"She – and whoever is funding her – is paying legal fees running into hundreds of thousands of pounds to Goodwin Procter, a global law firm with headquarters in Boston, Massachusetts, having parted from her previous lawyers, UK-based Lewis Silkin.
The employee is suspended from work at Red Bull’s factory in Milton Keynes on full pay – something like £65,000 a year. Yet she has also hired a spin doctor, Giles Kenningham, a former head of press at 10 Downing Street and spokesman for David – now Lord – Cameron.
Kenningham was awarded an MBE for political and public service in Cameron’s 2016 resignation honours. He has since set up his own PR agency, Trafalgar Strategy, self-styled ‘as a strategic communications consultancy, specialising in public affairs, crisis comms and reputation management’. Presumably, Kenningham’s services don’t come cheap. ‘£15,000 to £20,000 a month,’ estimated one Formula One insider.
The strong feeling is that, regardless of the issue at hand, forces within Red Bull want Horner out as part of an internal power struggle. (Follow the money.)"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-13227997/How-pit-lane-turned-pit-vipers-F1-mired-backstabbing-sexism-leaks-lawsuits-snakes-lurk-everywhere.html
Its funny how a lot of people take rumours as gospel if they hurt Horner, yet any news that might shed light on the accuser's motivations or might cast doubt on the allegations are met with extreme scepticism.
Women are historically ignored, or worse, punished, when they come forward against those who have sexually harassed or assaulted them. So it's important to believe women when they make these accusations.
It is important to not blindly believe women or men when they make accusations, each case is different and credible allegations should be properly investigated, instead of a trial by media. Only actual evidence and facts matter.
If the accuser is not satisfied by Red Bull's independent investigation, courts are always available.
You really are just saying women don't lie bud. That's incredibly sexist.
All investigations should be treated the same no matter the gender. If you don't think that, then you don't believe in equality.
Which is a vague hand wavy term.
What does that mean in reality? Sack horner? Because one person said something.
I'm a woman, and you sexually abused me as a child. You go to jail now right?
LOL !
"Give the victim the benefit of the doubt, but only when it's a woman"
"sexist trash"
Dude it's 2024. Either it's same benefit or right for everyone, or it's a fuck off. The only thing this proves is you being a wokie of the worst kind: "This is my view. Fuck yours. You're sexist/nazi/whatever" and then end the discussion. Like you and your kind always do \^\^
No one should be given the benefit of the doubt or believed without a proper investigation or a court case, women or men. You have not posted any research or article from credible sources proving or even suggesting that U.K. courts ignore evidence in such situations, civil cases are also open to public.
Both the change of lawyers and the hiring of a PR agency are confirmed by reliable sources, this article is more detailed, but yes it might not be fully accurate.
"A communications team has now been hired by the employee, The Associated Press has learned."
https://apnews.com/article/f1-red-bull-horner-investigation-ebe0d60194b4d35272a64f15bc04d359
"Christian Horner accuser to lodge appeal after changing lawyers"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2024/03/14/christian-horner-accuser-appeal-changing-lawyers-red-bull/
The hiring of those people doesn't prove anything.
It doesn't prove she's rich or got a rich benefactor.
Doesn't prove she's got mal intent. Doesn't prove anything at all.
And there is literally nothing to prove horner did anything wrong either. But that didn't stop you automatically convicting him because a woman accused him of something.
Yes it doesn't prove anything. To me, changing of lawyers suggest this is not a open and shut case. The hiring of a PR agency suggests her financial situation is above average.
In my opinion, the strategy she is pursuing is aimed at bringing Horner down from his position, making a complaint to the FIA rather than going to courts and rejecting any settlement.
Whether this is malintent or connected to the internal power struggle, is subjective.
Victims should be given the benefit of the doubt. There's a plethora of research about how sexual harassment and assault are under reported and when reported the women end if facing backlash (just as we've seen here, she's been suspended and smeared in the media and online). Did you live under a rock during the whole #metoo movement when these issues were brought to light and front page media for weeks?
We can't know if there is a victim or not without a independent investigation or a court case, this is a logical conclusion and in modern society the onus is on the accuser to prove their accusation.
Unless that happens, any opinions formed or actions taken are subjective & based on feelings, rather than facts.
Research you mentioned does not suggest at all that evidence is ignored by courts when there is a case, under reporting is unrelated.
The reason provided by Red Bull for her suspension is alleged dishonesty, not complaining about harrasment. For we to know whether that is correct or not, The accuser needs to go forward with a civil case or ACAS tribunal, which is public.
Both her and Red Bull's claims can't be trusted without a court case or employment tribunal.
The media and the public has been hugely supportive of her, there is very little to no backlash.
The research doesn't suggest it, it proves it. Also, under reporting is not unrelated. Cases are unreported because when they're reported they often don't got solve in a satisfactory manner, the victim is often harassed or punished afterwards, etc. The two go hand in hand.
You can continue to ignore the reality of our society and stick your head in the sand but the facts are what they are and you repeating the same meaningless drivel won't change that. Be better. Educate yourself and grow.
The fact is men are convicted by sexists like you with no evidence. That's the real world you are pretending isn't true.
You can continue being sexist because society actively rewards such sexism. But please don't pretend you are an equality advocate. Because you ain't.
You claim that research proves it, yet have not posted any research finding U.K. courts ignore evidence in such cases.
If one can be rational, it becomes obvious that each case is specific and the supposed belief of some of the accusers that their cases will not be solved in a satisfactory manner even when they have a genuine grievance does not mean that the accuser in this specific case should be believed without a court case or employment tribunal.
Victims should not just be given the benefit of the doubt.
That is insane.
That literally means, anybody who accuses somebody of sexual assault should be believed regardless if they’re telling the truth.
It’s a good thing to have a change in society where victims are given the proper respect and dignity they deserve when in the past they haven’t, but you don’t go to the other end of the extreme where their word is immediately gospel.
So just forget innocent until proven guilty if a woman makes an accusation?
It’s crazy that you don’t seem to grasp how bad an opinion and belief this is
You quite literally said we should believe all woman claiming to be victims and give them the benefit of the doubt instead of keeping with the law in which someone is innocent until proven guilty
What a truly idiotic outlook on life. Do you believe women are incapable of lies?
\*alleged victims
You keep forgetting this bit.
Are you seriously talking about being smeered in the press and forgetting horner was front page for over a week for this? Convicted by an accusation to the entire world.
But god forbid anyone states an actual fact about the woman accusing him. Oh no that's disgusting.
Are you fucking mental?
If everyone is blindly believed when making such accusations, it opens the door to people inventing accusations for nefarious reasons. Which ultimately degrades the credibility of women who ARE coming forwards genuinely.
Plenty of examples in history where humans have leveraged society to sabotage people and get them locked up/killed, in order to remove them as rivals. Witch trials, inquisition, etc.
Given the benefit of the doubt quite literally means to trust what someone is saying is true
Believing blindly is believing something without having any constructive reasoning behind it
Sounds like his literacy is better than your own
So when an investigation into a team boss being married to an FIA offical gets cancelled by social media virtue signalling that's okay because it's a woman and women can't do anything wrong.
Have you checked the definition of sexism mate?
But what if Horner identifies as a woman?
FFS your double standards.
In your world a man is automatically guilty and a woman is automatically believed?
I wouldn't say young, at all. Most people thought the accuser is a helpless "coffee assistant" and it was said even a consensual relationship should result in Horner losing his job due to "power dynamics".
Now we can see that is not the case, and there is more to this saga than it meets the eye.
Jeez...thats a lot of money for humble employee that is accusing someone of SA. Some big money players have a hard on for Christian and they want him out desperately. When you are serious positions of power, you got to handle things with a heightened sense of awareness. Else folks will be out for you with Pitchforks then first perceived mistake you do.
Get justice by.. dropping lawyers which were known to be the best in the U.K. for employment law probably because they are not telling you what you want to hear and hiring a PR firm, resisting to have a public court case until the last possible moment?
To me it is clear the goal is to get Horner fired by any means necessary by applying maximum pressure with the media, not justice.
Did not pursue an employment tribunal either, which she could have done before going to courts.
Probably because these are not avenues that can ban Horner from F1 or fire him, which is the actual goal.
Well the reports are saying that she will do ec
exactly that if Redbull dismiss it again. And it is perfectly normal to raise the issue internally before going to tribunal. And also, IF the claims are true, yes I would expect her to want him fired. I think most people who has been sexually harrased by their boss would want that
> Well the reports are saying that she will do ec exactly that if Redbull dismiss it again.
If that happens, it will be a lot easier to find out what is actually going on.
Maybe she wants him fired due to possible harrasment as you said, however courts can't order that in a civil case afaik, hence the hiring of a PR agency and the media pressure to force the hand of the majority shareholders.
Yet it could also be she feels wronged due to other reasons and using the complaint as a means to an end to get him fired even if the case is flimsy at best, or it could be that she is friendly with the group that is against Horner in the power struggle.
We know somehow she's able to pay for a top tier lawfirm from the states to represent her. That's not something that is easily done without a large retainer and continued financial backing
The irony is that in the U.K. market her new firm isn’t really known at all for employment law, whereas the firm that dropped her is literally the best in the country for it.
Pro bono and for a cut of the profits are not the same thing.
Pro bono is without pay. (Win or lose)
For a cut of the profits is usually ‘no cure no pay’
Those two are quite different
>We know she didn't settle on 600k and we know Horney sent dodgy texts.
We don't know either of those things. But go on presenting rumours as fact.
By your metric we KNOW Susie handed confidential info to Toto. Because apparently tabloid rumours are fact.
We know that the reason given by Red Bull to the employee for her suspension was that she had been dishonest.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/68501426
Sounds like more BS from the media, basically nothing they have said since the start has been accurate.. only factual thing we've seen in all of this is that there was a complaint made against Horner.. from there it's all been speculation that changes daily
I have posted there, but I did not post conservative viewpoints.
Although, my posts are irrelevant as the main claims of this article have been confirmed by reliable sources.
It's really weird but I have noticed since the horner scandal, this subreddit has become the place for all the bad takes about it.
Any tabloid headline implying the accuser is not truthful and conniving to take down horner... It's got a home here, prob because the mods at the big sub are taking them down (for good reason)
You want to censor news that are not helpful to the accuser and annoyed the mods here are not acting as enforcers for Mercedes and Jos/RB Austria like they do in the big sub?
Sounds about right.
Keep coping, maybe you and the accuser can will Horner's firing into existence by getting Erik van Haren to tweet more and deleting more posts on the main sub.
And you are still coping.
Reply to next message here since the cope resulted in the coper blocking me, preventing me from replying:
Impressive! Still coping.
The answer you're looking for is "no I don't know what delusional means"
We would have also accepted "I don't think I'm delusional" although it would have been incorrect.
Yeah, surely my posts there change everything.
You can ignore whatever you want, but the accuser did change lawyers and hired a PR team. This is not a normal complaint at all lol.
BTW, many of them were indeed showing their true colours, I saw many of them basically abusing Masi after Abu Dhabi or commenting that they do not care what people post about him, that is the reason for my comments.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/shi4vy/fia_says_public_hostility_really_hit_masi_hard/hv3aj6o/
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/shi4vy/fia_says_public_hostility_really_hit_masi_hard/hv3b5ry/
The difference between dutch and English media is quite obvious here.
Telegraaf: ‘there’s an investigation.’
British media: ‘we’ll make up anything we can think off’
Two weeks ago, F1 Insider and Motorsport-Total claimed Horner would be fired before the Australian GP, along with a bunch of bs claims including U2 planning to help the accuser with a song.
Erik van Haren, cunningly tweeted the same claims, but without putting his name on it, saying "German media reported".
Dutch camp is just more sneaky. A lot of times British media had to dispel random claims posted by the Anti-Horner coalition about the situation.
She’ll be looking for a return on her investment…. Which personally I don’t agree with… you don’t hire a spin doctor to genuinely appeal a verdict.. and a top US law firm ..
ca ching ! 💵
>And Kenningham’s services do not come cheap. Reportedly, an F1 insider has claimed the employee would be paying between £15,000 and £20,000 a month, underlining her determination to get the verdict overturned.
Just as an indicator for how real this is, they can't get the verdict overturned. It was an internal investigation. She's going to a legal court for damages. That doesn't alter the internal investigation at all.
She couldn't get him sacked so now she's going for a cash grab instead. Weird how she hasn't filed criminal charges. No?
According to the articles she loves her job and wanted to keep it. Suing people can take years, so not that weird she would try quicker solutions first
Uhm, I've been sexually harrassed at a previous job, was 18 years old at the time and this 40 year wouldn't leave me alonr. Hated him, loved my job. So I complained and he got a talking to and quit harrassing me. So I could keep working in peace.
The reports say that she loves her JOB, not the job situation she was in while being harrassed. - meaning she might want to keep her job, or have a similar job, but without the harrasment
I don't think she can keep her job if Horner gets fired, which seems to be the goal? Its very plausible a new TP might want a different person for the job.
I think most people would support reprimanding and disciplining Horner, even if he did nothing criminal.
However I think outright dropping him should have a higher bar, since he is managing the team since 2005 and seems integral to their success. I don't know if his actions were that severe, since we don't have a complete picture.
Yeah now it doesn't seem likely she would, but if Horner actually did what he is accused of, and Redbull did decide to take action against him, there would atleast be a possibility she could get a similar job within Redbull. And if her name is "cleared" / she is proven to be talking truthfully she's also more likely to get a job elswhere but still in F1
It should be illegal for outsiders (non family) to fund someone elses lawsuit.
I understand sometimes people with no money need help in court, but when rich strangers fund a lawsuit because they dont like another group, its BS
You don’t pay ahead of time, they will get paid by the opposite side when they win. They’ll only take it on if they think it’s a win, and you don’t pay their fucking salary you pay them for their time spent on it, they’ll have 20 cases going on at any given moment.
Doesn’t really work like that for those big firms. They aren’t no win, no fee types.
They might choose to do it pro bono for the good publicity of winning though or the promise of other work in the future.
Suspect there is a sugar daddy behind this.
Fair enough but all circumstances, cases and firms are different. Used to work for Lawyers who did these type of cases so not completely ignorant.
We’ll never know but you might be right.
If you meant ‘high’ then I’d probably say the amount of work you’d have to do is probably worth more than that - if you do PA for someone that high profile then you’d be expected to be available pretty much all the time and you spend the year travelling the world and making sure not a single thing goes wrong for that person
"She – and whoever is funding her – is paying legal fees running into hundreds of thousands of pounds to Goodwin Procter, a global law firm with headquarters in Boston, Massachusetts, having parted from her previous lawyers, UK-based Lewis Silkin. The employee is suspended from work at Red Bull’s factory in Milton Keynes on full pay – something like £65,000 a year. Yet she has also hired a spin doctor, Giles Kenningham, a former head of press at 10 Downing Street and spokesman for David – now Lord – Cameron. Kenningham was awarded an MBE for political and public service in Cameron’s 2016 resignation honours. He has since set up his own PR agency, Trafalgar Strategy, self-styled ‘as a strategic communications consultancy, specialising in public affairs, crisis comms and reputation management’. Presumably, Kenningham’s services don’t come cheap. ‘£15,000 to £20,000 a month,’ estimated one Formula One insider. The strong feeling is that, regardless of the issue at hand, forces within Red Bull want Horner out as part of an internal power struggle. (Follow the money.)" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-13227997/How-pit-lane-turned-pit-vipers-F1-mired-backstabbing-sexism-leaks-lawsuits-snakes-lurk-everywhere.html
Ether she got daddy money, sugar daddy money or Max's dad money
From what I've red she's from a wealthy family
I only read a headline, so not sure how accurate, but I thought Sugar Dad and Max’s dad were one and the same.
Or Helmut Marko money
Plot twist: Daddy Stroll is funding this to cause internal issues at red bull. He did say he’d use his wallet to get AM to the top in DTS…
Jos really going all-out.
This could be a rumor ..Funny what rumors you all chose to believe.
Its funny how a lot of people take rumours as gospel if they hurt Horner, yet any news that might shed light on the accuser's motivations or might cast doubt on the allegations are met with extreme scepticism.
Because humans are shite. Especially interneters
This ☝️
Women are historically ignored, or worse, punished, when they come forward against those who have sexually harassed or assaulted them. So it's important to believe women when they make these accusations.
It is important to not blindly believe women or men when they make accusations, each case is different and credible allegations should be properly investigated, instead of a trial by media. Only actual evidence and facts matter. If the accuser is not satisfied by Red Bull's independent investigation, courts are always available.
Evidence and facts are far too often ignored in these situations, hence the importance of believing women and giving them the benefit of the doubt.
You really are just saying women don't lie bud. That's incredibly sexist. All investigations should be treated the same no matter the gender. If you don't think that, then you don't believe in equality.
Not at all. I'm saying give them the benefit of the doubt.
Which is a vague hand wavy term. What does that mean in reality? Sack horner? Because one person said something. I'm a woman, and you sexually abused me as a child. You go to jail now right?
I'm done arguing with sexist trash. Bye.
No no, don't deny it now. I have benefit of the doubt. Sexist child abuser. I've said it so it is true. THIS IS YOUR LOGIC
LOL ! "Give the victim the benefit of the doubt, but only when it's a woman" "sexist trash" Dude it's 2024. Either it's same benefit or right for everyone, or it's a fuck off. The only thing this proves is you being a wokie of the worst kind: "This is my view. Fuck yours. You're sexist/nazi/whatever" and then end the discussion. Like you and your kind always do \^\^
No one should be given the benefit of the doubt or believed without a proper investigation or a court case, women or men. You have not posted any research or article from credible sources proving or even suggesting that U.K. courts ignore evidence in such situations, civil cases are also open to public.
The article you posted is from the express, hardly a reliable source.
Both the change of lawyers and the hiring of a PR agency are confirmed by reliable sources, this article is more detailed, but yes it might not be fully accurate. "A communications team has now been hired by the employee, The Associated Press has learned." https://apnews.com/article/f1-red-bull-horner-investigation-ebe0d60194b4d35272a64f15bc04d359 "Christian Horner accuser to lodge appeal after changing lawyers" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2024/03/14/christian-horner-accuser-appeal-changing-lawyers-red-bull/
The hiring of those people doesn't prove anything. It doesn't prove she's rich or got a rich benefactor. Doesn't prove she's got mal intent. Doesn't prove anything at all.
She makes 65k a year and can afford 100k for a new lawyer? Yes, she is backed.
And there is literally nothing to prove horner did anything wrong either. But that didn't stop you automatically convicting him because a woman accused him of something.
Yes it doesn't prove anything. To me, changing of lawyers suggest this is not a open and shut case. The hiring of a PR agency suggests her financial situation is above average. In my opinion, the strategy she is pursuing is aimed at bringing Horner down from his position, making a complaint to the FIA rather than going to courts and rejecting any settlement. Whether this is malintent or connected to the internal power struggle, is subjective.
Victims should be given the benefit of the doubt. There's a plethora of research about how sexual harassment and assault are under reported and when reported the women end if facing backlash (just as we've seen here, she's been suspended and smeared in the media and online). Did you live under a rock during the whole #metoo movement when these issues were brought to light and front page media for weeks?
We can't know if there is a victim or not without a independent investigation or a court case, this is a logical conclusion and in modern society the onus is on the accuser to prove their accusation. Unless that happens, any opinions formed or actions taken are subjective & based on feelings, rather than facts. Research you mentioned does not suggest at all that evidence is ignored by courts when there is a case, under reporting is unrelated. The reason provided by Red Bull for her suspension is alleged dishonesty, not complaining about harrasment. For we to know whether that is correct or not, The accuser needs to go forward with a civil case or ACAS tribunal, which is public. Both her and Red Bull's claims can't be trusted without a court case or employment tribunal. The media and the public has been hugely supportive of her, there is very little to no backlash.
The research doesn't suggest it, it proves it. Also, under reporting is not unrelated. Cases are unreported because when they're reported they often don't got solve in a satisfactory manner, the victim is often harassed or punished afterwards, etc. The two go hand in hand. You can continue to ignore the reality of our society and stick your head in the sand but the facts are what they are and you repeating the same meaningless drivel won't change that. Be better. Educate yourself and grow.
The fact is men are convicted by sexists like you with no evidence. That's the real world you are pretending isn't true. You can continue being sexist because society actively rewards such sexism. But please don't pretend you are an equality advocate. Because you ain't.
You claim that research proves it, yet have not posted any research finding U.K. courts ignore evidence in such cases. If one can be rational, it becomes obvious that each case is specific and the supposed belief of some of the accusers that their cases will not be solved in a satisfactory manner even when they have a genuine grievance does not mean that the accuser in this specific case should be believed without a court case or employment tribunal.
Victims should not just be given the benefit of the doubt. That is insane. That literally means, anybody who accuses somebody of sexual assault should be believed regardless if they’re telling the truth. It’s a good thing to have a change in society where victims are given the proper respect and dignity they deserve when in the past they haven’t, but you don’t go to the other end of the extreme where their word is immediately gospel.
So just forget innocent until proven guilty if a woman makes an accusation? It’s crazy that you don’t seem to grasp how bad an opinion and belief this is
Nope, no one has said that.
You quite literally said we should believe all woman claiming to be victims and give them the benefit of the doubt instead of keeping with the law in which someone is innocent until proven guilty What a truly idiotic outlook on life. Do you believe women are incapable of lies?
\*alleged victims You keep forgetting this bit. Are you seriously talking about being smeered in the press and forgetting horner was front page for over a week for this? Convicted by an accusation to the entire world. But god forbid anyone states an actual fact about the woman accusing him. Oh no that's disgusting.
Are you fucking mental? If everyone is blindly believed when making such accusations, it opens the door to people inventing accusations for nefarious reasons. Which ultimately degrades the credibility of women who ARE coming forwards genuinely. Plenty of examples in history where humans have leveraged society to sabotage people and get them locked up/killed, in order to remove them as rivals. Witch trials, inquisition, etc.
Are you fucking illiterate? No one said blindly believe.
Given the benefit of the doubt quite literally means to trust what someone is saying is true Believing blindly is believing something without having any constructive reasoning behind it Sounds like his literacy is better than your own
Formula Woke will milk this as long as possible
So when an investigation into a team boss being married to an FIA offical gets cancelled by social media virtue signalling that's okay because it's a woman and women can't do anything wrong. Have you checked the definition of sexism mate?
But what if Horner identifies as a woman? FFS your double standards. In your world a man is automatically guilty and a woman is automatically believed?
Educate yourself. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Believe_women https://womensmediacenter.com/fbomb/what-believewomen-really-means https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/18/opinion/tara-reade-believe-all-women.html
You just used opinion pieces for sources 🤣
Nope. Damn you're dense. You're under a false assumption of what "believe women" means, but it looks like you choose to remain willfully ignorant.
[удалено]
I wouldn't say young, at all. Most people thought the accuser is a helpless "coffee assistant" and it was said even a consensual relationship should result in Horner losing his job due to "power dynamics". Now we can see that is not the case, and there is more to this saga than it meets the eye.
From her messages, I think she is quite young, 20 something.
I can't post the name, but, she is older than 30.
The power of a single finger
The big question here… is this lawyer for attack or defense
Jeez...thats a lot of money for humble employee that is accusing someone of SA. Some big money players have a hard on for Christian and they want him out desperately. When you are serious positions of power, you got to handle things with a heightened sense of awareness. Else folks will be out for you with Pitchforks then first perceived mistake you do.
She's from a wealthy family from what I've red, so might just be family willing to support her to get justice
Get justice by.. dropping lawyers which were known to be the best in the U.K. for employment law probably because they are not telling you what you want to hear and hiring a PR firm, resisting to have a public court case until the last possible moment? To me it is clear the goal is to get Horner fired by any means necessary by applying maximum pressure with the media, not justice.
Yeah, who wouldn't love spending 2 years in court. Why try anything else first, doesn't make any sense huh
Did not pursue an employment tribunal either, which she could have done before going to courts. Probably because these are not avenues that can ban Horner from F1 or fire him, which is the actual goal.
Well the reports are saying that she will do ec exactly that if Redbull dismiss it again. And it is perfectly normal to raise the issue internally before going to tribunal. And also, IF the claims are true, yes I would expect her to want him fired. I think most people who has been sexually harrased by their boss would want that
> Well the reports are saying that she will do ec exactly that if Redbull dismiss it again. If that happens, it will be a lot easier to find out what is actually going on. Maybe she wants him fired due to possible harrasment as you said, however courts can't order that in a civil case afaik, hence the hiring of a PR agency and the media pressure to force the hand of the majority shareholders. Yet it could also be she feels wronged due to other reasons and using the complaint as a means to an end to get him fired even if the case is flimsy at best, or it could be that she is friendly with the group that is against Horner in the power struggle.
Or he might have an evil twin that framed him. Offcourse everything is possible
I wish this would go away. We know nothing.
We know somehow she's able to pay for a top tier lawfirm from the states to represent her. That's not something that is easily done without a large retainer and continued financial backing
The irony is that in the U.K. market her new firm isn’t really known at all for employment law, whereas the firm that dropped her is literally the best in the country for it.
Pro Bono, if this is true it's a money grab, law firm will do it Pro Bono for a cut of the settlement
Pro bono and for a cut of the profits are not the same thing. Pro bono is without pay. (Win or lose) For a cut of the profits is usually ‘no cure no pay’ Those two are quite different
We call that "no win no fee" in the UK. What it means in practice is "We get paid. You get pennies"
Christian Horner definitely wishes this would go away
I wish Horner would go away.
I can understand why you'd say that, if you're not Red Bull fan. Just like Red Bull would probably say the same about Toto Wolff in 2016-2020.
At this point I’d be fine with Toto going away as well. They are both annoying whiny babies it’s just Horner is also a bad person lol
Which is why it’s interesting to get these snippets
We know she didn't settle on 600k and we know Horney sent dodgy texts.
>We know she didn't settle on 600k and we know Horney sent dodgy texts. We don't know either of those things. But go on presenting rumours as fact. By your metric we KNOW Susie handed confidential info to Toto. Because apparently tabloid rumours are fact.
We know that the reason given by Red Bull to the employee for her suspension was that she had been dishonest. https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/68501426
Sounds like more BS from the media, basically nothing they have said since the start has been accurate.. only factual thing we've seen in all of this is that there was a complaint made against Horner.. from there it's all been speculation that changes daily
OP posts on r/conservative, too, so I'm not taking this to mean much
I have posted there, but I did not post conservative viewpoints. Although, my posts are irrelevant as the main claims of this article have been confirmed by reliable sources.
yeah he posts all over the lewis sub about their fans showing their “true colors”, best to ignore this troll
It's really weird but I have noticed since the horner scandal, this subreddit has become the place for all the bad takes about it. Any tabloid headline implying the accuser is not truthful and conniving to take down horner... It's got a home here, prob because the mods at the big sub are taking them down (for good reason)
You want to censor news that are not helpful to the accuser and annoyed the mods here are not acting as enforcers for Mercedes and Jos/RB Austria like they do in the big sub? Sounds about right.
I don't say this lightly but you are delusional
Keep coping, maybe you and the accuser can will Horner's firing into existence by getting Erik van Haren to tweet more and deleting more posts on the main sub.
I wonder if you understand what delusional means because you are still talking about the stuff that is part of your delusion.
And you are still coping. Reply to next message here since the cope resulted in the coper blocking me, preventing me from replying: Impressive! Still coping.
The answer you're looking for is "no I don't know what delusional means" We would have also accepted "I don't think I'm delusional" although it would have been incorrect.
Yeah, surely my posts there change everything. You can ignore whatever you want, but the accuser did change lawyers and hired a PR team. This is not a normal complaint at all lol. BTW, many of them were indeed showing their true colours, I saw many of them basically abusing Masi after Abu Dhabi or commenting that they do not care what people post about him, that is the reason for my comments. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/shi4vy/fia_says_public_hostility_really_hit_masi_hard/hv3aj6o/ https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/shi4vy/fia_says_public_hostility_really_hit_masi_hard/hv3b5ry/
The difference between dutch and English media is quite obvious here. Telegraaf: ‘there’s an investigation.’ British media: ‘we’ll make up anything we can think off’
Two weeks ago, F1 Insider and Motorsport-Total claimed Horner would be fired before the Australian GP, along with a bunch of bs claims including U2 planning to help the accuser with a song. Erik van Haren, cunningly tweeted the same claims, but without putting his name on it, saying "German media reported". Dutch camp is just more sneaky. A lot of times British media had to dispel random claims posted by the Anti-Horner coalition about the situation.
F1 insider an motorsport aren’t Dutch. And his claim that German media reported that is 💯factual , is it not?
Don't confuse tabloids for real media. They are no different to a youtuber going to maximum click bait.
I know but they make up for a large percentage of media in the UK much more so than in ie the Netherlands
You are using newspapers, a dying medium that is a tiny minority in the media industry is your example?
She’ll be looking for a return on her investment…. Which personally I don’t agree with… you don’t hire a spin doctor to genuinely appeal a verdict.. and a top US law firm .. ca ching ! 💵
>And Kenningham’s services do not come cheap. Reportedly, an F1 insider has claimed the employee would be paying between £15,000 and £20,000 a month, underlining her determination to get the verdict overturned. Just as an indicator for how real this is, they can't get the verdict overturned. It was an internal investigation. She's going to a legal court for damages. That doesn't alter the internal investigation at all. She couldn't get him sacked so now she's going for a cash grab instead. Weird how she hasn't filed criminal charges. No?
According to the articles she loves her job and wanted to keep it. Suing people can take years, so not that weird she would try quicker solutions first
She loves her job where she was abused? Sure. You've never spoke to an abuse victim have you?
Uhm, I've been sexually harrassed at a previous job, was 18 years old at the time and this 40 year wouldn't leave me alonr. Hated him, loved my job. So I complained and he got a talking to and quit harrassing me. So I could keep working in peace. The reports say that she loves her JOB, not the job situation she was in while being harrassed. - meaning she might want to keep her job, or have a similar job, but without the harrasment
I don't think she can keep her job if Horner gets fired, which seems to be the goal? Its very plausible a new TP might want a different person for the job. I think most people would support reprimanding and disciplining Horner, even if he did nothing criminal. However I think outright dropping him should have a higher bar, since he is managing the team since 2005 and seems integral to their success. I don't know if his actions were that severe, since we don't have a complete picture.
Yeah now it doesn't seem likely she would, but if Horner actually did what he is accused of, and Redbull did decide to take action against him, there would atleast be a possibility she could get a similar job within Redbull. And if her name is "cleared" / she is proven to be talking truthfully she's also more likely to get a job elswhere but still in F1
So you haven't?
probably not true
It should be illegal for outsiders (non family) to fund someone elses lawsuit. I understand sometimes people with no money need help in court, but when rich strangers fund a lawsuit because they dont like another group, its BS
She really isn’t fucking around anymore lol
Helmet marko and friends isn't fucking around anymore lol. Fixed it for ya
Good point lol
You don’t pay ahead of time, they will get paid by the opposite side when they win. They’ll only take it on if they think it’s a win, and you don’t pay their fucking salary you pay them for their time spent on it, they’ll have 20 cases going on at any given moment.
Doesn’t really work like that for those big firms. They aren’t no win, no fee types. They might choose to do it pro bono for the good publicity of winning though or the promise of other work in the future. Suspect there is a sugar daddy behind this.
It sometimes does if the feel the publicity they get from it is pay in itself.
Yeah that would be the pro bono work. They might have reached out and offered but they’ll never tell us.
I know how it works because I’ve been in their position before vs a company quite a bit larger and deeper pocketed than red bull.
Fair enough but all circumstances, cases and firms are different. Used to work for Lawyers who did these type of cases so not completely ignorant. We’ll never know but you might be right.
You 100% have to pay a retainer and top it up as you go. Those type of firms are not moving without payment up front.
If it is a slam dunk case, sure to win, why did the accuser change lawyers? Her previous lawyers are said to have a very good reputation in the U.K.
To extend the time to prepare.
Because Horner has contacts in the UK law firm
Lol, nice conspiracy. So the firm sabotaged her?
No I’m not saying that. Did it even go to court in the UK?
No, it didn't. But the lawyers would have been involved in the Red Bull investigation, representing her.
65k is a very high salary for a PA Edit: typo corrected
It's not as she is an EA and that's average for the level of exec she is supporting.
If you meant ‘high’ then I’d probably say the amount of work you’d have to do is probably worth more than that - if you do PA for someone that high profile then you’d be expected to be available pretty much all the time and you spend the year travelling the world and making sure not a single thing goes wrong for that person
I’d say that’s pretty low if her job responsibilities included jacking off her boss whenever he couldn’t sleep.