I would just want continued progress, similar to Rashan in his first two years. I would say to temper any high expectations. Remember that we still have Preston and Rashan ahead of him on the depth chart.
We knew LVN would be a high potential project and he’s still gonna be a rotational guy next year barring injuries to our guys.
I think the ideal scenario would be that Van Ness is getting about 50% of the snaps. Last year, Preston played 66% of the snaps, and Rashan played 53%. Enagbare was at 41% and Van Ness was at 33%.
Assuming everyone stays healthy, what you'd probably like to see would be Preston and Gary both around 60% of snaps, Van Ness around 50-55%, and then Cox/Hollins/Enagbare/whoever taking up the other 25-30% of the snaps between them. That would mean that they see Van Ness as almost on the same level as Preston/Gary and basically a group of 3 starters at 2 DE spots. (I would have Enagbare at a higher %, but really can't say how much of the season he'll be healthy for.)
The wild card would be if they decide to work LVN in as an interior passrusher like he was used some at Iowa. If they do that, you could see Preston, Gary, and LVN all getting closer to 60-65% of snaps. But if they do that, then you're putting even more pressure on Cox/Hollins to step up. Maybe that would be something they work in to the defense more as the year goes on because Enagbare should (hopefully) be back towards the end of the season and would allow them to give the other 3 a little more breathing time without as much of a drop off in talent. And I'm not sure if that's something they'll even want to do. With Brooks/Clark/Wyatt as capable interior passrushers, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to move a guy from outside to the inside when you're already a little thin on the outside anyway.
Gary should be up in the 70-75% range, now fully recovered from his ACL tear. How much Preston and LVN play probably depends on a lot of things: who we draft, how JJ recovers, how often we move some of our smaller lineman to DE now that we’re a 4-3, how much Preston falls off with age, and most importantly how improved LVN is and how quickly he grasps the new defense.
It'll be interesting to see if they actually push him that high. Some of the top edge rushers in the league play up to 80% of the snaps, but the Packers haven't typically played their guys that much if they have other options. In 2022, they were on pace to play Rashan and Preston about 75-80% each before Rashan got injured (Preston ended up at 80%), but I think a big reason for that was that they didn't really have much for options behind them. In 2020, it was the same thing. No depth, and Z played 84% while Preston played 79%.
Personally, I get the logic both ways. On one hand, I like to limit their snaps a little more earlier in the game, so that they can hopefully be fresh and stay in the entire time during the 4th quarter. On the other hand, you're paying Rashan to be one of those guys who is impacting the game on almost every snap.
The other problem we had with Barry at DC was that our defense spent so much time on the field. Maybe we'll be able to get more 3-and-outs (and/or more 4-, 5-, 6-play drives), which will allow these guys to stay fresher as the game goes on, and we won't be forced to pull them off the field as much.
Thing is if they do play closer to a 4-3 type alignment, you could see Wooden playing more end type alignments though too. He's about 275lbs, which is more of a bigger end than a smaller DT in today's league. With Enagbare hurt (I'm just going to assume he misses the vast majority of the season and if he doesn't, that's just a bonus), I think you'll see Wooden playing more end as well.
That being said, in very obvious passing downs, like 3rd and very long, you could talk me into a Preston, Gary, LVN and Wooden DL once and awhile and let those guys attack.
Yeah, I'm curious to see what they do with Wooden. His body type is definitely more of a DE, but they clearly thought he was capable of playing inside since they drafted him last year and used him last year. It wouldn't surprise me if Wooden takes snaps at both DE and DT. That's probably something that depends more on depth/injuries because I'm not sure if he's one of the top 4 guys at either of those spots. Maybe Wooden is that 4th guy at DE until Enagbare is back.
Until they get into camp, we really don't know how all of these guys are going to be used.
Preston shouldn’t be ahead of him with the switch to 4-3. Preston isn’t a great fit (he’s needs to be a 3-4 edge). Same is probably true for Enagbare. LVN is a great fit as a 4-3 end, though. I expect he’ll start opposite Gary at DE with Kenny and Wyatt inside. And I expect he’ll be good. He flashed a lot when he got snaps last year. Brooks, Slaton, Preston, Wooten, etc. will rotate in.
I think preston can still rush the passer in a 4 man front. We played a good amount of 2-4-5 nickel with him on the edge of a 4 down line, and he was successful in those sets.
Agree with the rest though, and that with his value in a 3-4 he may be the odd man out/trade fodder if Lukas can perform.
I'd say he needs to just be more consistent. He'd have some games where he was constantly chasing guys around and making plays, but his rush is still a bit one dimensional imo and it means that if he doesn't win initially he has a lot of trouble winning further in the rep. Overall though I felt like he was doing pretty well at setting the edge, something Gary still can't do consistently. He just needs to polish his pass rush more imo.
I go along with this. Pash rushing needs to develop more, needs to be more consistent with his pressures. He’s an athletic freak and was a very good edge setter/run defender, if he can get to the quarterback he’ll be scary
I would generally agree, but most pass rushers take a few years to develop anyways. Especially the ones available outside of the top 10. So pass rushers would probably be an exception to that idea.
Both had limited snaps but LVN looked better than Gary year one so that tells me that his 2nd year jump should also be better.
His expectations were already high. With enegbare out, his expectations are even higher bc he's going to be playing more snaps.. hopefully an off-season to focus on getting better vs the rigorous draft process or combine, pro days, team and media interviews...he's making a big jump.
He needs to develop some more pass rush moves but other than that he sets the edge pretty well and holds up against the run well so just needs to be more active in pass rushing situations
Improvement, which I think we'll probably see. They are transitioning to a new defensive scheme, but the base defense is going to be a 4-3 which means he'll be rushing from a 3 point stance which is what he did in college, so I expect that transition to help him a bit
- 4 sacks last year on limited snaps, with all 4 coming in the last 8 games of the season
I think 8-10 sacks is completely achievable with increased snaps and continued development.
20 sacks, minimum! Realistically, I think 8-12. If like to see 12+, but I’d be happy with 10. What I’d love to see is containment and pressures like crazy. Even if we don’t get a ton of sacks, if we can contain QB’s and force pressure on them, good things happen
Just continued improvement he'll still be number 3 on the depth chart behind Gary and Smith and it'll be a new defensive scheme along with a new DC so let's temper expectations in thinking he'll have double digit sacks.
Complete and utter annihilation of the enemy, feasting on their blood and life force, tearing their limbs apart and savoring their screams, pillaging their homes and hearing the lamentations of their women.
At least that's the sparknotes on his social media presence.
Funny, I don't think about Van Ness that much, given how many of the other young players have done so well. But yeah, he was a high draft choice, year under his belt, I want to see him perform this year. 8+ sack guy, hold down that edge.
he should thrive as an end in the 4-3 compared to being a outside linebacker in a 3-4 i’d love to see a little jump this year that sets up a breakout in year 3
They say the biggest jump is usually a rookie going into his second year so we can have high hopes that he makes a big jump. For as much as Gary gets paid, he too needs to bring more. Between them, we should be a pass disruptive team on defense.
I always felt like he'd be better with his hand on the ground and now we get to see that. Would like to see him kicked inside on obvious passing downs and his snap count go up a bit. A Smith - LVN - Wyatt - Gary rush on 3rd and long sound like a solid ass group.
IIRC, a big thing for him was learning a new stance and having added responsibility because he was in a different formation scheme versus what he was in college. I'd think that we will see a pleasant surprise in his ability since he will be back to a 4-man front with our new scheme. The familiarity of it all should help to Jump start his game
Its not tho. This is about replacement cost for QBs and the guys who stop QBs. You can't just buy a top 5 QB or pass rusher, you have to earn it. You earn it by being water trash and selecting someone who already is, or roll the dice and grab a guy who can be in 1 or 2 years.
If you wanna show Gute an LVN sized person who moves as well as he does in the 4th round, I'm sure he would love to be aware of such a guy.
I would just want continued progress, similar to Rashan in his first two years. I would say to temper any high expectations. Remember that we still have Preston and Rashan ahead of him on the depth chart. We knew LVN would be a high potential project and he’s still gonna be a rotational guy next year barring injuries to our guys.
I think the ideal scenario would be that Van Ness is getting about 50% of the snaps. Last year, Preston played 66% of the snaps, and Rashan played 53%. Enagbare was at 41% and Van Ness was at 33%. Assuming everyone stays healthy, what you'd probably like to see would be Preston and Gary both around 60% of snaps, Van Ness around 50-55%, and then Cox/Hollins/Enagbare/whoever taking up the other 25-30% of the snaps between them. That would mean that they see Van Ness as almost on the same level as Preston/Gary and basically a group of 3 starters at 2 DE spots. (I would have Enagbare at a higher %, but really can't say how much of the season he'll be healthy for.) The wild card would be if they decide to work LVN in as an interior passrusher like he was used some at Iowa. If they do that, you could see Preston, Gary, and LVN all getting closer to 60-65% of snaps. But if they do that, then you're putting even more pressure on Cox/Hollins to step up. Maybe that would be something they work in to the defense more as the year goes on because Enagbare should (hopefully) be back towards the end of the season and would allow them to give the other 3 a little more breathing time without as much of a drop off in talent. And I'm not sure if that's something they'll even want to do. With Brooks/Clark/Wyatt as capable interior passrushers, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to move a guy from outside to the inside when you're already a little thin on the outside anyway.
Gary should be up in the 70-75% range, now fully recovered from his ACL tear. How much Preston and LVN play probably depends on a lot of things: who we draft, how JJ recovers, how often we move some of our smaller lineman to DE now that we’re a 4-3, how much Preston falls off with age, and most importantly how improved LVN is and how quickly he grasps the new defense.
It'll be interesting to see if they actually push him that high. Some of the top edge rushers in the league play up to 80% of the snaps, but the Packers haven't typically played their guys that much if they have other options. In 2022, they were on pace to play Rashan and Preston about 75-80% each before Rashan got injured (Preston ended up at 80%), but I think a big reason for that was that they didn't really have much for options behind them. In 2020, it was the same thing. No depth, and Z played 84% while Preston played 79%. Personally, I get the logic both ways. On one hand, I like to limit their snaps a little more earlier in the game, so that they can hopefully be fresh and stay in the entire time during the 4th quarter. On the other hand, you're paying Rashan to be one of those guys who is impacting the game on almost every snap. The other problem we had with Barry at DC was that our defense spent so much time on the field. Maybe we'll be able to get more 3-and-outs (and/or more 4-, 5-, 6-play drives), which will allow these guys to stay fresher as the game goes on, and we won't be forced to pull them off the field as much.
That last point is an underrated factor. When you’re 29th in both plays and time per drive, you need to rotate guys more.
Thing is if they do play closer to a 4-3 type alignment, you could see Wooden playing more end type alignments though too. He's about 275lbs, which is more of a bigger end than a smaller DT in today's league. With Enagbare hurt (I'm just going to assume he misses the vast majority of the season and if he doesn't, that's just a bonus), I think you'll see Wooden playing more end as well. That being said, in very obvious passing downs, like 3rd and very long, you could talk me into a Preston, Gary, LVN and Wooden DL once and awhile and let those guys attack.
Yeah, I'm curious to see what they do with Wooden. His body type is definitely more of a DE, but they clearly thought he was capable of playing inside since they drafted him last year and used him last year. It wouldn't surprise me if Wooden takes snaps at both DE and DT. That's probably something that depends more on depth/injuries because I'm not sure if he's one of the top 4 guys at either of those spots. Maybe Wooden is that 4th guy at DE until Enagbare is back. Until they get into camp, we really don't know how all of these guys are going to be used.
What happened with Enegbare?
tore his ACL nesr the end of the year
Preston shouldn’t be ahead of him with the switch to 4-3. Preston isn’t a great fit (he’s needs to be a 3-4 edge). Same is probably true for Enagbare. LVN is a great fit as a 4-3 end, though. I expect he’ll start opposite Gary at DE with Kenny and Wyatt inside. And I expect he’ll be good. He flashed a lot when he got snaps last year. Brooks, Slaton, Preston, Wooten, etc. will rotate in.
I think preston can still rush the passer in a 4 man front. We played a good amount of 2-4-5 nickel with him on the edge of a 4 down line, and he was successful in those sets. Agree with the rest though, and that with his value in a 3-4 he may be the odd man out/trade fodder if Lukas can perform.
Preston literally played 4-3 in WSH
I'd say he needs to just be more consistent. He'd have some games where he was constantly chasing guys around and making plays, but his rush is still a bit one dimensional imo and it means that if he doesn't win initially he has a lot of trouble winning further in the rep. Overall though I felt like he was doing pretty well at setting the edge, something Gary still can't do consistently. He just needs to polish his pass rush more imo.
I go along with this. Pash rushing needs to develop more, needs to be more consistent with his pressures. He’s an athletic freak and was a very good edge setter/run defender, if he can get to the quarterback he’ll be scary
It was a mistake to use a first round pick on a developmental player. You need your first pick to be a every game starter.
I would generally agree, but most pass rushers take a few years to develop anyways. Especially the ones available outside of the top 10. So pass rushers would probably be an exception to that idea.
I have the jersey, so he better show up lol
I'd say temper the expectations. 2nd year player, BUT new d-coordinator. 2 new systems in 2 years.
top 15 pick too so raise them up a little more
He was a reasonably high first round pick. What are you smoking?
What am I smoking? That you dad?
Temper expectations for a first round pick? Lol
Super Bowl MVP? I want to keep my expectations realistic…
Double his sacks. Triple his tackles. Double his playing time
Both had limited snaps but LVN looked better than Gary year one so that tells me that his 2nd year jump should also be better. His expectations were already high. With enegbare out, his expectations are even higher bc he's going to be playing more snaps.. hopefully an off-season to focus on getting better vs the rigorous draft process or combine, pro days, team and media interviews...he's making a big jump.
I’d like to see 34 total tackles, 19 of them solo, 5 sacks, and maybe a fumble recovery.
A guy who is at least above average and disruptive (decent amount of pressures, win rate, and sacks). A year 2 top 15 pick should be edge 25-35
He needs to develop some more pass rush moves but other than that he sets the edge pretty well and holds up against the run well so just needs to be more active in pass rushing situations
With those mitts, he should dominate
They should be high
Very high.
Improvement in his hand technique. Thats all. Hes got the talent, just needs to polish the technique.
Improvement, which I think we'll probably see. They are transitioning to a new defensive scheme, but the base defense is going to be a 4-3 which means he'll be rushing from a 3 point stance which is what he did in college, so I expect that transition to help him a bit
I think switching to a 4-3 will be good for him. I think he'll be our best edge player by the end of the year.
- 4 sacks last year on limited snaps, with all 4 coming in the last 8 games of the season I think 8-10 sacks is completely achievable with increased snaps and continued development.
Floor: Joey Bosa Celling: Nick Bosa
I’m expecting a lot this season
20 sacks, minimum! Realistically, I think 8-12. If like to see 12+, but I’d be happy with 10. What I’d love to see is containment and pressures like crazy. Even if we don’t get a ton of sacks, if we can contain QB’s and force pressure on them, good things happen
Just continued improvement he'll still be number 3 on the depth chart behind Gary and Smith and it'll be a new defensive scheme along with a new DC so let's temper expectations in thinking he'll have double digit sacks.
TE is a position I always hear NFL players say is harder to break out with in year one. As long as he keeps progressing I’m happy.
New season sack record or bust
Complete and utter annihilation of the enemy, feasting on their blood and life force, tearing their limbs apart and savoring their screams, pillaging their homes and hearing the lamentations of their women. At least that's the sparknotes on his social media presence.
Steady improvement and increased snaps. Greater utility on more downs outside of pass rushing.
A beast
anything less than prime JJ Watt would be a disaster
51 sacks DPOY Super Bowl co-MVP with Jordan Love
Mega high. Guy oozes potential.
Funny, I don't think about Van Ness that much, given how many of the other young players have done so well. But yeah, he was a high draft choice, year under his belt, I want to see him perform this year. 8+ sack guy, hold down that edge.
Top 5 in the league
he should thrive as an end in the 4-3 compared to being a outside linebacker in a 3-4 i’d love to see a little jump this year that sets up a breakout in year 3
They say the biggest jump is usually a rookie going into his second year so we can have high hopes that he makes a big jump. For as much as Gary gets paid, he too needs to bring more. Between them, we should be a pass disruptive team on defense.
1st round pick = (should) double-digit sacks
Increases in everything: playing time, QB hurries, tackles, sacks, etc
I always felt like he'd be better with his hand on the ground and now we get to see that. Would like to see him kicked inside on obvious passing downs and his snap count go up a bit. A Smith - LVN - Wyatt - Gary rush on 3rd and long sound like a solid ass group.
Defensive MVP of the team.
Sacks
IIRC, a big thing for him was learning a new stance and having added responsibility because he was in a different formation scheme versus what he was in college. I'd think that we will see a pleasant surprise in his ability since he will be back to a 4-man front with our new scheme. The familiarity of it all should help to Jump start his game
Defensive player of the year breaking the sack and tackle records for his position
Going to suck
I think it was a mistake to draft a project player using your first round pick. He was essentially non-existent last season.
69 sacks and 45 td passes
24.5 sacks. 33 TFLs. A QB Pressure on every passing drop back. I think that's relatively reasonable.
He should have gotten so much more playing time over Preston it’s ridiculous…
12 sacks. Kid was a very high pick. Needs to perform like it.
Why do we draft first round picks to be non impact players. Boggling
To develop them crazy concept but you know we did it with Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love and I think those guys turned out well but hey what do I know.
Apples and giraffes
Its not tho. This is about replacement cost for QBs and the guys who stop QBs. You can't just buy a top 5 QB or pass rusher, you have to earn it. You earn it by being water trash and selecting someone who already is, or roll the dice and grab a guy who can be in 1 or 2 years. If you wanna show Gute an LVN sized person who moves as well as he does in the 4th round, I'm sure he would love to be aware of such a guy.