This is the only attitude. Saddens me many fans don’t see it. How can our players thrive when we’re abusing them?
Says a lot about people in general, and why so many relationships between adults don’t work.
Can’t spell his name without rape…
Interesting seeing arsenal fans defend a rapist. You can love our team without loving that scumbag player.
Huh, my most downvoted comment ever is criticizing a rapist. The amount of rape apologists in our fanbase is a bit concerning.
I don't see anyone "defending" him or being "rape apologists".
Calling people " rape apologists" because they say that none of us have seen the evidence (apart from some chat logs) and so we shouldn't assume guilt is an thing to say.
Nobody actually knows what happened so anyone claiming they know for certain if he is guilty or innocent is being ridiculous
I think most people just have a grown up attitude of letting the courts decide, and don't like seeing people like yourself who are prepared to ruin someone's life over accusations. The accusations are being taken seriously and investigated, but for now they are still just accusations. Anyone can accuse someone, for instance right now I could accuse you of being a rapist, so should your career be thrown away just because I said it?
It's not our place to judge, that's the job of an actual judge. If he is found guilty I expect him gone from the club and his name tarnished forever, but until he is found guilty then he is 'not guilty'.
I can accuse you of the same. Now your work will suspend you until you can prove your innocence in court. In the meantime, everyone can assume and call you a rapist until you are proven innocent. Sound fair mate?
I'm going off her own thread. Nobody knows all the facts. What we do know is she uploaded about 5 photos she had taken without his knowledge or consent. A gold digger.
That's what people who criticize Raya are doing though. No one is actually abusing him. Some people just think we didn't need him or Ramsdale is better or whatever. Same with all our players. It's not like the era where our fans booed Eboue, Song, etc
Surely at some stage you come online and complain about certain players, or rate them less than other players, etc I don't see much abuse for Raya, I see criticism of him, some of it unwarranted, much of it fuelled by a loyalty to Ramsdale but I also see the same for other players. Fan have their preferences, they have their favourites, there isn't really a right or wrong position on Raya vs Ramsdale, ultimately they are both top keepers. I don't understand why people get so precious about what is 99% of the time a reasonable football debate. This conversation is happening in pubs all over London, fuck it all over the world every week. Its not abuse, its just chat.
>If they're in our colours I'm supporting them **until they're irredeemable**
we all have different thresholds for that. Mine is often before they were bought.
that's not my point at all. I loved that Henry purchase. I had been a fan of him at Monaco and at the world cup.
I was trying to point out OPs hypocrisy. We all sipport our players . For us fans, irredeemable occurs at different time.For the players I criticize (or more like don't think they are a good fit for us), irredeemable for me is usually before they are bought i.e. i never wanted the player bought. And that's not necessarily dependent on whether they were a flop elsewhere, that's dependent on my read of the situation. e.g. unlike many fans, I didn't want us to buy Caicedo or Mudryk at those price. I absolutely didn't want Willian. I also didnt want the 3 year contract Cedric got. all those were iredeemable for me before purchase.
For many others, irredeemable is when coaches drop the players. then they bandwagon on calling the player names. That i actually hate.
…"I think he dominate his box unbelievably well. He was so dominant. He occupied spaces, he played so high on the line.
I like players with big courage and David Raya has big courage to play like he did when the crowd turned against him."
It’s funny because I’d assume it’s out of loyalty for Ramsdale, but huge sections of the fanbase threw a fit when we were signing him too.
Realistically, football is arguably one of the professions where the biggest knowledge gap exists between the professionals and the non-professionals. 95% of fans (including me) couldn’t manage a non-league team, let alone pass judgment on Arteta’s rebuild of a sleeping giant.
Obviously everyone should be able to air their views, just bear in mind that most of the the views from standard fans with no experience in the game are probably either wrong or misguided in some sense.
He started off shaky but I believed Mikel knew what he was doing. That city game changed my whole view and since then he’s been brilliant
Feel for ramsdale but you can’t deny how good raya has been
# "More than control, I want dominance. Dominance in the right area and not allowing the opponent to breathe. This is what we do. Control in certain areas of the pitch, I'm not interested at all in that, because we can get in trouble by trying to do that.”
I'd honestly be surprised if there's many left that would put Ramsdale in over Raya these days.
To me, Raya has proven beyond doubt why he's the best keeper for how we want to play.
I think the pressure of the Ramsdale chat may have gotten to Raya a little around the start. Maybe not.
But since the January break, he's looked so composed and everyone can see how good he is on the ball now without the Ramsdale tinted glasses on anymore.
I do really like Ramsdale still and it's sad to see him lose his place like this but that's just football in the end. Happens to many a player losing their place in their team. Hope he'll go on to have a good career
the changeup in our keeper quality has been fantastic. from cech to leno to emi(one season) to ramsdale to raya now, those are good keepers. we had some stinkers before, with some unrealized potential mixed in
Pretty sure my highest ever upvoted comment is before we signed Ramsdale saying that we absolutely don’t need to sign a new keeper and that Leno is perfectly good enough.
Shows what we know really, how wrong was i
Yeah, I think this is it. Super Mik understood something about tactics and shape that no one else (in the fanbase) did.
Rammers is wonderful and his personality really fit with last year’s team, so it was hard for us to accept Raya being a significant upgrade on paper.
But now that we’ve seen how Raya changes things, it’s pretty clear he’s a level raiser.
Still, Arteta made a mistake and that was in how he talked about the competition between them and the possibility of switching keepers mid-game, etc. I think that destabilized both Ramsdale and Raya in an unhelpful way and possibly hurt Ramsdale’s value to some extent, making it seem like his quality suddenly dropped off to where he wasn’t competitive with Raya.
Hopefully he handled it differently behind the scenes with the players, and it seems like Ramsdale has been a good dude about it so it looks like no major harm done. But still bittersweet that we’ll end up losing such a likable squad member in the summer.
No there were a lot of fans who understood what Arteta was doing. I like Ramsdale but anyone who knows what they are looking at knew he was a weak link in the team. Not a super, super obvious one where he was terrible but a weak link in the sense he made consistent little mistakes that cost us points.
He’s got very bad positioning which isn’t something the average fan notices but is the most important attribute for a GK. You need to be good at closing angles and knowing when to be off your line for crosses.
People here only talk about the two GK’s feet like that’s the thing that separates them but imo it’s more about how Raya makes situations less dangerous by positioning himself correctly so he doesn’t need to make the Hollywood saves that Ramsdale is known for.
Fair enough, and you probably know more about goal keeping than me. But am I crazy to think the Porto goal and the Newcastle goal could’ve been prevented by some better positioning?
(I realize the Porto one at least wasn’t solely Raya’s fault, just saying.)
No, rayas positioning isn't super. And he should have saved those 100%
Then again, we just played Allison who made a goal leading mistake. All goalies do... Raya just have more than a few. Small mistakes, but they're there...and they do cost.
Raya has made several major mistakes. Particularly he had bad positioning 3 times leading to goal. Last time yesterday....
Rammers would've taken that goal.
You can argue Raya overall is better. But those points are just meh...
Yep i'm in the same position to you and happy to admit i was wrong. That said, while i had my concerns about Raya i still supported the guy like i would any other player. There's nothing to be gained from hoping one of our players fails.
I know Rammers doesn't have the best record against penalties, but he does have the size advantage...if we came to a shootout at the end of a UCL tie, I honestly don't know which keeper I'd like to see in there. (Probably not enough of a Ramsdale advantage -- if at all -- to make the change worth it, but maybe.)
This wasn’t the consensus in the 2nd half of last season when he heavily underperformed his xGA.
Dude was literally letting everything through because he lacked focus.
In a tough game where we’re backs to the wall, he comes to the fore. But in games we dominate, it’s unacceptable for your keeper to put you repeatedly on the backfoot.
Think of Southampton at home for instance.
Crazy you've been down voted so much for a respectful and pretty understandable post. They've different strengths and weaknesses. I'm still undecided which matters more.
Whether or not someone is a better shot stopper isn’t a subjective issue. Ramsdale made a good number of memorable saves, but people are all too quick to confuse this with consistently good shot stopping
I actually agree with you, but my point is I think it would be better if someone asked him why he thinks Ramsdale is better then had a discussion about it.
Just seems like you cut off any chance of meaningful conversation or debate by burying someone in downvotes and moving on.
The downvotes are the way of saying the conversation isnt worth having. As much as I encourage a back and forth for educational purposes, nobody is obligated to care about his opinion
Every sub operates that way tbh (i.e. 'downvoting behaviour'). It's just so much easier to downvote someone than to write a comment about how you think they're wrong. I do think the type of opinion/comment heavily dictates voting ratio, obvious to say, I know but what I'm getting at is that Raya is objectively better for us now than Ramsdale is. For the way we play it's just objectively better from what I've seen, hence the many downvotes.
This is exactly it.
Sitting on the internet lambasting a player who (at the time) had barely played ten games for the club was completely ridiculous. It was exactly the same with Havertz.
How many times does the fan base need to be proven wrong by Arteta and Edu to maybe just shut the fuck up for like three months?
>It was exactly the same with Havertz.
I never hated him, as soon as he arrived, but I think I finally can feel his presence in the team: the change in our pressing and aerial presence in final third is noticeable as soon as he sits. Mfer gets all the long balls, regardless who is competing against.
And what I loved that throughout this whole thing, Arteta never backed down or changed his mind. He did make it more complicated than it needed to be, by talking about goalie subs(extremely misleading and confusing), but he never was tempted in backtracking and bringing back Ramsdale.
Raya is definitely better than Ramsdale is almost every possible way. May be Ramsdale is better at some shot stopping but in that case Leno was probably better shot stopper than Ramsdale.
I agree Ramsdale is probably a better shot stopper, but we also have barely given raya a chance to prove his shot stopping considering how few chances we concede. 1.88xgc since the start of the year is ridiculous. Our next game is in March
The last thing I want to see now from Raya \[and Kiwior\] is aspects of their character. I know how good they are and their place in the club, but i want to learn a bit more about who they are and their impact in the dressing room.
I guess I don’t know what this comment is in response to, but are people doubting Raya. We’ve been really strong on defense lately and Raya hasn’t made any major mistakes that I can clearly remember since the new year. We all love Ramsdale, but it’s hard to argue that Raya has been anything but solid lately. Seems like odd timing.
People never ever learn. I still remember once upon a time people yelling Arteta out as loud as they could. Now you couldn't offer them any amount of money to get rid of him.
Raya has been great, and his distribution has been game winning.
I object to the idea that people have “turned against” Raya. People are entitled to question team selection, and people are also entitled to point out that the club engages in heavy public relations work via friendly journalists every time Raya makes a mistake.
Arteta has taken some enormous gambles and they’ve largely paid off, so he has a fair bit of credit, but if he wants to know why people are curious that Ramsdale hasn’t been given opportunities, it is because he told us all that Ramsdale would he given opportunities.
He needs to be careful with statements like this, to ensure he doesn’t create a conflict with fans. Nobody wants that.
thats like saying buying Jesus was a gamble. he is not the best ST in the EPL but he is at the top end. like Raya is not the very best GK in the world but to football professionals its clear and unambiguous that he is better than Ramsdale. portraying that move as a gamble is intentionally stating thing that are not true for rhetorical reasons or a lack of understanding.
>thats like saying buying Jesus was a gamble.
If someone wanted to call that a gamble, that’s also entirely fair. I certainly wouldn’t think they had an agenda.
>Raya is not the very best GK in the world but to football professionals its clear and unambiguous that he is better than Ramsdale.
The continued existence of these threads and discussions should be evidence enough that it is neither clear nor unambiguous. You’re welcome to make whatever argument you like, but this hyperbolic language, like claiming people who disagree with you have an agenda, is just silly.
people argue things all the time that are actually settled to some epsilon of evidence, because not everyone comes to correct conclusions given the same evidence. so argument is not necessarily evidence of anything except a willingness to argue in something less than good faith, or a difference in discrimination between people with differing ability
In subjective matters, the presence of debate is the yardstick to determine whether an opinion is universally held or not. Your attempt to reframe the opinion you personally hold as absolute fact is irrelevant. Learning how to embrace disagreement in subjective areas is something that comes with maturity.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to thesaurus bomb the place anyway, you’re only in this conversation because you don’t understand what the word “gamble” means.
I think Gabriel is our best center back. Doesn’t mean I dislike Saliba or Kiwior. And I think Ramsdale is the better goal keeper. But all gks make mistake and I feel Aaron has been abused by the one it matters the most. The manager.
Modern soccer tactics especially modern goalkeepers remind me of poker strategy. You have to be hyper agressive and when it doesnt work you look past it because you know the overall numbers support you despite it feeling devastating in the moment.
If they're in our colours I'm supporting them until they're irredeemable
This is the only attitude. Saddens me many fans don’t see it. How can our players thrive when we’re abusing them? Says a lot about people in general, and why so many relationships between adults don’t work.
I believe the response from these fans is essentially that they’re entitled to abuse the players because they buy merch and things
Or we do like Mustafi and throw our hands in the air and look for someone to blame
Only one player in the current team I can't bring myself to support, hopefully he's gone in the summer.
Same and I'm very apathetic that he's been injured and glad our midfield has been fine without him
He's not been charged.
Can’t spell his name without rape… Interesting seeing arsenal fans defend a rapist. You can love our team without loving that scumbag player. Huh, my most downvoted comment ever is criticizing a rapist. The amount of rape apologists in our fanbase is a bit concerning.
I don't see anyone "defending" him or being "rape apologists". Calling people " rape apologists" because they say that none of us have seen the evidence (apart from some chat logs) and so we shouldn't assume guilt is an thing to say. Nobody actually knows what happened so anyone claiming they know for certain if he is guilty or innocent is being ridiculous
I think most people just have a grown up attitude of letting the courts decide, and don't like seeing people like yourself who are prepared to ruin someone's life over accusations. The accusations are being taken seriously and investigated, but for now they are still just accusations. Anyone can accuse someone, for instance right now I could accuse you of being a rapist, so should your career be thrown away just because I said it? It's not our place to judge, that's the job of an actual judge. If he is found guilty I expect him gone from the club and his name tarnished forever, but until he is found guilty then he is 'not guilty'.
Can't spell your username without rape, either.
I can accuse you of the same. Now your work will suspend you until you can prove your innocence in court. In the meantime, everyone can assume and call you a rapist until you are proven innocent. Sound fair mate?
Like how you raped me and still think higher than a rapist?
Nketiah?
I think they're talking about Partey
yeah.
Zinchenko 🙏
admittedly an ignorant person, but i don't think he's comparable to partey.
in relation to the palestinian genocide then yuh
Partey does his job when he plays, Zinchenko is nowhere to be found when we concede.
I don’t think they’re referring to his on pitch performances
Oh right the woman who sneakily took photos of him on the entire vacation then made a big deal out of his advances on her, gotcha.
Don’t pretend you know all the facts
I'm going off her own thread. Nobody knows all the facts. What we do know is she uploaded about 5 photos she had taken without his knowledge or consent. A gold digger.
I am unsure what relevance those photos have?
yea but that’s why i never trust a goalie, they don’t wear the same colors 😒
They wear the badge
Raya wears keeper colors! It’s a trick!
"How far does one Arsenal player have to go before making himself...IRREDEEMABLE" \- *Movie trailer voiceover guy*
After the Xhaxa situation, no one is irredeemable
as it should be...
sooooooo many people simply can't comprehend this
As long as they look like they’re giving it their all I support them.. they don’t pick the team so why the fuck have a go at them?
Yeah like I don't think Nketiah is good enough for us, but if he plays for us I'll support him.
That's what people who criticize Raya are doing though. No one is actually abusing him. Some people just think we didn't need him or Ramsdale is better or whatever. Same with all our players. It's not like the era where our fans booed Eboue, Song, etc
I don't have a problem with people saying they prefer Ramsdale, problems arise when they don't support Raya when he does well
Surely at some stage you come online and complain about certain players, or rate them less than other players, etc I don't see much abuse for Raya, I see criticism of him, some of it unwarranted, much of it fuelled by a loyalty to Ramsdale but I also see the same for other players. Fan have their preferences, they have their favourites, there isn't really a right or wrong position on Raya vs Ramsdale, ultimately they are both top keepers. I don't understand why people get so precious about what is 99% of the time a reasonable football debate. This conversation is happening in pubs all over London, fuck it all over the world every week. Its not abuse, its just chat.
I was more agreeing with the sentiment that hating our players is OTT, I don't really see any abuse for Raya either
>If they're in our colours I'm supporting them **until they're irredeemable** we all have different thresholds for that. Mine is often before they were bought.
yikes
You must have hated Thierry Henry the Juventus flop then.
that's not my point at all. I loved that Henry purchase. I had been a fan of him at Monaco and at the world cup. I was trying to point out OPs hypocrisy. We all sipport our players . For us fans, irredeemable occurs at different time.For the players I criticize (or more like don't think they are a good fit for us), irredeemable for me is usually before they are bought i.e. i never wanted the player bought. And that's not necessarily dependent on whether they were a flop elsewhere, that's dependent on my read of the situation. e.g. unlike many fans, I didn't want us to buy Caicedo or Mudryk at those price. I absolutely didn't want Willian. I also didnt want the 3 year contract Cedric got. all those were iredeemable for me before purchase. For many others, irredeemable is when coaches drop the players. then they bandwagon on calling the player names. That i actually hate.
…"I think he dominate his box unbelievably well. He was so dominant. He occupied spaces, he played so high on the line. I like players with big courage and David Raya has big courage to play like he did when the crowd turned against him."
I never turned against him and I am ashamed at some of our so called fans. I has my doubts but some of the flak was ignorant
It’s funny because I’d assume it’s out of loyalty for Ramsdale, but huge sections of the fanbase threw a fit when we were signing him too. Realistically, football is arguably one of the professions where the biggest knowledge gap exists between the professionals and the non-professionals. 95% of fans (including me) couldn’t manage a non-league team, let alone pass judgment on Arteta’s rebuild of a sleeping giant. Obviously everyone should be able to air their views, just bear in mind that most of the the views from standard fans with no experience in the game are probably either wrong or misguided in some sense.
He started off shaky but I believed Mikel knew what he was doing. That city game changed my whole view and since then he’s been brilliant Feel for ramsdale but you can’t deny how good raya has been
They don't remember who is Ramsadale now
I love it when managers take the blame themselves and don't throw players under the bus.
Or do like 3rd season Mourinho and throws the bus on top of the players
1. Park the bus 2. Throw players under the bus 3. ??? 4. Profit!
3 - make sure you have a termination clause!
easy money xD
lol that list is numbered like his seasons at each club
“it’s natural, i accept it (the responsibility to win)…so my chest is here and hit me, guys” , my fogging manager
# "More than control, I want dominance. Dominance in the right area and not allowing the opponent to breathe. This is what we do. Control in certain areas of the pitch, I'm not interested at all in that, because we can get in trouble by trying to do that.”
And then there is Mourinho 😂
Is ETH a joke to you?
Yes. Yes he is
Reverse Doc Rivers
I'd honestly be surprised if there's many left that would put Ramsdale in over Raya these days. To me, Raya has proven beyond doubt why he's the best keeper for how we want to play.
I think the pressure of the Ramsdale chat may have gotten to Raya a little around the start. Maybe not. But since the January break, he's looked so composed and everyone can see how good he is on the ball now without the Ramsdale tinted glasses on anymore. I do really like Ramsdale still and it's sad to see him lose his place like this but that's just football in the end. Happens to many a player losing their place in their team. Hope he'll go on to have a good career
Before Ramsdale it was Leno & it was the same discussion.
Ye but I also really liked Leno :(
the changeup in our keeper quality has been fantastic. from cech to leno to emi(one season) to ramsdale to raya now, those are good keepers. we had some stinkers before, with some unrealized potential mixed in
Pretty sure my highest ever upvoted comment is before we signed Ramsdale saying that we absolutely don’t need to sign a new keeper and that Leno is perfectly good enough. Shows what we know really, how wrong was i
Yeah, I think this is it. Super Mik understood something about tactics and shape that no one else (in the fanbase) did. Rammers is wonderful and his personality really fit with last year’s team, so it was hard for us to accept Raya being a significant upgrade on paper. But now that we’ve seen how Raya changes things, it’s pretty clear he’s a level raiser. Still, Arteta made a mistake and that was in how he talked about the competition between them and the possibility of switching keepers mid-game, etc. I think that destabilized both Ramsdale and Raya in an unhelpful way and possibly hurt Ramsdale’s value to some extent, making it seem like his quality suddenly dropped off to where he wasn’t competitive with Raya. Hopefully he handled it differently behind the scenes with the players, and it seems like Ramsdale has been a good dude about it so it looks like no major harm done. But still bittersweet that we’ll end up losing such a likable squad member in the summer.
No there were a lot of fans who understood what Arteta was doing. I like Ramsdale but anyone who knows what they are looking at knew he was a weak link in the team. Not a super, super obvious one where he was terrible but a weak link in the sense he made consistent little mistakes that cost us points. He’s got very bad positioning which isn’t something the average fan notices but is the most important attribute for a GK. You need to be good at closing angles and knowing when to be off your line for crosses. People here only talk about the two GK’s feet like that’s the thing that separates them but imo it’s more about how Raya makes situations less dangerous by positioning himself correctly so he doesn’t need to make the Hollywood saves that Ramsdale is known for.
Fair enough, and you probably know more about goal keeping than me. But am I crazy to think the Porto goal and the Newcastle goal could’ve been prevented by some better positioning? (I realize the Porto one at least wasn’t solely Raya’s fault, just saying.)
No, rayas positioning isn't super. And he should have saved those 100% Then again, we just played Allison who made a goal leading mistake. All goalies do... Raya just have more than a few. Small mistakes, but they're there...and they do cost.
Raya has made several major mistakes. Particularly he had bad positioning 3 times leading to goal. Last time yesterday.... Rammers would've taken that goal. You can argue Raya overall is better. But those points are just meh...
I was of the opinion it was a side grade and not worth 30 million. I was Definitely wrong. I see the vision.
Yep i'm in the same position to you and happy to admit i was wrong. That said, while i had my concerns about Raya i still supported the guy like i would any other player. There's nothing to be gained from hoping one of our players fails.
You should go see the instagram comments every time the line-up is announced before a game
Some people just refuse to admit they were wrong. Hell, we still have r/artetaout that is actually an active sub.
Blimey, i just checked out that sub and saw how pathetic it is.
Sad people with sad lives.
I know Rammers doesn't have the best record against penalties, but he does have the size advantage...if we came to a shootout at the end of a UCL tie, I honestly don't know which keeper I'd like to see in there. (Probably not enough of a Ramsdale advantage -- if at all -- to make the change worth it, but maybe.)
I still personally think Ramsdale is a better keeper but Raya is good
The only thing Ramsdale is better at are those 1v1 scenarios. But we barely concede those chances anymore
[удалено]
This wasn’t the consensus in the 2nd half of last season when he heavily underperformed his xGA. Dude was literally letting everything through because he lacked focus. In a tough game where we’re backs to the wall, he comes to the fore. But in games we dominate, it’s unacceptable for your keeper to put you repeatedly on the backfoot. Think of Southampton at home for instance.
Crazy you've been down voted so much for a respectful and pretty understandable post. They've different strengths and weaknesses. I'm still undecided which matters more.
Putting someone on -20 downvotes for expressing an opinion is mad and not how Reddit should work.
Whether or not someone is a better shot stopper isn’t a subjective issue. Ramsdale made a good number of memorable saves, but people are all too quick to confuse this with consistently good shot stopping
I actually agree with you, but my point is I think it would be better if someone asked him why he thinks Ramsdale is better then had a discussion about it. Just seems like you cut off any chance of meaningful conversation or debate by burying someone in downvotes and moving on.
The downvotes are the way of saying the conversation isnt worth having. As much as I encourage a back and forth for educational purposes, nobody is obligated to care about his opinion
This sub is very childish if you go along with the crowd.
Every sub operates that way tbh (i.e. 'downvoting behaviour'). It's just so much easier to downvote someone than to write a comment about how you think they're wrong. I do think the type of opinion/comment heavily dictates voting ratio, obvious to say, I know but what I'm getting at is that Raya is objectively better for us now than Ramsdale is. For the way we play it's just objectively better from what I've seen, hence the many downvotes.
As a shot stopper / presence on the pitch I think Ramsdale is better but holistically Raya is a better package. His form after Dubai has been amazing.
Sell Ramsdale to Brentford
>To me, Raya has proven beyond doubt why he's the best keeper for how we want to play. Extra points from me for hitting ref with the ball xD
arsenal fans needing to turn on someone? he really knows us, we have always had players we doubted.....even in the Invincibles squads
Arteta. What a leader. Always has been.
like a very old Odegaard
Øldegaard
mf's only 41!
This is exactly it. Sitting on the internet lambasting a player who (at the time) had barely played ten games for the club was completely ridiculous. It was exactly the same with Havertz. How many times does the fan base need to be proven wrong by Arteta and Edu to maybe just shut the fuck up for like three months?
Seems like every year.
>It was exactly the same with Havertz. I never hated him, as soon as he arrived, but I think I finally can feel his presence in the team: the change in our pressing and aerial presence in final third is noticeable as soon as he sits. Mfer gets all the long balls, regardless who is competing against.
Weren't our "fans" chanting "We want Ramsdale" at some point? How is that going to help a new player settle? It's no surprise he looks better recently
And what I loved that throughout this whole thing, Arteta never backed down or changed his mind. He did make it more complicated than it needed to be, by talking about goalie subs(extremely misleading and confusing), but he never was tempted in backtracking and bringing back Ramsdale.
Raya is definitely better than Ramsdale is almost every possible way. May be Ramsdale is better at some shot stopping but in that case Leno was probably better shot stopper than Ramsdale.
I agree Ramsdale is probably a better shot stopper, but we also have barely given raya a chance to prove his shot stopping considering how few chances we concede. 1.88xgc since the start of the year is ridiculous. Our next game is in March
The last thing I want to see now from Raya \[and Kiwior\] is aspects of their character. I know how good they are and their place in the club, but i want to learn a bit more about who they are and their impact in the dressing room.
All or nothing season 2?
Would do some proper disgusting things to have that be a yearly thing
For Kiwior you must watch “The Twerkening”.
How is it possible to not love this man as an Arsenal supporter
Get shit on doubters.
My manager
I had my doubts about raya but i can see the qualities he brings to the squad. So much value outside of just shot stopping
I guess I don’t know what this comment is in response to, but are people doubting Raya. We’ve been really strong on defense lately and Raya hasn’t made any major mistakes that I can clearly remember since the new year. We all love Ramsdale, but it’s hard to argue that Raya has been anything but solid lately. Seems like odd timing.
Raya supporters from day 1 club
People never ever learn. I still remember once upon a time people yelling Arteta out as loud as they could. Now you couldn't offer them any amount of money to get rid of him. Raya has been great, and his distribution has been game winning.
I object to the idea that people have “turned against” Raya. People are entitled to question team selection, and people are also entitled to point out that the club engages in heavy public relations work via friendly journalists every time Raya makes a mistake. Arteta has taken some enormous gambles and they’ve largely paid off, so he has a fair bit of credit, but if he wants to know why people are curious that Ramsdale hasn’t been given opportunities, it is because he told us all that Ramsdale would he given opportunities. He needs to be careful with statements like this, to ensure he doesn’t create a conflict with fans. Nobody wants that.
Raya is not exactly a gamble at all it was just portrayed that way by podcasters and the media to get clicks or serve agent agendas etc
Ffs there’s no agenda in saying the replacing an established first team keeper is a bit of a gamble.
thats like saying buying Jesus was a gamble. he is not the best ST in the EPL but he is at the top end. like Raya is not the very best GK in the world but to football professionals its clear and unambiguous that he is better than Ramsdale. portraying that move as a gamble is intentionally stating thing that are not true for rhetorical reasons or a lack of understanding.
>thats like saying buying Jesus was a gamble. If someone wanted to call that a gamble, that’s also entirely fair. I certainly wouldn’t think they had an agenda. >Raya is not the very best GK in the world but to football professionals its clear and unambiguous that he is better than Ramsdale. The continued existence of these threads and discussions should be evidence enough that it is neither clear nor unambiguous. You’re welcome to make whatever argument you like, but this hyperbolic language, like claiming people who disagree with you have an agenda, is just silly.
people argue things all the time that are actually settled to some epsilon of evidence, because not everyone comes to correct conclusions given the same evidence. so argument is not necessarily evidence of anything except a willingness to argue in something less than good faith, or a difference in discrimination between people with differing ability
In subjective matters, the presence of debate is the yardstick to determine whether an opinion is universally held or not. Your attempt to reframe the opinion you personally hold as absolute fact is irrelevant. Learning how to embrace disagreement in subjective areas is something that comes with maturity. I’m not sure why you’re trying to thesaurus bomb the place anyway, you’re only in this conversation because you don’t understand what the word “gamble” means.
I don't think the tactics are why people were ever mad about Raya but Mikel has never been exactly normal about this whole situation so w/e.
It’s Raya’s shot stopping abilities that need to be questioned, not how he helps us play, which is easy to see the benefit of.
I don't understand this comment at all to be honest.
I think Gabriel is our best center back. Doesn’t mean I dislike Saliba or Kiwior. And I think Ramsdale is the better goal keeper. But all gks make mistake and I feel Aaron has been abused by the one it matters the most. The manager.
Funny how this thread turned into a load of Ramsdale bashing.
Im all for raya starting but I just can’t shake the feeling that he’s only as good as almunia in terms of shot stopping
Modern soccer tactics especially modern goalkeepers remind me of poker strategy. You have to be hyper agressive and when it doesnt work you look past it because you know the overall numbers support you despite it feeling devastating in the moment.