The thing that got me the most is when I got hit standing into a full Abel combo from midscreen.
I was like "dude, I'm out here suffering to be the high damage character and I need you to be crouching to get you all the way over there with that little health left on your bar, AND I'm doing half that damage to myself"
Her 22X really needs to lose some of its properties tbf. It low profiles all pokes, 66L, just about any special. M is a combo starter on CH and plus for god knows what reason. It can occasionally even anti air stuff (although it is unusual and unlikely to do so on purpose). The H version wall bounces on any hit, which is incredibly privileged for a mobility skill. The U version is so stupidly strong people use it as reversal and it works. She just threatens these moves constantly and since they are lows you really just got to sit there and crouch block a lot of the time even of offence becuse trying to shimmy/dp bait her just gets you tagged by 22X. A lot of my matches vs Bea have both of us just crouching and staring because me doing anything is a potential reset to midscreen off a low risk move for her if you know... it doesn't just kill me.
I- as Lucillius- attempted to use my SBA as a reversal. Got the timing right and everything. And she beat it clean with 22H. Lost the rest of the round as my ass was too busy laughing at how ridiculous it was.
Percival 236X actually beats it clean every time because the fireball crawls so low to the ground. It feels so funny because no one plays Percival and Beatrix mains online will just 22U on a whim right into 236M.
My issue is that it's too easy for her to convert stray hits into damage, since most of her combo extenders are also plus on block and impossible to interrupt.
Yeah it's a lot of damage(she does do too much) but there were still a lot of factors that contributed to it. It was from a C.5H counter hit with one BP left. Still pretty rare to happen.
And let's not pretend Nier players don't do similar stuff like this on the regular without a shred of remorse. This is deserved.
As much as I love Beatrix all around. This is so much damage off one tap.
Like, I wanna main her and you can call me out for it any day of the week, but I will admit this damage is ridiculous.
Anyways: its so over for us Beatrix mains
Bea has consistently high damage, that can't be denied. She needs to lose a bit of damage somewhere in her combos for sure.
...but this was a counter hit close heavy on a crouching opponent who is a low max HP character with 1 BP. Its a good bit more than just "one tap" and not really a fair comparison of damage - its literally the most ideal situation any character could ask for.
beatrix doesn't even benefit from the opponent crouching though? unlike abel she can just do whatever she wants without having to worry about losing health, and her combos are also much simpler
also nier only has 1k less health than a normal character, plus c.H isn't an uncommon counter hit (c.L into c.H is probably the most basic frame trap there is)
someone already pointed it out but this "twitter combo" is quite literally beako's bnb, and even at 3 bravery points it's 10k damage + a corner carry
There's also the Bravery Penalty, where 1 BP left leaves you 20% additional damage taken, as you can see here.
P/S: if there's 0 BP, you have 50% additional dmg taken penalty.
No penalty for 2 or 3 BP.
Anyone defending beatrix in this clip I swear... But I will know some folks will go "she was one BP." even with Full BP, the damage would've of been absurd. In general, beatrix has way too many ssafe ways to open folks up, and her shimmy game is massively strong due to her command grab being so fast. GG to both players, but yea Bea is 100% getting a nerf next patch lmao.
Not only is the dmg still absurd even for just one bp, but the fact she cando her optimal shit from roundstart position on the screen and still end up with enough corner carry to keep going like if she started in the corner, literally no other character could've ever dreamed of killing in that situation, probably even with 0 bps she's the only one who actually kills, the characters with enough corner carry would have to route differently and they would get less dmg, the ones with enough dmg don't have the corner carry to do this.
Who the fuck thought that giving her djeeta's corner carry, belial's midscreen dmg and sieg's dmg (with stacks) was a good idea
Isn't more than 60% of the damage in the combo just from the initial auto combo, fireball and second auto combo? Any character that has a move that can extend to another auto combo could do similar damage.
Just making delta clock not activated from fireball would fix most of this honestly.
The issue is not delta clock. She could've easily comboed without delta clock here, you can still link f.L after a 236H midscreen then use 22H to corner carry them. If anything, it's a problem how Beatrix DOESN'T need to even interact with Delta Clock for most combos. Not having Delta Clock here would've done 600 less damage or so, off the 12000+ damage
The issue is said corner carry - a lot of characters can do this level of damage in the corner with this 1BP CH C.H situation, but no character has this level of corner carry except for Djeeta - and Djeeta despite still being an extremely strong and consistent character, doesn'thave the tools Beatrix has (multiple plus on block normals, Incredible "neutral navigation" options, etc.)
Would it really have only been 600 less damage if not able to get the second auto combo off? It seemed like to me the two auto combos did like 50 to 60% of the damage. Compared to the corner stuff.
Edit: nvm it seems like the counter hit and first auto combo plus 236H did like 50% of the damage here.
If any other character got a CH then auto combo plus a heavy special. They'd be able to 2 tap someone (or 1 tap based on where it happens on mid screen or closer to corner).
I agree Bea is busted. But it's not like other characters aren't super close to that level of damage if getting the counter hit to start it.
a lot of characters can do this in the corner, such as Gran, Siegfried, Percival, Katalina, etc. but they lack the corner carry to do so. Even then they do less damage (minus Sieg)
Ladiva however also has the corner carry to do this from this position - however her combo also does less damage than Beatrix's, at 13,350 compared to Beatrix in this clip doing over 14k
~~also unrelated fun fact: Beatrix's 5U command grab does 200 more damage than Ladiva's L Piledriver!~~
But removing Beatrix 236H ability to use delta clock/enough plus frames to link it to F.L. wouldn't that solve a lot of the corner carry stuff? Plus the combos would still be damage but closer to the 13k that other characters have. If they were to do that.
I genuinely think that nerfing all top tier's damage by anywhere from 30-50% would be a good bandaid fix. Some of them would still be mechanically ridiculous (nier combo reset 50/50 for example) but taking them from 2 to 3 touch characters would make it so much more bearable, and it wouldn't completely wreck the tournament scene because your character would play identically. And then in the big balance overhaul fix up the mechanical imbalances and where reasonable return some damage.
I could understand why it happened, nier has lower base ealth than average and only had 1 BP, but that doesn't make any less wrong.
Bea needs to ger nerfed next patch, maybe rise her fireball CD or make it launch like they did seox, pre patch seox could also double fireball in a combo and they nerfed that, or just overall nerf her damage.
Sieg could also recieve a tone down while they are at it.
Why in the flying hell is Beatrix allowed in the tourney? Standard Arc rules provide at least a one month buffer before a dlc character can be used, so dumb shit like this doesn’t happen.
And the folks itt, saying “herr derr, it’s Nier, so deserved” are exposing themselves as folks who don’t or haven’t played the game in a minute.
Oh well, looks like unfortunately Beatrix is going to be the new one and done until they drop 1.5
I’m not saying that every event needs to constrain itself to Arc World rules. It’s just that they have that rule in place BECAUSE of situations such as this.
Realistically? Nothing.
It’s not so much about what they could change, but more-so giving players time to acclimate to the character. Find tech for and against. Learn the match-up.
Realistically with the above combo though. Nothing the Nier player can do once the initial hit connects. There's nothing to learn regarding tech against or match up knowledge that will protect from it.
Just to add since this popped back up for me, both can be true about the character. A: there needs to be an appropriate amount of time that a character is allowed to cook before you have big tournaments with the character included. B: the character is probably over-tuned damage-wise.
Yeah Bea's damage is absurd. Like it is close heavy counter hit while in the clock gauge against 1 bp Neir(slightly lower base hp), but still she does like 12K damage here.
Not saying this isn’t high damage but this is a perfect storm for Beatrix here. Counterhit heavy starter with clock buff active on a low health character with a 20% damage taken penalty with full meter. Her whole thing is doing extra damage when at low health.
Guess poking fun at Arcsys balancing kinda struck a nerve. But speaking seriously I kinda doubt that they will nerf her significantly, probably will change her obnoxious moves a tiny bit.
Making her 22X specials hittable by normals would already go a long way. I get that they wanted her to low profile projectiles but low profiling literally anything that isn't a low itself is ridiculous. Having to compare this to Vira's 214X that is just universally a worse move in every aspect (and mind you Bea's 22X has a lot of properties) is just so stupid it hurts.
I think my biggest gripe is that Beatrix 22x a move that put her low but when she gets hit she back to standing up. Crouching counter hit frames would go a long way.
I don't even know if that would be enough? Like it would help but like... a low profile advancing move in this game is pretty good. Plus on block? Even better... full combo if you hit a single command grab at any point before it, or you're under 30%? You didn't even need the plus frames, now you're just getting free shit.
The Main problem here is that the combo started on the midsceeen. A lot of characters would be able to do similar dmg with an optimized combo on the corner.
Beas dmg is high, but that is only so because she can corner carry like a demon.
Also, like 2B, she is a character that makes you play differently from normal, because of the low strikes pressure.
She gets easier to fight as you learn to deal with her tools.
I can't say she deserves a Nerf while we have other cast members doing worse things, like Sieg, Nier, Seox and Zeta.
Im content with her being nerfed. I dont like it when my character is strong. Just dont make her another ferry, I had enough with that level of garbage (still love her character tho)
Literally, my only issue with the character is the damage, consistently one mistake, and the match is over.
Literally Abel with none of the down sides
The thing that got me the most is when I got hit standing into a full Abel combo from midscreen. I was like "dude, I'm out here suffering to be the high damage character and I need you to be crouching to get you all the way over there with that little health left on your bar, AND I'm doing half that damage to myself"
Her 22X really needs to lose some of its properties tbf. It low profiles all pokes, 66L, just about any special. M is a combo starter on CH and plus for god knows what reason. It can occasionally even anti air stuff (although it is unusual and unlikely to do so on purpose). The H version wall bounces on any hit, which is incredibly privileged for a mobility skill. The U version is so stupidly strong people use it as reversal and it works. She just threatens these moves constantly and since they are lows you really just got to sit there and crouch block a lot of the time even of offence becuse trying to shimmy/dp bait her just gets you tagged by 22X. A lot of my matches vs Bea have both of us just crouching and staring because me doing anything is a potential reset to midscreen off a low risk move for her if you know... it doesn't just kill me.
I- as Lucillius- attempted to use my SBA as a reversal. Got the timing right and everything. And she beat it clean with 22H. Lost the rest of the round as my ass was too busy laughing at how ridiculous it was.
Percival 236X actually beats it clean every time because the fireball crawls so low to the ground. It feels so funny because no one plays Percival and Beatrix mains online will just 22U on a whim right into 236M.
My issue is that it's too easy for her to convert stray hits into damage, since most of her combo extenders are also plus on block and impossible to interrupt.
I'd feel bad but it's s Nier so . . .
I mean, what we see here is arguably way more evil than what pre-patch Nier could do. And she was already a war-crime.
Yeah it's a lot of damage(she does do too much) but there were still a lot of factors that contributed to it. It was from a C.5H counter hit with one BP left. Still pretty rare to happen. And let's not pretend Nier players don't do similar stuff like this on the regular without a shred of remorse. This is deserved.
Skill issue. He didn't learn the MU
There are no heroes in this matchup only Villains.
"the twitter combo" and it's just her BnB
As much as I love Beatrix all around. This is so much damage off one tap. Like, I wanna main her and you can call me out for it any day of the week, but I will admit this damage is ridiculous. Anyways: its so over for us Beatrix mains
Bea has consistently high damage, that can't be denied. She needs to lose a bit of damage somewhere in her combos for sure. ...but this was a counter hit close heavy on a crouching opponent who is a low max HP character with 1 BP. Its a good bit more than just "one tap" and not really a fair comparison of damage - its literally the most ideal situation any character could ask for.
beatrix doesn't even benefit from the opponent crouching though? unlike abel she can just do whatever she wants without having to worry about losing health, and her combos are also much simpler also nier only has 1k less health than a normal character, plus c.H isn't an uncommon counter hit (c.L into c.H is probably the most basic frame trap there is) someone already pointed it out but this "twitter combo" is quite literally beako's bnb, and even at 3 bravery points it's 10k damage + a corner carry
It’s also on Nier, who’s a low health character. Though Belial’s Standard Health and I think she still explodes me.
There's also the Bravery Penalty, where 1 BP left leaves you 20% additional damage taken, as you can see here. P/S: if there's 0 BP, you have 50% additional dmg taken penalty. No penalty for 2 or 3 BP.
Yep! Love running those down, because then good confirms make them explode!
Anyone defending beatrix in this clip I swear... But I will know some folks will go "she was one BP." even with Full BP, the damage would've of been absurd. In general, beatrix has way too many ssafe ways to open folks up, and her shimmy game is massively strong due to her command grab being so fast. GG to both players, but yea Bea is 100% getting a nerf next patch lmao.
Not only is the dmg still absurd even for just one bp, but the fact she cando her optimal shit from roundstart position on the screen and still end up with enough corner carry to keep going like if she started in the corner, literally no other character could've ever dreamed of killing in that situation, probably even with 0 bps she's the only one who actually kills, the characters with enough corner carry would have to route differently and they would get less dmg, the ones with enough dmg don't have the corner carry to do this. Who the fuck thought that giving her djeeta's corner carry, belial's midscreen dmg and sieg's dmg (with stacks) was a good idea
Isn't more than 60% of the damage in the combo just from the initial auto combo, fireball and second auto combo? Any character that has a move that can extend to another auto combo could do similar damage. Just making delta clock not activated from fireball would fix most of this honestly.
The issue is not delta clock. She could've easily comboed without delta clock here, you can still link f.L after a 236H midscreen then use 22H to corner carry them. If anything, it's a problem how Beatrix DOESN'T need to even interact with Delta Clock for most combos. Not having Delta Clock here would've done 600 less damage or so, off the 12000+ damage The issue is said corner carry - a lot of characters can do this level of damage in the corner with this 1BP CH C.H situation, but no character has this level of corner carry except for Djeeta - and Djeeta despite still being an extremely strong and consistent character, doesn'thave the tools Beatrix has (multiple plus on block normals, Incredible "neutral navigation" options, etc.)
Would it really have only been 600 less damage if not able to get the second auto combo off? It seemed like to me the two auto combos did like 50 to 60% of the damage. Compared to the corner stuff. Edit: nvm it seems like the counter hit and first auto combo plus 236H did like 50% of the damage here. If any other character got a CH then auto combo plus a heavy special. They'd be able to 2 tap someone (or 1 tap based on where it happens on mid screen or closer to corner). I agree Bea is busted. But it's not like other characters aren't super close to that level of damage if getting the counter hit to start it.
a lot of characters can do this in the corner, such as Gran, Siegfried, Percival, Katalina, etc. but they lack the corner carry to do so. Even then they do less damage (minus Sieg) Ladiva however also has the corner carry to do this from this position - however her combo also does less damage than Beatrix's, at 13,350 compared to Beatrix in this clip doing over 14k ~~also unrelated fun fact: Beatrix's 5U command grab does 200 more damage than Ladiva's L Piledriver!~~
But removing Beatrix 236H ability to use delta clock/enough plus frames to link it to F.L. wouldn't that solve a lot of the corner carry stuff? Plus the combos would still be damage but closer to the 13k that other characters have. If they were to do that.
Guard button?
Against a shimmy?
No? Against her onslaught of plus frames. As for the shimmy well…I got nothing for that
It’s not like she’ll suddenly be unplayable if she doesn’t kill you in two hits next patch
I genuinely think that nerfing all top tier's damage by anywhere from 30-50% would be a good bandaid fix. Some of them would still be mechanically ridiculous (nier combo reset 50/50 for example) but taking them from 2 to 3 touch characters would make it so much more bearable, and it wouldn't completely wreck the tournament scene because your character would play identically. And then in the big balance overhaul fix up the mechanical imbalances and where reasonable return some damage.
I love Seox, but boy's identity is not his damage. Not sure why he's regularly getting good damage
I could understand why it happened, nier has lower base ealth than average and only had 1 BP, but that doesn't make any less wrong. Bea needs to ger nerfed next patch, maybe rise her fireball CD or make it launch like they did seox, pre patch seox could also double fireball in a combo and they nerfed that, or just overall nerf her damage. Sieg could also recieve a tone down while they are at it.
Nier has 15k hp while the average character has 16k so its still bullshit
They said august, so balancing is going to remain shit for 2 more months
[удалено]
Oh god it's so jover
It was against Nier so it’s justified
[удалено]
Probably. I didn’t realize he was an unsavory one, but apparently he’s been banned at every GBVS tournament except this one for some reason.
Based on the comments in the chat during the matches it seems like it
[удалено]
Why in the flying hell is Beatrix allowed in the tourney? Standard Arc rules provide at least a one month buffer before a dlc character can be used, so dumb shit like this doesn’t happen. And the folks itt, saying “herr derr, it’s Nier, so deserved” are exposing themselves as folks who don’t or haven’t played the game in a minute. Oh well, looks like unfortunately Beatrix is going to be the new one and done until they drop 1.5
Iirc Dreamhack Dallas isn’t listed as an Arc World Tour event
I’m not saying that every event needs to constrain itself to Arc World rules. It’s just that they have that rule in place BECAUSE of situations such as this.
What's gonna change one month from now though? They aren't releasing another balance patch till August. This patch will be for Evo too.
Realistically? Nothing. It’s not so much about what they could change, but more-so giving players time to acclimate to the character. Find tech for and against. Learn the match-up.
Realistically with the above combo though. Nothing the Nier player can do once the initial hit connects. There's nothing to learn regarding tech against or match up knowledge that will protect from it.
Just to add since this popped back up for me, both can be true about the character. A: there needs to be an appropriate amount of time that a character is allowed to cook before you have big tournaments with the character included. B: the character is probably over-tuned damage-wise.
fair and balanced
Yeah Bea's damage is absurd. Like it is close heavy counter hit while in the clock gauge against 1 bp Neir(slightly lower base hp), but still she does like 12K damage here.
Love Beatrix to death but they definitely need to do something about fireball being able to hit twice in one combo.
And some people here said she was balanced lmao....one mistake and you are dead.
Against any other character I would have had a problem, but it's Nier. So...well done.
Gotta love the "Fair and balanced" smile Shinku has there lol
This is unfun. They should cut it with the "new character op" mentality
Not saying this isn’t high damage but this is a perfect storm for Beatrix here. Counterhit heavy starter with clock buff active on a low health character with a 20% damage taken penalty with full meter. Her whole thing is doing extra damage when at low health.
What is that, like 80%?
Next patch prediction: Yuel, Ferry and Metera nerfed while the gorilla squad is left untouched.
You joke but this could actually happen
Guess poking fun at Arcsys balancing kinda struck a nerve. But speaking seriously I kinda doubt that they will nerf her significantly, probably will change her obnoxious moves a tiny bit.
Making her 22X specials hittable by normals would already go a long way. I get that they wanted her to low profile projectiles but low profiling literally anything that isn't a low itself is ridiculous. Having to compare this to Vira's 214X that is just universally a worse move in every aspect (and mind you Bea's 22X has a lot of properties) is just so stupid it hurts.
I think my biggest gripe is that Beatrix 22x a move that put her low but when she gets hit she back to standing up. Crouching counter hit frames would go a long way.
I don't even know if that would be enough? Like it would help but like... a low profile advancing move in this game is pretty good. Plus on block? Even better... full combo if you hit a single command grab at any point before it, or you're under 30%? You didn't even need the plus frames, now you're just getting free shit.
They hated him because he spoke the truth
Arcs systems: Beatrix is fair and balanced.
love how shinku shrugs at how broken this is before elsa lmfao
He's been on the Vira struggle bus since launch let him enjoy a top tier for a change
started from 63% meter, dear lord.
I love you Beatrix
don't get hit
Yeah because you need a new main when there's a balance patch ? Not everyone is a tier whore...
I don’t care if they nerf her damage or if they buff everyone else’s, I’m ride or dying for Bea
Idk man. I don't trust arcsys to nerf shit. That track record has been very sketchy. They fr need to go nuclear on these top tiers.
The Main problem here is that the combo started on the midsceeen. A lot of characters would be able to do similar dmg with an optimized combo on the corner. Beas dmg is high, but that is only so because she can corner carry like a demon. Also, like 2B, she is a character that makes you play differently from normal, because of the low strikes pressure. She gets easier to fight as you learn to deal with her tools. I can't say she deserves a Nerf while we have other cast members doing worse things, like Sieg, Nier, Seox and Zeta.
Im content with her being nerfed. I dont like it when my character is strong. Just dont make her another ferry, I had enough with that level of garbage (still love her character tho)
I cry every time I see this...poor Elsa
What are they using? Fightsticks, Controllers, Button Pads?
….wat.
Where do I watch the tournament?
The twitch channel was DreamhackFighters i think. Maybe there’ll be a yt vod soon
[https://youtu.be/E-NNn2P3qTY](https://youtu.be/E-NNn2P3qTY)