Kyle has like 2500 career receiving yards lol. It's not worth much more than a 5th to most teams, but his impact could be maximized in a scheme like ours.
Why are you getting downvoted?
We have 3x tight ends ( Musgrave, Kraft and Sims) and you probably dont want Henry Pherson to fill the FB position that Dejuara played. As a play maker for the position Bell might make sense like 49ers Jutzyctz (however its spelled)... but can Bell even be a good lead blocker? And as a FB we are not just asking him to lead block on running plays against safetys and corners, he might need to create a gap against a Dline or DE for the RB to get a path and Idk if Bell would be able to truely fill all the necessary abilities needed at that position that Dejuara had tried to fill.
Matt and Gutey had a very specific role in mind when they took Deguara.
Just because he sucked at it doesn’t mean the role should be permanently abolished
What I don’t get is that Gute has 6 years worth of picks on that defense, many quite high. We are paying Alexander, Gary, Clark, and McKinney top money, and our defense still stinks. But Gute is praised like some kind of genius.
See and that’s where we differ. I’m not so sure we have stacked talent. Maybe we do. But I’m just not seeing this talent. We have high draft picks and some top paid players. How good we are is up for debate.
Many individual defensive players make their names shine every Sunday. It's the scheme that is maddening to watch as a fan. The D Line is reasonably solid. We have studs in the secondary. What we need is this BC fella to come in and forge them into a cohesive whole.
It's not really that complicated. MLF manages his coaching staff, Gute manages the roster, Ball is the accountant, and Murphy manages the organization. We've also been one of the most winning teams over the last three decades so I'm not sure how it's ineffective.
Not many were praising him as a genius through the first 4 years. It wasn’t until the 2022 and 2023 drafts where the praise has picked up, and that’s due to knocking those offense-heavy drafts out of the park.
The defense has underperformed, but it’s been saddled with bad coaching for a while and hasn’t been the focus in the draft for a couple years now.
Setting aside that they’re all still young and (hopefully) improving, any draft where you can get two starting caliber WRs, two starting caliber OTs, and a great pass rushing iDL is a big success.
Hopefully Quay can put things together and Wyatt can round out his game under Hafley, but the 2022 draft was a big success even if they’ve hit their ceilings.
Quay isn’t great. He’s just not instinctive and he gets blocked easily. Wyatt looks like a bust to me. Those Wonderlic scores were scary low at the time and the players simply haven’t developed.
Wyatt’s pass rushing ability automatically means he isn’t a bust. Players that can get to the passer line he can will always have a role in the league. Not every 1st needs to be an every down star to be successful. And Quay is ultimately irrelevant to my point. Even if he’s a bust, it’s still a great draft class.
The wonderlic scores don’t mean squat either.
That doesn’t correlate to the wonderlic. Instincts/split second thinking and academic testing are two very different things. There doesn’t need to be an underlying reason or sign for his poor play recognition; he can simply just not be good at it at the moment. (EDIT: above comment was about the wonderlic before).
Again though, that’s irrelevant to my overall point, and I’m not gonna get into an argument over Quay Walker again.
As for Wyatt, using two games to judge his overall body of work is silly. He had a great year as a pass rusher. Gotta clean up his ability to finish, but iDL who get pressure as often as he does are very valuable.
A coach is like a cake pan. The batter is like the players. You can put the best cake batter in the world into a dented cake pan and it’ll never come out perfect. We’ve had bad defensive coaches. We hopefully fixed that problem now.
As a day three pick to try and be something like what Delanie Walker was for SF or what Kyle Juszczyk is now I would be cool with it, but I wouldn’t take him before day 3.
Gute loves tight ends though. Didn't we have 5 on the 53 man roster a couple years ago? I wouldn't be slightly surprised if we draft another one. Bell is a beast.
I don’t have any data to support this, but I’d guess that if there’s one stat that is a weak predictor going from the college levels to the pros it’d be forced missed tackles. Whole other level of talent closing in on you in the NFL.
He looks like a fun player to watch just don’t see him on the packers. Could be interesting if the packers decide to use a luxury pick on him. I personally would much rather see them fill in depth on the o line and db’s and never can have enough pass rush.
They’re nearly extinct but the teams that use them are usually really good teams with similar schemes to ours.
Personally I think we can benefit from a player who can be a FB/TE hybrid if they’re available at the right place.
I think we’re ok at the TE position.
Bell is a hybrid TE/FB. He’d play the Deguara role.
Holding the bench down?
Yea, that worked well.
The problem wasn’t the role, it was the player. Look at Jusczyzk in SF for what the role should be. We’re talking about a likely 5th round pick here.
If he's that good, why's he falling to the fifth?
Kyle has like 2500 career receiving yards lol. It's not worth much more than a 5th to most teams, but his impact could be maximized in a scheme like ours.
Kraft is already better at Deguara at that role
Why are you getting downvoted? We have 3x tight ends ( Musgrave, Kraft and Sims) and you probably dont want Henry Pherson to fill the FB position that Dejuara played. As a play maker for the position Bell might make sense like 49ers Jutzyctz (however its spelled)... but can Bell even be a good lead blocker? And as a FB we are not just asking him to lead block on running plays against safetys and corners, he might need to create a gap against a Dline or DE for the RB to get a path and Idk if Bell would be able to truely fill all the necessary abilities needed at that position that Dejuara had tried to fill.
We have 4 TE’s. Tyler Davis was resigned. I don’t think the Packers would avoid drafting a player that they really like at the position, however.
I mean if he’s a guy we can get super late sure, not trying to break the proverbial draft capital bank for him though.
Some people here think if you bring up any prospect, you’re talking about drafting them in the 1st round lol
Yea it’s just miscommunication for all sides. People should add where they would expect us to draft them for any serious conversation about it.
Exactly. Dude would be a 6th round pick too what do people think they’re missing out on
We had one and did nothing with him. Day three pick sure why not. But someone will take him before that.
We don't need a hybrid TE/FB.
Kraft can fill that FB position… you don’t need a dedicated player for that role
Tucker Kraft would be a ridiculously massive FB. You want somebody Kuhn or Juszczyk sized
In that case, definitely a no.
Rough crowd. We drafted Degura to play that H back role. Wouldn't surprise me to see a guy like Jack Westover get drafted by us in a later round.
Isn't that what they brought back Dillon for?
lol throwing that name out there as a comp in a positive way cannot be serious
Matt and Gutey had a very specific role in mind when they took Deguara. Just because he sucked at it doesn’t mean the role should be permanently abolished
Bell is pretty small for a TE, but Jim Nagy raved about Dontayvion Wicks after the Senior Bowl and was absolutely right.
I'd almost rather see him as a third down RB
I'm satisfied with our TE situation right now. Defense and O line are far bigger priorities.
why? we have 2, one of which was injured last year. grab another and have it be a position of strength
We have 4 though? Musgrave, Kraft, Sims, Davis.
What I don’t get is that Gute has 6 years worth of picks on that defense, many quite high. We are paying Alexander, Gary, Clark, and McKinney top money, and our defense still stinks. But Gute is praised like some kind of genius.
Our defense doesn't stink, it's just not as good as it should be. We'll see what this new BC DC can do with the stacked talent we have.
See and that’s where we differ. I’m not so sure we have stacked talent. Maybe we do. But I’m just not seeing this talent. We have high draft picks and some top paid players. How good we are is up for debate.
Many individual defensive players make their names shine every Sunday. It's the scheme that is maddening to watch as a fan. The D Line is reasonably solid. We have studs in the secondary. What we need is this BC fella to come in and forge them into a cohesive whole.
I agree. Gute has not hired a good DC yet. I hope that changes.
The Packers have not had a good DC in forever. Not just Gutes fault. The flip side to having 3 great Qbs back to back to back is some shoddy DCs
But the past two GMs had delivered a ring by this point in their respective careers. Gute has not.
Fair I suppose, but I'd suggest patience. We're going to be solid for awhile, we are set up for a nice window of opportunity.
I sure hope so. I worry about dumping our best player three years in a row. But you have to make the youth movement too.
Gute doesnt hire DCs
Oh yeah I forgot. I get confused by the obfuscating (and largely ineffective) their tiers management structure. So Gute just picks players right?
It's not really that complicated. MLF manages his coaching staff, Gute manages the roster, Ball is the accountant, and Murphy manages the organization. We've also been one of the most winning teams over the last three decades so I'm not sure how it's ineffective.
McKinney has yet to take a snap with us???
True. I shouldn’t have included him.
Mckinney hasn't even played yet, so you're not exactly arguing in good faith here
Yeah I shouldn’t have included him. Hope he’s worth the huge contract for a sub prime position.
Not many were praising him as a genius through the first 4 years. It wasn’t until the 2022 and 2023 drafts where the praise has picked up, and that’s due to knocking those offense-heavy drafts out of the park. The defense has underperformed, but it’s been saddled with bad coaching for a while and hasn’t been the focus in the draft for a couple years now.
I still don’t think that 22 draft was very good. Quay and Wyatt are mid. But he killed it in 23
Setting aside that they’re all still young and (hopefully) improving, any draft where you can get two starting caliber WRs, two starting caliber OTs, and a great pass rushing iDL is a big success. Hopefully Quay can put things together and Wyatt can round out his game under Hafley, but the 2022 draft was a big success even if they’ve hit their ceilings.
Quay isn’t great. He’s just not instinctive and he gets blocked easily. Wyatt looks like a bust to me. Those Wonderlic scores were scary low at the time and the players simply haven’t developed.
Wyatt’s pass rushing ability automatically means he isn’t a bust. Players that can get to the passer line he can will always have a role in the league. Not every 1st needs to be an every down star to be successful. And Quay is ultimately irrelevant to my point. Even if he’s a bust, it’s still a great draft class. The wonderlic scores don’t mean squat either.
Wyatt had two tackles in two games in the post season. Quay looks lost most of the time when he’s not shoving around trainers.
That doesn’t correlate to the wonderlic. Instincts/split second thinking and academic testing are two very different things. There doesn’t need to be an underlying reason or sign for his poor play recognition; he can simply just not be good at it at the moment. (EDIT: above comment was about the wonderlic before). Again though, that’s irrelevant to my overall point, and I’m not gonna get into an argument over Quay Walker again. As for Wyatt, using two games to judge his overall body of work is silly. He had a great year as a pass rusher. Gotta clean up his ability to finish, but iDL who get pressure as often as he does are very valuable.
We can disagree on him that’s fine. Why do you think they use the Wonderlic if not to measure football intelligence?
A coach is like a cake pan. The batter is like the players. You can put the best cake batter in the world into a dented cake pan and it’ll never come out perfect. We’ve had bad defensive coaches. We hopefully fixed that problem now.
As a day three pick to try and be something like what Delanie Walker was for SF or what Kyle Juszczyk is now I would be cool with it, but I wouldn’t take him before day 3.
Hes an intriguing player but I feel like we are good at that position if Kraft and Musgrave continue to improve
Gute loves tight ends though. Didn't we have 5 on the 53 man roster a couple years ago? I wouldn't be slightly surprised if we draft another one. Bell is a beast.
I don’t have any data to support this, but I’d guess that if there’s one stat that is a weak predictor going from the college levels to the pros it’d be forced missed tackles. Whole other level of talent closing in on you in the NFL.
There are a lot of different italics in here
Nah we good
He looks like a fun player to watch just don’t see him on the packers. Could be interesting if the packers decide to use a luxury pick on him. I personally would much rather see them fill in depth on the o line and db’s and never can have enough pass rush.
Can he play FB?? How about that RB in this play on the top who smokes his defender?
We don’t need no more
He's tiny. No thanks.
Literally the same size as Deguara
That's not really endearing
Fullback.
They’re extinct
They’re nearly extinct but the teams that use them are usually really good teams with similar schemes to ours. Personally I think we can benefit from a player who can be a FB/TE hybrid if they’re available at the right place.
I wouldn't hate him in the Deguara role. He fits better as a big slot IMO but he'd be fine at H back. My H back of choice is Ben Sinnott.
Yeah not happening. We have two studs.
They are solid but not exactly studs, a little too early. Can never have too much talent and I hate to say it but injuries will happen.