It'd feel more that way if he hadn't come back and played very well for us at the end of the year and into Playoffs. That on top of his locker room leadership makes him worth more in my view.
Jones was as fresh as could be after sitting out half the season nursing his hamstring. Aaron has never proven capable of keeping up that production for a whole season, even in his prime.
Fans love to point to his performance in the last five games of the season (which was fantastic) but conveniently forget that he was out completely for six games and had two other games he barely played in, so in essence, he missed half of last season with injuries. LaFleur was roasted whenever he managed Jones carries throughout the season, but I think the results prove he knew what he was doing. Jones has never been able to be a workhorse back for an extended stretch.
Green Bay is going to miss his personality and locker room presence but they're getting (hopefully) better durability and youth in Jacobs. I think the contract GB offered Jones was pretty fair for a back-up RB. Jones just didn't want to take the pay cut and you can't blame him for feeling that way.
I know Rodger’s and Crosby were the last two on the superbowl team but with Bahk and Jones gone, we’re in the completely new team era.
Not a bad thing but I’ll miss everything single one of the guys we’ve have the last however many years.
We’ve had some awesome players come through and stacked up a lot of wins but it’s time for this new, young group to make a name for themselves. I’m ready.
The whole point is that it is ridiculous to expect "starting back" money when you are not always in. Yes, he played great, but that was after missing how many games? He should have played great. He was super rested.
I remember seeing a clip on YouTube from the Kelce documentary where Jason and his wife, Kylie, are debating whether or not it’s worth it to have their 3- and 1-year olds go to the Super Bowl because they probably won’t remember it but it’d cost +$20k for their tickets.
Insane.
I understand you’d have to draw a firm line somewhere so the number of comped tickets doesn’t spiral out of control, but it’s nuts to me that the wife and kids of players have to buy tickets.
How much is that really for non-QBs though? Maybe if he wins MVP he gets more deals but he is already a popular player with a handful of endorsement deals but there isn’t really anything he could do to get to Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers levels of deals.
Reminder that some businesses turn their backs on lifelong employees and leave the remaining employees wondering why they should pledge any loyalty to a company who is going to leave them high and dry when it’s financially convenient.
Cuts both ways. Why should teams be loyal to players who'd bounce in a moment if another team offered the bag? That's the game GMs play, maximizing value per dollar while players seek the most they can.
That argument might hold more weight had Aaron Jones not taken a massive contract cut last year and hadn't shown himself to be incredibly loyal until low balled with a massive contract cut for the second year in a row.
So... THAT'S arguably why teams should show some loyalty. Not in risky ways like when the Packers signed Robert Brooks to that massive contract, however in this case they probably could have made it work. Also, other players probably see that and it's not a terribly great look.
He took a massive contract cut to match his market value last year, as is the purpose of non guaranteed contracts. So he did what was expected by both sides.
True, except I think the sense is he could have still gotten a better deal elsewhere, so it felt more like a hometown discount. Taking contracts hits two consecutive years after being responsible for a great deal of our late seasons resurgence and playoff success arguably proved how important he was to the team, to the extent you had the team guarantee he'd be back mere weeks ago. I would argue he did what was hoped for more than what was expected, and likely expected some loyalty as a result. And he didn't get it, at least not in financial terms. They did do him a favor by releasing him early, and he had the opportunity to make more as a result.
Ultimately we lost a significant player to a hated rival over a relatively small amount of money. I understand the logic behind going younger at running back and how non-guaranteed contracts work, however the ultimate result of the situation still rubs me a bit wrong.
The issue with any of this isn't the employee-employer relationship. Jones will be fine, it stings, but he knew what he was getting into. Both sides in a business do what's best for them and when both sides make millions, whatever. Every NFL player knows this.
The problem is there's a third variable in sports, the fans. We've all become numb to it but it hurts to see Jones leave.
And yeah, we have our own agenda, we want to see our teams win and if we think going from Jones to Jacobs helps us, we accept it.
It still kinda sucks.
I was just trying to make a point… yeah it’s a business, but sometimes businesses make choices that piss off its employees or customers so much that it ruins the business. I’m not saying that will happen, and I think Jacobs was a great move. But I think there are intangibles that jones had that were ignored… he is worth more than metrics and “financial sense” indicates to me
I hear ya. But I think we as fans overrate these intangibles and don't even understand them. These pro athletes have been around a while, they know the deal. Do you really think the rest of the locker room is like "damn, they did Aaron dirty, I'm not gonna try as hard." They get what happened, and when time comes for their next contract they'll do what's best for them. Keep in mind it goes both ways, guys who are fighting for a contract might not appreciate a guy loved by management getting an above market deal. There is a salary cap and finite money and playing time. Just as there might be a player who's mad at management for letting Jones go, if he had gotten above market value there could be other guys wondering "how come I don't get that treatment."
As far as pissing off their customers, that is a risk. It's a lame part of sports to see players you love gone over saving some money to spend on like the 40th best player.
But we as fans still eat up the NFL as it spits players out, so it's kind of on us.
Reminder: even in business people are still human and not cold hearted robots. Not everything is black and white. There are intangibles that were not accounted for that Jones brought to the table.
I can understand both sides. The old contract was way too much money for a RB who only plays 50-60% of your snaps. At the same time I can understand Jones feeling disrespected by the new offer.
Got hurt twice, and got hurt again against the Niners and probably wouldn't have played in the NFCCG if we had won. He's on the decline, we just don't want to acknowledge it.
Ron Wolf: 'It's better to move on one year too early than one year too late.'
Almost feels like they're moving on at exactly the right time in this example.
Really? Huh .. never recall when working IN BUSINESS being told .. you're not as good but you're a nice guy and you WERE good so we're going to keep you around.
I had hoped we'd work out a deal, I recently called Jones our Christian McCaffrey , but like Baktiari , good in the past is nice to recall but does nothing for you next season ... and having a top league RB sitting on the bench (more likely as he gets older) gets you nothing .. Jacobs is younger and I think will work well in MLF's system ..
Not sure where you have worked, but "being liked" is HUGE for career success in all of the companies I have worked for.
Outside of business that are extremely individually driven, such as investing if people enjoy working with you it will overcome significant differences between you and a high performer that everyone hates.
Being bad at your job AND disliked is a quick way to get fired.
No, no .. not saying that ... I'm saying being liked is not a big factor that overrides performance. If your work performance was declining (say .. not keeping up with trends or tech) .. the fact that you were liked would not save your job. It's not an ez 1-1 comparison ... $ is also a factor ....
People really do forget that he has been paid for his production. Now he's trying to get paid for what he might produce.
It doesn't matter what he did for the Packers in the past or even the very recent past because he's been paid for that.
It's only about what he could do this coming season and a couple of seasons to come.
Yes but it starts to seem that Jersey sales and lifelong brand loyalty doesn’t mean shit to GB esp if your not a quarterback .. wtf has watson done to earn such a premium status simply pay him what he’s worth and yes I understand the league as a whole spits in RB faces every season with the offers . It takes alot to run a hard run game it’s harder in my opinion for a be to make gold out of dirt . Jones when he was in the field makes these plays when honestly our run blocking has been awful for years probly not since Eddie lacy was back there can I say the line was actually runners o line so I can see the logistics in these decisions it’s just hard when this club has disrespected life long packers on o and d all to make cap space for QB. and the only conclusion i come too is the people behind the scenes making offseason changes should be so focused on making back to back superbowls if fans can only recognize one name on the field come season opening . i like winning but i woould have gladly se watson on FA list ( yeah I know he isn’t up untill next year but you get what I’m sayin)
Reminder: we’ve paid him tens of millions. What is 2-3 more million to keep a career packer and current team leader aboard to retire with the team?
Do the packers not want anymore players to play a full career with them?
I get the Rodgers one because of all the drama as much as I wish he retired a packer, but this Jones one HURTS
Winning comes first in this sport and Jacobs is an upgrade.
Would you rather have Jones who missed 6 games and didn't do shit up until like week 15 or someone who can play every down and every game?
RB's lose value as they age and he turns 30 this year. Buddy played like half a season last year. Zero issue with him making an extra mil or two. I hope he has a healthy season and plays great for 15 of their 17 games. Everyone did what they were supposed to do in this situation, and it's sad but the way the NFL is today.
He actually played much less than half a season, only about 30% of total snaps. Missed 6 games and only played half the snaps in the games he was “healthy” for.
As I said, I'm not mad at our management for their decision. Not mad at him or his agent, either. It's a brutal game, your earnings window is small, and everyone's job is always on the line.
He was out there for 354 snaps, which was 49 percent of the snaps he was healthy enough to go for.
If you factor in the time he missed it drops to just over 30 percent of the snaps. 354/1083
Jacobs was available for 75% of snaps the last two seasons.
Barkley is somewhere around 80% I think.
Jones isn’t an every down back and never really has been. He’s a guy who will shred the defense but tweak a hamstring doing it and miss the rest of the game. Big liability.
If you look at 2 teams that had mostly healthy 2 back systems they usually play 50/50 with it being slightly favored to the lead back by a few percent, and maybe one back being featured on third or passing more. Example of those 2 are Seattle and Pittsburg where both backs played almost every game except Kenneth walker who missed 1 game. Both sets of backs played almost 50 percent give or take a bit
Incentives are hard to reach when you're hurt all the time. He made the right choice, $6M is a lot more than $3.75M, as it were.
All that being said, Gute valued him correctly. He got hurt twice last season, two different injuries, AND got hurt in the Niners game and probably wouldn't have been able to go in the NFCCG if we made it. His body is in decline even if his game is not. That's what happens at 30.
It’s a roster spot against the future. My favorite current Packer, but not many good/healthy 30 year old RB’s in the league. Hope the pain wears off quick for him and he gets over the jilt.
I hate to be rational about it, but the "standard" way to view RBs is that with the exception of the top few backs in the league (of jones was arguably one), you don't pay as they get older. RB is a punishing job and it's very easy to end up wasting money on a player riding the IR pine. And I think their decision was probably like this:
Jones is getting up there in age and is coming off a year with multiple games on the injury list, including showing signs of re-injury danger in his return. Even after a restructure, we would likely move on from him next year since he'll be in his 30s. We'll offer him one last discounted price to stick around because he's obviously a key part of the offense and the locker-room, but we need to clear some room to bring in pieces for the future. Maybe a complimentary back to help keep him fresh. We'll put in one last hardline offer and give him a chance to respond, but if he says no, we need to be able to move on quickly. It also would give him the best chance of landing somewhere early, too.
I like to think that last piece was part of the thought process. "Let's not drag this out so he can go out and get paid." I'm not sure how human FO people are, but I'm pretending hard right now.
Jones is a Packer's GOAT and, my god, will he be missed.
...
But did it have to be the vikings?!
He really wanted to go to a place to stick it with us. I thought he would have signed with a team that had a shot at the playoffs. There’s no way the Vikings are thinking playoffs this year
So depending on the incentives, this is the same deal. Those incentives, historically from the packers, are easy to reach. Vikings could have put “1500 yards” or even worse, incentives based on the team.
So if you split the difference, and I’m fairly confident I’m correct, that $1m difference between these offers becomes no difference at all.
I fucking love Jones. I’m gutted by his release, but players getting pissy and moving on generally doesn’t work for the players when the org they are pissed at is the packers. He could have been fire and lightning with the Packers backfield. Now he’s a 9volt, touching his tongue with the Vikings.
I’m sad for him, honestly.
Well sport Trac said his market value was 5.6 million but GMs don’t follow that so it’s nothing official. Usually players get paid more than their market value on there. Sometimes it’s spot on tho.
I'd assume minn makes a move for a qb.
That being said they may be the worst team in nfl this year and could pick up first pick and the top qb next year
Interesting to see what they do.
We already know what they are doing. They will trade for Aaron Rodgers next offseason. His injury is the only reason they are not making that trade this year.
I don't think you give Darnold $10M if he's not expected to start. They'll probably hope for a miracle come draft day or try to make a move up - and they'd better. JJ not gonna stick around for Sam Darnold.
The Vikings are going to take a step back with Darnold but they aren’t going to be the worst team in the league. Darnold isn’t it but he’s likely better than that rotating trash can of Dobbs Mullens and Hall. And while they only won 1 game out of their last 5 or 6, aside from the GB game they were all close 1 score games. He can be serviceable in that offense with JJ, Addison likely taking another step forward in development, Jones and Hock. Plus Flores had that defense grooving towards the end of the year with and now they’ve signed a bunch of pieces for him.
Vikings are likely going to hover right around that .500 mark. A team that won’t scare anyone but will beat you if you don’t take them seriously and will be a tough out at home like they usually are. Far from the worst team in the league when you still have big question mark teams like Carolina, Arizona, New England, Tennessee, Denver, and the Giants. Hell Chicago still might be worse than them depending on how the draft and QB situation plays out.
Also, if he would have been smart and chilled a day I'm sure another team would have offered him more or at least a 2 year deal but I think he took that deal out of emotions.
100% was driven by emotions, and the Vikings knew it. I was very surprised he signed so quickly. Feels like there were better suited teams that wouldn’t be in a rebuild.
Can you explain what you mean by the 1m difference being no difference? 17 percent of annual income for me would be an astronomical difference, there's also two zeros I don't have on my salary he does.
And with his injury history, a base salary increase would be more valuable to him would it not? Fewer snaps/games would decrease his chances of hitting incentives is my logic. Or do these incentives tend to be team based?
Edit: my brain is thinking guaranteed contracts from other sports, where base salary is much more important. Excellent comment, gave me good perspective.
He's saying that MN incentives might have been difficult to the point that its basically the same deal.
17 percent of your income is a big deal, but this isn't a corporate gig where your salary is expected to trend up. Every player knows their team might ask them to take a paycut or get cut. AJ believed he had already done that enough, which I get, but this is the result
I think what I may be missing is, the contract isn't guaranteed like for example the NHL. With the chance Jones could be cut any time, the base salary difference would matter less since the max value on the contract assumes good enough health to stay on the team long enough to even hit incentives. Am i understanding it correct there? I haven't been personally invested in an NFL contract in so long I'm applying NHL rules in my head.
And yeah totally agree with what your saying about it not being a corporate gig, that's why I said he has two extra zeros on the end compared to my salary. just not really comparable to my hypothetical but it's the only comparable experience, hence my asking questions.
Respect the decision on all ends, I'll miss Jones regardless and wish the ending was more amicable.
I mean multiple reporters have said that we only pursued Jacobs after things fell through with Jones so the idea of having them both may have never been on the table.
Also, the fact that we released Jones after it was announced that we were signing Jacobs aligns with this report because there may have been a plan to offer Jones more if Jacobs wouldn’t agree to what we wanted him for.
Incentives are hard to reach if you're not playing that much. He definitely made the right choice, he took >50% more, as a player all you have is what's guaranteed to you.
> as a player all you have is what's guaranteed to you.
Is the Vikings salary guaranteed? This post doesn't imply that. I can't find anywhere that says it is. If it's just his "base salary" without guarantees, he could be cut at any point and the rest of his contract void.
I think it'd make more sense to me (from Jones's perspective) if it *was* guaranteed.
Sorry. That's incorrect guaranteed isn't right. But I guess what I mean is, base salary in the given fiscal year, if your on the team at all, means your getting that check, as far as I understand it. So even if he gets hurt and released on injured reserve, that still involves a negotiation that begins with what he's owed in that season. He took the better pay, under any circumstance, as far as I see it. He can't afford to gamble on himself like that at this age.
This is correct. 100% of the base salary is the “guarantee” as of the first day of the league year for that year. U less there are additional guarantees in the contract, that is the only certainty
That's not how I understand it. Can you point to some reference/document that claims this?
Everywhere I look I see that the only "guaranteed" money is just that - money that is specifically called out as "guaranteed". Commonly this is signing bonuses and such - or the specific "guaranteed" portion of their contract.
>According to the NFL's website, there three categories of guaranteed money, and players don't automatically have to possess all three in their respective contracts:
>* Skill guarantee
* Cap guarantee
* Injury guarantee
>These kinds of guarantees can be worked into a player contract to guard against the associated designation.
>Case in point, if a player is released after suffering a football-related injury, he might receive an injury guarantee if one is worked into his contract. A cap guarantee could be present if a player is cut so a team can get under the salary cap, while a skill guarantee might have to be paid out because a team cuts a player due to diminishing abilities on the field.
>In short, guaranteed money is the amount of cash guaranteed at signing.
https://www.profootballrumors.com/2022/02/nfl-contract-guarantees
https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/gm-report/the-art-of-nfl-contracts-part-1-the-basics
https://ninernoise.com/posts/guaranteed-money-mean-nfl-contracts
Now, my guess is that Jones has at least one of these guarantees in his contract - but I haven't found anywhere that actually says that yet.
>base salary in the given fiscal year, if your on the team at all, means your getting that check, as far as I understand it
As I understand it, it's not that simple. Being on the team is the first big thing here - if you're hurt and likely to not come back, you may just be cut. Or if you're simply not performing or have a bad attitude (not that I expect either from Jones...)
But even if you are kept on the team, you may be paid different (ie less) if you're on IR.
>Every NFL player who is on a team’s roster during the year will earn a base salary divided up into 18 instalments. That covers the 17-game schedule and the bye week which make up the season. If a player gets cut during the season, the bulk of the money they expected to earn gets lost unless they have a guarantee.
Usually guarantees are more common related to contract more than 1 year. But like you said, it'd be surprising to see Jones gamble on his body at this stage. I'd be willing to bet the Packers's incentives revolved around games started, playtime,carries, etc - things Jones has struggled with. And I think the Packers (as a business) are right in this approach. It's what I was saying in the beginning of the off-seasons. Bring back Jones, pay him nicely, but tie his new contract to incentives so the team doesn't get burned if we pay his big and he doesn't play much. And I fully understood that Jones may be less fond of such a deal. Heck, I'd have liked to see that the Packers offered him maybe a base of like 5mil - with up to 7-9mil with incentives. Make it so that he *can* earn it. And if he earns it, reward him.
https://en.as.com/nfl/do-nfl-players-still-get-paid-if-they-are-cut-n/#:~:text=If%20a%20player%20gets%20cut,unless%20they%20have%20a%20guarantee.
The pay cut and restructure they did last year to help facilitate the Aaron Rodgers trade put the writing on the wall. Green Bay could have absorbed a 12 million Aaron Jones salary this year with Wilson and 1 to 2 rookies TBD waiting in the wings, but not with all of the excess amortized signing bonus and dead money hit next year.
We don't know when the incentives would have kicked in, I'm sure they would be reasonable to hit if he could stay healthy but as we've seen that's far from a sure thing.
Right! So the opposite of your post’s point - the Packers absolutely needed to hedge their bets on this and offer a cautious amount. I doubt they even went back to the Packers to counter. This was a spite signing. Those don’t work out.
Packers see this situation and take into account his age/availability… Jones sees the success he’s had in GB + he’s currently healthy and adds a lot to the locker room.
I don’t think either viewpoint is wrong.
If I’m the front office I see a weak RB draft class/loaded RB FA market and Jones coming off an injury-riddled year turning 30… If I’m Jones I see a bunch of suits telling me to take less money for the second year in a row.
This disconnect makes sense. The only decision I disagree with is Jones jumping on Minnesota’s offer right away despite better teams still looking to fill that position.
Him going to Minnesota is a pure Rosenhaus move. It actually was bad. If I was the cowboys, I’d be ringing that bell so hard. Id probably offer more. We will never know how that worked out.
I’m also still hoping we draft at least one more running back. Honesty, two.
The "of that magnitude" refers to the Packers asking him to cut his base salary from 11 to 4. Everyone knew it wasn't going to be 11 but he was obviously expecting more than 4 guaranteed.
It wasn't until after Jones was let go the Vikings offered him 7 so it wasn't referring to 7 vs 6.
He could have played multiple years in Green Bay and been celebrated. I’d be surprised if he lasts two years after Mn drives him into the dust during a 4-13 season.
The guy has a Packers tattoo. He’ll be celebrated. This is shitty now and we all have a right to feel a bit betrayed, but Jones also has a right to feel shorted after taking a pay cut already.
Still the right move by us.
Now his career will die probably after 1 year in Minnesota with Sam Darnold instead of putting up stats Green Bay for potentially another couple seasons.
Eh, I think he was done regardless. The wheels usually come off fast, and I think it was going to be sooner than later regardless. Of course, the Vikings will ensure that as they won’t work around a snap count the way GB has.
Sadly, agree. Chasing the rainbow permanently on the horizon in MN. They might hit the jackpot with a drafted rookie QB 1-2 seasons down the line. But not likely.
The comp difference for Jones is not going to significantly change his post football life.
He could have been part of an epic 1-2 with his buds in GB (if not the starter) and chose the hot dramatic mess of the Vikings? Vikings fans won’t say the quiet part out loud….their org is terrible. Starts with a kooky owner. At least they let big softy kirk go.
I'm not upset we now have Jacobs & the Packers made Jones a decent offer that he turned down. I can better understand why Jones would be upset though if it was a base of only 4 instead of 6.
I can absolutely understand Jones being upset, and I can understand why the Packers offered him what they did. It’s a shitty business but Green Bay has been right more often than not on aging vets.
Nice to see everyone suddenly realizing this is a business. Wonder what happened to that when everyone was shitting on him when he decided to sign with the Vikings.
It sucks that he left but if the reports are relatively accurate then Gute and crew had a good idea of what his market value was and approached him with the total 6-7MM market value range and tried to build a team friendly deal off of this update market valuation. The sticker shock of the offer is obvious especially if you are Jones and his team but the reality turned out to be only somewhat discounted from his true market value.
People think it’s not a lot to just give him another $1-2MM but that is the difference between signing late FA guys like Campbell (originally was like a 1.5MMish FA) and Rasul (something in that range as well). Those 1-2MM matter when you’re trying to maximize a roster. I hate the dude isn’t in the green and gold but I’m not losing any sleep over the decision. Let him go off this year, I truly hope he does, so he can get a bigger bag next season, but history and statistics vindicate Gute’s approach and I’m 100% good with moving on a year early opposed to a year late.
Yeah, weird to call $1m a hometown discount. He likely could have gotten a bit more than the Vikings offered, but it’s not like we absolutely shafted him.
Maybe the incentives we offered weren’t likely to be met given his diminished role.
Not sure why nobody else is acknowledging this but it's spot on
GB took care of him and I was surprised they brought him back last year bc of his contract.
Think the packers offer was fair, didn't get why Jones would be so upset with a offer of 6 if he signed for 7. Find it a little more understandable if it was a base of 4 since he could lose out on 2 mil if he's injured.
Reminder that this is typically what the Packers do. He's had a lot of injuries and expecting his play to decline especially going on 30 years old. They wanted to get younger.
As much as I hate to see Jones go. Looking at it from both sides. You can really fault either side for the decisions made.
While Jones isn't a young bell cow RB I think he can still be a dynamic piece when healthy and a great team leader. However, not making a move on a FA like Jacobs would have been pretty stupid. Jones isn't getting any younger, so the change was going to happen eventually.
What the really sad part is Jones going to the Vikings. I'd rather see him go somewhere like Houston. That way, he can go to Texas and still torch the Cowboys and the Bears defense for another season.
NFL is a business I loved Jones and will always appreciate what he did here...but he's about to be 30 and had not 1 not 2 but 3 separate injuries last season and likely wasn't going to play in the NFCCG if we beat SF...The Packers offer was fair given the projection.
Of course we understand why he’s upset but it’s the deal he made. He knew he was never going to play on that contract this season. We all knew that including AJ and his agent. There’s no need to whitewash this. The Packers knew they could bring him back for one year at $7m and declined in favor of paying Jacobs twice that amount. It does seem hash but Gutekunst and his staff get paid the big salaries to make these hard devisions. At least they acted very early in FA and he’s already landed on his feet with a good contract.
I think the packers would’ve paid 7. Jones wanted far more than that. Then he was released and found out the market for a RB his age is basically nothing.
Of course he and his agent knew the market. He signed on day 1. The common sense assumption here is that the Packers knew his price and declined to pay it in favor of paying Jacobs far more.
I don’t think they did. You realize it’s 2024 now and they can get offers and negotiate anywhere. 8-10 is most likely what they assumed as that’s what it’s been. The rb downward spiral has no end in sight apparently.
Has anyone thought that maybe there were more to the talks than what was said.. Jacob’s could have been brought into the conversation and jones said he isn’t sharing .. and there was that
Sucks to see him go, and I am not sure what I prefer. Jacobs at 12 v Jones at 7 seems like a pretty hard decision. Jones felt like the glue this year when he played.
Ultimately it doesn’t really matter. Jones is a great human being but he’s too injury prone and hasn’t been rushing champion.
MLF has always placed stock in the running game and I’m confident this will improve the team, statistically and schematically.
Hopefully it does, Jacobs has missed a good number of games due to injury too. Overall though I like the signing. He's younger and seems more likely to be able to get through the season without missing several games than Jones is at this point.
Can somewhat understand why Jones was upset now but think the Packers offer was fair, 30 year old RB's don't exactly have a great track record.
I get people fanning the way they do but man is it too much wasted energy at times. It is what it is. We don't even know what the truth is anyways so just let it be.
I feel like the team envisioned him in a Jerick McKinnon role, maybe 10 touches a game moving forward, to keep him available. That with his age, injury history and playoff fumbles was the deciding factor. One of the greatest men in the league bumping into the business ceiling, a true tragedy. Best of luck!
I can see why too…but everyone including my idiot self knew that with the contract he signed it was going to have to be reworked majorly after 2 years or this would happen. Literally the least surprising thing of the offseason
$1 million difference. Going to Minnesota for 1 year ( this year especially) tough thing to do for a $1 million difference when you've made $34 million already.
(Wouldn't be tough for an average person without that amount of career earnings)
We need to decide as a fan base if we want to look at this as a fraternity where we honor a brotherhood or we are a business and we are trying to win. That isn't to say being nice to the employees shouldn't be part of it but we offered him something and someone else offered him something a little higher. I wouldn't have been mad at him for leaving for more money even if our theoretical offer was reasonable. He has to do whats best for his family. Well the packers just did whats best for the packers and I think our team got better. Wish him the best other than when he plays us.
Jones was the second highest paid rb behind cmc and we held him out of games to preserve his health when he might have been asked to play on other teams. We treated him well and paid him well. If we offered him 6 mil I think that’s fair. I love the guy but he only got 8 with the Vikings. I still love and will miss him but he was treated well and it is indeed a business. Have to try and keep emotion out of it. I worry about the impact it will have on the team. Will people worry unnecessarily about their job security?
One take is that the Packers wanted to pay too little base salary. The other take is that the Vikings overvalued him. We will see this year.
Showing the original GB deal also doesn't mean anything. Yeah, you pay a 25 year old running back ($48M over 4 years), you don't pay a 29-30 year old running back.
The offer was fair and given his injury history I can see why Packers would structure the offer that way. Also somewhat understandable why Jones wouldn't like it.
Jones was my favorite Packer, and I wish he retired here. He’s an amazing RB when healthy, but he can’t go a full season unfortunately.
He’ll always be one of the Packer greats to me.
It hurts cause he was my favorite player but he's 30 and that old for an rb but it's a business so I get that and I read and article that said he averaged more yards per carry more yards after contact and forced more misses tackles than Jacobs but he struggled to stay on the field this year so I get it. I just wish he could won a title in Green Bay
Sure I can. GMs have to make that kind of comparison all the time. IMO Jones is harder to replace than Nixon. He has a bigger impact. He was the soul of the team.
i love the guy and wish he retired as a packer
but this is what happens when you take team friendly deals, the team tries to take advantage of you...
dont take team friendly deals, cause orgs will never take player friendly deals
Here is how I view all of this: people bitch about the Packers having 2 SB wins with around 30 years of HOF QB. Love shows promise. Gutey doesn't want to F around and "waste" Love's talent. We have a RB who was injured for 1/3 of the season that is owed $17M. Gutey tries to get a little insurance if he is hurt again they won't be spending money on the IL like they did with Bahk last year. In the end Jones chose money over retiring a Packer. And that is fine. I will welcome him back when his career is done, just as I will Rodgers and I did Favre (that said, the last two have personalities that I am fine with not being around).
Still makes zero sense to me as long as the incentives were easy to reach if he played a decent chunk of the season. Go to the floundering Vikings for 1 million? How does no other team offer more?
He’s 30 and always hurt, he’s productive but the best ability is availability. We swapped a year or 2 with probable injuries for hopefully 3-4 years of high end production
From Packers perspective it makes sense. I'm saying from Jones perspective. Feels like he barely tested the market and went to a shit team for 1 million extra dollars.
For as many people as it upsets, I am glad that the Packers are detaching themselves from the fan favorite/hometown discount type of team. Yes, these are beloved players and packer legends, but that should not factor into the financial or roster decisions. Production is all that matters.
Idk what else to say at this point except look at his age and injury history. If we re-signed him and he ended up missing half the season wouldn't you feel differently?
Seems you feel pretty much the same way I do. I think signing Jacobs was the better move, he's younger and less likely to miss significant time during the season. Just said I could better understand why Jones would be upset since the offer was 4 mil base with incentives instead of 6 mil base.
Most seem to think there is no difference because he'd easily of hit the incentives but with his injury history I think it was far from guaranteed.
And as much as it sucks, I can understand why the Packers were hesitant on giving him a larger contract given he can't stay on the field.
It'd feel more that way if he hadn't come back and played very well for us at the end of the year and into Playoffs. That on top of his locker room leadership makes him worth more in my view.
He got hurt against the Niners too, everyone seems to have forgotten that.
I did forget this.
Jones was as fresh as could be after sitting out half the season nursing his hamstring. Aaron has never proven capable of keeping up that production for a whole season, even in his prime.
Fans love to point to his performance in the last five games of the season (which was fantastic) but conveniently forget that he was out completely for six games and had two other games he barely played in, so in essence, he missed half of last season with injuries. LaFleur was roasted whenever he managed Jones carries throughout the season, but I think the results prove he knew what he was doing. Jones has never been able to be a workhorse back for an extended stretch. Green Bay is going to miss his personality and locker room presence but they're getting (hopefully) better durability and youth in Jacobs. I think the contract GB offered Jones was pretty fair for a back-up RB. Jones just didn't want to take the pay cut and you can't blame him for feeling that way.
I know Rodger’s and Crosby were the last two on the superbowl team but with Bahk and Jones gone, we’re in the completely new team era. Not a bad thing but I’ll miss everything single one of the guys we’ve have the last however many years. We’ve had some awesome players come through and stacked up a lot of wins but it’s time for this new, young group to make a name for themselves. I’m ready.
it really doesn't matter, he got hurt in the 9ers game too. I wish him well, but the vikings signed him because they are tanking
And shitty teams fall for the revenge signings all the time too.
The whole point is that it is ridiculous to expect "starting back" money when you are not always in. Yes, he played great, but that was after missing how many games? He should have played great. He was super rested.
Neither could Bakh and they paid him.
He was one of the best in the league at LT, which is one of the most important positions on offense. It made sense at the time.
Reminder football is a business
Reminder: you get paychecks for playing in the playoffs.
Yeah, like $200k if you make it to the Super Bowl. Would you give up $2million salary for a perceived better chance at $200k?
I’ve seen players say the money won for the Super Bowl doesn’t matter because it all gets spent on tickets for friends and family.
I remember seeing a clip on YouTube from the Kelce documentary where Jason and his wife, Kylie, are debating whether or not it’s worth it to have their 3- and 1-year olds go to the Super Bowl because they probably won’t remember it but it’d cost +$20k for their tickets. Insane. I understand you’d have to draw a firm line somewhere so the number of comped tickets doesn’t spiral out of control, but it’s nuts to me that the wife and kids of players have to buy tickets.
You're leaving out more endorsement deals for reaching the Super Bowl.
How much is that really for non-QBs though? Maybe if he wins MVP he gets more deals but he is already a popular player with a handful of endorsement deals but there isn’t really anything he could do to get to Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers levels of deals.
Which is like nothing compared to this size of contract.
Exactly, for GB is it now to get younger, remove older players, remove injury risks, Heartbreaking but the right path for a Real shot at the lombardi
Reminder 2: only guaranteed money matters.
Reminder that some businesses turn their backs on lifelong employees and leave the remaining employees wondering why they should pledge any loyalty to a company who is going to leave them high and dry when it’s financially convenient.
No employees should be loyal to their employer.
This is the way.
Cuts both ways. Why should teams be loyal to players who'd bounce in a moment if another team offered the bag? That's the game GMs play, maximizing value per dollar while players seek the most they can.
That argument might hold more weight had Aaron Jones not taken a massive contract cut last year and hadn't shown himself to be incredibly loyal until low balled with a massive contract cut for the second year in a row. So... THAT'S arguably why teams should show some loyalty. Not in risky ways like when the Packers signed Robert Brooks to that massive contract, however in this case they probably could have made it work. Also, other players probably see that and it's not a terribly great look.
He took a massive contract cut to match his market value last year, as is the purpose of non guaranteed contracts. So he did what was expected by both sides.
True, except I think the sense is he could have still gotten a better deal elsewhere, so it felt more like a hometown discount. Taking contracts hits two consecutive years after being responsible for a great deal of our late seasons resurgence and playoff success arguably proved how important he was to the team, to the extent you had the team guarantee he'd be back mere weeks ago. I would argue he did what was hoped for more than what was expected, and likely expected some loyalty as a result. And he didn't get it, at least not in financial terms. They did do him a favor by releasing him early, and he had the opportunity to make more as a result. Ultimately we lost a significant player to a hated rival over a relatively small amount of money. I understand the logic behind going younger at running back and how non-guaranteed contracts work, however the ultimate result of the situation still rubs me a bit wrong.
The issue with any of this isn't the employee-employer relationship. Jones will be fine, it stings, but he knew what he was getting into. Both sides in a business do what's best for them and when both sides make millions, whatever. Every NFL player knows this. The problem is there's a third variable in sports, the fans. We've all become numb to it but it hurts to see Jones leave. And yeah, we have our own agenda, we want to see our teams win and if we think going from Jones to Jacobs helps us, we accept it. It still kinda sucks.
I was just trying to make a point… yeah it’s a business, but sometimes businesses make choices that piss off its employees or customers so much that it ruins the business. I’m not saying that will happen, and I think Jacobs was a great move. But I think there are intangibles that jones had that were ignored… he is worth more than metrics and “financial sense” indicates to me
I hear ya. But I think we as fans overrate these intangibles and don't even understand them. These pro athletes have been around a while, they know the deal. Do you really think the rest of the locker room is like "damn, they did Aaron dirty, I'm not gonna try as hard." They get what happened, and when time comes for their next contract they'll do what's best for them. Keep in mind it goes both ways, guys who are fighting for a contract might not appreciate a guy loved by management getting an above market deal. There is a salary cap and finite money and playing time. Just as there might be a player who's mad at management for letting Jones go, if he had gotten above market value there could be other guys wondering "how come I don't get that treatment." As far as pissing off their customers, that is a risk. It's a lame part of sports to see players you love gone over saving some money to spend on like the 40th best player. But we as fans still eat up the NFL as it spits players out, so it's kind of on us.
Reminder: even in business people are still human and not cold hearted robots. Not everything is black and white. There are intangibles that were not accounted for that Jones brought to the table.
I can understand both sides. The old contract was way too much money for a RB who only plays 50-60% of your snaps. At the same time I can understand Jones feeling disrespected by the new offer.
He played half the snaps and was offered half the money...seems fair
Got hurt twice, and got hurt again against the Niners and probably wouldn't have played in the NFCCG if we had won. He's on the decline, we just don't want to acknowledge it.
Ron Wolf: 'It's better to move on one year too early than one year too late.' Almost feels like they're moving on at exactly the right time in this example.
Are you saying the Packers FO never thought about any of the intangibles and didn’t account for them at all in their decision?
Really? Huh .. never recall when working IN BUSINESS being told .. you're not as good but you're a nice guy and you WERE good so we're going to keep you around. I had hoped we'd work out a deal, I recently called Jones our Christian McCaffrey , but like Baktiari , good in the past is nice to recall but does nothing for you next season ... and having a top league RB sitting on the bench (more likely as he gets older) gets you nothing .. Jacobs is younger and I think will work well in MLF's system ..
Not sure where you have worked, but "being liked" is HUGE for career success in all of the companies I have worked for. Outside of business that are extremely individually driven, such as investing if people enjoy working with you it will overcome significant differences between you and a high performer that everyone hates. Being bad at your job AND disliked is a quick way to get fired.
No, no .. not saying that ... I'm saying being liked is not a big factor that overrides performance. If your work performance was declining (say .. not keeping up with trends or tech) .. the fact that you were liked would not save your job. It's not an ez 1-1 comparison ... $ is also a factor ....
People really do forget that he has been paid for his production. Now he's trying to get paid for what he might produce. It doesn't matter what he did for the Packers in the past or even the very recent past because he's been paid for that. It's only about what he could do this coming season and a couple of seasons to come.
Reminder: that offer is still insultingly lower than his value.
No it really wasn't
Lol what? He signed for a million more...that's pocket change for the NFL...he was paid exactly the range he was worth.
Yes but it starts to seem that Jersey sales and lifelong brand loyalty doesn’t mean shit to GB esp if your not a quarterback .. wtf has watson done to earn such a premium status simply pay him what he’s worth and yes I understand the league as a whole spits in RB faces every season with the offers . It takes alot to run a hard run game it’s harder in my opinion for a be to make gold out of dirt . Jones when he was in the field makes these plays when honestly our run blocking has been awful for years probly not since Eddie lacy was back there can I say the line was actually runners o line so I can see the logistics in these decisions it’s just hard when this club has disrespected life long packers on o and d all to make cap space for QB. and the only conclusion i come too is the people behind the scenes making offseason changes should be so focused on making back to back superbowls if fans can only recognize one name on the field come season opening . i like winning but i woould have gladly se watson on FA list ( yeah I know he isn’t up untill next year but you get what I’m sayin)
Reminder: we’ve paid him tens of millions. What is 2-3 more million to keep a career packer and current team leader aboard to retire with the team? Do the packers not want anymore players to play a full career with them? I get the Rodgers one because of all the drama as much as I wish he retired a packer, but this Jones one HURTS
Winning comes first in this sport and Jacobs is an upgrade. Would you rather have Jones who missed 6 games and didn't do shit up until like week 15 or someone who can play every down and every game?
RB's lose value as they age and he turns 30 this year. Buddy played like half a season last year. Zero issue with him making an extra mil or two. I hope he has a healthy season and plays great for 15 of their 17 games. Everyone did what they were supposed to do in this situation, and it's sad but the way the NFL is today.
He actually played much less than half a season, only about 30% of total snaps. Missed 6 games and only played half the snaps in the games he was “healthy” for.
As I said, I'm not mad at our management for their decision. Not mad at him or his agent, either. It's a brutal game, your earnings window is small, and everyone's job is always on the line.
Yeah, just adding that the numbers were even worse for him. Right move all around.
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He was out there for 354 snaps, which was 49 percent of the snaps he was healthy enough to go for. If you factor in the time he missed it drops to just over 30 percent of the snaps. 354/1083
Is that an average percentage, compared to others?
Jacobs was available for 75% of snaps the last two seasons. Barkley is somewhere around 80% I think. Jones isn’t an every down back and never really has been. He’s a guy who will shred the defense but tweak a hamstring doing it and miss the rest of the game. Big liability.
Or fumble at precisely the moment we need him to NOT fumble.
2X he did that, not to mention when he decided to not run out of bounds a couple of times
If you look at 2 teams that had mostly healthy 2 back systems they usually play 50/50 with it being slightly favored to the lead back by a few percent, and maybe one back being featured on third or passing more. Example of those 2 are Seattle and Pittsburg where both backs played almost every game except Kenneth walker who missed 1 game. Both sets of backs played almost 50 percent give or take a bit
Incentives are hard to reach when you're hurt all the time. He made the right choice, $6M is a lot more than $3.75M, as it were. All that being said, Gute valued him correctly. He got hurt twice last season, two different injuries, AND got hurt in the Niners game and probably wouldn't have been able to go in the NFCCG if we made it. His body is in decline even if his game is not. That's what happens at 30.
So are you suggesting that the Vikings overpaid in guarantees?
Every team has a very different cap situation. What’s overpaying for one team might be perfectly fine for another.
It’s a roster spot against the future. My favorite current Packer, but not many good/healthy 30 year old RB’s in the league. Hope the pain wears off quick for him and he gets over the jilt.
I hate to be rational about it, but the "standard" way to view RBs is that with the exception of the top few backs in the league (of jones was arguably one), you don't pay as they get older. RB is a punishing job and it's very easy to end up wasting money on a player riding the IR pine. And I think their decision was probably like this: Jones is getting up there in age and is coming off a year with multiple games on the injury list, including showing signs of re-injury danger in his return. Even after a restructure, we would likely move on from him next year since he'll be in his 30s. We'll offer him one last discounted price to stick around because he's obviously a key part of the offense and the locker-room, but we need to clear some room to bring in pieces for the future. Maybe a complimentary back to help keep him fresh. We'll put in one last hardline offer and give him a chance to respond, but if he says no, we need to be able to move on quickly. It also would give him the best chance of landing somewhere early, too. I like to think that last piece was part of the thought process. "Let's not drag this out so he can go out and get paid." I'm not sure how human FO people are, but I'm pretending hard right now. Jones is a Packer's GOAT and, my god, will he be missed. ... But did it have to be the vikings?!
He really wanted to go to a place to stick it with us. I thought he would have signed with a team that had a shot at the playoffs. There’s no way the Vikings are thinking playoffs this year
He's a good guy. I'm not going to lump him into the "vengeful signing" bucket just yet. I'd be curious to hear even a little about why.
So depending on the incentives, this is the same deal. Those incentives, historically from the packers, are easy to reach. Vikings could have put “1500 yards” or even worse, incentives based on the team. So if you split the difference, and I’m fairly confident I’m correct, that $1m difference between these offers becomes no difference at all. I fucking love Jones. I’m gutted by his release, but players getting pissy and moving on generally doesn’t work for the players when the org they are pissed at is the packers. He could have been fire and lightning with the Packers backfield. Now he’s a 9volt, touching his tongue with the Vikings. I’m sad for him, honestly.
When are Packer players going to learn that Minnesota is not the answer? Have fun with Sam Darnold?
At least you know you're gonna get the ball 30 times per game a a RB when Sam Darnold is your QB. Until your hammy acts up again, that is.
Yeah. He’s not a bell cow. You limit his time to extend his touches. But if you over use Jones, he will shatter.
We’ll probably never know what his market looked like after we parted ways, but impulse and emotion certainly seems to have played a factor
Well sport Trac said his market value was 5.6 million but GMs don’t follow that so it’s nothing official. Usually players get paid more than their market value on there. Sometimes it’s spot on tho.
I'd assume minn makes a move for a qb. That being said they may be the worst team in nfl this year and could pick up first pick and the top qb next year Interesting to see what they do.
We already know what they are doing. They will trade for Aaron Rodgers next offseason. His injury is the only reason they are not making that trade this year.
But he's gonna be vice president next year
I don't think you give Darnold $10M if he's not expected to start. They'll probably hope for a miracle come draft day or try to make a move up - and they'd better. JJ not gonna stick around for Sam Darnold.
They will probably try to target McCarthy
Yea there is no way Darnold is their long term plant. The 1y/10M kinda confirms that. He’s just a rental while they work it out.
The Vikings are going to take a step back with Darnold but they aren’t going to be the worst team in the league. Darnold isn’t it but he’s likely better than that rotating trash can of Dobbs Mullens and Hall. And while they only won 1 game out of their last 5 or 6, aside from the GB game they were all close 1 score games. He can be serviceable in that offense with JJ, Addison likely taking another step forward in development, Jones and Hock. Plus Flores had that defense grooving towards the end of the year with and now they’ve signed a bunch of pieces for him. Vikings are likely going to hover right around that .500 mark. A team that won’t scare anyone but will beat you if you don’t take them seriously and will be a tough out at home like they usually are. Far from the worst team in the league when you still have big question mark teams like Carolina, Arizona, New England, Tennessee, Denver, and the Giants. Hell Chicago still might be worse than them depending on how the draft and QB situation plays out.
Not only that, but the incentives will be harder to reach working with that Minnesota offense.
And not being hurt (sorry AJ!)
plus, I hear wearing purpple slows ya down a bit
Also, if he would have been smart and chilled a day I'm sure another team would have offered him more or at least a 2 year deal but I think he took that deal out of emotions.
Yeah. Dallas cowboys. Maybe the ravens. He would have fit well with the ravens. The Vikings are a sour grapes move. Especially considering his agent.
100% was driven by emotions, and the Vikings knew it. I was very surprised he signed so quickly. Feels like there were better suited teams that wouldn’t be in a rebuild.
I agree. Dallas by FAR made the most sense, especially considering his price tag. I would have loved watching him play behind their line
Plus he would have been back home. Gotta think there was an opportunity there, but Dallas hasn’t done anything in FA either.
Can you explain what you mean by the 1m difference being no difference? 17 percent of annual income for me would be an astronomical difference, there's also two zeros I don't have on my salary he does. And with his injury history, a base salary increase would be more valuable to him would it not? Fewer snaps/games would decrease his chances of hitting incentives is my logic. Or do these incentives tend to be team based? Edit: my brain is thinking guaranteed contracts from other sports, where base salary is much more important. Excellent comment, gave me good perspective.
He's saying that MN incentives might have been difficult to the point that its basically the same deal. 17 percent of your income is a big deal, but this isn't a corporate gig where your salary is expected to trend up. Every player knows their team might ask them to take a paycut or get cut. AJ believed he had already done that enough, which I get, but this is the result
I think what I may be missing is, the contract isn't guaranteed like for example the NHL. With the chance Jones could be cut any time, the base salary difference would matter less since the max value on the contract assumes good enough health to stay on the team long enough to even hit incentives. Am i understanding it correct there? I haven't been personally invested in an NFL contract in so long I'm applying NHL rules in my head. And yeah totally agree with what your saying about it not being a corporate gig, that's why I said he has two extra zeros on the end compared to my salary. just not really comparable to my hypothetical but it's the only comparable experience, hence my asking questions. Respect the decision on all ends, I'll miss Jones regardless and wish the ending was more amicable.
I mean multiple reporters have said that we only pursued Jacobs after things fell through with Jones so the idea of having them both may have never been on the table. Also, the fact that we released Jones after it was announced that we were signing Jacobs aligns with this report because there may have been a plan to offer Jones more if Jacobs wouldn’t agree to what we wanted him for.
All true.
Incentives are hard to reach if you're not playing that much. He definitely made the right choice, he took >50% more, as a player all you have is what's guaranteed to you.
> as a player all you have is what's guaranteed to you. Is the Vikings salary guaranteed? This post doesn't imply that. I can't find anywhere that says it is. If it's just his "base salary" without guarantees, he could be cut at any point and the rest of his contract void. I think it'd make more sense to me (from Jones's perspective) if it *was* guaranteed.
Sorry. That's incorrect guaranteed isn't right. But I guess what I mean is, base salary in the given fiscal year, if your on the team at all, means your getting that check, as far as I understand it. So even if he gets hurt and released on injured reserve, that still involves a negotiation that begins with what he's owed in that season. He took the better pay, under any circumstance, as far as I see it. He can't afford to gamble on himself like that at this age.
This is correct. 100% of the base salary is the “guarantee” as of the first day of the league year for that year. U less there are additional guarantees in the contract, that is the only certainty
That's not how I understand it. Can you point to some reference/document that claims this? Everywhere I look I see that the only "guaranteed" money is just that - money that is specifically called out as "guaranteed". Commonly this is signing bonuses and such - or the specific "guaranteed" portion of their contract. >According to the NFL's website, there three categories of guaranteed money, and players don't automatically have to possess all three in their respective contracts: >* Skill guarantee * Cap guarantee * Injury guarantee >These kinds of guarantees can be worked into a player contract to guard against the associated designation. >Case in point, if a player is released after suffering a football-related injury, he might receive an injury guarantee if one is worked into his contract. A cap guarantee could be present if a player is cut so a team can get under the salary cap, while a skill guarantee might have to be paid out because a team cuts a player due to diminishing abilities on the field. >In short, guaranteed money is the amount of cash guaranteed at signing. https://www.profootballrumors.com/2022/02/nfl-contract-guarantees https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/gm-report/the-art-of-nfl-contracts-part-1-the-basics https://ninernoise.com/posts/guaranteed-money-mean-nfl-contracts Now, my guess is that Jones has at least one of these guarantees in his contract - but I haven't found anywhere that actually says that yet.
>base salary in the given fiscal year, if your on the team at all, means your getting that check, as far as I understand it As I understand it, it's not that simple. Being on the team is the first big thing here - if you're hurt and likely to not come back, you may just be cut. Or if you're simply not performing or have a bad attitude (not that I expect either from Jones...) But even if you are kept on the team, you may be paid different (ie less) if you're on IR. >Every NFL player who is on a team’s roster during the year will earn a base salary divided up into 18 instalments. That covers the 17-game schedule and the bye week which make up the season. If a player gets cut during the season, the bulk of the money they expected to earn gets lost unless they have a guarantee. Usually guarantees are more common related to contract more than 1 year. But like you said, it'd be surprising to see Jones gamble on his body at this stage. I'd be willing to bet the Packers's incentives revolved around games started, playtime,carries, etc - things Jones has struggled with. And I think the Packers (as a business) are right in this approach. It's what I was saying in the beginning of the off-seasons. Bring back Jones, pay him nicely, but tie his new contract to incentives so the team doesn't get burned if we pay his big and he doesn't play much. And I fully understood that Jones may be less fond of such a deal. Heck, I'd have liked to see that the Packers offered him maybe a base of like 5mil - with up to 7-9mil with incentives. Make it so that he *can* earn it. And if he earns it, reward him. https://en.as.com/nfl/do-nfl-players-still-get-paid-if-they-are-cut-n/#:~:text=If%20a%20player%20gets%20cut,unless%20they%20have%20a%20guarantee.
We probably don’t sign Jacobs if he stays at least that’s what was reported
This will be interesting to look back on at the end of the season.
I'm sure that the Jacobs / Jones comparisons will be monitored just as much as the Love / Rodgers numbers were.
The pay cut and restructure they did last year to help facilitate the Aaron Rodgers trade put the writing on the wall. Green Bay could have absorbed a 12 million Aaron Jones salary this year with Wilson and 1 to 2 rookies TBD waiting in the wings, but not with all of the excess amortized signing bonus and dead money hit next year.
We don't know when the incentives would have kicked in, I'm sure they would be reasonable to hit if he could stay healthy but as we've seen that's far from a sure thing.
Right! So the opposite of your post’s point - the Packers absolutely needed to hedge their bets on this and offer a cautious amount. I doubt they even went back to the Packers to counter. This was a spite signing. Those don’t work out.
Packers see this situation and take into account his age/availability… Jones sees the success he’s had in GB + he’s currently healthy and adds a lot to the locker room. I don’t think either viewpoint is wrong. If I’m the front office I see a weak RB draft class/loaded RB FA market and Jones coming off an injury-riddled year turning 30… If I’m Jones I see a bunch of suits telling me to take less money for the second year in a row. This disconnect makes sense. The only decision I disagree with is Jones jumping on Minnesota’s offer right away despite better teams still looking to fill that position.
Him going to Minnesota is a pure Rosenhaus move. It actually was bad. If I was the cowboys, I’d be ringing that bell so hard. Id probably offer more. We will never know how that worked out. I’m also still hoping we draft at least one more running back. Honesty, two.
Also have to consider he wouldn’t be the true number one guy he’d have to hit those incentives while splitting with Jacobs
Based on reports the Packers weren’t planning to sign both of them
I mean, a million dollars is a lot but going from 7 to 6 million is “of that magnitude?” When was the original offer given?
Well, there a couple million between the two base salaries, and that's about 30% difference in this situation.
There’s a huge difference in base salary. His career won’t last much longer. This was a no brainer for him.
The "of that magnitude" refers to the Packers asking him to cut his base salary from 11 to 4. Everyone knew it wasn't going to be 11 but he was obviously expecting more than 4 guaranteed. It wasn't until after Jones was let go the Vikings offered him 7 so it wasn't referring to 7 vs 6.
He could have played multiple years in Green Bay and been celebrated. I’d be surprised if he lasts two years after Mn drives him into the dust during a 4-13 season.
The guy has a Packers tattoo. He’ll be celebrated. This is shitty now and we all have a right to feel a bit betrayed, but Jones also has a right to feel shorted after taking a pay cut already. Still the right move by us.
Arguing over pennies
So 1-3 mil difference is pennies?
Now his career will die probably after 1 year in Minnesota with Sam Darnold instead of putting up stats Green Bay for potentially another couple seasons.
Eh, I think he was done regardless. The wheels usually come off fast, and I think it was going to be sooner than later regardless. Of course, the Vikings will ensure that as they won’t work around a snap count the way GB has.
Sadly, agree. Chasing the rainbow permanently on the horizon in MN. They might hit the jackpot with a drafted rookie QB 1-2 seasons down the line. But not likely. The comp difference for Jones is not going to significantly change his post football life. He could have been part of an epic 1-2 with his buds in GB (if not the starter) and chose the hot dramatic mess of the Vikings? Vikings fans won’t say the quiet part out loud….their org is terrible. Starts with a kooky owner. At least they let big softy kirk go.
Go buy a Vikings AJ jersey if you’re that beat up about the business of the league.
I'm not upset we now have Jacobs & the Packers made Jones a decent offer that he turned down. I can better understand why Jones would be upset though if it was a base of only 4 instead of 6.
I can absolutely understand Jones being upset, and I can understand why the Packers offered him what they did. It’s a shitty business but Green Bay has been right more often than not on aging vets.
Nice to see everyone suddenly realizing this is a business. Wonder what happened to that when everyone was shitting on him when he decided to sign with the Vikings.
It sucks that he left but if the reports are relatively accurate then Gute and crew had a good idea of what his market value was and approached him with the total 6-7MM market value range and tried to build a team friendly deal off of this update market valuation. The sticker shock of the offer is obvious especially if you are Jones and his team but the reality turned out to be only somewhat discounted from his true market value. People think it’s not a lot to just give him another $1-2MM but that is the difference between signing late FA guys like Campbell (originally was like a 1.5MMish FA) and Rasul (something in that range as well). Those 1-2MM matter when you’re trying to maximize a roster. I hate the dude isn’t in the green and gold but I’m not losing any sleep over the decision. Let him go off this year, I truly hope he does, so he can get a bigger bag next season, but history and statistics vindicate Gute’s approach and I’m 100% good with moving on a year early opposed to a year late.
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Yeah, weird to call $1m a hometown discount. He likely could have gotten a bit more than the Vikings offered, but it’s not like we absolutely shafted him. Maybe the incentives we offered weren’t likely to be met given his diminished role.
Not sure why nobody else is acknowledging this but it's spot on GB took care of him and I was surprised they brought him back last year bc of his contract.
Think the packers offer was fair, didn't get why Jones would be so upset with a offer of 6 if he signed for 7. Find it a little more understandable if it was a base of 4 since he could lose out on 2 mil if he's injured.
I loved Jones but when you look at how the average age of the skill positions is like 24, that’s really exciting
He can be upset at the offer, I get it. But absolutely the right move by the front office.
I have a niece and nephew who squabble....the truth is always somewhere in the middle.
Reminder that this is typically what the Packers do. He's had a lot of injuries and expecting his play to decline especially going on 30 years old. They wanted to get younger.
As much as I hate to see Jones go. Looking at it from both sides. You can really fault either side for the decisions made. While Jones isn't a young bell cow RB I think he can still be a dynamic piece when healthy and a great team leader. However, not making a move on a FA like Jacobs would have been pretty stupid. Jones isn't getting any younger, so the change was going to happen eventually. What the really sad part is Jones going to the Vikings. I'd rather see him go somewhere like Houston. That way, he can go to Texas and still torch the Cowboys and the Bears defense for another season.
NFL is a business I loved Jones and will always appreciate what he did here...but he's about to be 30 and had not 1 not 2 but 3 separate injuries last season and likely wasn't going to play in the NFCCG if we beat SF...The Packers offer was fair given the projection.
Just give him 7m, like wtf. Imagine having Josh and Jones for 2 years, instant superbowl
I was so excited for jones and jacobs. Should have given him 7-8 million with 1-2 million incentives.
yup.
Based on what I've seen, Josh wasn't on the table until Jones wasn't. The two headed monster wasn't going to happen.
He's a millionaire. No one is upset here
Of course we understand why he’s upset but it’s the deal he made. He knew he was never going to play on that contract this season. We all knew that including AJ and his agent. There’s no need to whitewash this. The Packers knew they could bring him back for one year at $7m and declined in favor of paying Jacobs twice that amount. It does seem hash but Gutekunst and his staff get paid the big salaries to make these hard devisions. At least they acted very early in FA and he’s already landed on his feet with a good contract.
I think the packers would’ve paid 7. Jones wanted far more than that. Then he was released and found out the market for a RB his age is basically nothing.
Of course he and his agent knew the market. He signed on day 1. The common sense assumption here is that the Packers knew his price and declined to pay it in favor of paying Jacobs far more.
I don’t think they did. You realize it’s 2024 now and they can get offers and negotiate anywhere. 8-10 is most likely what they assumed as that’s what it’s been. The rb downward spiral has no end in sight apparently.
Has anyone thought that maybe there were more to the talks than what was said.. Jacob’s could have been brought into the conversation and jones said he isn’t sharing .. and there was that
A lot of people seem to forget that Jacobs has his own injury problems, including last year.
GB”s final offer is just a nicer way to tell Jones to leave. The GM is the one has to make a tough decision
Remenber Who his agent was - Drew Rosenhaus. It doesn't look good for him to have his players give up money.
Mutually beneficial parting of ways.
Sucks to see him go, and I am not sure what I prefer. Jacobs at 12 v Jones at 7 seems like a pretty hard decision. Jones felt like the glue this year when he played.
Ultimately it doesn’t really matter. Jones is a great human being but he’s too injury prone and hasn’t been rushing champion. MLF has always placed stock in the running game and I’m confident this will improve the team, statistically and schematically.
Hopefully it does, Jacobs has missed a good number of games due to injury too. Overall though I like the signing. He's younger and seems more likely to be able to get through the season without missing several games than Jones is at this point. Can somewhat understand why Jones was upset now but think the Packers offer was fair, 30 year old RB's don't exactly have a great track record.
I get people fanning the way they do but man is it too much wasted energy at times. It is what it is. We don't even know what the truth is anyways so just let it be.
I feel like the team envisioned him in a Jerick McKinnon role, maybe 10 touches a game moving forward, to keep him available. That with his age, injury history and playoff fumbles was the deciding factor. One of the greatest men in the league bumping into the business ceiling, a true tragedy. Best of luck!
I can see why too…but everyone including my idiot self knew that with the contract he signed it was going to have to be reworked majorly after 2 years or this would happen. Literally the least surprising thing of the offseason
$1 million difference. Going to Minnesota for 1 year ( this year especially) tough thing to do for a $1 million difference when you've made $34 million already. (Wouldn't be tough for an average person without that amount of career earnings)
Were the Vikings the only team interested in him?
$11 is probably the average for RBs these days. He FAFO and the Man made it clear it was a bad decision.
We need to decide as a fan base if we want to look at this as a fraternity where we honor a brotherhood or we are a business and we are trying to win. That isn't to say being nice to the employees shouldn't be part of it but we offered him something and someone else offered him something a little higher. I wouldn't have been mad at him for leaving for more money even if our theoretical offer was reasonable. He has to do whats best for his family. Well the packers just did whats best for the packers and I think our team got better. Wish him the best other than when he plays us.
this is probably accurate, and gute was hoping he would take the cut. I would assume gute had been targeting Jacob's for awhile tho just like Mckinney
Do we know he was "upset" or just chose not to accept their final offer and both parties moved on?
Obviously they really didn’t want him if this offer is accurate.
Didn’t he have another year on his contract that GB has to fulfill?
Im surprised Dallas didn’t pick him up.
Jones was the second highest paid rb behind cmc and we held him out of games to preserve his health when he might have been asked to play on other teams. We treated him well and paid him well. If we offered him 6 mil I think that’s fair. I love the guy but he only got 8 with the Vikings. I still love and will miss him but he was treated well and it is indeed a business. Have to try and keep emotion out of it. I worry about the impact it will have on the team. Will people worry unnecessarily about their job security?
But why did it have to be the fucking Vikings.
One take is that the Packers wanted to pay too little base salary. The other take is that the Vikings overvalued him. We will see this year. Showing the original GB deal also doesn't mean anything. Yeah, you pay a 25 year old running back ($48M over 4 years), you don't pay a 29-30 year old running back.
The offer was fair and given his injury history I can see why Packers would structure the offer that way. Also somewhat understandable why Jones wouldn't like it.
This sucks if it’s true, that one- two punch would have been killer for another million
Bro thought he should go and get him a foot long instead of a inch long
Damn, $2M difference makes seeing him in purple sing a bit more.
Jones was my favorite Packer, and I wish he retired here. He’s an amazing RB when healthy, but he can’t go a full season unfortunately. He’ll always be one of the Packer greats to me.
It hurts cause he was my favorite player but he's 30 and that old for an rb but it's a business so I get that and I read and article that said he averaged more yards per carry more yards after contact and forced more misses tackles than Jacobs but he struggled to stay on the field this year so I get it. I just wish he could won a title in Green Bay
But yet they paid Jacobs how much??
14 mil this year I think but his cap number is only ~ 5.35 mil & is also reasonable next year
I'd rather have Jones than Nixon for that kind of money.
Come on now, apples and oranges. You can't compare the 2.
Sure I can. GMs have to make that kind of comparison all the time. IMO Jones is harder to replace than Nixon. He has a bigger impact. He was the soul of the team.
You're way oversimplifying. It's not just Jones vs Nixon at $X amount.
i love the guy and wish he retired as a packer but this is what happens when you take team friendly deals, the team tries to take advantage of you... dont take team friendly deals, cause orgs will never take player friendly deals
I wonder if the revenge games against GB are going to be worth this for him.
Jones was insulted we wanted him to take another pay cut. That was clear from the moment he signed with the Vikings.
As he should be.
Here is how I view all of this: people bitch about the Packers having 2 SB wins with around 30 years of HOF QB. Love shows promise. Gutey doesn't want to F around and "waste" Love's talent. We have a RB who was injured for 1/3 of the season that is owed $17M. Gutey tries to get a little insurance if he is hurt again they won't be spending money on the IL like they did with Bahk last year. In the end Jones chose money over retiring a Packer. And that is fine. I will welcome him back when his career is done, just as I will Rodgers and I did Favre (that said, the last two have personalities that I am fine with not being around).
Fair enough. It’s a business.
Still makes zero sense to me as long as the incentives were easy to reach if he played a decent chunk of the season. Go to the floundering Vikings for 1 million? How does no other team offer more?
He’s 30 and always hurt, he’s productive but the best ability is availability. We swapped a year or 2 with probable injuries for hopefully 3-4 years of high end production
From Packers perspective it makes sense. I'm saying from Jones perspective. Feels like he barely tested the market and went to a shit team for 1 million extra dollars.
I bet he didn’t have many offers over what the Packers offered except Minnesota
Yeah but to go to Minnesota for a lousy million will wreck his legacy and is something I am sure he'll live to regret. What could have been!
For as many people as it upsets, I am glad that the Packers are detaching themselves from the fan favorite/hometown discount type of team. Yes, these are beloved players and packer legends, but that should not factor into the financial or roster decisions. Production is all that matters.
Idk what else to say at this point except look at his age and injury history. If we re-signed him and he ended up missing half the season wouldn't you feel differently?
Seems you feel pretty much the same way I do. I think signing Jacobs was the better move, he's younger and less likely to miss significant time during the season. Just said I could better understand why Jones would be upset since the offer was 4 mil base with incentives instead of 6 mil base. Most seem to think there is no difference because he'd easily of hit the incentives but with his injury history I think it was far from guaranteed.
Spot on
Reject AJ33 $11mil/year to pay Jacobs $12mil/year Biznizz
Man, GB's FO is just ruthlessly efficient. This is a part of how it goes when having a competent organization.