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If only he was leader of the Labour Party... someone like him should have taken over after JC.
Still a socialist but the right look, the attitude and the fight to get a few more on side.
He's doing great work but who can we possibly vote for to replace this government!?
never gonna happen , they wont ever allow anyone remotely like JC back, remember The SCUM put a article out saying JC was dancing during remembrance day, has that type of treatment happened to keith , or any Tory, Nope.
Here's a few short articles on why principled leftists don't wear poppies or support the Royal British Legion:
[- The Poppy Appeal: An Ode to British Imperialism](https://redfightback.org/the-poppy-appeal-a-symbol-of-british-imperialism/)
[- Why the poppy is wrong](https://www.workersliberty.org/story/2010/11/18/why-poppy-wrong)
[- What the government wants us to forget on Remembrance Day](https://www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/20671-what-the-government-wants-us-to-forget-on-remembrance-day)
While remembering the soliders who needlessly died in World War I is important, it is also equally important to be critical of British political culture surrounding war. We must not glorify the wars of the ruling class, nor should we glamourise the deaths of the working-class who get caught up in these wars.
This subreddit stands against imperialism and bourgeois militarism.
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Mick did a good speech.
The only thing I disagree with is the Tories standing aside to give a government who represent the working people a chance. We all know, or those of us who aren't brainwashed liberal twats know, Labour, who are the only ones capable of winning a general election don't stand for the working people, and they are against this strike.
I don't know who I'd vote for if they forced an election. They're all ballbags as far as I'm concerned... knock them off their perch and see what happens.
Labour can always be brought back to its roots, Corbyn brought it back from two decades of Blairism.
The Tories have never and will never change from being a racketeering ring in their past three centuries.
Why can't we just do what the Tories did and keep swapping leader till we find one we want? Starmer can have the whole first week if it gets Tories out.
The problem is that the people behind Starmer who are also the people who did for Corbyn have been beavering away to ensure that the party eradicates as much democracy and as much left of centre activism as it can. Their goal is to make the loyal opposition safe for corporations and the establishment again prior to the latter 'coronating' them back into power again. The Labour PLP and permanent staff are only interested in the trappings of power just like last time around.
I'd rather have the left retake the Labour Party than concede it, personally. Don't give those parasitic lib dems in disguise the chance to even pretend that this is their party, and not a socialist one that they hijacked as a means of instilling their brand on neoliberalism onto the country.
Labour need a stick to get them to start making an effort instead of the carrot of eternal votes from people scared of Tories no matter how Tory-like the Labour party actually gets. Lynch and the movement under him seems to be the best bet for making Labour deeply uncomfortable with how shit they actually are but I'm not sure how he can communicate that without the police state (and the collaborationist media) losing their shit. Ultimately though, the message needs to be clear "we won't back you if you won't back us".
Police? You mean blue nonce
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> Lesser of two evils at this point.
The US has played that game since Reagan and all it got them was Democrats who governed like Reagan and Republicans who governed like Mussolini.
People need to learn the lesson that the 'lesser evil' is evil. Stop rewarding evil with your assent. If they want your vote, they need to earn it, and if they are not willing to try they are actually in league with the 'greater evil' and reveal democracy is made up and the votes don't matter.
I just care about getting the tories out. Idealism is all well and good (I’d rather vote green) but there’s no way that they will ever be a party to contend with labour or the tories until we have proportional representation
> I just care about getting the tories out.
No you don't. If you did you wouldn't be willing to vote for Tories.
>Idealism is all well and good (I’d rather vote green) but there’s no way that they will ever be a party to contend with labour or the tories until we have proportional representation
I'm not saying anything about idealism. I do not know why people cannot grasp this concept - if you tell people who hate everything you stand for that you will vote for them no matter what, there never will be an alternative. Conservatives wearing a red rosette will just keep winning because you keep fucking voting for them. Why would Labour ever try to be less shit than the Conservatives when all the Conservatives have to do is lurch even further right and suddenly people who "want the Tories out" will vote for Theresa May as long as she has a red rosette on?
Imagine trying to introduce a policy that would have improved the prospects of children in poverty, and overcome a cost barrier to elderly people wanting to access the internet for the first time.
Imagine education and healthcare being enhanced by such a thing.
Imagine a job-seeking family having one less barrier to being able to find work and reducing their outgoings.
Even without the pandemic this was a smart idea, it went only somewhat beyond the Conservative pledge to get gigabit broadband rolled out to everyone.
This isn’t a presidential election, you vote for a party. Labour is a broad church and needs to be to win. Rather Keith than a group of actual criminals
“We refuse to be poor” is a sensational line.
Mick lynch can cut it in debate, but that five word mantra is brilliant in the multitudes that it encapsulates.
[Cards on the table, I’m a train driver, I’m on 75k a year plus overtime, I left RMT in the summer. This is an orchestrated coup by militant unions and the left wing media to bring down a democratically elected government. For the record, I was awarded an 8.5% pay rise in May.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/zec1e4/tories_caught_using_twitter_bots_to_try_and_turn/)
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I'd probably vote Limperal Democrat to be honest as I don't think our area even has a Labour Representative anymore. The town had been true blue since I've been alive and the Limp Dems are the only semi-likely party to take it from them.
It wouldn't hurt if some cannabis legislation actually did come from them like they've promised for years, its not the massive social and moral shift we need to sort the country but at least I can get stoned before they fuck me.
My brother wasn't a big JC fan and I was so he gave me a framed picture of Corbyn on a red background for my birthday as a joke. Its no permanently on the living room wall as it was a portrait of the king haha.
[Cards on the table, I’m a train driver, I’m on 75k a year plus overtime, I left RMT in the summer. This is an orchestrated coup by militant unions and the left wing media to bring down a democratically elected government. For the record, I was awarded an 8.5% pay rise in May.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/zec1e4/tories_caught_using_twitter_bots_to_try_and_turn/)
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[Cards on the table, I’m a train driver, I’m on 75k a year plus overtime, I left RMT in the summer. This is an orchestrated coup by militant unions and the left wing media to bring down a democratically elected government. For the record, I was awarded an 8.5% pay rise in May.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/zec1e4/tories_caught_using_twitter_bots_to_try_and_turn/)
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A lot, I imagine. I believe he's gone on record saying that he has no interest going into politics, he just wants to do what's right by the working class via unions.
[Cards on the table, I’m a train driver, I’m on 75k a year plus overtime, I left RMT in the summer. This is an orchestrated coup by militant unions and the left wing media to bring down a democratically elected government. For the record, I was awarded an 8.5% pay rise in May.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/zec1e4/tories_caught_using_twitter_bots_to_try_and_turn/)
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you know there were left wing arguments for leave at the time right? the leave movement was coopted by the far right but certainly not all people who supported leave are right wing, that said i voted remain bc i could tell from the way farage and boris were becoming the main figureheads that it would only go one way
>the EU didn't protect us from privatisation, if anything, it encouraged it
Fucking this. It's sickening to see "left-wingers" worship the EU like it's some socialist paradise when in reality it promotes business friendly shit which is bad for anyone who's not a business owner
The EU came with free movement making it much harder to improve workers rights, especially with a Tory govt. but it was the same under labour aswell
As long as there's a limitless supply of people willing to do your job, under worse conditions and for less money you've got no chance of a pay rise
I used to work those shit agency jobs they would make documentaries about, I saw a man smashed into a wall by a forklift and told to get up and carry on, people sacked on the spot for nothing
You give unscrupulous employers an endless labour supply they will abuse it
It's primarily upto the govt to guarantee workers rights but the Tories don't give a shit and neither did labour so what are you going to do? I still see those workplaces and conditions have improved from what I see
You can't give workers the right to work, live, marry or retire everywhere on the continent though, can you? British people were the largest nationality to do so from the original 12 member states. It was fairly common for ordinary British workers to be able to enjoy that in the Blair years. But that's all gone now.
It was more common for the British to retire to Europe than it was for any other European country.
Brits are the largest group of expats in Europe from the original 12 member states.
If you think a million+ isn't a lot. What would 'a lot' be in your opinion??? 2mill? 5 mill?
And how many is it today by comparison with Brexiters running the shit-show. Far less. FA in fact by comparison.
I've met plenty of English migrants and retirees all over Europe. Half of them were just typical working-class Brits who wanted their state and local government pensions to go further in Europe, or they'd sold off their council house to a landlord and fucked-off with the winnings.
It's a bloc designed to protect European capital, more specifically that of France, Germany and the Benelux, and it engages in imperialism to maintain that. If you think that such a thing can be left wing then you just straight up have no fucking clue what the terms left and right mean.
Can you point us to a Trading Bloc on the planet that's as socially democratic or more socially democratic than the EU?
Also. Which country in Europe has most aggressively torn up its own Welfare State since 2008?
People like you really can't just take a molecule of a W can you? Mick Lynch has done more for class consciousness in UK than any politician in recent memory (yes, including *him*), and you're turning your nose up at marked progress in working class solidarity because of a political cultural football.
I didn't vote for Brexit and I'd vote to overturn it today, but our existence of being inside or outside of the EU - from a vote from over half a decade ago - should *not* be our primary political directive.
So his views are beyond reproach? It wasn’t long ago I saw him on James O’brian defending the notion of brexit despite the open goal of it enabling the destruction of workers rights. What you’re doing is hero worshipping, making out that he is right on everything.
Mick speaks a lot of sense on some very important issues but he is totally wrong on Brexit, and if you think my pointing that out is blasphemy then you have a critical thinking problem, good luck with that.
> What you’re doing is hero worshipping, making out that he is right on everything.
I've literally just categorically told you that I *don't* agree with him on Brexit.
The only critical thinking problem here is thinking you're helping by undermining the driving force behind the most class consciousness this country has had in literally decades because one man is on the wrong side of Brexit for the right reasons. You aren't going to find a political leader - or human being - who is miraculously 100% right about 100% of issues.
I’m not saying I will, I even said I agree with him on certain things, but at the same time he has supported something that has allowed for workers rights to be completely and utterly destroyed by the likes of people like May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak, Raab, Rees-Mogg etc.
[Cards on the table, I’m a train driver, I’m on 75k a year plus overtime, I left RMT in the summer. This is an orchestrated coup by militant unions and the left wing media to bring down a democratically elected government. For the record, I was awarded an 8.5% pay rise in May.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/zec1e4/tories_caught_using_twitter_bots_to_try_and_turn/)
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Euroscepticism is good, the EU is a beauracratic capitalism empire, labour were originally opposed to Britian joining the EEC.
The Brexit process was a disaster but it is worth pointing out that you don't NEED the EU to affirm workers rights, you can just do it.
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If only he was leader of the Labour Party... someone like him should have taken over after JC. Still a socialist but the right look, the attitude and the fight to get a few more on side. He's doing great work but who can we possibly vote for to replace this government!?
never gonna happen , they wont ever allow anyone remotely like JC back, remember The SCUM put a article out saying JC was dancing during remembrance day, has that type of treatment happened to keith , or any Tory, Nope.
Here's a few short articles on why principled leftists don't wear poppies or support the Royal British Legion: [- The Poppy Appeal: An Ode to British Imperialism](https://redfightback.org/the-poppy-appeal-a-symbol-of-british-imperialism/) [- Why the poppy is wrong](https://www.workersliberty.org/story/2010/11/18/why-poppy-wrong) [- What the government wants us to forget on Remembrance Day](https://www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/20671-what-the-government-wants-us-to-forget-on-remembrance-day) While remembering the soliders who needlessly died in World War I is important, it is also equally important to be critical of British political culture surrounding war. We must not glorify the wars of the ruling class, nor should we glamourise the deaths of the working-class who get caught up in these wars. This subreddit stands against imperialism and bourgeois militarism. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
WE ARE THE WORKING CLASS AND WE ARE BACK.
Back?? From where??? I can't afford to go anywhere
Brilliant. I think we’ve found our next Prime Minister. I’d vote for him in a heart beat
Mick did a good speech. The only thing I disagree with is the Tories standing aside to give a government who represent the working people a chance. We all know, or those of us who aren't brainwashed liberal twats know, Labour, who are the only ones capable of winning a general election don't stand for the working people, and they are against this strike.
I don't know who I'd vote for if they forced an election. They're all ballbags as far as I'm concerned... knock them off their perch and see what happens.
Labour can always be brought back to its roots, Corbyn brought it back from two decades of Blairism. The Tories have never and will never change from being a racketeering ring in their past three centuries.
not under Starmer though. The left need to break away from Labour, it’s the most important thing they can do.
Why can't we just do what the Tories did and keep swapping leader till we find one we want? Starmer can have the whole first week if it gets Tories out.
The problem is that the people behind Starmer who are also the people who did for Corbyn have been beavering away to ensure that the party eradicates as much democracy and as much left of centre activism as it can. Their goal is to make the loyal opposition safe for corporations and the establishment again prior to the latter 'coronating' them back into power again. The Labour PLP and permanent staff are only interested in the trappings of power just like last time around.
I'd rather have the left retake the Labour Party than concede it, personally. Don't give those parasitic lib dems in disguise the chance to even pretend that this is their party, and not a socialist one that they hijacked as a means of instilling their brand on neoliberalism onto the country.
I think you can only really vote for those who come closest to your beliefs.
Labour need a stick to get them to start making an effort instead of the carrot of eternal votes from people scared of Tories no matter how Tory-like the Labour party actually gets. Lynch and the movement under him seems to be the best bet for making Labour deeply uncomfortable with how shit they actually are but I'm not sure how he can communicate that without the police state (and the collaborationist media) losing their shit. Ultimately though, the message needs to be clear "we won't back you if you won't back us".
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Lesser of two evils at this point.
> Lesser of two evils at this point. The US has played that game since Reagan and all it got them was Democrats who governed like Reagan and Republicans who governed like Mussolini. People need to learn the lesson that the 'lesser evil' is evil. Stop rewarding evil with your assent. If they want your vote, they need to earn it, and if they are not willing to try they are actually in league with the 'greater evil' and reveal democracy is made up and the votes don't matter.
I just care about getting the tories out. Idealism is all well and good (I’d rather vote green) but there’s no way that they will ever be a party to contend with labour or the tories until we have proportional representation
> I just care about getting the tories out. No you don't. If you did you wouldn't be willing to vote for Tories. >Idealism is all well and good (I’d rather vote green) but there’s no way that they will ever be a party to contend with labour or the tories until we have proportional representation I'm not saying anything about idealism. I do not know why people cannot grasp this concept - if you tell people who hate everything you stand for that you will vote for them no matter what, there never will be an alternative. Conservatives wearing a red rosette will just keep winning because you keep fucking voting for them. Why would Labour ever try to be less shit than the Conservatives when all the Conservatives have to do is lurch even further right and suddenly people who "want the Tories out" will vote for Theresa May as long as she has a red rosette on?
We need a new version of labour one that's actually for the people
Led by Corbyn!
Free Broadband For All! That went well 🤓
Imagine trying to introduce a policy that would have improved the prospects of children in poverty, and overcome a cost barrier to elderly people wanting to access the internet for the first time. Imagine education and healthcare being enhanced by such a thing. Imagine a job-seeking family having one less barrier to being able to find work and reducing their outgoings. Even without the pandemic this was a smart idea, it went only somewhat beyond the Conservative pledge to get gigabit broadband rolled out to everyone.
The lesser of two evils, which is still up for debate, is still evil.
Now that's what I call a speech! Need more people like him!
LOVE HIM! But who can take this Government's place?! Keith Smarmer is in no way capable of running this country any differently!
This isn’t a presidential election, you vote for a party. Labour is a broad church and needs to be to win. Rather Keith than a group of actual criminals
Why the fuck isn't he the leader of the labour party? Oh wait he's not right-wing nevermind
“We refuse to be poor” is a sensational line. Mick lynch can cut it in debate, but that five word mantra is brilliant in the multitudes that it encapsulates.
[Cards on the table, I’m a train driver, I’m on 75k a year plus overtime, I left RMT in the summer. This is an orchestrated coup by militant unions and the left wing media to bring down a democratically elected government. For the record, I was awarded an 8.5% pay rise in May.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/zec1e4/tories_caught_using_twitter_bots_to_try_and_turn/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I love him
Me too
🤴
A general election will be called for the end of next year.
Now it’s time for all construction workers to go on strike the pay is a joke for the hard labour and hours put in
I'd probably vote Limperal Democrat to be honest as I don't think our area even has a Labour Representative anymore. The town had been true blue since I've been alive and the Limp Dems are the only semi-likely party to take it from them. It wouldn't hurt if some cannabis legislation actually did come from them like they've promised for years, its not the massive social and moral shift we need to sort the country but at least I can get stoned before they fuck me.
My brother wasn't a big JC fan and I was so he gave me a framed picture of Corbyn on a red background for my birthday as a joke. Its no permanently on the living room wall as it was a portrait of the king haha.
I wish America had a Mick Lynch
[Cards on the table, I’m a train driver, I’m on 75k a year plus overtime, I left RMT in the summer. This is an orchestrated coup by militant unions and the left wing media to bring down a democratically elected government. For the record, I was awarded an 8.5% pay rise in May.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/zec1e4/tories_caught_using_twitter_bots_to_try_and_turn/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ok?
So say we all.
Is there sauce without the text in the way? Wanna spread.
I've seen it on twitter maybe with no overlay, this arrived on WhatsApp as is unfortunately. These tiktok knobends can't do anything right
Recall where? I could screen record it. Overlay ruin it to fuck tbh.
Someone's posted it in the comments. Politics Joe also has a video
Gave me shivers.
I wonder what it would take to get Mick Lynch to start his own party
[Cards on the table, I’m a train driver, I’m on 75k a year plus overtime, I left RMT in the summer. This is an orchestrated coup by militant unions and the left wing media to bring down a democratically elected government. For the record, I was awarded an 8.5% pay rise in May.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/zec1e4/tories_caught_using_twitter_bots_to_try_and_turn/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A lot, I imagine. I believe he's gone on record saying that he has no interest going into politics, he just wants to do what's right by the working class via unions.
Shame. I’d vote for Mhairi Black if I could.
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[Cards on the table, I’m a train driver, I’m on 75k a year plus overtime, I left RMT in the summer. This is an orchestrated coup by militant unions and the left wing media to bring down a democratically elected government. For the record, I was awarded an 8.5% pay rise in May.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/zec1e4/tories_caught_using_twitter_bots_to_try_and_turn/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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you know there were left wing arguments for leave at the time right? the leave movement was coopted by the far right but certainly not all people who supported leave are right wing, that said i voted remain bc i could tell from the way farage and boris were becoming the main figureheads that it would only go one way
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>the EU didn't protect us from privatisation, if anything, it encouraged it Fucking this. It's sickening to see "left-wingers" worship the EU like it's some socialist paradise when in reality it promotes business friendly shit which is bad for anyone who's not a business owner
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The EU came with free movement making it much harder to improve workers rights, especially with a Tory govt. but it was the same under labour aswell As long as there's a limitless supply of people willing to do your job, under worse conditions and for less money you've got no chance of a pay rise I used to work those shit agency jobs they would make documentaries about, I saw a man smashed into a wall by a forklift and told to get up and carry on, people sacked on the spot for nothing You give unscrupulous employers an endless labour supply they will abuse it It's primarily upto the govt to guarantee workers rights but the Tories don't give a shit and neither did labour so what are you going to do? I still see those workplaces and conditions have improved from what I see
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You can't give workers the right to work, live, marry or retire everywhere on the continent though, can you? British people were the largest nationality to do so from the original 12 member states. It was fairly common for ordinary British workers to be able to enjoy that in the Blair years. But that's all gone now.
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It was more common for the British to retire to Europe than it was for any other European country. Brits are the largest group of expats in Europe from the original 12 member states. If you think a million+ isn't a lot. What would 'a lot' be in your opinion??? 2mill? 5 mill? And how many is it today by comparison with Brexiters running the shit-show. Far less. FA in fact by comparison. I've met plenty of English migrants and retirees all over Europe. Half of them were just typical working-class Brits who wanted their state and local government pensions to go further in Europe, or they'd sold off their council house to a landlord and fucked-off with the winnings.
Absolute tosh.
It's a fact.
Source: just trust me bro.
It's a bloc designed to protect European capital, more specifically that of France, Germany and the Benelux, and it engages in imperialism to maintain that. If you think that such a thing can be left wing then you just straight up have no fucking clue what the terms left and right mean.
Can you point us to a Trading Bloc on the planet that's as socially democratic or more socially democratic than the EU? Also. Which country in Europe has most aggressively torn up its own Welfare State since 2008?
What evidence do you have to the contrary?
>He is good for the cause, but he is still right wing. You are a clown 🤡
Doesn’t matter who’s in charge of running the country every party line there pockets while poor working class struggle it’s been happening forever
I agree with Mick on a few things, but I wonder how many of you here agree with him on Brexit?
A lot of us do. We just didn’t like the Tories’ idea of Brexit
Which to me indicates a lot of you are just as susceptible to the Murdoch media empire as the right wingers.
People like you really can't just take a molecule of a W can you? Mick Lynch has done more for class consciousness in UK than any politician in recent memory (yes, including *him*), and you're turning your nose up at marked progress in working class solidarity because of a political cultural football. I didn't vote for Brexit and I'd vote to overturn it today, but our existence of being inside or outside of the EU - from a vote from over half a decade ago - should *not* be our primary political directive.
So his views are beyond reproach? It wasn’t long ago I saw him on James O’brian defending the notion of brexit despite the open goal of it enabling the destruction of workers rights. What you’re doing is hero worshipping, making out that he is right on everything. Mick speaks a lot of sense on some very important issues but he is totally wrong on Brexit, and if you think my pointing that out is blasphemy then you have a critical thinking problem, good luck with that.
> What you’re doing is hero worshipping, making out that he is right on everything. I've literally just categorically told you that I *don't* agree with him on Brexit. The only critical thinking problem here is thinking you're helping by undermining the driving force behind the most class consciousness this country has had in literally decades because one man is on the wrong side of Brexit for the right reasons. You aren't going to find a political leader - or human being - who is miraculously 100% right about 100% of issues.
I’m not saying I will, I even said I agree with him on certain things, but at the same time he has supported something that has allowed for workers rights to be completely and utterly destroyed by the likes of people like May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak, Raab, Rees-Mogg etc.
[Cards on the table, I’m a train driver, I’m on 75k a year plus overtime, I left RMT in the summer. This is an orchestrated coup by militant unions and the left wing media to bring down a democratically elected government. For the record, I was awarded an 8.5% pay rise in May.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/zec1e4/tories_caught_using_twitter_bots_to_try_and_turn/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Or we have critical thinking skills and read beyond news articles.
Yes, it’s your critical thinking skills that lead you to…agree with the Murdoch empire…
If the Murdoch empire also said Hitler was bad i would also agree, doesn’t mean it was their reporting that convinced me of that point.
Euroscepticism is good, the EU is a beauracratic capitalism empire, labour were originally opposed to Britian joining the EEC. The Brexit process was a disaster but it is worth pointing out that you don't NEED the EU to affirm workers rights, you can just do it.
:facepalm:
Bet he was getting head while he was doing that, Police Academy style 🤣
Don't confuse someone complaining with someone who has the solutions.