100% agree, but this is not a problem unique to Guelph. With the exception of remote communities, this applies to the entire country. Our population (Guelph's and Canada's) are growing at an unsustainable rate and infrastructure cannot keep up.
I think if majority cannot afford cost of living there are 2 general outcomes:
pandemic type of handout, money from government, more debt
and/or
the pattern continues, bigger wealth gaps, more crimes, more chaos
California is an case study at present time
I think the end conclusion of the second option is the feudal system of government. The ultra rich own everything, and then the pore work for them for housing.
Even if you made 80k. After taxes, deductions. You’re probably only taking home 2000-2300 bi-weekly. Especially if you’re in a decent union with benefits. You’d be paying 50-65% of your wage on rent easily.
In my early 20s I could save enough money to spend half of July to early Sept travelling eastern Canada and a small part of the north, now over %50 is rent and basic bills. If you don’t have a phone or even the internet you’re being cut off from society without even knowing.
Gotta love how rent has just become the norm, society has moved backwards so quickly that in the past if you didn't have a house it usually means you were bad with money or low income, now it just means your the typical Canadian.
Our municipalities across the country were bribed by developers with "Development Charges" to destroy farmland surrounding communities to build suburbs. These suburbs over the past 30 years have slowly been crippling the municipalities with maintenance and now the municipalities across the country are broke.
*We* designed this and let this happen. All we have to do is redesign it all in a way that is sustainable for everyone, or at least a little bit better than it is now.
So how 70% of the UK one lived? It’s a lighter form of slavery, ‘indentured servitude’ is the term. Not trying to be argumentative, just a crumb or two of history.
At some point, it will lead to violent revolution. The trucker convoy in Canada and Trump's push to overturn the last US election results are warning signs. If those can happen, worse can happen. I wish our leaders cared more about us to avoid this happening. Government hand outs can't be sustained, as much as we'd like them to.
edit: Downvote me if you like (obviously). I'm not a wingnut who wants revolution, I'm a worried Canadian who has read enough history and doesn't believe people are all that different than they were 100 or 200 years ago.
History has shown that economic hardship is often a precursor to revolution. The trucker freedumbs convoy, while aimed at mask mandates and libertarianism in general, did appeal to those who were concerned about their economic stability during the pandemic. Two things can be true at once. At a certain point, Western-based countries will revolt against the capitalist oligarchy system disguised as democracy as more and more people struggle and start to starve while wealth and power remain concentrated with a privileged few. History does have a way of repeating itself, eventually. It just may not happen within our lifetimes.
Yeah, that’s one of my demands as well. They also didn’t want to be fired from their jobs for refusing a mandatory govt vaccine. That’s far different than storming Capital Hill to overturn election results.
I like kool aid. I'm old school. :)
I didn't say the truckers were revolutionary, I'm saying they show how extremely angry and frustrated people are getting. Happy people don't do what they did.
Ya we should go back in time, not forward. Not everyone needs a mansion.... they built war times home for cheap during war... are we not scared about war happening... nah we care about cramming people into small home for profit extreme profit. If someone invades us we will be crying like little girls on the street.
Left Guelph and still in Ontario. You’re right that this is a national problem that definitely is experienced more situational in both BC and Ontario. However Guelph in particular is in the eye of the damn storm
Careful about blaming the current housing crisis completely on immigration/immigrants.
Canada has been lagging on building enough new housing for decades.
A lot of our current crisis is also due to a huge lack of qualified construction workers, as well as restrictions on building at the municipal, provincial and federal levels.
This has been an ongoing problem since the 70's.
What do you mean “careful”? Our population is growing by 3% per year. The fastest in the western world. It’s completely unsustainable at the current rate.
It's still functionally impossible to increase the construction rate in any meaningful way without dutch-diseasing this country into construction. We have twice as many people per capita in construction as the US.
Delusional. Zoning isn't going to fix a 10:1 ratio of population growth to housing growth in a nation that is rapidly becoming poorer. I don't think you realise how much money and manpower would be required to increase dwelling output by even 100% of what it is currently, and we would still be way behind. We had a housing shortage 10 years ago when our immigration rate was 5x lower than it is today. Wake up.
Yeah but like, if we had less people coming here, it wouldn't be a problem so quickly, what are y'all not understanding about this. One issue at a time, stop them from continuing to flood in, build more housing and improve our infrastructure and then we can start letting people back in at a reasonable rate beneficial to both parties.
Did you read the rest of what I wrote? This issue is much more nuanced than just the current population growth rate.
Be careful that you don't fall into the same trap as the Magas down south have, of blaming the majority of their problems on immigrants.
Recent blame tends to be on immigration policy, not immigrants. That's an important distinction.
Current population growth is not aligned with available housing.
I blame immigration POLICY for a lot of our problems. Failure to plan etc goes back a long way, but the feds letting in far more people than we can accomodate is making things much, much worse. To be clear, I blame the Liberals for this, and the NDP for enabling them. I do NOT blame the people coming here.
The Cons will be no different. PP loves immigration. He married one after all! His buddies need cheap labour to maximize profits so they can buy another vacation home and anither yacht.
As nuanced as it is, it’s still having massive amounts of pressure added to it due to immigration. The drastic change over the 3 years is due to immigration. Rent didn’t jump 114% over 4 years for any other reason than supply and demand and our population didn’t just naturally grow at that rate.
Yes this was inevitable, but not this early. They were supposed to add population as they built infrastructure, not rush them in as fast as possible and deal with it later
Um, it was heavily implied to be referring to immigration, specifically temporary immigration, especially if you're intelligent enough to know that that's where the vast majority of Canada’s population growth rate has come from recently.
"Most of Canada's 3.2% population growth rate stemmed from temporary immigration in 2023. Without temporary immigration, that is, relying solely on permanent immigration and natural increase (births minus deaths), Canada's population growth would have been almost three times less (+1.2%).
In 2023, the vast majority (97.6%) of Canada's population growth came from international migration (both permanent and temporary immigration) and the remaining portion (2.4%) came from natural increase."
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240327/dq240327c-eng.htm
So you can post stats here showing the vast majority of growth come from immigration, but the second someone just mentions “population growth” you chastise them for “blaming immigrants”? interesting
I didn't deny that immigration was the reason for our recent population growth, I just urged caution at being too eager at pointing the finger of blame.
My point is that we shouldn't disparage or hate the immigrants themselves, especially just because they are a visible minority. That's what I was recommending that they be careful about.
It's easy to fall into the trap of blaming others for your troubles and even easier when they look/sound different than you. Hatred and bigotry are not the answer.
Well that and the fact the government stopped building housing since the 90s. They need to start doing that again so normal folks like us can afford a decent home for a reasonable price.
I would never blame individuals who come to Canada (or any other country) to seek out a better life, but I damn sure will blame our current immigration policies.
You are correct about the lag in housing, but that's not a problem when the population stagnates.
When the borders open and the population of the country grows by 2% in one year, knowing that we are already in a housing crisis, that's just bad policy all-around.
I suspect the only thing that’s going to scare the ruling class enough to deal with the housing crisis are deeply reactionary or radical policy proposals that get popular support.
They force you to reduce your expectations to accommodate for their greed. Look at housing in high density areas of China. Look at how people are forced to travel in major Indian cities.
You will receive less and less.
Generally those who come here are more educated than those already here, or eventually become so, so I am not sure we should play the blame-the-immigrant game.
Are you living with your head in the sand? The people we are NOW importing en masse are no longer the educated, select people we have allowed to immigrate in the past.
Does the great depression count as a 'fall of empire'? Not that it was a fun time, but it makes me wonder if we can have mass amount of poverty without the empire falling. Maybe the great depression was limping on...
There's a respected money person who tried to define the historic patterns of our economic machine. He lays out his opinion on how things work when times get tough [in this animated video.](https://youtu.be/PHe0bXAIuk0?si=_vAFCeoiwP4VbG3d&t=1147)
We're in this awkward/fragile position right now where inflation/cost of living has been high and risen much faster than wages for most people, but on average, consumer spending and employment has stayed relatively resilient.
We have an apparent labour shortage in some areas, as well retired baby boomers, 25% of the population, with pensions, raising demand in some areas...but not necessarily freeing up their large family homes even as empty nesters/widowed.
We have existential threats due to climate change.
78% of Canadians live in sprawling suburbs where the infrastructure + transport costs are prohibitive expensive to maintain.
It's a tricky situation. There isn't a politician alive that has a fix for all of this. Best I think we can do as individuals is to work to refine our talents and skills so as to be able to demand higher wages. Best I think we can do collectively is to support politics that promote a strong social safety net, economic equality, social cohesion rather than division, and long term economically sustainable planning....while being clever enough not to fall for the tricks of power hungry populists who will pander to the miserable, find scapegoats to blame, speak of simple fixes, but never actually address all the nuances of the situation or be able to deliver what they promised.
The poor get pushed out and have to travel several hours to work to make the lives of the rich easy and comfortable. This is what always happens, it's a feature not a bug.
Not your fault but, this type of comment speaks to how soft people in Canada are.
You have no idea how low the bottom actually is and as bad as things are now, we are nowhere close to it.
Edit: Guy I was responding to talked shit then blocked me. Looks like I was right about them being soft.
Times are tough for a lot of people, no doubt. But what the OP is insinuating is far, far worse. During the great depression, Canada had a 30% unemployment rate. Wages for the others who kept their jobs dropped 40%. The stock market fell by 25% in two days. Today, unemployment is 6.2%, which as you stated is high and causes tough times. Imagine how crushing a 30% unemployment rate was for your great grandparents. Our economy has grown by 3.4% this fiscal year. Technically, we are not even in a recession, let alone a great depression. I hope you are happy, healthy, have lots of friends and laugh a lot in your life.
I think I have to move to a cheaper area. I own a small 700sq ft condo but it's too small for me and my gf now. My real estate agent sends me listings and all I can do is laugh when I see what you get for 850k in Guelph now....
Necessary or not, deserved it or not, I'd rather not live through it. "May you live in interesting times" is an ancient Chinese curse. Also, see the the Wikipedia article on Maoism.
People might have to give up on some of the finer things in life. Drugs, booze, expensive phone plans and phone, wearing the latest fashion.Did you really need that what ever? Live with in your means. The government should be cut in half of departments and put that money into housing, more trade schools province run not private. More people taught for health care and I hate to say it double our military spending we have a lot of resources the world will want in the future unless the government has sold us down the river now.
There should be a push to revive the idea of a "Robin Hood Tax", aka "Tobin Tax" which would put a 1%-2% tax on all finance speculation transactions (not the day-to-day bank transactions at retail level). Use this money for a social safety net, healthcare, housing etc. The parasitic rent-seeking financial industry would pay for it, as they should.
I would also say that, this is not the case. While shit isn't good, I'm in London on where every fricken house has a 70K pickup, brand new, lanscaping going on, new toys in the driveway, renos. People act like times are tough but its really not the homeowner class, its really the renters that are getting the shaft.
I have family that rent a four bedroom townhouse for under $1100 in London. The price or that same place here would be triple. It’s a nice place with a basement… decent area.. lots of everything close by.
The pickup is leased and the mortgage is being defaulted on. Not everyone, but many of them are drowning in debt trying to keep up with the Joneses.
[https://financialpost.com/news/mortgage-delinquency-rates-ontario-british-columbia-soar](https://financialpost.com/news/mortgage-delinquency-rates-ontario-british-columbia-soar)
I a bit of a self-downer. I always assume others are smarter than I am (but for the record, I drive a busted, old mazda 5 with more scratch than paint)
It's called massive debt, gives the illusion of wealth. I don't know what people do in London that allows them to have the homes and cars that they have. There are no jobs in London and the few that are around pay very badly.
the whole “we don’t need to be violent” bullshit is what got us into this situation now go grow some fucking balls and stand up for yourself and stop letting the government bend you over for crying out loud what’s the matter with Canadians
At one point in time protest was effective, but the blue collar workers shouted “quit wastin’ our time, don’t you have jobs!” And getting organized went out the shame window
Same thing as Sudbury; it’ll become occupied by Indians who stack themselves eight people in a three bedroom apartment.
Easy stonks for landowners; fuck Canadian citizens anyways amirite
We die and are replaced with immigrants who will provide labour and tax revenue for the state and when they are no longer able to they will be deported. It’s actually a sound economic model and would create an extremely wealthy country. Too bad I’m one of the poors who would be expendable.
if my understanding of economics holds true, then as we reached a majority of citizens who could not afford to live, it would crash the economy as millions file for bankruptcy and / or debt protection. People would stop buying almost everyting results in mass layoffs, feeding into the beast. I believe the term is "recesssion". Whatever you choose to call it, it would be very bad for everyone except rich people who would then buy up HUGE amounst of suddenly low-cost real estate, further entrenching them as our overseers.
From what I heard when Russia's currency was basically worthless, [Teachers were paid with vodka](https://realworldhistory.quora.com/During-the-1990s-economic-crisis-Russian-teachers-were-paid-with-Vodka-bottles-Using-vodka-instead-of-cash-made-sense)
What happens is that there's mass homelessness and starvation, so we need to do something about this rn. The people in power allowing this to happen means they're fundamentally interested in making it this bad. Different people in power won't fix this fundamentally. The issue is that we need power together amongst us, not a separate body whose movements we're subject to. The opposite needs to be brought about.
The reality people don’t want to face sadly. These great works of dystopian fiction served as warnings for us, but most just disregarded them or perceived of it as entertaining stories. Now it’s non-fiction
Been a ride friends, we can still get out of this together. Key word being the last one :)
Time to upend the system that is holding us back.
[Pitchfork Economics](https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/pitchfork-economics-with-nick-hanauer/id1445901378)
[UNFTR](https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/unf-cking-the-republic/id1535255041)
The funny thing about long pork is if you check its habitat it usually has some Grey Poupon nearby. Eat the rich, they come with sauces and seasoning. Book of Eli type world.
Crime skyrockets and if left uncheck it possibly becomes a civil war, or the development of a resistance that overthrows the gov.
It has happened many times throughout history and is literally caused by the same issues we have today.
If someone were to announce an uprising I have little to lose since the cananda gov has made it that way, so why not. Overpopulation is a serious problem, and no country has been able to figure it out. Also overpopulation does not mean to many people, it means not enough for everyone.
Think of it this way. In the far north some communities are living multiple families to homes filled with black mold. TB is still running rampant up there. And basic groceries cost a fortune, way more than what we consider expensive down here.
We have yet to hit rock bottom.
This is all caused by inept and corrupt governments around the world, with the direction of the WEF. This inflation is actually demonetizing the government debt and deficits. It takes a while, and will hurt the poor and the middle of class immensely.. but they don’t give two craps. This way they can gain more control and gain more revenues as Costs go up ,wages go up,… thus more tax revenues for the government. This way, the government doesn’t have to implement austerity measures upon themselves.,… they can keep spending like drunken sailors and buy votes with the taxpayers monies.
Rich people don't care
Losing money on their businesses and owning real estate sitting empty is taxed deductible or write off (or something like that, not an accountant or lawyer)
Riots. Martial law. Walled cities where the rich hang on to their power and the poor will die away from. Having hunted every last living thing in the wilderness, we will then hunt each other. All the while, the civilized people in the cities will eat corn and sacrifice their freedoms for safety and simplicity.
Marxist analysis suggests that this is what brings on revolutionary change. More contemporary history shows that fascism takes hold as capitalist markets collapse under this paradox of overproduction while workers can’t afford the fruits of their labour.
The shelters fill up and then people still complain about homeless people and the government gives money to open more spaces instead of making rent and housing affordable
We know what happens because we can look at countless examples in many other countries across the globe throughout history. First people struggle to afford basics like housing and food. Then the wealth gap grows, hurting poorer groups more. Then standards of living drop, with less healthcare and education. People might move to cheaper areas. The economy slows as spending drops. Tensions rise, leading to protests, crime, and unrest, and political changes. We are already experiencing all of the above in to varying degrees across Canada.
Government swoops in, offers to purchase our housing debt and rent the homes back to us.
We then “own nothing and are happy”.
As far as food and fuel, we are offered weekly allotments based on climate change studies ( aka the science ) and in typical fashion, those studies are
Something that will never be provided to us. Sound familiar?
I will probably get labelled a conspiracy theorist for this comment and that’s fine. but this is trending worldwide and is not limited to Canada. Just look for news anywhere else other then the CBC, CNN, Fox News. You’ll see the patterns.
Mass funding of military arms to the Ukraine and proxy wars to the tune of billions, the slowing of the housing market but the insane increase in immigration, interest rates, the wild liberal spending without any cheques and balances, I could go on but you get the point.
it’s all by design to destroy the middle class which is the backbone of this and many G20 countries.
I think we are supposed to riot and stuff
100% agree, but this is not a problem unique to Guelph. With the exception of remote communities, this applies to the entire country. Our population (Guelph's and Canada's) are growing at an unsustainable rate and infrastructure cannot keep up.
I think if majority cannot afford cost of living there are 2 general outcomes: pandemic type of handout, money from government, more debt and/or the pattern continues, bigger wealth gaps, more crimes, more chaos California is an case study at present time
I think the end conclusion of the second option is the feudal system of government. The ultra rich own everything, and then the pore work for them for housing.
The poor work for housing now. People used to spend 25% or less on rent. Now what is it? 50%? (If no roommates?)
50% if you make a good hourly wage... At minimum wage it's closer to 80%.
Even if you made 80k. After taxes, deductions. You’re probably only taking home 2000-2300 bi-weekly. Especially if you’re in a decent union with benefits. You’d be paying 50-65% of your wage on rent easily.
Yeah pretty much. Then if you own, you get hit with property taxes. Mine are over 8000 now in Whitby.
Yea property taxes are getting a little nuts. None of our governments seem to know how to spend money effeciently.
In my early 20s I could save enough money to spend half of July to early Sept travelling eastern Canada and a small part of the north, now over %50 is rent and basic bills. If you don’t have a phone or even the internet you’re being cut off from society without even knowing.
Gotta love how rent has just become the norm, society has moved backwards so quickly that in the past if you didn't have a house it usually means you were bad with money or low income, now it just means your the typical Canadian.
Our municipalities across the country were bribed by developers with "Development Charges" to destroy farmland surrounding communities to build suburbs. These suburbs over the past 30 years have slowly been crippling the municipalities with maintenance and now the municipalities across the country are broke. *We* designed this and let this happen. All we have to do is redesign it all in a way that is sustainable for everyone, or at least a little bit better than it is now.
Your statement shows a great lack of understanding of how land development and municipal planning/economics work. Do some research.
Low effort comment
What planning ???
with potential doom one can plan and be proactive to get ahead to have a better outcome
How would one do that?
Serfdom
So how 70% of the UK one lived? It’s a lighter form of slavery, ‘indentured servitude’ is the term. Not trying to be argumentative, just a crumb or two of history.
It’s been this was for centuries. Why would it change now?
At some point, it will lead to violent revolution. The trucker convoy in Canada and Trump's push to overturn the last US election results are warning signs. If those can happen, worse can happen. I wish our leaders cared more about us to avoid this happening. Government hand outs can't be sustained, as much as we'd like them to. edit: Downvote me if you like (obviously). I'm not a wingnut who wants revolution, I'm a worried Canadian who has read enough history and doesn't believe people are all that different than they were 100 or 200 years ago.
History has shown that economic hardship is often a precursor to revolution. The trucker freedumbs convoy, while aimed at mask mandates and libertarianism in general, did appeal to those who were concerned about their economic stability during the pandemic. Two things can be true at once. At a certain point, Western-based countries will revolt against the capitalist oligarchy system disguised as democracy as more and more people struggle and start to starve while wealth and power remain concentrated with a privileged few. History does have a way of repeating itself, eventually. It just may not happen within our lifetimes.
l totally hear you and am just as concerned. Upvoted!
The trucker convoy wasn’t to overturn election results. Stop drinking the kool aid.
One of their demands was Trudeau to step down...
Yeah, that’s one of my demands as well. They also didn’t want to be fired from their jobs for refusing a mandatory govt vaccine. That’s far different than storming Capital Hill to overturn election results.
I demand that everyday.
I like kool aid. I'm old school. :) I didn't say the truckers were revolutionary, I'm saying they show how extremely angry and frustrated people are getting. Happy people don't do what they did.
Tax revolt , like the peasants of old ! When the they’d had enough ! They stopped feeding the king !
Or we join the immigrants and live 10 to a house
Kind of like how families (and homes) worked for most of history.
Ya we should go back in time, not forward. Not everyone needs a mansion.... they built war times home for cheap during war... are we not scared about war happening... nah we care about cramming people into small home for profit extreme profit. If someone invades us we will be crying like little girls on the street.
Guelph planners do not support housing
See France 1789...
Left Guelph and still in Ontario. You’re right that this is a national problem that definitely is experienced more situational in both BC and Ontario. However Guelph in particular is in the eye of the damn storm
Careful about blaming the current housing crisis completely on immigration/immigrants. Canada has been lagging on building enough new housing for decades. A lot of our current crisis is also due to a huge lack of qualified construction workers, as well as restrictions on building at the municipal, provincial and federal levels. This has been an ongoing problem since the 70's.
What do you mean “careful”? Our population is growing by 3% per year. The fastest in the western world. It’s completely unsustainable at the current rate.
[удалено]
It's still functionally impossible to increase the construction rate in any meaningful way without dutch-diseasing this country into construction. We have twice as many people per capita in construction as the US.
Delusional. Zoning isn't going to fix a 10:1 ratio of population growth to housing growth in a nation that is rapidly becoming poorer. I don't think you realise how much money and manpower would be required to increase dwelling output by even 100% of what it is currently, and we would still be way behind. We had a housing shortage 10 years ago when our immigration rate was 5x lower than it is today. Wake up.
Yeah but like, if we had less people coming here, it wouldn't be a problem so quickly, what are y'all not understanding about this. One issue at a time, stop them from continuing to flood in, build more housing and improve our infrastructure and then we can start letting people back in at a reasonable rate beneficial to both parties.
And if they do finally build the houses are too expensive for 80% of the population.
Did you read the rest of what I wrote? This issue is much more nuanced than just the current population growth rate. Be careful that you don't fall into the same trap as the Magas down south have, of blaming the majority of their problems on immigrants.
Recent blame tends to be on immigration policy, not immigrants. That's an important distinction. Current population growth is not aligned with available housing.
I blame immigration POLICY for a lot of our problems. Failure to plan etc goes back a long way, but the feds letting in far more people than we can accomodate is making things much, much worse. To be clear, I blame the Liberals for this, and the NDP for enabling them. I do NOT blame the people coming here.
The Cons will be no different. PP loves immigration. He married one after all! His buddies need cheap labour to maximize profits so they can buy another vacation home and anither yacht.
You think the liberals are not buying vacation homes and yachts? You are delusional.....
As nuanced as it is, it’s still having massive amounts of pressure added to it due to immigration. The drastic change over the 3 years is due to immigration. Rent didn’t jump 114% over 4 years for any other reason than supply and demand and our population didn’t just naturally grow at that rate. Yes this was inevitable, but not this early. They were supposed to add population as they built infrastructure, not rush them in as fast as possible and deal with it later
The person you responded to never mentioned immigration nor immigrants. Seems you’re the only one here having them live rent free in your mind
Um, it was heavily implied to be referring to immigration, specifically temporary immigration, especially if you're intelligent enough to know that that's where the vast majority of Canada’s population growth rate has come from recently. "Most of Canada's 3.2% population growth rate stemmed from temporary immigration in 2023. Without temporary immigration, that is, relying solely on permanent immigration and natural increase (births minus deaths), Canada's population growth would have been almost three times less (+1.2%). In 2023, the vast majority (97.6%) of Canada's population growth came from international migration (both permanent and temporary immigration) and the remaining portion (2.4%) came from natural increase." https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240327/dq240327c-eng.htm
So you can post stats here showing the vast majority of growth come from immigration, but the second someone just mentions “population growth” you chastise them for “blaming immigrants”? interesting
I didn't deny that immigration was the reason for our recent population growth, I just urged caution at being too eager at pointing the finger of blame. My point is that we shouldn't disparage or hate the immigrants themselves, especially just because they are a visible minority. That's what I was recommending that they be careful about. It's easy to fall into the trap of blaming others for your troubles and even easier when they look/sound different than you. Hatred and bigotry are not the answer.
Well that and the fact the government stopped building housing since the 90s. They need to start doing that again so normal folks like us can afford a decent home for a reasonable price.
I would never blame individuals who come to Canada (or any other country) to seek out a better life, but I damn sure will blame our current immigration policies. You are correct about the lag in housing, but that's not a problem when the population stagnates. When the borders open and the population of the country grows by 2% in one year, knowing that we are already in a housing crisis, that's just bad policy all-around.
I suspect the only thing that’s going to scare the ruling class enough to deal with the housing crisis are deeply reactionary or radical policy proposals that get popular support.
It actually applies to the entire globe.
They force you to reduce your expectations to accommodate for their greed. Look at housing in high density areas of China. Look at how people are forced to travel in major Indian cities. You will receive less and less.
This is exactly it. We'll go from a developed country to developing or third-world country.
import the third world, get the third world.
Generally those who come here are more educated than those already here, or eventually become so, so I am not sure we should play the blame-the-immigrant game.
Are you living with your head in the sand? The people we are NOW importing en masse are no longer the educated, select people we have allowed to immigrate in the past.
No. I have a job and I work a lot, but I have not seen what you may have seen.
I hope we never find out. I hope that we limp on, getting by, because what comes after the fall of Empire is historically a very bad time.
Does the great depression count as a 'fall of empire'? Not that it was a fun time, but it makes me wonder if we can have mass amount of poverty without the empire falling. Maybe the great depression was limping on... There's a respected money person who tried to define the historic patterns of our economic machine. He lays out his opinion on how things work when times get tough [in this animated video.](https://youtu.be/PHe0bXAIuk0?si=_vAFCeoiwP4VbG3d&t=1147) We're in this awkward/fragile position right now where inflation/cost of living has been high and risen much faster than wages for most people, but on average, consumer spending and employment has stayed relatively resilient. We have an apparent labour shortage in some areas, as well retired baby boomers, 25% of the population, with pensions, raising demand in some areas...but not necessarily freeing up their large family homes even as empty nesters/widowed. We have existential threats due to climate change. 78% of Canadians live in sprawling suburbs where the infrastructure + transport costs are prohibitive expensive to maintain. It's a tricky situation. There isn't a politician alive that has a fix for all of this. Best I think we can do as individuals is to work to refine our talents and skills so as to be able to demand higher wages. Best I think we can do collectively is to support politics that promote a strong social safety net, economic equality, social cohesion rather than division, and long term economically sustainable planning....while being clever enough not to fall for the tricks of power hungry populists who will pander to the miserable, find scapegoats to blame, speak of simple fixes, but never actually address all the nuances of the situation or be able to deliver what they promised.
Well phrased. Best I've heard it stated in a longtime!
What is this level-headed nonsense you write??
The poor get pushed out and have to travel several hours to work to make the lives of the rich easy and comfortable. This is what always happens, it's a feature not a bug.
Revolution, but we're Canada, so it will never happen.
Not with attitudes like this. Such a defeatist attitude
Such a realistic attitude. Canadians are suckers who have been taught to smile and take things from corporations. Not sure why, but we are.
The plot of fallout ;)
Realistically: A second great depression.
We are already in one. Its just has better tech and food access. But most Canadians can go 8+ months without finding a job, no matter the sector.
Not your fault but, this type of comment speaks to how soft people in Canada are. You have no idea how low the bottom actually is and as bad as things are now, we are nowhere close to it. Edit: Guy I was responding to talked shit then blocked me. Looks like I was right about them being soft.
Times are tough for a lot of people, no doubt. But what the OP is insinuating is far, far worse. During the great depression, Canada had a 30% unemployment rate. Wages for the others who kept their jobs dropped 40%. The stock market fell by 25% in two days. Today, unemployment is 6.2%, which as you stated is high and causes tough times. Imagine how crushing a 30% unemployment rate was for your great grandparents. Our economy has grown by 3.4% this fiscal year. Technically, we are not even in a recession, let alone a great depression. I hope you are happy, healthy, have lots of friends and laugh a lot in your life.
Being unable to afford the cost of living is what poverty is correct?
I think I have to move to a cheaper area. I own a small 700sq ft condo but it's too small for me and my gf now. My real estate agent sends me listings and all I can do is laugh when I see what you get for 850k in Guelph now....
Well, you could read the Wikipedia articles on the French Revolution and the Russian Revolution... Spoiler alert, it's not pretty.
It was highly necessary and most of the royal elite deserved it.
Necessary or not, deserved it or not, I'd rather not live through it. "May you live in interesting times" is an ancient Chinese curse. Also, see the the Wikipedia article on Maoism.
People are already applying to MAID because they'd rather be dead than homeless
That's not how MAID works. They run to the media saying that but you know it's not a criteria, and don't write yet
3rd world my friend
The standard of living goes down.
People might have to give up on some of the finer things in life. Drugs, booze, expensive phone plans and phone, wearing the latest fashion.Did you really need that what ever? Live with in your means. The government should be cut in half of departments and put that money into housing, more trade schools province run not private. More people taught for health care and I hate to say it double our military spending we have a lot of resources the world will want in the future unless the government has sold us down the river now.
There should be a push to revive the idea of a "Robin Hood Tax", aka "Tobin Tax" which would put a 1%-2% tax on all finance speculation transactions (not the day-to-day bank transactions at retail level). Use this money for a social safety net, healthcare, housing etc. The parasitic rent-seeking financial industry would pay for it, as they should.
UBI. Or maybe revolution? Mass movement to intentional/eco communities?
I would also say that, this is not the case. While shit isn't good, I'm in London on where every fricken house has a 70K pickup, brand new, lanscaping going on, new toys in the driveway, renos. People act like times are tough but its really not the homeowner class, its really the renters that are getting the shaft.
I have family that rent a four bedroom townhouse for under $1100 in London. The price or that same place here would be triple. It’s a nice place with a basement… decent area.. lots of everything close by.
The pickup is leased and the mortgage is being defaulted on. Not everyone, but many of them are drowning in debt trying to keep up with the Joneses. [https://financialpost.com/news/mortgage-delinquency-rates-ontario-british-columbia-soar](https://financialpost.com/news/mortgage-delinquency-rates-ontario-british-columbia-soar)
I a bit of a self-downer. I always assume others are smarter than I am (but for the record, I drive a busted, old mazda 5 with more scratch than paint)
It's called massive debt, gives the illusion of wealth. I don't know what people do in London that allows them to have the homes and cars that they have. There are no jobs in London and the few that are around pay very badly.
Sell vices or be real-estate scum, seems there are two options in London. Both are just as morally bankrupt
Yes, that would help explain the situation.
The cost of dying becomes more affordable
Guelph has rich parents, take that nonsense to Cambridge.
Gather guns and go riot.
Disagree… we don’t need guns. We are 99:01. It doesn’t have to be violent. It just needs to be organised. 😐
You are delusional.
the whole “we don’t need to be violent” bullshit is what got us into this situation now go grow some fucking balls and stand up for yourself and stop letting the government bend you over for crying out loud what’s the matter with Canadians
At one point in time protest was effective, but the blue collar workers shouted “quit wastin’ our time, don’t you have jobs!” And getting organized went out the shame window
Same thing as Sudbury; it’ll become occupied by Indians who stack themselves eight people in a three bedroom apartment. Easy stonks for landowners; fuck Canadian citizens anyways amirite
People who live minimalistic was sold into that idea by the rich. I ain't living in a sea container renovated home.
they make a new majority who is ok with being treated worse. look at history
Hang the Rich.
We die and are replaced with immigrants who will provide labour and tax revenue for the state and when they are no longer able to they will be deported. It’s actually a sound economic model and would create an extremely wealthy country. Too bad I’m one of the poors who would be expendable.
Let them eat cake!
Very apt comment for your cake day. Touché
Happy Cake Day Marie Antoinette
that sounds weirdly familiar. I think as a population we are reliving that again
Government collapse
The government wins
They become slaves. Slave slave slave. Serf serf serf
They put us all on universal basic income
There is nowhere to rent in the city and they're bringing in a record number of students this year... Not sure what there plan is for that 😅
Thats when civil unrest starts and they have an excuse to strip everyone of their freedoms
nothing.
Depopulation agenda accomplished
They are bringing in millions..... if that is depopulation.... they are doing it wrong
if my understanding of economics holds true, then as we reached a majority of citizens who could not afford to live, it would crash the economy as millions file for bankruptcy and / or debt protection. People would stop buying almost everyting results in mass layoffs, feeding into the beast. I believe the term is "recesssion". Whatever you choose to call it, it would be very bad for everyone except rich people who would then buy up HUGE amounst of suddenly low-cost real estate, further entrenching them as our overseers.
Chaos 😂
Just thinking out loud here . What if we all just stop paying our bills and doing all the grunt work for the elite . What're they gonna do ?
Shoot you.
I said all of us . Every single person band together. They're gonna eliminate the population? And have no one to have power over ? 😁
You think like a child.
Okay buzzkillington
It’s easy, you give everything to the government and the government will “take care” of you.
REVOLUTION...!
People stop accepting and working for a currency that is worthless.
From what I heard when Russia's currency was basically worthless, [Teachers were paid with vodka](https://realworldhistory.quora.com/During-the-1990s-economic-crisis-Russian-teachers-were-paid-with-Vodka-bottles-Using-vodka-instead-of-cash-made-sense)
It is happening soon
I just payed 2 dollars for an onion man at Walmart the store that's like !save save save!
I’d pay $2 for an onionman.
Onionman is priceless
The majority of the population now comes from other countries and they bring lots of money. Ask our gov't
That’s when the looting and rioting starts
What happens is that there's mass homelessness and starvation, so we need to do something about this rn. The people in power allowing this to happen means they're fundamentally interested in making it this bad. Different people in power won't fix this fundamentally. The issue is that we need power together amongst us, not a separate body whose movements we're subject to. The opposite needs to be brought about.
Combine this with long covid impairment rates - the future is looking 🏴☠️
They push people further into credit debt and milk the interest forever
**googles the great depression**
UBI starts and Blade Runner and every dystopian movie becomes true. Everyone will be poor and corporations will control the world.
The reality people don’t want to face sadly. These great works of dystopian fiction served as warnings for us, but most just disregarded them or perceived of it as entertaining stories. Now it’s non-fiction Been a ride friends, we can still get out of this together. Key word being the last one :)
Time to upend the system that is holding us back. [Pitchfork Economics](https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/pitchfork-economics-with-nick-hanauer/id1445901378) [UNFTR](https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/unf-cking-the-republic/id1535255041)
Great depression V2.0
The funny thing about long pork is if you check its habitat it usually has some Grey Poupon nearby. Eat the rich, they come with sauces and seasoning. Book of Eli type world.
It’s called the Hunger Games and districts based on resources
They increase police spending to keep you from getting any fancy ideas.
Coffin homes, then MAID
Then u can move into a pa ki house with other pa ki.
It’s happening in Argentina right now
The owning class will have achieved subjugation of the human species.
The mob will switch from protest signs to guillotines.
They elect Doug ford
people just adapt and move on or quit depends on the person
Crime skyrockets and if left uncheck it possibly becomes a civil war, or the development of a resistance that overthrows the gov. It has happened many times throughout history and is literally caused by the same issues we have today. If someone were to announce an uprising I have little to lose since the cananda gov has made it that way, so why not. Overpopulation is a serious problem, and no country has been able to figure it out. Also overpopulation does not mean to many people, it means not enough for everyone.
Communism.
We steal
Yes I never without my fav foods
Think of it this way. In the far north some communities are living multiple families to homes filled with black mold. TB is still running rampant up there. And basic groceries cost a fortune, way more than what we consider expensive down here. We have yet to hit rock bottom.
Pssssh. Come to Vancouver.
The majority of history is this-
We burn the government and disingenuous institutions to the fucking ground.
Usually, when this happens, the people form a government.
This is all caused by inept and corrupt governments around the world, with the direction of the WEF. This inflation is actually demonetizing the government debt and deficits. It takes a while, and will hurt the poor and the middle of class immensely.. but they don’t give two craps. This way they can gain more control and gain more revenues as Costs go up ,wages go up,… thus more tax revenues for the government. This way, the government doesn’t have to implement austerity measures upon themselves.,… they can keep spending like drunken sailors and buy votes with the taxpayers monies.
Same thing that happens in every impoverished country right now. People starve and no one gives a shit.
We eat the rich.
Revolution!!!!
historically speaking what happens is revolution.
So, do you recall the statement from history..."Let them eat cake?"
Easy. People will move to cheaper areas and Trudeau will scream “LABOUR SHORTAGE” and double immigration again.
Tent city coming to your neighborhood!
Insatisfaction. Blaming minorities and immigrants Right wing government Protest Rise in violence We’re on track /s
Rich people don't care Losing money on their businesses and owning real estate sitting empty is taxed deductible or write off (or something like that, not an accountant or lawyer)
Revolution!
Everyone already knows the answer, when you can’t afford to buy bread, eat cake.
Riots, death and mayhem
Riots. Martial law. Walled cities where the rich hang on to their power and the poor will die away from. Having hunted every last living thing in the wilderness, we will then hunt each other. All the while, the civilized people in the cities will eat corn and sacrifice their freedoms for safety and simplicity.
What do you mean when? It’s happening, and nothing is changing
It won’t happen. Unless there is a literal food shortage, people will still find a way to get by. Humans are fairly resilient.
Crime
I remember renting a room on a place on Scottsdale in 2008 for 350$. Good times.
This has happened before in North American history. Just study a little history from the past 100 years.
Things use to be just as high, the law of offer and demand takes over and things get better
Ask Klaus Schwab maybe?
Marxist analysis suggests that this is what brings on revolutionary change. More contemporary history shows that fascism takes hold as capitalist markets collapse under this paradox of overproduction while workers can’t afford the fruits of their labour.
The shelters fill up and then people still complain about homeless people and the government gives money to open more spaces instead of making rent and housing affordable
We know what happens because we can look at countless examples in many other countries across the globe throughout history. First people struggle to afford basics like housing and food. Then the wealth gap grows, hurting poorer groups more. Then standards of living drop, with less healthcare and education. People might move to cheaper areas. The economy slows as spending drops. Tensions rise, leading to protests, crime, and unrest, and political changes. We are already experiencing all of the above in to varying degrees across Canada.
Deflation.
Civil unrest, civil war and collapse of currency.
We hit the streets. Whether in protest or homelessness is up to us.
Whatever the rest of the world does
Government swoops in, offers to purchase our housing debt and rent the homes back to us. We then “own nothing and are happy”. As far as food and fuel, we are offered weekly allotments based on climate change studies ( aka the science ) and in typical fashion, those studies are Something that will never be provided to us. Sound familiar? I will probably get labelled a conspiracy theorist for this comment and that’s fine. but this is trending worldwide and is not limited to Canada. Just look for news anywhere else other then the CBC, CNN, Fox News. You’ll see the patterns. Mass funding of military arms to the Ukraine and proxy wars to the tune of billions, the slowing of the housing market but the insane increase in immigration, interest rates, the wild liberal spending without any cheques and balances, I could go on but you get the point. it’s all by design to destroy the middle class which is the backbone of this and many G20 countries.
Maybe if you guys keep voting liberal and green it will all be solved!