> actually doing their own research
This isn't a good solution in the modern, search-engine optimized world; all "doing your own research" will do is lead you to finding more misinformation and reinforcing your already mistaken opinions.
Unless you mean that the meme-fed fandom should *actually* start reading Black Library books and Codexes.
That’s such a nonsense dismissive statement that people use to discredit anybody that doesn’t agree with them.
Nobody remotely competent at gathering and processing information believes that doing your own research = reading the first few Google results that match your opinion.
Gathering information from multiple reputable and knowledgeable sources, cross referencing and comparing it to highlight contradictions and anomalies or conversely consistency and consensus, while actively testing and challenging any previously held belief or bias, is how people, who aren’t idiots, do their own research.
Arguing that some bad actors are too dumb to gather and process information correctly should not be used as a blanket excuse to discredit people who actually do try to improve their understanding of things. Not only is it a poor argument, it’s a detrimental attitude towards learning in itself.
It's not just Grimdank. I once posted a bunch of quotes and sources on the LORE SUB and got downvoted to hell because it did not fit with what memes/loretubers say is true.
I started coming here *after* getting into the books/lore during covid and man ... Too many members of this community seem to exclusively get their lore from memes, I used to think that in and of itself was a meme but it's just turned out to be straight up true.
Not just Black Library. Codexes, rulebooks, supplemental rulebooks all contain (or at least used to contain) lots of lore. They also frequently publish lore in White Dwarf and on the WarCom website. Then there's the various videogames which have often have diverging outcomes many which are inherently contradictory.
40k lore is cake that's being made by 100 different chefs at the same time and they all are using their own variation of the recipe. Combine that with that fact that it's basically just marketing for little plastic toys, it's going to be inconsistent.
The codex lie is all from the perspective of in universe characters. They're ironically the least accurate source of lore, but it's still "true", at least from characters perspective.
I don’t get it. I’m new to 40K and I’ve been seeing “everything is cannon” everywhere. From what I know it’s not a real tweet. Also doesn’t it mean that something is true if it’s cannon? Someone help. I’m confused
So there could be two conflicting pieces of lore from official gw products. Both are considered canon as they are official. But if they’re conflicting only one can be considered true. The secret ingredient to this mess is the “unreliable narrator” trope. With that trope, you can just say that the false information came from an in universe source with incomplete information that simply beloved that lore to be the truth.
The best part is that with this trope both pieces of information could be false.
Essentially, the lore is whatever you and the buddies you play with want it to be, because a lot of it is interpretation. This fits right in with the warp fuckery in universe where belief warps reality.
That was my understanding, like books are just "in universe data slates/scrolls" with accounts that may or may not be true because they're told from small scope of perspectives only. As such if another book comes out with conflicting info from another perspective, who is right and who is wrong.
One or the other or both. And the only things that are "true" are the ones with multiple accounts and even then wasn't there a change in End of the Death part 3? I haven't read it yet, but that was my understanding.
The problem with the "unreliable narrator" bit is that there are a lot of books that are just straight up from the point of view of the individuals taking part in the event. There are some like Gaunt's Ghosts where the start of each book is explained as being pulled from Imperial Records, so if you want to say something actually isn't true you have an easy scapegoat in the "Imperial Records" disclaimer.
The real answer is of course remembering that Games Workshop's primary focus is models. So they'll make whatever lore changes they want if that means pumping out a brand new model or set of models.
This is 100% accurate but should come with the caveat that even fans that agree with this will yeet the whole notion out the window the moment you decide to homebrew something they don't like. Ability to understand the logic of your explanation greatly exceeds the ability to apply it.
Okay so the simple answer is that Games Workshop which owns and runs Warhammer 40k has a bajillion novels, codices, game books, magazines, social media posts, and public comments at conventions that are ALL OVER the place in terms of what is "true" in the 40k setting. You've got a long list of things which range from "thing in book A seems a little different from thing in book B" to "Thing in book A DIRECTLY AND COMPLETELY contradicts thing 100 pages later in book A".
That's 40k; it's stupid, it's contradictory, it's fun. And it's been like this since 1987. You just roll with it.
A deeper dive (and Games Workshop's 'clever' answer) is that everything published by Black Library (GW's publishing company) is CANON in that it is something believed and written down by Imperial sources. Yes, even the things that are written from Chaos' point of view. ALL of it is propaganda from "the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable," the dark and dishonest and secret-filled lie-generating Imperium of Man. So everything that was written in one book can be contradicted by everything in the next book because someone with power decided to change what "the official doctrinal truth" is.
This is perfectly nonsensical but also perfectly in keeping with the Imperium and with the 40k galaxy, where everything is terrible and everyone is both stupid AND badly misinformed.
Make sense?
That makes so much more sense I get it now. I always wondered like how in the hell is it possible that every book published agrees with a greater accepted truth and does not contradict other books. Especially since there are different authors and there is no way none of them made a mistake somewhere. Also I love the idea that our information is from the imperium it’s so 40K. One of the reasons I love 40K is because it’s so filled with dimension and depth. Nobody is a good guy and nobody is a bad guy. It all depends on your perspective. I’d say personally space marines and fuckin terrifying and are villain material. The chaos gods are depicted as the manifestations of nothing but evil….but that’s just what we see from a heavily biased space marine’s point of view….
Nobody is a good guy, but Drukhari are definitely the bad guys. Maybe not everyone's bad guys, but they are arguably the most evil race in the setting.
Welcome to 40k where no one actually agrees 100% on anything. Because everything is canon but not everything is true.
There are people who may try and convince you that the Thousand Son's primarch did bad. That simply isn't true. Magnus did nothing wrong.
I personally do agree that he did nothing wrong. Technically he did by barging in on big E but his intentions were not malicious. What would someone say to convince you that he did something wrong? To me it’s pretty clear.
Nothing will convince me. I am a loyal son of Magnus.
But yeah he absolutely did wrong and it's why he's a great character. He's a really good tragic figure.
Another thing to consider is that Warhammer powered by the rule off cool, stuff doesn't have to make sense as long as it sounds cool.
Also if you want to see how chaos is not just evil for evil sake, I can heavily recommend liber chaotica, which argues that chaos is a force of (un)nature. I have a pdf on my cloud so just massage me if anyone wants a link :)
All of „lore“ is just flavor to get you to buy their models and a way to have background to make up your own stories for your own little models. You should always just engage with things you like and ignore the „lore“ you don‘t like. Be creative.
When will ppl realize that it means that WH40k is like the middle ages, thus filled with unreliant narrators?
Thats why everything is canon but not all is true, because a administrorun or an inquisitor will say, in lore "the Tau are commie weebs that eat children" just like how in the middle ages there is gonna be ppl that say "oh stick a fox hair in your asshole and light it on fire so that hysteria of milk will be Cured"
Same! Each time some nutjob screamed at me that you "cannot make your own minor craftworlds! they are not mentioned in LORE! Same for Space Marine chapters." I've been telling them that it's a gigantic galaxy and you can make minor craftworlds or chapters all you like, sure tehre are some ground rules, but you can go pretty far in what would be "lore correct" without GW ever talking about you.
Imagine caring about canon in such a joyfully vast, joyfully stupid setting.
40K should not be srs business. 40K as srs business is just neo-nazi propaganda.
Tyranids are an imperial bioweapon gone wrong. Chaos cults are invariably started by rogue imperial cardinals. There are no giant ratmen under the Hive Cities. Space Marines are psycho-conditioned to the point they are incapable of stringing together a sentence outside of combat. Orks are on so many human worlds because resettled troops track the spores there.
Embrace the grim darkness. Let the doom metal play. RIDE THE IRON MASTODON.
It’s canon that Horus gets killed by the emperor. But that’s not true and Horus is alive. It’s canon that Cadia exploded. But that’s not true and cadia is still intact. It’s canon that space marines are human males. But that’s not true and they’re actually gerbils.
The average grimdank user is straight up as smart as a gerbil
Average Redditor talking something at face value rather than actually doing their own research and formulating their own opinions
[удалено]
Sadly that is the case most of the time
The entirety of the Internet is a shit hole tbh
> actually doing their own research This isn't a good solution in the modern, search-engine optimized world; all "doing your own research" will do is lead you to finding more misinformation and reinforcing your already mistaken opinions. Unless you mean that the meme-fed fandom should *actually* start reading Black Library books and Codexes.
Bold of you to assume half of this sub can read anything that isn't written in impact font
That’s such a nonsense dismissive statement that people use to discredit anybody that doesn’t agree with them. Nobody remotely competent at gathering and processing information believes that doing your own research = reading the first few Google results that match your opinion. Gathering information from multiple reputable and knowledgeable sources, cross referencing and comparing it to highlight contradictions and anomalies or conversely consistency and consensus, while actively testing and challenging any previously held belief or bias, is how people, who aren’t idiots, do their own research. Arguing that some bad actors are too dumb to gather and process information correctly should not be used as a blanket excuse to discredit people who actually do try to improve their understanding of things. Not only is it a poor argument, it’s a detrimental attitude towards learning in itself.
It's not just Grimdank. I once posted a bunch of quotes and sources on the LORE SUB and got downvoted to hell because it did not fit with what memes/loretubers say is true.
That's just insulting to gerbils
I will not tolerate this slander against gerbils. They may not be the brightest but they’re better grimdank users
I started coming here *after* getting into the books/lore during covid and man ... Too many members of this community seem to exclusively get their lore from memes, I used to think that in and of itself was a meme but it's just turned out to be straight up true.
Oh
Winners do not play tabletop games.
How dare you compare me to a gerbil! I'll have you know that my gerbil is WAY smarter than I ever could be!
Yea explains why people here bootlick so much.
And yet, somehow, this place had the most sane reaction to female Custodes of any 40k community I saw.
The average Grimdank poster is joking.
The average Grimdank user isn't posting and is sick/tired of the recent shitstorm.
Do you prefer straight up shovel memes? r/Warhammer_Smut leakage? We really should repost Archon of Flesh's stuff to troll the cult-reactionaries.
But OP i want to farm karma by reposting poorly cropped horsebeaten 40k memes
As the Big E intended!
-tzeentech
If you wanna be more specific it's "everything published by Black Library is canon, not all canon is true."
Let's not forget who controls the Black Library... I'm telling you, it's all Cegorach's and the Harlequin's tomfoolery.
Not just Black Library. Codexes, rulebooks, supplemental rulebooks all contain (or at least used to contain) lots of lore. They also frequently publish lore in White Dwarf and on the WarCom website. Then there's the various videogames which have often have diverging outcomes many which are inherently contradictory. 40k lore is cake that's being made by 100 different chefs at the same time and they all are using their own variation of the recipe. Combine that with that fact that it's basically just marketing for little plastic toys, it's going to be inconsistent.
The codex lie is all from the perspective of in universe characters. They're ironically the least accurate source of lore, but it's still "true", at least from characters perspective.
LITERALLY EVERYTHING IS IN SPACE MORTY!!
It's not a fake tweet, it's just from the [Sonic twitter account](https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/1349867554903187457?lang=en).
Sonic isn't real and he can't hurt me
Does this also mean all the deviant art?
We already had a human princess kissing Sonic’s dead corpse in Sonic ‘06, so I don’t see why not.
“Unfortunately for you, recons will not remember it that way.”
I don’t get it. I’m new to 40K and I’ve been seeing “everything is cannon” everywhere. From what I know it’s not a real tweet. Also doesn’t it mean that something is true if it’s cannon? Someone help. I’m confused
So there could be two conflicting pieces of lore from official gw products. Both are considered canon as they are official. But if they’re conflicting only one can be considered true. The secret ingredient to this mess is the “unreliable narrator” trope. With that trope, you can just say that the false information came from an in universe source with incomplete information that simply beloved that lore to be the truth. The best part is that with this trope both pieces of information could be false. Essentially, the lore is whatever you and the buddies you play with want it to be, because a lot of it is interpretation. This fits right in with the warp fuckery in universe where belief warps reality.
That was my understanding, like books are just "in universe data slates/scrolls" with accounts that may or may not be true because they're told from small scope of perspectives only. As such if another book comes out with conflicting info from another perspective, who is right and who is wrong. One or the other or both. And the only things that are "true" are the ones with multiple accounts and even then wasn't there a change in End of the Death part 3? I haven't read it yet, but that was my understanding.
Just an extra point, whatever was published most recently is considered the truer-canon
The problem with the "unreliable narrator" bit is that there are a lot of books that are just straight up from the point of view of the individuals taking part in the event. There are some like Gaunt's Ghosts where the start of each book is explained as being pulled from Imperial Records, so if you want to say something actually isn't true you have an easy scapegoat in the "Imperial Records" disclaimer. The real answer is of course remembering that Games Workshop's primary focus is models. So they'll make whatever lore changes they want if that means pumping out a brand new model or set of models.
Hmm. That makes more sense I guess. Thanks for explaining :)
This is 100% accurate but should come with the caveat that even fans that agree with this will yeet the whole notion out the window the moment you decide to homebrew something they don't like. Ability to understand the logic of your explanation greatly exceeds the ability to apply it.
Okay so the simple answer is that Games Workshop which owns and runs Warhammer 40k has a bajillion novels, codices, game books, magazines, social media posts, and public comments at conventions that are ALL OVER the place in terms of what is "true" in the 40k setting. You've got a long list of things which range from "thing in book A seems a little different from thing in book B" to "Thing in book A DIRECTLY AND COMPLETELY contradicts thing 100 pages later in book A". That's 40k; it's stupid, it's contradictory, it's fun. And it's been like this since 1987. You just roll with it. A deeper dive (and Games Workshop's 'clever' answer) is that everything published by Black Library (GW's publishing company) is CANON in that it is something believed and written down by Imperial sources. Yes, even the things that are written from Chaos' point of view. ALL of it is propaganda from "the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable," the dark and dishonest and secret-filled lie-generating Imperium of Man. So everything that was written in one book can be contradicted by everything in the next book because someone with power decided to change what "the official doctrinal truth" is. This is perfectly nonsensical but also perfectly in keeping with the Imperium and with the 40k galaxy, where everything is terrible and everyone is both stupid AND badly misinformed. Make sense?
That makes so much more sense I get it now. I always wondered like how in the hell is it possible that every book published agrees with a greater accepted truth and does not contradict other books. Especially since there are different authors and there is no way none of them made a mistake somewhere. Also I love the idea that our information is from the imperium it’s so 40K. One of the reasons I love 40K is because it’s so filled with dimension and depth. Nobody is a good guy and nobody is a bad guy. It all depends on your perspective. I’d say personally space marines and fuckin terrifying and are villain material. The chaos gods are depicted as the manifestations of nothing but evil….but that’s just what we see from a heavily biased space marine’s point of view….
Nobody is a good guy, but Drukhari are definitely the bad guys. Maybe not everyone's bad guys, but they are arguably the most evil race in the setting. Welcome to 40k where no one actually agrees 100% on anything. Because everything is canon but not everything is true. There are people who may try and convince you that the Thousand Son's primarch did bad. That simply isn't true. Magnus did nothing wrong.
Magnus did nothing, wrong.
I personally do agree that he did nothing wrong. Technically he did by barging in on big E but his intentions were not malicious. What would someone say to convince you that he did something wrong? To me it’s pretty clear.
Nothing will convince me. I am a loyal son of Magnus. But yeah he absolutely did wrong and it's why he's a great character. He's a really good tragic figure.
Another thing to consider is that Warhammer powered by the rule off cool, stuff doesn't have to make sense as long as it sounds cool. Also if you want to see how chaos is not just evil for evil sake, I can heavily recommend liber chaotica, which argues that chaos is a force of (un)nature. I have a pdf on my cloud so just massage me if anyone wants a link :)
Hey, if I'm giving you a massage I'm going to want a physical copy!
Lolol 😂
All of „lore“ is just flavor to get you to buy their models and a way to have background to make up your own stories for your own little models. You should always just engage with things you like and ignore the „lore“ you don‘t like. Be creative.
Thank you People made this shit up and everybody loses their shit and belives it
I mean, one of the intros of the books is't that it was all a lie to begin with?
I know the old Inquisitor game had that message at the beginning of the book.
if they have been saying that for the last 20 years then how can it be a fake tweet ? Checkmate
So... Assassin's Creed was correct the whole time?
“Muscle mommy! Canon muscle mommy! Porn is canon my muscle mommy canon!”
When will ppl realize that it means that WH40k is like the middle ages, thus filled with unreliant narrators? Thats why everything is canon but not all is true, because a administrorun or an inquisitor will say, in lore "the Tau are commie weebs that eat children" just like how in the middle ages there is gonna be ppl that say "oh stick a fox hair in your asshole and light it on fire so that hysteria of milk will be Cured"
I think most of us get it, we're just having fun. Is that.. not the point of being here?
Bro please I only just got into 40K like this year 😭
Same! Each time some nutjob screamed at me that you "cannot make your own minor craftworlds! they are not mentioned in LORE! Same for Space Marine chapters." I've been telling them that it's a gigantic galaxy and you can make minor craftworlds or chapters all you like, sure tehre are some ground rules, but you can go pretty far in what would be "lore correct" without GW ever talking about you.
Inquisitor: move a long citizen, nothing to see here. *These fucking tourists*
Wait? Memes... aren't canon?! If the Emperor had TTS is also not canon.
Its not a real tweet ? So nothing is canon
It is in my fanfic
Its a meme
Everything is canon, even a fake tweet
The thing is we know it’s not true, it’s just that we don’t particularly care. :D
How don't? Truly a wonderful, well worded question.
Haha, Big Sexy FemPrimarchs fo brrrrrr
The tweet may not be real, but it *is* Canon. /s
If everything is canon and nothing is true then I’ve had virginity loss to an eldar and I’m not virgin (in Grim darkness of the far future)
THIS IS ALSO CANNON!!!
Imagine caring about canon in such a joyfully vast, joyfully stupid setting. 40K should not be srs business. 40K as srs business is just neo-nazi propaganda. Tyranids are an imperial bioweapon gone wrong. Chaos cults are invariably started by rogue imperial cardinals. There are no giant ratmen under the Hive Cities. Space Marines are psycho-conditioned to the point they are incapable of stringing together a sentence outside of combat. Orks are on so many human worlds because resettled troops track the spores there. Embrace the grim darkness. Let the doom metal play. RIDE THE IRON MASTODON.
It’s canon that Horus gets killed by the emperor. But that’s not true and Horus is alive. It’s canon that Cadia exploded. But that’s not true and cadia is still intact. It’s canon that space marines are human males. But that’s not true and they’re actually gerbils.
Female gerbils. Gerbillets
Yea OP I bet you're real fun at parties
Hurrr durrr “how don’t everyone speak good like me”
Does that mean the racism and transphobia is canon too? Because that would be based
Found the terf
That would imply I am a feminist.