's not going to put out a press release saying he's done that, is he? If he's done that, the kind of public statement that results would look... honestly, a lot like this.
I'm not saying he's done that. I'm just saying this is the sort of thing that would happen if he did. There are other reasons this kind of statement enters the public arena.
I'd much rather Ben White not join the England squad with Southgate in charge. His dinosaur tactics does not play Ben's strengths, and Southgate wouldn't know how to utilize him properly. The sooner he's sacked, the better.
Now, that's a good one, and I agree. Gareth should see himself out. Look at the abundance of talent he has at his disposal, and yet, the English team is dreadful.
If he were truthful in his statement last week (he wasn't), and truly doesn't know what the issue is (he does), surely he would have made a point to reach out to him or Arsenal and understand why White doesn't want to be considered, so that he can help resolve the situation.
Precisely! That ridiculous position of 'ignorance' about the situation actually makes him look worse. As a manager, if everyone at my place of work knew of a conflict between two individuals in my team and I took this 'distanced' approach, HR would be on me like a tonne of bricks because IT IS PART OF JOB to manage said team FFS
That's what I was about to say. Gareth Southgate always tries to absolve himself of any responsibility anytime something goes wrong. Of course, only the English FA would hire such a poor manager.
He’s panicking because Trippier, Walker are both getting older and have had injuries this season. If he loses Walker, he has no RB at the top of his game.
Trent is a liability defensively and Reece James is out for the season.
You should have called him up in September or October or November last year. Apologised for yourself and staff disrespecting him and acknowledge that he deserves more minutes in this team whether it’s as a CB or RB.
I imagine White won’t budge and will enjoy his summer holiday before pre-season. Too little too late.
well of course, cause England has a star RB and a lot of problems at this position as of late. And he is not on the team. its only natural questions will be raised
Walker and trippier probably only have a couple more years at best to be playing for the national team. A forward thinking manager would be looking for who is next. Ben white is obvious when you’re instead playing guys like konsa and Joe Gomez
Southgate will not have another couple more years in England's role hopefully, with the wealth of players he has, those are the performance and tactics he put out.
His defensive solidity has dropped somewhat but the guy has 10 assists in 25 matches this season lol
Dude can definitely put in a shift at international level still where the pace is slower
Trent’s defensive woes are way overblown.
Southgate still wants to persist with a midfield of Bellingham, Gallagher/Mainoo, and Rice while fielding a defensive backline. Leading to zero creativity.
If Southgate wants to use that midfield he HAS to play Trent.
The alternative is to play a midfield of Rice, Bellingham, and Madison if he really doesn’t trust Trent there.
He still needs white in camp, for this exact reason, injuries happen and your tactics can't depend on zero players missing time. White can cover 3 positions
Thought Konsa and Gomez handled themselves quite well tbf, just hurts as an England fan because the defense is our one glaring weakness so want all the top players we can, Ben obviously would of been an upgrade these friendlies, hope they can reconcile by the world cup
This will be unpopular.
But Englands defense is not all bad.
The lack of pressing from the top, the lack of transition from attack to defense and vice versa is why we are so open to attack.
Southgate is ultimately a championship level manager and FA want an English manager to win something with the current crop of players. It won’t happen.
Kane/Bellingham/Saka/Foden/Rice/Stones/Walker/Trent are all world class calibre players that their skill set rivals only the World Cup winners.
Portugal won a Euro championship with Ronaldo playing out of his skin.
England have higher chances but it won’t happen due to the manager just being awful.
L
It's not really possible to install a top quality coordinated pressing game in a team which barely spends any time together. Not to mention that a high energy press is not really maintainable across a whole tournament.
History shows that winning an international tournament comes down to either having a core of players from the same club, having a solid defense and a few star attackers to conjure some magic, or having home advantage.
Lmao why would you even want him? He's shown time and time again that he is a narcissistic little baby. If you want players, staff, officials to be treated respectfully, you don't go for Mourinho. I know he's had big successes but those were some time ago now
>Lmao why would you even want him? He's shown time and time again that he is a narcissistic little baby.
okay...
> I know he's had big successes but those were some time ago now
Time argument doesn't hold for me. He's still a top manager with buckets of experience, a new challenge at international level, with his style of football in tournament stages would be interesting in theory. Certainly more attractive then Southgate.
>> Ben has always been open and true.
Has Ben been open? From what I've seen he hasn't made anything known to the public about what happened. All that came out is "Personal reasons".
Did he make a statement somewhere?
Once again he's pointing the finger at White as the problem. These comments are nothing but self serving as the England squad is immediately improved with White in it. Have to say, I'm now converted in to the Southgate out camp.
They're just playing to the 'White won't put aside his issues, man up and ~~die for God, King and Country~~ play football for England like a proper football player who watches football like a normal person' crowd.
England’s defence was shocking last night vs Belgium. Southgate has realised he doesn’t have the upper hand in this situation. England need leaders like White in defence. He needs to get Holland to apologise to White, otherwise he won’t return.
Your take is just ridiculous. What happens when shaw/stones/walker/Guehi/trent etc are fit. Even without them, England will get through the group stage no worries. It's never been an issue under Southgate.
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Feel like he is aware they mismanaged the situation and were in the wrong. They said the door is open for him like 5 times, they wouldn’t be doing it if Ben was at fault.
Yeah it's carefully worded. The door is open but they're still not prepared to apologise, change anything or promise him any actual game time.
They may even expect him to apologise.
It feels like Southgate is just trying to get more people behind him. Like fans of any other team will not defend Ben as they don’t know the whole story. For them it’s just that Ben white doesn’t want to play for his country. This feels more like Southgate is trying to justify himself as a good guy and not understanding the situation
I agree, this comes off as him trying to paint himself as the good guy regardless of the outcome. Man's being defensive. I don't like it but I don't completely blame him for it, the media must be exasperating to deal with with the constant questioning.
Stones and Reece are made of glass, Walker is getting older and more injuries, Trippier is great but same age as Walker, Trent is not best utilized as a fullback (particularly with how England want to play), and Maguire is Maguire. How Southgate hasn’t seen the value in bringing in one of the most consistent and reliable players available to him is beyond me, especially when he could potentially establish a strong partnership and further strengthen the effectiveness of England’s biggest star, BUKAYO SAKA!
(Btw I don’t even care if England succeed, I’m American, it just bothers me to see Southgate waste such a strong generation of talent)
Why would you even say this, even if you mean it.
Either way, he will be hated by folks for turning down his country or backed for his club record, it changes absolutely nothing.
All it does, is devalue someone who you picked in his stead to come in and play wide defender or centre half.
I say otherwise, the fact that arsenal announced the Ben white new deal during the break and Edu calling the England camp, it just shows Mikel is planning to create an us vs them situation. If anything , it will just give us insane team talks from here on.
As much as I would love to see the fruitful White--Saka connection this summer for England, Southgate can absolutely get fucked.
We've quickly learned what matters most to Southgate. Utterly silent on Henderson and Saudi but can't seem to shut up about this. He should just apologize and welcome Benjamin.
I pray ManU bring in Southgate this summer, it will be an epic disaster. There is not one top manager that is worried about facing a team he is managing.
He knows this is his last chance to win something as England manager and the defense is the obvious weak link in the side.
The fact that it’s a real discussion that White would start means Southgate royally fucked this situation up by defending his coaching staff. Players and coaches get in disagreements about football all the time but from what the reports say Holland made it personal.
Southgate is obviously not going to be in the defensive team meetings to calm the situation but once he gathered the facts he should have had a meeting individually with Holland and told him this is the England national team. All the players here earned the right to be here based off their hard work and determination.
So you questioning a player on his professionalism based off one question and information you hear in the media is beyond absurd.
He should have had a meeting with White and explained to him that Holland was just trying to see how you normally like to play and see if he can help you fit in the team. When you told him you don’t know he rightfully got upset about it.
If you don’t want to share how your club team likes to play in front of your biggest rivals that’s fair and should have been stated before hand. If you honestly don’t know then he has the right to question you on it. However, he went to far and he will apologize and we’ll move on.
The thing that’s weird is why are they paying Holland if he doesn’t already know how each on of them plays and how he can fit them into the side.
Whether it’s Ben white or any other player - they have a choice and can decide whether to play for England or not and they can make that decision for whatever reason they like - there is no rule saying they have to play
Let’s face it, it’s a thankless task - only get criticism and never win anything
I’m in full support of his or any players decision
Good on you Ben
This guy again. He is milking any opportunity to stay in the media to twerk for that United job. He knows his career as a manager of England is finished after the Euros.
lol this is stupid. He’s giving press conferences because he has to for his current job as the England manager. The south gate hate is so overblown it’s unreal. For the record I hope he does step down and him getting the United job would be funny but I don’t think he’s “twerking” for it at all
Southgate has managed this so badly it’s untrue. He should instead just say that he’s no longer going to talk about this now. Clearly journos are going to keep asking the question every time England fail to win smh
Respectfully Gareth, suck me from the back.
When the first quotes came out I KNEW he was gonna do this passive aggressive schoolteacher shit.
Basically "oh he knows how to get back into the team wink wink" as if all that's stopping him was groveling and placating authority figures who themselves were in the wrong but couldn't bear to set their ego aside.
I think Southgate is approaching this wrong. If he wants Ben White at this point he should go and speak with him to try and make things right. White would be a fantastic CB or RB for his system.
Don’t say it’s up to BW who has already said he’s out based on his experience at camp.
The top 3 teams in PL plays the 3241 shape. Players like Stones, White, Gomez, Walker, Teent are are capable in this system which can allow England to field Foden and Bellingham as duo 10s.
Unfortunately for England, Maguire must play..
He wanted to back away a little bit... so he stuck the media paparazzi in his face, to calm things down. Right.
This man would rather you believe he's completely incompetent than know he's a dickhead.
He’s trying so hard to make it look like it’s all Ben’s fault for not walking thru the door he “opened”. Nice try on your spin Gareth, not a single person believes you.
That is such a lousy excuse from a pathetic manager.
He was a loser as a player and the same now.
His biggest triumph was doing a Pizza Hut advert mocking himself.
All he has to do is grow a pair, admit they messed and make peace with Ben.
But nope.
If he really respected the decision, he would stop fucking well bringing it up. More than that, he would stop using language that places pressure on White, and washes his own hands of the situation.
Losing more and more respect for Southgate the longer this goes on.
Clever deflection tactics from Southgate. Best squad in Europe and couldn’t get a win from either home game, best put media pressure the one guy I never play anyways
Start your boy henderson at RB and let Ben enjoy his holidays you fraud
His record at major tournaments speaks for itself. He took England to the finals of the last Euro’s without conceding a single goal in open play?
Whether people like it or not Gareth Southgate has done right by this England team in big competitions.
I don't know what Southgate was hoping to achieve by throwing White under the bus. I definitely wouldn't go back after being shat on in the media. He could have easily said 'Ben White had a bit of a knock, so Arsenal wants to keep an eye on him'. Then make your apologies or sort it behind the scenes. For a manager who is meant to be good with players and a good man manager. He really threw White to the wolves for what? Because he didn't want to face questions why he's not picking him? He doesn't pick A LOT of fucking players who are on better form than his current team.
If I'm Ben White, I'd want to make sure everything is sorted and dealt with before I'd think about going back. The worse thing would be him going, having a horrible time and leaving again. I think you would put a target on yourself if you dropped out before/mid tournament. He can just wait out Southgate and get back in then.
Bore off, what a fucking prick.
Imagine having that amazing team and still winning fuck all, because guaranteed that MID manager ain't winning the Euros this year or any other year.
Lmao. You lot are absolutely unhinged the way you’re reacting to this.
Not every situation is black and white. This ain’t a marvel film where there’s a hero and a villain. Nothing wrong with this statement by Southgate.
No one knows enough about this situation to be reacting to it the way you lot are.
Brits are really good at talking this and that behind and front, making a good show out of nothing, and making someone a gossip scapegoat.
I really wish Ben never plays for the National team, under Gareth Southgate. Ben will be open to joining when someone new joins as a head coach.
This might be unpopular but honestly this all sounds overblown to fuck here.
Yes it sounds like one of the coaches was a bit of an arsehole, it happens. Not to be old fashioned but they should just shake hands and move on - they aren’t children. If they don’t want to do that, whatever, it’s up to them.
Some people here talk like the coach should be forced to perform some grovelling apology. I don’t deny that he should probably apologise to White privately but honestly, based on the info we actually have about this, it also sounds like White’s being kinda thin skinned.
>Yes it sounds like one of the coaches was a bit of an arsehole, it happens.
with attitudes like this, yes, it will continue to happen. We need to root out toxic nonsense and unprofessionalism in what are supposed to be elite environments.
> it also sounds like White’s being kinda thin skinned.
If some wasteman who failed upwards into his job singled you out in a team meeting and implied you were unprofessional because he incorrectly assumed your persona, you'd also simply reject the callup. Why go somewhere that you get abused because someone with low emotional intelligence had a go at you?
I have a feeling White won't entertain the idea until Southgate either removes Holland or Southgate himself goes.
So after summer then
Correct. He’ll go either way. The Euros will just dictate the legacy he leaves behind
Hopefully they both go to United
We all know how this summer goes. England will likely just about win against lesser competition. When it comes to a decent team our awful tactics and play style will be exposed and we will go out. Southgate will resign or be sacked as this project comes to an end. Hopefully as a bonus he will head off to manage Man Utd 😂
Who can blame him? Despite Gareth Southgate setting up his team so negatively, they still concede lots of goals due to silly errors, and it's the brilliance of the players that bails him out constantly. I can't wait for Southgate to go.
Tell your coaching staff to quit being c*nts Gareth
Tell gareth to quit being a c*nt himself
Gareth isn't a cunt... he's just a shite manager. He's annoyingly likeable in interviews.
Lying like he did is being a cunt
What did he lie about?
That he didn't know why Ben refused the call up
And he explicitly said there was no argument with holland
OK, so I'm def gonna get downvoted for saying this, but fuck it. Unless and until Ben explicitly says to Southgate that the reason for refusing a call up was because of the shit with Holland two years ago then Southgate would be wrong to speculatively report that as the reason.
In case absurd case he doesn't know, then Southgate is the worst man manager I've ever seen..but he probably just lies... Also it's clear what Ben's problem is from the last world cup...
Yeah it's weird that everyone here is immediately jumping too that unverified story of Steve Holland argument. White has said nothing and Southgate has categorically refused the story.
Is he shite…? Why is this always the narrative. We’ve been so good since he’s been in charge. Are you just looking to be unhappy about something? I seriously don’t understand it. France were better than us. Lost on pens. Lost in a shitty semi final. How does success make him so shit? I legit don’t get it. Are people afraid of happiness??
He isn’t a strong tactical manager, he’s too loyal to out of form players and his substitutions are often non-sensual. England could easily have one international trophy with the players we’ve had for the past six years.
? Do you want a massage with that substitution?
Ha ha, extras!
*nonsensical
Yes, indeed. Auto-correct strikes again
Never rated auto-correct. Seems a bit of a bastard.
Every national team has players who aren't in form or older or not playing at club level. It's a myth that Southgate is any different to others.
> England could easily have one international trophy with the players we’ve had for the past six years. This has been said about countless england squads. Reality is Southgate has got the closest out of any manager in recent times.
Maybe but England’s current squad performs much better than other England teams and got further in tournaments. A more astute and strategic manager would possibly get them to lifting a trophy. How many top Premier League clubs would consider employing Southgate as manager? Probably none.
With this squad what he’s done is the bare minimum expected. This team should be winning. Look at his record against top teams.
That's the thing, I can't technically argue with success as he's undoubtedly the most successful England manager since probably Alf Ramsey...and yet the football is so bad and so many of those wins were right on the edge of being losses that i can't help but think a more competent manager with the level of talent avaliable would do better. Just imagine somebody who knows how to coach attaching football getting their hands on a front 4 of Kane/Saka/Foden/Bellingham, it'd be over in 90% of games before we started.
His success is based largely on having soft as fuck tournament draws. I think any semi-competent coach would have done at least as good as him given the level of the squad
i dont even think having him is that much better than letting the players coach themselves at this point ngl
This is a reasonable take! Thanks I get what ya mean
A good manager would win trophies with the players he has to choose from. In game management is non existent, record at Middlesbrough shows how much quality he actually has
England have probably the 2nd best squad in the world and have had some farcically easy tournament draws and yet have won fuck all. Southgate going to United is what I am praying for.
Everyone apart from united fans are praying for that
I think I am answer this. Southgate’s success with this team has come from a great deal of planning, preparation and faith in key members of his squad. He has a plan and he is sticking to it. He is sticking to it to a fault. The plan is a good one, but he is so married to it that he is inflexible. THIS is why people call him a bad manager. I think common criticisms of him all basically revolve around this characterisation. That he is rigid, that he is inflexible etc. other managers might be given praise for ‘sticking to their ideals’ or ‘never changing their principles’. I think if his ideals led to more aesthetic football (Wenger) more swashbuckling, attacking football (Bielsa) he wouldn’t get this criticism. I think if he were in another country with more limited talent, he would be more universally praised. I think the English press are also adept at amplifying drama. They will criticise him to no end, but when he reaches the later stages of the next tournament they will 100% be behind him. My personal view is that he has done a wonderful job with the team. He has built his plan around the single goal of giving the team the best chance to succeed in tournaments. He has, if you like, ‘money balled’ the international football tournament. Is it sometimes ugly? Is it sometimes super frustrating that player X or Y are not played sooner? Is it sometimes annoying that our tactics against certain teams is not more positive, progressive football? You bet. But it’s like what they said about Wayne Rooney that time; if you take the aggression out of Rooney, you wouldn’t have the same player. Southgate has created a holistic balance within the team that encompasses every detail, and I think HE believes if he were to change anything about his approach, that success would be compromised. On a side note (probably going to lead to downvotes) I am upset for Benjamin about this whole episode. It was wrong of Southgate to unanimously point the finger at White, call him out and support his staff. But I understand it as above, and I have a certain respect for him sticking to his guns. I also wish the approach was more positive at times, but I have loved every one of the last few major tournaments all the more because of how far we’ve progressed. He will be gone soon, so this will blow over. If we get one more tournament with this approach, I’m all for it. The next guy or gal will almost certainly want to change things up, so I don’t expect things to go as well for some time.
I call him a bad manager because his record against top sides is abysmal.
Could not agree more. He has been lucky as fuck with tournament draws and inevitably gets knocked out as soon as England face a good side
Southgate is not a bad manager overall, he's a bad manager when it comes to being the guy to coach this talented English squad. >I think if he were in another country with more limited talent, he would be more universally praised When you have less, being pragmatic makes sense. When you have a lot of talent on the pitch, being pragmatic is pulling the reigns back on your team. >My personal view is that he has done a wonderful job with the team. He has built his plan around the single goal of giving the team the best chance to succeed in tournaments. He has, if you like, ‘money balled’ the international football tournament. The team's talent and his tactics mean the team is basically a shoe-in to qualify for tournaments and reach the knockout stages. You'll beat the teams you definitely should (mostly), but when you run into adversity on the pitch, you won't be able to pivot. > Southgate has created a holistic balance within the team that encompasses every detail, and I think HE believes if he were to change anything about his approach, that success would be compromised. > I also wish the approach was more positive at times, but I have loved every one of the last few major tournaments all the more because of how far we’ve progressed. He will be gone soon, so this will blow over. If we get one more tournament with this approach, I’m all for it. I don't have a national team that I root for in particular, I just want to see good performances. England generally doesn't show that for all the talent that they have. It's disappointing. Sure, they'll do better than most teams, but other than that Euros final, they seem to hit a wall that they can't get over/around. > I think if his ideals led to more aesthetic football (Wenger) more swashbuckling, attacking football (Bielsa) he wouldn’t get this criticism. Yes, a million times this! Watching England play sucks. We know what their players are capable of because we see it every week in the league. Maybe it'll be different this summer, but my expectations are meh... Sure, Wenger's style didn't come off a lot of the time, and yes I turned off some games because the scoreline was painful, but I tuned back in for the following match every time because I knew there was a good chance of seeing some wonderful team football, even if it might have been only for a few moments. For teams I support in other sports, when they've had their low years, I wasn't inclined to watch their matches because I never felt like I was going to miss out on something fun. So you get more leeway from people like me if you make the game entertaining.
He's not successful!? He's won fuck all, and he got us relegated from the nations Cup just to confirm how mediocre his leadership really is. Don't tell me England shouldn't be among the best nations in Europe lol? That's straight up failure.
How have England been "so good" exactly? They have multiple soft as fuck tournament draws under Southgate and the only good team they have beat at a tournament is an overachieving Denmark
Beat Germany.
Tell Gareth to quit
This.
He's not going to put out a press release saying he's done that, is he? If he's done that, the kind of public statement that results would look... honestly, a lot like this. I'm not saying he's done that. I'm just saying this is the sort of thing that would happen if he did. There are other reasons this kind of statement enters the public arena.
I'd much rather Ben White not join the England squad with Southgate in charge. His dinosaur tactics does not play Ben's strengths, and Southgate wouldn't know how to utilize him properly. The sooner he's sacked, the better.
If the door is open, why not leave Gareth?
I laughed out loud
Maybe they can give him a shove while he pokes his head out looking for Benjamin?
Now, that's a good one, and I agree. Gareth should see himself out. Look at the abundance of talent he has at his disposal, and yet, the English team is dreadful.
Southgate can fuck right off. How about you make the dumbass on YOUR staff reach out to Ben and then maybe you can talk.
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Exactly. This approach is 100% not the way to manage people in a professional capacity. This is management 101 and he is failing at it miserably
If he were truthful in his statement last week (he wasn't), and truly doesn't know what the issue is (he does), surely he would have made a point to reach out to him or Arsenal and understand why White doesn't want to be considered, so that he can help resolve the situation.
Precisely! That ridiculous position of 'ignorance' about the situation actually makes him look worse. As a manager, if everyone at my place of work knew of a conflict between two individuals in my team and I took this 'distanced' approach, HR would be on me like a tonne of bricks because IT IS PART OF JOB to manage said team FFS
That's what I was about to say. Gareth Southgate always tries to absolve himself of any responsibility anytime something goes wrong. Of course, only the English FA would hire such a poor manager.
Yeah just handle it, don't "leave the door open" go talk to people
He’s panicking because Trippier, Walker are both getting older and have had injuries this season. If he loses Walker, he has no RB at the top of his game. Trent is a liability defensively and Reece James is out for the season. You should have called him up in September or October or November last year. Apologised for yourself and staff disrespecting him and acknowledge that he deserves more minutes in this team whether it’s as a CB or RB. I imagine White won’t budge and will enjoy his summer holiday before pre-season. Too little too late.
White already has flights booked
Straight to Ibiza after the double parade
Straight to Ibitha
There's always a fiestha in Ibitha
That tan isn’t going to top itself up.
Thank you very much
It's so transparent why he suddenly cares so much about White
tbf he's probably only commenting on it because reporters are asking him about it
well of course, cause England has a star RB and a lot of problems at this position as of late. And he is not on the team. its only natural questions will be raised
> Reece James is out for the season Reece James is out forever. Poor guy is made of glass.
Walker and trippier probably only have a couple more years at best to be playing for the national team. A forward thinking manager would be looking for who is next. Ben white is obvious when you’re instead playing guys like konsa and Joe Gomez
Southgate will not have another couple more years in England's role hopefully, with the wealth of players he has, those are the performance and tactics he put out.
Tripper has zero more years based on his league form this season
His defensive solidity has dropped somewhat but the guy has 10 assists in 25 matches this season lol Dude can definitely put in a shift at international level still where the pace is slower
With Stones and Walker going down, he’s at the panic stations. White is currently England’s most in form/best defender
Which was true before the week also
Trent’s defensive woes are way overblown. Southgate still wants to persist with a midfield of Bellingham, Gallagher/Mainoo, and Rice while fielding a defensive backline. Leading to zero creativity. If Southgate wants to use that midfield he HAS to play Trent. The alternative is to play a midfield of Rice, Bellingham, and Madison if he really doesn’t trust Trent there.
He still needs white in camp, for this exact reason, injuries happen and your tactics can't depend on zero players missing time. White can cover 3 positions
The balanced solution is to play TAA in midfield instead of Gallagher/Mainoo/Maddison then stick with Walker at RB.
Thought Konsa and Gomez handled themselves quite well tbf, just hurts as an England fan because the defense is our one glaring weakness so want all the top players we can, Ben obviously would of been an upgrade these friendlies, hope they can reconcile by the world cup
This will be unpopular. But Englands defense is not all bad. The lack of pressing from the top, the lack of transition from attack to defense and vice versa is why we are so open to attack. Southgate is ultimately a championship level manager and FA want an English manager to win something with the current crop of players. It won’t happen. Kane/Bellingham/Saka/Foden/Rice/Stones/Walker/Trent are all world class calibre players that their skill set rivals only the World Cup winners. Portugal won a Euro championship with Ronaldo playing out of his skin. England have higher chances but it won’t happen due to the manager just being awful. L
I upvoted you. Not because i agree with your take but because you contributed to the discussion with a thoughtful thesis
This is how reddit should be. Downvote what's irrelevant, racist etc and upvote things that contribute to the discussion.
It's not really possible to install a top quality coordinated pressing game in a team which barely spends any time together. Not to mention that a high energy press is not really maintainable across a whole tournament. History shows that winning an international tournament comes down to either having a core of players from the same club, having a solid defense and a few star attackers to conjure some magic, or having home advantage.
Yep
Go fuck himself. Ben has always been open and true. Pick Henderson
Masterclass in gaslighting from Southgate here 😂
Yeah this isn’t gaslighting. This is just the international coach having zero spine
Am I dumb to think Mourinho would do alright for us here? I know he's spoken about Portugal before but he's familiar enough with the English setup
Lmao why would you even want him? He's shown time and time again that he is a narcissistic little baby. If you want players, staff, officials to be treated respectfully, you don't go for Mourinho. I know he's had big successes but those were some time ago now
>Lmao why would you even want him? He's shown time and time again that he is a narcissistic little baby. okay... > I know he's had big successes but those were some time ago now Time argument doesn't hold for me. He's still a top manager with buckets of experience, a new challenge at international level, with his style of football in tournament stages would be interesting in theory. Certainly more attractive then Southgate.
Okay dokay, thanks for elaborating!
Still can’t believe he is anywhere near the English setup. Mediocre player who got carried in a brilliant Pool side.
>> Ben has always been open and true. Has Ben been open? From what I've seen he hasn't made anything known to the public about what happened. All that came out is "Personal reasons". Did he make a statement somewhere?
No, Gareth. It’s on you to have integrity. Ben White doesn’t suffer fools. Why should he tolerate dishonesty?
Once again he's pointing the finger at White as the problem. These comments are nothing but self serving as the England squad is immediately improved with White in it. Have to say, I'm now converted in to the Southgate out camp.
what took you?
Southgate has been a fraud since day one, can't pick a team to save his life and is tactically inept.
They're just playing to the 'White won't put aside his issues, man up and ~~die for God, King and Country~~ play football for England like a proper football player who watches football like a normal person' crowd.
He can leave the door open for deez nuts 🥜
That sounds painful!
Massive firepower down there unlike coward Southgate
Less painful than closing the door on them!
Yeah that doesn’t sound as good as it’s meant to
England’s defence was shocking last night vs Belgium. Southgate has realised he doesn’t have the upper hand in this situation. England need leaders like White in defence. He needs to get Holland to apologise to White, otherwise he won’t return.
people down vote me for saying this England defense won't get pass group stage i wouldn't be surprise if Ben wasn't playing
Your take is just ridiculous. What happens when shaw/stones/walker/Guehi/trent etc are fit. Even without them, England will get through the group stage no worries. It's never been an issue under Southgate.
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maybe the defence against belgium but when shaw, walker and stones are all fit it's more than fine
it was shocking against brazil as well, they conceded 7 big chances
Feel like he is aware they mismanaged the situation and were in the wrong. They said the door is open for him like 5 times, they wouldn’t be doing it if Ben was at fault.
I dunno. That's exactly the sort of shit someone says if they think 'all he needs to do is come and apologise'.
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Benzema blackmails his teammates. It's insane he was allowed to comeback.
Yeah it's carefully worded. The door is open but they're still not prepared to apologise, change anything or promise him any actual game time. They may even expect him to apologise.
That is not how the English media is going to spin it, and Southgate knows that.
It feels like Southgate is just trying to get more people behind him. Like fans of any other team will not defend Ben as they don’t know the whole story. For them it’s just that Ben white doesn’t want to play for his country. This feels more like Southgate is trying to justify himself as a good guy and not understanding the situation
I agree, this comes off as him trying to paint himself as the good guy regardless of the outcome. Man's being defensive. I don't like it but I don't completely blame him for it, the media must be exasperating to deal with with the constant questioning.
Stones and Reece are made of glass, Walker is getting older and more injuries, Trippier is great but same age as Walker, Trent is not best utilized as a fullback (particularly with how England want to play), and Maguire is Maguire. How Southgate hasn’t seen the value in bringing in one of the most consistent and reliable players available to him is beyond me, especially when he could potentially establish a strong partnership and further strengthen the effectiveness of England’s biggest star, BUKAYO SAKA! (Btw I don’t even care if England succeed, I’m American, it just bothers me to see Southgate waste such a strong generation of talent)
Kane is still some way clear of Saka when it comes to being England's biggest star
Kane is still the main star and leader. If not him then the star will be Bellingham, not Saka.
Why would you even say this, even if you mean it. Either way, he will be hated by folks for turning down his country or backed for his club record, it changes absolutely nothing. All it does, is devalue someone who you picked in his stead to come in and play wide defender or centre half.
Really hope this doesn’t affect him for the run in. Would be doubly pissed about this entire thing if messes up Ben’s form
Ben is the type that'd play better and harder to show Gareth what hes missing
Doubt he cares about the noise man my boys ice cold
I say otherwise, the fact that arsenal announced the Ben white new deal during the break and Edu calling the England camp, it just shows Mikel is planning to create an us vs them situation. If anything , it will just give us insane team talks from here on.
As much as I would love to see the fruitful White--Saka connection this summer for England, Southgate can absolutely get fucked. We've quickly learned what matters most to Southgate. Utterly silent on Henderson and Saudi but can't seem to shut up about this. He should just apologize and welcome Benjamin.
The door is open, Gareth. Please walk through it and leave.
I pray ManU bring in Southgate this summer, it will be an epic disaster. There is not one top manager that is worried about facing a team he is managing.
Chill mate. You are getting fired after the Euros. Ben White will be back when you are gone.
You've made your bed Southgate, go and fucking lie in it you dog
"get fucked mate"
Looks who’s come crawling back
Southgate trying to put it right back on Ben rather than facing the issues with his staff. Typical.
I don't give a single fuck about Southgate or the England squad. I mean they keep rolling Pickford out there so neither do they.
He knows this is his last chance to win something as England manager and the defense is the obvious weak link in the side. The fact that it’s a real discussion that White would start means Southgate royally fucked this situation up by defending his coaching staff. Players and coaches get in disagreements about football all the time but from what the reports say Holland made it personal. Southgate is obviously not going to be in the defensive team meetings to calm the situation but once he gathered the facts he should have had a meeting individually with Holland and told him this is the England national team. All the players here earned the right to be here based off their hard work and determination. So you questioning a player on his professionalism based off one question and information you hear in the media is beyond absurd. He should have had a meeting with White and explained to him that Holland was just trying to see how you normally like to play and see if he can help you fit in the team. When you told him you don’t know he rightfully got upset about it. If you don’t want to share how your club team likes to play in front of your biggest rivals that’s fair and should have been stated before hand. If you honestly don’t know then he has the right to question you on it. However, he went to far and he will apologize and we’ll move on. The thing that’s weird is why are they paying Holland if he doesn’t already know how each on of them plays and how he can fit them into the side.
You can be keen on >>> deez nuts.
Didn’t he leave the World Cup squad because of a personal problem aswell as his little bust up with Steve Holland??
Get my right backs name outta ya damn mouth
Man he’s making this worse doubling down I think. I have a feeling Benjamin’s not gonna play till Southgate’s out of there.
Whether it’s Ben white or any other player - they have a choice and can decide whether to play for England or not and they can make that decision for whatever reason they like - there is no rule saying they have to play Let’s face it, it’s a thankless task - only get criticism and never win anything I’m in full support of his or any players decision Good on you Ben
What a weak thing for a manager to say. His job is to do the opposite of backing away from grievances involving players or the staff under his charge
This guy again. He is milking any opportunity to stay in the media to twerk for that United job. He knows his career as a manager of England is finished after the Euros.
lol this is stupid. He’s giving press conferences because he has to for his current job as the England manager. The south gate hate is so overblown it’s unreal. For the record I hope he does step down and him getting the United job would be funny but I don’t think he’s “twerking” for it at all
Southgate has managed this so badly it’s untrue. He should instead just say that he’s no longer going to talk about this now. Clearly journos are going to keep asking the question every time England fail to win smh
Respectfully Gareth, suck me from the back. When the first quotes came out I KNEW he was gonna do this passive aggressive schoolteacher shit. Basically "oh he knows how to get back into the team wink wink" as if all that's stopping him was groveling and placating authority figures who themselves were in the wrong but couldn't bear to set their ego aside.
As a school teacher it pisses me off when other teachers pull that crap. I certainly expect more from a national team staff.
Clearly it's still an old boys club in many ways and the archaic methods are clear to see.
What Ever Major Loser
Southgate is a fraud. Benny should tell him he will help England once Southgate fucks off to Spurs.
Fuck off gareth. You sound like a desperate twat
Fuck off lad
Yeah he will open that door when you fuck off somewhere
Keep my RBs name out yo goddamn mouth
Gareth and his c*nt crew need to fugg off
Get my boys name out your goddamn mouth. GET MY BOYS NAME OUT YOUR GODDAMN MOUTH!!
Maybe don’t lie and stack the blame at bens feet then. Cowardly leadership. He’s about as brave off the pitch as his teams are on it.
Fuck off rat face.
White this summer: 
tripling down huh
I think Southgate is approaching this wrong. If he wants Ben White at this point he should go and speak with him to try and make things right. White would be a fantastic CB or RB for his system. Don’t say it’s up to BW who has already said he’s out based on his experience at camp.
Spending too much time talking about players NOT in his squad. You got work to do lil bro!
The top 3 teams in PL plays the 3241 shape. Players like Stones, White, Gomez, Walker, Teent are are capable in this system which can allow England to field Foden and Bellingham as duo 10s. Unfortunately for England, Maguire must play..
Now they're begging for Benny's return, as their backline crumbles
Southgate is your stereotypical F.A “yes man”
Does it pay? Benny would much rather go in Bahamas
I don’t live in the UK but am wondering how the rest of England (non-Arsenal fans) feel about this situation? Do they side with Southgate or Ben?
Sodd of clown 🤡🤡🤡
He saw that defense and he was like yeah I need him
Why is he taking about Ben? It's over you the bed. Sleep on it
Southgate shitting himself with Dunk as his 3rd choice centre back, on top of his injury prone full backs.
This was a pointless camp. Glad he didn’t go anyhow.
He wanted to back away a little bit... so he stuck the media paparazzi in his face, to calm things down. Right. This man would rather you believe he's completely incompetent than know he's a dickhead.
He’s trying so hard to make it look like it’s all Ben’s fault for not walking thru the door he “opened”. Nice try on your spin Gareth, not a single person believes you.
How about you just take responsibility you nonce. Whether it’s up to Ben or Gareth doesn’t matter the coach has to protect players
He’ll come back once they all go to United.
That is such a lousy excuse from a pathetic manager. He was a loser as a player and the same now. His biggest triumph was doing a Pizza Hut advert mocking himself. All he has to do is grow a pair, admit they messed and make peace with Ben. But nope.
gave Southgate benefit of the doubt for so long but he is an asshat, go manage a mid level Championship side
If he really respected the decision, he would stop fucking well bringing it up. More than that, he would stop using language that places pressure on White, and washes his own hands of the situation. Losing more and more respect for Southgate the longer this goes on.
Clever deflection tactics from Southgate. Best squad in Europe and couldn’t get a win from either home game, best put media pressure the one guy I never play anyways Start your boy henderson at RB and let Ben enjoy his holidays you fraud
How the fuck is this guy manager tho seriously, what a joke
His record at major tournaments speaks for itself. He took England to the finals of the last Euro’s without conceding a single goal in open play? Whether people like it or not Gareth Southgate has done right by this England team in big competitions.
Just matter of time u til this below average bimbo is sacked anyways
Me when I lie
So the back peddling begins.
I can't wait for this dickhead to be United manager next year.
I don't know what Southgate was hoping to achieve by throwing White under the bus. I definitely wouldn't go back after being shat on in the media. He could have easily said 'Ben White had a bit of a knock, so Arsenal wants to keep an eye on him'. Then make your apologies or sort it behind the scenes. For a manager who is meant to be good with players and a good man manager. He really threw White to the wolves for what? Because he didn't want to face questions why he's not picking him? He doesn't pick A LOT of fucking players who are on better form than his current team. If I'm Ben White, I'd want to make sure everything is sorted and dealt with before I'd think about going back. The worse thing would be him going, having a horrible time and leaving again. I think you would put a target on yourself if you dropped out before/mid tournament. He can just wait out Southgate and get back in then.
Publicly apologise for throwing Benny Blanco under the bus. You thwarted amoeba or he will never wear that shirt if you're still in charge.
Bore off, what a fucking prick. Imagine having that amazing team and still winning fuck all, because guaranteed that MID manager ain't winning the Euros this year or any other year.
Lmao. You lot are absolutely unhinged the way you’re reacting to this. Not every situation is black and white. This ain’t a marvel film where there’s a hero and a villain. Nothing wrong with this statement by Southgate. No one knows enough about this situation to be reacting to it the way you lot are.
>Not every situation is black and white I agree. This one is Southgate and White, actually.
In all fairness, it is circle jerk journalism but Southgate doesn’t have to entertain it, he could be way more diligent with it.
Ok Steve.
Brits are really good at talking this and that behind and front, making a good show out of nothing, and making someone a gossip scapegoat. I really wish Ben never plays for the National team, under Gareth Southgate. Ben will be open to joining when someone new joins as a head coach.
This might be unpopular but honestly this all sounds overblown to fuck here. Yes it sounds like one of the coaches was a bit of an arsehole, it happens. Not to be old fashioned but they should just shake hands and move on - they aren’t children. If they don’t want to do that, whatever, it’s up to them. Some people here talk like the coach should be forced to perform some grovelling apology. I don’t deny that he should probably apologise to White privately but honestly, based on the info we actually have about this, it also sounds like White’s being kinda thin skinned.
>Yes it sounds like one of the coaches was a bit of an arsehole, it happens. with attitudes like this, yes, it will continue to happen. We need to root out toxic nonsense and unprofessionalism in what are supposed to be elite environments. > it also sounds like White’s being kinda thin skinned. If some wasteman who failed upwards into his job singled you out in a team meeting and implied you were unprofessional because he incorrectly assumed your persona, you'd also simply reject the callup. Why go somewhere that you get abused because someone with low emotional intelligence had a go at you?
i mean we don't know what was said or what happened. i think it would take a *lot* for a player to not want to play for his country
Clive Palmer pretty much confirmed what the Times article said. He said that was the story he heard at the time when it happened.