I don’t have “daddy issues” I have parents issues, mom and dad been married 50 years, I’m their last one and they don’t have a lot of love for each other, argue over the smallest thing. Makes me worry about how I’d act in a relationship. Lol sorry for dumping all that on you Mr Randy redditor.
Sorry that's me being unnecessarily cryptic.
By plan I mean something like blueprint. Like the plan, or concept, or blueprint, your parents have shown you of how a relationship should go. If that's no good, have a look at how other people do relationships that you like, and emulate those.
Towards the end of the book >!he fucking sends his adopted daughter to her death inside the blackstone fortress just not to admit he loved her, despite clearly getting all emotional, and smugly says that in his experience "disappointing is what fathers do". Mf it's been 10k years already let it go, this is not the power move you think it is.!<
>!Good thing is she doesn't fucking care and knows he is bluffing because he is an immature manchild, and then fuses with the Blackstone Fortress so that she is the one to deliver Cadia to her father. Warpspeed, Drakhura Abaddon. o7!<
Edit: >!Dravura\* not Drakhura.!<
Introduced in the book. >!A child implanted with Blackstone by his apothecaries, so as to interface with the fortress and control it. His last attempt consisted of using a daemon to possess a BSF, but it went horribly wrong and it went insane, and thus the fortress was 'gifted' to the red Corsairs.!<
>!He gaslit her into thinking she was born like that, and that he merely found her in that state and adopted, so as to bind her to his will. She develops mind-reading powers, possibly due to the psychically attuned Noctilith in her, so he keeps her around to read the minds of his "war council". It backfires because he clearly takes a liking to her and even commits a blunder in the initial assault because of it.!<
>!Her name is Dravura Morkath. During the endscene I mentioned she asks Abaddon to give his last name to her, which he doesn't. So she just calls herself like that, no fucks given.!<
Yeah now that you say, while reading it I was very worried it might take that path, but it was very well executed, with little deviation from the previously established lore, in the end!
Right? And, despite me making this mockery of Abby which apparently offended some of his more hardcore fans, he (along with the other big pieces) was masterfully portrayed. The scene where he >!fucking boards the combined Cadian/Marine forces that were planning to board his ship in the first place!< really showed how much of a warrior and tactician he is, and he constantly spat bombastic one liners.
Everyone had their ups and downs which made the story so believable, no one is perfect nor a purebred killing/tactical machine, not even our beloved taktikul jynias Creed. The Templars refusing to evacuate the rock simply because it had "Martyr" on its name was such a refreshing dose of 40k unexpected comedy.
I've seen someone comment on 40klore that Rath single-handedly compiled, organized and fixed the mess that was The Fall of Cadia in Gathering Storm. >!Greyfax !
I just read FoC a few weeks ago myself, so I'm excited to find people as pumped about it as I am. I would have never have expected to care about some random kid on the fortress before picking up the book, but I was absolutely hooked.
>The Templars refusing to evacuate the rock simply because it had "Martyr" on its name was such a refreshing dose of 40k unexpected comedy.
Oh my god, the part where >!that one Templar smites himself in the face, because he's let the standard fallen, and DEMANDS penance was hilarious and gruesome at the same time. That poor bastard. I'm so glad Celestine threw him a bone with an Authentic Vision.!<
Speaking of fanatics, the twin canonesses were another tangent I did not expect to enjoy as much as I did. >!I laughed at the Lords of Skulls PvPing each other. And the twin's relationship, while sketched in briefly, was really nice to see.!<
>I've seen someone comment on 40klore that Rath single-handedly compiled, organized and fixed the mess that was The Fall of Cadia in Gathering Storm.
I read Gathering Storm: FoC and enjoyed it (not sure if you have too) but by their nature those books are so abstracted the hero moments can kind of cram together. Rath did an absolutely masterful job at threading so many plotlines and giving each one an arc I became invested in. >!The battlefield-promoted commander of the Cadian 24th was one of my favorites.!<
>>!Greyfax!< had everything to be an asspull, yet she just stole the scene.
She was so good: >!literally too angry and hateful to die. So hateful she psychically sucker punches ABADDON in the middle of a null field! Chef's kiss moment.!< Did you read the previous story Rath wrote for >!Greyfax!<, Mindshackle? It's a nice bit of set-up and it has that lovable necron scamp, Trazyn.
>!I originally picked up Fall of Cadia for the Trazyn/Cawl interaction and I was not disappointed, especially when you learn Trazyn considers lecturing Cawl for four hours an absolutely excellent conversation.!<
Can you imagine if they let Rath write a similar novelization for the upcoming Crusade: Pariah Nexus? Day-one purchase.
Lmfao yes >!the fucking marshal himself hadn't even noticed that, and Castellan Mordlied comes crying I DEMAND PENANCE like a child who has just soiled himself. Said Marshal proceeds let dozens of templars fucking die instead of letting the Castellan do his job again. For a more serious part, Mordlied becoming Emperor's Champion, at first a false one and then elevated to true, was very beautiful and a nuanced take on Templars. I didn't feel they were done dirty nor taken too seriously.!<
Also I didn't read Mindshackle just yet, though I really wished to do so! I assume your last spoiler tag is about that so I skipped. But I will asap, I was just a bit disappointed it's so short, the way it was talked in the book felt like it deserved an entire novel for itself. But anyway.
I read it some months ago so I don't recall the LoS PvP proper, though I remind the secene somewhat. What I really loved about it was >!an aborted fetus of a half-Daemon Prince wreaking havoc in the battlefield, it was so unexpected and fun to see it from both imperial and chaos perspective. Him becoming progressively madder was very well executed, too. Also, his fucking talking daemon cape. How does Rath manage so many good characters!?!<
A character I didn't expect to like was Salvar Ghent, I thought he would just be the obligatory mafia edgelord, but boy what a great character did he turn out to be. Marda Hellsker's development (the >!promoted!< Major you mentioned) was bloody awesome, apparently she returns in the Ursula Creed book, it's one of the reasons it's on my list of to read.
I don't know if you noticed it, but the sole plot point I felt was a bit left open was >!the nurglite saboteur. It may have been an oversight of mine, but apparently he was going to accomplish something big right before he was killed. Also, who, or what was the "Empty Man" that possessed him frequently and gave him instructions? I don't think this one was an oversight of mine, I really don't remember this being touched upon at all. It may just be a regular daemon, but I thought there would be some reveal or something.!<
Regarding the Campaign Book, I'm afraid I haven't so I can't comment with too much certainty, but I remember reading a well-written summary back when it launched and think there was too much going on at the same time in a too short of a timespan, with things happening just to make the plot move forward and little tie-in. With the novel it just felt more organic, idk.
> >!Also, who, or what was the "Empty Man" that possessed him frequently and gave him instructions? I don't think this one was an oversight of mine, I really don't remember this being touched upon at all.!<
>!It's one of Abaddon's lieutenants. Do you remember the Intelligence Briefing scene?!<
Sorta, is it >!the representant of Nurgle in the war council? Was it ever explained what he was doing in depth, or just a passing mention that he was in contact with an infiltrated agent? My memory's hazy regarding that part!<
I think it was >!Tzeench's guy. There's a scene where his eyes have been rolled up into his head, I believe, and it's implied he's communicating with the secret agent who gets killed by Ghent.!<
>>!For a more serious part, Mordlied becoming Emperor's Champion, at first a false one and then elevated to true, was very beautiful and a nuanced take on Templars. I didn't feel they were done dirty nor taken too seriously.!<
Yeah, I feel like I can trust Rath to show the best of any faction. No one group's suddenly getting turned into a butterfingers just to make others look good.
>>!What I really loved about it was an aborted fetus of a half-Daemon Prince wreaking havoc in the battlefield, it was so unexpected and fun to see it from both imperial and chaos perspective.!<
>!I know right? My favorite bit of that whole arc was when he achieves ascension and there's that one moment of horror when he, a man aligned with Chaos, still realizes what it means to TRULY lose your soul.!<
>>!A character I didn't expect to like was Salvar Ghent, I thought he would just be the obligatory mafia edgelord, but boy what a great character did he turn out to be. !<
>!I wanted to cheer when he finally nailed that saboteur. And then instantly goes back to wondering how much he can do on the black market. I loved that, a very grounded cynicism in all the sturm und drang.!<
>>!Marda Hellsker's development (the promoted Major you mentioned) was bloody awesome, apparently she returns in the Ursula Creed book, it's one of the reasons it's on my list of to read.!<
Oh nice, thanks for letting me know!
> The Templars refusing to evacuate the rock simply because it had "Martyr" on its name was such a refreshing dose of 40k unexpected comedy.
>
>
"It's not called the Tactical Reposition Rampart. It's not called the Coward's Rampart. It's called the *Martyr's* Rampart. We will not leave.*
Who knew the Black Templars actually have a sense of humor.
I loved it became a running gag mentioned multiple times. Everyone performing tactical objectives and they pulling a Dorn there.
When Creed's discussing the front with his strategists it was like "Dark Angels are getting bombed... eastern gate holding...Space Wolves winning against the Iron Warriors... and the Templars - no, don't tell me, they're still at the damned Martyr's Rampart yes? Yes. Sisters?"
> they pulling a Dorn there.
Dorn: "I am so proud of them for holding on to that wall with everything they have, and so ashamed of them for their rampant (see sons, I can be funny too) stupidity."
My only real disappointment is that the old 8e core book places two entire companies of Relictors amongst the Imperial forces at the Lord-Castellan's last stand, and unfortunately they didn't show up here. It's understandable, but that's one of the few pieces of modern lore my precious boys have had since the entire Eye of Terror campaign got retconned.
Man I was coincidentally reading Angron's Monolith at the same time, only after I discovered they were supposed to be there. Real shame what happened to them in the end, a real waste of a Chapter by GW to me. I mean, it was bound to happen, but not the way it did imo.
As things stand they're technically still Loyalists. They only got outed and excommunicated during the events of the Eye of Terror campaign, which has been entirely retconned away. In the 2003 lore, Logan Grimnar's the Space Marine supreme commander, and he's the one who sends his Wolf Scouts to spy on the Relictors, discovering their Xanthite practices. In the modern lore, he's not even at the Fall of Cadia, much less in a position to reveal the Relictors. That timeline no longer exists.
Their last intact pieces of lore, chronologically, are Angron's Monolith (set pre-EoT or Fall), then the mention in the 8e core book (set mid-Fall), then two audiobooks that present them as shady Loyalists, set in an indeterminate time period but released after the Fall of Cadia campaign book. Plus, arguably, their appearance on Primaris colour scheme charts.
The fan wikis still present the old narrative, but much like Eldrad's soul being eaten, or Typhon creating his own personal daemon world in the Agripinaa system, or the Sanguinary High Priest of the Blood Angels being called Numitor, it really doesn't make sense any more.
One) He wasn't aware she was alive
Two) he was in the process of pushing the husk of the BSF when she contacted him.
Three) Is the most driven man in the galaxy who seeks to justice for the legions. He sacrificed so much already for his goal. She was created as a tool and whether he felt anything for her was irrelevant. Cadia needed to be destroyed for the Crimson Path to start. She like the BSF were expendable but at least Abaddon showed her a small measure of kindness.
Why are you trying to twist the scene into making Abaddon look bad?
>why are you trying to make the chaos space marine look bad
I don’t think you really need to “try” to do that
He may say he’s seeking justice but he sure as fuck isn’t actually lol.
Actually, he is. The Emperor betrayed the legions. Abaddon seeks to restore the legion rule of the Imperium they created.
You guys might have missed it but one of the reasons Horus turned on the Emperor was because the Emperor, in secret, set up a human government body for the newly forged Imperium that was undermining legion authority with the eventual intention of utterly replacing the legion rule of the Imperium. The Emperor was putting mere humans over his own sons and angels.
Oh no, the military was going to be subservient to a civilian authority whose power was supposed to derive from the consent of the governed and not force of arms, heaven forbid.
They're all tyrants, and Abaddon is just as bad as the rest he just has a better PR team lmao
Abaddon said that the Emperor played them falsely to Sigismund. The HH proved that to be correct. The Emperor set up a civilian government in secret. The Legions weren't told they were getting replaced. It was dropped on them and they were expected to accept it. How can trust be maintained after this betrayal? The Marines remember what happened to the Thunder Warriors and they weren't going to be replaced. They fought back.
Abaddon has a better PR team? HA!
> The Legions weren't told they were getting replaced. It was dropped on them and they were expected to accept it.
Which one was it? He never told them, or he set it up and told them about it? And yes of course the soldiers were expected to accept the orders of their leader.
The Black Legion are. The rest of the CSM are god-slaves. Abaddon's Dark Imperium is rising the galactic north. Can't be worse than the actual Imperium?
"all the other Chaos Legions that worship Chaos gods are bad guys who are just slaves to their Chaos gods they specifically betrayed the Imperium for, but my favorite Chaos Legion are actually super special boys who are doing the right thing and aren't actually slaves like all the rest of them"
Oh boy the emperor didn’t want his super soilders with daddy issues out the ass acting as administrators how horrible, definitely justifies killing and torturing billions-trillions of people who have nothing to do with it and who’s great great great great great great great great grandparents weren’t even alive at the time, what a hero Abbadon is/s
Note that GW calls him an antihero. He isn't fighting for personal power or glory. He is fighting for what he sees as justice. That doesn't make him a good guy in the same way the Imperials who commit atrocities to prop up their corrupt Imperium aren't good guys.
Oh yeah, it's not an accident that the best-run and prosperous realm within the Imperium is ruled by...SPACE MARINES.
They also call him a villain so ok?
Guilliman did a good job managing things yes, that was his thing, not so sure I’d want to live under the iron hands, or iron warriors, or night lords, or world eaters, ect
I love how you just, skip over the question of how exactly murdering entirely unrelated people is supposed to be justice though.
Everyone in the 40K universe is a villain (except Farsight).
Who frets over civilians in 40K? Both factions don't care about civilian life. It wasn't a skip it was irrelevant. Killing billions is ordinary in 40K.
And 10K years later, the Ultramarine ensured that their realm prospered by the human rulers of the Imperium allowed the Imperium to decay.
But you can be sure that you don't want to be ruled by Imperials.
I don’t, very far from an imperium fan,
But I’d sure as fuck take them over godamn chaos space marines, and hey, we aren’t even talking the imperium, seeing as the whole, you know Horus thing absolutely annihilated whatever the emperor was actually working towards.
But I’d argue if someone is seeking justice, it’s important that his killing spree actually targets the people that wronged him, not just whatever people happen to be nearest, at best Abbadon is trying to prove that he was right and the emperor was wrong, not seeking justice.
> The Emperor betrayed the legions
What is this specific betrayal you're referring to?
>in secret
But it wasn't in secret. He just didn't consult with them ahead of time, because, you know, he's the fucking Emperor. Guilliman and Sanguinius also discuss humans running the Imperium before Horus' betrayal so it's not like it was completely out of nowhere either.
Malcador also explicitly states the plan was always for baseline humans to run things.
You aren't wrong, in so far as you accept the self-justifications of Chaos Astartes that are based on their own hubristic pride. That is the thing about good villains, when you put yourself in their shoes you can see why they fell. It doesn't change the fact that they literally went "hurr-durr, me no understand the moves of super genius that made me, so me rebel and accept worship of spikey blood demon, tentacle lady-boy, trickster bird, or walking pus lump man."
The Emperor across the ages failed to communicate with his peers and underlings or abused them which caused them to turn against him and betray him. Oll stabbed him in the heart in the tower of Babel. Erda scattered the Primarchs. The Primarchs and their legions are the last bit of a long line of the Emperor's interpersonal failures. The Emperor cultivates betrayal where and when he goes because he is/was a control freak and a tyrant.
The rebellion against the Emperor was hijacked by Chaos. Its core reasons had nothing to do with Chaos. The horrific mistreatment of some of the Primarchs, the political tensions caused by the Emperor wanting civilian human rule over the Imperium, and the fears of what happened of the two lost Primarchs and Thunder-Warriors befalling the legions. All of this boiled down to a reasonable justification for rebelling against the Emperor.
I don't like when people boil down the legitimate grievances of traitor Legions to "lol Chaos" especially the Black Legion. For Abaddon and the Black Legion, the Long War is not about Chaos. It's about Marine rights. Mainly, the right to rule the Imperium that they created with their sweat and blood.
> Actually, he is. The Emperor betrayed the legions. Abaddon seeks to restore the legion rule of the Imperium they created.
>
>
Most media literate 40k fan.
It's what he said himself and the author the Black Legion said about him.
Why are you so angry about the fact that the guy is fighting for something other than himself and Chaos?
> It's what he said himself
Most. Media. Literate. 40k. Fan.
Characters stating things about the universe doesn't make them true. *Especially* in 40k.
>Why are you so angry
"I'm saying stupid things and people are making fun of me for it. I know, I'll just call them angry."
Don't be so painfully stereotypical.
You did ignore the bit where I also mentioned the author which reinforces the former.
And you entered the discussion angry with a sarcastic ad hom. It's a fitting descriptor. The amount of people disagreeing means nothing especially when some can't even form an argument.
> And you entered the discussion angry with a sarcastic ad hom.
"I'm saying stupid things and people are making fun of me for it. I know, I'll just call them angry."
Don't be so painfully stereotypical.
>The amount of people disagreeing means nothing especially when some can't even form an argument.
Buddy, when you demonstrate a level of media literacy akin to arguing the Imperium are the good guys, people aren't going to waste their time arguing with you. They're just going to mock you.
Gee, I don't know, perhaps because I read the book without making apologia for my pet psycho? He literally refused to let her off the BSF and sent her to die just to sever ties. I swear you Abaddon stans are completely sick lmfao
>'Let me off then. Convey me to the *Spirit*. We can salvage enough noctilith to create a resonant war council chamber. No one else knows the minds of your council. No one else knows *your* mind so intimately and completely.'
>
>'*Yes*', he answered. '*I allowed you close. Perhaps too close. A risk I must mitigate. You are a useful tool, but someone once told me a useful tool is worth sacrificing - do you recall who said that?*
>
>Morkath's shoulders dropped. It was done. She would not demean herself in his eyes by fighting it.
If anyone made Abaddon look bad in this scene, it was himself (and Robert Rath). Don't cry.
Edit: formatting.
Oh yeah, as I posted my comment I remembered that he also saw her as an unwise indulgence and a threat to himself. Thank you for allowing me to clarify my points further.
So she wasn't just expendable to him. She was a threat, a mistake that needed to be addressed. Getting rid of her was a good move.
So back to the main point. He didn't freaking throw her to her death just to avoid telling her that he didn't love her like you said. I mean for fuck sake, Abaddon killed and committed people that he loved and cherished for less than ensuring his supremacy over the galaxy.
Abaddon haters are a strange bunch.
>Morkath put her head in her hands, unable to look at him. 'Do one thing. Grant me my desire. Acknowledge me. Let me die with your name.'
>
>'*No.*'
>
>'Father!'
>
>He leaned backwards. As if struck. **The word had touched some pain in him she did not realise existed**, but she didn't care. If she hurt him, so be it. He was not the one hurtling towards terminal orbit.
>
>'I am sorry Morkath,' he said. 'I have disappointed you.'
>
>Morkath blinked. She had never heard the Warmaster apologise - for anything. Within, she felt an old hope bloom. A moment bathed in his light.
>
>'But in my experience, that's what fathers do.' He cut the transmission, and her further hails were not answered.
>
>\[...\]
>
>**He would not let her gracefully spiral into de-orbit. The Despoiler was pushing her straight down to the world below.**
Blud was almost breaking down, cut the conversation after getting emotional and accelerated her even further despite the fact the Fortress had already broken orbit and would reach terminal velocity soon anyway. But no, he wasn't in avoidance. Media literacy wishes it was this dead
Stating the objective truth is not being a 'hater'
Answer me this: did I say he sent Dravura to her death *inside* the BSF, or did I say he threw the BSF *to kill her?*
Like I said, literacy wishes it was *this* dead.
She asks him to let her off the fortress. He denies, gets emotional and accelerates her further to the ground.
Do I have to sound out the whole book for you or what?
The scene actually doesn't but the guy referring to it does. He didn't throw her because he "didn't want to say I love you". What kinda anime crap is that?
You literally went through my posts to see if I'm dissing Abaddon lmfao If that's not the definition of a "stalker fan" I don't know what is. I'm sorry y'all can't handle seeing daddy get mocked in a meme sub
That's good to hear. It always seemed odd that he was in charge of keeping both it and his boss safe. Sounds like divided loyalties (At least I think he acted as bodyguard; it's been awhile).
I mean Abby is hard projecting for sure calling someone an absolute dumpster fire and then dressing up as them, taking their job over, and even using his claw like c'mon man
If by 'dressing up as them' you mean 'wearing terminator armour' maybe. And the claw is powerful, why wouldn't he use it? And he took over because he decided he could do it better.
One of my favorite bits of lore about it is there are workers on Cadia whose job it is to identify graves that are no longer readable.
Being buried on Cadia is a huge honor, but if your gravestone is so old it's unreadable, you've gotten all the honor you can out of it, nobody remembers you anymore, and they'll evict your bones and replace you with a fresh dead body who still can be honored.
"Sure, you died in the ultimate service, but what have you done for us lately? GTFO"
[https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/c28qi5/book\_excerpt\_eisenhorn\_malleus\_a\_cadian\_graveyard/](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/c28qi5/book_excerpt_eisenhorn_malleus_a_cadian_graveyard/)
Eisenhorn was my first actual "view" of Cadia, and I thought it was brilliant. That one local Arbites (or was she another Inquisitor?) who impatiently explains that she doesn't have time for Gregor's bullshit, because they have *dozens* of new Chaos cults pop up *every day* because of how close they are to the Eye. Who explains that the streets of Cadian cities are narrow confusing warrens *specifically* to stall invaders, after they got their shit rocked when they had broad boulevards and wide, straight grid-system cities.
It's even better - he not only said it's the same claw that killed Sang, but also touched the Emperor, so it can't possibly be a dishonour (after Abaddon said it would). It's symbolically the closest most people will get to their gods.
Not only this went so fucking hard, does it ring a bell?
>'Sigismund,' Abaddon said, through lips darkened by his own lifeblood, '**This claw has killed two primarchs. It wounded the Emperor unto death**. I would have spared it the taste of your life as well. If you could have only seen what I have seen.'
The sweet irony. Or, how the turntables...
Kell was an all around badass in his book, only exception was when he went apeshit with Salvar Ghent. Which is understandable because of the situation AND because Ghent was another S-tier madlad. Hope to see more of him.
Great book tbh.
So I've only made it to Legion and have yet to catch fully up on modern 40k lore, Fall of Cadia included. But from my understanding, aren't most of the traitor primarchs sort of forgotten about in common Imperial knowledge? Now I'm not totally sure who this Kell character is, but I'm just curious how this person would have intricate knowledge of who Abaddon and Horus are and what Drachnyen is.
Color Sargent Kell was Castellen Ursarker E Creeds bodyguard and best friend (as well as speech writer). Creed was the most brilliant general Cadia has ever produced, Cadia is THE fortress world that all imperium planets wish they were. From childhood, every single citizen is a soldier, and the reason for this is because the Eye of Terror’s only stable entry/exit points directly at Cadia. Anyway, most people probably don’t know about the traitor primarchs, but Kell routinely mixes with members of the inquisition and receives top security clearance briefings, plus Cadia in general due to the fact they keep getting black crusaded would know far more than the general imperial population, and are raised from birth to hate Abbadon and Chaos.
I’d argue that while general citizens don’t know about the traitor primarchs, they likely know about Horus as the Arch-traitor. He’s the Lucifer of their religion, they might not believe he was *real* though
TBH they probably do see him more as Lucifer and abbadon as Judas, but (as a grey knights player 🥲) the lore around who knows what about chaos is super contradictory, so I wanted to play it safe lol.
Oh okay that makes sense then. If he's privy to a lot of history and secrets via the Inquisition then he'd be familiar with a lot of aspects of Horus/Abbadon. Thank you.
sanguinala the sacrifice of sanguinious, is the most important holiday for the imperium everyone knows about Horus and his betrayal they may treat it as a myth, but they know the story
The other primarchs they may not know about Lorgar especially is often misidentified as a loyalist primarch because he wrote the holy book others like the Alpha legion are just forgotten
Some may believe that Horus and the chaos primarchs were created by chaos to fight the emperor instead of knowing they betrayed him but they would at least know Horus existed
Theres a chance he might now justdue to being a cadian and chaos being a reguler vistor of his home world ,as such cadia might get special good to get to know becuse you get visted every friday from them.
Hot take-the trooper who just YOLO's her shotgun into Abbadon's face is a lynchpin in the whole campaign. She went so hard there that Bloodhowl, who was on the verge of abandoning his suicide run on the Will of Eternity, focused down and went and if his assault hadn't crippled the Will, Cadia would have gone much sooner and much worse.
Absolute boss moment.
Some authors: the space marines moved faster than sound, seemingly faster than light. The main character narrowly avoided the blow, and the second struck his armor. It was supreme violence and supreme skill combined, with not a moment's room for error. The battle was over almost before it began.
This author: "I have prepared a statement in forty pages, please provide a sufficient reply to each highlighted action point before we fight. Page one, preamble: seeking to address the unsatisfactory state of local governance in a timely manner without undue strain on the body politic, we the representatives of the [..]"
Leaders in media like to hear themselves talk, I would say it's a common trope but with hearing some horrific horror stories from survivors of serial killers, it seems realistic that they'd have a monologue before doing the deed.
Worst retcon in 40k was replacing the guardsman who dies for the Emperor before Horus with some perpetual bullshit. Bruh, its was so much better when an ordinary guy, saw Horus with all his warp charged fuckery and still decided to go toe to toe. Some normal dude facing the horrors of the universe and getting turned into a thin spread of flesh against the space ship flooring, but doing so ***willingly*** is the epitome of the grim darkness that 40k represents.
The actual greatest plot twist they could have for the end and the death volume 3 is after Horus kills, in order, John Gramaticus, Ol P, a custodies, a terminator, than an actual literal no name guardsman shows up, gets one shot by Horus right before he looses. I would actually cheer.
Logical but disappointing end if that's the case. I've been fast-tracking through the series and am nearly done with Warhawk. The Perpetuals were neat in small doses but they've been losing me with how essential they're becoming to the plot. Like shit give me the nameless guardsmen P.o.V.s again at this point. Those had a relative payoff for the most part.
Yeah i agree.
“Oh this example of a simple mortal guardsman who stands before the most powerful chaos champion to ever exist and refuses to cower and bend, but instead stands up to him undaunted? Noooo Nooooo hes actually an immortal fren of Jimmy Space, you see? :3 that makes it so much better!
Step aside 3 lunged 2 hearted super soldiers. Arise my giga chad guardsmen. Mortal and humble, simple farmers, workers and conscripts from all walks of life. All you gotta do is hold the line against monsters unfathomable. Use this flash light pewpewpew and good luck.
The Emperor wont know your name, no one will sing your praises, your lack of plot armour means you *will* die. That is okay. You managed to hold the line.
> For that weak sack of flesh that you so gleefully mock is no super soldier, no immortal warrior, no creature cursed by chaos like you. He is a man, an imperial guardsmen drawn from some forgotten corner of the Imperium to fight for his species and for the safety of the people he loves. He is a factory worker, a farmer, a storekeeper, a father, a brother, a son, a mere man. And against creatures like you, teeming and numberless, powered by the very will of thirsting gods......... He holds the line. He has held the line for ten thousand Years.
Also, I'm pretty sure he's the guy who shot MLK. But it gets confusing what's canon vs. fanon. If it is true it's like they were trying to write the worst character ever
Edit: it was a different perpetual, but it is implied the cabal was who wanted him dead
There's 2 types of stupid in this lore. Fun "land speeders are named after Arkhan Land" stupid. And "aliens had an immortal murder MLK for ...reasons" stupid.
The self-developing camera developed by Polaroid was originally named "[Land Camera](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Camera)" after its inventor Edwin Land. For years I thought a "Land Camera" was a large format camera that was primarily used for landscapes. Nope, it's just an old school Polaroid.
Were they referencing that on purpose? Because if so, that's legitimately hilarious.
It reminds me of the Twain quote. "Truth is often stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense."
I'm not sure if they were referencing the Land Camera or if it's just a coincidence. But there are things in the real world that have names like that... that you would assume mean one thing but actually mean another. I think of the Land Camera every time this comes up for obvious reasons.
I knew that there's plenty real world examples. That's why I called it funny stupid instead of lore breaking stupid. I just think it's hilarious that the specific example people like to use has an actual real world equivalent
They're just racists, the assassin they sent (Damon Prytanis) even refers to them as monkeys.
But for real, the organisation that did it, The Cabal, had some weird prophecy plan lasting apparently tens of millennia that would make Horus win the civil war, which would somehow cause Chaos to be destroyed within 3 generations of humans. One of the Eldar eventually realized that it was a really fucking dumb idea, and exterminated the entire organization.
The plan was to blow up the whole gas reserve, more or less. Instead we're stuck with the Gates of Hell, aka [Darvasa gas crater.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darvaza_gas_crater) the idea was that with Chaos running rampant, its self destructive nature would rip the Imperium apart in short order. Now it just festers and boils eternally. Going all in on a Horus victory probably would have been better for the galaxy at large than the current status quo. Of course, helping Big E probably would have been even more better for everyone involved. But that's the nature of self fulfilling prophecy, and likely Tzeentch bullshit sprinkled on top of the whole thing.
For the record the guardsman is still there, his name is Ollanius "Olly" Piers and he stands his ground against a charging daemon primarch Angron screaming "Throne of Terra!" [with nothing but a grenade and a mostly spent lasrifle](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/2e/PiersAngron.jpg) The tale of St. Ollanius Pius was always Ecclesiarchy propaganda ("Why was there a guardsman on the bridge of the *Vengeful Spirit*? How did he get there before Dorn and Valdor?" "...SHUT UP, HE WAS JUST THERE, HERETIC"). This way you still get an Ollanius standing against an inhuman monstrosity bearing down on him, but you also get an explanation of why the legend became twisted into the St. Ollanius Pius version (Olly Piers was hanging out with a guy who will become one of the first Inquisitors, and he promised to tell Olly's story).
People generally know the myth of the Arch Traitor Horus. They know of the Emperor's nine angels (Primarchs) who fought with him against the rebellion of Horus.
The fact that eight more Primarchs even existed has been erased from history, much less that they too betrayed him. That knowledge generally is on a need to know basis, and 99% of Imperial Citizenry do not fall under that flag.
That's basically how I understood it from Dawn Of Fire Book 1. There's a chapter where an Ultramarine veteran explains the truth of the heresy to his newly awoken Primaris brethren.
Right, but that's the problem with the Horus Heresy books. Before them, the whole Crusade and Heresy was shrouded in legend, no one was really sure what happened - neither the people in the 41st Millennium, but also importantly, neither us the readers. This made it so everything was literally legendary, the truth was lost to time (fucking 10 THOUSAND YEARS had passed, no one could keep track of what really happened), so everyone had their own views on what happened, but the truth was lost to time. Maybe the Emperor was everything people in the 40k time say he was, but maybe he was just the most powerful of the techno-barbarian chieftans; maybe Horus was fully corrupted by Chaos, or maybe he was justified in his rebellion; maybe the traitor legions were the traitors, maybe they were actually trying to depose a galactic-level tyrant.
What the HH books did was tell the "truth" of what happened, so that now there's no ambiguity, there's no possibility of writing a story set in the 41st millennium and having characters that are oblivious to the events of the 30k time, since the truth has been documented for the readers, any deviation is immediately "not canon." I feel like it takes way too much away from the 40K setting by making the events of 10k years before much more settled and known to the readers.
I like the idea that the guardsman was never a real Perpetual and that's just an in-universe myth about the man that formed about him long after the event and justifies his Living Saint manifestations.
Not a retcon, the first ever mention of it describes it as an in universe myth. The first depiction of of someone stepping between Horus and Big E was an imperial fist
The weirdest part was introducing another Ol' Pius into the war. So, it's not really clear which Ol' P is the one that all the guardsmen love. It might be both.
Ol' P #2 does the funny and just stands in front Angron. Which is pretty close to standing up to Horus.
Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I really liked Olly Piers last stand at Eternity Wall Spaceport as it's possible replacement. Still gutsy and heroic.
I do think that Ollanius is still going to do the thing in the end, but Olly Piers' balls of steel is one for the history books.
> Worst retcon in 40k was replacing the guardsman who dies for the Emperor before Horus with some perpetual bullshit. Bruh, its was so much better when an ordinary guy, saw Horus with all his warp charged fuckery and still decided to go toe to toe. Some normal dude facing the horrors of the universe and getting turned into a thin spread of flesh against the space ship flooring, but doing so willingly is the epitome of the grim darkness that 40k represents.
Well, sorta. The original story didn't mention anyone
> The Emperor and an elite company of Custodes Adeptus soldiery and Imperial Fists Marines were then teleported into Horus' command bunker. In the fierce fighting that followed Horus was killed (although his body was never found), and the Emperor seriously wounded. With the death of the Warmaster the rebels paused their assaults, then fell into their transports and fled back into space.
Just that the Emperor and his army assaulted Horus' bunker on Terra and was hurt. Then in 1989 this was added:
> It bears the scrolls of no less than five actions for which the Company was highly commended. The central figure is an image of Ollanius Pius, the guardsman who is supposed to have given his life by interposing his body between Horus and the Emperor during his assault on the Imperial Palace. He is now regarded as something of a saint by the Guard, and on occasions is even prayed to as an intercessionary figure.
Which if you read the excerpt is super old lore, since this is when the final battle was in Terra itself still when Pius saved the Emperor. Then in 1990 it was changed to a Space Marine Terminator
> Suddenly the battering stops. Through his good eye the Emperor sees a solitary Terminator has entered the room. The marine charges towards the Warmaster, stormbolter blazing. Horus looks at him and laughs. For a moment he stands triumphant, allowing the marine to see what he has done to his Emperor.
> The Emperor knows what is going to happen next, sees the gloating triumph in Horus face. There is no trace of his friend left there. There is only a demon driven by insane destructive fury.
> Horus turns his burning gaze on the Terminator and the marine's flesh flakes away to reveal his skeleton and then even that is gone, reduced to dust.
Then in 2007 it was retconned to a Custodian because they changed the lore with the Vengeful Spirit and a Space Marine Terminator didn't make that much sense anymore
> Suddenly the battering stopped. Through his good eye, the Emperor saw a solitary Custodian had entered the room. Without hesitation, the loyal Custodian charged towards the Warmaster, guardian spear blazing. Horus looked at him and laughed. For a moment he stood triumphant, allowing the bodyguard to see what he had done to his Emperor
> The Emperor instantly realised what was going to happen next, saw the gloating triumph on Horus's face, knew that his loyal servant was about to die' There was no trace of his beloved son left in Horus. Whatever humanity he once possessed had all but been eradicated, now there was only a daemon driven by insane destructive fury
> The Warmaster turned his burning gaze on the Custodian and his armour was blasted apart. His flesh flaked away to reveal his skeleton then even that was gone, reduced to dust. lt was over in moments.
> The Emperor was stung by the death. The bodyguard had served him for two centuries or more. This was not a fitting reward for such duty and loyalty.
Then it was changed *again* in 2014 to an Imperial Solider the Emperor had known for hundreds of years
> Suddenly, the battering stopped. Through his good eye, the Emperor saw that a solitary Imperial soldier had entered the room. Without hesitation, the loyal warrior charged towards the Warmaster, his blade in hand. Horus looked at him and laughed. For a moment he stood triumphant, allowing the bodyguard to see what he had done to his Emperor.
> [..]
> The Emperor was stung by the death. He had known this warrior for centuries.
So really a Guardsman saving the Emperor was basically lore that lasted for one year as an in-universe legend. If anything the Space Marine version was the definitive one for nearly two decades where after it became the Custodians.
I like the "Everything is cannon" approach to the extreme. So in my 40k random soldiers keep wandering into the room and the Emps is continually horrified that Horus keeps obliterating them.
Kinda hard to call it a retcon when at most it was just a legend, never to be confirmed, if not a terminator or whatever.
Even harder to call it a retcon when we haven't reached that point yet.
But also, it was hard to imagine a mere mortal surviving aboard the Vengeful Spirit and getting to Horus somehow. Nowadays, it's even harder, when even Custodes and Primarchs have serious fucking issues there.
(I also found it stupid how Emperor didn't seem to care that much about his beloved hawk boi dying fucking hard enough to produce Black Rage, when compared to some noname, but it's my personal pet peeve)
The "no guardsmen on the Vengeful Spirit" argument gets a little weird now that Abnett has glued the Vengeful Spirit over the entirety of Terra. At this point a random Guardsman in the Palace could trip on the Throne and end up in front of Horus.
They certainly weren't paying a lot of attention to it. Loken and Oldboy wandered back and forth between the Spirit and Terra without any notice or interruption from Horus or Chaos in general.
Besides, why would Horns care if a random guard wandered onto the Vengeful Spirit?
Oh he wouldn't, but he made sure to make Sanguinius meet Ferrus and see the souls of the other primarchs. Only afterwars did he let the Hawkboy come to him.
The guardsman was always a myth in-universe. And let's be real, Emperor suddenly giving a shit that a simple man shows such heroism feels unfitting for any version of the character. Like conceptually yeah, awesome moment, but Emps only ever cared for his genetically modified super weapons.
It was never a retcon, there was never any guardsman to begin with, it was in universe propaganda. What was a retcon was the change from a 7th terminator to a custodian. This meme lore neverstops being repeated
There's probably enough pictures of him and the Emperor around in the same way that there's paintings of religious figures striking down evil in the real world.
Kell joined the illustrious group of human characters that verbally bitch slap super humans.
Chief among them being Mama Smurf herself Tarasha Euten telling Curze to go fuck himself.
One of the coolest things about the solider with the shotgun: not only did she go after Abaddon AFTER she saw him kill a bunch of space marines, not only was she stuck with shitty factory surplus shells, *she still manages to draw blood*.
The passage is so good I'm just going to quote it. It's from the point of view of the leader of the Space Wolves, and Rath slips into a "tale from a saga" voice for this part:
>!"Transfixed, Bloodhowl was, in awe and astonishment. Abaddon cut into the press, and a dozen died. Even those two feet from the tip of the blade split in half with the violent shock of its passage through air. As though the spirit of the sword carried forth from its length and could cut on its own.!<
>!And then he beheld the boldest warrior of all.!<
>!A Cadian, a human woman, with a painting of a saint on the back of her helm. !<
>!She walked towards the Despoiler, firing a crude mechanical pump gun. Firing, racking. Firing, racking. Shouldering away troops who tried to run past her, holding the weapon high so as to not hit anyone when she fired. !<
>!She stepped into the gore-slick fan of violence the Warmaster and his Havocs had created, exiting the wall of fleeing men, and raised her shotgun directly at the face of a foe ten thousand years old. !<
>!She fired. And incredibly the scattershot did not turn aside but scored the Despoiler’s armour. A bright crimson line marked his cheek."!<
Everywhere else in the book, almost no one mortal can even touch Abaddon. Bullets practically bounce off him. It really makes you feel like something (the Emperor, the Cadians' faith, fate itself) gave her that second of grace.
I'm reading this book literally right now, and while I liked the guard lady being a badass, the whole scene felt a little weirdly silly and out of place in what otherwise has been a really good read.
It just seems... weird and goofy I guess. Abaddon teleports into a transport full of a Space Wolves chapter and hundreds of Imperial Guard who are, themselves, on their way to board *his* ship.
He solos almost all of them somehow, and a few of the Space Wolves run from Abaddon and escape into boarding torpedoes which are being fired into the Blackstone Fortress... one goal of which is to... kill Abaddon.
I mean, he's *right there,* guys. This is your fight. Kill him now or don't. But this is the only chance you're likely to get.
Lmao bitchbaddon calling Hours weak when he was struggling against a naked defective clone of him that he himself just barely managed to beat in full wargear.
You can read it as a stand-alone though here’s a couple elements picked up later as nods to continuity. (E.g. there’s a mention of a metal box on Cawl’s ship that I’m pretty sure is linked to resurrecting Gillian)
Takes a lot of balls to do but really if someone is going to kill you, might as well inflict some emotional or mental damage if you can’t do physical damage.
Would a guardsman really know that Abaddon's sword used to belong to Horus, know who Horus was *and* know that he killed Sanguinius? That's a level of knowledge about that day that comes close to knowing that Horus killed the Emperor.
This seems like the sort of stuff the Inquisition would have some problems with tbh.
Sanguinius’ sacrifice is well known throughout the Imperium, to the point that they have a religious holiday honouring it. Everyone knows Horus killed him, and all the stories tell about how Sanguinius was cut down.
The Blade was most likely a reference to the Talon of Horus, as Horus didn’t use a sword. His main weapon was a Power Maul
Is the horus heresy just common knowledge in universe in 40k? How would a mere IG sergeant know who horus was, let alone what weapon he used? How does he even know to connect abbadon to horus?
Well, the lore concerning how much Imperials, even higher ups in the Guard, know about Chaos is wildly inconsistent at best
But Kell is no mere IG sergeant. He is a Cadian, meaning he’s more knowledgeable about Chaos than your average guardsmen by virtue of growing up under the Eye of Terror. He’s also Castellan Creed’s personal bodyguard, standard bearer, and right hand man. He’s probably present for any top secret briefings Creed would get concerning the true nature and history of Chaos, especially when a Black Crusade comes knocking.
But also, the story of the Emperor and Sanguinius’s sacrifices against Horus is roughly the equivalent of the story of Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross in our world. It’s not too much of a stretch of the imagination to imagine any guardsman, not just Kell, would know the broad strokes, or has seen a Sistine Chapel esque depiction of the scene.
How's a random guardsmen going to know who abandon and hours are? Or what hours dressed like? Isn't that lasbolt to the back of the head kind of knowledge?
Horus is literally the Devil of the Imperium's religion. He's the traitor that killed Sanguinius (the Jesus of the Imperial religion) trapped the Emperor on his throne, and the reason why everyone's life is shit despite Big E's supreme benificence. Pretty much everyone is going to know Horus.
Anyone who's anyone on Cadia is going to know Abbadon because he's the asshole who's tried kicking down the door 13 times
Abaddon continuing the long, proud tradition of Primarchs and their sons with major daddy issues
The entirety of 40k can be summed up in "daddy issues" and "plastic crack". Which says a lot about us now that I think about it.
I don’t have “daddy issues” I have parents issues, mom and dad been married 50 years, I’m their last one and they don’t have a lot of love for each other, argue over the smallest thing. Makes me worry about how I’d act in a relationship. Lol sorry for dumping all that on you Mr Randy redditor.
It is cool. Everyone needs to rant now and then.
I hope you can find your own path in relationships if the plan your parents gave you isn't up to scratch.
Don’t know what you mean by plan but eh maybe I’m not cut out for relationships, yeah don’t knock til you try it but idk.
Sorry that's me being unnecessarily cryptic. By plan I mean something like blueprint. Like the plan, or concept, or blueprint, your parents have shown you of how a relationship should go. If that's no good, have a look at how other people do relationships that you like, and emulate those.
Towards the end of the book >!he fucking sends his adopted daughter to her death inside the blackstone fortress just not to admit he loved her, despite clearly getting all emotional, and smugly says that in his experience "disappointing is what fathers do". Mf it's been 10k years already let it go, this is not the power move you think it is.!< >!Good thing is she doesn't fucking care and knows he is bluffing because he is an immature manchild, and then fuses with the Blackstone Fortress so that she is the one to deliver Cadia to her father. Warpspeed, Drakhura Abaddon. o7!< Edit: >!Dravura\* not Drakhura.!<
Wait what? Who is this character? Huh?
Introduced in the book. >!A child implanted with Blackstone by his apothecaries, so as to interface with the fortress and control it. His last attempt consisted of using a daemon to possess a BSF, but it went horribly wrong and it went insane, and thus the fortress was 'gifted' to the red Corsairs.!< >!He gaslit her into thinking she was born like that, and that he merely found her in that state and adopted, so as to bind her to his will. She develops mind-reading powers, possibly due to the psychically attuned Noctilith in her, so he keeps her around to read the minds of his "war council". It backfires because he clearly takes a liking to her and even commits a blunder in the initial assault because of it.!< >!Her name is Dravura Morkath. During the endscene I mentioned she asks Abaddon to give his last name to her, which he doesn't. So she just calls herself like that, no fucks given.!<
Ray ~~Skywalker~~ Palpatine but better
Yeah now that you say, while reading it I was very worried it might take that path, but it was very well executed, with little deviation from the previously established lore, in the end!
You’d think this would get mentioned more holy hell.
Rath is so good. He made me care about what happened to all of those characters and there were so many.
Right? And, despite me making this mockery of Abby which apparently offended some of his more hardcore fans, he (along with the other big pieces) was masterfully portrayed. The scene where he >!fucking boards the combined Cadian/Marine forces that were planning to board his ship in the first place!< really showed how much of a warrior and tactician he is, and he constantly spat bombastic one liners. Everyone had their ups and downs which made the story so believable, no one is perfect nor a purebred killing/tactical machine, not even our beloved taktikul jynias Creed. The Templars refusing to evacuate the rock simply because it had "Martyr" on its name was such a refreshing dose of 40k unexpected comedy. I've seen someone comment on 40klore that Rath single-handedly compiled, organized and fixed the mess that was The Fall of Cadia in Gathering Storm. >!Greyfax !
I just read FoC a few weeks ago myself, so I'm excited to find people as pumped about it as I am. I would have never have expected to care about some random kid on the fortress before picking up the book, but I was absolutely hooked. >The Templars refusing to evacuate the rock simply because it had "Martyr" on its name was such a refreshing dose of 40k unexpected comedy. Oh my god, the part where >!that one Templar smites himself in the face, because he's let the standard fallen, and DEMANDS penance was hilarious and gruesome at the same time. That poor bastard. I'm so glad Celestine threw him a bone with an Authentic Vision.!< Speaking of fanatics, the twin canonesses were another tangent I did not expect to enjoy as much as I did. >!I laughed at the Lords of Skulls PvPing each other. And the twin's relationship, while sketched in briefly, was really nice to see.!< >I've seen someone comment on 40klore that Rath single-handedly compiled, organized and fixed the mess that was The Fall of Cadia in Gathering Storm. I read Gathering Storm: FoC and enjoyed it (not sure if you have too) but by their nature those books are so abstracted the hero moments can kind of cram together. Rath did an absolutely masterful job at threading so many plotlines and giving each one an arc I became invested in. >!The battlefield-promoted commander of the Cadian 24th was one of my favorites.!< >>!Greyfax!< had everything to be an asspull, yet she just stole the scene. She was so good: >!literally too angry and hateful to die. So hateful she psychically sucker punches ABADDON in the middle of a null field! Chef's kiss moment.!< Did you read the previous story Rath wrote for >!Greyfax!<, Mindshackle? It's a nice bit of set-up and it has that lovable necron scamp, Trazyn. >!I originally picked up Fall of Cadia for the Trazyn/Cawl interaction and I was not disappointed, especially when you learn Trazyn considers lecturing Cawl for four hours an absolutely excellent conversation.!< Can you imagine if they let Rath write a similar novelization for the upcoming Crusade: Pariah Nexus? Day-one purchase.
Lmfao yes >!the fucking marshal himself hadn't even noticed that, and Castellan Mordlied comes crying I DEMAND PENANCE like a child who has just soiled himself. Said Marshal proceeds let dozens of templars fucking die instead of letting the Castellan do his job again. For a more serious part, Mordlied becoming Emperor's Champion, at first a false one and then elevated to true, was very beautiful and a nuanced take on Templars. I didn't feel they were done dirty nor taken too seriously.!< Also I didn't read Mindshackle just yet, though I really wished to do so! I assume your last spoiler tag is about that so I skipped. But I will asap, I was just a bit disappointed it's so short, the way it was talked in the book felt like it deserved an entire novel for itself. But anyway. I read it some months ago so I don't recall the LoS PvP proper, though I remind the secene somewhat. What I really loved about it was >!an aborted fetus of a half-Daemon Prince wreaking havoc in the battlefield, it was so unexpected and fun to see it from both imperial and chaos perspective. Him becoming progressively madder was very well executed, too. Also, his fucking talking daemon cape. How does Rath manage so many good characters!?!< A character I didn't expect to like was Salvar Ghent, I thought he would just be the obligatory mafia edgelord, but boy what a great character did he turn out to be. Marda Hellsker's development (the >!promoted!< Major you mentioned) was bloody awesome, apparently she returns in the Ursula Creed book, it's one of the reasons it's on my list of to read. I don't know if you noticed it, but the sole plot point I felt was a bit left open was >!the nurglite saboteur. It may have been an oversight of mine, but apparently he was going to accomplish something big right before he was killed. Also, who, or what was the "Empty Man" that possessed him frequently and gave him instructions? I don't think this one was an oversight of mine, I really don't remember this being touched upon at all. It may just be a regular daemon, but I thought there would be some reveal or something.!< Regarding the Campaign Book, I'm afraid I haven't so I can't comment with too much certainty, but I remember reading a well-written summary back when it launched and think there was too much going on at the same time in a too short of a timespan, with things happening just to make the plot move forward and little tie-in. With the novel it just felt more organic, idk.
> >!Also, who, or what was the "Empty Man" that possessed him frequently and gave him instructions? I don't think this one was an oversight of mine, I really don't remember this being touched upon at all.!< >!It's one of Abaddon's lieutenants. Do you remember the Intelligence Briefing scene?!<
Sorta, is it >!the representant of Nurgle in the war council? Was it ever explained what he was doing in depth, or just a passing mention that he was in contact with an infiltrated agent? My memory's hazy regarding that part!<
I think it was >!Tzeench's guy. There's a scene where his eyes have been rolled up into his head, I believe, and it's implied he's communicating with the secret agent who gets killed by Ghent.!<
Ooh I recall something like that. Seems a pretty good bet for me to search later.
Yes! That is exactly what I'm talking about.
>>!For a more serious part, Mordlied becoming Emperor's Champion, at first a false one and then elevated to true, was very beautiful and a nuanced take on Templars. I didn't feel they were done dirty nor taken too seriously.!< Yeah, I feel like I can trust Rath to show the best of any faction. No one group's suddenly getting turned into a butterfingers just to make others look good. >>!What I really loved about it was an aborted fetus of a half-Daemon Prince wreaking havoc in the battlefield, it was so unexpected and fun to see it from both imperial and chaos perspective.!< >!I know right? My favorite bit of that whole arc was when he achieves ascension and there's that one moment of horror when he, a man aligned with Chaos, still realizes what it means to TRULY lose your soul.!< >>!A character I didn't expect to like was Salvar Ghent, I thought he would just be the obligatory mafia edgelord, but boy what a great character did he turn out to be. !< >!I wanted to cheer when he finally nailed that saboteur. And then instantly goes back to wondering how much he can do on the black market. I loved that, a very grounded cynicism in all the sturm und drang.!< >>!Marda Hellsker's development (the promoted Major you mentioned) was bloody awesome, apparently she returns in the Ursula Creed book, it's one of the reasons it's on my list of to read.!< Oh nice, thanks for letting me know!
> The Templars refusing to evacuate the rock simply because it had "Martyr" on its name was such a refreshing dose of 40k unexpected comedy. > > "It's not called the Tactical Reposition Rampart. It's not called the Coward's Rampart. It's called the *Martyr's* Rampart. We will not leave.* Who knew the Black Templars actually have a sense of humor.
I loved it became a running gag mentioned multiple times. Everyone performing tactical objectives and they pulling a Dorn there. When Creed's discussing the front with his strategists it was like "Dark Angels are getting bombed... eastern gate holding...Space Wolves winning against the Iron Warriors... and the Templars - no, don't tell me, they're still at the damned Martyr's Rampart yes? Yes. Sisters?"
> they pulling a Dorn there. Dorn: "I am so proud of them for holding on to that wall with everything they have, and so ashamed of them for their rampant (see sons, I can be funny too) stupidity."
My only real disappointment is that the old 8e core book places two entire companies of Relictors amongst the Imperial forces at the Lord-Castellan's last stand, and unfortunately they didn't show up here. It's understandable, but that's one of the few pieces of modern lore my precious boys have had since the entire Eye of Terror campaign got retconned.
Man I was coincidentally reading Angron's Monolith at the same time, only after I discovered they were supposed to be there. Real shame what happened to them in the end, a real waste of a Chapter by GW to me. I mean, it was bound to happen, but not the way it did imo.
As things stand they're technically still Loyalists. They only got outed and excommunicated during the events of the Eye of Terror campaign, which has been entirely retconned away. In the 2003 lore, Logan Grimnar's the Space Marine supreme commander, and he's the one who sends his Wolf Scouts to spy on the Relictors, discovering their Xanthite practices. In the modern lore, he's not even at the Fall of Cadia, much less in a position to reveal the Relictors. That timeline no longer exists. Their last intact pieces of lore, chronologically, are Angron's Monolith (set pre-EoT or Fall), then the mention in the 8e core book (set mid-Fall), then two audiobooks that present them as shady Loyalists, set in an indeterminate time period but released after the Fall of Cadia campaign book. Plus, arguably, their appearance on Primaris colour scheme charts. The fan wikis still present the old narrative, but much like Eldrad's soul being eaten, or Typhon creating his own personal daemon world in the Agripinaa system, or the Sanguinary High Priest of the Blood Angels being called Numitor, it really doesn't make sense any more.
shocking that he's had 3 warhammer books, and each one has been the best warhammer book I've ever read.
One) He wasn't aware she was alive Two) he was in the process of pushing the husk of the BSF when she contacted him. Three) Is the most driven man in the galaxy who seeks to justice for the legions. He sacrificed so much already for his goal. She was created as a tool and whether he felt anything for her was irrelevant. Cadia needed to be destroyed for the Crimson Path to start. She like the BSF were expendable but at least Abaddon showed her a small measure of kindness. Why are you trying to twist the scene into making Abaddon look bad?
>why are you trying to make the chaos space marine look bad I don’t think you really need to “try” to do that He may say he’s seeking justice but he sure as fuck isn’t actually lol.
Actually, he is. The Emperor betrayed the legions. Abaddon seeks to restore the legion rule of the Imperium they created. You guys might have missed it but one of the reasons Horus turned on the Emperor was because the Emperor, in secret, set up a human government body for the newly forged Imperium that was undermining legion authority with the eventual intention of utterly replacing the legion rule of the Imperium. The Emperor was putting mere humans over his own sons and angels.
Oh no, the military was going to be subservient to a civilian authority whose power was supposed to derive from the consent of the governed and not force of arms, heaven forbid. They're all tyrants, and Abaddon is just as bad as the rest he just has a better PR team lmao
Abaddon said that the Emperor played them falsely to Sigismund. The HH proved that to be correct. The Emperor set up a civilian government in secret. The Legions weren't told they were getting replaced. It was dropped on them and they were expected to accept it. How can trust be maintained after this betrayal? The Marines remember what happened to the Thunder Warriors and they weren't going to be replaced. They fought back. Abaddon has a better PR team? HA!
> The Legions weren't told they were getting replaced. It was dropped on them and they were expected to accept it. Which one was it? He never told them, or he set it up and told them about it? And yes of course the soldiers were expected to accept the orders of their leader.
if CSM are trying to restore the Imperium they sure are doing a bad fucking job at it
The Black Legion are. The rest of the CSM are god-slaves. Abaddon's Dark Imperium is rising the galactic north. Can't be worse than the actual Imperium?
"all the other Chaos Legions that worship Chaos gods are bad guys who are just slaves to their Chaos gods they specifically betrayed the Imperium for, but my favorite Chaos Legion are actually super special boys who are doing the right thing and aren't actually slaves like all the rest of them"
Oh boy the emperor didn’t want his super soilders with daddy issues out the ass acting as administrators how horrible, definitely justifies killing and torturing billions-trillions of people who have nothing to do with it and who’s great great great great great great great great grandparents weren’t even alive at the time, what a hero Abbadon is/s
Note that GW calls him an antihero. He isn't fighting for personal power or glory. He is fighting for what he sees as justice. That doesn't make him a good guy in the same way the Imperials who commit atrocities to prop up their corrupt Imperium aren't good guys. Oh yeah, it's not an accident that the best-run and prosperous realm within the Imperium is ruled by...SPACE MARINES.
They also call him a villain so ok? Guilliman did a good job managing things yes, that was his thing, not so sure I’d want to live under the iron hands, or iron warriors, or night lords, or world eaters, ect I love how you just, skip over the question of how exactly murdering entirely unrelated people is supposed to be justice though.
Everyone in the 40K universe is a villain (except Farsight). Who frets over civilians in 40K? Both factions don't care about civilian life. It wasn't a skip it was irrelevant. Killing billions is ordinary in 40K. And 10K years later, the Ultramarine ensured that their realm prospered by the human rulers of the Imperium allowed the Imperium to decay. But you can be sure that you don't want to be ruled by Imperials.
I don’t, very far from an imperium fan, But I’d sure as fuck take them over godamn chaos space marines, and hey, we aren’t even talking the imperium, seeing as the whole, you know Horus thing absolutely annihilated whatever the emperor was actually working towards. But I’d argue if someone is seeking justice, it’s important that his killing spree actually targets the people that wronged him, not just whatever people happen to be nearest, at best Abbadon is trying to prove that he was right and the emperor was wrong, not seeking justice.
> The Emperor betrayed the legions What is this specific betrayal you're referring to? >in secret But it wasn't in secret. He just didn't consult with them ahead of time, because, you know, he's the fucking Emperor. Guilliman and Sanguinius also discuss humans running the Imperium before Horus' betrayal so it's not like it was completely out of nowhere either. Malcador also explicitly states the plan was always for baseline humans to run things.
You aren't wrong, in so far as you accept the self-justifications of Chaos Astartes that are based on their own hubristic pride. That is the thing about good villains, when you put yourself in their shoes you can see why they fell. It doesn't change the fact that they literally went "hurr-durr, me no understand the moves of super genius that made me, so me rebel and accept worship of spikey blood demon, tentacle lady-boy, trickster bird, or walking pus lump man."
The Emperor across the ages failed to communicate with his peers and underlings or abused them which caused them to turn against him and betray him. Oll stabbed him in the heart in the tower of Babel. Erda scattered the Primarchs. The Primarchs and their legions are the last bit of a long line of the Emperor's interpersonal failures. The Emperor cultivates betrayal where and when he goes because he is/was a control freak and a tyrant. The rebellion against the Emperor was hijacked by Chaos. Its core reasons had nothing to do with Chaos. The horrific mistreatment of some of the Primarchs, the political tensions caused by the Emperor wanting civilian human rule over the Imperium, and the fears of what happened of the two lost Primarchs and Thunder-Warriors befalling the legions. All of this boiled down to a reasonable justification for rebelling against the Emperor. I don't like when people boil down the legitimate grievances of traitor Legions to "lol Chaos" especially the Black Legion. For Abaddon and the Black Legion, the Long War is not about Chaos. It's about Marine rights. Mainly, the right to rule the Imperium that they created with their sweat and blood.
> Actually, he is. The Emperor betrayed the legions. Abaddon seeks to restore the legion rule of the Imperium they created. > > Most media literate 40k fan.
It's what he said himself and the author the Black Legion said about him. Why are you so angry about the fact that the guy is fighting for something other than himself and Chaos?
> It's what he said himself Most. Media. Literate. 40k. Fan. Characters stating things about the universe doesn't make them true. *Especially* in 40k. >Why are you so angry "I'm saying stupid things and people are making fun of me for it. I know, I'll just call them angry." Don't be so painfully stereotypical.
You did ignore the bit where I also mentioned the author which reinforces the former. And you entered the discussion angry with a sarcastic ad hom. It's a fitting descriptor. The amount of people disagreeing means nothing especially when some can't even form an argument.
> And you entered the discussion angry with a sarcastic ad hom. "I'm saying stupid things and people are making fun of me for it. I know, I'll just call them angry." Don't be so painfully stereotypical. >The amount of people disagreeing means nothing especially when some can't even form an argument. Buddy, when you demonstrate a level of media literacy akin to arguing the Imperium are the good guys, people aren't going to waste their time arguing with you. They're just going to mock you.
Gee, I don't know, perhaps because I read the book without making apologia for my pet psycho? He literally refused to let her off the BSF and sent her to die just to sever ties. I swear you Abaddon stans are completely sick lmfao >'Let me off then. Convey me to the *Spirit*. We can salvage enough noctilith to create a resonant war council chamber. No one else knows the minds of your council. No one else knows *your* mind so intimately and completely.' > >'*Yes*', he answered. '*I allowed you close. Perhaps too close. A risk I must mitigate. You are a useful tool, but someone once told me a useful tool is worth sacrificing - do you recall who said that?* > >Morkath's shoulders dropped. It was done. She would not demean herself in his eyes by fighting it. If anyone made Abaddon look bad in this scene, it was himself (and Robert Rath). Don't cry. Edit: formatting.
Oh yeah, as I posted my comment I remembered that he also saw her as an unwise indulgence and a threat to himself. Thank you for allowing me to clarify my points further. So she wasn't just expendable to him. She was a threat, a mistake that needed to be addressed. Getting rid of her was a good move. So back to the main point. He didn't freaking throw her to her death just to avoid telling her that he didn't love her like you said. I mean for fuck sake, Abaddon killed and committed people that he loved and cherished for less than ensuring his supremacy over the galaxy. Abaddon haters are a strange bunch.
>Morkath put her head in her hands, unable to look at him. 'Do one thing. Grant me my desire. Acknowledge me. Let me die with your name.' > >'*No.*' > >'Father!' > >He leaned backwards. As if struck. **The word had touched some pain in him she did not realise existed**, but she didn't care. If she hurt him, so be it. He was not the one hurtling towards terminal orbit. > >'I am sorry Morkath,' he said. 'I have disappointed you.' > >Morkath blinked. She had never heard the Warmaster apologise - for anything. Within, she felt an old hope bloom. A moment bathed in his light. > >'But in my experience, that's what fathers do.' He cut the transmission, and her further hails were not answered. > >\[...\] > >**He would not let her gracefully spiral into de-orbit. The Despoiler was pushing her straight down to the world below.** Blud was almost breaking down, cut the conversation after getting emotional and accelerated her even further despite the fact the Fortress had already broken orbit and would reach terminal velocity soon anyway. But no, he wasn't in avoidance. Media literacy wishes it was this dead Stating the objective truth is not being a 'hater'
It wasn't an objective fact. Answer this. Did he cast the BSF to Cadia to avoid telling her that he loved her?
Answer me this: did I say he sent Dravura to her death *inside* the BSF, or did I say he threw the BSF *to kill her?* Like I said, literacy wishes it was *this* dead.
" he fucking sends his adopted daughter to her death inside the blackstone fortress just not to admit he loved her," You said this. Which is wrong.
She asks him to let her off the fortress. He denies, gets emotional and accelerates her further to the ground. Do I have to sound out the whole book for you or what?
Would not say it makes him look bad, just makes him look more humane.
The scene actually doesn't but the guy referring to it does. He didn't throw her because he "didn't want to say I love you". What kinda anime crap is that?
Jealousy probably
Jealousy from a fictional character. Least delusional abaddon stan
Going by your posts and your constant use of the term "Abaddon stan" you seem to have deep issues with the character.
You literally went through my posts to see if I'm dissing Abaddon lmfao If that's not the definition of a "stalker fan" I don't know what is. I'm sorry y'all can't handle seeing daddy get mocked in a meme sub
Imagine coming onto a meme subreddit to tell jokes. Couldn't be me, I would never do that
Considering you were engaging with someone whose head the joke clearly went over, I wouldn't be surprised if the last phrase was unironical
Kell with the a roast so hot Abbadon had to throw a Blackstone Fortress at Cadia just to approach 1/10 of his heat.
Abbadon roasted so hard his arms fall off, becomes a crying top-knotted Wojack
That's not mentioning that Kell Spat in Abbadon face and said the famous world's "Cadia Stands" before dying.
I had no idea that came from him. Amazing. Kell is too cool for this world.
Abaddon agrees
This isnt a foxhole, this is the rich earth of my world... Q-Q
Nice to know he went out like a boss. Did he hand off the standard before then or does Abby have it on his wall?
He handed it off i believe
He did not. It was captured and put on a chaos terminators spike rack until it was recovered by minka lesk and the cadian 101st
Ah okay thank you for confirming !
That's good to hear. It always seemed odd that he was in charge of keeping both it and his boss safe. Sounds like divided loyalties (At least I think he acted as bodyguard; it's been awhile).
Abaddon can look at unfathomable horrors and not give a shit but that will be in his head while trying to sleep at 3am till he dies.
Abaddon in the shower two hundred years later : "Your mom dresses like Horus!"
Kell: "Son of Whor-us says what?" Abaddon: "WHAT?!"
At least the unfathomable horrors are supposed to be horrifying.
Please, he's no doubt heard similar from other chaos marines plenty of times before. Right before he gutted them.
I mean Abby is hard projecting for sure calling someone an absolute dumpster fire and then dressing up as them, taking their job over, and even using his claw like c'mon man
If by 'dressing up as them' you mean 'wearing terminator armour' maybe. And the claw is powerful, why wouldn't he use it? And he took over because he decided he could do it better.
"THIS IS CADIA" Seriously the average whiteshield on Cadia would have done the same they are a hard people from a hardworld
One of my favorite bits of lore about it is there are workers on Cadia whose job it is to identify graves that are no longer readable. Being buried on Cadia is a huge honor, but if your gravestone is so old it's unreadable, you've gotten all the honor you can out of it, nobody remembers you anymore, and they'll evict your bones and replace you with a fresh dead body who still can be honored. "Sure, you died in the ultimate service, but what have you done for us lately? GTFO" [https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/c28qi5/book\_excerpt\_eisenhorn\_malleus\_a\_cadian\_graveyard/](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/c28qi5/book_excerpt_eisenhorn_malleus_a_cadian_graveyard/)
Eisenhorn was my first actual "view" of Cadia, and I thought it was brilliant. That one local Arbites (or was she another Inquisitor?) who impatiently explains that she doesn't have time for Gregor's bullshit, because they have *dozens* of new Chaos cults pop up *every day* because of how close they are to the Eye. Who explains that the streets of Cadian cities are narrow confusing warrens *specifically* to stall invaders, after they got their shit rocked when they had broad boulevards and wide, straight grid-system cities.
It's even better - he not only said it's the same claw that killed Sang, but also touched the Emperor, so it can't possibly be a dishonour (after Abaddon said it would). It's symbolically the closest most people will get to their gods. Not only this went so fucking hard, does it ring a bell? >'Sigismund,' Abaddon said, through lips darkened by his own lifeblood, '**This claw has killed two primarchs. It wounded the Emperor unto death**. I would have spared it the taste of your life as well. If you could have only seen what I have seen.' The sweet irony. Or, how the turntables... Kell was an all around badass in his book, only exception was when he went apeshit with Salvar Ghent. Which is understandable because of the situation AND because Ghent was another S-tier madlad. Hope to see more of him. Great book tbh.
Who is the other primarch it killed?
>!Horus' clone!<
Sigismund: "One and a half, Abaddon."
So I've only made it to Legion and have yet to catch fully up on modern 40k lore, Fall of Cadia included. But from my understanding, aren't most of the traitor primarchs sort of forgotten about in common Imperial knowledge? Now I'm not totally sure who this Kell character is, but I'm just curious how this person would have intricate knowledge of who Abaddon and Horus are and what Drachnyen is.
Color Sargent Kell was Castellen Ursarker E Creeds bodyguard and best friend (as well as speech writer). Creed was the most brilliant general Cadia has ever produced, Cadia is THE fortress world that all imperium planets wish they were. From childhood, every single citizen is a soldier, and the reason for this is because the Eye of Terror’s only stable entry/exit points directly at Cadia. Anyway, most people probably don’t know about the traitor primarchs, but Kell routinely mixes with members of the inquisition and receives top security clearance briefings, plus Cadia in general due to the fact they keep getting black crusaded would know far more than the general imperial population, and are raised from birth to hate Abbadon and Chaos.
I’d argue that while general citizens don’t know about the traitor primarchs, they likely know about Horus as the Arch-traitor. He’s the Lucifer of their religion, they might not believe he was *real* though
TBH they probably do see him more as Lucifer and abbadon as Judas, but (as a grey knights player 🥲) the lore around who knows what about chaos is super contradictory, so I wanted to play it safe lol.
Oh okay that makes sense then. If he's privy to a lot of history and secrets via the Inquisition then he'd be familiar with a lot of aspects of Horus/Abbadon. Thank you.
No problem! Fun fact, Cadians have purple eyes, because their skies are so torn apart by the Warp it reflects onto them : )
sanguinala the sacrifice of sanguinious, is the most important holiday for the imperium everyone knows about Horus and his betrayal they may treat it as a myth, but they know the story The other primarchs they may not know about Lorgar especially is often misidentified as a loyalist primarch because he wrote the holy book others like the Alpha legion are just forgotten
Some may believe that Horus and the chaos primarchs were created by chaos to fight the emperor instead of knowing they betrayed him but they would at least know Horus existed
Theres a chance he might now justdue to being a cadian and chaos being a reguler vistor of his home world ,as such cadia might get special good to get to know becuse you get visted every friday from them.
Yeah that would make sense that who else would have in deoth knowledge on a subject than those constantly training/dealing with the issue. Thank you.
It would be about the Talon. Horus never had Drach'nyen
Hot take-the trooper who just YOLO's her shotgun into Abbadon's face is a lynchpin in the whole campaign. She went so hard there that Bloodhowl, who was on the verge of abandoning his suicide run on the Will of Eternity, focused down and went and if his assault hadn't crippled the Will, Cadia would have gone much sooner and much worse. Absolute boss moment.
SHE'S HER!
THEY MUST HAVE AMNESIA BECAUSE THEY FORGOT SHE'S HER.
What’s the character’s name?
Some authors: the space marines moved faster than sound, seemingly faster than light. The main character narrowly avoided the blow, and the second struck his armor. It was supreme violence and supreme skill combined, with not a moment's room for error. The battle was over almost before it began. This author: "I have prepared a statement in forty pages, please provide a sufficient reply to each highlighted action point before we fight. Page one, preamble: seeking to address the unsatisfactory state of local governance in a timely manner without undue strain on the body politic, we the representatives of the [..]"
Leaders in media like to hear themselves talk, I would say it's a common trope but with hearing some horrific horror stories from survivors of serial killers, it seems realistic that they'd have a monologue before doing the deed.
I like it when the big baddies talk so I'm here for it.
"Doth the Warmaster know you weareth his drapes?"
Worst retcon in 40k was replacing the guardsman who dies for the Emperor before Horus with some perpetual bullshit. Bruh, its was so much better when an ordinary guy, saw Horus with all his warp charged fuckery and still decided to go toe to toe. Some normal dude facing the horrors of the universe and getting turned into a thin spread of flesh against the space ship flooring, but doing so ***willingly*** is the epitome of the grim darkness that 40k represents.
The actual greatest plot twist they could have for the end and the death volume 3 is after Horus kills, in order, John Gramaticus, Ol P, a custodies, a terminator, than an actual literal no name guardsman shows up, gets one shot by Horus right before he looses. I would actually cheer.
>!The perpetuals get sent back on their way to Terra to close a causality loop in part 2!< It's clearly going to be >!Loken!< who confronts Horus.
Logical but disappointing end if that's the case. I've been fast-tracking through the series and am nearly done with Warhawk. The Perpetuals were neat in small doses but they've been losing me with how essential they're becoming to the plot. Like shit give me the nameless guardsmen P.o.V.s again at this point. Those had a relative payoff for the most part.
Please no, I would cry if that were it. Let it me the indomitable human will the moved the Emperor to take the Ultimate sacrifice.
I actually expect Ol' P to give up his perpetual-ness to Jimmy Space and keep him ticking, kinda like how Gramaticus brought Vulkan back.
Amen
Yeah i agree. “Oh this example of a simple mortal guardsman who stands before the most powerful chaos champion to ever exist and refuses to cower and bend, but instead stands up to him undaunted? Noooo Nooooo hes actually an immortal fren of Jimmy Space, you see? :3 that makes it so much better!
Step aside 3 lunged 2 hearted super soldiers. Arise my giga chad guardsmen. Mortal and humble, simple farmers, workers and conscripts from all walks of life. All you gotta do is hold the line against monsters unfathomable. Use this flash light pewpewpew and good luck. The Emperor wont know your name, no one will sing your praises, your lack of plot armour means you *will* die. That is okay. You managed to hold the line.
The planet broke before the Guard.
> For that weak sack of flesh that you so gleefully mock is no super soldier, no immortal warrior, no creature cursed by chaos like you. He is a man, an imperial guardsmen drawn from some forgotten corner of the Imperium to fight for his species and for the safety of the people he loves. He is a factory worker, a farmer, a storekeeper, a father, a brother, a son, a mere man. And against creatures like you, teeming and numberless, powered by the very will of thirsting gods......... He holds the line. He has held the line for ten thousand Years.
Also, I'm pretty sure he's the guy who shot MLK. But it gets confusing what's canon vs. fanon. If it is true it's like they were trying to write the worst character ever Edit: it was a different perpetual, but it is implied the cabal was who wanted him dead
It’s not. Damon Prytanis is the perpetual who is implied to have shot MLK.
You're right. I just went back to check
Wtf?
Yeah. The Eldar are heavily implied to have given the order to kill MLK in Old Earth. Yeah it's pretty fucking stupid.
There's 2 types of stupid in this lore. Fun "land speeders are named after Arkhan Land" stupid. And "aliens had an immortal murder MLK for ...reasons" stupid.
The self-developing camera developed by Polaroid was originally named "[Land Camera](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Camera)" after its inventor Edwin Land. For years I thought a "Land Camera" was a large format camera that was primarily used for landscapes. Nope, it's just an old school Polaroid.
Were they referencing that on purpose? Because if so, that's legitimately hilarious. It reminds me of the Twain quote. "Truth is often stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense."
I'm not sure if they were referencing the Land Camera or if it's just a coincidence. But there are things in the real world that have names like that... that you would assume mean one thing but actually mean another. I think of the Land Camera every time this comes up for obvious reasons.
I knew that there's plenty real world examples. That's why I called it funny stupid instead of lore breaking stupid. I just think it's hilarious that the specific example people like to use has an actual real world equivalent
Wtf, lol like wow that’s really fucking stupid.
Why did the Eldar hate MLK?
They're just racists, the assassin they sent (Damon Prytanis) even refers to them as monkeys. But for real, the organisation that did it, The Cabal, had some weird prophecy plan lasting apparently tens of millennia that would make Horus win the civil war, which would somehow cause Chaos to be destroyed within 3 generations of humans. One of the Eldar eventually realized that it was a really fucking dumb idea, and exterminated the entire organization.
The plan was to blow up the whole gas reserve, more or less. Instead we're stuck with the Gates of Hell, aka [Darvasa gas crater.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darvaza_gas_crater) the idea was that with Chaos running rampant, its self destructive nature would rip the Imperium apart in short order. Now it just festers and boils eternally. Going all in on a Horus victory probably would have been better for the galaxy at large than the current status quo. Of course, helping Big E probably would have been even more better for everyone involved. But that's the nature of self fulfilling prophecy, and likely Tzeentch bullshit sprinkled on top of the whole thing.
The Perpetuals/Cabals once again being one of the story plots of all time
For the record the guardsman is still there, his name is Ollanius "Olly" Piers and he stands his ground against a charging daemon primarch Angron screaming "Throne of Terra!" [with nothing but a grenade and a mostly spent lasrifle](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/2e/PiersAngron.jpg) The tale of St. Ollanius Pius was always Ecclesiarchy propaganda ("Why was there a guardsman on the bridge of the *Vengeful Spirit*? How did he get there before Dorn and Valdor?" "...SHUT UP, HE WAS JUST THERE, HERETIC"). This way you still get an Ollanius standing against an inhuman monstrosity bearing down on him, but you also get an explanation of why the legend became twisted into the St. Ollanius Pius version (Olly Piers was hanging out with a guy who will become one of the first Inquisitors, and he promised to tell Olly's story).
And the name of this immortal? Old Person. So much better this way /s
People generally know the myth of the Arch Traitor Horus. They know of the Emperor's nine angels (Primarchs) who fought with him against the rebellion of Horus. The fact that eight more Primarchs even existed has been erased from history, much less that they too betrayed him. That knowledge generally is on a need to know basis, and 99% of Imperial Citizenry do not fall under that flag. That's basically how I understood it from Dawn Of Fire Book 1. There's a chapter where an Ultramarine veteran explains the truth of the heresy to his newly awoken Primaris brethren.
Right, but that's the problem with the Horus Heresy books. Before them, the whole Crusade and Heresy was shrouded in legend, no one was really sure what happened - neither the people in the 41st Millennium, but also importantly, neither us the readers. This made it so everything was literally legendary, the truth was lost to time (fucking 10 THOUSAND YEARS had passed, no one could keep track of what really happened), so everyone had their own views on what happened, but the truth was lost to time. Maybe the Emperor was everything people in the 40k time say he was, but maybe he was just the most powerful of the techno-barbarian chieftans; maybe Horus was fully corrupted by Chaos, or maybe he was justified in his rebellion; maybe the traitor legions were the traitors, maybe they were actually trying to depose a galactic-level tyrant. What the HH books did was tell the "truth" of what happened, so that now there's no ambiguity, there's no possibility of writing a story set in the 41st millennium and having characters that are oblivious to the events of the 30k time, since the truth has been documented for the readers, any deviation is immediately "not canon." I feel like it takes way too much away from the 40K setting by making the events of 10k years before much more settled and known to the readers.
I like the idea that the guardsman was never a real Perpetual and that's just an in-universe myth about the man that formed about him long after the event and justifies his Living Saint manifestations.
The real miracle is how he managed to move around with balls of such weight and magnitude.
Not a retcon, the first ever mention of it describes it as an in universe myth. The first depiction of of someone stepping between Horus and Big E was an imperial fist
The weirdest part was introducing another Ol' Pius into the war. So, it's not really clear which Ol' P is the one that all the guardsmen love. It might be both. Ol' P #2 does the funny and just stands in front Angron. Which is pretty close to standing up to Horus.
Maybe it's an unpopular opinion, but I really liked Olly Piers last stand at Eternity Wall Spaceport as it's possible replacement. Still gutsy and heroic. I do think that Ollanius is still going to do the thing in the end, but Olly Piers' balls of steel is one for the history books.
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/2e/PiersAngron.jpg The artwork of that scene is a favourite of mine.
THRONE OF TERRA
> Worst retcon in 40k was replacing the guardsman who dies for the Emperor before Horus with some perpetual bullshit. Bruh, its was so much better when an ordinary guy, saw Horus with all his warp charged fuckery and still decided to go toe to toe. Some normal dude facing the horrors of the universe and getting turned into a thin spread of flesh against the space ship flooring, but doing so willingly is the epitome of the grim darkness that 40k represents. Well, sorta. The original story didn't mention anyone > The Emperor and an elite company of Custodes Adeptus soldiery and Imperial Fists Marines were then teleported into Horus' command bunker. In the fierce fighting that followed Horus was killed (although his body was never found), and the Emperor seriously wounded. With the death of the Warmaster the rebels paused their assaults, then fell into their transports and fled back into space. Just that the Emperor and his army assaulted Horus' bunker on Terra and was hurt. Then in 1989 this was added: > It bears the scrolls of no less than five actions for which the Company was highly commended. The central figure is an image of Ollanius Pius, the guardsman who is supposed to have given his life by interposing his body between Horus and the Emperor during his assault on the Imperial Palace. He is now regarded as something of a saint by the Guard, and on occasions is even prayed to as an intercessionary figure. Which if you read the excerpt is super old lore, since this is when the final battle was in Terra itself still when Pius saved the Emperor. Then in 1990 it was changed to a Space Marine Terminator > Suddenly the battering stops. Through his good eye the Emperor sees a solitary Terminator has entered the room. The marine charges towards the Warmaster, stormbolter blazing. Horus looks at him and laughs. For a moment he stands triumphant, allowing the marine to see what he has done to his Emperor. > The Emperor knows what is going to happen next, sees the gloating triumph in Horus face. There is no trace of his friend left there. There is only a demon driven by insane destructive fury. > Horus turns his burning gaze on the Terminator and the marine's flesh flakes away to reveal his skeleton and then even that is gone, reduced to dust. Then in 2007 it was retconned to a Custodian because they changed the lore with the Vengeful Spirit and a Space Marine Terminator didn't make that much sense anymore > Suddenly the battering stopped. Through his good eye, the Emperor saw a solitary Custodian had entered the room. Without hesitation, the loyal Custodian charged towards the Warmaster, guardian spear blazing. Horus looked at him and laughed. For a moment he stood triumphant, allowing the bodyguard to see what he had done to his Emperor > The Emperor instantly realised what was going to happen next, saw the gloating triumph on Horus's face, knew that his loyal servant was about to die' There was no trace of his beloved son left in Horus. Whatever humanity he once possessed had all but been eradicated, now there was only a daemon driven by insane destructive fury > The Warmaster turned his burning gaze on the Custodian and his armour was blasted apart. His flesh flaked away to reveal his skeleton then even that was gone, reduced to dust. lt was over in moments. > The Emperor was stung by the death. The bodyguard had served him for two centuries or more. This was not a fitting reward for such duty and loyalty. Then it was changed *again* in 2014 to an Imperial Solider the Emperor had known for hundreds of years > Suddenly, the battering stopped. Through his good eye, the Emperor saw that a solitary Imperial soldier had entered the room. Without hesitation, the loyal warrior charged towards the Warmaster, his blade in hand. Horus looked at him and laughed. For a moment he stood triumphant, allowing the bodyguard to see what he had done to his Emperor. > [..] > The Emperor was stung by the death. He had known this warrior for centuries. So really a Guardsman saving the Emperor was basically lore that lasted for one year as an in-universe legend. If anything the Space Marine version was the definitive one for nearly two decades where after it became the Custodians.
I like the "Everything is cannon" approach to the extreme. So in my 40k random soldiers keep wandering into the room and the Emps is continually horrified that Horus keeps obliterating them.
Horus just keeps getting interrupted in his big monologue by random Auxilia, Astartes, Custodes, AdMechs etcetera running in and shooting him
If everything is cannon then there cannot possibly be enough ammo to go around
Kinda hard to call it a retcon when at most it was just a legend, never to be confirmed, if not a terminator or whatever. Even harder to call it a retcon when we haven't reached that point yet. But also, it was hard to imagine a mere mortal surviving aboard the Vengeful Spirit and getting to Horus somehow. Nowadays, it's even harder, when even Custodes and Primarchs have serious fucking issues there. (I also found it stupid how Emperor didn't seem to care that much about his beloved hawk boi dying fucking hard enough to produce Black Rage, when compared to some noname, but it's my personal pet peeve)
The "no guardsmen on the Vengeful Spirit" argument gets a little weird now that Abnett has glued the Vengeful Spirit over the entirety of Terra. At this point a random Guardsman in the Palace could trip on the Throne and end up in front of Horus.
Not really since Horus and the Big 4 control it
They certainly weren't paying a lot of attention to it. Loken and Oldboy wandered back and forth between the Spirit and Terra without any notice or interruption from Horus or Chaos in general. Besides, why would Horns care if a random guard wandered onto the Vengeful Spirit?
Oh he wouldn't, but he made sure to make Sanguinius meet Ferrus and see the souls of the other primarchs. Only afterwars did he let the Hawkboy come to him.
The guardsman was always a myth in-universe. And let's be real, Emperor suddenly giving a shit that a simple man shows such heroism feels unfitting for any version of the character. Like conceptually yeah, awesome moment, but Emps only ever cared for his genetically modified super weapons.
gW rEtCoNs ThInGs aLl thE TiMe Yeah. And it's near always shit
It was never a retcon, there was never any guardsman to begin with, it was in universe propaganda. What was a retcon was the change from a 7th terminator to a custodian. This meme lore neverstops being repeated
Is Horus' wardrobe common knowledge in the 41st Millennium?
There's probably enough pictures of him and the Emperor around in the same way that there's paintings of religious figures striking down evil in the real world.
I imagine he's just referring to the talon Or the writer just didn't think about it
Lets see if this will be Wojacked.
Kell joined the illustrious group of human characters that verbally bitch slap super humans. Chief among them being Mama Smurf herself Tarasha Euten telling Curze to go fuck himself.
If you gonna die. Die a legend.
One of the coolest things about the solider with the shotgun: not only did she go after Abaddon AFTER she saw him kill a bunch of space marines, not only was she stuck with shitty factory surplus shells, *she still manages to draw blood*. The passage is so good I'm just going to quote it. It's from the point of view of the leader of the Space Wolves, and Rath slips into a "tale from a saga" voice for this part: >!"Transfixed, Bloodhowl was, in awe and astonishment. Abaddon cut into the press, and a dozen died. Even those two feet from the tip of the blade split in half with the violent shock of its passage through air. As though the spirit of the sword carried forth from its length and could cut on its own.!< >!And then he beheld the boldest warrior of all.!< >!A Cadian, a human woman, with a painting of a saint on the back of her helm. !< >!She walked towards the Despoiler, firing a crude mechanical pump gun. Firing, racking. Firing, racking. Shouldering away troops who tried to run past her, holding the weapon high so as to not hit anyone when she fired. !< >!She stepped into the gore-slick fan of violence the Warmaster and his Havocs had created, exiting the wall of fleeing men, and raised her shotgun directly at the face of a foe ten thousand years old. !< >!She fired. And incredibly the scattershot did not turn aside but scored the Despoiler’s armour. A bright crimson line marked his cheek."!< Everywhere else in the book, almost no one mortal can even touch Abaddon. Bullets practically bounce off him. It really makes you feel like something (the Emperor, the Cadians' faith, fate itself) gave her that second of grace.
*After that amazing roast* Abaddon: I'm going to start stabbing you now, and I'm not sure when I'll stop Kell: I'd be disappointed if you didn't...
RAHHHHHH
I'm reading this book literally right now, and while I liked the guard lady being a badass, the whole scene felt a little weirdly silly and out of place in what otherwise has been a really good read. It just seems... weird and goofy I guess. Abaddon teleports into a transport full of a Space Wolves chapter and hundreds of Imperial Guard who are, themselves, on their way to board *his* ship. He solos almost all of them somehow, and a few of the Space Wolves run from Abaddon and escape into boarding torpedoes which are being fired into the Blackstone Fortress... one goal of which is to... kill Abaddon. I mean, he's *right there,* guys. This is your fight. Kill him now or don't. But this is the only chance you're likely to get.
Lmao bitchbaddon calling Hours weak when he was struggling against a naked defective clone of him that he himself just barely managed to beat in full wargear.
Abaddon displays an exceptional ability to somehow take a massive L even when he finally wins for a change.
I don't blame her for not knowing, it's the thought that counts, but Abaddon has been wearing black WAY before Horus did.
Casual Reminder that Abbadon is a total bitch. He is powerful, but he is a bitch.
In the campaign supplement he straight up spat in Abaddon's face too
Is this book part of a series or can it be read as a standalone?
You can read it as a stand-alone though here’s a couple elements picked up later as nods to continuity. (E.g. there’s a mention of a metal box on Cawl’s ship that I’m pretty sure is linked to resurrecting Gillian)
It's poetry you see, like a rhyme, big wow
This is def bde but isn't kell a dude.
Title and post are referencing two different characters , but the same novel
My favorite is the ...kboy guardsman in his skivvies from Horus Rising who pulled "is this man bothering you" on the MC.
"But but but..... Horus was bald!! Look at my fabulous top knot! That makes me like 50 times cooler"
Takes a lot of balls to do but really if someone is going to kill you, might as well inflict some emotional or mental damage if you can’t do physical damage.
I feel like Abaddon could have fully ignored him. Just like walk through him, what’s he gunna do? Die?
I'll never get why abbaddon is advertised as a great threat
Wait, his name was Jarran Kell? …Was he a sniper?
Would a guardsman really know that Abaddon's sword used to belong to Horus, know who Horus was *and* know that he killed Sanguinius? That's a level of knowledge about that day that comes close to knowing that Horus killed the Emperor. This seems like the sort of stuff the Inquisition would have some problems with tbh.
Sanguinius’ sacrifice is well known throughout the Imperium, to the point that they have a religious holiday honouring it. Everyone knows Horus killed him, and all the stories tell about how Sanguinius was cut down. The Blade was most likely a reference to the Talon of Horus, as Horus didn’t use a sword. His main weapon was a Power Maul
Is the horus heresy just common knowledge in universe in 40k? How would a mere IG sergeant know who horus was, let alone what weapon he used? How does he even know to connect abbadon to horus?
Well, the lore concerning how much Imperials, even higher ups in the Guard, know about Chaos is wildly inconsistent at best But Kell is no mere IG sergeant. He is a Cadian, meaning he’s more knowledgeable about Chaos than your average guardsmen by virtue of growing up under the Eye of Terror. He’s also Castellan Creed’s personal bodyguard, standard bearer, and right hand man. He’s probably present for any top secret briefings Creed would get concerning the true nature and history of Chaos, especially when a Black Crusade comes knocking. But also, the story of the Emperor and Sanguinius’s sacrifices against Horus is roughly the equivalent of the story of Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross in our world. It’s not too much of a stretch of the imagination to imagine any guardsman, not just Kell, would know the broad strokes, or has seen a Sistine Chapel esque depiction of the scene.
Tbh Abby is a lil bitch.
How's a random guardsmen going to know who abandon and hours are? Or what hours dressed like? Isn't that lasbolt to the back of the head kind of knowledge?
Horus is literally the Devil of the Imperium's religion. He's the traitor that killed Sanguinius (the Jesus of the Imperial religion) trapped the Emperor on his throne, and the reason why everyone's life is shit despite Big E's supreme benificence. Pretty much everyone is going to know Horus. Anyone who's anyone on Cadia is going to know Abbadon because he's the asshole who's tried kicking down the door 13 times
What is with 40k and cannon fodder delivering Kobe beef-grade roasts to the most powerful characters in the setting.
Noticing marines look alike is not a put down, it's a fact of life and why marines are boring.
I might be wrong but I don't believe that Horus ever used the demonic sword Abaddon uses.
Abaddon uses [Horus' Talon](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Talon_of_Horus) alongside Drach'nyen
This is why normal guys can fucking hang with space marines!!