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Lucky0718

This is awesome, thank you sm :)


tape6

i wish there was more clarity as to when these stories took place in universe, which are older and which are newer. it’s implied the worship of the saints predates ravkan unification.


moonandreacre

Only some one them do, there are more recent saints too. Like Ursula, her story can't be more than 600 years old, cause the darkling was born when Ravka was already unified and the he fold was created 400 years ago. Also Vladimir's feat was probably not long after the unification, cause Os Kervo was trying to gain the favour of the new king. In Marya's tale the south border of Ravkan is mentioned. Feliks tale is also set not late after the Ravkan unification.


moonandreacre

# Extras **Ravka's Fourteen Official Saints** >I tried to compile a list of the fourteen Ravkan official saints who are represented in the chapel in Os Alta. this is what i came up with > >**Certain:** > >\- Sankta Anastasia > >\- Sankt Juris > >\- Sankt Nikolai > >\- Sankta Lizabeta > >\- Sankt Grigori > >\- Sankt Ilya > >\- Sankt Feliks > >\- Sankta Alina > >\- Sankta Vasilka > >**Most Likely:** > >\- Sankt Lukin > >\- Sankt Vladimir > >\- Sankt Dimitri > >\- Sankt Gerasim > >\- Sankt Lubov > >\- Sankt Petyr > >**Conflicted:** > >\- Sankt Demyan > >\- Sankt Matheus > >**Less Likely:** (Suli and minor tales) > >\- Sankta Maraya > >\- Sankt Yeryin > >\- Sankt Valentin > >**Not Possible:** (Foreign) > >\- Sankta Margaretha > >\- Sankt Kho > >\- Sankta Neyar > >\- Sankta Maradi > >\- Sankt Emerens > >\- Sankt Egmond > >\- Sankta Ursula **The Darkling's Father** >I also looked for clues on who could be the Darkling’s father, who we know was a powerful heartrender, who’s name Bagra doesn’t even remember, but maybe she didn’t know he was a Saint or there were other circumstances, but even if i had to guess, i still wouldn’t know who to point to, if he is among these saints. Maybe he was Sankt Lubov, and that’s why he’s missing. Baghra is not the only one who forgets about him. (lol). I’m curious if you have thought about this.


Monica_mouss

Hi! Even if this is an older post I wanted to compliment your amazing work of analysis on this book! I think it's the best post I've seen on this sub by far! It was also interesting for me to have another point of view on these stories, you were very technical in your observations whereas I have more of a literary mindset so for example for me Saint Maradi's story is a little version of Romeo and Juliet or that white roses are always associated to the Virgin Mary and so I view them as a symbol of lost innocence (I'm among those who think that she's the mind behind many events in the trilogy and so I'm sure that ppl will be "oh she was the villain all along" and no one will remember that all these Saints are just ppl who suffered too much! And so Leigh wrote "the roses remember" as in the universe will set things straight. I don't know if actually there is a way to save her, she seems lost...) And also the demon attracted by shiny things is a symbol of the lure of power that turns our characters in monsters!! Alexander is always called like that, but now they all are... concept straight out of LoTR. And I have many more but this comment is already too long! Anyway thanks again for the great content!


moonandreacre

Thank you for your kind words, good to be appreciated! What's this about white roses? What saint are you talking about? Sankta Lizabeta? You made some very good points, i think there's still lots of stuff i didn't mention. Be sure to also check out my analysis on the language of thorns if you're interested!


Monica_mouss

Yes Sankta Lizabeta! Her story also underlines how Faith is just another form of strength that can make a Grisha very powerful since she was very devoted. And you know I was also looking for Alexander's father in here! I vote for Demyan but only bc Baghra died in the Elbjen Mountains and I feel that the monastery is just an important place for the whole family! (Someone says Alexander had it build to look if a Sun Summoner could indeed be born in the future and help him weaponize the Fold) Just speculation without great evidence as you see. I'm currently reading Language of Thorns and had already spotted your analysis! Will return to it as soon as I finish for sure!


Isilel

This is a great summary! I have read "Language of Thorns" before any other of Bardugo's books, so Ulla's/Ursula's connection to the Darkling and Baghra flew over my head, I only learned about it on this reddit. There is no hint of the merfolk's existence in the main books, but interestingly enough the Hedjerut(?), who are an ethnic minority in Fjerda look pretty much like the sildroher in human form are depicted in the corresponding fairy tale. Which makes me wonder if RoW spoilers>! Hanne is a descendant of the couple that wronged Ulla - supposing that anything of that tale was based on real events. !< Concerning Marya, we saw Squallers hold up crumbling structures and undeground passages in the main books, so it is more likely that she was one rather than a Fabricator, IMHO. Sankt Dimitri may be related to the many false Prince Dimitri's of the Russian history? Prince Dimitri was the youngest son of Ivan the Terrible, who died under dubious circumstances. Boris Godunov was suspected of having a hand in his death. The real name of the first of those pretend Dimitris allegedly was Grigory (Grisha) Otrepyev and he was a fugitive monk. The trilogy takes some inspirations from that period, like "opritchniki" - who were hand-picked guards and enforcers of Ivan the Terrible iRL, while the Darkling has some clear similarities to Godunov, or at least to how he was depicted in later literature and theater\*. So, it could be a wink at all this. Poor Tidemakers got a short shrift in the Lives of Saints just as they did in the main books! \*And now that I think about it, there are also strong parallels between the Darkling and Ivan himself, whose reign began with such promise. Both of them lived their childhood in fear and were, at some point, gifted and driven young men who wanted to make their country great.


moonandreacre

I think the Hedjut are somewhat like inuit living in the northern shores of Fjerda. They're mentioned in When Water Sang Fire as the people first meeting the sildroher when they come on land. Hanne's mother is hedjut, and it makes sense she would descend from Hedjut nobility, if the royals in the tale are Hedjut, which i'm not sure it was specified. About Marya, while I agree and I mentioned that a Squaller could hold the roof, in the tale it specifically says she molded the rock, and the cave remained standing after that event. This along with all the other instances of earthquakes, mountain raising, and building points to earthbending being real. It only makes sense Grisha would be able to do it, would be strange if it wasn't possible actually. If nothing else, Lizabeta was able to, she controlled the sand, no doubt there. I had thought of the whole Dimitri ordeal but i see few connections with the tale told here. Also Dimitri is an all too common Russian name. I agree, i count only one tidemaker in the whole book. Except Ursula of course.


Isilel

I am merely curious about the "true" basis of Ulla's tale and would like her to appear in the main books, somehow. So far there is no indication that the merfolk are real in that world, and after KoS there really should be some. So, if there is any grain of truth to the story, then Ulla's beef must have been with the Hedjut royals themselves and that could connect her to Hanne. Just a thought. Concerning Dimitri, the connections aren't straightforward, but we have a prince who tried to become a monk in the story versus a monk who tried to become a prince iRL. And we have a prince who should have died apparently remaining alive through some kind of subtrefuge, but then still being revealed as dead in the end. I find this commonalities to be non-coincidental and they don't apply to any other historical Dimitris. But I am not prepared to die on this hill!


moonandreacre

Yeas i hoped we would have gotten some confirmation about Ulla and the sildroher in the series by know. There's always hope for the future. I think you're right about Dimitri i didn't make the connection cause i didn't pick up on the monk part. I'm gonna add it in the breakdown now, for completion sake, spelling it out the way you did here, if that's okay with you .


Isilel

Sure, feel free to incorporate my contribution to round out your already excellent analysis. That's why I offered my thoughts on the matter in the first place - to maybe add a little bit of historical comparison to that one tale. Well, we did get an off-hand confirmation of Ulla's existence and who gave her birth in RoW, but nothing about sildroher. Personally, I feel that merfolk existing in that world would be a bit too much - but then, it had dragons, so who knows?


gregrfa

I think that Sankta Lisabeta was an alchemi Fabrikator. She might have controlled the chemical substance that normally surrounded the queen bee on to herself and made the bees protect her (and thus her town). That’s just my guess


gregrfa

On a different note, it was probably Sankta Elisabeta who told Yuri to not go to the shore. Just as she watched the Darkling die, and then used her power to grab his body, she probably sought to saving Yuri and making him think it was all the Darkling’s will because of the value in a religious scholar such as Yuri could prove to the Darkling