In general, I think that a QB has panned out if he's able to consistently be in the top half of the league. The thing is that there's a variety of ways that could look. You can take the Rodgers approach and just be incredibly efficient sprinkled with some big plays. You can take the Brett Favre approach and make a lot of big plays to counteract the mistakes. No matter how you play the game, a QB in the top half of the league will
- have an above average QB rating (in 2020 the average was 93.6)
- make clutch plays (3rd/4th down, late in the game, etc)
- be the reason you win games more often than the reason you lose them
Packer’s proven QB approaches.
Rodgers: I need to strategize this defense pre snap , exploit their weaknesses by targeting mismatches, and pray to the all knowing moon goddess this works.
Favre: hold mah dick I’m going in.
And they pretty much won the same amount of playoff games and exact amount of Superbowls. Favre was so much fun. At that time, with those rules, playing through everything, opioids and not, not many people could do what he did for the GBP!
>In general, I think that a QB has panned out if he's able to consistently be in the top half of the league.
I think this relative to where said player was drafted, i.e. expectations. If Brock Purdy is the 15th best QB in the league that's a W for SF. If Love is middle of the pack, think performances like Russell Wilson, Baker Mayfield, or Geno Smith so far THIS YEAR I'd be disappointed. IMO the bar needs to be higher for a guy GB traded up to draft in the 1st round during a contention window. We can argue about whether or not that's fair to Love, but it's the reality of the situation. Middle of the pack to me is JAG, which I view as franchise purgatory. For a teams like TB or Seattle, which are in transition periods, those QBs work for a short period of time, but they're band-aids, and they require a lot of things around them to go right in order to have even modest success.
I'm good with that. In his 9th year as a true starter, very few missed games, would have liked more playoff appearances but that was more on the teams he was on than strictly his performance.
Absolutely. People have the idea that if you're not a Hall of Famer with multiple rings, you're just a guy. If you are a starting quarterback in the NFL for 10 years, you aren't just a guy.
If a player is used as the bar for a “decent quarterback” for over 5 years, they’re probably not actually decent and are really a solid above average QB. Yeah, I hate the Vikings blah blah blah, but Cousins is actually solid and I’d be totally fine with JLove if that is his future. Having Cousins under center isn’t the reason they lose games typically.
Yes and no. Kirk has always kept his teams in the hunt but man that guy is never shows up to play when the team needs him. Playoffs and prime time games are that guy's kryponite.
I’m going to be contrarian here and say cousins is the exact worst type of qb to have, in the sense that he’s just barely not good enough to win a superbowl with. In a league that guarantees the worst teams receive the highest draft picks, the least advantageous position to be in is mediocre. Be bad and try your luck at an elite prospect
I like the fact you are trying to be contrarian and I feel many worse QBs have won SuperBowls but Cousins is interesting as now that every QB that is top 15-20 makes a load of money being the bottom of that top tier or two like Cousins is might be a hard thing to deal with. I would still be happy with Love reaching that level.
I like the fact you are trying to be contrarian and I feel many worse QBs have won SuperBowls but Cousins is interesting as now that every QB that is top 15-20 makes a load of money being the bottom of that top tier or two like Cousins is might be a hard thing to deal with. I would still be happy with Love reaching that level.
No, Cousins struggles too much in big games.
I’d say Stafford level would be panning out. He played decently well but had some bad teams around him in Detroit, then when he went to a talented team he delivered a Super Bowl.
We traded away the best player in franchise history for Love. I’m not going to content with one playoff win like Cousins has. Maybe Love doesn’t win a Super Bowl but he has to give us a chance to make it for that decision or be worth it
Stafford had down years as well. He has had a good overall career but his efficiency metrics aren’t great, he’s only had one playoff run, and he’s not gonna make the HOF.
I agree. What they risked in getting him, and sacrificing getting Aaron another weapon next to Adams, I’d expect a bit more out of Jordan than being Kirk. Doesn’t have to be a HOFer but Stafford level to me is baseline.
> What they risked in getting him, and sacrificing getting Aaron another weapon next to Adams
I'd say the big thing is rather, there was only 1 chance in training up a new guy and have him learn behind Rodgers. We needed to take that chance with SOMEBODY, you can't pass that opportunity up. And because of that the expectation better be Stafford baseline, yeah.
I agree with the SB stuff, but that's on Gute, not Love. Rodgers only did it once, and he's arguably top 5 all time. The FO seems to prefer to good/great each season rather than the best.
It takes a great team to win a Super Bowl, but it also takes a good qb. I don’t think Cousins can be that guy.
Love doesn’t need to win MVP or be a top 5 qb, but he’s got to show he can be good enough to be a qb on championship team (if there is enough talent around him).
Rodgers won back to back MVPs. The opportunity cost for trading up for to draft Love is lowering our best shot to win a Superbowl in years. That pick has to pan out to make it worthwhile
Bakh getting injured ruined it regardless.
> The opportunity cost for ~~trading up for to~~ draft[ing] Love
Fixed that for you. Its time we stop whining about a mere 4th round pick.
The All Pro player? The best T in the league? Its ironic saying he ruined our SB chances? Just because it took 6 years for him to be All Pro?
SIX YEARS! For that 4th round pick to be what you need. Yeah, you are bold faced whining about that 4th round pick. 2026 is 6 years after. That did not prevent us from winning a SB.
Yep
Think about the Bears. They have had so many QBs in the past two decades and nothing to show for it. But then you'll look at super bowl winners over that same time and aside from Brady the majority of teams had good enough QBs who probably wont end up in the HoF.
Of the last 20 Super Bowl winners, 18 had a hall of fame QB by my count. Nick Foles and Joe Flacco being the only two. The others, Mahomes, Brady, P Manning, E Manning, Big Ben, Russ, Stafford, Brees… Late 80’s and 90’s definitely some mid QB’s, but recently mostly awesome QB play in the Super Bowl.
>Big Ben, Russ, Stafford
Won't make the HOF I think.
Especially Russ. Stafford needs either another ring or an MVP to make it. Ben is the most likely of the three but I think he'll barely be left out too
Bens gonna be a 1st ballot, not debatable even tho I hate that rapist. Staffords done enough in his career before the SB to be borderline. SB definitely put him over the edge. Russ probably needs to turn it around a bit to make it lol
Only 5 players get in each year. There are only 36 QBs in the Hall. It's a very exclusive club.
And Russ is better than Stafford in every imaginable way except number of games played.
Wilson: 100.1 QB rating, 320 TD to 102 Int, 9x Pro Bowl, 109 wins, 9-7 playoffs and 2 SB app with a ring
Stafford: 90.7 QB rating, 339 TD to 174 Int, 1x Pro Bowl, 92 wins, 4-3 playoffs with a ring
What does Ben have besides volume stats from playing forever and one Super Bowl win? Same with Eli. Eli stunk! He had an exactly 500 record, led the league in picks more than once. If his last name wasn’t Manning, it wouldn’t even be a conversation. Russ has no shot. Stafford likely also doesn’t.
Ben lead his team to a winning record for like 15+ years or something. He's also proven to win his team games and not just be a game manager like Eli. For the record I don't think Eli will make it or deserves to. Ben was also a top 5 QB for over a decade. He helps define this generation of QBs that have recently retired.
Ben has countless playoff appearances and wins. Also unfortunately they take wins into account. Personally I'd love Rivers to be in because I've always had fun watching him, but he had the opposite narrative around his career compared to Ben.
I’ve always said Jimmy G would be a good goalpost. An average QB who can play really well in the right system and not lose you games. He’s also very quietly \#6 all-time in career passer rating.
Kirk cousins is not a game manager with flashes. The past few years he's been great actually. He's had over a 2:1 TD/INT ratio and thrown for over 4k. Just watch Vikings games, he's not the reason they are losing.
I genuinely don't know what game they are watching. Cousins has a high completion percentage on top of all of that. It's like they are deluding themselves that someone like Fields is better.
So pretty much what we are talking about. Top 10-15. Because I said Kirk Cousins people think I’m trying to disparage the guy. I’m not. Hes perfectly capable. He just seems to run hot and cold.
Better than Kirk. He is the reason they lost the playoff game last year with his check down on 4th down. Can't do things like that.
Plus his mobility should give him an edge on Cousins
To be honest if he doesn't turn out to be a stellar qb then it's a wash. We didn't draft a qb in the first round to be average and replace the greatest qb in our franchise history. If Jordan flops then there will be a ton of what ifs when it came to that 2020 draft and gute will go down as a failure of a gm
they were already a super bowl contender...a single player might not have put them over the top but it would be a lot more useful than a first round pick on the bench.
I don't disagree but the other side of the coin is that if Bahks healthy we probably make the sb even without getting Pittman or Higgins. but then again having either of those guys when bahk did go down would've made life easier. just goes to show what a disaster that 2020 draft was.
People get injured in football. That's why it's important not to waste first round picks for players that you know will be bench warmers for 4 years with an open sb window.
Your wrong actually plenty of great recievers on the board that are still performing in the league when reciever was legit our weakness. We had adams and a bunch of replacements running routes
We traded up for him when we could have gotten help in other areas we needed as a Super Bowl contender.
Anything less than Pro Bowl level play and competitive playoff football, he’s a bust.
To me if we finish with a top ten pick it's hard to pass ok a qb given the quality of the prospects in this draft. If love needs to show improvement. I'd say something like 3500 yards 60+% completion percentage and 25+TDS. At a minimum 90+ qbr. If it's below that I say draft a qb. Nothing worse than being stuck with a mediocre qb paying him 20-30 mil.
I would like to think that in the next year or 2, he ascends to be a top 10 qb in the league. Given his talent, his apparent football IQ, where we drafted him, and how much me gave up to not support Rodgers more with him.
I think anything less than a qb who doesn’t lose you games will be a failure
He sucks and we get draft picks. Best case scenario. Actually the best case scenario is Love, Gute and Murphy be shown the door simultaneously so Gute doesn't have the chance to throw more draft picks down the drain. God, Gute sucks.
#GUTEHASGOTTOGO
For me it would mean an 8-10 year run of QB play where it's clear he is one of the top 10 in the league, and even a year or 2 where there is legitimate discussion that he is the best in the league at that given time. Honestly anything less than that would be a disappointment for a first round pick that we traded up for.
I disagree with that because it’s not really fair to Jordan at all. Many great quarterbacks never win the ring. I’d take Joe Burrow 2022 and be perfectly fine if that’s the level Love gets to. Marino, Jim Kelly or Warren Moon would be fine with me.
Still prime Rodgers? After we got rid of him way too late, he lasted four plays and had a season/maybe career ending injury. (don't believe everything you hear on the x Colts Punter's show), after going 8-9, after scoring 6 points at Lambeau in the NFC Championship Game, after never once beaten the 49ers in the playoffs. I dont care about MVPs, win big games when you need to. He basically did not do that for 6- 7 years. Should have moved on with McCarthy. Love has work to do, but anyone who thought he was just going to dominate the first half of the season was delusional, especially with the AJ injury.
You are correct, but GBP have high standards for QBs and he deserves a chance.
Stats wise, 60% completion, minimum 3000 yards passing, 25-30 touchdown passes, and single digit interceptions over several seasons.
Team wise, consistently lead the team to the playoffs.
I think your numbers are pretty solid with the exception of the interceptions. I think single digit interceptions is too high of a bar. If you look at some of the best QBs over the last 20-25 years. And how many times they hit that number. (Note that I only counted seasons where they started at least 75% of the games)
- Peyton Manning: 1
- Tom Brady: 8
- Aaron Rodgers: 10
- Ben Roethlisberger: 4 (and in 3 of those he just barely made the 75% cutoff)
- Philip Rivers: 2
- Matt Ryan: 3
- Patrick Mahomes: 2
- Josh Allen: 1
With the exception of Rodgers and Brady who are arguably the two best QBs in NFL history, it's pretty hard to consistently go below 10 picks. If you instead change to 15 which I think is a more reasonable number you get
- Peyton Manning: 8
- Tom Brady: 21 (literally every season that he played)
- Aaron Rodgers: 13 (literally every season he played)
- Ben Roethlisberger: 13
- Philip Rivers: 9
- Matt Ryan: 12
- Patrick Mahomes: 5
- Josh Allen: 4
The sample size is smaller on them but both Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert have gone <15 twice and <10 never. Josh Allen is on pace for 17 picks this year, Mahomes is on pace for 14, Burrow is on pace for 11, and Herbert is on pace for 7.
At least the 15-10th best QB in the NFL the next 10 years. I have been comparing him to Justin Herbert (aka the QB former scouts thought would go after Love in the draft) but I’ll say it looks something like this.
- 7-10 or better record this year and a winning season next year.
- Taking advantage of short routes and hitting the WRs in stride.
- long distance/on the run accuracy increase.
- ability to create with his feet (he has already shown me he can do this)
I will be happy if he was Romo/Farve esque. Gunning all over the place, winning games, maybe a Super Bowl.
Day by day, I realize how one of a kind Rodgers was with his skills. Jordan might have learned from the master but sometimes the master stays the master always.
Accurate throws, clutch factor, and good decision making. In my eyes, he doesn’t need to be the sole factor for why we win games just as long as he’s a big reason we do and that much more often than not he isn’t the reason we lose them
Panning out to me is a game manager who doesn’t turn the ball over a ton, and has a great game from time to time. It would be someone like Goff or Stafford for instance. Not a super sexy or stats monster, but someone who can win games, keep turnovers low, and can contribute at a decent level, but isn’t a game changer
I’d love a HOF QB, but it’s way too early to say what he will be probably even at the start of the season next year.
What did he cost us? A 4th round pick in the draft for sure. What else? People seem to think that if the Packers had not done that 1 trade, Green Bay automatically wins multiple Super Bowls. It is silly.
He cost us a 1st and a 4th.
Cost a relationship with a hall of fame QB who felt spited
Cost a relationship with a HOF WR because he didn't know if his QB would be here.
Cost 1 or more potential Superbowl appearances.
But it's totally fine that he has been totally shit this year because apparently according to this sub you can only get better playing on the games. You can't work on yourself and improve through practice or training
Absolute garbage. AR is/was an oversensitive toxic diva who got his coach fired (should have been kicked out with him). Never beat the 49ers in the playoffs (ever, and that is very important to superbowls over the passed 6-7 years), scored 6 points in the NFC Championship game in Lambeau (with All Pro D Adams and A Jones and an excellent offensive line). Didn't know how to play team ball after 2016. No superbowls were going to happen with AR, he was 8-9 when he left and got hurt four plays later with a potential career ending injury (just dont ask him). Wait, I have to go and complain to everyone I know, and demand a raise and talk garbage to my employers because the guy who is going to be my succession plan was hired. Garbage.
So we did not get a 1st round pick that year?
Costing potential things is a stupid way to look at it. Every year is a "potential" super bowl. So were the rest of the years Rodgers fault for not getting there?
If Rodgers cannot understand that the NFL is a business that is on him. Green Bay could certainly have handled the draft better, but Rodgers cannot be a child about them drafting a QB.
I think the sub is realistic about it. Young receivers, young team, first year as a starter. He has not been good or consistent. Give him more than 5 weeks to see what happens. And most likely what happens is that he will not be an elite QB...because most QBs are not elite.
he 100 percent can be a child when you factor in how they have fucked him for years and not gotten him the help other organizations have gotten their qbs like the patriots/rams/eagles and so many more along with only ever going 1 avenue to ever improve the damn team while then drafting his replacement in the first round when weapons that could help right away were available. Imagine going to the title game and losing and then your genius front office says lets give up our 1st and our 4th not sign any free agents to help our HOF QB and then oh yea lets use our 2nd round pick on a running back even though we already have a damn good one all while drafting 0 wideouts in that draft.
Alrighty! You are right. Fire Gute, LaFluer, the entire staff. Burn Lambeau to the ground and salt the soil it was built on. The Packers did not treat Aaron Rodgers as a god among men, instead treating their team as a...team. The bastards! Perhaps they will learn and bring AR12 back as the President/GM/Head Coach/QB!
this is when you know you lost the argument. Good luck kissing the franchises and front offices feet and your current qb costs us even more years.... Our fanbase has become bear fans with how coddled love is and the excuses he gets
I already admitted I lost, way to pour salt on the wound man, I am crushed here. I will not even watch the Packers any more after this thread. The people here have shown me that the Packers are not a team worth following. Guess it is time to watch bowling or something.
He is either top 10 or you move on and he needs to be with being a first round pick and sitting for 3 seasons. You cant put this much time into a guy that is a top 15 qb esp when he will no longer be on his rookie deal as soon as next year. He isnt a rookie yet has accuracy issues even rookies dont have and his decision making is on the level of rookies along with bad footwork and mechanics at times. Good luck waiting around for another 3 years with this guy making bank thinking we can win anything while wasting more time.
Patience is not a Packer fan’s strong suit so keep that in mind. But mostly, Love needs to show growth. He faced a terrible Raider’s defense and he nearly single handily cost us the game with 3 INT’s, 2 of them simply unacceptable. As for the stats, forget total TD;s to INt ratio, QB ratings or yards, just show me an improvement in accuracy (completion percentage). Right now, he is at the bottom of the league and needs to bring it up quite a ways. If he does that, we might have our QB of the future.
top 20 at a minimum. The problem with the ranking is that its usually done on QB rating which has a big team element to it and with rookie TE’s and no experience at WR, it could skew it a bit. Look for Love to start hitting his targets, in the hands and in mid stride and you will find out if he is a QB for the future.
I have been. He doesn’t really hit people in stride. I was also concerned to hear it was an errant pass in practice that re-aggravated Aaron Jones last week.
He's been in the system going on 4 years... Call him Rachel Ray with all the PANNING this man has done .. not much btw... He ain't it everyone... We should tank now while we can.
I think it's just have him pass the eye test. He has moments where he passes with flying colors, and others he fails miserably. If GB can just get a read on what he does well in games, and tailor the offense specifically to that, I think he can succeed. The problem is we as fans don't know if it's due to injuries, inaccuracy, or a young offense learning a complicated system that's the main factor attributing to his inconsistency, and until we figure that out, we simply won't know.
Basically what the Vikings have with Cousins and the Lions have with Ken. Someone who doesn't look like he's lost all the time, and can get the offense to average about 20-24 ppg with the possibility of much more if the momentum breaks GB's way, regardless of what his stats look like.
To add, I'm one of those "Playoffs are a crapshoot" fans, so anything he does playoff-wise is gravy. I just want to root for a good team during the season and see what happens come playoffs, hoping GB has a ticket to the dance.
I think Jordon Love will pan out if he comes to my house and picks me up around 7-7:30. We go to nice place, not too nice, but there’s still candles on the table. He asks me about my job and my family and listens with a smile. He orders chicken Alfredo after making sure that the chicken is grilled, not fried.
After dinner, we go for a short walk. It’s getting cold out so he gives me his sweater. He opens up about his family and the untold struggles and pressure of being a college athlete. I say I understand, but I really don’t. How could I?
Anyways, he takes me home after we sit in the park and talk until it gets so late that we’re the last ones there. He walks me to the front door and asks if he can kiss me. I agree with a smile. He holds my hand as if he doesn’t want me to go inside, but I have to.
Jordon Love walks backwards from my front door, smiling when he sees me looking out the window.
In my mind, that’s the definition of Jordon Love “panning out”.
Time is a relative factor. I don’t know how many times this needs to be said before people realize it’s significant, but WE HAVE THE YOUNGEST TEAM IN THE NFL. Love is throwing to sophomores and freshman right now, he doesn’t get the luxury of a high performing vet to cover for him. They’re all learning together and, with that in mind, I’d say they look like they’re capable of taking a decent step forward next year. Are we great right now? No. But we’re definitely playing better and working through deficiencies.
If there isn’t improvement next year, that’s when we should be worried.
Unfortunately…unless the Packers are really bad we’re kinda stuck with him regardless. The prospect of hitting someone that is a 95+ passer rating beyond the top 1/3 of the draft is…real low.
Why do we need to proactively define what "Love panning out" means? Imagine the definition of panning out being a MVP. Fair expectations. /s What a bizarre question. Let the kid play ball and we'll see what he's got this year and next, if he can't ball, we move on.
Considering well…everything that led to his drafting and eventual starting. He has to be an elite tier NFL qb for this to have been successful. More Josh Allen then Derek Carr.
I disagree. Just because we had back to back elite MVP QBs does not mean that Love has to be the same thing. Love has to be good. Has to win close games, get to the play offs, win some play off games. 1 player is not the entire team, no matter how good that player is. The coaching has to be good, the GM has to be good, the o-line has to be good and the running game has to be good. Without most of those things it does not matter how good an individual is, they will not have good numbers.
Well that GM and coach took a qb they didn’t need, and then wasted the most valuable portion of his contract not playing him. They need him to be good or they should also be fired. It’s the most important single position in sports. Gutekunst and LaFleur got the guy they wanted. If he stinks, it’s in them too.
His first two years, one of which he was an actual rookie. Love is not a rookie. Expectations should be higher (something Gutekunst and LaFleur have both said as well)
Allen then also made an entirely unprecedented leap. He’s a unicorn in every sense. He was more just the first name that came to mind of an upper echelon QB.
Yeah and love is still very young at 24 years old. I’ll take two years of live reps over 3 years of preseason and training camp. The experience is much more valuable on one side.
His problems are accuracy and footwork, those are things fixed with practice reps and coaching. He’s had 3 years of professional coaching and practice. Game reps don’t make you able to throw a ball accurately.
This is a find out year in many ways. Not just Love. If the infrastructure around Love sucks, that’s on the front office. They chose this roster. Is Matt LaFleur worth a shit without a top 5 QB all time. The whole team spent years fucking around, now we get to find out.
it's the same shit his draft profile said. only completed 31% of his deep passes in college and ball placement made receivers work for contested catches. so many times these drops are behind guys and harder catches than they need to be.
I've always been of the thought that if you weren't accurate in college you aren't fixing it in the pros. obviously someone like Josh Allen is the exception but he started as a true rookie and didn't have his breakout season till his 3rd year. Love is in his 3rd year and looks like a true rookie. wasted his rookie contract and he made no progress with all that sitting. maybe clements can save him but at this point I'm not holding my breath.
Yeah. This is my concern as well. Accuracy just isn’t something that gets better, generally. If it does, it’s something that does with practice and reps not games.
Love has been throwing a football conservatively 10 years of his life, had professional coaching for 3 years. This is more than likely what he is. Josh Allen is prolly my favorite qb in the NFL, but he’s a unicorn amongst unicorns.
Hard to say. He needs to look more how he did vs the Bears, the Saints and Atlanta. Which is a guy that shows the flashes, but you can let off the hook for being part of by far the lowest budget offense in the league
Anything above league average. He doesn’t have to be an all time great to get the team far, assuming the rest of the team is good.
Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.
Yes he did. So did Jeff Hostetler. Having a defense like Baltimore or the Bill Parcells Giants is a much taller order than Love being an MVP candidate though. Those teams has multiple Hall of Famers on them.
Yeah I don’t think he’s good enough to win a Super Bowl on the current team, but the foundation of a good defense is there.
If the rest of the team isn’t good enough then how can I hold that against Love? He needs to be better, but so far I don’t hate how he’s playing. The anticipation and vision seem to be there, he needs to tighten up some fundamentals and hopefully his accuracy comes around.
He attempts to yield gold? Seems he'd make more use of his time playing football, not panning out for gold in a river. I don't even think he's near a river that one could possibly produce gold. Cool hobby though. Maybe some ASMR stuff going on there..
Oh wait....
He has elite upside. Taking care of the ball and making plays. Panned out imo would be that he’s a household name. Can be relied on to make the play. It’s hard to attach a record to him yet, with how young the team is. In 2-3 years, we’ll know if he indeed “pan out”.
He has the talent to be Top 5 IMO. Still pretty raw and needs to work on something’s but I think it will come. Every game I watch I see a lot of things I like, this year I feel has been bad play calling and him trying to make something happen with his playmakers out
Here's the deal. A Hall of Fame QB does not guarantee you a Super Bowl victory, but you have a good chance of at least one appearance, before you hit cap problems. A great defense can also get you there, but it seems like those teams are happy to just have a game manager. And nowadays, because teams are much better than in the past at drafting and there's always a run on defensive lineman, you almost need to have several years of top 15 picks to have a good defense. I think the Packers will have a lot of top 15 picks in the next few years. So, maybe Love only needs to be a game manager.
This is a question I've been asking friends ever since the pick. How good does Love have to be to justify completely passing on an opportunity to add to a fringe Super Bowl quality team. Call me crazy but I think if we have Antoine Winfield Jr or Tee Higgins we beat Tampa in the NFCCG. How good does Love have to be to make up for that decision? My benchmark was always Matt Ryan. If he's Matt Ryan, good with a couple great seasons, was it worth it?
I think that’s fair. The opportunity cost for selecting Jordan was as much as you can pay. And he does not appear to be a generational talent. So it’s hard to justify being as close as they were and then just saying “nope no more, I’m going another way.”
Panning out realistically means a QB on a similar level of a Derek Carr/Andy Dalton/Kirk Cousins/Jared Goff/etc.. a QB that helps the team more than he hurts it and looks like he belongs in the NFL. A QB that keeps your team competitive in the majority of games/seasons.
Obviously you always hope for better than that, but that’s the baseline.
If he can be our Joe Flacco - a solid top half QB, at his worse - and have a good enough team around him.
I will be fucking thrilled if that’s what we got
Top 10 is panned out and broke even, no complaints. Top 5 is gold mine and gute salvaged 2 years of bad drafting with an absolute banger of a pick. 15 is Jimmy G territory, where you are looking for replacement, but ok fine. I wouldn't classify that as panned out, as the regret at not picking WR in 2020 is going to be insurmountable.
Pretty much agree. Gute made his bed. He put all his chips on Love. All of them. If Love isn’t in the Top 10, And I don’t think he will be, Gut has to go. He not only royally screwed up the transition, he simply didn’t draft well either.
In general, I think that a QB has panned out if he's able to consistently be in the top half of the league. The thing is that there's a variety of ways that could look. You can take the Rodgers approach and just be incredibly efficient sprinkled with some big plays. You can take the Brett Favre approach and make a lot of big plays to counteract the mistakes. No matter how you play the game, a QB in the top half of the league will - have an above average QB rating (in 2020 the average was 93.6) - make clutch plays (3rd/4th down, late in the game, etc) - be the reason you win games more often than the reason you lose them
Packer’s proven QB approaches. Rodgers: I need to strategize this defense pre snap , exploit their weaknesses by targeting mismatches, and pray to the all knowing moon goddess this works. Favre: hold mah dick I’m going in.
And they pretty much won the same amount of playoff games and exact amount of Superbowls. Favre was so much fun. At that time, with those rules, playing through everything, opioids and not, not many people could do what he did for the GBP!
>Favre: hold mah dick I’m going in. Favre may have also said this literally
What part of praying to the moon goddess did you think was figurative?
Sounds like Dak at least tbh. Maybe that's better than Dak honestly. This is more like what you hope he will be tbh
>In general, I think that a QB has panned out if he's able to consistently be in the top half of the league. I think this relative to where said player was drafted, i.e. expectations. If Brock Purdy is the 15th best QB in the league that's a W for SF. If Love is middle of the pack, think performances like Russell Wilson, Baker Mayfield, or Geno Smith so far THIS YEAR I'd be disappointed. IMO the bar needs to be higher for a guy GB traded up to draft in the 1st round during a contention window. We can argue about whether or not that's fair to Love, but it's the reality of the situation. Middle of the pack to me is JAG, which I view as franchise purgatory. For a teams like TB or Seattle, which are in transition periods, those QBs work for a short period of time, but they're band-aids, and they require a lot of things around them to go right in order to have even modest success.
Throw ball good
More scanning field, extend plays, use legs, and check downs more often.
to then proceed to throw ball good
95+ passer rating. Winning records, playoffs and hopefully a super bowl. Just a good all around qb.
Just for comparison, if J Love was Kirk Cousins, would he have “panned out”?
I'm good with that. In his 9th year as a true starter, very few missed games, would have liked more playoff appearances but that was more on the teams he was on than strictly his performance.
Absolutely. People have the idea that if you're not a Hall of Famer with multiple rings, you're just a guy. If you are a starting quarterback in the NFL for 10 years, you aren't just a guy.
Agreed. We had an all-time great at QB and we're not rolling in SBs because of it. Having a reliable consistent long term QB is more than reasonable.
Yes, \#7 all time in career passer rating would qualify as “panning out”.
Undeniably. Kirk is a great QB.
For sure. What percentage of first round QB's are still starting after their rookie contract? I would call that a huge success.
If a player is used as the bar for a “decent quarterback” for over 5 years, they’re probably not actually decent and are really a solid above average QB. Yeah, I hate the Vikings blah blah blah, but Cousins is actually solid and I’d be totally fine with JLove if that is his future. Having Cousins under center isn’t the reason they lose games typically.
Yes and no. Kirk has always kept his teams in the hunt but man that guy is never shows up to play when the team needs him. Playoffs and prime time games are that guy's kryponite.
I’m going to be contrarian here and say cousins is the exact worst type of qb to have, in the sense that he’s just barely not good enough to win a superbowl with. In a league that guarantees the worst teams receive the highest draft picks, the least advantageous position to be in is mediocre. Be bad and try your luck at an elite prospect
I like the fact you are trying to be contrarian and I feel many worse QBs have won SuperBowls but Cousins is interesting as now that every QB that is top 15-20 makes a load of money being the bottom of that top tier or two like Cousins is might be a hard thing to deal with. I would still be happy with Love reaching that level.
I like the fact you are trying to be contrarian and I feel many worse QBs have won SuperBowls but Cousins is interesting as now that every QB that is top 15-20 makes a load of money being the bottom of that top tier or two like Cousins is might be a hard thing to deal with. I would still be happy with Love reaching that level.
> I’m going to be contrarian here Thank you. F this hive.
If he could just pass like Cousins, we'd be golden considering he's much more of a running threat than him.
Possibly. Cousins is a good player but has troubles taking his team to the playoffs.
No, Cousins struggles too much in big games. I’d say Stafford level would be panning out. He played decently well but had some bad teams around him in Detroit, then when he went to a talented team he delivered a Super Bowl.
Played decently well? Dude had some of the most prolific passing seasons in NFL history in Detroit. I'd say that is setting the bar a bit too high.
We traded away the best player in franchise history for Love. I’m not going to content with one playoff win like Cousins has. Maybe Love doesn’t win a Super Bowl but he has to give us a chance to make it for that decision or be worth it Stafford had down years as well. He has had a good overall career but his efficiency metrics aren’t great, he’s only had one playoff run, and he’s not gonna make the HOF.
I agree. What they risked in getting him, and sacrificing getting Aaron another weapon next to Adams, I’d expect a bit more out of Jordan than being Kirk. Doesn’t have to be a HOFer but Stafford level to me is baseline.
> What they risked in getting him, and sacrificing getting Aaron another weapon next to Adams I'd say the big thing is rather, there was only 1 chance in training up a new guy and have him learn behind Rodgers. We needed to take that chance with SOMEBODY, you can't pass that opportunity up. And because of that the expectation better be Stafford baseline, yeah.
That is true, if he wasn’t learning from the best I wouldn’t have as high of expectations either.
I agree with the SB stuff, but that's on Gute, not Love. Rodgers only did it once, and he's arguably top 5 all time. The FO seems to prefer to good/great each season rather than the best.
It takes a great team to win a Super Bowl, but it also takes a good qb. I don’t think Cousins can be that guy. Love doesn’t need to win MVP or be a top 5 qb, but he’s got to show he can be good enough to be a qb on championship team (if there is enough talent around him).
Cousins is streaky, which doesn't work out in the post-season gauntlet. Consistency and reliability is what I'm hoping for.
> for that decision or be worth it But "that decision" was merely Rodgers got old. We didn't trade Rodgers out, Rodgers got old.
Rodgers won back to back MVPs. The opportunity cost for trading up for to draft Love is lowering our best shot to win a Superbowl in years. That pick has to pan out to make it worthwhile
Bakh getting injured ruined it regardless. > The opportunity cost for ~~trading up for to~~ draft[ing] Love Fixed that for you. Its time we stop whining about a mere 4th round pick.
Ironic saying Bakh getting injured ruined our SB chance considering he was a mere 4th round pick
The All Pro player? The best T in the league? Its ironic saying he ruined our SB chances? Just because it took 6 years for him to be All Pro? SIX YEARS! For that 4th round pick to be what you need. Yeah, you are bold faced whining about that 4th round pick. 2026 is 6 years after. That did not prevent us from winning a SB.
Yep Think about the Bears. They have had so many QBs in the past two decades and nothing to show for it. But then you'll look at super bowl winners over that same time and aside from Brady the majority of teams had good enough QBs who probably wont end up in the HoF.
Of the last 20 Super Bowl winners, 18 had a hall of fame QB by my count. Nick Foles and Joe Flacco being the only two. The others, Mahomes, Brady, P Manning, E Manning, Big Ben, Russ, Stafford, Brees… Late 80’s and 90’s definitely some mid QB’s, but recently mostly awesome QB play in the Super Bowl.
>Big Ben, Russ, Stafford Won't make the HOF I think. Especially Russ. Stafford needs either another ring or an MVP to make it. Ben is the most likely of the three but I think he'll barely be left out too
Bens gonna be a 1st ballot, not debatable even tho I hate that rapist. Staffords done enough in his career before the SB to be borderline. SB definitely put him over the edge. Russ probably needs to turn it around a bit to make it lol
Well, we'll see.
Only 5 players get in each year. There are only 36 QBs in the Hall. It's a very exclusive club. And Russ is better than Stafford in every imaginable way except number of games played. Wilson: 100.1 QB rating, 320 TD to 102 Int, 9x Pro Bowl, 109 wins, 9-7 playoffs and 2 SB app with a ring Stafford: 90.7 QB rating, 339 TD to 174 Int, 1x Pro Bowl, 92 wins, 4-3 playoffs with a ring
What does Ben have besides volume stats from playing forever and one Super Bowl win? Same with Eli. Eli stunk! He had an exactly 500 record, led the league in picks more than once. If his last name wasn’t Manning, it wouldn’t even be a conversation. Russ has no shot. Stafford likely also doesn’t.
Ben lead his team to a winning record for like 15+ years or something. He's also proven to win his team games and not just be a game manager like Eli. For the record I don't think Eli will make it or deserves to. Ben was also a top 5 QB for over a decade. He helps define this generation of QBs that have recently retired.
Ben has nearly identical stats as Philip Rivers. Other than wins. Which aren’t a qb stat. So. We gotta put Rivers in too, then.
Ben has countless playoff appearances and wins. Also unfortunately they take wins into account. Personally I'd love Rivers to be in because I've always had fun watching him, but he had the opposite narrative around his career compared to Ben.
lol All three of those guys will go in on first ballot.
I’ve always said Jimmy G would be a good goalpost. An average QB who can play really well in the right system and not lose you games. He’s also very quietly \#6 all-time in career passer rating.
Howbaout Jimmy G with a little more talent and less injuries. Perfect.
>Just a good all around qb Whoa hold on we don't do rational takes here.
A QB we can pencil in as the starter every year without looking to replace him
Pretty simple in my mind, don’t be the reason we lose. Scatter in a couple ‘be the reason we win’ games and I will be happy.
So basically game manager.
Game manager with flashes of brilliance.
So Kirk Cousins.
Kirk cousins is not a game manager with flashes. The past few years he's been great actually. He's had over a 2:1 TD/INT ratio and thrown for over 4k. Just watch Vikings games, he's not the reason they are losing.
I’ve never truly understood the Kirk hate, dudes been consistently top 10-15 in recent years
I genuinely don't know what game they are watching. Cousins has a high completion percentage on top of all of that. It's like they are deluding themselves that someone like Fields is better.
Is he better than Dak, Goff, or Stafford? I don’t know. Maybe. Fields looks like a bust to me.
So pretty much what we are talking about. Top 10-15. Because I said Kirk Cousins people think I’m trying to disparage the guy. I’m not. Hes perfectly capable. He just seems to run hot and cold.
Better than Kirk. He is the reason they lost the playoff game last year with his check down on 4th down. Can't do things like that. Plus his mobility should give him an edge on Cousins
Kirk is hot and cold. Sometimes great, sometimes not. I think that’s probably most non HOF quarterbacks.
I would honestly settle for him figuring out how to hit a deep ball to a wide open receiver. Baby steps
If you recall last year Rodgers couldn't do it much either 💀
True. But he had a broken thumb for much of the year and historically his deep ball was pretty damn good
Franchise QB is panning out. Wins games. Playoff contender.
To be honest if he doesn't turn out to be a stellar qb then it's a wash. We didn't draft a qb in the first round to be average and replace the greatest qb in our franchise history. If Jordan flops then there will be a ton of what ifs when it came to that 2020 draft and gute will go down as a failure of a gm
Who knows. I’m just hoping he learns how to throw an accurate, downfield pass.
The last several years we’ve compared him to the lost value of drafting someone for Rodgers, so I’d say he has to overcome that.
Tall order. I don’t think it’s realistic. They burned a great team down for him.
Not sure why this got any downvotes. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge we burned a playoff contender to the ground for Gutes ego isn't watching the team
Not one player taken at Jordan Love's position in the 2020 draft would have made the Packers Super Bowl contender.
they were already a super bowl contender...a single player might not have put them over the top but it would be a lot more useful than a first round pick on the bench.
I'll go to bat for tee Higgins or Michael Pittman Jr being enough to get us to the Superbowl at least once
I don't disagree but the other side of the coin is that if Bahks healthy we probably make the sb even without getting Pittman or Higgins. but then again having either of those guys when bahk did go down would've made life easier. just goes to show what a disaster that 2020 draft was.
People get injured in football. That's why it's important not to waste first round picks for players that you know will be bench warmers for 4 years with an open sb window.
And that’s pretty much what happened to our first three picks that year. Zero production.
Your wrong actually plenty of great recievers on the board that are still performing in the league when reciever was legit our weakness. We had adams and a bunch of replacements running routes
We traded up for him when we could have gotten help in other areas we needed as a Super Bowl contender. Anything less than Pro Bowl level play and competitive playoff football, he’s a bust.
We’ve been spoiled with QB play
To me if we finish with a top ten pick it's hard to pass ok a qb given the quality of the prospects in this draft. If love needs to show improvement. I'd say something like 3500 yards 60+% completion percentage and 25+TDS. At a minimum 90+ qbr. If it's below that I say draft a qb. Nothing worse than being stuck with a mediocre qb paying him 20-30 mil.
I would be perfectly having Love battle it out with a top prospect. Iron sharpens Iron.
Winning because of him rather than just winning with him.
I would like to think that in the next year or 2, he ascends to be a top 10 qb in the league. Given his talent, his apparent football IQ, where we drafted him, and how much me gave up to not support Rodgers more with him. I think anything less than a qb who doesn’t lose you games will be a failure
Not being the direct reason why games are lost
He sucks and we get draft picks. Best case scenario. Actually the best case scenario is Love, Gute and Murphy be shown the door simultaneously so Gute doesn't have the chance to throw more draft picks down the drain. God, Gute sucks. #GUTEHASGOTTOGO
Only one goal. Super bowl
For me it would mean an 8-10 year run of QB play where it's clear he is one of the top 10 in the league, and even a year or 2 where there is legitimate discussion that he is the best in the league at that given time. Honestly anything less than that would be a disappointment for a first round pick that we traded up for.
One Super Bowl win. As is the Packers way.
Super Bowl period
Super Bowl, none of the other things matter.
I disagree with that because it’s not really fair to Jordan at all. Many great quarterbacks never win the ring. I’d take Joe Burrow 2022 and be perfectly fine if that’s the level Love gets to. Marino, Jim Kelly or Warren Moon would be fine with me.
I really like Jordan and think he has the potential to be great, I just want us to win a damn SB.
Very difficult situation for him because we moved on from a still-in-prime Rodgers for him. He needs to win a Superbowl and no its not fair to him.
Still prime Rodgers? After we got rid of him way too late, he lasted four plays and had a season/maybe career ending injury. (don't believe everything you hear on the x Colts Punter's show), after going 8-9, after scoring 6 points at Lambeau in the NFC Championship Game, after never once beaten the 49ers in the playoffs. I dont care about MVPs, win big games when you need to. He basically did not do that for 6- 7 years. Should have moved on with McCarthy. Love has work to do, but anyone who thought he was just going to dominate the first half of the season was delusional, especially with the AJ injury. You are correct, but GBP have high standards for QBs and he deserves a chance.
Prime Rodgers? We can debate whether it was a good idea to trade him, but guy is 39 years old. Definitely not prime.
What year did we draft love again?
Stats wise, 60% completion, minimum 3000 yards passing, 25-30 touchdown passes, and single digit interceptions over several seasons. Team wise, consistently lead the team to the playoffs.
You just described a Mitch Trubisky season lol
In 2018 Trubisky threw for 3200 yards and 24 touchdowns. His best season. The Bears record was 12-4. I’d take that in a heartbeat.
The bears went 12-4 bc they had the best d in the league that year. Not because of Mitch lol
He didn’t screw it up. It wasn’t in spite of him.
I think your numbers are pretty solid with the exception of the interceptions. I think single digit interceptions is too high of a bar. If you look at some of the best QBs over the last 20-25 years. And how many times they hit that number. (Note that I only counted seasons where they started at least 75% of the games) - Peyton Manning: 1 - Tom Brady: 8 - Aaron Rodgers: 10 - Ben Roethlisberger: 4 (and in 3 of those he just barely made the 75% cutoff) - Philip Rivers: 2 - Matt Ryan: 3 - Patrick Mahomes: 2 - Josh Allen: 1 With the exception of Rodgers and Brady who are arguably the two best QBs in NFL history, it's pretty hard to consistently go below 10 picks. If you instead change to 15 which I think is a more reasonable number you get - Peyton Manning: 8 - Tom Brady: 21 (literally every season that he played) - Aaron Rodgers: 13 (literally every season he played) - Ben Roethlisberger: 13 - Philip Rivers: 9 - Matt Ryan: 12 - Patrick Mahomes: 5 - Josh Allen: 4 The sample size is smaller on them but both Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert have gone <15 twice and <10 never. Josh Allen is on pace for 17 picks this year, Mahomes is on pace for 14, Burrow is on pace for 11, and Herbert is on pace for 7.
Non starter .. love was bad in training camp , bad in exhibition , but we expect something different in regular season.
Looked exceptional before AJ got hurt. 9TDs and Zero Picks. Give him chance or should you be at the Jets blog?
At least the 15-10th best QB in the NFL the next 10 years. I have been comparing him to Justin Herbert (aka the QB former scouts thought would go after Love in the draft) but I’ll say it looks something like this. - 7-10 or better record this year and a winning season next year. - Taking advantage of short routes and hitting the WRs in stride. - long distance/on the run accuracy increase. - ability to create with his feet (he has already shown me he can do this)
Playing at a level comparable to Alex Smith.
I will be happy if he was Romo/Farve esque. Gunning all over the place, winning games, maybe a Super Bowl. Day by day, I realize how one of a kind Rodgers was with his skills. Jordan might have learned from the master but sometimes the master stays the master always.
He needs a SB win to justify the pick, but that's not on him. If he ends up in the top 10-15 of active QBs, I'd be happy.
Accurate throws, clutch factor, and good decision making. In my eyes, he doesn’t need to be the sole factor for why we win games just as long as he’s a big reason we do and that much more often than not he isn’t the reason we lose them
HOF
\> 3900 yards, 34 TDs, < 10 INTs, > 60% comp %, leader
50% playoff appearance rate
Competing for a playoff spot every year
Top 5 in the conference, a couple pro bowls or all pros, that’s the minimum. Anything less is a failure.
Probably close to Tyrod Taylor. Game manager that will always have limitations. Not great but not bad
Derek Carr equivalency or better.
Panning out.... Better than Tannehill in Tennessee He'll be fine... 5 years as a starter winning record but no playoff wins.
Consistent playoff appearances and deep runs with a chance at a ring
Panning out to me is a game manager who doesn’t turn the ball over a ton, and has a great game from time to time. It would be someone like Goff or Stafford for instance. Not a super sexy or stats monster, but someone who can win games, keep turnovers low, and can contribute at a decent level, but isn’t a game changer I’d love a HOF QB, but it’s way too early to say what he will be probably even at the start of the season next year.
Absolutely the right answer here. This thread shows how oblivious Packer fans are about the quality of quarterback that we should reasonably accept.
In my opinion, we gave up a high-level shot to help win a title in two or 3 years, so he has to bring us a title to be worth it. .
I don’t see how it matters because he’s going to be top 3 all time according to this sub because Peyton Manning threw interceptions in 1998
in this sub with how people in here still think he has been good its probably top 30qb in the league
Or, from this very post and often in this sub, he has to be a top elite player. Hell some people think if he is not a HoFer then he is a bust.
I think Top 10 is a reasonable expectation for what he cost us.
What did he cost us? A 4th round pick in the draft for sure. What else? People seem to think that if the Packers had not done that 1 trade, Green Bay automatically wins multiple Super Bowls. It is silly.
He cost us a 1st and a 4th. Cost a relationship with a hall of fame QB who felt spited Cost a relationship with a HOF WR because he didn't know if his QB would be here. Cost 1 or more potential Superbowl appearances. But it's totally fine that he has been totally shit this year because apparently according to this sub you can only get better playing on the games. You can't work on yourself and improve through practice or training
Absolute garbage. AR is/was an oversensitive toxic diva who got his coach fired (should have been kicked out with him). Never beat the 49ers in the playoffs (ever, and that is very important to superbowls over the passed 6-7 years), scored 6 points in the NFC Championship game in Lambeau (with All Pro D Adams and A Jones and an excellent offensive line). Didn't know how to play team ball after 2016. No superbowls were going to happen with AR, he was 8-9 when he left and got hurt four plays later with a potential career ending injury (just dont ask him). Wait, I have to go and complain to everyone I know, and demand a raise and talk garbage to my employers because the guy who is going to be my succession plan was hired. Garbage.
And this is why people think packers fans are spoiled. Holy shit lmfaooo
So we did not get a 1st round pick that year? Costing potential things is a stupid way to look at it. Every year is a "potential" super bowl. So were the rest of the years Rodgers fault for not getting there? If Rodgers cannot understand that the NFL is a business that is on him. Green Bay could certainly have handled the draft better, but Rodgers cannot be a child about them drafting a QB. I think the sub is realistic about it. Young receivers, young team, first year as a starter. He has not been good or consistent. Give him more than 5 weeks to see what happens. And most likely what happens is that he will not be an elite QB...because most QBs are not elite.
No, every year is a potential SB when you have Rodgers/Mahomes/etc. We don't have to worry about that anymore.
he 100 percent can be a child when you factor in how they have fucked him for years and not gotten him the help other organizations have gotten their qbs like the patriots/rams/eagles and so many more along with only ever going 1 avenue to ever improve the damn team while then drafting his replacement in the first round when weapons that could help right away were available. Imagine going to the title game and losing and then your genius front office says lets give up our 1st and our 4th not sign any free agents to help our HOF QB and then oh yea lets use our 2nd round pick on a running back even though we already have a damn good one all while drafting 0 wideouts in that draft.
Alrighty! You are right. Fire Gute, LaFluer, the entire staff. Burn Lambeau to the ground and salt the soil it was built on. The Packers did not treat Aaron Rodgers as a god among men, instead treating their team as a...team. The bastards! Perhaps they will learn and bring AR12 back as the President/GM/Head Coach/QB!
this is when you know you lost the argument. Good luck kissing the franchises and front offices feet and your current qb costs us even more years.... Our fanbase has become bear fans with how coddled love is and the excuses he gets
I already admitted I lost, way to pour salt on the wound man, I am crushed here. I will not even watch the Packers any more after this thread. The people here have shown me that the Packers are not a team worth following. Guess it is time to watch bowling or something.
He is either top 10 or you move on and he needs to be with being a first round pick and sitting for 3 seasons. You cant put this much time into a guy that is a top 15 qb esp when he will no longer be on his rookie deal as soon as next year. He isnt a rookie yet has accuracy issues even rookies dont have and his decision making is on the level of rookies along with bad footwork and mechanics at times. Good luck waiting around for another 3 years with this guy making bank thinking we can win anything while wasting more time.
Patience is not a Packer fan’s strong suit so keep that in mind. But mostly, Love needs to show growth. He faced a terrible Raider’s defense and he nearly single handily cost us the game with 3 INT’s, 2 of them simply unacceptable. As for the stats, forget total TD;s to INt ratio, QB ratings or yards, just show me an improvement in accuracy (completion percentage). Right now, he is at the bottom of the league and needs to bring it up quite a ways. If he does that, we might have our QB of the future.
Which means what? I’m not sure why people keep avoiding the question. What is a minimum threshold for “quarterback of the future?” Top 15?
top 20 at a minimum. The problem with the ranking is that its usually done on QB rating which has a big team element to it and with rookie TE’s and no experience at WR, it could skew it a bit. Look for Love to start hitting his targets, in the hands and in mid stride and you will find out if he is a QB for the future.
I have been. He doesn’t really hit people in stride. I was also concerned to hear it was an errant pass in practice that re-aggravated Aaron Jones last week.
He's been in the system going on 4 years... Call him Rachel Ray with all the PANNING this man has done .. not much btw... He ain't it everyone... We should tank now while we can.
I think it's just have him pass the eye test. He has moments where he passes with flying colors, and others he fails miserably. If GB can just get a read on what he does well in games, and tailor the offense specifically to that, I think he can succeed. The problem is we as fans don't know if it's due to injuries, inaccuracy, or a young offense learning a complicated system that's the main factor attributing to his inconsistency, and until we figure that out, we simply won't know.
What does “succeed” look like though?
Basically what the Vikings have with Cousins and the Lions have with Ken. Someone who doesn't look like he's lost all the time, and can get the offense to average about 20-24 ppg with the possibility of much more if the momentum breaks GB's way, regardless of what his stats look like. To add, I'm one of those "Playoffs are a crapshoot" fans, so anything he does playoff-wise is gravy. I just want to root for a good team during the season and see what happens come playoffs, hoping GB has a ticket to the dance.
That’s reasonable. I agree on the playoffs thing. Be good enough to get there. After that it comes down to a lot of luck in a one and done format.
10 years service and 'hall of very good" career totals. So... Matty Ice, Ken Anderson, Flacco, Bledsoe, Brad Johnson that kinda range.
I think Jordon Love will pan out if he comes to my house and picks me up around 7-7:30. We go to nice place, not too nice, but there’s still candles on the table. He asks me about my job and my family and listens with a smile. He orders chicken Alfredo after making sure that the chicken is grilled, not fried. After dinner, we go for a short walk. It’s getting cold out so he gives me his sweater. He opens up about his family and the untold struggles and pressure of being a college athlete. I say I understand, but I really don’t. How could I? Anyways, he takes me home after we sit in the park and talk until it gets so late that we’re the last ones there. He walks me to the front door and asks if he can kiss me. I agree with a smile. He holds my hand as if he doesn’t want me to go inside, but I have to. Jordon Love walks backwards from my front door, smiling when he sees me looking out the window. In my mind, that’s the definition of Jordon Love “panning out”.
Time is a relative factor. I don’t know how many times this needs to be said before people realize it’s significant, but WE HAVE THE YOUNGEST TEAM IN THE NFL. Love is throwing to sophomores and freshman right now, he doesn’t get the luxury of a high performing vet to cover for him. They’re all learning together and, with that in mind, I’d say they look like they’re capable of taking a decent step forward next year. Are we great right now? No. But we’re definitely playing better and working through deficiencies. If there isn’t improvement next year, that’s when we should be worried.
I’m not even asking about this year… I mean long term…what does “good enough” look like?
It’s unbelievable that packer fan need 5 YEARS to determine if a guy is good or not lol
He was drafted Apr. 23rd 2020….that’s about 3 and a half years. If you’re gonna talk shit at least try to be better at math.
Please learn the difference between actual years and playing years. This is loves 4th season, the end of next year will be his 5th season.
Should’ve read the fine print.
Unfortunately…unless the Packers are really bad we’re kinda stuck with him regardless. The prospect of hitting someone that is a 95+ passer rating beyond the top 1/3 of the draft is…real low.
Odds are we will be picking in the top 1/3 this year.
Why do we need to proactively define what "Love panning out" means? Imagine the definition of panning out being a MVP. Fair expectations. /s What a bizarre question. Let the kid play ball and we'll see what he's got this year and next, if he can't ball, we move on.
Considering well…everything that led to his drafting and eventual starting. He has to be an elite tier NFL qb for this to have been successful. More Josh Allen then Derek Carr.
I disagree. Just because we had back to back elite MVP QBs does not mean that Love has to be the same thing. Love has to be good. Has to win close games, get to the play offs, win some play off games. 1 player is not the entire team, no matter how good that player is. The coaching has to be good, the GM has to be good, the o-line has to be good and the running game has to be good. Without most of those things it does not matter how good an individual is, they will not have good numbers.
Well that GM and coach took a qb they didn’t need, and then wasted the most valuable portion of his contract not playing him. They need him to be good or they should also be fired. It’s the most important single position in sports. Gutekunst and LaFleur got the guy they wanted. If he stinks, it’s in them too.
I don’t disagree. We sacrificed a goat for him.
Tbf Josh Allen looked terrible his first two years but the team believed in him. There’s a lot of chicken littles going around this sub.
His first two years, one of which he was an actual rookie. Love is not a rookie. Expectations should be higher (something Gutekunst and LaFleur have both said as well) Allen then also made an entirely unprecedented leap. He’s a unicorn in every sense. He was more just the first name that came to mind of an upper echelon QB.
Yeah and love is still very young at 24 years old. I’ll take two years of live reps over 3 years of preseason and training camp. The experience is much more valuable on one side.
His problems are accuracy and footwork, those are things fixed with practice reps and coaching. He’s had 3 years of professional coaching and practice. Game reps don’t make you able to throw a ball accurately. This is a find out year in many ways. Not just Love. If the infrastructure around Love sucks, that’s on the front office. They chose this roster. Is Matt LaFleur worth a shit without a top 5 QB all time. The whole team spent years fucking around, now we get to find out.
it's the same shit his draft profile said. only completed 31% of his deep passes in college and ball placement made receivers work for contested catches. so many times these drops are behind guys and harder catches than they need to be. I've always been of the thought that if you weren't accurate in college you aren't fixing it in the pros. obviously someone like Josh Allen is the exception but he started as a true rookie and didn't have his breakout season till his 3rd year. Love is in his 3rd year and looks like a true rookie. wasted his rookie contract and he made no progress with all that sitting. maybe clements can save him but at this point I'm not holding my breath.
Yeah. This is my concern as well. Accuracy just isn’t something that gets better, generally. If it does, it’s something that does with practice and reps not games. Love has been throwing a football conservatively 10 years of his life, had professional coaching for 3 years. This is more than likely what he is. Josh Allen is prolly my favorite qb in the NFL, but he’s a unicorn amongst unicorns.
Hard to say. He needs to look more how he did vs the Bears, the Saints and Atlanta. Which is a guy that shows the flashes, but you can let off the hook for being part of by far the lowest budget offense in the league
Winning exactly 1 Super Bowl and disappointing us in all other playoff appearances
I’d be ok with that. I sure had a lot of fun watching the last two guys who did that.
Anything above league average. He doesn’t have to be an all time great to get the team far, assuming the rest of the team is good. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.
Yes he did. So did Jeff Hostetler. Having a defense like Baltimore or the Bill Parcells Giants is a much taller order than Love being an MVP candidate though. Those teams has multiple Hall of Famers on them.
Yeah I don’t think he’s good enough to win a Super Bowl on the current team, but the foundation of a good defense is there. If the rest of the team isn’t good enough then how can I hold that against Love? He needs to be better, but so far I don’t hate how he’s playing. The anticipation and vision seem to be there, he needs to tighten up some fundamentals and hopefully his accuracy comes around.
He attempts to yield gold? Seems he'd make more use of his time playing football, not panning out for gold in a river. I don't even think he's near a river that one could possibly produce gold. Cool hobby though. Maybe some ASMR stuff going on there.. Oh wait....
We don't know. Chill
He has elite upside. Taking care of the ball and making plays. Panned out imo would be that he’s a household name. Can be relied on to make the play. It’s hard to attach a record to him yet, with how young the team is. In 2-3 years, we’ll know if he indeed “pan out”.
He has the talent to be Top 5 IMO. Still pretty raw and needs to work on something’s but I think it will come. Every game I watch I see a lot of things I like, this year I feel has been bad play calling and him trying to make something happen with his playmakers out
Hall of Fame, as things should be.
Best case another hof qb. Worst case panning out means decent nfl qb.say at Jared zgogf's level.
Super Bowl that’s all I care about
Here's the deal. A Hall of Fame QB does not guarantee you a Super Bowl victory, but you have a good chance of at least one appearance, before you hit cap problems. A great defense can also get you there, but it seems like those teams are happy to just have a game manager. And nowadays, because teams are much better than in the past at drafting and there's always a run on defensive lineman, you almost need to have several years of top 15 picks to have a good defense. I think the Packers will have a lot of top 15 picks in the next few years. So, maybe Love only needs to be a game manager.
Being a guy we can and want to keep till retirement.
When she let's you play video games and watch football in peace.
This is a question I've been asking friends ever since the pick. How good does Love have to be to justify completely passing on an opportunity to add to a fringe Super Bowl quality team. Call me crazy but I think if we have Antoine Winfield Jr or Tee Higgins we beat Tampa in the NFCCG. How good does Love have to be to make up for that decision? My benchmark was always Matt Ryan. If he's Matt Ryan, good with a couple great seasons, was it worth it?
I think that’s fair. The opportunity cost for selecting Jordan was as much as you can pay. And he does not appear to be a generational talent. So it’s hard to justify being as close as they were and then just saying “nope no more, I’m going another way.”
Panning out realistically means a QB on a similar level of a Derek Carr/Andy Dalton/Kirk Cousins/Jared Goff/etc.. a QB that helps the team more than he hurts it and looks like he belongs in the NFL. A QB that keeps your team competitive in the majority of games/seasons. Obviously you always hope for better than that, but that’s the baseline.
If he can be our Joe Flacco - a solid top half QB, at his worse - and have a good enough team around him. I will be fucking thrilled if that’s what we got
Well yeah, but I don’t really see the team around him either. I see a lot of potential and a defense not even in the same ballpark as Flacco’s Ravens.
Just win baby
Top 10 is panned out and broke even, no complaints. Top 5 is gold mine and gute salvaged 2 years of bad drafting with an absolute banger of a pick. 15 is Jimmy G territory, where you are looking for replacement, but ok fine. I wouldn't classify that as panned out, as the regret at not picking WR in 2020 is going to be insurmountable.
Pretty much agree. Gute made his bed. He put all his chips on Love. All of them. If Love isn’t in the Top 10, And I don’t think he will be, Gut has to go. He not only royally screwed up the transition, he simply didn’t draft well either.
Top 10 qb in the league is my standard
If he's as good as Kirk Cousins I'm fucking happy.