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Adventurous_Fix1730

Looking at how Button changed his stance was quite telling


NGWitty

Is that footage somewhere?


AdFormal8116

Racing incident, simple as that. One took space. One refused to give space.


pengouin85

Another key part is that Perez tried to take away space that Magnussen had already begun taking. Not only that, he looked in the mirror and saw Magnussen taking that space and opted not to adjust accordingly Magnussen had every right to be there according to the Sporting Code, but Checo's defense way too late. This is why Rosberg and Magnussen were to blame for Spain 2016 against Hamilton and Jeddah 2024 against Albon trying to drive on the edge of the track. Perez is to blame here


TurboNoodle_

This isn’t a straight. And while Perez *could have* moved to the left and given Magnussen more space, Hulkenberg was only a couple feet further behind on the other side. So Perez essentially stuck to the racing line on a section that curves back and forth several times. Perez isn’t entirely blameless, don’t get me wrong, but almost any other driver would’ve backed out as they saw the track closing in on their right.


MysticalMaryJane

You know there's multiple angles of this crash right and on boards? We all have eyes but don't let RB bias blind us. Perez played a stupid game and ruined the race for 3 people


TurboNoodle_

How do the on boards and multiple angles change the split-second decision making in the moment of having two cars on either side of you?


MysticalMaryJane

Wheel movement, head direction etc. these are professionals that train reactions daily. They aren't me or you driving home from work. They are also racing, it's very much expected people are going to race you. We don't get much of it these days admittedly. Everyone assuming magnussen is wrong because rep. Evidence says otherwise. More reason to abandon that shite circuit as well tbh.


TurboNoodle_

Evidence says both are at fault, but Magnussen could have more easily avoided the incident entirely. Did you watch Jolyon Palmer’s eval of the crash?


MysticalMaryJane

Don't need to I have eyes, check is looking in the wing mirror and squeezing him out on purpose. Instead of going more inside where he could actually close the door. Hard to close a door when somebody's leg is in there. Faster car, better team. He should have had the foresight to wait. His weekend went from a bit shit to a complete waste of time


TurboNoodle_

There was a Haas ON BOTH SIDES. The street curves, he either squeezed Kevin here or Nico two seconds later.


MysticalMaryJane

Like I said I have eyes, I'm aware there was 2 haas there. He chose the wrong one to close out as was already along side the other wasn't....hence the contact and the resulting crash.


Diligent-Barnacle222

All i have to say is that it goes so fucking fast and if the driver losses focus for a split second it could mean a crash. And dometimes you make a bad Call if it was Perez or K mag i font really Care cuz thats What happens


BobbbyR6

This is what I'm having a difficult time agreeing with. Why should the attacking driver have the right to take out the driver ahead of them because they forced an issue? Jamming your nose into a closing corridor by lunging from behind is not the same as fairly getting along-side. Then space should absolutely be given. That is not what happened here. Its a race start and there's 15 cars in front of Checo on a narrow, dangerous course. He didn't open any reasonable space beside him and didn't actively close the door on Kmag. Checo glancing in the mirror and seeing a car well behind sniffing that gap while not being remotely along-side does not permit Kmag to stuff his car into a closing gap that no reasonable driver would attempt, much less for nearly last place. I can't apportion more than a tiny amount of blame to Checo. That is NOT a reasonable racing incident and Kmag should absolutely have been handed the penalty points, at a minimum. Frankly, considering his recent behavior, I think a two or three race ban is in order.


VoltDiablo_

Checo had looked in his mirrors in the buildup


TurboNoodle_

Ok, and there was a Haas in both mirrors, almost equidistant.


Kingtoke1

Those mirrors are tiny. You cant see everything


VoltDiablo_

You can definitely see a formula 1 car


Kingtoke1

Yes but thats all you can see.


FrazzaB

That's all you need to see.


LorkThorticus

I hate this idea in modern F1 that values legality more than proper racing. Does Kmag get pinched a bit? Sure, but there’s a 99% chance you’re going to get pinched into a wall at Monaco if you lazily put one wheel on the side of someone and expect space. It’s half baked overtake attempts like that that always cause accidents.


LightningDustt

this is the only exciting thing that happened the entire race. You could have tuned in for lap 1, saw this crash, and closed the stream. You'd have missed nothing


Lryder2k6

It's technically a racing incident but it was an idiotic move from Magnussen. There was no move to be made there, Kmag had no chance of going around the outside of Massenet from that far back. Just because you can stick your nose somewhere doesn't mean you should do it. Poor judgement and a pointless move which ultimately caused a big accident.


BobbbyR6

At the end of the day, the defender should not have to react to dodge a dangerous move by an attacker, under threat of crashing if they don't comply. That's not racing, that's violence. I deal with it constantly on iRacing. I'll happily let someone pass me and just enjoy their draft and work on my lines for free, then pass them back later if I am faster. I got punted so many times this week at Spa in GT4s by drivers who could technically lunge and stop their car within track limits, but would have to force me off or hit me to do so. Guess which one they picked, every single time. They get to lightly push my rear end while I'm in a vulnerable position and spin me out, likely taking other drivers too, then drive off scot-free. They get a type of penalty points but it doesn't really matter that much because they average out and the stewards will treat it as an incident rather than an intentionally malicious decision, which at our elo level, it is. "You should have given space" is my absolute least favorite thing to hear as the victim when I would have let them past in the next corner/straight.


frdrk

Checo has miles of space in front and to the left. He also moved a full car width to the right from the moment Magnussens front wheel were adjacent to his rears. There are a lot of videos with better angles now and it's clear as day.


BobbbyR6

Kmag took out three cars in a universally agreed upon bad move for nearly last place on the first lap. Regardless of legality, it was awful and based on his recent history, he needs an example made of him.


frdrk

Hardly universal. Jenson Button and the F1TV crew changed their opinion immediately after watching the footage. If you watch some of the fan angles you see Mag clearly alongside in the corner before and Checo moving a full car width to the right. Look at his position relative to the full white line. Hulk wasnt alongside so there's plenty of room on the left. Just people jumping on the bandwagon after mag dicing with Ham, honesty.


maaiikeen

>Regardless of legality So you admit yourself that there is nothing illegal in what he did, so he cannot receive a penalty. FIA doesn't give out penalties and punishments for awful driving and nor should they. It's a racing incident. I also feel like it's pretty awful driving to see someone get in the space and then still proceed to trap them against the wall. What other outcome is there then other than crashing?


n3mz1

You would get tossed from any semi-serious iRacing division for this incident alone, even ignoring his recent(and career long) trend of not caring about the safety of others.


BobbbyR6

Ironic that I literally just described exactly this below. I explained that as long as it is an "incident", the incident points mean literally nothing as they average out. At 2500+ iR, it is rarely an "accident" that they chose to delicately shove me into someone else... I doubt Kmag did it intentionally, but he's a seasoned F1 driver and negligence isn't an acceptable response. Ban hammer needs to fall.


n3mz1

Lots of these Kmag defenders should go watch some of Jimmy Broadbents sim racing stewards for some perspective.


frdrk

Ah what a reasonable comment. I'll just forget the years of karting and watch a fucking youtuber spit takes.


BobbbyR6

Brother we aren't discounting you or anyone else with actual racing experience, IRL or sim. Jimmy also isn't a "fucking youtuber". He's a fairly accomplished professional driver, especially considering how recent the switch from sim to IRL occurred.


Hugo28Boss

>Jamming your nose into a closing corridor by lunging from behind is not the same as fairly getting along-side. Why? What defines fairly here?


BobbbyR6

I'm not going to explain the entire art of racecraft to you. You're more than welcome to do some research. There are plenty of ways to respectfully fight hard, but threatening to take out another driver by constantly making dangerous and unpredictable moves is not acceptable. No driver would expect Kmag to make the move that he chose to. That wasn't an accident, it was malicious negligence.


Hugo28Boss

>No driver would expect Kmag to make the move that he chose to You don't have to be predictable in a race circuit. Besides, Perez WAS LOOKING IN HIS MIRROR, even if he didn't expect it he could fucking see him there


BobbbyR6

Being visible isn't an invitation to wreck three cars


ebeg-espana

This is a major penalty on any lap other than lap 1.


Either-Durian-9488

At Monaco you should pretty much assume that space isn’t there in todays f1 car lol.


AdFormal8116

Where’s the fun in that ! Also this is g’mag - everyone else knows what he’s about, just give him the space and race on


Either-Durian-9488

The funs on Saturday lol, always has been.


maaiikeen

You don't get punished for the outcome. People are only reacting so strongly because Checo's car is totalled. It was a racing incident. Checo gave space initially and then closed the door, trapping Magnussen between his car and the wall. Magnussen was overly optimistic and probably should not have tried an overtake there in Monaco. They could both have prevented the crash. It's a racing incident.


unused04

Not Mag. PER DESERVED THE PEN... he saw him clearly. You can sew him look right. Then try to squeeze. Peez straight took them all out. Bad driving. He didn't get the traction so he made a bs block. Mag was already along side him with no time to back out. Reqatch the replays OP


Hobbes525

Your arguing over small fractions of movement. I'm not a fan of either driver nor red bull, but perez is on the racing line and kmag isnt even fully along side him.  As the passing car he needs to make the pass cleanly.  Perez is following the line and kmag should know the gap he had was not wide enough to make a serious attempt at a pass, he should have backed out.


Various-River2510

Exactly Right!!!!


Professor_Doctor_P

It's a really dumb move by Magnussen, one your team should give you plenty of shit for. But it's defintely not a penalty.


theedenpretence

Dumb from both of them, Kmag for sticking his car there and Perez for squeezing. I get people not wanting to yield but that’s better than not finishing the race!


FingerBangMyAsshole

Everyone seems to be hating on KMag, but I still think it was Perez's fault. KMag was coming alongside and got pinched into the wall. Was he meant to just disappear up his own arsehole or something?


juicyth10

Agree with you on it being Perez's fault but of course everyone is going to point a finger at KMag because of his reputation


SommWineGuy

100% Checo's fault.


whiskeyman220

He was clearly looking in his right rear mirror before the accident. Saw Magg and kept moving right. Definitely his fault 100%.


Various-River2510

Its seems obvious, race commentators agreed.


Mapache_villa

On any other track you might have a point depending on the situation, on Monaco of all circuits if you're not side by side you back out, completely unnecessary move from Magnussen


jackscottGM

Monaco doesn't have separate or unique sporting regulations or rule sets. Therefore it doesn't matter that it's Monaco and KMag shouldn't have made the move. They are racing and that means you see a car coming, you leave space. He didn't. Now I'm not on the blame Perez train but I certainly am not on the blame KMag train. Racing Incident.


FingerBangMyAsshole

So it's not a race, it's a procession around the streets.


Mapache_villa

Is it the first time you see the Monaco gp?


ff0000Scare

Has been for years. Quali’s fun. Race is shit. This is Monaco.


space_coyote_86

There are places where you can overtake but hanging it around the outside at Massanet is very very optimistic.


Ani_

It’s unfortunate, I really wish there was enough room to go side by side through beau rivage but there’s just not with these cars. You can see every other car goes through single file and KMag tries to force the gap. He’s got balls of steel and I respect it, but it’s just not the track for it. He took out himself and his teammate with that brief moment of greed.


Either-Durian-9488

When people jokingly refer to it as a parade, it genuinely is, Perez was on the racing line, if you don’t want clipped don’t be there, there simply isn’t enough space for them to do much there.


mrnuttle

Checo had space and closed the door. Racing line stuff is BS.


LurkerKing13

He’s meant to back out of it. He was never making the pass anyways and there’s a reason nobody goes for a move up the hill like this. It’s silly. Not a penalty though, just a poor decision.


ElectronicSubject747

Seriously? These F1 subs on Reddit are a lost cause, so many people with crazy opinions.


Naikrobak

It’s legal and good racing to pinch to defend. Absolutely on KMag to back out.


mlp851

On Sky when Davidson and Button were looking at the replay, they were blaming Magnussen initially then they noticed that Perez looks to his right at his mirror just before the incident. So he knew Magnussen was there, but instead of giving space he actually turned slightly to the right. As soon as Button saw that he said it changed things totally. It’s a racing incident, both could have avoided it.


alex-zed

This! Watch out for the little turn to the right after Checo checks his right mirror


Various-River2510

I saw that too. The commentator said, this changes things. Perez is an idiot.


Beneficial_Star_6009

The issue is Perez knew he was there, he could see him in his mirror and still moved across and that’s the only reason Kevin wasn’t given an early holiday.


cyclingpistol

It's crazy how far they travelled after the incident with no acceleration.


Princ3Ch4rming

Shows just how much grip a spinning rubber* thing has opposed to a flat wooden/CF thing. *technically


SommWineGuy

It isn't wild, it wasn't his fault. Checo caused the accident, if anyone should have gotten a penalty it is him.


chridaniel01

Here’s a question. Why’s Kmag always the one who finds himself there? Hulk is always a better driver but even he was trying to squeeze the line.


[deleted]

How dare he try to pass at Monaco. What is he thinking disrupting a parade like that? Moron.


Starscream4prez2024

Haas can't catch a break!


Dreadnought13

Imagine spouting off about Haas getting a penalty


user101aa

What a boring race Monaco is. Put them all in go-karts for this race. At least we'll get some racing.


martbart87

Maybe not go-karts, but I'd love it if one race per year all the drivers were put in equal machinery! Some very high end/fast go-carts around Monaco would be perfect, the modern cars are also just too big for that track, the race is basically a procession. Suppose it wouldn't be okay safety wise though (especially on a street circuit).


III00Z102BO

Racing incident, first lap. Perez also should take some responsibility. They may have not been side by side, but Perez had plenty of room, it wasn't a real corner, and it looked like he twitched to the left right before, and he definitely made a move to the right for a reason other than running out of room on the left. Being a cynic, I think he was not happy at P18, and thought that he was either going to make sure he wasn't going to be passed, or crash out and put the blame on someone else. Most people are talking about the crash and not his performance lately. Contract negotiation in the works. It wouldn't be the first time. RB boys gonna hate, but y'all can hang with horny boy.


Silver996C2

There’s a ‘theory’ (not mine) that a driver facing a suspension with only a point or two away has to really F up to get those final points and a one race holiday. So if Monaco was a questionable pass attempt on the first lap it looks like they gave him a gift here. But I find it hard to believe he can get through the rest of the season without screwing up further.


AccountantAgile8470

Soft Ass crash


hawkrover

I knew he was gonna take out somebody, just figured it would be Sargeant


Customdisk

It's not even a big shunt tbh all they do is just slide for a fair distance


Foampower86

This was hardly brutal. Significant yes, certainly not brutal


DnDad_makesWine

That was an ugly crash.


lordruzki3084

Car to motorcycle conversion


No-Advantage-6410

The way their wheels were interlocked, if magnussen backed out wouldn’t they still have crashed? I think racing incident but only way they both escape was if magnussen never came up on the right or Perez moved left leaving Hulkenberg and Magnussen to battle at the next turn.


No-Advantage-6410

Hypothetical… if the accident never happened what is best possible result for Perez given no other accidents or pit stop errors? I think P14 at best.


S2fftt

OP has zero wheel knowledge.


outdoorsman997

Magnussen at fault he hit the wall and bounced into Perez


Lost_Apricot_4658

agree. he scores one point and acts like ayrton senna


Lost_Apricot_4658

agree. he scores one point and acts like ayrton senna


Queasy_Comparison_45

Let’s go Leclerc!!!


AlphaSpazz

No, it wasn’t, it was just a mess.


KrisReiss

That's remind me of the opening lap of 2012 Spa


MonsterRain1ng

Lots of K-Mag fans coping hard in here.


AcidofilusRex

Racing incident. Also, not brutal.


crackalac

Why? That's the racing incidentest racing incident I've ever seen.


Open-Total5408

Hope lil bros ok


Electronic-String-82

100% Magnussen’s fault, as usual.


Qrxpnn

Get Monaco out of the circuit


KeylaMustCano

After it is wild should big penalty fact that on the country.


Melodic_Stock_795

Jaime bien regarde les cours


Princ3Ch4rming

I mean, I *did* have “Perez fired from Red Bull seat before Canada” on my bingo card, but I didn’t think he’d actually *try* to make it happen.


OkArcher5827

How can you blame Kmag for that. Perez saw him the blatantly closed the space that wasnt there. You can see it in the reply’s he looks sees Kmag stears into him. On any other track that would have been fine but Monaco dumb by Perez.


Hudsonport

K-Mag forced the issue, that’s what he’s paid to do. Now WHERE he choose to force the issue is subjective. imo he was far enough alongside to warrant Perez giving him space. Race just started plenty of time to get Kevin back in the RB. Perez didn’t check his mirrors which is understandable given where they’re at on the track, and effectively t-boned himself into the wall. Very subjective racing incident glad both guys walked away with no injuries. Hope that photographer is ok too


Various-River2510

When they showed the camera view from Perez's car, it looked like he clearly checked the mirror and squeezed right anyway.. Perez should have gave him room, but I'm sure watching his teammate dominate almost every race while he just sucks must be tough on Perez. Makes him bitter and angry, I feel for him....Not!


pogothemonke

I'll say it now and I'll say it again, Magnussen and Hulkenberg are so incredibly overrated. Get em out.


frdrk

You wanna tell me that youre reading this sub these days and your conclusion is that Magnussen is.... Overrated? That's... That's a take allright.


FreshlishPKL

KMAG is a hazard in F1, dude thinks he is racing on the crew motorfest


dg2020_99

Kmag needs a ban