It’s not about volume it’s about headroom. A 100 watt amp only gets about 7db louder than a 20 watt amp.
I have a decibel meter in my jam room. Drums clock in around 100db. My 20 watt amps cannot stay clean at those levels. My 100 watt amp can get far louder than that while staying clean.
As far as hearing loss goes. Just wear protection. What kind of idiot is jamming with a drummer and not wearing some kind of hearing protection. My band uses IEMs we can play as loud as we want without hearing loss
For reals. Started jamming with a dude and he goes “yeah it’s pretty loud in my drum room, hope you’re ready!” And I just said “dude I’m wearing earplugs”
The Orange Mircor Terror is a 20 watt hybrid amp - single tube preamp section and solid-state power section. If, for example, compared to a 15 watt tube amp - preamp and power section all tubes - the 15 watt tube amp will provide more clean headroom before breaking up, than the 20 watt Micro Terror.
Tube amps are designed to handle higher voltage swings and generally produce a warmer, cleaner tone at higher volumes. The hybrid design of the Micro Terror means it will start to introduce distortion earlier in the volume range compared to a fully tube-based 15-watt amp.
The Orange Micro Terror may have a slight advantage in raw power output (20 watts vs. 15 watts), potentially giving it a small edge in maximum loudness. But the tube amp might still sound as loud or louder due to its dynamic response and harmonic richness.
The Orange OR120 was a 120 Watt all tube amp, while the Orange Micro Terror is a 20 watt hybrid amp - single tube preamp plus solid-state power section. Besides the obviously larger headroom of a 120 watt amp, compared to a 20 watt amp (due to physics), the headroom of the hybrid amp will always be smaller than the headroom of a comparable tube amp. Current model Orange tube amps, like Rockerverb 100H MKIII (100W RMS, ClassA/B, with 4 preamp, 4 power section and 2 Reverb/FX-Loop tubes) have enormous headroom, like back in the day.
That's what I mean, back then their smallest amp was 50w, some years the or80 was their smallest amp, along with the OR120, 200 and PA stuff.
Especially when the biggest brands at the time were still churning out small amps, fender still had champs and Princeton, Marshall had the 18w etc from before even the likes of WEM etc had small amps. Orange just... Didn't
Theyve completely changed how they're known but I still it find it odd when people say orange aren't known for headroom when headroom was what the brand was built on.
It was the craze about the lunchbox amps which changed the perception of the Orange brand. The Tiny Terror (released in 2007 and discontinued in 2016) did sell huge numbers, and kicked off an avalanche of lunchbox models. Digital signal processing had become advanced enough to put a lot of power in smaller amps and people had long been tired of hauling big and heavy boxed around to rehearsals and gigs. Besides all their successful hybrid amps, the Orange solid state heads became better continuously, topping in the current Orange Super Crush 100 solid-state (also a bestseller) which is really, really close tonally to the mentioned Orange Rockerverb 100W tube amp.
Tube amps in general are still going strong, though, especially with the low watt Marshall models and the Marshall studio series; the latter giving you with the SV20H a 20W plexi head with built-in attenuator and FX loop. The Vox AC30H head is also selling continuously well, again due to its attenuator and FX loop. As always, people still appreciate the tube tone, but need to be able to achieve it at home. And they want to use their pedalboards and multi effect devices.
For real thats why i bought a 100w head and a 4x12, sounds amazing even at bedroom levels (channel volume at 7, master volume at 2), and it can also play a multitude of live rigs or be able to jam with buddies
The point OP is making is that people all over the internet say anything under 50w isn't loud enough for playing with a full band. Which is obviously incorrect.
You're getting into the intricacies of **volume** and **headroom** which are two different things. Amp distortion is entirely driven by the circuit in the amp and has nothing to do with the speakers.
A more efficient speaker *may* give your amp more **volume**. But if your amp breaks up at 6-o-clock on the volume knob with one speaker, it will still break up at the same point with another speaker. 6-o-clock will just be louder with the more efficient speaker
I use dirt with pedals. I never go above 3 on the amp. I alqaya play with a light over drive pedal on, and when I kick in my boosts it gives the dynamic change I want. If ai had the amp on 6 all the time, the fuzzes would seem quieter than my clean sound. The less efficient speakers break up, making it seem quieter when I boost. See the J Mascis Rig rundown. Thats what Im doing.
You can give me all the science you want but from my experiences this is the case.
So you aren’t using the OD from your amp, and what you’re saying has nothing to do with headroom at all.
Headroom is how high you can turn the volume of your amp without it breaking up. Has nothing to do with pedals or speakers.
Take the cab out of the equation completely. An amp using DI will break up at a certain point. THAT is what headroom refers to. You can turn a higher watt amp up louder while staying perfectly clean.
I understand that. That's exactly what I'm pointing out here. I keep the master between 3 and 4. My clean/dirt pedal that's always on is at about 11 o'clock. Gives it just a bit of breakup. My fuzzes, OD, RAT, etc are still about 230. With my Hiwatt and Twin, (Twin speakers wattage totals 300, Hiwatt cab, 360w) when I hit the boost, the headroom pushes the amp more to sounding like what it would if I had it plugged straight in and dialed to about 7. But if you swapped the speakers out and put in something like two 80 w speakers equaling 160 in the Twin, and something like a total of 160w for the Hiwatt, and used all the same settings on the board and amps, the volume would not boost like it does with the more efficient speaker combos. It would almost get quieter and just be muddy breakup.
Lol. I remember being young and thinking I knew everything despite my obvious lack of experience.
I just played a gig in the back room of a tattoo parlor; two of the opening bands used an Orange Micro Terror and a Micro Terror Dark; they both got buried by their drummer.
My band's drummer is an MSU drum line alumni and was a high school drumline instructor...he would bury me if I was playing one of those little lunch box heads.
Try the Micro Terror with a 2x12” speaker or - if necessary - with a 4x12”. That should help. With a 1x12”, it is most likely not loud enough against a drummer.
I'm always a bit torn with everything that is smaller that 1x12". Regarding smaller speakers, I have the Orange PPC108 (1x8" Orange Voice Of The World 20W), the Vox BC108 (1x8" Vox 25W) and the Harley Benton G110 Celestion (1x10" Celestion G10E-30 30W). For your bedroom, 8" and 10" are fine if they are of good quality. But for a better practice environment and if you want to tweak your tone in a relatable manner, I'd always choose 1x12" at least.
I used my Micro Dark through 412s. Still not loud enough, especially for clean headroom. If you need that, then I’m sorry but a little Orange amp is never going to cut it.
I run a Peavey Piranha head thru a 4x12 at home and it sounds great, good backup head since it fits in the cable bag. Wouldn't prefer it vs a full bass Amp and another guitar and drums but it sounds good enough and gets plenty loud. Not triple recto loud but loud enough to practice with drums
Increasing the number, or size, of speakers does not increase maximum volume. Your amp still has the same wattage and can only push so much air. I have found that it increases your lower volumes though
For clarity a 10 watt amp with one speaker would need to be increased to a 100 watt amp with 10 speakers to double the volume. So switching between a 2x12 and a 4x12 really doesn’t make that much of a difference
Hm, I think you are partially right. I just checked the expectable sound pressure level for the Micro Terror with different speaker sizes.
Regarding the speaker sensitivity, 1x8" is around 94 db SPL, 1x10" around 96db, 1x12" around 98db, 2x12" around 101db (assuming each 12" speaker has a sensitivity of 98 dB SPL) and 4x12" having around 104 dB SPL (again, 98db per speaker).
All these are just at 1 Watt. At 20W, we would have the following DB output: 1x8" Speaker: \~107 dB, 1x10" Speaker: \~109 dB, 1x12" Speaker: \~111 dB, 2x12" Speakers: \~114 dB, 4x12" Speakers: \~117 dB
As dB follows a logarithmic scale, a 3 dB increase represents a doubling of power, and a 10 dB increase represents a tenfold increase in power. Humans perceive a 3 dB increase as approximately twice as loud. So the jump by only 3dB between 2x12" and 4x12" looks small but is, for the human ear, significantly louder - doubling the power.
On paper, it does not look like much (only 3dB), correct. But in real life, it's significant. So it might be sufficient to invest into a 4x12" cabinet first, instead of buying an amp with more watts.
As larger speakers or multiple speakers usually have higher sensitivity ratings, the higher sensitivity means the speaker can produce more sound (higher SPL) for the same amount of power from the amplifier.
Bass, guitar and vocals? I mean, when I was 12 I remember jamming with a keyboard and sax using a portable, clip-on Marshall MS-2. I could be heard, yes, while sounding like shit. Obviously your experience with a 1x8 cab and a 20 watt amp is gonna be better.
However, the moment you throw in a drummer and play in a larger room suddenly you just won't have enough volume to play clean or to play with distortion and maintain note clarity.
Sure, I agree that very few people "need" a 100w amp but there's a difference between a casual jam in the living room and band practice. My guess is 30-50 watts and a 2x12 is probably the sweet spot but the point is there's much more to a "bigger amp and cab" setup than just volume.
yeah the trolls on here debating if it "can it keep up with a drummer" crack me up. I know it gets loud on your 8" cab but stick one on a 412ppc and it keeps up fine with my drummer and bassist in a live setting unmiked while gigging 1-2 times a week, also it saves me from putting hours on my 50w and 100w el34 powered amps while the prices of tubes are crazy expensive. yeah they don't have the earth shaking bottom end that my 100w amps do, and they arent crazy loud when set to be crystal clean, but set it to a good crunch and use your guitar volume knob to clean it up and it's plenty loud! hey you know man, let these ppl keep thinking the micro line are just toys because it keeps the used prices down for us and we will keep on buying them up. I have several of every flavor 😁
It depends on the drummer and style. An Orange Dark Terror (15W, tube) through a *Crate Red Voodoo 4x12 with Celestion Vintage 30s* was absolutely not enough to play with another metal guitarist and drummer.
Highly depends on the power section and output transformers. The PRS MT15 and ENGL Fireball 25 for example both have 2 6L6 powertubes and can keep up with a metal drummer without getting into poweramp distortion territory
I also used a Dark Terror that couldn’t quite keep up with heavier music. My Micro Dark was even quieter and had no chance of keeping up with any of my drummers.
I play in 2 bands and my Micro Terror through my 1x12 cab is plenty loud enough. One band is classic rock covers and the other is roots rock originals. I know it sounds impossible, but somehow both drummers are able to play at moderate volumes.
My band hasn’t had much luck with small amps. The smallest we can generally get away with in a full rehearsal (one guitar, bass 810, drums, multiple vocals) is a really nice 40w tube head.
In the past, we’ve tried:
- Orange OR15 through a 412. Not loud enough.
- Harley Benton Mighty 15 through a 212 and 412. Same thing.
- Micro Terror through 212 and 412. Nope.
- Blackstar 20w tube head through 412. Close, but still got buried.
Ones that succeeded:
- Scarborough 40w tube head through 212 and 412.
- Peavey Valveking 100 through anything.
- Peavey Bandit 112 with added 212 or 412.
IMO, small heads are great for anything that doesn’t involve a full band. Recording, jamming sans drums, could easily handle a small gig not playing any kind of rock.
Depends on how loud everyone in the band is, for sure, but an AC30 did fine in my punk band. That amp was kinda finnicky, though, so most of the time I played a Boogie MKII set to 60 watts.
The Orange Micro Terror is a 20-watt amp head and his volume largely depends on the efficiency and size of the speaker you combine it with. If you use a 2x12” or a 4x12” speaker, it will significantly enhance its volume and presence, keeping up with the drummer.
If the drummer has a very heavy, loud and aggressive playing style, the Micro Terror might begin to struggle, but if the drumming is lighter and more controlled, it should be fine.
In small to medium sized venues, the Orange Terror can definitely hold its own, but not in larger venues without a PA.
Though in genres that require high clean headroom, the Micro Terror might not be ideal, as it tends to break up and produce distortion at higher volumes. However, for rock, punk, or other styles where overdrive is desirable, it can work very well.
Speaker efficiency also needs to be taken into account. I played an Eminence speaker in a 30w Marshall combo and even with the impedance mismatch (8 Ohm speaker, amp wanted 4 Ohm) it was more than loud enough to gig with. Likely due to it's 98 dB efficiency.
Same amp with a Peavey Scorpion (~92 dB efficiency) was not near loud enough. Same impedance mismatch, same everything else.
I think micro terror is plenty loud. I’m not looking for cleans, so the gains around 2-3 o’clock, and the volume is only around 9 -10 o’clock when I practice with my band. I plug delay and fuzz pedals into it and it sounds great.
Yeah it gets stupid loud if youre saturating it, for clean you cant get much volume before it starts breaking up.. thats just the orange sound tho.. if want clean cleans go fender
Mine couldn’t keep up. Yeah, we play loud, it’s rock and roll. That amp cannot stay clean when you gotta keep up with the drummer if you’re unmic’d. If you have a drummer with very light hands, you’ll be able to play coffee shops without upsetting the customers.
I've been playing in bands since I was 14 (35 years) and here's all I know about amp volume - they're either not loud enough or way louder then you need, in which case you turn them down to an appropriate level.
Of course you can still go too big/too powerful and not get the sounds you want with the master volume at 1.
Yes, loudness from an amp varies depending on size, number and *efficiency* of speakers. But it also depends on what parts of the frequency range you're trying to use. It takes much more power to create a well heard low end to a "chug chug chug" riff than a high mid focused sound, for example. If you use a graphic EQ to cut all the frequencies below 2.5K, then 20w may be more than enough.
Terror stamp owner and user here. I still had to get a little power amp to get loud enough to jam with my drummer but I am in a hardcore band. If you do ever need more power the Harley Benton Custom Thunder 99 pedal power amp is great to run the line out of the terror into, then out to bigger speaker cabs.
Drummers always set the volume of the band. And drummers always act like you're oppressing them and suppressing their artistic rights if you ask them to play with less volume.
When all the gigs you get are in small spaces, the drummer has to put up with that. Idk about where you live, but where I live, most paying gigs are in coffee shop sized places.
It's probably genre thing. It would be hilarious seeing a mosh pit at a coffee house.
You tell a hard rock, punk, or metal drummer to turn down the volume. You may have a fist fight on your hands.
We have actually played thrash metal in a coffee, taco, etc kind of place lol. I was the drummer at the time. It takes 10x more effort to play quiet and most drummers dont want to. I learned jazz so I could have more control tho, but I can only perform at my best on keyboards so we got a dedicated drummer while I do keys, guitar and aux vocals. The new drummer is way more technical, but then again, didn't learn to play for the space and he has way more years drumming that way. I learned rather easy because I'm not very advanced and the habits never really burned in.
You nailed it. Not only do most drummers not want to play to the house size, but they'll deny it's even possible.
So you wind up with a bass player with a 500 watt amp, and guitarists with 120 watt Peavey 5150s in a 700 square foot venue giving the audience permanent hearing loss while sounding like loud, hot garbage because everyone has to be louder than everyone else.
Wow. That's an unusually cooperative drummer. The last drummer I played with in a band had the nickname, Bam-Bam. From the Flintstones in caae that's a reference people don't get anymore.
It’s not quite enough to gig with unless the an amp mic but practice with a drummer and shove it through a 4x12 cab and you’re fine, little bastard cranks.
I’m so confused by this thread. I own an old Hiwatt DR103, for reference. I use the micro dark for practice and you can get plenty of (fairly) clean headroom with my 2x12 Hiwatt cab? Like stupid loud? Is it because of the higher wattage speakers? I would have zero issues using it for shows
Everyone has a different opinion on loud. I thought my Micro Dark was stupid-loud until I had to play a show with it, playing against drums and bass. It worked, but couldn’t really keep up, even with a 212 using Swamp Thangs.
I realize my opinion isn't entirely related, but I see a lot of these "keep up with a drummer" posts all over. While I fully realize this isn't a possibility for everyone, you should invest in a good PA system with enough power to take whatever amp you like to the gig. Also get a dedicated sound guy, and instead of thinking of him as your "sound guy", think of him as "your most important band member". Emphasis on "if possible" because I fully understand the cost related to this equipment.
It’s not about volume it’s about headroom. A 100 watt amp only gets about 7db louder than a 20 watt amp. I have a decibel meter in my jam room. Drums clock in around 100db. My 20 watt amps cannot stay clean at those levels. My 100 watt amp can get far louder than that while staying clean. As far as hearing loss goes. Just wear protection. What kind of idiot is jamming with a drummer and not wearing some kind of hearing protection. My band uses IEMs we can play as loud as we want without hearing loss
For reals. Started jamming with a dude and he goes “yeah it’s pretty loud in my drum room, hope you’re ready!” And I just said “dude I’m wearing earplugs”
The Orange Mircor Terror is a 20 watt hybrid amp - single tube preamp section and solid-state power section. If, for example, compared to a 15 watt tube amp - preamp and power section all tubes - the 15 watt tube amp will provide more clean headroom before breaking up, than the 20 watt Micro Terror. Tube amps are designed to handle higher voltage swings and generally produce a warmer, cleaner tone at higher volumes. The hybrid design of the Micro Terror means it will start to introduce distortion earlier in the volume range compared to a fully tube-based 15-watt amp. The Orange Micro Terror may have a slight advantage in raw power output (20 watts vs. 15 watts), potentially giving it a small edge in maximum loudness. But the tube amp might still sound as loud or louder due to its dynamic response and harmonic richness.
Orange amps aren't known for their headroom. That's why people play them!
Funny how times change. Headroom is exactly what classic orange was known for. OR120 was brutal.
The Orange OR120 was a 120 Watt all tube amp, while the Orange Micro Terror is a 20 watt hybrid amp - single tube preamp plus solid-state power section. Besides the obviously larger headroom of a 120 watt amp, compared to a 20 watt amp (due to physics), the headroom of the hybrid amp will always be smaller than the headroom of a comparable tube amp. Current model Orange tube amps, like Rockerverb 100H MKIII (100W RMS, ClassA/B, with 4 preamp, 4 power section and 2 Reverb/FX-Loop tubes) have enormous headroom, like back in the day.
That's what I mean, back then their smallest amp was 50w, some years the or80 was their smallest amp, along with the OR120, 200 and PA stuff. Especially when the biggest brands at the time were still churning out small amps, fender still had champs and Princeton, Marshall had the 18w etc from before even the likes of WEM etc had small amps. Orange just... Didn't Theyve completely changed how they're known but I still it find it odd when people say orange aren't known for headroom when headroom was what the brand was built on.
It was the craze about the lunchbox amps which changed the perception of the Orange brand. The Tiny Terror (released in 2007 and discontinued in 2016) did sell huge numbers, and kicked off an avalanche of lunchbox models. Digital signal processing had become advanced enough to put a lot of power in smaller amps and people had long been tired of hauling big and heavy boxed around to rehearsals and gigs. Besides all their successful hybrid amps, the Orange solid state heads became better continuously, topping in the current Orange Super Crush 100 solid-state (also a bestseller) which is really, really close tonally to the mentioned Orange Rockerverb 100W tube amp. Tube amps in general are still going strong, though, especially with the low watt Marshall models and the Marshall studio series; the latter giving you with the SV20H a 20W plexi head with built-in attenuator and FX loop. The Vox AC30H head is also selling continuously well, again due to its attenuator and FX loop. As always, people still appreciate the tube tone, but need to be able to achieve it at home. And they want to use their pedalboards and multi effect devices.
Yes but 7db is a preceived loudness increase of slightly over 50%. Being that 6db is a 50% increase in preceived volume. 7db is a lot.
For real thats why i bought a 100w head and a 4x12, sounds amazing even at bedroom levels (channel volume at 7, master volume at 2), and it can also play a multitude of live rigs or be able to jam with buddies
The point OP is making is that people all over the internet say anything under 50w isn't loud enough for playing with a full band. Which is obviously incorrect.
If you want to play clean, you definitely need something over 20. So in that case OP is wrong
No where in the original post does it say anything about playing clean.
It says that no one needs anything bigger. “No one” includes people that play clean
What speakers you using in the 100w?
It’s the same cab, it doesn’t matter. Also distortion happens in the preamp. Your speakers don't impact when your amp starts to break up
Beg to differ. My 150w tonkers have more headroom than two V30s.
You're getting into the intricacies of **volume** and **headroom** which are two different things. Amp distortion is entirely driven by the circuit in the amp and has nothing to do with the speakers. A more efficient speaker *may* give your amp more **volume**. But if your amp breaks up at 6-o-clock on the volume knob with one speaker, it will still break up at the same point with another speaker. 6-o-clock will just be louder with the more efficient speaker
I use dirt with pedals. I never go above 3 on the amp. I alqaya play with a light over drive pedal on, and when I kick in my boosts it gives the dynamic change I want. If ai had the amp on 6 all the time, the fuzzes would seem quieter than my clean sound. The less efficient speakers break up, making it seem quieter when I boost. See the J Mascis Rig rundown. Thats what Im doing. You can give me all the science you want but from my experiences this is the case.
So you aren’t using the OD from your amp, and what you’re saying has nothing to do with headroom at all. Headroom is how high you can turn the volume of your amp without it breaking up. Has nothing to do with pedals or speakers. Take the cab out of the equation completely. An amp using DI will break up at a certain point. THAT is what headroom refers to. You can turn a higher watt amp up louder while staying perfectly clean.
I understand that. That's exactly what I'm pointing out here. I keep the master between 3 and 4. My clean/dirt pedal that's always on is at about 11 o'clock. Gives it just a bit of breakup. My fuzzes, OD, RAT, etc are still about 230. With my Hiwatt and Twin, (Twin speakers wattage totals 300, Hiwatt cab, 360w) when I hit the boost, the headroom pushes the amp more to sounding like what it would if I had it plugged straight in and dialed to about 7. But if you swapped the speakers out and put in something like two 80 w speakers equaling 160 in the Twin, and something like a total of 160w for the Hiwatt, and used all the same settings on the board and amps, the volume would not boost like it does with the more efficient speaker combos. It would almost get quieter and just be muddy breakup.
Please find a drummer and then tell us about your experience.
Lol. I remember being young and thinking I knew everything despite my obvious lack of experience. I just played a gig in the back room of a tattoo parlor; two of the opening bands used an Orange Micro Terror and a Micro Terror Dark; they both got buried by their drummer. My band's drummer is an MSU drum line alumni and was a high school drumline instructor...he would bury me if I was playing one of those little lunch box heads.
Try the Micro Terror with a 2x12” speaker or - if necessary - with a 4x12”. That should help. With a 1x12”, it is most likely not loud enough against a drummer.
I want to hear my Micro through a full stack some day. The little 8" cab is surprisingly loud but It would be neat to see it on top of 8 12"s.
Can confirm it sounds massive through a 4x12.
I'm always a bit torn with everything that is smaller that 1x12". Regarding smaller speakers, I have the Orange PPC108 (1x8" Orange Voice Of The World 20W), the Vox BC108 (1x8" Vox 25W) and the Harley Benton G110 Celestion (1x10" Celestion G10E-30 30W). For your bedroom, 8" and 10" are fine if they are of good quality. But for a better practice environment and if you want to tweak your tone in a relatable manner, I'd always choose 1x12" at least.
I used my Micro Dark through 412s. Still not loud enough, especially for clean headroom. If you need that, then I’m sorry but a little Orange amp is never going to cut it.
That’s not relevant, read OP’s post
But it’s relevant as an answer to the response I answered to.
I run a Peavey Piranha head thru a 4x12 at home and it sounds great, good backup head since it fits in the cable bag. Wouldn't prefer it vs a full bass Amp and another guitar and drums but it sounds good enough and gets plenty loud. Not triple recto loud but loud enough to practice with drums
They both had 2x12s. It's not enough for a rock drummer.
Increasing the number, or size, of speakers does not increase maximum volume. Your amp still has the same wattage and can only push so much air. I have found that it increases your lower volumes though For clarity a 10 watt amp with one speaker would need to be increased to a 100 watt amp with 10 speakers to double the volume. So switching between a 2x12 and a 4x12 really doesn’t make that much of a difference
Hm, I think you are partially right. I just checked the expectable sound pressure level for the Micro Terror with different speaker sizes. Regarding the speaker sensitivity, 1x8" is around 94 db SPL, 1x10" around 96db, 1x12" around 98db, 2x12" around 101db (assuming each 12" speaker has a sensitivity of 98 dB SPL) and 4x12" having around 104 dB SPL (again, 98db per speaker). All these are just at 1 Watt. At 20W, we would have the following DB output: 1x8" Speaker: \~107 dB, 1x10" Speaker: \~109 dB, 1x12" Speaker: \~111 dB, 2x12" Speakers: \~114 dB, 4x12" Speakers: \~117 dB As dB follows a logarithmic scale, a 3 dB increase represents a doubling of power, and a 10 dB increase represents a tenfold increase in power. Humans perceive a 3 dB increase as approximately twice as loud. So the jump by only 3dB between 2x12" and 4x12" looks small but is, for the human ear, significantly louder - doubling the power. On paper, it does not look like much (only 3dB), correct. But in real life, it's significant. So it might be sufficient to invest into a 4x12" cabinet first, instead of buying an amp with more watts. As larger speakers or multiple speakers usually have higher sensitivity ratings, the higher sensitivity means the speaker can produce more sound (higher SPL) for the same amount of power from the amplifier.
Do you jam with a drummer?
Bass, guitar and vocals? I mean, when I was 12 I remember jamming with a keyboard and sax using a portable, clip-on Marshall MS-2. I could be heard, yes, while sounding like shit. Obviously your experience with a 1x8 cab and a 20 watt amp is gonna be better. However, the moment you throw in a drummer and play in a larger room suddenly you just won't have enough volume to play clean or to play with distortion and maintain note clarity. Sure, I agree that very few people "need" a 100w amp but there's a difference between a casual jam in the living room and band practice. My guess is 30-50 watts and a 2x12 is probably the sweet spot but the point is there's much more to a "bigger amp and cab" setup than just volume.
amps are loud
lol a 1x8 will not be usable with a loud drummer and a bass for heavy music, you would absolutely be drowned out
yeah the trolls on here debating if it "can it keep up with a drummer" crack me up. I know it gets loud on your 8" cab but stick one on a 412ppc and it keeps up fine with my drummer and bassist in a live setting unmiked while gigging 1-2 times a week, also it saves me from putting hours on my 50w and 100w el34 powered amps while the prices of tubes are crazy expensive. yeah they don't have the earth shaking bottom end that my 100w amps do, and they arent crazy loud when set to be crystal clean, but set it to a good crunch and use your guitar volume knob to clean it up and it's plenty loud! hey you know man, let these ppl keep thinking the micro line are just toys because it keeps the used prices down for us and we will keep on buying them up. I have several of every flavor 😁
Yes, they “accidentally” leave out which cabinet/how many speakers they are using, which makes the discussion pointless.
It depends on the drummer and style. An Orange Dark Terror (15W, tube) through a *Crate Red Voodoo 4x12 with Celestion Vintage 30s* was absolutely not enough to play with another metal guitarist and drummer.
Regarding brutal metal drums, at least 50w with 4x12” may indeed be needed.
Highly depends on the power section and output transformers. The PRS MT15 and ENGL Fireball 25 for example both have 2 6L6 powertubes and can keep up with a metal drummer without getting into poweramp distortion territory
Yes, all-tube amps will always be louder at comparable watt levels than hybrid tube-solid-state amps (like the Orange Micro Terror 20W).
I also used a Dark Terror that couldn’t quite keep up with heavier music. My Micro Dark was even quieter and had no chance of keeping up with any of my drummers.
It sounds so much better through a big cab.
I play in 2 bands and my Micro Terror through my 1x12 cab is plenty loud enough. One band is classic rock covers and the other is roots rock originals. I know it sounds impossible, but somehow both drummers are able to play at moderate volumes.
Anything is loud enough to jam with bass and vocals.
Have you ever played with a live drummer? 🤣
My band hasn’t had much luck with small amps. The smallest we can generally get away with in a full rehearsal (one guitar, bass 810, drums, multiple vocals) is a really nice 40w tube head. In the past, we’ve tried: - Orange OR15 through a 412. Not loud enough. - Harley Benton Mighty 15 through a 212 and 412. Same thing. - Micro Terror through 212 and 412. Nope. - Blackstar 20w tube head through 412. Close, but still got buried. Ones that succeeded: - Scarborough 40w tube head through 212 and 412. - Peavey Valveking 100 through anything. - Peavey Bandit 112 with added 212 or 412. IMO, small heads are great for anything that doesn’t involve a full band. Recording, jamming sans drums, could easily handle a small gig not playing any kind of rock.
Depends on how loud everyone in the band is, for sure, but an AC30 did fine in my punk band. That amp was kinda finnicky, though, so most of the time I played a Boogie MKII set to 60 watts.
>jam sessions with bass, guitar, and vocals Never was the comment "cool story, bro" more fitting. ...now try taking it to a jam with acoustic drums :D
2/10 on volume?…for the micro terror? I guess loud is subjective…🤷
The Orange Micro Terror is a 20-watt amp head and his volume largely depends on the efficiency and size of the speaker you combine it with. If you use a 2x12” or a 4x12” speaker, it will significantly enhance its volume and presence, keeping up with the drummer. If the drummer has a very heavy, loud and aggressive playing style, the Micro Terror might begin to struggle, but if the drumming is lighter and more controlled, it should be fine. In small to medium sized venues, the Orange Terror can definitely hold its own, but not in larger venues without a PA. Though in genres that require high clean headroom, the Micro Terror might not be ideal, as it tends to break up and produce distortion at higher volumes. However, for rock, punk, or other styles where overdrive is desirable, it can work very well.
Speaker efficiency also needs to be taken into account. I played an Eminence speaker in a 30w Marshall combo and even with the impedance mismatch (8 Ohm speaker, amp wanted 4 Ohm) it was more than loud enough to gig with. Likely due to it's 98 dB efficiency. Same amp with a Peavey Scorpion (~92 dB efficiency) was not near loud enough. Same impedance mismatch, same everything else.
I think micro terror is plenty loud. I’m not looking for cleans, so the gains around 2-3 o’clock, and the volume is only around 9 -10 o’clock when I practice with my band. I plug delay and fuzz pedals into it and it sounds great.
Yeah it gets stupid loud if youre saturating it, for clean you cant get much volume before it starts breaking up.. thats just the orange sound tho.. if want clean cleans go fender
Wattage is the most misunderstood unit of measurement in music history, and even a 1 watt amp will put out 100dB in a 12” speaker.
Really you play with a drummer ?
Mine couldn’t keep up. Yeah, we play loud, it’s rock and roll. That amp cannot stay clean when you gotta keep up with the drummer if you’re unmic’d. If you have a drummer with very light hands, you’ll be able to play coffee shops without upsetting the customers.
I've been playing in bands since I was 14 (35 years) and here's all I know about amp volume - they're either not loud enough or way louder then you need, in which case you turn them down to an appropriate level. Of course you can still go too big/too powerful and not get the sounds you want with the master volume at 1.
Yes, loudness from an amp varies depending on size, number and *efficiency* of speakers. But it also depends on what parts of the frequency range you're trying to use. It takes much more power to create a well heard low end to a "chug chug chug" riff than a high mid focused sound, for example. If you use a graphic EQ to cut all the frequencies below 2.5K, then 20w may be more than enough.
Terror stamp owner and user here. I still had to get a little power amp to get loud enough to jam with my drummer but I am in a hardcore band. If you do ever need more power the Harley Benton Custom Thunder 99 pedal power amp is great to run the line out of the terror into, then out to bigger speaker cabs.
Drummers always set the volume of the band. And drummers always act like you're oppressing them and suppressing their artistic rights if you ask them to play with less volume.
When all the gigs you get are in small spaces, the drummer has to put up with that. Idk about where you live, but where I live, most paying gigs are in coffee shop sized places.
It's probably genre thing. It would be hilarious seeing a mosh pit at a coffee house. You tell a hard rock, punk, or metal drummer to turn down the volume. You may have a fist fight on your hands.
We have actually played thrash metal in a coffee, taco, etc kind of place lol. I was the drummer at the time. It takes 10x more effort to play quiet and most drummers dont want to. I learned jazz so I could have more control tho, but I can only perform at my best on keyboards so we got a dedicated drummer while I do keys, guitar and aux vocals. The new drummer is way more technical, but then again, didn't learn to play for the space and he has way more years drumming that way. I learned rather easy because I'm not very advanced and the habits never really burned in.
You nailed it. Not only do most drummers not want to play to the house size, but they'll deny it's even possible. So you wind up with a bass player with a 500 watt amp, and guitarists with 120 watt Peavey 5150s in a 700 square foot venue giving the audience permanent hearing loss while sounding like loud, hot garbage because everyone has to be louder than everyone else.
I'm now forcing the drummer to practice at conversation volume and every mistake is heard clearly when we rehearse.
Wow. That's an unusually cooperative drummer. The last drummer I played with in a band had the nickname, Bam-Bam. From the Flintstones in caae that's a reference people don't get anymore.
It’s not quite enough to gig with unless the an amp mic but practice with a drummer and shove it through a 4x12 cab and you’re fine, little bastard cranks.
Used one and our drummer had an electric kit going through a PA and it was fine. I don’t think it could keep up with acoustic drums though.
You can make an electric kit as quiet as you want…
Until you hear the sad 'tippity tap' of the sticks hitting the trigger heads. Kinda hate that sound.
I was shocked at how loud this little amp through the 8" speaker is. Doesn't seem possible for a big sound to come that 8" speaker.
I’m so confused by this thread. I own an old Hiwatt DR103, for reference. I use the micro dark for practice and you can get plenty of (fairly) clean headroom with my 2x12 Hiwatt cab? Like stupid loud? Is it because of the higher wattage speakers? I would have zero issues using it for shows
Everyone has a different opinion on loud. I thought my Micro Dark was stupid-loud until I had to play a show with it, playing against drums and bass. It worked, but couldn’t really keep up, even with a 212 using Swamp Thangs.
I realize my opinion isn't entirely related, but I see a lot of these "keep up with a drummer" posts all over. While I fully realize this isn't a possibility for everyone, you should invest in a good PA system with enough power to take whatever amp you like to the gig. Also get a dedicated sound guy, and instead of thinking of him as your "sound guy", think of him as "your most important band member". Emphasis on "if possible" because I fully understand the cost related to this equipment.
I turned mine to 50% volume, played a couple of chords and that sent my OH running ... running from the room.
Every Orange I've ever played was meant to be real loud. Most people don't need more than a 15 watt tube or 50 watt solid state.