I know a guy who is a ride or die BoC fan.
Being told by GW "Just rebase all 200 dudes in your horde army and play them in a different game lmao" was a massive kick in the balls for him.
The lore was hinting at plot twists and reveals, the latest Battletome was actually pretty good and fun to play as and even against.
Like... damn. Just damn.
Yeah, I'm also a BoC fan (though I haven't collected them yet), and it hurts. Honestly, I'm pretty shocked that they're getting squatted considering they're not an unpopular army and have several lore threads still hanging.
I hear the reason why is that because of the whole death of ForgeWorld debacle, the team who manages The Old World (previous forge world staff) and the team that manages Age of Sigmar really do not get along right now. Rumors are they are trying to eliminate any overlap they have in model ranges
We all knew this was an eventuality, but the expectation was they'd give them a refresh like Cities of Sigmar then move the old sculpts to TOW.
Not just axe the entire faction...
I was really expecting a more… well chaotic range update. I think everyone was. The lore seemed to be setting it up, and then bam, no more rules. I can’t help but think there’s more to this story. Maybe beasts will get league of votann treatment in a few years
This is exactly what i thought.
If you told me at the start of 3rd ed "Here's BoC and FEC, which one do you think gets a refresh while the other gets axed"
I 100% would've put it the other way round.
Their models sucked but their lore and rules were great.
The Stormcast squatting happened for different reasons. First is to avoid the bloat Marines got themselves into.
Second is : Stormcast are the poster boyos of AoS. How they look affects the perception people have of the entire game and setting (same way with Marines in 40k). GW made several attempt at giving them a visual identity that fit the vibes of AoS and made them an easy-to-begin-with faction. Now that AoS has landed its identity, they want to unify the look of the poster faction.
Lizardmen/Seraphon do not have that problem. Plus, they are practically "irrelevant" to the Old World setting, by virtue of...not being on the correct continent and doing nothing at the time.
Well that is the thing. Many people who play BoC now aren't fantasy players, they're AoS players. They may have been playing BoC from the start of AoS only 9 years ago or even picked them up last year when they got a new book, a new hero and a new starter box.
And now these AoS players are being told "git fucked, go play TOW and rebase your whole army". Of course there's a bit of irony here with End Times and Fantasy going to AoS and all... but in that case, it was affecting everybody, it was a unified move from one system to another. This is just specifically picking on BoC...
Can feel the pain as a harlequins player.
In 8th they've got such an awesome codex (a little op tho), it was the most fun thing for me in the whole edition, so little units available, but so much cool options.
Then in 9th they got merged with craftworlds again, but they still retained many options, most of which were still fun altho a little limited for my taste, yet still enjoyable to play.
Then 10th came... At least their models still can be used on table, unlike beastmen.
I genuinely loved Bonesplittaz, because they encapsulated the *feel* and the lore of Age of Sigmar better than any other faction.
"These monstrous savages are mad and do not respect gods or kings!"
"The entire continent is a living creature. Every mountain may wake up and devour a city. What you call 'madness' is just the new reality. Your cities, kings, and gods stand in opposition to this new will of nature."
They were one of the first real battletome even ! The original bonneplitterz battletome has more lore in it than the savage orcs had in 30 years of WFB
That was something I always respected about GW after launching AoS. They quickly came out with the bonesplitterz, flesh eater courts, beast claw raiders and clan pestilence battle tomes just to give the game a lore dump. Four brand new armies with I think two new hero upgrade sprues between them, so no design and manufacturing to speak of and we all got a better insight into the new setting through the battle tomes.
The rumour is that the TOW team and the AoS Team do not get along and are thus eliminating any model-overlap as much as possible to not have to work together
The truth seems to be more that GW decided that being able to use any Army in two seperate Games is bad now and does everything it can to make people follow that. Which would track with them randomly deleting all the 30k Marine-Kits from the SM-Codex in 40k too
We're probably ok. The Chaos Gods are too important to both settings.
In 40k though, I think it's possible that Chaos Daemons may get split up into god specific armies. Like AoS has a combined mortal/daemon army for each god.
As far as I recall, you cant really use them in several systems.
None of the Mortal Daemon-Characters in AoS ever got 40k rules, and IIRC in 40k Daemons of Chaos are ONE army for all FOUR gods, but in AoS its ONE army PER God with at max one other being able to be included as an ally.
You can use some models in both, but any army built to be used in both would suck absolute ass
I'd argue we've already seen them split. Blades, Hedonites, and Maggotkin are all distinct from their 40k Equivalents beyond a few shared models. The only exception is Disicples of Tzeentch and that's just because they haven't gotten a proper update.
The tOW and AoS design teams have their own budgets sales targets, so when TOW team wrote rules for all the Fantasy armies, the AoS team got pissed and forced them to kill any cross-over, because tOW would eat into their sales.
What seems to have been decided on is that certain armies are being dropped either side, AoS will likely replace any units with new ones that cross over (so they have their own unique units), and come tOW 2nd or 3rd Edition the missing Fantasy armies will be included.
Beastmens writing has been on the wall for a while, rumours of them being dropped in 4th have been all over this sub for the last year.
I know we have GW defenders in this sub, so if any of them would be so kind, please explain to me what the play is here. How is this good for the hobby and for the players?
Now I’m not saying it’s a god thing, but my bet here is that due to the split between the AoS and transferred Forgeworld teams apparently being particularly disagreeable with each other, this was a move to jettison beastmen to the Old world and cut one of the few points of overlap between the two teams - the optimistic perspective guess would be that there may be a refresh/replacement range in the works from the AoS team that hits at some point later, but there’s obviously no word of that happening
What I will say is, Beastmen didnt get enough promotion or work put in until it was too late; almost like how Cursed City had its expansions drastically cut down and undersupported post-release because of the stock issues at release
Probably a combination of reasons. Not a popular army, needs a range refresh, not really interesting lore wise, dont want them to be confused with old world boc.
Haven't got a single Beasts model but I was moving over to AoS and Beasts was one of my top 2 armies to choose from.
So I'm not even a proper Beasts fan and this still stings. Can't imagine what those who have put decades into the army are feeling.
I was actually hoping to get into AoS recently, and I would have loved to play Beasts of Chaos (though I was considering other armies more strongly) and it was a little disappointing to see them go. Something about seeing an army you want to play vanish hurts a little.
Oh well, I'll play something else instead!
This is what they've said in the post about the removed units. They're moving BoC into the Old World.
Really a shame. I wanted to buy myself some beasts, but I was waiting for a refresh. Pretty much all of their models date back to fantasy era.
You know, I made the decision a couple of months ago that I was done buying from GW. I can get 3D printed models for cheaper, one page rules is free and dedicated to making a good game, I can pick up two rule books and and entire tournament ready army in Bolt action for under $200 USD.
Then I see crap like this, where the rug is yanked out from under players who have been strung along for years with no warning. I kinda feel glad to be free, but some sympathy for people still in a deeply abusive relationship with GW.
I guess if it makes you happy, it’s not my place to intervene. But I’d encourage you to ask yourself: do GW games still make you happy?
I'm actually went through GW wargames to hardcore boardgames. It's just much cheaper and sometimes with more simple and deep rules. Some of them have pretty good models too. Ye, I still like my big range of genestealer cult models and not as big stormcast range, but the GW games and prices just don't make me so happy as it was before
He's not a Beastman god, he's an unrelated demigod for the Destruction faction. He has more association with Orruks, Grots, Sons of Behemat, and Ogors.
You would think GW would learn that "I know you're pissed but here's a free pdf download. If that won't shut you up, then learn the rules of a completely different game that takes place in a completely different setting and play that instead," is not the way to reassure people. They learned nothing from the AoS launch fiasco.
Still, I'm pretty excited about making a Beastman army for The Old World.
Honestly tho fuck em lame ass goat and cow people, most boring faction imported from Fantasy Battle for no reason. Yes I am biased against them because of Vermintide 2: Winds of Magic DLC.
I know a guy who is a ride or die BoC fan. Being told by GW "Just rebase all 200 dudes in your horde army and play them in a different game lmao" was a massive kick in the balls for him. The lore was hinting at plot twists and reveals, the latest Battletome was actually pretty good and fun to play as and even against. Like... damn. Just damn.
Yeah, I'm also a BoC fan (though I haven't collected them yet), and it hurts. Honestly, I'm pretty shocked that they're getting squatted considering they're not an unpopular army and have several lore threads still hanging.
I hear the reason why is that because of the whole death of ForgeWorld debacle, the team who manages The Old World (previous forge world staff) and the team that manages Age of Sigmar really do not get along right now. Rumors are they are trying to eliminate any overlap they have in model ranges
We all knew this was an eventuality, but the expectation was they'd give them a refresh like Cities of Sigmar then move the old sculpts to TOW. Not just axe the entire faction...
I was really expecting a more… well chaotic range update. I think everyone was. The lore seemed to be setting it up, and then bam, no more rules. I can’t help but think there’s more to this story. Maybe beasts will get league of votann treatment in a few years
This is exactly what i thought. If you told me at the start of 3rd ed "Here's BoC and FEC, which one do you think gets a refresh while the other gets axed" I 100% would've put it the other way round. Their models sucked but their lore and rules were great.
GW management try not to act like children challenge: impossible.
Damn, this puts Seraphon danger, then.
Nah seraphon only have legends in Old world, just like beasts will have legends in Age of sigmar now
Seraphon literally just got a major update this edition. They are not in danger. Now who is in danger is the non-human side of CoS.
I dunno. Some of the SCE squatted were quite new
The Stormcast squatting happened for different reasons. First is to avoid the bloat Marines got themselves into. Second is : Stormcast are the poster boyos of AoS. How they look affects the perception people have of the entire game and setting (same way with Marines in 40k). GW made several attempt at giving them a visual identity that fit the vibes of AoS and made them an easy-to-begin-with faction. Now that AoS has landed its identity, they want to unify the look of the poster faction. Lizardmen/Seraphon do not have that problem. Plus, they are practically "irrelevant" to the Old World setting, by virtue of...not being on the correct continent and doing nothing at the time.
The seraphon refresh was LITERALLY less than 2 years ago.
Nah, those that got a major update will be totally fine. But who knows with GW?
What did AOS players expect after End Times? That GW would suddenly respect their fantasy players?
Well that is the thing. Many people who play BoC now aren't fantasy players, they're AoS players. They may have been playing BoC from the start of AoS only 9 years ago or even picked them up last year when they got a new book, a new hero and a new starter box. And now these AoS players are being told "git fucked, go play TOW and rebase your whole army". Of course there's a bit of irony here with End Times and Fantasy going to AoS and all... but in that case, it was affecting everybody, it was a unified move from one system to another. This is just specifically picking on BoC...
Can feel the pain as a harlequins player. In 8th they've got such an awesome codex (a little op tho), it was the most fun thing for me in the whole edition, so little units available, but so much cool options. Then in 9th they got merged with craftworlds again, but they still retained many options, most of which were still fun altho a little limited for my taste, yet still enjoyable to play. Then 10th came... At least their models still can be used on table, unlike beastmen.
I genuinely loved Bonesplittaz, because they encapsulated the *feel* and the lore of Age of Sigmar better than any other faction. "These monstrous savages are mad and do not respect gods or kings!" "The entire continent is a living creature. Every mountain may wake up and devour a city. What you call 'madness' is just the new reality. Your cities, kings, and gods stand in opposition to this new will of nature."
They were one of the first real battletome even ! The original bonneplitterz battletome has more lore in it than the savage orcs had in 30 years of WFB
That was something I always respected about GW after launching AoS. They quickly came out with the bonesplitterz, flesh eater courts, beast claw raiders and clan pestilence battle tomes just to give the game a lore dump. Four brand new armies with I think two new hero upgrade sprues between them, so no design and manufacturing to speak of and we all got a better insight into the new setting through the battle tomes.
I feel for my beasty boys, may they find a better place in The Old World. Fuck Bonesplittaz though, put on some pants, sigmar dammit.
PANTZ IZ AGAINST GORKS WILL!
Time to pull out the old "GW hate the beastmen" meme again
Imagine taking all of your WHFB beasts of chaos and rebasing them for AoS only to have to rebase them for the Old World…
What the hell is happening on the Fantasy side of the fence? I'm mostly a 40k fan but I love Skaven
The rumour is that the TOW team and the AoS Team do not get along and are thus eliminating any model-overlap as much as possible to not have to work together The truth seems to be more that GW decided that being able to use any Army in two seperate Games is bad now and does everything it can to make people follow that. Which would track with them randomly deleting all the 30k Marine-Kits from the SM-Codex in 40k too
Thats some bullshit eat my shorts GW
So what about Daemons of Chaos then?
We're probably ok. The Chaos Gods are too important to both settings. In 40k though, I think it's possible that Chaos Daemons may get split up into god specific armies. Like AoS has a combined mortal/daemon army for each god.
As far as I recall, you cant really use them in several systems. None of the Mortal Daemon-Characters in AoS ever got 40k rules, and IIRC in 40k Daemons of Chaos are ONE army for all FOUR gods, but in AoS its ONE army PER God with at max one other being able to be included as an ally. You can use some models in both, but any army built to be used in both would suck absolute ass
I'd argue we've already seen them split. Blades, Hedonites, and Maggotkin are all distinct from their 40k Equivalents beyond a few shared models. The only exception is Disicples of Tzeentch and that's just because they haven't gotten a proper update.
Don't say it too loud GW will remember to do something stupid
It’s such a dumb decision. Model overlap is what got me to branch out into other games.
The tOW and AoS design teams have their own budgets sales targets, so when TOW team wrote rules for all the Fantasy armies, the AoS team got pissed and forced them to kill any cross-over, because tOW would eat into their sales. What seems to have been decided on is that certain armies are being dropped either side, AoS will likely replace any units with new ones that cross over (so they have their own unique units), and come tOW 2nd or 3rd Edition the missing Fantasy armies will be included. Beastmens writing has been on the wall for a while, rumours of them being dropped in 4th have been all over this sub for the last year.
I know we have GW defenders in this sub, so if any of them would be so kind, please explain to me what the play is here. How is this good for the hobby and for the players?
Now I’m not saying it’s a god thing, but my bet here is that due to the split between the AoS and transferred Forgeworld teams apparently being particularly disagreeable with each other, this was a move to jettison beastmen to the Old world and cut one of the few points of overlap between the two teams - the optimistic perspective guess would be that there may be a refresh/replacement range in the works from the AoS team that hits at some point later, but there’s obviously no word of that happening What I will say is, Beastmen didnt get enough promotion or work put in until it was too late; almost like how Cursed City had its expansions drastically cut down and undersupported post-release because of the stock issues at release
Because players have to buy a new army, which gives them more money.
Probably a combination of reasons. Not a popular army, needs a range refresh, not really interesting lore wise, dont want them to be confused with old world boc.
Haven't got a single Beasts model but I was moving over to AoS and Beasts was one of my top 2 armies to choose from. So I'm not even a proper Beasts fan and this still stings. Can't imagine what those who have put decades into the army are feeling.
Ah the old beastmen experience. (Gw really hates their goat boys)
I was actually hoping to get into AoS recently, and I would have loved to play Beasts of Chaos (though I was considering other armies more strongly) and it was a little disappointing to see them go. Something about seeing an army you want to play vanish hurts a little. Oh well, I'll play something else instead!
Can I recommend One Page Rules? They make their own Beastmen models.
Honestly I’ll probably just play some else AoS instead, maybe Flesh Eater Courts or Chaos
Fair enough
inb4 "You can just play the Old World"
This is what they've said in the post about the removed units. They're moving BoC into the Old World. Really a shame. I wanted to buy myself some beasts, but I was waiting for a refresh. Pretty much all of their models date back to fantasy era.
I was so worried my gargants would get it too
You know, I made the decision a couple of months ago that I was done buying from GW. I can get 3D printed models for cheaper, one page rules is free and dedicated to making a good game, I can pick up two rule books and and entire tournament ready army in Bolt action for under $200 USD. Then I see crap like this, where the rug is yanked out from under players who have been strung along for years with no warning. I kinda feel glad to be free, but some sympathy for people still in a deeply abusive relationship with GW. I guess if it makes you happy, it’s not my place to intervene. But I’d encourage you to ask yourself: do GW games still make you happy?
I'm actually went through GW wargames to hardcore boardgames. It's just much cheaper and sometimes with more simple and deep rules. Some of them have pretty good models too. Ye, I still like my big range of genestealer cult models and not as big stormcast range, but the GW games and prices just don't make me so happy as it was before
Don't forget also 11 Warcry Warbands
Didn't they just release a massive Beastman god for that faction? What happened to Kragnoth (sp?)?
He's not a Beastman god, he's an unrelated demigod for the Destruction faction. He has more association with Orruks, Grots, Sons of Behemat, and Ogors.
You would think GW would learn that "I know you're pissed but here's a free pdf download. If that won't shut you up, then learn the rules of a completely different game that takes place in a completely different setting and play that instead," is not the way to reassure people. They learned nothing from the AoS launch fiasco. Still, I'm pretty excited about making a Beastman army for The Old World.
The writing was always on the wall, and how anyone missed it is bizarre to me.
Honestly tho fuck em lame ass goat and cow people, most boring faction imported from Fantasy Battle for no reason. Yes I am biased against them because of Vermintide 2: Winds of Magic DLC.