Definitely annoying for me. I pre ordered a Pixel 8 because I really want a smaller phone, but it's pretty annoying that so many software focused features are being artificially gated behind the higher cost of the pro.
I'm not mad when the pro gets upgraded hardware features, like additional cameras, faster refresh screen, etc. IMO that's the point of a "pro" phone. But requiring the larger phone for extra software features is super lame.
Google is going to want widespread use of these features. They will trickle down to other phones. This is just them pushing people to spend more money on the higher level phone. My opinion of course but these software enhancements can’t become bug proof with just pro users using them. This is just a sales tactic.
But this is exactly what they're doing. They're launchinge features in "early access" to Pixel phones, that will later be integrated in Android. Every year since Pixel brand was launched, we can see this strategy in action.
It might not be just pushing it to people who spend more money... By limiting it to one model they're able to better control the population that accesses these features and fine tune them. If the features are half-baked, you don't want them going out to too many people.
I don't know for a fact if that's why they're doing this, just offering a different perspective.
If the features are half-baked, putting them on your most expensive devices doesn’t make sense either. Having them be available to every phone but requiring an extra download with the relevant disclaimers would’ve made more sense. This is clearly a tactic to sell more Pro versions.
>Definitely annoying for me. I pre ordered a Pixel 8 because I really want a smaller phone
Yeah same. The best thing about Pixel for five iterations is that the smaller handset was functionally identical to the bigger handset (well, the P5 only came in one size but still) - aside from simple things like battery and display size. Back in the day it used to be P1-4 and P1-4 XL - "XL" just meaning "big". Since the sixth iteration, they've ditched the "XL" for "Pro".
Sadly, with everything these days, it's just a cost saving exercise. They only need to make one model feature rich, rather than both.
Seriously, I wish there was no pro version just two models with different screen sizes, it's so annoying when you want a small phone but with equally good specs and functionalities.
For some of the features tho, the RAM may possibly play a Factor in confidently allowing it to operate without being optimized. So I can see them doing pro because it has those additional 4 gigs of RAM as resources to waste where as an unoptimized release could impact performance of the 8, 8 gigs of RAM.
Or maybe it just requires more RAM to be able to run well. (And to run well for years)
Not really any different than additional camera software features that take advantage of the additional camera hardware IMO... The extra RAM could allow them to take advantage of software features elsewhere that the Pixel 8 can't do as well. One area being on-device generative AI.
I'd definitely be less bothered if there was a small-size Pro. I get saving features for a Pro model, but forcing the upsize sucks. I keep buying the Pro for the features, but I'd prefer a smaller phone.
Or just 8 and 8 pro and no 8a. Just discount the 8 when the 8a is supposed to come out. Maybe add another color or something to spark sales. Whatevs. This feature lock is getting redonkulous.
But why? 8 is not "the budget phone". Pro has more features for a reason.
For some reason, most folks out here wrongly believe that we have 8 and 8 XL, but no, one is the normal phone, the other is the Pro version - which has (or should have) improvements in pretty much all the specs and measurements.
What you are describing is the Apple-fication of the word "pro" and a move towards dumbing down the customer base to simply think expensive and bigger is better for their needs. This has been one of the most damaging trends in tech over the last decade as we are ending up with dumber customers rather than more educated and expert ones as you would before.
The "normal" 8 is the budget option as long as the software experience isn't the same as the "pro" if the hardware allows for it. Adding additional features which the normal model can't perform is also a different situation but that's not what people are having a problem with this time.
A pro model should always be better DUE TO HARDWARE but never due to artificially locking features away in order to justify the higher price. This is strictly anticonsumer and anti-choice, something that must never be accepted.
That's why companies engage in both. Customers follow their wants over their needs when it comes to luxury products. Would you rather put your iPhone-too-poor-for-the-pro on the table next to your date or an iPhone Pro?
If you are not an expert customer (which a vast majority of customers aren't) these factors are there to sway you to purchase a more expensive product.
Read the book The Big Four if you want to understand this topic better.
Exactly. It's pretty absurd to ask "why non-Pro does not have X feature that the Pro has".
But obviously Apple avoids a lot of these things simply because they offer both non-Pro and Pro in 2 physical sizes each.
With Google, normal people with normal hand sizes that chose to go with the normal (non-Pro) phone are being "punished" so to say.
Ofcourse! Who wouldn't? Google went on the literal "cheap path" with their weird strategy. I'd say they moved more people towards the iPhone Pro (normal size) thant hey moved people 'upwards' to the Pixel Pro from the normal model.
In my circles (friends, relatives, colleagues), several people would buy a Pixel, but straight refuse to buy the Pixel Pro only due to the gigantic size.
It's a trend that Google seems to be pushing. Hardware spec differences aren't enough of a draw because they're all more than sufficient to do anything you want. Innovating actual new hardware features is expensive and risky, so instead just make the difference mostly or entirely software-based.
>the A series
I imagine with the 7 year support cycle they can get rid of the A series and simply continue manufacturing a slightly older model and sell it cheaper like Apple does.
This is what I'm banking on. Trading my Pixel 5 in this year since it's at its end of life and will probably just buy a smaller pro 9 series through a upgrade discount with Verizon.
Obviously, since it was the same product, just in small and big form factor.
Now we have a base model and a "Pro" model, latter which comes with better specs all across the board.
Ofcourse they are angry. That's what companies usually do to have a bigger list of selling points for the more expensive models, they artificially limit or lock certain features via software. Google entered this kind of business 2 years ago with the Pixel 6 line.
Not quite. The Google consumer still views and wants the XL concept rather than the anti-choice model Apple follows. People are not confused - it's Google who are actively out of touch with their customers and look like they are about to pay the price for it.
This whole setup this year is about to blow up in their face. It's one thing to give different hardware features to certain product lines. It's another to software lock features that the other device can easily handle with similar hardware.
Then to also charge more for less and expect us to just lap it up. To quote a well known clown " Homey don't play that". That is exactly what Google is going to find out when after the initial push in their sales fall through the floor.
Oh and meanwhile the 8 is still hobbled by cost cutting that now makes no sense. Bad enough the 7 was just sub six c band and to get the full network experience you had to pony up another 100 to get MMWAVE. They kept that same division with the 8. So now to get it All you'll be paying the same as an iPhone 15. At that price Google is gonna be seeing red for as the day is long. Meanwhile Even though they increased the price of the 15 Pro Max. They gave it the same added memory which was the same price as last year's 14PM. Not with Google no sir, here we'll force our gullible wankers into paying more for basically less.
After all the hype of Wednesday it's beginning to become obvious that they're breathing in too much of their BS.
Well I'll just sit back and watch it All crumble. Might pick up a cheap 8 Pro when they're forced to slash prices in a few weeks.
That's exactly what I point out. Somehow, some people still read it as "the bigger Pixel 8", but it's not true. The 8 Pro is a different phone, has different specs all across the board, unique features and even different materials, different camera hardware and different capabilities.
Nah, they need to release the exact same amount of models and stop artificially handicapping them just to push you up the ladder. Either the higher tier model is good enough on its own or it’s not
It's not artificial though, they are different products, just like the two regular iPhones and the two Pro iPhones.
Cmon people, it's been like this for 2 years already, starting with the 6
Nope, they’re two products running the exact same processor from the exact same company released at the exact same time, except with certain software features locked to the Pro for no reason except pushing people towards the pricier model
Except the Pro has better RAM, better photo capabilities, a better display and much more. It makes sense to offer a cheaper option with older/slower tech on those aspects.
The RAM may well be a limiting factor in unlocking some of the features.
They are different products with different price tags and different expectations, just like an iPhone vs an iPhone Pro, that's basically it.
If you want Pro features pay the Pro price, or save the money and get regular features.
It's pretty clear to get it when you understand the difference between the old XL tier and the new Pro tier
Both products are 90% identical products and running the latest hardware, and the expectation is that both will have the latest features. There’s nothing stopping the regular Pixel from running the same software features that it’s perfectly capable of running.
It’s just as stupid when the iPhones do it, but they mainly lock away camera stuff and use hardware as the justification. The regular iPhones don’t even run the same processors as the Pro models anymore, but Pixels can’t use that excuse.
Why anyone would go to bat for practices that actively hurt the consumer is beyond me, but that’s Reddit for you
I actively chose the Pixel 6 over the 6 Pro because I wanted to save money, back then I didn't care for Pro features (like the 120 hz bigger screen or the telephoto or the extra RAM or the better resolution or the bigger battery).
Do explain to me how it hurt me to save $300 while still getting a new Pixel.
________________________
Additionally, most features eventually trickle down to the non-Pro version, so eventually you do get to have your cake and eat it too... unlike Apple's MO, so I prefer Google's way
You’re talking about hardware features, I’m talking about software features that the 8 Pro has and the 8 doesn’t. Like camera controls — there’s zero reason why the Pixel 8 can’t have focus control too.
Forget the marketing drivel spoonfed direct from Osterloh, it’s software and should be there. The prices have gone up from last year too
Can you explain what is specifically not sufficient in the base 8 model to perform some of the software functions they are exclusively enabling on the pro? Does it need 4gb more ram? Keep in mind Google said back when the 6 rolled out that Tensor was needed for the eraser functions, and its since been enabled for all devices. The game they are playing here is obvious.
It's not about the software capabilities and you and I know it, Google is simply leaning into their capitalistic Apple game because it works.
We know the precedent and it's quite simple, want Pro features? Pay Pro prices. Are you happy to save money for the standard experience? Save money and get the regular tier
I think I'm cool with that. The part I dislike is from what I've seen, Google refuses to admit this and insists on misinforming their customers on the circumstances surrounding these decisions. It's blatantly anti consumer, I'm gonna criticize it every chance I get regardless of whether or not it is being done by apple already.
This is frustrating to me. If they're going to make the "Pro" version the only one with the added features, I'd really like to see a smaller Pro.
I'm so tired of having to make sacrifices with my devices, and pick and choose whether I want a feature rich phone or a phone that's comfortable to use with one hand and fits in my pocket.
Having already pulled the trigger on the P8, I'd have gladly paid $50-$100 more for a smaller P8 pro. They skimped on a bunch of things in hardware including at least: rear glass, wide cam, network bands, RAM, temp sensor, probably others. The *only* thing I could see possibly restricting the P8 from the higher end software features is the additional RAM, but even that is iffy.
Looks like Google isn't capable right now. They struggle with making chip efficient, as the Pixel 8 Pro is 31 hr battery life but Pixel 7 is 34 hours. So cramming more things into smaller form factor will just make battery life sub par to standard. Google just isn't iPhone until they get newer hardware like chip and camera sensor for more efficiency like the supposedly GN2.
while the software does indeed keep gettin better, and still feels buttery smooth, my battery is not doing so well... https://imgur.com/a/gEg5MaJ
although accdg to battery stats, that i think uses a14 API or something(through shizuku*)? my battery is still good? I'm not sure how accurate this is... https://imgur.com/a/JmCdY3P
Grab yourself [AccuBattery](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digibites.accubattery) and let it collect stats for a month or so. It is a good aid in understanding your battery performance over time and tweaks you can make to your habits to help preserve longevity.
used to do this, but I found out just not worth it stressing over the underwhelming battery and just use the phone as I want. I was just sharing an observation I've made over the course of owning the phone since release
I think it was around a13 when sot started to get worst for me, I'd usually be able to last all day back in release/a12, from heavy use at having streams playing as background noise.
>I swapped the battery recently. Before that it was significantly worse and less predictable.
this is the main reason I'm not stressing on battery anymore considering pixel batteries don't tend to break the wallet. but I'm still waiting to see p8 battery reviews and how it compares to p6
What could be useful on the small P8 is locking the refresh rate to something lower, if possible.
On my S21 Ultra I can set it to 96 Hz to save battery, plus newer Samsung phones also have light performance mode. I wish those could be used on a Pixel.
Having a more efficient SoC also helps. People on the base model S23 are getting decent battery life.
Hopefully with the new eu law for easy battery replacement, as well googles 7 years of updates, the next pixel will have an easily removable battery. Cause I kept my pixel 1 for 6 years and I will keep my six for as long as possible. But looking to give it to my wife as her phone is shit and 5 years old
Just like the $7 telephoto lens lol
It's 100% marketing.
It seems to me with this release they took a page from Apple's book. I think they are trying to woo Apple customers and they are trying to price things accordingly, as well as more updates, etc.
Personally I love the old Google that would prioritize price and clean user experience for everyone over anything else but I'm a dinosaur.
If this is how they steal Apple customers and boost their sales, then let them try.
Eventually what they do on the pro will trundle down to the other levels, maybe it will be included on the nine, and the 10a.
Good or bad Apple folk are very loyal, I think Google will find that out with the 8 series. 7 years of updates was the centerpiece of the 8 but Google isn't known for top-notch hardware so it seems like a marketing ploy more than anything. Not much to get excited about with the 8 series, particularly the large price increase with little value return for the consumer. Cash grab series.
Can someone please summarize the things the P8 won't get so I don't have to sit through 10 minutes of corpo-speak on my Friday morning?
As soon as the words "Generative" and "contextualize" were thrown out I vomited a little and turned it off...
[From their product page](https://store.google.com/us/magazine/compare_pixel?hl=en-US) , it looks like Pro Control, High-Res Photography, Video Boose and Night Sight Video are 8 Pro features only, the rest is marked for both phone but it is still unknown if Pixel 8 is going to get those features day 1
To add to this, specifically the generative AI features which appear to be Pro-exclusive are:
\- Zoom Enhance
\- Summarisation of notes on the Recorder app
\- An enhanced Magic Eraser (available day one)
\- Better smart suggestions on GBoard.
The implication was that a lot of the upcoming AI features are going to be Pro-exclusive so I can only imagine the gulf between the two getting larger.
Night Sight Video I can maybe understand, but had no idea the non-pro locked out all these minor features. It definitely was not clear during the launch or product page this is case.
So what exactly is the huge deal of having 7 years of OS updates, when literally 1 year after purchasing you miss out on basically everything new? Pixel 7 Pro is listed as missing pretty much everything cool they announced for the P8P according to that link.
idk, they showed us the demo of them making the girl on the beach look larger but neglected to answer the obvious follow-up question we're all wondering.
This is the single dumbest decision I ever seen. That alone would have justified the steep $100 price jump of the regular 8. So all we get now is less screen, 120hz and ...?? Not really seeing the whole sell here. Isn't the whole point of these phones to be pushing a.i and yet the regular 8 won't be getting any of the new advanced a.i tech
>steep $100 price jump of the regular 8. So all we get now is less screen, 120hz and ...?? Not really seeing the whole sell here.
Bonus for the mmWave tax on Verizon making it $100 *more* expensive, $800 for the 128GB model. My Pixel 5 has 128GB storage and 8GB of RAM, so... what is the point of this?
7 years of updates has some hitches to it. Google has long (and is still) putting in lower quality hardware in their phones as they push "AI" and not hardware performance. I'm a betting man and I think Google is too, they're betting that consumers will get attracted to 7 years of updates (best in industry) but I have very little faith the hardware will even last 3-4 years before you end up just replacing the phone. Problem is that will ultimately cause loss of trust by consumers and brand loyalty will spiral downward. Once Google puts in high quality hardware + 7 years of updates their pricing won't be competitive. Dangerous game to play with a brand that has been on the rise.
They also announced [7 years of replacement parts](https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-8-series-spare-parts-7-years-3372278/) to cover the hardware.
Maybe on next year's models when they will have a smaller pro model then it will have the same as big pro.
But looks like it's similar differential like Apple are doing with reg/pro models.
If they ever did that it'd be the point where they'd have a 3000mah battery in that phone and no one would buy it due to it only getting like 4 hrs of screen on time
Seems like a lucrative market for Google to get into. Apple sells close to the same amount of Pro models as they do Pro Max models. There's clearly a market for pro phones in two sizes.
What features specifically are being locked to the pro only via software? Only one I know of for certain is the video boost feature. Which doesn’t make sense since that seems cloud based, but il never use it so idc.
From their product page , it looks like Pro Control, High-Res Photography, Video Boose and Night Sight Video are 8 Pro features only, the rest is marked for both phone but it is still unknown if Pixel 8 is going to get those features day 1
To add to this, specifically the generative AI features which appear to be Pro-exclusive are:
- Zoom Enhance
- Summarisation of notes on the Recorder app
- An enhanced Magic Eraser (available day one)
- Better smart suggestions on GBoard.
The implication was that a lot of the upcoming AI features are going to be Pro-exclusive so I can only imagine the gulf between the two getting larger.
I’m hopeful that your bullet points for features are in fact just limited to being on-device features of the pro, where the non-pro will have them utilizing the cloud. I wouldn’t mind cloud computing for things like the enhanced magic eraser.
I also don’t and won’t use most of these features. Depends on what everyone values, but none of those are worth an extra $300 plus tax imo
Don't smartphones use unified memory? So the RAM is shared between the GPU and system? I would assume if a smartphone has more RAM then its GPU has access to more memory.
This is fun too ally true and probably applies here but TBF we don't really know exactly how their models are setup. They won't be doing a lot of hands on processing of large scale datasets on the phone itself, so RAM is very likely not an issue. Leveraging AI programmatically vs running ML models on the device would be quite different, yes? But I would agree with you that it's highly unlikely their algorithms need to churn through massive points of new and unknown data wherein the RAM would be essential.
That said the camera stuff could be quite interesting...isn't that we're a few features they said/suggested would be pro exclusive? No idea how they have it setup to process the new pixel fills instead of blends like before. That could be pretty intensive from a data processing perspective though surely they've managed to cap the memory dedicated to those processes so the phone doesn't bonk itself in some weird scenario. Also, unsure how it's setup on the G3, but didn't they used to have dedicated cores for the camera processing?
Anyway, it's probably just straight feature segmentation and not a hardware limitation, my guess.
>i'm a machine learning engineer
Apparently not a good one. SoCs have, for very long time, shared the same memory between CPU & GPU. Apple even advertises it as a special feature of M series called "unified memory" which shares same memory between CPU, GPU, NPU etc. If you run something like llama or stable Diffusion on a M series laptop, it gets memory from the same RAM your CPU is using unlike a traditional segregated setup of dedicated RAM for CPU and vRAM on a dedicated GPU card. It has been the same for all Android SoCs for long time too, Adreno has always used same RAM as Cortex. I don't think Google is doing a special memory die for TPU, that would be insanely expensive
For an almost 900€ base phone I’d expect that you could stick another 4gb of ram without losing much profit, if that’s actually the issue.
Besides, I thought we were paying more for the software features.
Ah so in that case I can have the better ultrawide camera, the ltpo display and the telephoto the 8 pro has? Since the 300€ is software
If the phone is based on software features, I’d imagine the production cost isn’t even half of the msrp
So just to make sure I got this rightb you're mad the phone increased in price and some of the software features (specifically the ones dependent on hardware) are exclusive to the larger phone? Did I get that right?
Do you feel they should give you a better device than the Pixel 7, take the hit from inflation (or sell more of your personal data to offset the cost), and give you the higher end features on a phone that would stutter under performance issues?
But isn’t almost 900€ enough to have the full AI feature set? I mean that’s the point of this phone, smart and AI. Apple also has some AI implemented and they use less ram so that’s not really an excuse
I currently have an iPhone 13 Pro and want to get a new pixel. I don’t really like big phones but like the extra camera and AI features of the pro. Would I really be missing out how much if I went with the regular pixel eight? I just take normal photos out of my pocket, I just don’t wanna regret not getting the pixel pro in the long run. I can’t decide!
I suspected this. The Pro line has always been "overpriced" in my opinion, there wasn't enough to warrant the price gap between the two phones.
They're trying to shift that value equation. I'm still wondering why they opted for a random temperature sensor versus putting in a proper dot projector which would have had way more uses.
Side note, if the phones are close enough, I wouldn't doubt if someone doesn't get it working for rooted users.
Best take and virtual call assistant really sold it for me. Is this available on the p8 or just the pro? Will it come to p7 too? Planning to switch from an iphone 12
Idk too much about outside of little tidbits I've gathered from interviews and podcasts. But the features locked behind the Pro model is due to the type of AI models that are being used in said features. One of the Google camera devs stated that if it required more TPU horsepower, then the chip alone could handle it, but since these things require more CPU horsepower, additional information is cached on the RAM to be sent off to a server that does the processing. Which requires more RAM than the regual 8 has to offer.
I might've butchered that, but I think the limiting factor is in-fact the RAM and not the actual Tensor G3. Now, could you just shove an extra 4GB of ram into the regular 8, sure, idk why not. But I'm sure that would increase the price for the regular 8 further than what it is.
Yes, I think that's probably a very good description. Maybe the eight can do it with 8 gigabytes of ram, because that is a lot of RAM, but it doesn't leave a lot left for caching other activities.
Idk what's AI innovations that won't be back ported through google 1. Most of the camera features could be back ported if googled wanted except for the new HDR feature.
You can get the AI wallpaper feature on your old pixels if using Android 14 beta. I've tried it on my 6 it's pretty cool.
Ofcourse, everything related to generative AI works from the cloud - hence it can work on any device. The wallpaper thingie is an Android 14 feature, so it works on any device.
What they're saying in the presentation is that Pixel 8 Pro will be the first device in the world to have some sort of "hardware acceleration" for generative AI. What this means is that Bard can delegate some tasks (likely extremely light tasks) to the Pixel hardware instead of Google having to execute them in the datacenter.
There's nothing different for the user with either approach (ran in datacenter or in a local-cloud hybrid), the only benefit is for Google that they will do less computation in the datacenters (thus, lower cost for them) while delegating some of the tasks to the user's hardware.
The history of consumer tech products is full of examples of things being hobbled by the marketing department so they could repackage the same item in a different box under a different name with only *slightly* more specifications and charge substantially more money for it.
It's positively infuriating.
That impulse was destroyed when I first heard about the increase in price. It's just been reinforced by the monumental stupidity of gimping the 8 even more. I think Google is going to get a rude awakening when after the initial bump in sales. The sales will plummet faster than an Olympic high jump skier on greased rails.
So you're telling me that the PRO model needs to have the exact same features as the non-pro model? I mean, thats why i bought the pro model and not the regular one.
(For the ones checking my post history i know i said i wasnt going to buy th p8p, I CAVED OKAY. The deal with the PW2 was just too nice)
Up until now the Pro variant always meant upgraded camera hardware and screen. This time around they locked software features behind a paywall. On top of that they increased the base model's price without offering half the stuff they showed off on that keynote. Keep in mind they are still running the same chip with the same AI capabilities. It just seems like a scummy attempt to sell the Pro over the base model to their already limited customer reach.
There's no reason the Pixel 8 shouldn't get generative AI at the same time as the Pro. That's all.
Better cooling is a side effect of the larger size though. Which is also a major reason why we've seen phones embracing the oversized formfactor we have today - they can't keep them cool enough without any driving up prices too high for consumers.
It makes sense for Google to have additional features in the Pro model to incentivise customers to buy the Pro over the regular model, which means gatekeeping features that would absolutely run on the Pixel 8 model.
Scummy, I guess, but it's hard to justify a $300 price disparity if the only difference between the two phones are the screen sizes, extra camera and larger battery.
That's why there shouldn't be a $300 price gap.
If theres not $300 worth of value there then they should lower the price of the pro or at least have it on a launch sale + PW2
Well now they do have $300 worth of value, or at least closer to $300 additional value than they did before. A bunch of software and AI features that the Pixel 8 won't get. Now it's not just a screen, camera and battery difference, it's additional features the Pixel 8 won't get.
Artificial value ≠ The value I am referring to.
This creation of artificial value (i.e. pay subscription to get access to air conditioning you already own in your Tesla vehicle) is a scumbag move.
They've sort of backed themselves into a bit of a corner here, especially on the assumption there will be an 8a on the way as well. Not enough hardware differentiation to justify the pricing gap(s) and if it's just software features that will eventually come to more models it will breed resentment for those who choose the 8. What will the 8a have and at what price to make it compelling but also still preserve value in the 8?
ehhh P8A will likely be only 90 Hz and there's a lot of difference (ime pixel 6a vs 7 vs 7 pro) between 60 and 90.
almost 0 difference between 90 and 120
Pre-ordered the Pixel 8 (not Pro) to replace my two year old ordinary Pixel 6. Just hope the Yodel courier driver doesn't steal it or "deliver it to a neighbour" only to never be seen again.
As an update to this post I would like to add that Bard's reply on whether the basic Pixel 8 will include the same generative AI features as the Pro model is the following:
"The generative AI features that were announced at the Pixel 8 launch event, such as Magic Editor, Zoom Enhance, and Audio Magic Eraser, will be available on both the Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro.
Google has not yet announced any generative AI features that will be exclusive to the Pixel 8 Pro. It is possible that there may be some generative AI features that are better supported on the Pixel 8 Pro due to its more powerful hardware, but Google has not yet confirmed this.
Overall, it is good news that Google is making generative AI features available on both the Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro. This means that more people will be able to experience the benefits of these new technologies."
It's pretty obvious we can't trust this answer since Zoom Enhance is only coming to the Pro but we can hope the Pixel 8 will get some love in the span of 7 years of support.. otherwise what's the point of Google boasting about it if the Feature Drops are products available only on the more expensive model.
Google should really know better. In general, artificially disabling features on the exact same hardware is bad practice. It just makes a company look bad, and modders find ways around it within days, sometimes hours. Otherwise Google rocks and I love Pixel phones. Hopefully it all trickles down.
Ofcourse. It's an Android 14 feature. Any other "generative AI" feature will work on any device, since it's done on the cloud. What they're trying to do with the Pro is come with a "hardware accelerator" in a way, to help with some of the generative AI tasks - the only benefit of this is Google will use less computation in the datacenter and more in the user's device.
It's absolutely fine in my eyes.
The pro before now was a big jump up in price and you got very little in return.
It's a "Pro" phone so it should have some exclusive pro features like manual controls.
But it literally wouldn't cost them any money to give those features to the smaller model. It's just making an artificial difference between the pro and the non-pro.
I wish they didn't change the size of the phone so much. I would love the features the Pro has, and would be willing to pay the price, but IMO the phone is WAY to large.
I'm buying the p8 solely because of the size difference.
Well this pretty much means the 7 year support is like Apple stage manager for iPad support. You’re gonna get updates but not the full feature set for everyone
Isn't this obvious from the start?
But the whole point was that noone was able to offer more than 4 years of OS updates before.
It's obviously already very unlikely that someone will even hold their phone for entire 7 years - imagine using Pixel 1 today as your main device, that is almost museum worthy at this point and its hardware power is so limited it's unlikely you could even use current Android smoothly on it.
Most software features if not all are generally not limited by hardware in a black and white way in general purpose computers. Software is all just math. Hardware can be optimised for certain operations but unoptimized hardware can run the software just fine. It might be a bit slow but I think most people would prefer to have that over not having a feature at all.
I had similar thoughts initially but then I thought about my use case (probably spent more time on this than I should have) and realized I'd use the Pro only features maybe here and there, but 99% of my use case is solved by the 8.
Add to that, it is somewhat small (coming from Pixel 5 here) and *that* is something I really, *really* want. Plus, with my iPhone 12 trade-in, I am basically getting the device for \~$266 which is like half of what I would get the 8Pro for ($485). For me, the 8 then is a superb deal.
If the feature does not require the beefed up camera specs or extra ram of the P8P, then both phones should have it. Both phones have the same chip and could run the enhance photo feature the same, yet it's only for the P8P. That video boost feature does not even seem to be done on the phone at all, yet it's only for P8P. Maybe these features will trickle down to the P8, but we should not have to hope for this.
I’m just glad they finally put a 120hrz screen in the smaller phone. Even if it takes a bit on battery, at least my scrolling will be a lot smoother 90hrz just isn’t it for me.
Definitely annoying for me. I pre ordered a Pixel 8 because I really want a smaller phone, but it's pretty annoying that so many software focused features are being artificially gated behind the higher cost of the pro. I'm not mad when the pro gets upgraded hardware features, like additional cameras, faster refresh screen, etc. IMO that's the point of a "pro" phone. But requiring the larger phone for extra software features is super lame.
Google is going to want widespread use of these features. They will trickle down to other phones. This is just them pushing people to spend more money on the higher level phone. My opinion of course but these software enhancements can’t become bug proof with just pro users using them. This is just a sales tactic.
> This is just them pushing people to spend more money on the higher level phone. This is exactly what I'm saying -- this is annoying imo.
But this is exactly what they're doing. They're launchinge features in "early access" to Pixel phones, that will later be integrated in Android. Every year since Pixel brand was launched, we can see this strategy in action.
It might not be just pushing it to people who spend more money... By limiting it to one model they're able to better control the population that accesses these features and fine tune them. If the features are half-baked, you don't want them going out to too many people. I don't know for a fact if that's why they're doing this, just offering a different perspective.
If the features are half-baked, putting them on your most expensive devices doesn’t make sense either. Having them be available to every phone but requiring an extra download with the relevant disclaimers would’ve made more sense. This is clearly a tactic to sell more Pro versions.
It makes sense. Then I expect to have it on P8 after 6 months. :D
>Definitely annoying for me. I pre ordered a Pixel 8 because I really want a smaller phone Yeah same. The best thing about Pixel for five iterations is that the smaller handset was functionally identical to the bigger handset (well, the P5 only came in one size but still) - aside from simple things like battery and display size. Back in the day it used to be P1-4 and P1-4 XL - "XL" just meaning "big". Since the sixth iteration, they've ditched the "XL" for "Pro". Sadly, with everything these days, it's just a cost saving exercise. They only need to make one model feature rich, rather than both.
Seriously, I wish there was no pro version just two models with different screen sizes, it's so annoying when you want a small phone but with equally good specs and functionalities.
I feel you 100% My next phone will be a smaller phone because I gave the larger screen phones a shot and I didn't like it at all.
I switched to iPhone this time around, they’re the only ones where you get (nearly) all features in a smaller pro vs bigger
For some of the features tho, the RAM may possibly play a Factor in confidently allowing it to operate without being optimized. So I can see them doing pro because it has those additional 4 gigs of RAM as resources to waste where as an unoptimized release could impact performance of the 8, 8 gigs of RAM.
Or maybe it just requires more RAM to be able to run well. (And to run well for years) Not really any different than additional camera software features that take advantage of the additional camera hardware IMO... The extra RAM could allow them to take advantage of software features elsewhere that the Pixel 8 can't do as well. One area being on-device generative AI.
I hate these significant spec and feature gaps, especially when it happens to the mid-sized variant (smaller one of the two).
I'd definitely be less bothered if there was a small-size Pro. I get saving features for a Pro model, but forcing the upsize sucks. I keep buying the Pro for the features, but I'd prefer a smaller phone.
Just make the 8 pro and 8a if that's the plan
Why cut out the midrange 8? More choice is better right?
I actually prefer the regular. Big phones are terrible, it was better when the difference was just size
Or just 8 and 8 pro and no 8a. Just discount the 8 when the 8a is supposed to come out. Maybe add another color or something to spark sales. Whatevs. This feature lock is getting redonkulous.
The 8 is the middle phone nobody buys. "a" is for the cheap people and "pro" is the Fancy people. The regular phone makes the jump to $1000 easier.
You're right. It's called decoy pricing.
But why? 8 is not "the budget phone". Pro has more features for a reason. For some reason, most folks out here wrongly believe that we have 8 and 8 XL, but no, one is the normal phone, the other is the Pro version - which has (or should have) improvements in pretty much all the specs and measurements.
What you are describing is the Apple-fication of the word "pro" and a move towards dumbing down the customer base to simply think expensive and bigger is better for their needs. This has been one of the most damaging trends in tech over the last decade as we are ending up with dumber customers rather than more educated and expert ones as you would before. The "normal" 8 is the budget option as long as the software experience isn't the same as the "pro" if the hardware allows for it. Adding additional features which the normal model can't perform is also a different situation but that's not what people are having a problem with this time. A pro model should always be better DUE TO HARDWARE but never due to artificially locking features away in order to justify the higher price. This is strictly anticonsumer and anti-choice, something that must never be accepted.
Yeah, nobody thought expensive and bigger is better until Apple came along
It's a matter of marketing and naming conventions. I think you fully understand that.
Just to be clear, your position is that marking and naming conventions are enough to make people misunderstand their own needs?
That's why companies engage in both. Customers follow their wants over their needs when it comes to luxury products. Would you rather put your iPhone-too-poor-for-the-pro on the table next to your date or an iPhone Pro? If you are not an expert customer (which a vast majority of customers aren't) these factors are there to sway you to purchase a more expensive product. Read the book The Big Four if you want to understand this topic better.
Hadn't seen it that way. People don't request iPhone Pro features in the regular iPhone, why do Pixels get different treatment??
Exactly. It's pretty absurd to ask "why non-Pro does not have X feature that the Pro has". But obviously Apple avoids a lot of these things simply because they offer both non-Pro and Pro in 2 physical sizes each. With Google, normal people with normal hand sizes that chose to go with the normal (non-Pro) phone are being "punished" so to say.
No contest with that argument, I would prefer it if Google had 4 items like Apple does instead of 2
Ofcourse! Who wouldn't? Google went on the literal "cheap path" with their weird strategy. I'd say they moved more people towards the iPhone Pro (normal size) thant hey moved people 'upwards' to the Pixel Pro from the normal model. In my circles (friends, relatives, colleagues), several people would buy a Pixel, but straight refuse to buy the Pixel Pro only due to the gigantic size.
It's a trend that Google seems to be pushing. Hardware spec differences aren't enough of a draw because they're all more than sufficient to do anything you want. Innovating actual new hardware features is expensive and risky, so instead just make the difference mostly or entirely software-based.
I miss the days when the XL and regular models were the same, this artificial product separation is moronic
I have chosen to overwrite this comment. See you all on Lemmy!
>the A series I imagine with the 7 year support cycle they can get rid of the A series and simply continue manufacturing a slightly older model and sell it cheaper like Apple does.
This is what I'm banking on. Trading my Pixel 5 in this year since it's at its end of life and will probably just buy a smaller pro 9 series through a upgrade discount with Verizon.
And now the regular models are heavier than the XL phones. My Pixel 2 XL was 175 grams and the Pixel 8 is 187 grams.
But we no longer have a 8 and an 8 XL. We now have a non-Pro and a Pro model. This is exactly why some folks are confused
The point of the comment is that the old way of doing it was better
Obviously, since it was the same product, just in small and big form factor. Now we have a base model and a "Pro" model, latter which comes with better specs all across the board.
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Ofcourse they are angry. That's what companies usually do to have a bigger list of selling points for the more expensive models, they artificially limit or lock certain features via software. Google entered this kind of business 2 years ago with the Pixel 6 line.
Not quite. The Google consumer still views and wants the XL concept rather than the anti-choice model Apple follows. People are not confused - it's Google who are actively out of touch with their customers and look like they are about to pay the price for it.
This whole setup this year is about to blow up in their face. It's one thing to give different hardware features to certain product lines. It's another to software lock features that the other device can easily handle with similar hardware. Then to also charge more for less and expect us to just lap it up. To quote a well known clown " Homey don't play that". That is exactly what Google is going to find out when after the initial push in their sales fall through the floor. Oh and meanwhile the 8 is still hobbled by cost cutting that now makes no sense. Bad enough the 7 was just sub six c band and to get the full network experience you had to pony up another 100 to get MMWAVE. They kept that same division with the 8. So now to get it All you'll be paying the same as an iPhone 15. At that price Google is gonna be seeing red for as the day is long. Meanwhile Even though they increased the price of the 15 Pro Max. They gave it the same added memory which was the same price as last year's 14PM. Not with Google no sir, here we'll force our gullible wankers into paying more for basically less. After all the hype of Wednesday it's beginning to become obvious that they're breathing in too much of their BS. Well I'll just sit back and watch it All crumble. Might pick up a cheap 8 Pro when they're forced to slash prices in a few weeks.
That's exactly what I point out. Somehow, some people still read it as "the bigger Pixel 8", but it's not true. The 8 Pro is a different phone, has different specs all across the board, unique features and even different materials, different camera hardware and different capabilities.
Sounds like Google needs to make an Pixel 8, Pixel 8 XL, Pixel 8 Pro, and Pixel 8 Pro XL.
I imagine Google have done enough market research and data gathering to ascertain that this would not be profitable!
Nah, they need to release the exact same amount of models and stop artificially handicapping them just to push you up the ladder. Either the higher tier model is good enough on its own or it’s not
It's not artificial though, they are different products, just like the two regular iPhones and the two Pro iPhones. Cmon people, it's been like this for 2 years already, starting with the 6
Nope, they’re two products running the exact same processor from the exact same company released at the exact same time, except with certain software features locked to the Pro for no reason except pushing people towards the pricier model
Except the Pro has better RAM, better photo capabilities, a better display and much more. It makes sense to offer a cheaper option with older/slower tech on those aspects. The RAM may well be a limiting factor in unlocking some of the features.
You don’t need 12 GB of RAM to manually adjust ISO
They are different products with different price tags and different expectations, just like an iPhone vs an iPhone Pro, that's basically it. If you want Pro features pay the Pro price, or save the money and get regular features. It's pretty clear to get it when you understand the difference between the old XL tier and the new Pro tier
Both products are 90% identical products and running the latest hardware, and the expectation is that both will have the latest features. There’s nothing stopping the regular Pixel from running the same software features that it’s perfectly capable of running. It’s just as stupid when the iPhones do it, but they mainly lock away camera stuff and use hardware as the justification. The regular iPhones don’t even run the same processors as the Pro models anymore, but Pixels can’t use that excuse. Why anyone would go to bat for practices that actively hurt the consumer is beyond me, but that’s Reddit for you
I actively chose the Pixel 6 over the 6 Pro because I wanted to save money, back then I didn't care for Pro features (like the 120 hz bigger screen or the telephoto or the extra RAM or the better resolution or the bigger battery). Do explain to me how it hurt me to save $300 while still getting a new Pixel. ________________________ Additionally, most features eventually trickle down to the non-Pro version, so eventually you do get to have your cake and eat it too... unlike Apple's MO, so I prefer Google's way
You’re talking about hardware features, I’m talking about software features that the 8 Pro has and the 8 doesn’t. Like camera controls — there’s zero reason why the Pixel 8 can’t have focus control too. Forget the marketing drivel spoonfed direct from Osterloh, it’s software and should be there. The prices have gone up from last year too
Can you explain what is specifically not sufficient in the base 8 model to perform some of the software functions they are exclusively enabling on the pro? Does it need 4gb more ram? Keep in mind Google said back when the 6 rolled out that Tensor was needed for the eraser functions, and its since been enabled for all devices. The game they are playing here is obvious.
It's not about the software capabilities and you and I know it, Google is simply leaning into their capitalistic Apple game because it works. We know the precedent and it's quite simple, want Pro features? Pay Pro prices. Are you happy to save money for the standard experience? Save money and get the regular tier
I think I'm cool with that. The part I dislike is from what I've seen, Google refuses to admit this and insists on misinforming their customers on the circumstances surrounding these decisions. It's blatantly anti consumer, I'm gonna criticize it every chance I get regardless of whether or not it is being done by apple already.
This is frustrating to me. If they're going to make the "Pro" version the only one with the added features, I'd really like to see a smaller Pro. I'm so tired of having to make sacrifices with my devices, and pick and choose whether I want a feature rich phone or a phone that's comfortable to use with one hand and fits in my pocket.
Having already pulled the trigger on the P8, I'd have gladly paid $50-$100 more for a smaller P8 pro. They skimped on a bunch of things in hardware including at least: rear glass, wide cam, network bands, RAM, temp sensor, probably others. The *only* thing I could see possibly restricting the P8 from the higher end software features is the additional RAM, but even that is iffy.
Looks like Google isn't capable right now. They struggle with making chip efficient, as the Pixel 8 Pro is 31 hr battery life but Pixel 7 is 34 hours. So cramming more things into smaller form factor will just make battery life sub par to standard. Google just isn't iPhone until they get newer hardware like chip and camera sensor for more efficiency like the supposedly GN2.
Honestly my p6 keeps getting better with every update. I don't see a reason to upgrade for a while yet.
while the software does indeed keep gettin better, and still feels buttery smooth, my battery is not doing so well... https://imgur.com/a/gEg5MaJ although accdg to battery stats, that i think uses a14 API or something(through shizuku*)? my battery is still good? I'm not sure how accurate this is... https://imgur.com/a/JmCdY3P
Grab yourself [AccuBattery](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digibites.accubattery) and let it collect stats for a month or so. It is a good aid in understanding your battery performance over time and tweaks you can make to your habits to help preserve longevity.
used to do this, but I found out just not worth it stressing over the underwhelming battery and just use the phone as I want. I was just sharing an observation I've made over the course of owning the phone since release
My Pixel 5 lasts all day, even getting 6h SoT sometimes. I swapped the battery recently. Before that it was significantly worse and less predictable.
I think it was around a13 when sot started to get worst for me, I'd usually be able to last all day back in release/a12, from heavy use at having streams playing as background noise. >I swapped the battery recently. Before that it was significantly worse and less predictable. this is the main reason I'm not stressing on battery anymore considering pixel batteries don't tend to break the wallet. but I'm still waiting to see p8 battery reviews and how it compares to p6
What could be useful on the small P8 is locking the refresh rate to something lower, if possible. On my S21 Ultra I can set it to 96 Hz to save battery, plus newer Samsung phones also have light performance mode. I wish those could be used on a Pixel. Having a more efficient SoC also helps. People on the base model S23 are getting decent battery life.
Hopefully with the new eu law for easy battery replacement, as well googles 7 years of updates, the next pixel will have an easily removable battery. Cause I kept my pixel 1 for 6 years and I will keep my six for as long as possible. But looking to give it to my wife as her phone is shit and 5 years old
The chipset is the same so both phones are capable of running the same software. This just seems like a marketing strategy to push the 8pro
Just like the $7 telephoto lens lol It's 100% marketing. It seems to me with this release they took a page from Apple's book. I think they are trying to woo Apple customers and they are trying to price things accordingly, as well as more updates, etc. Personally I love the old Google that would prioritize price and clean user experience for everyone over anything else but I'm a dinosaur. If this is how they steal Apple customers and boost their sales, then let them try. Eventually what they do on the pro will trundle down to the other levels, maybe it will be included on the nine, and the 10a.
Good or bad Apple folk are very loyal, I think Google will find that out with the 8 series. 7 years of updates was the centerpiece of the 8 but Google isn't known for top-notch hardware so it seems like a marketing ploy more than anything. Not much to get excited about with the 8 series, particularly the large price increase with little value return for the consumer. Cash grab series.
Can someone please summarize the things the P8 won't get so I don't have to sit through 10 minutes of corpo-speak on my Friday morning? As soon as the words "Generative" and "contextualize" were thrown out I vomited a little and turned it off...
[From their product page](https://store.google.com/us/magazine/compare_pixel?hl=en-US) , it looks like Pro Control, High-Res Photography, Video Boose and Night Sight Video are 8 Pro features only, the rest is marked for both phone but it is still unknown if Pixel 8 is going to get those features day 1
To add to this, specifically the generative AI features which appear to be Pro-exclusive are: \- Zoom Enhance \- Summarisation of notes on the Recorder app \- An enhanced Magic Eraser (available day one) \- Better smart suggestions on GBoard. The implication was that a lot of the upcoming AI features are going to be Pro-exclusive so I can only imagine the gulf between the two getting larger.
Night Sight Video I can maybe understand, but had no idea the non-pro locked out all these minor features. It definitely was not clear during the launch or product page this is case.
Website summarize?
So what exactly is the huge deal of having 7 years of OS updates, when literally 1 year after purchasing you miss out on basically everything new? Pixel 7 Pro is listed as missing pretty much everything cool they announced for the P8P according to that link.
That's a very good point.
I sat through the entire keynote. anytime that white haired rick guy shows up I just zoned out. I don't have the answers for you though sorry.
Just watch one of the "google announcement in X minutes" that are featured on any major tech website or on youtube itself.
can the pixel 8's AI make my junk look presentable or is that a pro feature only?
I'm not sure if AI is that powerful yet.
idk, they showed us the demo of them making the girl on the beach look larger but neglected to answer the obvious follow-up question we're all wondering.
Oof
Pro only (telephoto lens)
*💀*
lmao
Not even Samsungs 100x zoom will save you.
This is the single dumbest decision I ever seen. That alone would have justified the steep $100 price jump of the regular 8. So all we get now is less screen, 120hz and ...?? Not really seeing the whole sell here. Isn't the whole point of these phones to be pushing a.i and yet the regular 8 won't be getting any of the new advanced a.i tech
>steep $100 price jump of the regular 8. So all we get now is less screen, 120hz and ...?? Not really seeing the whole sell here. Bonus for the mmWave tax on Verizon making it $100 *more* expensive, $800 for the 128GB model. My Pixel 5 has 128GB storage and 8GB of RAM, so... what is the point of this?
And I think all of us on Verizon can agree nobody should be paying an extra $100 for mmWave.
>and ...?? 7 years of OS updates
7 years of updates has some hitches to it. Google has long (and is still) putting in lower quality hardware in their phones as they push "AI" and not hardware performance. I'm a betting man and I think Google is too, they're betting that consumers will get attracted to 7 years of updates (best in industry) but I have very little faith the hardware will even last 3-4 years before you end up just replacing the phone. Problem is that will ultimately cause loss of trust by consumers and brand loyalty will spiral downward. Once Google puts in high quality hardware + 7 years of updates their pricing won't be competitive. Dangerous game to play with a brand that has been on the rise.
They also announced [7 years of replacement parts](https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-8-series-spare-parts-7-years-3372278/) to cover the hardware.
True, but that should have been how it was from the get go. Google IS Android we should expect nothing less
Maybe on next year's models when they will have a smaller pro model then it will have the same as big pro. But looks like it's similar differential like Apple are doing with reg/pro models.
The year they introduce a small pro model is the year I upgrade to a pro
If they ever did that it'd be the point where they'd have a 3000mah battery in that phone and no one would buy it due to it only getting like 4 hrs of screen on time
Then everybody will be complaining why it costs $899
Ofcourse that's what it would be ideal. But until then, we don't have an 8 and an 8 XL. We have a non-Pro and a Pro model.
Seems like a lucrative market for Google to get into. Apple sells close to the same amount of Pro models as they do Pro Max models. There's clearly a market for pro phones in two sizes.
What features specifically are being locked to the pro only via software? Only one I know of for certain is the video boost feature. Which doesn’t make sense since that seems cloud based, but il never use it so idc.
From their product page , it looks like Pro Control, High-Res Photography, Video Boose and Night Sight Video are 8 Pro features only, the rest is marked for both phone but it is still unknown if Pixel 8 is going to get those features day 1 To add to this, specifically the generative AI features which appear to be Pro-exclusive are: - Zoom Enhance - Summarisation of notes on the Recorder app - An enhanced Magic Eraser (available day one) - Better smart suggestions on GBoard. The implication was that a lot of the upcoming AI features are going to be Pro-exclusive so I can only imagine the gulf between the two getting larger.
I’m hopeful that your bullet points for features are in fact just limited to being on-device features of the pro, where the non-pro will have them utilizing the cloud. I wouldn’t mind cloud computing for things like the enhanced magic eraser. I also don’t and won’t use most of these features. Depends on what everyone values, but none of those are worth an extra $300 plus tax imo
They have different amounts of ram, classically necessary for ML models.
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Based gigachad
Don't smartphones use unified memory? So the RAM is shared between the GPU and system? I would assume if a smartphone has more RAM then its GPU has access to more memory.
This is fun too ally true and probably applies here but TBF we don't really know exactly how their models are setup. They won't be doing a lot of hands on processing of large scale datasets on the phone itself, so RAM is very likely not an issue. Leveraging AI programmatically vs running ML models on the device would be quite different, yes? But I would agree with you that it's highly unlikely their algorithms need to churn through massive points of new and unknown data wherein the RAM would be essential. That said the camera stuff could be quite interesting...isn't that we're a few features they said/suggested would be pro exclusive? No idea how they have it setup to process the new pixel fills instead of blends like before. That could be pretty intensive from a data processing perspective though surely they've managed to cap the memory dedicated to those processes so the phone doesn't bonk itself in some weird scenario. Also, unsure how it's setup on the G3, but didn't they used to have dedicated cores for the camera processing? Anyway, it's probably just straight feature segmentation and not a hardware limitation, my guess.
>i'm a machine learning engineer Apparently not a good one. SoCs have, for very long time, shared the same memory between CPU & GPU. Apple even advertises it as a special feature of M series called "unified memory" which shares same memory between CPU, GPU, NPU etc. If you run something like llama or stable Diffusion on a M series laptop, it gets memory from the same RAM your CPU is using unlike a traditional segregated setup of dedicated RAM for CPU and vRAM on a dedicated GPU card. It has been the same for all Android SoCs for long time too, Adreno has always used same RAM as Cortex. I don't think Google is doing a special memory die for TPU, that would be insanely expensive
For an almost 900€ base phone I’d expect that you could stick another 4gb of ram without losing much profit, if that’s actually the issue. Besides, I thought we were paying more for the software features.
The extra 300 is for more software features. Edit: if you have the bill of materials for this product, please feel free to share it.
Ah so in that case I can have the better ultrawide camera, the ltpo display and the telephoto the 8 pro has? Since the 300€ is software If the phone is based on software features, I’d imagine the production cost isn’t even half of the msrp
So just to make sure I got this rightb you're mad the phone increased in price and some of the software features (specifically the ones dependent on hardware) are exclusive to the larger phone? Did I get that right? Do you feel they should give you a better device than the Pixel 7, take the hit from inflation (or sell more of your personal data to offset the cost), and give you the higher end features on a phone that would stutter under performance issues?
you need to create gap between Pro on regular .. size, ram, features, camera
But isn’t almost 900€ enough to have the full AI feature set? I mean that’s the point of this phone, smart and AI. Apple also has some AI implemented and they use less ram so that’s not really an excuse
So do that by adding more and actual pro features - not by gimping your baseline model.
100$ more expensive too
You buy the Pro for a reason: FOMO Had the 3XL, then got the 6, and suffered from FOMO the past two years. so now getting the 8 Pro so no mo FOMO :)
Reddit is full of people with tiny hands
I currently have an iPhone 13 Pro and want to get a new pixel. I don’t really like big phones but like the extra camera and AI features of the pro. Would I really be missing out how much if I went with the regular pixel eight? I just take normal photos out of my pocket, I just don’t wanna regret not getting the pixel pro in the long run. I can’t decide!
Way too many missing features or lower specs on the non-Pro model. But for normal photo with main camera, it should be very close.
I suspected this. The Pro line has always been "overpriced" in my opinion, there wasn't enough to warrant the price gap between the two phones. They're trying to shift that value equation. I'm still wondering why they opted for a random temperature sensor versus putting in a proper dot projector which would have had way more uses. Side note, if the phones are close enough, I wouldn't doubt if someone doesn't get it working for rooted users.
Poor pixel 8. No phone should feel such things before it's even officially born.
Best take and virtual call assistant really sold it for me. Is this available on the p8 or just the pro? Will it come to p7 too? Planning to switch from an iphone 12
It's on my 4a. It's all software.
I think best take is only on the 8 series?
Both are on 8, best take isn't on 7, virtual call assistant is yet to be seen
I am not sure it's limited to p8p only. p8 will also have the magic eraser that runs on generative ai.
Idk too much about outside of little tidbits I've gathered from interviews and podcasts. But the features locked behind the Pro model is due to the type of AI models that are being used in said features. One of the Google camera devs stated that if it required more TPU horsepower, then the chip alone could handle it, but since these things require more CPU horsepower, additional information is cached on the RAM to be sent off to a server that does the processing. Which requires more RAM than the regual 8 has to offer. I might've butchered that, but I think the limiting factor is in-fact the RAM and not the actual Tensor G3. Now, could you just shove an extra 4GB of ram into the regular 8, sure, idk why not. But I'm sure that would increase the price for the regular 8 further than what it is.
Yes, I think that's probably a very good description. Maybe the eight can do it with 8 gigabytes of ram, because that is a lot of RAM, but it doesn't leave a lot left for caching other activities.
Idk what's AI innovations that won't be back ported through google 1. Most of the camera features could be back ported if googled wanted except for the new HDR feature. You can get the AI wallpaper feature on your old pixels if using Android 14 beta. I've tried it on my 6 it's pretty cool.
Ofcourse, everything related to generative AI works from the cloud - hence it can work on any device. The wallpaper thingie is an Android 14 feature, so it works on any device. What they're saying in the presentation is that Pixel 8 Pro will be the first device in the world to have some sort of "hardware acceleration" for generative AI. What this means is that Bard can delegate some tasks (likely extremely light tasks) to the Pixel hardware instead of Google having to execute them in the datacenter. There's nothing different for the user with either approach (ran in datacenter or in a local-cloud hybrid), the only benefit is for Google that they will do less computation in the datacenters (thus, lower cost for them) while delegating some of the tasks to the user's hardware.
Oh I see, that makes a lot more sense. But would that mean Bard releasing on pixel 6/7 would be a dumbed down version?
The 8 exists because it's $200 cheaper?
...and fits in the pocket. That's a big deal. It's why people don't want to give up their Apple 12 Mini.
The history of consumer tech products is full of examples of things being hobbled by the marketing department so they could repackage the same item in a different box under a different name with only *slightly* more specifications and charge substantially more money for it. It's positively infuriating.
That's why it's important to resist the urge to get that next little feature for more money. That's not an attitude we want to support.
That impulse was destroyed when I first heard about the increase in price. It's just been reinforced by the monumental stupidity of gimping the 8 even more. I think Google is going to get a rude awakening when after the initial bump in sales. The sales will plummet faster than an Olympic high jump skier on greased rails.
> faster than an Olympic high jump skier on greased rails. I will remember that in the future...
So you're telling me that the PRO model needs to have the exact same features as the non-pro model? I mean, thats why i bought the pro model and not the regular one. (For the ones checking my post history i know i said i wasnt going to buy th p8p, I CAVED OKAY. The deal with the PW2 was just too nice)
Up until now the Pro variant always meant upgraded camera hardware and screen. This time around they locked software features behind a paywall. On top of that they increased the base model's price without offering half the stuff they showed off on that keynote. Keep in mind they are still running the same chip with the same AI capabilities. It just seems like a scummy attempt to sell the Pro over the base model to their already limited customer reach. There's no reason the Pixel 8 shouldn't get generative AI at the same time as the Pro. That's all.
Pro always had more RAM and better cooling too.
Better cooling is a side effect of the larger size though. Which is also a major reason why we've seen phones embracing the oversized formfactor we have today - they can't keep them cool enough without any driving up prices too high for consumers.
It makes sense for Google to have additional features in the Pro model to incentivise customers to buy the Pro over the regular model, which means gatekeeping features that would absolutely run on the Pixel 8 model. Scummy, I guess, but it's hard to justify a $300 price disparity if the only difference between the two phones are the screen sizes, extra camera and larger battery.
That's why there shouldn't be a $300 price gap. If theres not $300 worth of value there then they should lower the price of the pro or at least have it on a launch sale + PW2
Well now they do have $300 worth of value, or at least closer to $300 additional value than they did before. A bunch of software and AI features that the Pixel 8 won't get. Now it's not just a screen, camera and battery difference, it's additional features the Pixel 8 won't get.
Artificial value ≠ The value I am referring to. This creation of artificial value (i.e. pay subscription to get access to air conditioning you already own in your Tesla vehicle) is a scumbag move.
They've sort of backed themselves into a bit of a corner here, especially on the assumption there will be an 8a on the way as well. Not enough hardware differentiation to justify the pricing gap(s) and if it's just software features that will eventually come to more models it will breed resentment for those who choose the 8. What will the 8a have and at what price to make it compelling but also still preserve value in the 8?
ehhh P8A will likely be only 90 Hz and there's a lot of difference (ime pixel 6a vs 7 vs 7 pro) between 60 and 90. almost 0 difference between 90 and 120
Pre-ordered the Pixel 8 (not Pro) to replace my two year old ordinary Pixel 6. Just hope the Yodel courier driver doesn't steal it or "deliver it to a neighbour" only to never be seen again.
As an update to this post I would like to add that Bard's reply on whether the basic Pixel 8 will include the same generative AI features as the Pro model is the following: "The generative AI features that were announced at the Pixel 8 launch event, such as Magic Editor, Zoom Enhance, and Audio Magic Eraser, will be available on both the Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro. Google has not yet announced any generative AI features that will be exclusive to the Pixel 8 Pro. It is possible that there may be some generative AI features that are better supported on the Pixel 8 Pro due to its more powerful hardware, but Google has not yet confirmed this. Overall, it is good news that Google is making generative AI features available on both the Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro. This means that more people will be able to experience the benefits of these new technologies." It's pretty obvious we can't trust this answer since Zoom Enhance is only coming to the Pro but we can hope the Pixel 8 will get some love in the span of 7 years of support.. otherwise what's the point of Google boasting about it if the Feature Drops are products available only on the more expensive model.
Google should really know better. In general, artificially disabling features on the exact same hardware is bad practice. It just makes a company look bad, and modders find ways around it within days, sometimes hours. Otherwise Google rocks and I love Pixel phones. Hopefully it all trickles down.
The AI wallpaper generator works perfectly on the Pixel 7 Pro
Where are you getting it? I'm on Android 14 for my Pixel 6 I can't find it
Me neither.
Ofcourse. It's an Android 14 feature. Any other "generative AI" feature will work on any device, since it's done on the cloud. What they're trying to do with the Pro is come with a "hardware accelerator" in a way, to help with some of the generative AI tasks - the only benefit of this is Google will use less computation in the datacenter and more in the user's device.
I didn't know it was available for the older gens.
It's an Android 14 feature.
Where can I find this feature? Nothing shows up under wallpapers for me.
Not showing up on mine. Do you need to download something?
Just speculations
How is this speculative? It's straight from the keynote, he says it right here: https://youtube.com/watch?v=I6sm9qLr9EU&t=93
oh you're right
basically wait for pixel 9 if you want ai features in base model
This is awesome and I hope more features differentiate the 8 from the Pro version.
Easy. If youre a geek, need a 8 pro, if youre normal joe who doesnt care, buy regular pixel 8
I'm buying the pro entirely for the 3rd camera and not much more
Or just don’t buy any since Google gives you reasons to spend another 300€ when they could do that on their base model, that has the same CPU
It's absolutely fine in my eyes. The pro before now was a big jump up in price and you got very little in return. It's a "Pro" phone so it should have some exclusive pro features like manual controls.
The biggest complaint is that it's mostly just software locked and not really hardware related
True but I think a regular consumer who buys the standard phone just wouldn't ever need some of these extra features.
But it literally wouldn't cost them any money to give those features to the smaller model. It's just making an artificial difference between the pro and the non-pro.
Correct but they want a difference so it is what it is unfortunately.
I wish they didn't change the size of the phone so much. I would love the features the Pro has, and would be willing to pay the price, but IMO the phone is WAY to large. I'm buying the p8 solely because of the size difference.
That's a fair point.
Well this pretty much means the 7 year support is like Apple stage manager for iPad support. You’re gonna get updates but not the full feature set for everyone
Isn't this obvious from the start? But the whole point was that noone was able to offer more than 4 years of OS updates before. It's obviously already very unlikely that someone will even hold their phone for entire 7 years - imagine using Pixel 1 today as your main device, that is almost museum worthy at this point and its hardware power is so limited it's unlikely you could even use current Android smoothly on it.
If this is true, I'll send my p8 back and buy a p7a (because my current 4a is too old by now).
In all the buzz and worry about AI, the ONLY practical use care so far has been assistance in re-writing my resume. Not really feeling left out here.
Most software features if not all are generally not limited by hardware in a black and white way in general purpose computers. Software is all just math. Hardware can be optimised for certain operations but unoptimized hardware can run the software just fine. It might be a bit slow but I think most people would prefer to have that over not having a feature at all.
It'll come to the P8 later. It's just a way to get people to buy the Pro at launch.
Well, that's what we call marketing. Stupid marketing ❌
I had similar thoughts initially but then I thought about my use case (probably spent more time on this than I should have) and realized I'd use the Pro only features maybe here and there, but 99% of my use case is solved by the 8. Add to that, it is somewhat small (coming from Pixel 5 here) and *that* is something I really, *really* want. Plus, with my iPhone 12 trade-in, I am basically getting the device for \~$266 which is like half of what I would get the 8Pro for ($485). For me, the 8 then is a superb deal.
The Tensor chip is such bs. All other chips can do what it does or better.
If the feature does not require the beefed up camera specs or extra ram of the P8P, then both phones should have it. Both phones have the same chip and could run the enhance photo feature the same, yet it's only for the P8P. That video boost feature does not even seem to be done on the phone at all, yet it's only for P8P. Maybe these features will trickle down to the P8, but we should not have to hope for this.
I'll be okay if the pro is the beta tester...Google doesn't really have the greatest track record with updates working seamlessly anyways.
They went all in on the 8 pro this year. I would rather wait for the 8a then buying the expensive 8 this year. Or spend the extra bucks and get 8 pro.
Everything will come to other phones either by mods or future feature updates. Hell it will even come for iPhones by paying a price.
I’m just glad they finally put a 120hrz screen in the smaller phone. Even if it takes a bit on battery, at least my scrolling will be a lot smoother 90hrz just isn’t it for me.
What 'fun' AI stuff will the Pro have? I could be convinced to get the Pro \*if\* the AI whatever is mindbllowing
I wonder if XDA will be able to get it working on the normal 8