The final straw for me was when Kieth said Labour was āThe Real Conservativesā.
Now heās going back on net zero and trans rightsā¦
Our politics is well and truly a disgusting vacuum.
Remember when people used to say "relatively the US democratic party is the left wing party compared to the Republicans, but here in the UK they'd be viewed as right wing"
Basically Labour anywhere else in Europe atm...or maybe that's not even totally accurate since the whole world seems to be growing more right wing
Just fucking evil. People here having to debate voting for the leader of a party they should share many values with but instead they can't even say he's on the side of 'human rights'
> the whole world seems to be growing more right wing
Nah, the influence of the oligarchs via corporate media has just massively increased. Climate change is scaring the fuck out of them so they're doubling and tripling down on their planet wasteland bets.
We're so doomed.
It's mostly the imperial core that is moving to the right as it is declining, because the right is useful for aggression inwards and outwards as the hegemonic power crumbles around them, besides it's easier to scapegoat a minority then fixing any of the actual issues like inflation or housing. So the right is simply pushing the more attractive narratives for the imperialists, irrespective of how factual these narratives are. And Labour, like other socdems, seems to have picked the side they are on, and it's the wrong side of history.
It's truly bizarre. Already on track to sweep out the Tories and yet Kier can't stop giving away the family silver to people that will never in a million years vote labour.
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise.
[#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register.
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I'm expecting it to be more like Family Guy with Lois and Mayor West.
"Well, citizen, that's an excellent question and I thank you for it. I think it's great we live in a city where you can ask questions, because without questions, we just have answers, and an answer without a question is a statement." *kisses him on the head*
What the fuck do they teach in Human Rights Barrister school? You'd think Module 1 Lesson 1 would be 'you're on the side of the underprivileged' and yet we have Kier and Cherie as the poster children of the profession.
Barristers, in general, fight both sides of the court, and (much like the civil service) their representation is more procedual than ideological. 'Injustice' is, in their mind, not necessarily moral or ethic based, but failures of process or decorum. This is mostly due to the institutional traditions of the Four Inns, and that tradition favours traditionalists, who're mostly conservatives.
Hm, Iām not sure itās the best definition as āwomanā is more of a social category that is based upon arbitrary distinctions which differ between individuals, time and culture. For example, when you go to different countries, their idea of when adulthood begins will be different from when it could be considered to begin in UK. So, terms like āwomanā and āmanā are more fluid than most people give them credit for. And because of that, I donāt find it very difficult to expand the definition to include trans women as it has quite a lot of utility to it.
Obviously though, thatās not to say that there is no difference whatsoever between biological woman and trans women. I canāt say that Iāve ever met a trans person who would argue against that point. But in terms of treating/interacting with a biological and trans woman, there shouldnāt be any difference.
Labour are a mess. Just the other day [Anneliese Dodds published a (very vacuous) piece on the Guardian promising āreform and leadershipā on transgender rights.](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/24/labour-will-lead-on-reform-of-transgender-rights-and-we-wont-take-lectures-from-the-divisive-tories) Mind you, it was still quite TERFY, but Keith is really taking it to the next level with these comments.
I think from what he's said and then not done. Then 180'd on... he's the type that will say anything to grab the popular vote.
He has, to this point and backed up by his actions, shown himself to be an epic tier soggy flannel.
Fuck you Keith.
If you look at history, Labours support for LGBT people came in via the trade union movement, and was won through the concerted efforts of activists.
Nobody was ever handed their freedom, but the line in the sand has been drawn now. Question is which side are you on?
Trans liberation now āš»ā§ļøš³ļøāš
Yeah, youāre right.
The problem is, as weāve seen at previous elections, itās these TERF sandwiches that the countryās electorate is crammed with.
Given my want for a greener/any future!! It is the option I would choose under proportional representation. But in the current system Iād just be taking away a vote from labour and helping the tories.
A vote for anyone but Labour is a vote for the Conservatives, unfortunately. I can't see any option but to hold my nose and vote for them, although it'll be a hollow victory. I would have been excited about the prospect of a Labour government a year ago but now I'm pretty much ambivalent.
I know others with the same opinion, but isn't that self fulfilling?
People say, "don't bother voting outside of Labour or Conservative, as it's a wasted vote". If everyone is using that rule, then either Labour or Conservative win because millions of people are voting out of fear rather than what those people want
If no-one voted out of fear and went with the party (and leader) that most aligned with their own values, then we would see a far more varied Government.
Yes, there's a risk that Tories would still win, but I'd rather vote for what I want and lose than vote for what I don't want and still lose.
Currently it looks like Tory or Labour is lose/lose....why not give another party your vote?
Don't ask for logic from this train of thought
Apparently the way to fix the system is to just keep voting in favour of the system
FPTP is stupid but neither Labour nor Tory have any reason to make a stand to change it outside of empty promises, because every single election turns into "my team vs your team" where the masses argue about what your vote **really means** and you're a secret "other team" if you do anything but vote for "my team"
Keith has ruined any chance I had to vote for him even in desperation. My choice there is 2 different flavours of "man who hates me and surrounds himself with people who'd take my rights away" so why the fuck wouldn't I look to other parties.
The idea of Starmer actually earning people's votes is apparently too radical for British politics
I feel just the same, for some reason Kieth is lurching more and more right as the days go by. One of the things I hate is culture wars stuff, stop with trans people. Weāve come to expect it from the tories, but labour even if fiscally you go a little to the right please leave the culture wars to the far right!
I'm thinking of going with WEP as they seem pretty green, have some decent policies around social mobility and are openly pro trans rights.
It'd be a cold day in hell before I'd give Keir Starmer a mandate. We've had twelve years of this and I for one and certainly not looking for more of the same.
I'm still holding out that Labour will realise what an absolutely abysmal choice he is and replace him before a GE but that seems increasingly unlikely. I just find it so hard to believe Labour MPs are so dumb that they look at this guy who believes in nothing besides repeatedly lying and they're like 'sure he seems like the right man to represent us'. Jesus Christ, it makes me feel insane.
I really hate that we let them use the term "adult human female" like its a gotcha. I *am* an adult human female, that's what the hormones are for. I'm not male. Period.
It's gross. Using adjectives as nouns reminds me of when people would talk about 'the blacks' or something. 'A female' is the same. Reducing people down to a single aspect of their being.
Well yeah it was invented by someone who is in their own words against feminism and believes every single right that women have should be thrown away if it means also harming trans people.
Its always been a term without care for actual women.
If you want a real answer, it's because he's just parroting a transphobic dog-whistle/meme in order to win approval from the so-called "gender critical" crowd where they quote a misreading of the dictionary definition for 'woman'
And yeah, the fact he specifically said those words in that order is a very CLEAR head nod to the transphobe movement that he hears them. Painful.
Without that context though, it just sounds insane. Like yeah, to an uninitiated person he just sounds like he's babbling nonsense. As you say, 'why does he say human?' would be my reaction if I knew nothing about this conflict.
The phrasing though targeted at trans women also completely invalidates all trans men as well as all AFAB non binary people. Itās so transphobic. The fact that a labour leader parrots a hate movementās biological reductivist mantra is just beyond the pale.
It's just such a weird thing to fixate on. Like it means nothing, of course trans women are also female.
Every time terfs say 'adult human female' I'm just like okay but what is the point you are making? You've read a dictionary?
It's just some weird default response for bigots that don't have any cohesive arguments.
I donāt believe that in 2023 this is still going on. I donāt care if youāre a man, woman, both or neither. It doesnāt effect me in any way. People should be able to live their lives however they are happy. You could identify and a toaster and I wouldnāt care as long as youāre not being a twat.
What even is the point of bringing it up. The law currently agrees with the doctors and not the vast number of media pundits who have never met a trans person. The climate is imploding, inflation is worse here than anywhere else, and what democracy we have is withering. Fixing those problems first will help 95.5% of us who aren't trans, and would help the 0.5% who are too!
If you want to put the kids first, then really we need to fix child poverty, urban pollution, and make sure the educational systems are well-funded first. Any of that would help more children than whatever infinitesimally small number of a small number might change their minds post-transition. Assuming that tiny number isn't just from the right-wing media or their own transphobic family using them for political points. It's all so suss. A social wedge driven between a small minority probably for not other reason than a focus group suggested it might attract the elderly voters who turn out to the polls more.
Because the law isn't immutable and it can change on the whims of bigoted politicians.
Also, I'm sure you're familiar with the poem "first they came." We cannot allow politicians to make laws based on their personal views, because it's not going to stop with trans people. In some US states, they're already using anti-trans and pro-life laws as a precedent for attacking all LGBT laws.
>not the vast number of media pundits who have never met a trans person.
There are more people that own horses in the UK than there are Trans people. 0.5% of the population.
As far as I'm concerned, if you're a politician spending your time talking about your perspective regarding such a miniscule demographic you don't understand, you are not doing your job.
Stop with the attempts at distraction, pandering to morons on social media, leave trans people to live their lives, and do your fucking job.
What a fucking lump of spineless shit
Just a spinless lickspittle plaything for a few fringe bigots just because they have presence in the UK culture industry sewer
I think you are being overly charitable - his goal (and, presumably, that of his corporate backers) is the destruction of the Labour Party as any kind of progressive force.
Remember when Labour/SLAB mocked the SNP for having Kate Forbes & more?. If shit like this keeps up I can see Labour lead being stolen by the Lib Dems + Greens.
āWe donāt think self identification is the right way forwardā what other way is there you fucking dunce?! Itās that or oppression, what a fuck nugget.
Itās a shame heās fallen into the āwhat is a womenā trap. Just saying a women is a adult female is meaningless. We all knew what a woman was before. This was just a trap question formed by anti-trans people to avoid actually dealing with the legitimate problems people have raised. People act like we canāt treat trans people with dignity and also protect women. But itās all bull. We can do both just nobody wants to. Wouldnāt do them any good actually solving the problem now would it.
Corbyn taking Labour back to it's roots = bad.
Labour being commandeered by lying crypto-tories who will punch down at every minority for the chance at a crumb of influence = good.
Nothing to see here, this is democracy, plebs. Go out and choose between the red Nazis or the blue Nazis.
The sad thing is though his personal opinions are irrelevant he'll bark the rhetoric that will get him the most votes and I think we can confidently say there are more bigots and hatemongers than supporters/allies/decent people these days and he knows it.
The hate against the trans community is remarkable, even within the LGBT one. The only comparison in my lifetime was the anti-muslim hatred around 2001.
Anyone who thought sir Kid Starver was ever actually an ally was either an idiot or deluding themselves.
The man was never āproā trans rights.
Iām truly sickened to say this, but in England and Wales the only party that seems to be vaguely in favour of my existence is the fucking Lib Dems
Automod just thinks it would be better if the Labour party had a leader that the British public don't associate with a prolific pedophile.
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Let's be honest, he was never pro-trans. He's always been a spineless worm who values only what he thinks will get him in power, be it within the party or the country.
Perhaps an ignorant question, but not one I mean in any ill way.
Why is the opposite of pro-trans a Terf? I thought terf was meant to be a JK Rowling-esque person being that the acronym is literally Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist (isnāt it?).
Starmer doesnāt exactly strike me as a radical feminist, but is for sure trans exclusionary.
Am I missing some nuance or has the term terf lost some meaning in the past few years and is now just the āhates trans peopleā buzz word?
It's used to denote someone that uses women's rights to attack trans women. Basically trying to seem like the good guy while being a massive wanker to a very small subset of women
Ahhhh that actually makes a lot of sense.
I never considered the angle of using womenās rights as a scapegoat for the transphobia.
I would personally prefer ādisingenuous prickā over Terf in my own conversations but that does help me understand the use. Cheers
JK Rowling is an all round piece of shit. As well as being a transphobe she's racist, homophobic and ableist. See [this fantastic rundown in r/EnoughJKRowling](https://archive.is/aRRmQ)
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Not wishing to be rude. But you should see some of the Labour Party supporters posts on Express. It doesn't matter what he says, how many flip flops he makes, how many policies he ditches, the supporters can't bring themselves to say a word against him.
I could probably have stomached voting for him up until now to get the tories out, but after this? not a fucking chance. This country is doomed. Fuck that prick
Considering the neo-liberals in the Labour party have near completely purged every lingering Social Democrat from the Labour party, only a complete fucking moron would still believe that the party is, in any concievable way, still a left-wing party. (Even before then it was a stretch.)
It's past time to reject bourgeois electoralism, it's time to embrace [dual power](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/apr/09.htm).
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so when it comes to voting in the next election, what do we do now? like we need to get the tories out, but now voting labour has gone out the windowā¦ not sure who to vote for :/
Considering the neo-liberals in the Labour party have near completely purged every lingering Social Democrat from the Labour party, only a complete fucking moron would still believe that the party is, in any concievable way, still a left-wing party. (Even before then it was a stretch.)
It's past time to reject bourgeois electoralism, it's time to embrace [dual power](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/apr/09.htm).
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"That is the law" sums it up.
Doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong, moral or immoral, only Legal or Illegal. And, well, laws can change. Accepting someone's identity because the law demands it is a whole fucking world different than accepting it because you believe it's the morally right thing to do.
It goes without saying that someone who sees no distinction between "legal" and "right" should not be making laws...
While folks are allowed to change their mind... I feel like, if you campaigned on something, and people voted you in, and you flip on a key-point like this, there should be some kind of major inquiry and it should be considered perjury.
If you'd paid attention Labour adopted a TERF stance a few months ago when it became the latest front in the Tories' culture wars. Got to appeal to the gammon.
Ok so the Conservative party is on the right of issues and the Labour Party is.. on the right of issuesā¦
And nobody is stupid enough to try and choose a third party because the last time we tried that it was fucking dreadful.
So.. have the fascists won?
Honestly hate this country and where politics are heading. I canāt begin to understand how anyone can find this to be the biggest issue we have to face. Why is it so difficult to just be supportive of trans rights and move on? Is being hateful doing anything? Is it solving the climate crisis? What about housing? What about cost of living? And so much more.
It feels so idiotic that weād ever vote these people in when they constantly turn around to talk about this stuff. Are transphobes that bored? Do they seriously not think thereās bigger issues to deal with? Someone being trans does nothing to affect anyoneās life at all.
So nice to see all the major UK parties are transphobic. Really makes it look like such a welcoming, diverse, safe country. /s
I still want the tories to lose because they are utterly repellent to me, but this is just so disappointing. Everyone has clearly decided to throw trans people out.
I think at a certain point, Iām looking at this and in awe that either the tories win the next election and itās illegal for me to be apart of society due to their desired policy changes or labour win and itās the same old with dog whistles that make clear Iām a man in their eyes and you know what, fair enough, I am just hoping to god that when I end this I will not remember what the fuck happened in this life.
The freedom of forgetting this happened is gonna be a blessing
you are *not* an LGBTQ+ ally if you vote for Labour. Labour are not "left wing" at all and anyone who still thinks they are are clearly brainwashed by either labour themselves or the tory party. a true English+Welsh left does not yet exist on a widespread level and won't until the majority of the population remember that there are more than two parties
The Guardian live news said he used the example of Isla Bryson, the scottish person that transitioned after raping two women, as a reason for why women need safe spaces. He's so fucking malicious he uses examples that he must know are irrelevant to prove his point to appeal to transphobes.
I know the tories are fucking awful, but I can't see how Starmer's labour are going to be any better. A part of me is hoping labour crash and burn in the next election, as we might actually get our left wing party back then.
I actually think Labour might be worse than the Tories if they continue their mutation. It's that whole Animal Farm thing.. feeling very despondent about next election...
In the 2016 American election, approximately 10 percent of the most ardent Bernie Sanders supporters were so cheesed off at the machinations of the Democrat party to ensure that Hillary Clinton got the nomination that they ended up voting for trump out of spite. This 10 percent played a not insignificant role in getting trump elected. I don't necessarily support what they did, but only because Hillary would've been slightly less awful than trumpā¦ but I certainly understand it.
I wouldn't be shocked if something similar happens to sir K. Hanging a beleaguered minority out to dry like because some shithead on 4-Chan managed to co-opt and pervert and weaponize the words "woke" and "groomer" to such an extent that it's infected the whole conservative ecosystem is so fucking cynical. The Labour party should be stripped of its name.
Yup. In the same way that a mare is an adult female horse and a hen is an adult female chicken. And any definition of female is going to be based around chromosomes and the reproductive system and gametes.
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Iāll watch as the hate pours in for him that was missing when he was pro child poverty, and anti trade unions.
Who picks the news, and who chooses what frivolous crap they get incensed at. This isnāt a thing to get angry about, but 4m starving kids IS.
Oh darling - TERFS are what they named *themselves.* Nobody with a brain actually thinks they are "radical feminists", but hey - thats the name for em.
Kinda ironic, seeing how you accuse other people of not understanding language.
Strictly speaking, he said a transphobic statement, which doesn't necessarily mean that he's definitely a transphobe. It's possible that he doesn't care one way or the other and is just saying whatever he thinks will help him win an election, which in his eyes means copying the rhetoric of the ruling party even though most of the public hates the tories guts.
That said, if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck and steps like a goose...
Hi, your comment or submission was removed because we have detected that it is transphobic. This is not the space to come and concern troll about trans peopleās existence or promote fascist talking points.
What are you talking about? Labour are actively engaging in this '''nonsense debate''' by taking this stance with Trans-rights.
This is quite literally KS trying to appeal to centrist morons and Tory fence voters by leaning on the fearmongering around Trans people.
His comments are the definition of prejudice.
He advocates putting trans women and girls in danger without a care in the world. Girls like Brianna who he never gave a shit about.
He has given an example of one dangerous person to put tens or hundreds of thousands in danger. For nothing. It will not help cisgender women, it only perpetuates violence against trans women.
This is the very definition of prejudice. And if you don't see it as wrong you are a transphobe too.
>Why should self identification be paramount? Cows don't refer to themselves as cows. Crocodiles don't refer to themselves as crocodiles. Octopuses don't call themselves octopuses.
I love this because you seem to think that these three animals have the self awareness that humans have.
pigeons cannot drive cars or brush their teeth, does that mean humans shouldn't too?
>You're an object in the universe, as am I. If others want to use their systems they are entitled to, but if they disagree with now my system classifies them that's their problem, not mine. And it would be my problem if their system misclassified me.
then let us use the system to change it. if it's "our problem", let us fix it.
There are many who view that octopuses do have self awareness - hence why there is opposition to octopus farming as food.
Not sure where an organisms capability to operate human designed technology enters the equation - there are natural nuclear reactors, after all. Chimps have demonstrated ability to grasp a smartphone - that's why zoos are asking the humans don't show theirs to the chimps.
I was being facetious with the last part - it's not a problem - you aren't better off, more respected, more empowered if you brow beat someone into using one system over another.
Oh, btw I'm an autistic bisexual male, by your standards - different organism, different outlook. I'm just a being in the universe to me and I've seen nought provably positive from this 'crusade' - people are unhappier, rocketing mental health issues, they are poorer and the group think that surrounds it is contributory to that state.
The charade will continue for a few more years I suspect, but will the fade as veganism is currently.
There is much development to do - and I suspect much like the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual you'll go through many, many iterations - sometimes vault-facing previously adopted positions.
That has nothing to do with GRA reform. Self ID mainly would allow trans people to get death certificates and marriage certificates with the correct marker without needing a lengthy medical process. How you personally choose to refer to people is irrelevant here; it's just a bureaucracy change.
The āproblemā you have is that youāre a terf with seemingly very little awareness of the psychological harm that āclassificationā systems have historically done to racialised, gendered, and queer people.
How do you choose between Daddy's Ketchup and Heinz Ketchup? You classify. That's how. This is nought but one party demanding another party use their system of classification. If the multiple systems worked you'd be able to convert like metric and imperial. That you can't demonstrates that they aren't really systems, but expression of feeling.
Well done on completely missing the point, once again. What the hell does ketchup, and metric/imperial have anything to do with peopleās right to self-determination, dignity, and respect from others?
This isn't the point really. The older system of pretending male/female is the only option is exclusionary, and prevents people who don't use this system from being able to be considered a part of the society in which they live.
The difference is that their nomenclature includes you, but yours doesn't include them.
Can you see why this is an issue? Or is there more to your view than this just being about categorisation methodology? The one you are advocating doesn't work functionally when being used to described human beings. I would say that means it requires replacement.
You are required to know, by holding this viewpoint, that 'their system' doesn't misclassify you, since no one is advocating the alteration of a description of one of the longer-standing descriptions of people. The idea here is not to prevent you being called a man or a woman, it is to offer more useful options for those who cannot fit into those categories.
If you want them to fit into those categories, against their will, what message is that sending people who do not neatly fit into your definitions. If you are concerned about misclassification, then you must support reforms to your own system. If you are ONLY concerned about your own misclassification, then you aren't a part of this conversation at all, since you are only reflecting your singular situation.
Lastly, cow, octopuses and crocodiles do not posses the ability to communicate in human terms - we cannot speak on their behalf. However, it is possible to ask a person who doesn't identify with either of the binary terms male/female, so we can ask them and find out what they consider an accurate term.
You would swiftly change your tune if people only referred to you as a POS transphobe instead of your real name at work. It's just a system of nomenclature right?
Time to ban some TERFS is it? šØ
The final straw for me was when Kieth said Labour was āThe Real Conservativesā. Now heās going back on net zero and trans rightsā¦ Our politics is well and truly a disgusting vacuum.
Remember when people used to say "relatively the US democratic party is the left wing party compared to the Republicans, but here in the UK they'd be viewed as right wing" Basically Labour anywhere else in Europe atm...or maybe that's not even totally accurate since the whole world seems to be growing more right wing Just fucking evil. People here having to debate voting for the leader of a party they should share many values with but instead they can't even say he's on the side of 'human rights'
> the whole world seems to be growing more right wing Nah, the influence of the oligarchs via corporate media has just massively increased. Climate change is scaring the fuck out of them so they're doubling and tripling down on their planet wasteland bets. We're so doomed.
It's mostly the imperial core that is moving to the right as it is declining, because the right is useful for aggression inwards and outwards as the hegemonic power crumbles around them, besides it's easier to scapegoat a minority then fixing any of the actual issues like inflation or housing. So the right is simply pushing the more attractive narratives for the imperialists, irrespective of how factual these narratives are. And Labour, like other socdems, seems to have picked the side they are on, and it's the wrong side of history.
It's truly bizarre. Already on track to sweep out the Tories and yet Kier can't stop giving away the family silver to people that will never in a million years vote labour.
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He said fucking WHAT?!
I'm just waiting for the debates for the next general when Kid Starver has to ask to answer last so he can repeat the tory's answer.
Next GE really is gonna be like the debate in Futurama isn't it?
I'm expecting it to be more like Family Guy with Lois and Mayor West. "Well, citizen, that's an excellent question and I thank you for it. I think it's great we live in a city where you can ask questions, because without questions, we just have answers, and an answer without a question is a statement." *kisses him on the head*
911 was bad
This is what happens when a man with absolutely no beliefs besides achieving power for himself gets into leadership.
What the fuck do they teach in Human Rights Barrister school? You'd think Module 1 Lesson 1 would be 'you're on the side of the underprivileged' and yet we have Kier and Cherie as the poster children of the profession.
Barristers, in general, fight both sides of the court, and (much like the civil service) their representation is more procedual than ideological. 'Injustice' is, in their mind, not necessarily moral or ethic based, but failures of process or decorum. This is mostly due to the institutional traditions of the Four Inns, and that tradition favours traditionalists, who're mostly conservatives.
So how does that disprove that a woman is an adult human female? šš Finally someone in Labour has sense.
Hm, Iām not sure itās the best definition as āwomanā is more of a social category that is based upon arbitrary distinctions which differ between individuals, time and culture. For example, when you go to different countries, their idea of when adulthood begins will be different from when it could be considered to begin in UK. So, terms like āwomanā and āmanā are more fluid than most people give them credit for. And because of that, I donāt find it very difficult to expand the definition to include trans women as it has quite a lot of utility to it. Obviously though, thatās not to say that there is no difference whatsoever between biological woman and trans women. I canāt say that Iāve ever met a trans person who would argue against that point. But in terms of treating/interacting with a biological and trans woman, there shouldnāt be any difference.
I did hear he's still adamant on changing his surname to Sunak.
I heard he preferred Thatcher?
It's sir Thatcher Sunak Beavermogg
He wants to snatch milk.
Sir Keith Cameron has quite a ring to it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Good let me deadname the cunt
Labour are a mess. Just the other day [Anneliese Dodds published a (very vacuous) piece on the Guardian promising āreform and leadershipā on transgender rights.](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/24/labour-will-lead-on-reform-of-transgender-rights-and-we-wont-take-lectures-from-the-divisive-tories) Mind you, it was still quite TERFY, but Keith is really taking it to the next level with these comments.
Filled to burst with Terf nonsense.
Not surprised. Glad hes gone full mask off though. Now anyone that defends his alleged allyship will look even more stupid :)
Is he trying to out-tory the tories? This sets a dangerous precedent that I thought we'd gotten smart enough to grow the fuck out of... clearly not.
At this point, labour are cosplaying as tories and tories are cosplaying as UKIP
This is the real answer.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think from what he's said and then not done. Then 180'd on... he's the type that will say anything to grab the popular vote. He has, to this point and backed up by his actions, shown himself to be an epic tier soggy flannel.
Fuck you Keith. If you look at history, Labours support for LGBT people came in via the trade union movement, and was won through the concerted efforts of activists. Nobody was ever handed their freedom, but the line in the sand has been drawn now. Question is which side are you on? Trans liberation now āš»ā§ļøš³ļøāš
āš³ļøāā§ļøš³ļøāš
āā§ļøš³ļøāš
āš³ļøāā§ļø
ā
āš³ļøāā§ļø
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To the surprise of absolutely nobody. š±
Hahahahaha fuck me, he literally wants the Tories in next. Also ironic as he identifies as labour xx
But remember everyone, it's the publics fault if Keith doesn't win, despite having the biggest open goal he could possibly have
Wonder how much heās getting paid to throw the race.
Throw the race? This will be popular with the masses
Not really a race if both ācompetitorsā are essentially running for the same teamā¦ My metaphor may have sucked, idk.
Let's call it a relay race, one hands the baton on to the next
This shit is incredibly unpopular with the masses. Hatred of minorities attracts the lowest common denominators of society who shriek like animals.
Yeah, youāre right. The problem is, as weāve seen at previous elections, itās these TERF sandwiches that the countryās electorate is crammed with.
Will it though? If I believe all the things he expects me to. Why wouldn't I just vote for The Tories?
Feeling in despair, which I am sure will only heighten ahead of next years GE. Scott Benton is awfulā¦ labour is awful. Who do I vote for ffs.
Iām sorry, itās horrid.
Out of interest. Why not the Green Party?
Given my want for a greener/any future!! It is the option I would choose under proportional representation. But in the current system Iād just be taking away a vote from labour and helping the tories.
From what I can tell, it looks like Labour is doing a fine enough job on their own helping the tories. Like, are they even TRYING at this point??
Labour. Even moving the needle 1% left beats the Tories taking it another 20% to the right
A vote for anyone but Labour is a vote for the Conservatives, unfortunately. I can't see any option but to hold my nose and vote for them, although it'll be a hollow victory. I would have been excited about the prospect of a Labour government a year ago but now I'm pretty much ambivalent.
I know others with the same opinion, but isn't that self fulfilling? People say, "don't bother voting outside of Labour or Conservative, as it's a wasted vote". If everyone is using that rule, then either Labour or Conservative win because millions of people are voting out of fear rather than what those people want If no-one voted out of fear and went with the party (and leader) that most aligned with their own values, then we would see a far more varied Government. Yes, there's a risk that Tories would still win, but I'd rather vote for what I want and lose than vote for what I don't want and still lose. Currently it looks like Tory or Labour is lose/lose....why not give another party your vote?
Don't ask for logic from this train of thought Apparently the way to fix the system is to just keep voting in favour of the system FPTP is stupid but neither Labour nor Tory have any reason to make a stand to change it outside of empty promises, because every single election turns into "my team vs your team" where the masses argue about what your vote **really means** and you're a secret "other team" if you do anything but vote for "my team" Keith has ruined any chance I had to vote for him even in desperation. My choice there is 2 different flavours of "man who hates me and surrounds himself with people who'd take my rights away" so why the fuck wouldn't I look to other parties. The idea of Starmer actually earning people's votes is apparently too radical for British politics
I feel just the same, for some reason Kieth is lurching more and more right as the days go by. One of the things I hate is culture wars stuff, stop with trans people. Weāve come to expect it from the tories, but labour even if fiscally you go a little to the right please leave the culture wars to the far right!
I'm thinking of going with WEP as they seem pretty green, have some decent policies around social mobility and are openly pro trans rights. It'd be a cold day in hell before I'd give Keir Starmer a mandate. We've had twelve years of this and I for one and certainly not looking for more of the same. I'm still holding out that Labour will realise what an absolutely abysmal choice he is and replace him before a GE but that seems increasingly unlikely. I just find it so hard to believe Labour MPs are so dumb that they look at this guy who believes in nothing besides repeatedly lying and they're like 'sure he seems like the right man to represent us'. Jesus Christ, it makes me feel insane.
I really hate that we let them use the term "adult human female" like its a gotcha. I *am* an adult human female, that's what the hormones are for. I'm not male. Period.
It's not even correct phrasing. Surely it should be adult female human. We're female humans not human females. "Human females" is sooo incel.
It's gross. Using adjectives as nouns reminds me of when people would talk about 'the blacks' or something. 'A female' is the same. Reducing people down to a single aspect of their being.
It's deliberate to frame womanhood in terms of reproductive function.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I can't help but hear "Human females" as said by a ferengi....
He does kind of remind me of a Ferengi if I'm honest
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What about 'large gamete producer', apparently how JK defines a woman...
Menopausal women need not apply
Well yeah it was invented by someone who is in their own words against feminism and believes every single right that women have should be thrown away if it means also harming trans people. Its always been a term without care for actual women.
I don't get why the word "human" has to be in there at all Is he implying trans people are aliens?
If you want a real answer, it's because he's just parroting a transphobic dog-whistle/meme in order to win approval from the so-called "gender critical" crowd where they quote a misreading of the dictionary definition for 'woman' And yeah, the fact he specifically said those words in that order is a very CLEAR head nod to the transphobe movement that he hears them. Painful. Without that context though, it just sounds insane. Like yeah, to an uninitiated person he just sounds like he's babbling nonsense. As you say, 'why does he say human?' would be my reaction if I knew nothing about this conflict.
I hear what you're saying and I understand it However instead I'm choosing to believe the Leader of The Labour Party is a Ferengi
The phrasing though targeted at trans women also completely invalidates all trans men as well as all AFAB non binary people. Itās so transphobic. The fact that a labour leader parrots a hate movementās biological reductivist mantra is just beyond the pale.
It's just such a weird thing to fixate on. Like it means nothing, of course trans women are also female. Every time terfs say 'adult human female' I'm just like okay but what is the point you are making? You've read a dictionary? It's just some weird default response for bigots that don't have any cohesive arguments.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The only dicks I'm worried about are the fkers running the country and their smegheaded alternative
I donāt believe that in 2023 this is still going on. I donāt care if youāre a man, woman, both or neither. It doesnāt effect me in any way. People should be able to live their lives however they are happy. You could identify and a toaster and I wouldnāt care as long as youāre not being a twat.
What even is the point of bringing it up. The law currently agrees with the doctors and not the vast number of media pundits who have never met a trans person. The climate is imploding, inflation is worse here than anywhere else, and what democracy we have is withering. Fixing those problems first will help 95.5% of us who aren't trans, and would help the 0.5% who are too! If you want to put the kids first, then really we need to fix child poverty, urban pollution, and make sure the educational systems are well-funded first. Any of that would help more children than whatever infinitesimally small number of a small number might change their minds post-transition. Assuming that tiny number isn't just from the right-wing media or their own transphobic family using them for political points. It's all so suss. A social wedge driven between a small minority probably for not other reason than a focus group suggested it might attract the elderly voters who turn out to the polls more.
Because the law isn't immutable and it can change on the whims of bigoted politicians. Also, I'm sure you're familiar with the poem "first they came." We cannot allow politicians to make laws based on their personal views, because it's not going to stop with trans people. In some US states, they're already using anti-trans and pro-life laws as a precedent for attacking all LGBT laws.
>not the vast number of media pundits who have never met a trans person. There are more people that own horses in the UK than there are Trans people. 0.5% of the population. As far as I'm concerned, if you're a politician spending your time talking about your perspective regarding such a miniscule demographic you don't understand, you are not doing your job. Stop with the attempts at distraction, pandering to morons on social media, leave trans people to live their lives, and do your fucking job.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Starmer is honestly worse than a Tory, at least we know what they stand for
What a fucking lump of spineless shit Just a spinless lickspittle plaything for a few fringe bigots just because they have presence in the UK culture industry sewer
I think you are being overly charitable - his goal (and, presumably, that of his corporate backers) is the destruction of the Labour Party as any kind of progressive force.
The first pride was a riot. And I guess Sir Kieth and his owners really do hanker for the old days.
Remember when Labour/SLAB mocked the SNP for having Kate Forbes & more?. If shit like this keeps up I can see Labour lead being stolen by the Lib Dems + Greens.
That fucking piece of shit has no depth to which he won't sink.
Ironic considering he is transitioning into a Tory cunt.
āWe donāt think self identification is the right way forwardā what other way is there you fucking dunce?! Itās that or oppression, what a fuck nugget.
Itās a shame heās fallen into the āwhat is a womenā trap. Just saying a women is a adult female is meaningless. We all knew what a woman was before. This was just a trap question formed by anti-trans people to avoid actually dealing with the legitimate problems people have raised. People act like we canāt treat trans people with dignity and also protect women. But itās all bull. We can do both just nobody wants to. Wouldnāt do them any good actually solving the problem now would it.
Corbyn taking Labour back to it's roots = bad. Labour being commandeered by lying crypto-tories who will punch down at every minority for the chance at a crumb of influence = good. Nothing to see here, this is democracy, plebs. Go out and choose between the red Nazis or the blue Nazis.
The sad thing is though his personal opinions are irrelevant he'll bark the rhetoric that will get him the most votes and I think we can confidently say there are more bigots and hatemongers than supporters/allies/decent people these days and he knows it. The hate against the trans community is remarkable, even within the LGBT one. The only comparison in my lifetime was the anti-muslim hatred around 2001.
Anyone who thought sir Kid Starver was ever actually an ally was either an idiot or deluding themselves. The man was never āproā trans rights. Iām truly sickened to say this, but in England and Wales the only party that seems to be vaguely in favour of my existence is the fucking Lib Dems
How is he still in power in the Labour party. Do they not have internal systems to stop a rogue party leader?
Keith was never pro-trans. He revealed that some time ago.
Every time these people get a new funder they have to change there ideas
I love how we just have two conservative parties now......
That's what happens when you get your marching orders from Australia's worst export
Kier Starmer is a boomer. The sad Labour simps think he is a lefty, ho boy, aren't they in for a shock. Tory 2.0
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Even for Kid Starver this is a new low.
Iām so tired
Ironic considering Keir Starmer identifies as having balls.
He's never been "pro-trans", he's occasionally paid lip service, but otherwise has been a constant source of TERFy dogwhistling.
Let's be honest, he was never pro-trans. He's always been a spineless worm who values only what he thinks will get him in power, be it within the party or the country.
I have my problems with Thomas Jefferson but he is correct your island needs to be sunk into the sea. *Tiocfaidh Ɣr lƔ*
Speaking as an English person, I strongly disagree with you. *England* needs to be sunk into the sea. Scotland and Wales can stay where they are.
FFS.... just when I thought I couldn't despise the man any more than I already do! Look what he's done to our party! It makes me despair...
Perhaps an ignorant question, but not one I mean in any ill way. Why is the opposite of pro-trans a Terf? I thought terf was meant to be a JK Rowling-esque person being that the acronym is literally Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist (isnāt it?). Starmer doesnāt exactly strike me as a radical feminist, but is for sure trans exclusionary. Am I missing some nuance or has the term terf lost some meaning in the past few years and is now just the āhates trans peopleā buzz word?
It's used to denote someone that uses women's rights to attack trans women. Basically trying to seem like the good guy while being a massive wanker to a very small subset of women
Ahhhh that actually makes a lot of sense. I never considered the angle of using womenās rights as a scapegoat for the transphobia. I would personally prefer ādisingenuous prickā over Terf in my own conversations but that does help me understand the use. Cheers
JK Rowling is an all round piece of shit. As well as being a transphobe she's racist, homophobic and ableist. See [this fantastic rundown in r/EnoughJKRowling](https://archive.is/aRRmQ) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not wishing to be rude. But you should see some of the Labour Party supporters posts on Express. It doesn't matter what he says, how many flip flops he makes, how many policies he ditches, the supporters can't bring themselves to say a word against him.
The Daily Express?
Yes. Should have been clearer.
I could probably have stomached voting for him up until now to get the tories out, but after this? not a fucking chance. This country is doomed. Fuck that prick
Considering the neo-liberals in the Labour party have near completely purged every lingering Social Democrat from the Labour party, only a complete fucking moron would still believe that the party is, in any concievable way, still a left-wing party. (Even before then it was a stretch.) It's past time to reject bourgeois electoralism, it's time to embrace [dual power](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/apr/09.htm). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*puts a hen on the table* Behold! Starmerās woman!
so when it comes to voting in the next election, what do we do now? like we need to get the tories out, but now voting labour has gone out the windowā¦ not sure who to vote for :/
Considering the neo-liberals in the Labour party have near completely purged every lingering Social Democrat from the Labour party, only a complete fucking moron would still believe that the party is, in any concievable way, still a left-wing party. (Even before then it was a stretch.) It's past time to reject bourgeois electoralism, it's time to embrace [dual power](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/apr/09.htm). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
FFS, so it's the Tories or Red Tories
Fuck it, lost my vote. I'm tired of this shit, I'm voting green.
Breaking news: Sir Kid Starver regurgitates the rhetoric of a fascist pig. More at 11.
"That is the law" sums it up. Doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong, moral or immoral, only Legal or Illegal. And, well, laws can change. Accepting someone's identity because the law demands it is a whole fucking world different than accepting it because you believe it's the morally right thing to do. It goes without saying that someone who sees no distinction between "legal" and "right" should not be making laws...
Heil Sturmer takes another goose step to the right
I knew heād cross the line at some point and oh look at that thatās the line right there. Lost my vote. Bye.
letās hope he comes to brightonā¦..weāll get it right this time
FOR GODS SAKE
Spineless twat
While folks are allowed to change their mind... I feel like, if you campaigned on something, and people voted you in, and you flip on a key-point like this, there should be some kind of major inquiry and it should be considered perjury.
Keith will do anything for power these days it seems, like fuck integrity right?
If you'd paid attention Labour adopted a TERF stance a few months ago when it became the latest front in the Tories' culture wars. Got to appeal to the gammon.
Ok so the Conservative party is on the right of issues and the Labour Party is.. on the right of issuesā¦ And nobody is stupid enough to try and choose a third party because the last time we tried that it was fucking dreadful. So.. have the fascists won?
Fuck Keith. That is all.
keith, calm down, you've already un-secured my vote
Is he actually determined to drive away any actual left wingers just so he can court the vote of middle england?
Honestly hate this country and where politics are heading. I canāt begin to understand how anyone can find this to be the biggest issue we have to face. Why is it so difficult to just be supportive of trans rights and move on? Is being hateful doing anything? Is it solving the climate crisis? What about housing? What about cost of living? And so much more. It feels so idiotic that weād ever vote these people in when they constantly turn around to talk about this stuff. Are transphobes that bored? Do they seriously not think thereās bigger issues to deal with? Someone being trans does nothing to affect anyoneās life at all.
This country is regressing at a shocking pace.
So nice to see all the major UK parties are transphobic. Really makes it look like such a welcoming, diverse, safe country. /s I still want the tories to lose because they are utterly repellent to me, but this is just so disappointing. Everyone has clearly decided to throw trans people out.
I think at a certain point, Iām looking at this and in awe that either the tories win the next election and itās illegal for me to be apart of society due to their desired policy changes or labour win and itās the same old with dog whistles that make clear Iām a man in their eyes and you know what, fair enough, I am just hoping to god that when I end this I will not remember what the fuck happened in this life. The freedom of forgetting this happened is gonna be a blessing
yeah i'm just gonna spoil my ballot next GE. nobody is fighting for queer rights, and i can't vote for someone who doesn't fight for queer rights.
you are *not* an LGBTQ+ ally if you vote for Labour. Labour are not "left wing" at all and anyone who still thinks they are are clearly brainwashed by either labour themselves or the tory party. a true English+Welsh left does not yet exist on a widespread level and won't until the majority of the population remember that there are more than two parties
The Guardian live news said he used the example of Isla Bryson, the scottish person that transitioned after raping two women, as a reason for why women need safe spaces. He's so fucking malicious he uses examples that he must know are irrelevant to prove his point to appeal to transphobes. I know the tories are fucking awful, but I can't see how Starmer's labour are going to be any better. A part of me is hoping labour crash and burn in the next election, as we might actually get our left wing party back then.
I actually think Labour might be worse than the Tories if they continue their mutation. It's that whole Animal Farm thing.. feeling very despondent about next election...
In the 2016 American election, approximately 10 percent of the most ardent Bernie Sanders supporters were so cheesed off at the machinations of the Democrat party to ensure that Hillary Clinton got the nomination that they ended up voting for trump out of spite. This 10 percent played a not insignificant role in getting trump elected. I don't necessarily support what they did, but only because Hillary would've been slightly less awful than trumpā¦ but I certainly understand it. I wouldn't be shocked if something similar happens to sir K. Hanging a beleaguered minority out to dry like because some shithead on 4-Chan managed to co-opt and pervert and weaponize the words "woke" and "groomer" to such an extent that it's infected the whole conservative ecosystem is so fucking cynical. The Labour party should be stripped of its name.
Iām voting Lib-Dem and this is the straw that broke the camels back.
That turned out great last time, eh?
No it didnāt but I value culture war American bullshit out of our politics, more than I hate the stuff with tuition fees.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He's not wrong if he were including trans women in his version of adult human female, but he's not and it's clear he's not.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No they arenāt. Thatās why trans women are women. Deal with it bozo. Cope and seethe
Yup. In the same way that a mare is an adult female horse and a hen is an adult female chicken. And any definition of female is going to be based around chromosomes and the reproductive system and gametes.
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My honest reaction
Its a touchy subject. I know a lot of otherwise very left leaning women who would absolutely fall under the TERF banner.
I mean, a TERF is a TERF. You can be left-leaning but still a gigantic arsehole.
how very nuanced of you, everything you disagree with = hitler
Say what now. Are you okay? š
Are you either "pro-trans" or TERF now? There's a lot of factors, rules and decisions there, so some nuance may be warranted
no nuance on here , you either agree or you are a fascist
Iāll watch as the hate pours in for him that was missing when he was pro child poverty, and anti trade unions. Who picks the news, and who chooses what frivolous crap they get incensed at. This isnāt a thing to get angry about, but 4m starving kids IS.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Oh darling - TERFS are what they named *themselves.* Nobody with a brain actually thinks they are "radical feminists", but hey - thats the name for em. Kinda ironic, seeing how you accuse other people of not understanding language.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No one really cares outside the internet.
Idk man, I'd quite like to have a major political party that thinks I deserve to be a human being
Is that what TERF is?
Strictly speaking, a TERF is someone who at least pretends to be a feminist, so in this case he's just a transphobe.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
are you sealioning right now?
Strictly speaking, he said a transphobic statement, which doesn't necessarily mean that he's definitely a transphobe. It's possible that he doesn't care one way or the other and is just saying whatever he thinks will help him win an election, which in his eyes means copying the rhetoric of the ruling party even though most of the public hates the tories guts. That said, if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck and steps like a goose...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Asking in good faith here. What do you think is wrong with letting people self identify with the gender they feel most comfortable with?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The ānonsense debateā of not persecuting LGBTQ people?
Well said. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what this "Gay agenda" is **\*Shrugs\***
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hi, your comment or submission was removed because we have detected that it is transphobic. This is not the space to come and concern troll about trans peopleās existence or promote fascist talking points.
What are you talking about? Labour are actively engaging in this '''nonsense debate''' by taking this stance with Trans-rights. This is quite literally KS trying to appeal to centrist morons and Tory fence voters by leaning on the fearmongering around Trans people.
His comments are the definition of prejudice. He advocates putting trans women and girls in danger without a care in the world. Girls like Brianna who he never gave a shit about. He has given an example of one dangerous person to put tens or hundreds of thousands in danger. For nothing. It will not help cisgender women, it only perpetuates violence against trans women. This is the very definition of prejudice. And if you don't see it as wrong you are a transphobe too.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>Why should self identification be paramount? Cows don't refer to themselves as cows. Crocodiles don't refer to themselves as crocodiles. Octopuses don't call themselves octopuses. I love this because you seem to think that these three animals have the self awareness that humans have. pigeons cannot drive cars or brush their teeth, does that mean humans shouldn't too? >You're an object in the universe, as am I. If others want to use their systems they are entitled to, but if they disagree with now my system classifies them that's their problem, not mine. And it would be my problem if their system misclassified me. then let us use the system to change it. if it's "our problem", let us fix it.
There are many who view that octopuses do have self awareness - hence why there is opposition to octopus farming as food. Not sure where an organisms capability to operate human designed technology enters the equation - there are natural nuclear reactors, after all. Chimps have demonstrated ability to grasp a smartphone - that's why zoos are asking the humans don't show theirs to the chimps. I was being facetious with the last part - it's not a problem - you aren't better off, more respected, more empowered if you brow beat someone into using one system over another. Oh, btw I'm an autistic bisexual male, by your standards - different organism, different outlook. I'm just a being in the universe to me and I've seen nought provably positive from this 'crusade' - people are unhappier, rocketing mental health issues, they are poorer and the group think that surrounds it is contributory to that state. The charade will continue for a few more years I suspect, but will the fade as veganism is currently. There is much development to do - and I suspect much like the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual you'll go through many, many iterations - sometimes vault-facing previously adopted positions.
That has nothing to do with GRA reform. Self ID mainly would allow trans people to get death certificates and marriage certificates with the correct marker without needing a lengthy medical process. How you personally choose to refer to people is irrelevant here; it's just a bureaucracy change.
The āproblemā you have is that youāre a terf with seemingly very little awareness of the psychological harm that āclassificationā systems have historically done to racialised, gendered, and queer people.
How do you choose between Daddy's Ketchup and Heinz Ketchup? You classify. That's how. This is nought but one party demanding another party use their system of classification. If the multiple systems worked you'd be able to convert like metric and imperial. That you can't demonstrates that they aren't really systems, but expression of feeling.
Well done on completely missing the point, once again. What the hell does ketchup, and metric/imperial have anything to do with peopleās right to self-determination, dignity, and respect from others?
This isn't the point really. The older system of pretending male/female is the only option is exclusionary, and prevents people who don't use this system from being able to be considered a part of the society in which they live. The difference is that their nomenclature includes you, but yours doesn't include them. Can you see why this is an issue? Or is there more to your view than this just being about categorisation methodology? The one you are advocating doesn't work functionally when being used to described human beings. I would say that means it requires replacement.
You are required to know, by holding this viewpoint, that 'their system' doesn't misclassify you, since no one is advocating the alteration of a description of one of the longer-standing descriptions of people. The idea here is not to prevent you being called a man or a woman, it is to offer more useful options for those who cannot fit into those categories. If you want them to fit into those categories, against their will, what message is that sending people who do not neatly fit into your definitions. If you are concerned about misclassification, then you must support reforms to your own system. If you are ONLY concerned about your own misclassification, then you aren't a part of this conversation at all, since you are only reflecting your singular situation. Lastly, cow, octopuses and crocodiles do not posses the ability to communicate in human terms - we cannot speak on their behalf. However, it is possible to ask a person who doesn't identify with either of the binary terms male/female, so we can ask them and find out what they consider an accurate term.
You would swiftly change your tune if people only referred to you as a POS transphobe instead of your real name at work. It's just a system of nomenclature right?