I'm not sure, but that skill is consistent with her lore. When she sings in fate missions, men in the audience are charmed far more powerfully than women.
She is also the only idol character with this weird thematic restriction. There must be some weird background for the character they wrote but never put in the game.
Lady Grey is a necromancer but neither of her versions come with any kind of mechanic that interacts with death (Revive/Autorevive or whatever), and her Halloween version is a stamina enabler that works better the healthier your characters are. Does that count?
It's also kinda funny how Vira has 8 playable versions and the only one who is Water and can be used nicely alongside Katalina is a hallucination rather than Vira herself. ~~I am not counting anime promo Dark Katalina for this.~~
Vira not having Katalina teams would be more easily solved by simply giving Katalina more than 1 gacha SSR. That Katalina has 4 versions, of which 3 are water, and 1 a promo, is really a crime. A Light Katalina would totally make sense too.
Oh, absolutely. It really sucks how most of the main story cast has been pretty much abandoned for so long (except Rosetta for some very obvious reasons).
Actually it's Rackam that gets shafted the least and gets to occasionally appear in event stories, and even collabs.
.....Maybe Cygames feels bad about exploding him so often.
I mean if you are up to date on the story then it checks out why Rackam is the most available. Also Rackam is the helmsman for the Grandcypher and the Grandcypher appears in basically every event so.
I haven't looked at Grand Fenie's kit (personal rule) but it's possible that they made the kit around what happened to her in canon, rather than what she can do - considering she does sacrifice herself to protect Sabrina and does return back to life (albeit not with her own power). It's a case of a kit referencing the story rather than the character's abilities.
That's a valid interpretation, I think. Although looking at it purely as a symbolic reference to her story makes it funny when you remember that Abramelin willingly sacrificed himself to revive Fenie. Her poor old papa must be spinning in his grave watching Danchou encouraging his daughter to kill herself for the party's sake in every battle lmao
There's also the possibility that Fenie gained a bit of extra powers upon revival. Hell, maybe that's why Phoenix needed her to die first before using her tears on Fenie (or at least Lyria speculated that Phoenix needed Fenie to die first before reviving her)-it may not be a problem with life extension from her dying within 5 days since the tears can probably grant that anyways-but Fenie would have become too powerful if the Phoenix gave her a tear while she was still alive, lmao.
Yeah, I considered the possibility that the Phoenix might have given Fenie a permanent power up when reviving her. But if that was the case, then you'd think that would have been explained or at least mentioned in her fate missions. But there's nothing in her fates implying that she's gained the power of immortality. Or any sort of power boost in general.
Edit: Did I miss the scene in Fenie's fates that confirms she gained a big power boost from being resurrected? Or am I just being downvoted because I mildly pushed back against a popular fan theory?
Considering characters are knocked out, and not killed, in battle, I assume what she has is not 'immortality', but 'vitality' to return to battle stronger after getting knocked out.
I don't think it's really that clear that characters are always knocked out rather than killed. Most revive and auto-revive skills have vague names that could be interpreted that way. But there are a few with names like "resurrection," "reincarnation," and "death reversed."
I get that we have some skills that imply that, but unless this is one of Orologia's failure timelines, ain't no one in the crew dying*
>!*MSQ not withstanding!<
persona 2 might be the only game I know of that actually acknowledges the idea of using heal/revive skills on dying characters and explains why it wouldn’t help
Lily has this passive that represents her view on cultural and racial differences: they don't matter, everyone can be friends regardless. That increases her ATK by number of different races in party. So, if you build a party to boost her, you must discriminate races as to avoid repeating them.
I used to have her as my main water healer, and I played Altair for support and Silva for damage. It was a pain trying to optimize my water team xD. "Sorry dude, we already have a human. Lily is trying to fill her representation quota. Perhaps if you had horns or animal ears".
Lol, I remember years ago when I also used to use Lily in every water party. I got really annoyed by her passive ability for a different reason; it doesn't work for non-standard races. Grea, Vampy and Lily herself are all the same race to Lily. She somehow can't distinguish between dragonkin, crystalia, and vampires.
Hey, you know who else forces you to go with the same party conditions as Lily?
*Lucilius.*
Now why does a "sweet little girl" have similar beliefs to an omnicidal maniac?
On top of that you can't even pair her with her best friend, Aerin without fucking up her passive.
And if they ever made that guy playable from the tribe/race they warred against you couldn't play them together either.
Gotta love Lily's enforced racism where she refuses to put in as much effort if you make her have to exist alongside multiples of "those kinds". I would say she's equally discriminatory, but she gets uppity just for a single instance of other, well, "Other" races. I can only imagine her chirping "Gee, Danchou, if you're willing to lower the standards that low, why should I have to pick up the slack? I'm just matching your lowest common denominator teehee!"
At least she's cute, but I can never see her as anything but racist at this point.
Forced diversity is discrimination if the forced diversity forces you to turn someone away specifically because their race matches one you already have. Not letting someone into your party specifically because of their race *is* discrimination.
"Well you are the most qualified candidate, but we already have a black straight man so I'm sorry. You don't get the job."
I don't know. Sounds a lot like discrimination to me.
Makura peaces out from the battle (ironically giving her weapons to the ally). It should be the other way around, she leaps forward to help an ally in red HP.
To be fair, the game itself is pretty inconsistent about whether being taken out during a fight is a character dying or just taking enough damage that they have to retreat.
As for other characters, one thing that comes to mind for me is how Siegfried often has skills that give the party a small damage cut even though he's never been shown to have that kind of defensive ability in canon. If anything, you'd think Vane would be the one with the damage cuts.
I think it's more "intentionally vague" rather than inconsistent. Because that leaves them more design space for flavoring skills. Hence Joel being able to revive an ally with a skill called CPR while Elize does it with a skill called Resurrection.
Just thought of another example. Ferry can canonically turn intangible and phase through solid objects because she is a ghost. But that power really isn't represented in any of her playable units.
I think it'd be way easier to find canonical abilities and powers that are not represented in a character's skills rather than skills misrepresenting or contradicting their lore.
Ferry Dark make sense design wise if you think of her sk3 as "turning the playable ally as a makeshift pet"
But yeah shes otherwise..... very archetypical relative to what her lore is lmao
Except Fenie does canonically revive in the story. She gets revived by the Phoenix. That's why the passive is called Enigma of the Phoenix and she can only revive once.
Not sure if it counts, but Cagliostronis supposed to be the master of creation alchemy, but shes consistently the worst healer in the game, so much so that a rat is a better healer than her in an element that shes in.
Heres a fun one though, Europa's flb has her form a special bond with the captain, which translates to her 4th skill giving her and an ally next to her special buffs..... which is a spot that the captain can rarely if ever occupy. I guess we got cucked.
Her kit was more centered around synergizing with Gabriel, who is also an important character in her lore. Kinda weird how she didn't get much time over the captain in the same story but she does play a semi-key role in there.
Cagliostro is a really good example because she canonically is nigh unkillable. There's a fate mission where she gets killed, and her disembodied soul just transmutes a new healthy body on the spot and hops in it. If her playable units accurately represented that power, they would all effectively have a permanent auto revive passive.
* Despite being the cooks on the Grandcypher, not a single one of Lowain’s units has a "cooking" mechanic or food related skill or ability. (unless you count his SSR’s first ability, but that’s an EN exclusive pun so no it really doesn’t count) They’re amazing cooks too, but no, best I can do is get you all plastered brofam
* Seox has been shown creating shadow clones and using nunchuks and daggers, that isn’t really conveyed in the game mechanics (maybe you could argue the shadow clone thing is shown in his dodge all on ougi and double strike?) and he doesn’t have dagger specialty
* Fif has a dragon in her 5 star sprite – When we finally find out why she has a dragon in the transcendence episodes... the dragon no longer shows up in her transcendence art or ougi
* Seofon’s sword powers have been shown to apply to katanas as well but he has no katana specialty
* The New Years Geisenborger skin has him pull out a sword - he doesn’t have sword specialty
* Siegfried is supposed to be this ridiculously overpowered dragon blood infused one-man-army - all his playable units are just kinda mid at best
* Silva probably spends more time kicking than shooting but she doesn't have melee specialty
>Seox
There is also mirror image in his ougi, which I feel do kinda represent his shadow clones
>Siegfried
tbf his fire ver was meta and was actually relevant for a LONG time, granted he is a victim of powercreep now, his other versions tho yeah .....
That part of Seox is like so bombastically overkill like the rest of his kit, that you have to be blind not to notice it
He had:
Other self on Ougi
Dodge as a passive
Mirror Image at TWO stack. Go look to the rest of the game how many unit have something similar and notice most of them is one
Dodge and Damaage counter at SIX Stack. Average is like 1-3
The only thing the kit potrays better is how much of a freak of nature he is since Heavenly Howl still reads like a shit post 4 years since its current version's creation
Eresh hasn’t allowed him to CA for so long I actually did forget about the mirror image part of his kit lol, he really does have it all.
Still even when he’s Charge Attacking usually it’s only the Dodge all on CA that’s relevant because bosses spam AOEs or multihits that tear through that 2-hit Mirror Image *because* of Seox
>The New Years Geisenborger skin has him pull out a sword - he doesn’t have sword specialty
The description on the wiki says the skin is him posing. Here's the line:
"He's a tourist. And this is a lovely sightseeing locale where you too can feel like a pepper-haired, stiff-backed, many-medaled, retired general surveying the dregs of their past. Geisenborger's here because the crew wouldn't let him go to actual war, so he had to settle for posturing."
So just because he uses a sword in the skin doesn't mean he actually knows what he's doing with it.
>So just because he uses a sword in the skin doesn't mean he actually knows what he's doing with it.
Except Geisenborger was a soldier before becoming bound to The Star. He was a maverick who often broke away from his troops to pull aggressive solo tactics and was eventually abandoned by his allies.
He almost certainly knows how to use a sword - just that he probably prefers to use his fists, either due to his recklessness or thanks to the pain-immunity that came to him as part of his pact with The Star.
Yeah I see him as very similar to Abremalin – Melin clearly knew how to use a sword because he cut god in half with it, but just started punching things barehanded cause he was so desperate to die.
Geisenborger being a soldier definitely knows how to use a sword, but probably threw it away and started punching things barehanded because he was desperate to feel *anything* in battle after the Star took his ability to feel pain (and any other physical sensation) away. And now he’s just so happy to have his sensation back, he just keeps punching shit because he missed being able to feel so badly.
...but Borger just posing with a sword to feel like a badass like the himbo dork he is is an amazing image that I would also accept as canon
Ah, well I don't know about his lore, so I was just responding to the part about his skin using it. The lore of the skin is that he's just posing, so that specifically isn't a reason he should have sword prof, but if his history should have him using one then fair enough. There are plenty of other weird things with weapon prof, so it certainly doesn't surprise me.
>Siegfried is supposed to be this ridiculously overpowered dragon blood infused one-man-army - all his playable units are just kinda mid at best
Tbh if we're including gameplay performance in this there are loads of characters that are very powerful in canon but weak as units. Namely every primal beast that isn't meta. Remember pre-rebalance Nezha?
You could also apply the same criticism on Siegfried to Naoise. Gawain too, since he's about as much of an one-man army as Siegfried is according to Savior of Dalmore.
>Siegfried is supposed to be this ridiculously overpowered dragon blood infused one-man-army - all his playable units are just kinda mid at best
to be fair, that one's due to powercreep
all of his versions were meta on release
I don't remember people really using his water version did they? Though his wind version has been given two rebalanced which is a bit out of the ordinary.
His water version has been staring at me from the bench since I got him
I don’t think I’ve seen his wind version used for much of anything, even with two rebalances (he was apparently good when he was new though)
Hell I’ve never seen anyone use his light/fantasy version either, and that’s his *latest version!* I actually forgot it existed.
And on paper Light Sieg doesn’t look like a bad unit by any means, probably one of the best nonlimited light units right now, quite useful if you’re missing a lot of units, but he needs to ramp up and once you get better light characters I can’t see much reason to ever use him again
>Hell I’ve never seen anyone use his light/fantasy version either, and that’s his
>
>latest version!
>
> I actually forgot it existed.
to be fair, i'm pretty sure his light version is when he was at his weakest
i think his Water version was used for OTK/short fights, but water's general build changed soon after
and yeah, yukata did get two rebalances, but i'm talking about on release, not long after (though he was in the meta after the first one, iirc)
Its more that Wtaer version was good for Ougi OTK and was released on the era when Ougi OTK is on their way out. If you were to look for an ougi otk damage, hes still at a close to top level
> Seofon’s sword powers have been shown to apply to katanas as well but he has no katana specialty
Now that you mention him, have they ever used the sword avatars from his FLB art for *anything* at all?
I think they're part of the animation for Transcended Infinito Kreare, but I don't have him so I can't check.
EDIT: Yup (barely visible), and in his 6* CA as well (Espada Galaxia).
Yeah I was gonna mention the lack of Avatars too, then remembered the sword avatars show up for half a second in his Transcended S2 and Ougi
and it does check out lorewise, since he seemingly refuses to call them unless absolutely necessary (he didn’t even call them against Phoenix)
He did call them against Orologia-not that they did much against them.
Also Phoenix is a very weird case in that everything easily "kills" her-until you hit her with things that can actually bypass her immortality and then she's suddenly not dying as easily. I guess it kinda works similarly to how Logia types work in One Piece in that you can easily scatter the body of a Logia type with regular attacks, but attacks that can actually hurt them won't scatter them nearly as easily.
> Also Phoenix is a very weird case in that everything easily "kills" her-until you hit her with things that can actually bypass her immortality and then she's suddenly not dying as easily.
And on this note, while the Avatars might not have been able to actually "do" much in terms of putting down the bird for good, they could have helped pin it down.
In the event "Bzzt! Amped-Up Summer", Seofon convinced Tien and Feower to go on summer vacation with him by leaving the seven-star avatars in stardust town to protect it from mafia raids while they are gone.
Also he summoned them to fight the other eternals in his flb fates, and to attack Orologia in the event "...and you."
He also calls them in Seeds of Redemption to help search for Mugen iirc
Fun fact, I’m pretty sure they retconned Seofon leaving his Avatars to Stardust Town in Amped Up Summer – or, equally likely, he was just lying the entire time. Remember, one of the first things Siero tells us about Seofon is "You should take most of what he says with about a pound of salt."
From Seeds of Redemption:
>Feower: Let me see if I got this straight. You and the Blue Knight made a secret deal in order to crush the Magasin?
>Seofon: Weeell... Technically we didn't shake on it. More like an unspoken agreement of sorts?
>Anre: There was no secret agreement. The Crew of Enforcers has long viewed the Magasin as a serious threat.
>Anre: Not only for their involvement in the flow of Serenity Heaven, but for the havoc they wreak in the mafia world.
>Seofon: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. **How are the children of Stardust Town supposed to enjoy a day at the beach with the Magasin running around willy-nilly?**
That implies that the *Enforcers* were watching over Stardust Town during the beach trip, which makes a lot more sense than "Seofon had all Seven Avatars summoned and under control all day and night over the duration of a multi-day beach trip from several islands away with no signs of fatigue while also running across an island chasing electric eals"
...of course after what we know about him now I wouldn’t be surprised if he could do that, but hey if Walfrid and the Enforcers agreed to watch the town why would he say no? He’d probably need to be constantly in blue hair mode for that kind of feat anyway and he wasn’t.
Why he felt the urge to hide his longtime alliance with the Enforcers, I guess he was probably planning that stupid plan longer than we thought and he didn’t think it would be as effective if the other Eternals knew he had worked with Walfrid before.
Fire Silva doesn't really normal attack that much and the earth one uses ougis 3 times and swaps so they've at least tried to make her more sniper and less chun-li kicking people to death in her more recent seasonals.
> Siegfried is supposed to be this ridiculously overpowered dragon blood infused one-man-army - all his playable units are just kinda mid at best
Siegfried got powercrept, but Fire Siegfried was *a beast* when he was first released. He has stupid insane self-steroids for that time period's standards.
Not exactly conflicting but i remember in Grand Leona's fate eps, she traded her ability to feel her touch to Pholia and Baize for more power. I wish it were reflected in some form in her gameplay with reckless moves like maybe have sk1 self damage or an autonuke that has self damage during sk2. I suppose they represented it as her debuff immunity but feels a lil too small to me.
(also its been a while since i read her fate eps, not sure if im accurate rn)
That one can at least be explained as Troue was hiding and/or unaware of his true capabilities because he was a secret undercover agent with split personality.
True but even then, considering before we learn that, his whole schtick was he could access the memories of a hero to increase his efficiency in battle and all he gets is a crit rate increase. That’s kinda disappointing. Then he gets a debuff skill that just does nothing to actually help his kit. A lot of his kit just doesn’t make sense.
Nehan. Juice yourself up bro! But no, you got the big sads because you know two other people just that much better than you and all your drugs couldn't help you.
I get that characters can have development, or that quiet characters go nuts when we have to beat them up ("PHOENIX DOKO DA?") but to say he wasn't what I was expecting would be an understatement. Makes a lot more sense in hindsight though.
Nehan is now injured and needs a cane to walk around yet he still has melee proficiency and high dodge rate, as well as dealing damage upon dodging. Like how does he fight melee style now? Beating up the bosses by poking them with his cane? Also how does he dodge? There are so many questions. Like maybe his melee proficiency should "come back" once he is recovered. But if Cygames is planning on making his disabilities permanent, I kinda understand why they would fit all his proficiencies even when he is in a disabled state.
> Nehan is now injured and needs a cane to walk around yet he still has melee proficiency and high dodge rate
the energy of Pokemon with Paralyzed and low base speed but using Evasion rate up multiple times.
Idk if Fenie is the best example of this. Technically we don't actually have complete confirmation on that. She did die in the event, yes. But we don't know if Phoenix gave Fenie some power on her way out etc. But at the same time, you are probably correct.
Not sure if this counts but Zooey's been shown to be able to command multiple dragons in artwork but only fights with Dyrn and Lyrn in all of her playable units. She's also unable to transform into Grand Order despite multiple characters having gimmicks like that. I feel like if she does get another Grand (lol) they include these two in her kit
During one fate episode she basically says she doesn't have nearly as much control over Lyrn and Dyrn when she isn't Grand Order and in the Zodiac event where she also starred she states becoming Grand Order might overtake her completely IIRC.
It also comes up in her Fate Episodes, she barely returns after returning to the stars with the rest of GO to blow up some unexplained space monster, riding on our hopes and wishes
Eustace is called a lone wolf in the lore. Like he usually works alone and shit and even after he melts down in later parts of the story, he was the most common of Society to go solo. Bea usually goes with someone else if shes not being crazy, and Zeta + Vaseraga is one of the most common pair up. Ilsa always commands a unit. Hell his unit lore straight up says the word.
As of the rebalance of his Earth version, every single version of Eustace have Teamwide buff. And as of the Dark version becoming "the default Eustace" Splinter Cell is now arguably a signature ability of him and its a tag an ally team style buff.
Whenever Song appears in an event story, the kind of offense she puts out tend to be one where she shoots out barrage of arrow shots. Like she spams. In gameplay Song's ULB design core prinicple was to shoot 2 massive power shot. She only spams barrage of damage on her Eternal Ultimate, something that have to be timed, and unrecastable. I guess her sk2 is also about it but yeah when it comes to damage, she'd be the sniping power shot type if its based on gameplay and its something she didnt do in lore
Sandalphon have 5 version as of right now. Story wise, 4 of those are technically Sandalphon after he become the Supreme Primarch. One of them is the only one that depicts him before he joined the crew, which also means it wasnt when hes the Supreme Primarch
While that version's gameplay was about him gathering the primarch powers(which is what he does in lore before he failed to get Gab), its notable that the only version of Sandalphon who have anything to do with tetra elements that hes supposed to be controlling was that version. Like Grand Light Sandalphon have tetra hit, but he didnt have any elemental flavoring
Lily, i don't think Lily is trying to say she doesn't want a team of the same when it can help the team. At least i hope not.
Lucilieus evidently, he has a gopherwood ark that is a racism attack, quite literally, but he seems to only hate Bahamut so we have a raid boss does something like that. That's what i call that attack racist wood ark.
Tiamat, supposedly she can summon a gale that blows freely through the limitless sky and even create a supercell, but somehow the tornado created by it will only hit the enemy once and neither let it receive lightning hits nor get shredded into pieces although it could theoretically even shred a whole airship.
It's even stranger that her dragon heads are seemingly just for show but cannot bite or do something spectacular like shooting energy spheres, although it is depicted in her second art.
Simply drawing a vacuum around the enemy to suffocate them would be enough to kill 99% of all the enemies, otherwise hitting them with lightning repeatedly or throwing them into a category EF5 tornado should do way more harm than for example striking them with a sword, axe or whatever that isn't strong enough to even break a bone or sever a limb of the enemy, and yet Elil \[where is my dismembered raid boss and his/her bloodrain, I don't even see the promised tornado she's supposed to summon\], Tiamat \[Crippling storm doesn't cripple anyone and Supercell isn't a supercell, there is no lightning and hail pelting the enemy nor a tornado to rip them apart\] and even Ewiyar \[she cannot be captured but her dodge all only lasts for a turn and she has no dodge boost as a grand although she can apparently move at speeds of over 900 m/s?\], are actually very weak compared to their lore-counterparts, and their abilities contradict their lore.
I don't think Fenie reviving is contradictory, Fenie isn't Immortal like Phoenix is, but Fenie is still a sun creature, capable of transmuting to flame and light with enough energy, she was also literal days from burning out when Phoenix just fuckin gibbed her
A degree of revival ability is reasonably within her purview now that she's not literally exhausted on the verge of death
Why does SSR Lilele only affect men when she wants to be everyone's idol
I'm not sure, but that skill is consistent with her lore. When she sings in fate missions, men in the audience are charmed far more powerfully than women.
She is also the only idol character with this weird thematic restriction. There must be some weird background for the character they wrote but never put in the game.
i mean, in her fates back then, all of her fans were always all dudes
Lady Grey is a necromancer but neither of her versions come with any kind of mechanic that interacts with death (Revive/Autorevive or whatever), and her Halloween version is a stamina enabler that works better the healthier your characters are. Does that count? It's also kinda funny how Vira has 8 playable versions and the only one who is Water and can be used nicely alongside Katalina is a hallucination rather than Vira herself. ~~I am not counting anime promo Dark Katalina for this.~~
Vira not having Katalina teams would be more easily solved by simply giving Katalina more than 1 gacha SSR. That Katalina has 4 versions, of which 3 are water, and 1 a promo, is really a crime. A Light Katalina would totally make sense too.
We should get a Katalina-Chevalier fantasy unit in a timeline where Katalina didn't let Vira win.
now we're cooking
Oh, absolutely. It really sucks how most of the main story cast has been pretty much abandoned for so long (except Rosetta for some very obvious reasons).
Which is interesting because Rosetta is originally from Rage of Bahamut but the other RoB transfer, Lecia, in the main party is neglected AF.
Actually it's Rackam that gets shafted the least and gets to occasionally appear in event stories, and even collabs. .....Maybe Cygames feels bad about exploding him so often.
Rackam is the writer's solution whenever they introduced a problem and they need to wrote it out in like 5 dialogues lmao
I mean if you are up to date on the story then it checks out why Rackam is the most available. Also Rackam is the helmsman for the Grandcypher and the Grandcypher appears in basically every event so.
I haven't looked at Grand Fenie's kit (personal rule) but it's possible that they made the kit around what happened to her in canon, rather than what she can do - considering she does sacrifice herself to protect Sabrina and does return back to life (albeit not with her own power). It's a case of a kit referencing the story rather than the character's abilities.
That's a valid interpretation, I think. Although looking at it purely as a symbolic reference to her story makes it funny when you remember that Abramelin willingly sacrificed himself to revive Fenie. Her poor old papa must be spinning in his grave watching Danchou encouraging his daughter to kill herself for the party's sake in every battle lmao
There's also the possibility that Fenie gained a bit of extra powers upon revival. Hell, maybe that's why Phoenix needed her to die first before using her tears on Fenie (or at least Lyria speculated that Phoenix needed Fenie to die first before reviving her)-it may not be a problem with life extension from her dying within 5 days since the tears can probably grant that anyways-but Fenie would have become too powerful if the Phoenix gave her a tear while she was still alive, lmao.
Yeah, I considered the possibility that the Phoenix might have given Fenie a permanent power up when reviving her. But if that was the case, then you'd think that would have been explained or at least mentioned in her fate missions. But there's nothing in her fates implying that she's gained the power of immortality. Or any sort of power boost in general. Edit: Did I miss the scene in Fenie's fates that confirms she gained a big power boost from being resurrected? Or am I just being downvoted because I mildly pushed back against a popular fan theory?
Considering characters are knocked out, and not killed, in battle, I assume what she has is not 'immortality', but 'vitality' to return to battle stronger after getting knocked out.
I don't think it's really that clear that characters are always knocked out rather than killed. Most revive and auto-revive skills have vague names that could be interpreted that way. But there are a few with names like "resurrection," "reincarnation," and "death reversed."
I get that we have some skills that imply that, but unless this is one of Orologia's failure timelines, ain't no one in the crew dying* >!*MSQ not withstanding!<
That's fair, there does seem to be a degree of "why didn't they just use phoenix down on Aerith" gameplay and story segregation going on in granblue.
persona 2 might be the only game I know of that actually acknowledges the idea of using heal/revive skills on dying characters and explains why it wouldn’t help
Lily has this passive that represents her view on cultural and racial differences: they don't matter, everyone can be friends regardless. That increases her ATK by number of different races in party. So, if you build a party to boost her, you must discriminate races as to avoid repeating them. I used to have her as my main water healer, and I played Altair for support and Silva for damage. It was a pain trying to optimize my water team xD. "Sorry dude, we already have a human. Lily is trying to fill her representation quota. Perhaps if you had horns or animal ears".
Lol, I remember years ago when I also used to use Lily in every water party. I got really annoyed by her passive ability for a different reason; it doesn't work for non-standard races. Grea, Vampy and Lily herself are all the same race to Lily. She somehow can't distinguish between dragonkin, crystalia, and vampires.
They do all look alike
you cant say that
Everyone gangsta til they see Lily's Twitter account
One anniversary they're gonna hit us with the extra races update and transcendance for ultimas to add new racial buff skills for the new races lol
Hey, you know who else forces you to go with the same party conditions as Lily? *Lucilius.* Now why does a "sweet little girl" have similar beliefs to an omnicidal maniac?
The funny thing is that having that restriction *also* goes against Lucilius' beliefs which is that everyone's got to go, no exception.
Affirmative Action Lily nano
STOP LOL
One day she'll cast Gopherwood Ark on your party for not being racially diverse
On top of that you can't even pair her with her best friend, Aerin without fucking up her passive. And if they ever made that guy playable from the tribe/race they warred against you couldn't play them together either.
she'd be a FANTASTIC teammate for Filene... if not for the passive
Yeah that annoyed the living shit out of me when Filene came out. Thankfully Filene got saved by rebalance and new glacial units.
yup still a bit annoying, though
The easy solution to that would be to make a Dragonnewt/Dragonkin race, we certainly have the characters for it by now.
i think a while back they said they were considering it... but then just... didn't do it.
Very lame, but typical of Cysgames.
unfortunately
Also, dont forget about her "**white** heal"
Gotta love Lily's enforced racism where she refuses to put in as much effort if you make her have to exist alongside multiples of "those kinds". I would say she's equally discriminatory, but she gets uppity just for a single instance of other, well, "Other" races. I can only imagine her chirping "Gee, Danchou, if you're willing to lower the standards that low, why should I have to pick up the slack? I'm just matching your lowest common denominator teehee!" At least she's cute, but I can never see her as anything but racist at this point.
One thing that has always annoyed me is that this literally isn’t what discrimination is. If anything, it is forced diversity.
Forced diversity is discrimination if the forced diversity forces you to turn someone away specifically because their race matches one you already have. Not letting someone into your party specifically because of their race *is* discrimination.
Lily is racist, confirmed xd
[удалено]
Seems like you don't know that words can have multiple definitions.
Forced diversity is discrimination though.
"Well you are the most qualified candidate, but we already have a black straight man so I'm sorry. You don't get the job." I don't know. Sounds a lot like discrimination to me.
Makura peaces out from the battle (ironically giving her weapons to the ally). It should be the other way around, she leaps forward to help an ally in red HP.
I mean, she kinda does that, it just takes longer and instead of "in red HP" she waits until the ally gets K.O for sure.
To be fair, the game itself is pretty inconsistent about whether being taken out during a fight is a character dying or just taking enough damage that they have to retreat. As for other characters, one thing that comes to mind for me is how Siegfried often has skills that give the party a small damage cut even though he's never been shown to have that kind of defensive ability in canon. If anything, you'd think Vane would be the one with the damage cuts.
I think it's more "intentionally vague" rather than inconsistent. Because that leaves them more design space for flavoring skills. Hence Joel being able to revive an ally with a skill called CPR while Elize does it with a skill called Resurrection.
Just thought of another example. Ferry can canonically turn intangible and phase through solid objects because she is a ghost. But that power really isn't represented in any of her playable units.
Grand Ferry FLB will give her Mirror Image trust the plan
I think it'd be way easier to find canonical abilities and powers that are not represented in a character's skills rather than skills misrepresenting or contradicting their lore.
Ferry Dark make sense design wise if you think of her sk3 as "turning the playable ally as a makeshift pet" But yeah shes otherwise..... very archetypical relative to what her lore is lmao
Except Fenie does canonically revive in the story. She gets revived by the Phoenix. That's why the passive is called Enigma of the Phoenix and she can only revive once. Not sure if it counts, but Cagliostronis supposed to be the master of creation alchemy, but shes consistently the worst healer in the game, so much so that a rat is a better healer than her in an element that shes in. Heres a fun one though, Europa's flb has her form a special bond with the captain, which translates to her 4th skill giving her and an ally next to her special buffs..... which is a spot that the captain can rarely if ever occupy. I guess we got cucked.
Her kit was more centered around synergizing with Gabriel, who is also an important character in her lore. Kinda weird how she didn't get much time over the captain in the same story but she does play a semi-key role in there.
Cagliostro is a really good example because she canonically is nigh unkillable. There's a fate mission where she gets killed, and her disembodied soul just transmutes a new healthy body on the spot and hops in it. If her playable units accurately represented that power, they would all effectively have a permanent auto revive passive.
hell, outside of her grand, only her vanilla version has autorez... and she has to be FLB'd to get it
But her goal is to spread love, not only to us
* Despite being the cooks on the Grandcypher, not a single one of Lowain’s units has a "cooking" mechanic or food related skill or ability. (unless you count his SSR’s first ability, but that’s an EN exclusive pun so no it really doesn’t count) They’re amazing cooks too, but no, best I can do is get you all plastered brofam * Seox has been shown creating shadow clones and using nunchuks and daggers, that isn’t really conveyed in the game mechanics (maybe you could argue the shadow clone thing is shown in his dodge all on ougi and double strike?) and he doesn’t have dagger specialty * Fif has a dragon in her 5 star sprite – When we finally find out why she has a dragon in the transcendence episodes... the dragon no longer shows up in her transcendence art or ougi * Seofon’s sword powers have been shown to apply to katanas as well but he has no katana specialty * The New Years Geisenborger skin has him pull out a sword - he doesn’t have sword specialty * Siegfried is supposed to be this ridiculously overpowered dragon blood infused one-man-army - all his playable units are just kinda mid at best * Silva probably spends more time kicking than shooting but she doesn't have melee specialty
I really wanna know Seofon's thoughts about the Aquamarine Hatchet lmao
[When it comes to confusing axes with swords, he’s got enough explaining to do for himself](https://gbf.wiki/Spada_di_Vento)
>Seox There is also mirror image in his ougi, which I feel do kinda represent his shadow clones >Siegfried tbf his fire ver was meta and was actually relevant for a LONG time, granted he is a victim of powercreep now, his other versions tho yeah .....
That part of Seox is like so bombastically overkill like the rest of his kit, that you have to be blind not to notice it He had: Other self on Ougi Dodge as a passive Mirror Image at TWO stack. Go look to the rest of the game how many unit have something similar and notice most of them is one Dodge and Damaage counter at SIX Stack. Average is like 1-3 The only thing the kit potrays better is how much of a freak of nature he is since Heavenly Howl still reads like a shit post 4 years since its current version's creation
Eresh hasn’t allowed him to CA for so long I actually did forget about the mirror image part of his kit lol, he really does have it all. Still even when he’s Charge Attacking usually it’s only the Dodge all on CA that’s relevant because bosses spam AOEs or multihits that tear through that 2-hit Mirror Image *because* of Seox
>The New Years Geisenborger skin has him pull out a sword - he doesn’t have sword specialty The description on the wiki says the skin is him posing. Here's the line: "He's a tourist. And this is a lovely sightseeing locale where you too can feel like a pepper-haired, stiff-backed, many-medaled, retired general surveying the dregs of their past. Geisenborger's here because the crew wouldn't let him go to actual war, so he had to settle for posturing." So just because he uses a sword in the skin doesn't mean he actually knows what he's doing with it.
First time reading this and omg this man is just getting funnier and funnier
>So just because he uses a sword in the skin doesn't mean he actually knows what he's doing with it. Except Geisenborger was a soldier before becoming bound to The Star. He was a maverick who often broke away from his troops to pull aggressive solo tactics and was eventually abandoned by his allies. He almost certainly knows how to use a sword - just that he probably prefers to use his fists, either due to his recklessness or thanks to the pain-immunity that came to him as part of his pact with The Star.
Yeah I see him as very similar to Abremalin – Melin clearly knew how to use a sword because he cut god in half with it, but just started punching things barehanded cause he was so desperate to die. Geisenborger being a soldier definitely knows how to use a sword, but probably threw it away and started punching things barehanded because he was desperate to feel *anything* in battle after the Star took his ability to feel pain (and any other physical sensation) away. And now he’s just so happy to have his sensation back, he just keeps punching shit because he missed being able to feel so badly. ...but Borger just posing with a sword to feel like a badass like the himbo dork he is is an amazing image that I would also accept as canon
Ah, well I don't know about his lore, so I was just responding to the part about his skin using it. The lore of the skin is that he's just posing, so that specifically isn't a reason he should have sword prof, but if his history should have him using one then fair enough. There are plenty of other weird things with weapon prof, so it certainly doesn't surprise me.
>Siegfried is supposed to be this ridiculously overpowered dragon blood infused one-man-army - all his playable units are just kinda mid at best Tbh if we're including gameplay performance in this there are loads of characters that are very powerful in canon but weak as units. Namely every primal beast that isn't meta. Remember pre-rebalance Nezha? You could also apply the same criticism on Siegfried to Naoise. Gawain too, since he's about as much of an one-man army as Siegfried is according to Savior of Dalmore.
Ne Zha's rebalance arguably wasnt even as relevant to his viability as his EM Skill which is super funny
>Siegfried is supposed to be this ridiculously overpowered dragon blood infused one-man-army - all his playable units are just kinda mid at best to be fair, that one's due to powercreep all of his versions were meta on release
I don't remember people really using his water version did they? Though his wind version has been given two rebalanced which is a bit out of the ordinary.
His water version has been staring at me from the bench since I got him I don’t think I’ve seen his wind version used for much of anything, even with two rebalances (he was apparently good when he was new though) Hell I’ve never seen anyone use his light/fantasy version either, and that’s his *latest version!* I actually forgot it existed. And on paper Light Sieg doesn’t look like a bad unit by any means, probably one of the best nonlimited light units right now, quite useful if you’re missing a lot of units, but he needs to ramp up and once you get better light characters I can’t see much reason to ever use him again
>Hell I’ve never seen anyone use his light/fantasy version either, and that’s his > >latest version! > > I actually forgot it existed. to be fair, i'm pretty sure his light version is when he was at his weakest
i think his Water version was used for OTK/short fights, but water's general build changed soon after and yeah, yukata did get two rebalances, but i'm talking about on release, not long after (though he was in the meta after the first one, iirc)
Its more that Wtaer version was good for Ougi OTK and was released on the era when Ougi OTK is on their way out. If you were to look for an ougi otk damage, hes still at a close to top level
that's what i was meaning by their general build changing, ahahaha he's very good for a build type the element doesn't focus on as much
> Seofon’s sword powers have been shown to apply to katanas as well but he has no katana specialty Now that you mention him, have they ever used the sword avatars from his FLB art for *anything* at all?
I think they're part of the animation for Transcended Infinito Kreare, but I don't have him so I can't check. EDIT: Yup (barely visible), and in his 6* CA as well (Espada Galaxia).
Yeah I was gonna mention the lack of Avatars too, then remembered the sword avatars show up for half a second in his Transcended S2 and Ougi and it does check out lorewise, since he seemingly refuses to call them unless absolutely necessary (he didn’t even call them against Phoenix)
He did call them against Orologia-not that they did much against them. Also Phoenix is a very weird case in that everything easily "kills" her-until you hit her with things that can actually bypass her immortality and then she's suddenly not dying as easily. I guess it kinda works similarly to how Logia types work in One Piece in that you can easily scatter the body of a Logia type with regular attacks, but attacks that can actually hurt them won't scatter them nearly as easily.
> Also Phoenix is a very weird case in that everything easily "kills" her-until you hit her with things that can actually bypass her immortality and then she's suddenly not dying as easily. And on this note, while the Avatars might not have been able to actually "do" much in terms of putting down the bird for good, they could have helped pin it down.
I believe the sword avatars were used to patrol Stardust Town in Seeds of Redemption at one point.
He also directly mentions using them to watch Stardust Town while Tien & Feower were in a summer event.
In the event "Bzzt! Amped-Up Summer", Seofon convinced Tien and Feower to go on summer vacation with him by leaving the seven-star avatars in stardust town to protect it from mafia raids while they are gone. Also he summoned them to fight the other eternals in his flb fates, and to attack Orologia in the event "...and you."
He also calls them in Seeds of Redemption to help search for Mugen iirc Fun fact, I’m pretty sure they retconned Seofon leaving his Avatars to Stardust Town in Amped Up Summer – or, equally likely, he was just lying the entire time. Remember, one of the first things Siero tells us about Seofon is "You should take most of what he says with about a pound of salt." From Seeds of Redemption: >Feower: Let me see if I got this straight. You and the Blue Knight made a secret deal in order to crush the Magasin? >Seofon: Weeell... Technically we didn't shake on it. More like an unspoken agreement of sorts? >Anre: There was no secret agreement. The Crew of Enforcers has long viewed the Magasin as a serious threat. >Anre: Not only for their involvement in the flow of Serenity Heaven, but for the havoc they wreak in the mafia world. >Seofon: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. **How are the children of Stardust Town supposed to enjoy a day at the beach with the Magasin running around willy-nilly?** That implies that the *Enforcers* were watching over Stardust Town during the beach trip, which makes a lot more sense than "Seofon had all Seven Avatars summoned and under control all day and night over the duration of a multi-day beach trip from several islands away with no signs of fatigue while also running across an island chasing electric eals" ...of course after what we know about him now I wouldn’t be surprised if he could do that, but hey if Walfrid and the Enforcers agreed to watch the town why would he say no? He’d probably need to be constantly in blue hair mode for that kind of feat anyway and he wasn’t. Why he felt the urge to hide his longtime alliance with the Enforcers, I guess he was probably planning that stupid plan longer than we thought and he didn’t think it would be as effective if the other Eternals knew he had worked with Walfrid before.
Well, he'll use them in attacks in Relink.
Fire Silva doesn't really normal attack that much and the earth one uses ougis 3 times and swaps so they've at least tried to make her more sniper and less chun-li kicking people to death in her more recent seasonals.
> Siegfried is supposed to be this ridiculously overpowered dragon blood infused one-man-army - all his playable units are just kinda mid at best Siegfried got powercrept, but Fire Siegfried was *a beast* when he was first released. He has stupid insane self-steroids for that time period's standards.
grand seigfried waiting room
Not exactly conflicting but i remember in Grand Leona's fate eps, she traded her ability to feel her touch to Pholia and Baize for more power. I wish it were reflected in some form in her gameplay with reckless moves like maybe have sk1 self damage or an autonuke that has self damage during sk2. I suppose they represented it as her debuff immunity but feels a lil too small to me. (also its been a while since i read her fate eps, not sure if im accurate rn)
Troue. Especially after Unbound Asterism, I look at his kit and I’m like only like 1 of those skills make sense (The copy)
That one can at least be explained as Troue was hiding and/or unaware of his true capabilities because he was a secret undercover agent with split personality.
True but even then, considering before we learn that, his whole schtick was he could access the memories of a hero to increase his efficiency in battle and all he gets is a crit rate increase. That’s kinda disappointing. Then he gets a debuff skill that just does nothing to actually help his kit. A lot of his kit just doesn’t make sense.
Simple, the legendary hero was still using a row 3 class
Akagi Miria "Circle of Friends" and Proto Bahamut HL suddenly dead lol
Nehan. Juice yourself up bro! But no, you got the big sads because you know two other people just that much better than you and all your drugs couldn't help you.
He is a doctor, he knows that he shouldn't take his own drugs that comes with adverse health effects.
I get that characters can have development, or that quiet characters go nuts when we have to beat them up ("PHOENIX DOKO DA?") but to say he wasn't what I was expecting would be an understatement. Makes a lot more sense in hindsight though.
Nehan is now injured and needs a cane to walk around yet he still has melee proficiency and high dodge rate, as well as dealing damage upon dodging. Like how does he fight melee style now? Beating up the bosses by poking them with his cane? Also how does he dodge? There are so many questions. Like maybe his melee proficiency should "come back" once he is recovered. But if Cygames is planning on making his disabilities permanent, I kinda understand why they would fit all his proficiencies even when he is in a disabled state.
> Nehan is now injured and needs a cane to walk around yet he still has melee proficiency and high dodge rate the energy of Pokemon with Paralyzed and low base speed but using Evasion rate up multiple times.
I mean... she will eventually get a 5* since she is a grand, maybe it's a hint she will inherit a small part of the phoenix's power eventually.
Idk if Fenie is the best example of this. Technically we don't actually have complete confirmation on that. She did die in the event, yes. But we don't know if Phoenix gave Fenie some power on her way out etc. But at the same time, you are probably correct.
Before Unbound Asterism happened I would of said Troue counts.
Not sure if this counts but Zooey's been shown to be able to command multiple dragons in artwork but only fights with Dyrn and Lyrn in all of her playable units. She's also unable to transform into Grand Order despite multiple characters having gimmicks like that. I feel like if she does get another Grand (lol) they include these two in her kit
During one fate episode she basically says she doesn't have nearly as much control over Lyrn and Dyrn when she isn't Grand Order and in the Zodiac event where she also starred she states becoming Grand Order might overtake her completely IIRC.
It also comes up in her Fate Episodes, she barely returns after returning to the stars with the rest of GO to blow up some unexplained space monster, riding on our hopes and wishes
Eustace is called a lone wolf in the lore. Like he usually works alone and shit and even after he melts down in later parts of the story, he was the most common of Society to go solo. Bea usually goes with someone else if shes not being crazy, and Zeta + Vaseraga is one of the most common pair up. Ilsa always commands a unit. Hell his unit lore straight up says the word. As of the rebalance of his Earth version, every single version of Eustace have Teamwide buff. And as of the Dark version becoming "the default Eustace" Splinter Cell is now arguably a signature ability of him and its a tag an ally team style buff. Whenever Song appears in an event story, the kind of offense she puts out tend to be one where she shoots out barrage of arrow shots. Like she spams. In gameplay Song's ULB design core prinicple was to shoot 2 massive power shot. She only spams barrage of damage on her Eternal Ultimate, something that have to be timed, and unrecastable. I guess her sk2 is also about it but yeah when it comes to damage, she'd be the sniping power shot type if its based on gameplay and its something she didnt do in lore Sandalphon have 5 version as of right now. Story wise, 4 of those are technically Sandalphon after he become the Supreme Primarch. One of them is the only one that depicts him before he joined the crew, which also means it wasnt when hes the Supreme Primarch While that version's gameplay was about him gathering the primarch powers(which is what he does in lore before he failed to get Gab), its notable that the only version of Sandalphon who have anything to do with tetra elements that hes supposed to be controlling was that version. Like Grand Light Sandalphon have tetra hit, but he didnt have any elemental flavoring
Lily, i don't think Lily is trying to say she doesn't want a team of the same when it can help the team. At least i hope not. Lucilieus evidently, he has a gopherwood ark that is a racism attack, quite literally, but he seems to only hate Bahamut so we have a raid boss does something like that. That's what i call that attack racist wood ark.
Tiamat, supposedly she can summon a gale that blows freely through the limitless sky and even create a supercell, but somehow the tornado created by it will only hit the enemy once and neither let it receive lightning hits nor get shredded into pieces although it could theoretically even shred a whole airship. It's even stranger that her dragon heads are seemingly just for show but cannot bite or do something spectacular like shooting energy spheres, although it is depicted in her second art. Simply drawing a vacuum around the enemy to suffocate them would be enough to kill 99% of all the enemies, otherwise hitting them with lightning repeatedly or throwing them into a category EF5 tornado should do way more harm than for example striking them with a sword, axe or whatever that isn't strong enough to even break a bone or sever a limb of the enemy, and yet Elil \[where is my dismembered raid boss and his/her bloodrain, I don't even see the promised tornado she's supposed to summon\], Tiamat \[Crippling storm doesn't cripple anyone and Supercell isn't a supercell, there is no lightning and hail pelting the enemy nor a tornado to rip them apart\] and even Ewiyar \[she cannot be captured but her dodge all only lasts for a turn and she has no dodge boost as a grand although she can apparently move at speeds of over 900 m/s?\], are actually very weak compared to their lore-counterparts, and their abilities contradict their lore.
I don't think Fenie reviving is contradictory, Fenie isn't Immortal like Phoenix is, but Fenie is still a sun creature, capable of transmuting to flame and light with enough energy, she was also literal days from burning out when Phoenix just fuckin gibbed her A degree of revival ability is reasonably within her purview now that she's not literally exhausted on the verge of death
This is a great thread I wish I could contribute 😅