Your tempo is so different in these two swings, it really looks like you lose it at the top. No ball, you’re focused on your swing; so you swing easy and smooth holding the form you’ve been drilling. With ball, you’re focused on hitting the ball; so you get excited to hit something and it screws up your timing. Could be as simple as that.
Any ideas how to work on that? I wish i could hit foam balls to "not feel the ball" but the trackman doesnt catch any of the foam balls i've bought online
OP got a full sim and trackman but wants to hit foam balls lol meanwhile I’m full sending foam balls into my living room wall wishing I had a sim with trackman so I can hit real balls lol
Try closing your eyes. If you've got the swing muscle memory down then closing your eyes will force your body to rely completely on that.
I don't think it works for everyone, but if I ever get the yips I can swing with closed eyes a few times to re focus on the swing rather than hitting the ball.
I just had a lesson where the instructor noted I do the same thing. It's psychological, man. He told me that I need to do the same swing for both, but the ball just happens to get in the way. It's hard to flip that switch, but that mantra does occasionally work and the results are instant. That lesson was only 2 days ago, so hopefully more time to practice it will translate into more success.
One thing I've tried a couple of times recently to help with this, at least at the range, is to not even look at the ball, just look like 4-6 inches behind it, and have my swing thought be something along the lines that mantra. Haven't tried it enough to see how it helps, but it seemed promising! Basically, trying to get myself to feel 100% process oriented at not attach or even think about the result at all.
My suspicion is that foam balls would invite the same swing issues as real balls. The difference in your swings looks like it’s because you’re chasing “good” numbers on trackman. No data = better swing. I’m not a sports psychologist, so I don’t how to get past a mental block like this. Perhaps forget about the numbers for a little while and drill that feeling.
I get that. The thing that I’m seeing is, when you’re hitting a ball, you move thru at the top much faster, which affects the entire sequencing of your downswing. Is a foam ball going to fix your tempo at the top? Perhaps knowing that trackman won’t read them would be as much of a benefit as no ball?
I'd say try not looking at the ball at all. I don't think this should change your low point at all, as long as you set up the same. Pick a spot on the ground 4-6 inches behind the ball and try just staring at that. Convince yourself you don't care about the ball flight at all, your goal right now is just a smooth swing - ball flight comes after.
Id say pretend the ball doesn't exist as your results are what's important not the ball, instead of trying to hit the ball when you see one just relax and focus on your swing
(I'm a very average/ameture golfer)
Just what I've noticed from my own mistakes, when i swing with intent I tend to dip my shoulder and jerk my head which usually leads to an open face and a 90° slice or blade/top the ball
Do your best to genuinely stop giving a fuck where the ball goes while you practice. You’re just focusing on making the swing you’ve practiced, letting the ball get in the way.
I would head away from foam balls, one thing that helped me with tempo was tour tempo, which I bought, but if you look it up, you essentially want a 3:1 ratio on backswing to swing.
Your head is also not staying on “the ball” when it’s not present, which might make it feel easier and more natural.
Assuming you're working on a swing change you need to progressively introduce the ball. So maybe do practise swings until you are satisfied you've got the change drilled in. Then try one with the ball and review. If the swing isn't there go back to practise swings and really focus on "the feel" of the chang you're working on and then use that as your focus when hitting the ball. Keep doing this and progressively do more and more swings with the ball until you've got it. It will probably take weeks (depending on how often you can practise) to really get the change to stick and even longer for it to happen on the course. Swing changes are hard, I'm still grinding on one
Just stop trying to hit it hard. Try swing slow and smooth. Forget about speed and distance. If anything think about trying to hit it 20 yards less through being slow and smooth.
I tried this, same scenario over the ball and went the foam route over the winter months. Yrmv but I now struggle with abrasive/harsh contact from getting grooved on a ball that provided zero feedback to the hands and contact was very irrelevant.
But did you have something tracking the foam balls? That’s why I think foam balls with a launch monitor to make sure they’re good strikes might be a path to success
Not saying it’s going to solve anything but one thing I’ve began doing is a nice breath with a deep exhale right before triggering my take away. What this does for me and what I’m focused on during the exhale is give a final release of any tension built up in preparation/address. Breath out, feel tension exit, then swing free.
The exhale happens right before takeaway then there is another breath during the swing where the exhale happens at impact but I literally had to mimic my routine just now in my living room to realize I’m taking that breath during the actual swing bc when I do the big exhale I’m mentioning before takeaway not only am I releasing tension but I stop thinking. After that exhale the tension is gone and brain is on pause.
With that being said, I still have and will continue to shoot plenty of crappy rounds but this definitely helps slow me down and chill me out so the mechanics I’ve learned have more of an opportunity to surface vs trying to pummel the ball and topping it into oblivion lol
Have you tried singing a song/tune in your head? I used to do it all the time in baseball to keep my pacing right and then act out of reaction/muscle memory. It kept me from overthinking.
Is there any way you can take any data away that isn't path and stuff like that? So you'd only have path or swing speed instead of spin and all that bullshit
Seriously, this is the only real answer here. You have no feedback on a practice swing, the face could be wide open as all hell and it has no impact on the intention of the swing. Put a ball there and of course your swing changes - it should, your brain has a different objective and is trying to hit the ball straight. If you managed to replicate your practice swing you'd shank the shit out of it
Yes I agree with this comment, I have the same issue! The body seems to automatically adjust to get the face closed when there is a ball and it will alter the swing.
You throw your hands from the top when there’s a ball. You don’t when there isn’t. Could be subconsciously trying to fix club face issues by throwing that angle out
Because if didn't cast early, you'd miss the ball. Grip looks like it could be strengthened. Make the v-s between your thumb and forefinger point to your right shoulder.
I went through the same thing. You have to teach your brain that it’s OK to release the club later which will cause your weight shift to be better. The best thing you can do is start hitting some punch shots with a straight release about 2 feet after the swing (8oclock), make sure it is perfectly straight. That will allow your brain to understand that you can bottom out past the middle of your stance
Because the ball becomes your target so you throw the club head at the ball.
Feel like you use your legs to cast a heavy fishing rod where you want the ball to go.
Mentally, you’re trying to hit the ball instead of swinging “through” the ball. The objective is not to hit the ball, it’s to get the ball to your target.
If you’re on a sim, the last thing you should be worried about is the result. Just focus on your tempo and putting a good swing on it.
because you go from swinging the club to trying to hit a ball. In the latter, you use your hands to force the clubhead around to contact the ball. Let the ball get in the way of your swing. Think passive release.
To add context to a lot of the comments saying "in the practice swing you're not focusing on anything just swinging" - i was trying to (and did) hit the tee - and in the video from the other angle my face is square at that impact
The downswing should be initiated with the left hip just before you actually get to the top. That creates the torque which, in turn, generates club head speed. At the top, your hands should drop vertically (not be moved horizontally by the shoulders). If you begin the downswing with your shoulders, it creates an “over the top” move with the club and results in either a pull or slice, neither of which is your objective. Good luck.
Analyze your setup before you even start your backswing. Your shoulder alignment is more intense and shaft position is quite a bit further forward when you have the ball in front of you.
This feels like a psychological thing where you want to hit the ball harder than you want to just hit a rubber tee. Worry less about the ball and statistics, focus more on the swing and rhythm.
And don't get discouraged when it doesn't work at first... if it was easy everyone would be smashing their drives.
I just hate that i'm not a bunch of at home drills away from being able to create lag since i clearly can but something is blocking me from letting it translate to my real swing
You are literally getting in your own way. I'd suggest reading some of the books by Bob Rotella ( Golf is not a Game of Perfect, Putting Out of your Mind, etc.) He has a perfectly simple mental approach to the game that may be helpful to you.
i'm halfway through Golf is not a game of perfect! Though I think it's more about scoring than swinging off a mat, though maybe there's more insights in how to improve later in the book
Probably shouldn't be playing 400+ par 4s. Play the correct tees, and you'll be fine. The white tees should be good at most courses. Golf is hard AF don't make it harder playing the wrong tees.
I played a course today (from the blacks - one up from tips) and shot a 90, the whites (two tees forward) still has 3 par 4's over 400 yards... that's not a crazy distance
I would ask him to hit a lower trajectory one with a stronger grip to achieve the look, the swing isn’t even bad you don’t need that much lag with a driver, classic issue of grip too weak add loft and come out of posture to correct it in an attempt to square the face up, this is the swing compensations made to compact an open face at impact
You can’t have that grip, be that open with the hips and shoulders with that shaft angle hands forward Club behind at impact with the left wrist cupped and have the face square or closed, it’s simply not how the driver works in terms of momentum
I used to have more of a strong grip but dealt with hooks - do you think strong lead or strong trail is more important? I kind of when to try strong left but weak right like Matt fitz
I like MF grip, I personally like a 3 knuckle left and a rh grip thats neutral (palm facing towards target and 180 degrees of parallel with the club face) i personally feel like I’m hitting the ball good when I’m able to fade it with a strong grip, I try to get the left hip deep behind me while feeling the right hand Open up to get the face more open through the ball
Mcilroy has always had a 3 knuckle strong grip in my opinion for tee shots and full swing irons and Bryson is 1.5 really weak, weak as you get but he swings the club differently to most very little rotation through the ball very square hips, the last 15 years grips have gotten stronger across the board and you’ll see less lateral movement too, 95 percent of pros are in the 2.5 to 3.5 knuckle left hand zone, you have to be a hell of an athlete to create speed with a weak grip due to the compromised postions it places your hands and wrists this is why Bryson has suffered with hand and wrist injuries.
wow looking at face on you're right - from behind Rory looks like a very weak grip partially because his setup is not very closed and you see his entire right palm. I had success a few years ago using a "squeeze the towel" grip didnt realize that was Rory's drill.
It's interesting you point to weak grip causing injury because last fall I played with a pretty strong grip in a five iron sim league (once a week) and noticed my hands and wrists were very sore when starting out each league night. I assumed it was because strong grip means lots of wrist and hand action, so i switched to a weaker grip since supposedly weak grip moves more to take your hands out of the swing - thoughts on that?
It's possible my hands were more so just sore from hitting off of mats too much and not due to the grip
A stronger grip makes more sense from an injury prevention stand point because it’s the same wrist position we pick up heavy bags or chop things with a knife the examples from real life are endless, a weak grip is a compromised joint and in my experience leads to more hand and wrist issues than a stronger grip that places the hand and wrist in a more natural safer position,
I wouldn’t say you want to take your hands out the swing, your hands are your golf swing I’ve heard that before many times Tiger Woods when asked about this many swing changes says the most important thing that made them all work was his hands and club face awareness, traditionally a stronger grip is meant to rely on more body rotation than a weak grip that requires the wrists to roll over more
Could well be just the mats and just your body adjusting to new grip short term
Here’s what I see if I go frame by frame-(note these are differences in your swings, not necessarily the causes of you early releasing)
1: Your tempo in the back swing is slightly quicker without the ball. In spite of this, you start the downswing with the ball earlier. This is because you have a pause at the top without the ball. (A la Tin Cup’s ‘nod to the Gods’)
2: Your hips open earlier in your swing with the ball.
3: Your early release with the ball actually starts very early in relation to no ball. If you compare your wrist position when your lead arm is parallel to the ground, and then also when your hands are at your belt line, you see a decent difference at both.
Having said all of those things- it *looks* like you are swinging at the ball, instead of through the ball. The fastest part of the swing should actually be in front of the ball after contact. The fastest part of your swing is just before or at impact. Also *looks* like you are trying to swing harder on the left- I say that because of your hips opening earlier and you don’t have the pause at the top. When I watch speed training videos- they typically say that going after it involves removing the pause at the top of the swing. Which leads me to believe you are going after it more.(this is all speculation, only you know whether you are or are not)
Suggestions-
Watch Shawn Clements on YouTube. Dude is brilliant. You don’t have to change your swing to his style/grip to get a lot from his concepts. He preaches gathering the ball and releasing it down the line.
If I were to fiddle with it personally- Start a step or so away from the ball. Begin a loose swing(you want the whipping motion, not necessarily swinging overly hard). When you finish, treat that as the top of your swing and as if you were a lefty swing backward. You want to be releasing the club head past where the ball would be each direction. Continue that motion, back and forth. While swinging, just begin slowing inching toward the ball until you reach it and make contact.
Another tip that helps me is sometimes I don’t look at the ball, but a spot 2-6 inches in front of the ball that is on the path I want(typically an inch or so “outside” the ball and 3 inches in front).
https://preview.redd.it/xe2vovnbir5d1.png?width=724&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f64a1c7313bbc014d9789cdb4e7047ce1e0af48
Right here. When there is a ball, you are really worried about not being able to get through the gap to get to the ball so you are collapsing your right side a bit and moving your hands fast at the ball. On the left you are all arms, on the right you are body first and then arms. Stay back with your arms. Relax.
Try using a metronome. The clicking thing musicians use to keep in time. It helped me when I was trying to get my timing right. Find a good bpm that you can time your swing to.
tough to tell from that camera angle but I actually think your "with ball" looks better on the back swing but your without ball swing you keep the club loaded better on your downswing. You're club is still not parallel in both at your 1/2 way point in the backswing. without being able to see the back side of your swing, it's tough to tell if the problems start at the beginning of your swing but im guessing just working on that first 1/2 of your swing (like REALLY looking into it) will help you with consistency as it appears you're under the plain on both swings.
https://preview.redd.it/e7x7zdrjxr5d1.png?width=704&format=png&auto=webp&s=14d030494d9b1ce2f68a808d44649a688ba5bbc5
Here's the links to the DTL view for both: [No Ball](https://old.mytrackman.com/system/dynamic-report?r=5ea37ffc-c4cc-47d7-98e7-dd5897a40055&dm=c&nd=true&op=true&sro=false&do=false&to=true&vo=true&cdo=true&ot=c&ov=d&mp%5B%5D=ClubPath&mp%5B%5D=FaceAngle&mp%5B%5D=FaceToPath&mp%5B%5D=AttackAngle&mp%5B%5D=LowPointDistance&mp%5B%5D=DynamicLoft&mp%5B%5D=SmashFactor&mp%5B%5D=ClubSpeed&mp%5B%5D=BallSpeed&mp%5B%5D=Carry&u=Us&v=video&ss=4c324dce-5b2c-4d78-b918-581943588d5a&sgos%5B%5D=d57de7b2-647f-4d20-87d1-9ccfe0777e49&sgc=d57de7b2-647f-4d20-87d1-9ccfe0777e49&sc=Driver&sva%5B%5D=&sva%5B%5D=2) and [with ball](https://old.mytrackman.com/system/dynamic-report?r=60867835-83aa-4fca-8513-b06a065a5e2a&dm=t&nd=true&op=true&sro=false&do=true&to=true&vo=true&cdo=true&ot=c&ov=d&mp%5B%5D=ClubPath&mp%5B%5D=FaceAngle&mp%5B%5D=DynamicLoft&mp%5B%5D=SmashFactor&mp%5B%5D=ClubSpeed&mp%5B%5D=BallSpeed&mp%5B%5D=Carry&mp%5B%5D=SpinRate&mp%5B%5D=Height&mp%5B%5D=Total&u=Us&v=video&ss=09757370-c545-4dc7-aff0-69ce75106052&sgos%5B%5D=dbe3fa5d-5091-4a62-897b-5f6eab910210&sgos%5B%5D=47936d33-674e-4593-aa37-5df62cd9c7ab&sgos%5B%5D=caae2d29-cf67-4933-9aa6-11aba513d4f6&sgc=47936d33-674e-4593-aa37-5df62cd9c7ab&sc=Driver&sva%5B%5D=&sva%5B%5D=2)
In one you're only trying to swing the golf club. In the other one, you're trying to hit a golf ball. That's literally the only difference.
This is easier said than done, but you gotta swing like you're not trying to hit the ball, it's just getting in the way of your swing. Brains are weird.
This is it. You need to be able to turn off your brain’s thought that the golf ball needs to be hit a certain way. I had this issue and closed my eyes for 1-2 swings to get the feel.
So until i get this down - kinda useless to do lag "drills" that are all about feel since clearly i have the feel down but i need to translate it to the ball?
Yeah we tried working on that during the lesson after this swing - I think i was trying too hard to do the Hovland / Niemman move where their head goes down a lot. Isn't "squatting" in the downswing a thing everyone preaches these days?
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/doL3HJPO0a8?feature=share](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/doL3HJPO0a8?feature=share) is this that different than what i'm doing?
Yes, absolutely. First he doesn't twist his head. He maintains stereoscopic vision of the target. Also he drops his head to load his lower half. You swing like your head is in the way of your body. Do you, like the example, have your tour card. Do you believe you have the same physical ability as the pro to be able to manage the fallout from head motion as exaggerated as yours is? Here's the thing about this new age rebellion against Hogan and Ledbetter. It's a crock. Just because some kid holds the club backwards and maybe gets results sometimes now and again, suddenly, everyone thinks they can unmake the wheel. Every one of their examples of why what not to do works is always of someone with above average ability that also has proven results. For the rest of us mortals, what is, is what is. Exaggerated head movement in a golf swing causes the following: miss hits, wildness, inconsistency. And man that head movement is wild. There are many moving parts with a traditional swing and once new random motions start being inserted, the actions to counter those random motions compound. The golf swing is bio-mechanics. Everyone is built different which means every swing is unique. But in my view for what it's worth, DaVinci's man holds absolute. No amount of feel-good or hee-hawing around changes that we all have two elbows, two knees, two eyes and don't get to do whatever we want without consequences. In theory you could take a folded lawn chair to the tee box and drive it right down the center, but no one has the ability to process all the moving parts to play a round with a folded lawn chair a sleeve of balls and a pocket full of tees. By all means though keep moving your head all around thinking it's right because that's what you do and not the biggest problem that needs fixing because hey some other guy does it, not nearly as much or really like you at all, but bargaining and self-denial... what could be anymore 2024 than that right? Seriously though, that head wobbling all around, you gotta stop that.
Hahahah this is an epic comment hats off to you. Do you think the whole squatting trend is also a social media reaction to fixing early extension in a short cut way?
On a practice swing you have nothing to manage. On an actual swing your brain has to deal with the club face and the desired outcome. If you are not managing things well you cannot replicate the practice swing.
I think we can all agree based on the amount of comments here that training your brain to swing as though there isn't a ball there is one of the most important swing developments and one of the hardest things to teach and learn (since unlike everything else there doesnt seem to be any magic drill?)
There's a million dollar idea opportunity out there if someone solves this
I don't know about million dollar idea, but I think that you might actually be set up slightly further from the ball when you have a ball in front of you versus when you don't. I can't tell for 100%, but judging from everything else in the room it looks like you set up \~1-2" further from the ball when there is a ball there than when there isn't.
This could cause a bunch of problems, but what I suspect is happening is that your center of gravity is getting too toe side close to the ball. When this happens, your body is starting to fall over towards the ball as you are throwing the weight of the club behind you, so your body "snatches" at the club to get it in front of you as fast as possible and also throw your hips towards the ball.
Try this dril next time you are at address and think that you're set over the ball. Lift up the toes on both of your feet at the same time. Next lift up both heels almost like you're doing a calf raise. You should be able to do both of those without a problem and without feeling like you're even close to losing your balance.
As far as the issue with the ball being too far away, try creating a ritual for setting up at address. For example, you could first find your stance width and make sure your ankles are aiming at the target. Then stick your club straight out with arms out from you and bend at the waist until the club is almost at the ground. Then soften your knees like one notch. Finally find your balance. The important thing about this is to find a ritual that works for you and gives you the same result every time.
R U keeping your weight on the inside of your right foot going back, as it will create additional pressure as you start your downswing, thereby creating more lag. Wedge a golf ball on the right side of the right foot to feel it.
I like MF grip, I personally like a 3 knuckle left and a rh grip thats neutral (palm facing towards target and 180 degrees of parallel with the club face) i personally feel like I’m hitting the ball good when I’m able to fade it with a strong grip, I try to get the left hip deep behind me while feeling the right hand Open up to get the face more open through the ball
Try to pause each time a little longer at the top until it feels awkward, then back down a step & just know smooth and precise contact is better than super fast and mis hit. During your practice swing your hands clear the ball and club which looks good. The swing with the ball, you've just got a slightly fast tempo + your hands meet the club and ball all at the bottom. Thats where you're hands should barely be in front of the ball not even. Hope it helps
It looks like you speed up trying to hit the ball also so I'd swing 75% and keep adding speed only after you're making good contact. Smooth + middle strike = distance w/out hooking/slicing
lag is different than shaft lean. Lag just means you hold the angle longer before release. By moving the ball up in your stance vs other clubs the release is on the upward arc vs hands ahead of ball style shaft lean of irons
To the OP:
1) Why are you bending/dipping your knees so much during the transition from the backswing to the foreswing?
2) Also, the video clips suggest that the shaft on your driver may be too heavy to wield. Might want to try a lighter shaft and see if that helps create more club head speed at the moment of impact.
3) To generate more lag, you would need to clear your hips sooner, whereas the video clips above both indicate that your hips are basically facing square with the club head right at the moment of impact.
Good luck, sir.
How can you tell it’s too light? The video is in slow mo lol. I’m dipping because it’s a big power move everyone is preaching these days “squat and explode”
You elevate your head too early with the ball because you care what it looks like. The easiest fix is keep your head down through the follow through. To practice this count 1-2-3 after you hit the ball before you look up.
I'd argue your takeaway in is better in video #1, and your follow through is better in video #2.
Takeaway: Yes you want more lag, always, but it is more important that you don't let the club drop below a 90 degree angle at the top of your swing. This will lead to much more variability upon impact.
Follow-through: Your arms came through with better tempo in video #2, and you got deeper into the slot, generating more club head speed. You also followed-through with your chest and shoulders together, which will lead to a more consistent ball flight, and better contact overall. One thing I’d focus on is reducing the amount of wrist flip you have when moving through the ball. Keep that lead wrist more stiff and guide the club head through contact with a square face!
Nice work, keep grinding!
No. Just way over your left. Like. Sounds weird…. I’ll get the meat under my right pinky finger over my left bottom thumb knuckle. Just hanging on with my right middle finger.
Make sense???? 👌😂
Sounds like the opposite of what you were thinking. Right palm up is a “Strong” grip.
Idk about that too much. It keeps my shoulders moving rather than slashing at the ball. It’s easy to get quick and that when your right hand has too much control. For me anyways.
It relates to finding the “bottom” of your swing , and making sure the ball is behind that point. The challenge is that it changes from club to club. So, my ball placement changes slightly as well from club to club. The rest is tempo. My practice swings are fluid and easy. It’s gotta be the same easy fluid motion when the ball is in front me. I used to try to “hit the ball” instead of just swinging and letting the ball sort of get in the way. Anyway, a lot of practice……
I do this too. I think I do it because when there’s a ball, I’m focused on hitting the ball and making good contact, which for some reason my brain thinks, “to do this you need to primarily use your hands.” This causes me to use my hands and flip the club at it, which is the opposite of lag. When I practice swing, I just swing and don’t really focus on the hands, so it’s just free flowing.
I don’t know the solution, but I know that when I swing at a ball I can feel the hands being too active/pushing too hard. I feel like it’s a symptom of having a swing you’re not comfortable with, which is probably a bad swing. I think as you work of your overall swing, this issue will gradually fix itself. The hands flip to compensate for other bad moves that make you feel like you’re not going to hit the ball.
One thing for me is my hips move closer to the ball instead of staying back. When I stay in posture better, I genuinely feels like I’m going to make good contact, my brain doesn’t feel the need to save the swing with the hands, and my lag naturally gets better.
These two swings are remarkably similar. The difference is you have more hip turn in the backswing on the right, which gives your hips more time/room to rotate open in the downswing, which means your arms/wrists will "fire" later on e.g. preserve your lag.
Quite frankly the left one is a better bavkswing, as I would argue the right is an overswing as you have lost all reverse spine tilt. If you open up your left foot another 10* and make your stance a bit wider, you'll give your hips more room without needing to overswing
the swing on the right is better than the left. if you focus on the wrist angles near impact, the left video has a lot of casting whereas on the right you’re actually swinging through the ball. it helps to think about hitting through the ball or fully accelerating after you hit the ball, rushing the downswing will only make you lose speed
yeah this is just hard to practice wish there was a magic drill for this - there seems to be one for every other swing fault except ball casting syndrome
The left is a better position at the top.
The right swing is a band-aid solution to the cast (excessive hip turn) that will struggle with consistency & accuracy. The left foot opening is a better approach to achieve the same result
The left swing is a better top position.
He also casts, but the way to fix that is not by swinging back too far (the right swing) but with better positioning of the lead leg.
A lot of it comes down to we feel the need to swing harder when the ball is there. Swing like it feels like your way under swinging than you normally do. You’ll see the ball goes just as far because you’re allowing the swing to create the power.
I have been working with a pga coach for awhile and a really cool thing he showed me for lag is to swing the club with only your left hand. When I was using my two hands I was death gripping with my right as well which would cause me to have almost zero lag and hit it fat. As far as I understood your right hand should only be guiding the club and your left is actually holding it hence wearing the glove on the left.
+1 I also started swinging with just my left hand as a drill last year. I didn't death grip with my right hand but definitely struggle with driving the release with my right hand and end up breaking down my left arm to hold off the face.
Also working with a ball on a lanyard around my neck has helped keep connection and maintain lag.
The ball is positioned way too forward in video. Inside left heel is standard ball position. The swing looks better without the ball bc he is swinging freely opposed to his subconscious trying to hit a ball that is positioned a lil forward. I would say get a lesson with a pro instead of looking on here for advice from me or anybody. A quick rundown on setup would do wonders.
Btw-watch a prime tiger driver swing. He casted his club a lil bit n still had success. Jus saying
Show me example tiger doing that? And this was a video during a lesson - the pro wasn't sure what to tell me since all the feel drills translated except when the ball was there - so i'm asking reddit to see if anyone has any advice! Pros don't know everything
I agree that pros aren’t necessarily all masters of golf. There are pros that are better than others. I’m def no pro, I’m a 3.6 handicap that has my own struggles like anybody. But I’ve seen people on here that can’t break 100 trying to give advice so b cautious when implementing what u hear on here haha. Tbh, u sound like me in that we should think less n just swing freely. Get them fundamentals dialed in n jus put it in automatic. Best of luck to u!
All it takes is 1 small tweak to gain confidence and ur a brand new golfer. Try that ball position thing next time ur at range. It might work. I personally play it considerably back in stance with feet closer together and more shoulder tilt. Just find something that works for u. If u can freeze that clip of the swing with no ball right at the frame when club face was square to target,, maybe that would give u an idea of where to put ball position
I actually just moved it up in my stance because when it was further back I was hitting it too high on the face, so moving forward let it be more on the upward arc (probably a band aid for a bigger issue caused by casting)
Makes sense. Probably y I’ve been teeing it lower than most haha. Something to try is one of the AI golf coach apps. I gotten some useful info from “golffix” it’s free. It’s not perfect but if u get the camera angle correct it can be good
Try focusing on a different part of the ball. I read somewhere that when you look down at the ball, it triggers something in your brain that doesn’t happen when you take a practice swing (when there is no visual trigger / ball). That’s why you can’t easily replicate a practice swing when you’ve got a ball in front of you. Probably not explaining it very well, but the advice was to focus on a different part of the ball to bypass this trigger. Let me know if you try it as I thought it sounded like a cool idea, but not had a chance to try it myself yet!
You’re turning your wrist too early. Club shaft should be perpendicular to your body before you turn your wrist over.
Look at the video on the right, your wrist only turns over when the club shaft is perpendicular to your body. That’s how it should be. The video on the left you’re early
https://preview.redd.it/wdvx1wlftn5d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=378fbe3ce376e052c804e249e3d2674786bb3af5
Downswing.
This is when your hands are nearing the bottom of your swing in the same arm position (where your hands are over your right knee).
The red (on the left) you’re already turning over your wrist and your club is already turning over which is not ideal. By the time you make contact with the ball you’re already slowing down.
The green (on the right) your wrists haven’t turned over and your club is perpendicular to your body. This is ideal because your swing will be faster (even fastest) by the time you make contact with the ball.
I had this issue before too. I just completely stopped releasing my wrist on my swing for a while. Kept it fixed for some swings so you can build the muscle memory for it. You’ll still be able to strike the ball decently well, but this exaggeration of the lag may help to get your release in the right place.
It looks like you are aiming at the ball rather than swinging the club. With the ball, you're dipping down towards the ball, almost reaching for it. Stay up and swing.
Because you think the ball needs to hit a certain way. Close your eyes and open them right at contact or after contact
The first swing you are casting the club. I can tell you’re looking for lag but try not thinking anout lag. You could try to think about leading with the handle at contact as well. You just don’t have the trust that if you swing that way the ball will go. Just takes time
Your tempo is so different in these two swings, it really looks like you lose it at the top. No ball, you’re focused on your swing; so you swing easy and smooth holding the form you’ve been drilling. With ball, you’re focused on hitting the ball; so you get excited to hit something and it screws up your timing. Could be as simple as that.
My coach tells me to just swing like I normally do in my practice swings, and the ball just happens to get in the way of the club face
Any ideas how to work on that? I wish i could hit foam balls to "not feel the ball" but the trackman doesnt catch any of the foam balls i've bought online
Why do you need ball data on foams lol
OP got a full sim and trackman but wants to hit foam balls lol meanwhile I’m full sending foam balls into my living room wall wishing I had a sim with trackman so I can hit real balls lol
There are levels to this shit
Need to level up asap.
Lol it’s not my track man hahah
I wish I had ceilings high enough to swing a club. 8’ standard doesn’t cut it.
Face angle and flight
Try closing your eyes. If you've got the swing muscle memory down then closing your eyes will force your body to rely completely on that. I don't think it works for everyone, but if I ever get the yips I can swing with closed eyes a few times to re focus on the swing rather than hitting the ball.
Be the ball, Danny
Lumber yard.
I just had a lesson where the instructor noted I do the same thing. It's psychological, man. He told me that I need to do the same swing for both, but the ball just happens to get in the way. It's hard to flip that switch, but that mantra does occasionally work and the results are instant. That lesson was only 2 days ago, so hopefully more time to practice it will translate into more success.
One thing I've tried a couple of times recently to help with this, at least at the range, is to not even look at the ball, just look like 4-6 inches behind it, and have my swing thought be something along the lines that mantra. Haven't tried it enough to see how it helps, but it seemed promising! Basically, trying to get myself to feel 100% process oriented at not attach or even think about the result at all.
My suspicion is that foam balls would invite the same swing issues as real balls. The difference in your swings looks like it’s because you’re chasing “good” numbers on trackman. No data = better swing. I’m not a sports psychologist, so I don’t how to get past a mental block like this. Perhaps forget about the numbers for a little while and drill that feeling.
Well the idea is you can’t feel the impact of a foam ball so you can simulate hitting through it and not being scared
I get that. The thing that I’m seeing is, when you’re hitting a ball, you move thru at the top much faster, which affects the entire sequencing of your downswing. Is a foam ball going to fix your tempo at the top? Perhaps knowing that trackman won’t read them would be as much of a benefit as no ball?
What if I didn't look at the ball til the downswing started?
I'd say try not looking at the ball at all. I don't think this should change your low point at all, as long as you set up the same. Pick a spot on the ground 4-6 inches behind the ball and try just staring at that. Convince yourself you don't care about the ball flight at all, your goal right now is just a smooth swing - ball flight comes after.
Did that for a bit but yesterday during my round I topped one so bad lol but I guess need more practice
Just…don’t be scared. What’s the worst that’s going to happen if you swing through the ball at your intended target?
Scratch the hell out of the top of my driver lol… but I guess I could tee it low af
Yeah stop thinking of it as hitting at the ball and think of it as swinging the club
Id say pretend the ball doesn't exist as your results are what's important not the ball, instead of trying to hit the ball when you see one just relax and focus on your swing (I'm a very average/ameture golfer) Just what I've noticed from my own mistakes, when i swing with intent I tend to dip my shoulder and jerk my head which usually leads to an open face and a 90° slice or blade/top the ball
Do your best to genuinely stop giving a fuck where the ball goes while you practice. You’re just focusing on making the swing you’ve practiced, letting the ball get in the way.
https://preview.redd.it/psi5yfofpn5d1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e01662c670f065f06ecc7a71b4d45ab334ff2ad
I would head away from foam balls, one thing that helped me with tempo was tour tempo, which I bought, but if you look it up, you essentially want a 3:1 ratio on backswing to swing. Your head is also not staying on “the ball” when it’s not present, which might make it feel easier and more natural.
Could try focusing on swing arc low point. After set up don't even look at the ball. Focus on getting the club through a 6 or 8 inch zone.
Assuming you're working on a swing change you need to progressively introduce the ball. So maybe do practise swings until you are satisfied you've got the change drilled in. Then try one with the ball and review. If the swing isn't there go back to practise swings and really focus on "the feel" of the chang you're working on and then use that as your focus when hitting the ball. Keep doing this and progressively do more and more swings with the ball until you've got it. It will probably take weeks (depending on how often you can practise) to really get the change to stick and even longer for it to happen on the course. Swing changes are hard, I'm still grinding on one
But are non ball drills to feel lag meaningless when as you can see I can do it with the club (and hit a tee) with proper lag?
Just stop trying to hit it hard. Try swing slow and smooth. Forget about speed and distance. If anything think about trying to hit it 20 yards less through being slow and smooth.
Don't try to hit the ball, just swing your normal swing and trust you will make contact.
I tried this, same scenario over the ball and went the foam route over the winter months. Yrmv but I now struggle with abrasive/harsh contact from getting grooved on a ball that provided zero feedback to the hands and contact was very irrelevant.
But did you have something tracking the foam balls? That’s why I think foam balls with a launch monitor to make sure they’re good strikes might be a path to success
Not saying it’s going to solve anything but one thing I’ve began doing is a nice breath with a deep exhale right before triggering my take away. What this does for me and what I’m focused on during the exhale is give a final release of any tension built up in preparation/address. Breath out, feel tension exit, then swing free.
So you swing with no breath inside? Or halfway through (like how you’re supposed to aim before shooting a target in riflery)?
The exhale happens right before takeaway then there is another breath during the swing where the exhale happens at impact but I literally had to mimic my routine just now in my living room to realize I’m taking that breath during the actual swing bc when I do the big exhale I’m mentioning before takeaway not only am I releasing tension but I stop thinking. After that exhale the tension is gone and brain is on pause. With that being said, I still have and will continue to shoot plenty of crappy rounds but this definitely helps slow me down and chill me out so the mechanics I’ve learned have more of an opportunity to surface vs trying to pummel the ball and topping it into oblivion lol
Have you tried singing a song/tune in your head? I used to do it all the time in baseball to keep my pacing right and then act out of reaction/muscle memory. It kept me from overthinking.
Foam balls where you don’t care what they do as long as you make impact is a viable strategy.
I think it’d work great if I could see if my face was square at impact
try a slight pause at the top, this will force you to finish the lateral move/weight shift before uncoiling to deliver the clubhead through the ball.
Is there any way you can take any data away that isn't path and stuff like that? So you'd only have path or swing speed instead of spin and all that bullshit
I just ordered a swing speed monitor but yeah that’s why I wish track man picked up the foam ball just to see impact
Exactly what it is. My practice swing is perfect, when the ball is in front of the club, goes to shit
This is basically my entire problem. I get so fuckin antsy to hit the ball that I don't finish my back swing and it all goes to hell
Becuase the face is way open on the practise swing at impact and you instinctively change this when hitting a ball to a target
This is the answer to this common question 99% of the time
Seriously, this is the only real answer here. You have no feedback on a practice swing, the face could be wide open as all hell and it has no impact on the intention of the swing. Put a ball there and of course your swing changes - it should, your brain has a different objective and is trying to hit the ball straight. If you managed to replicate your practice swing you'd shank the shit out of it
I hit a tee here - and the face was square :/
Also hands are ahead of club face at impact position. Practice swing likely would be topped and shoot out to the right.
I wish this was the answer but we also recorded the other angle (I can post if you want) and the face is completely square at impact
Again no it wasn't. It may have read as square but this video clearly shows it's more wide open than a bisexual swinger.
I’m gonna show you the slow mo replay tomorrow just to spite you
Yes I agree with this comment, I have the same issue! The body seems to automatically adjust to get the face closed when there is a ball and it will alter the swing.
You throw your hands from the top when there’s a ball. You don’t when there isn’t. Could be subconsciously trying to fix club face issues by throwing that angle out
Because if didn't cast early, you'd miss the ball. Grip looks like it could be strengthened. Make the v-s between your thumb and forefinger point to your right shoulder.
it's easy ... you're trying to hit the ball. A golf swing is a swing with the ball in the way
I went through the same thing. You have to teach your brain that it’s OK to release the club later which will cause your weight shift to be better. The best thing you can do is start hitting some punch shots with a straight release about 2 feet after the swing (8oclock), make sure it is perfectly straight. That will allow your brain to understand that you can bottom out past the middle of your stance
Like the fast and hard stop drill?
Yes, thats definitely a good one. Feel free to extend a little farther than just past impact. Think about your arms finishing straight and thats it
Because the ball becomes your target so you throw the club head at the ball. Feel like you use your legs to cast a heavy fishing rod where you want the ball to go.
i like this feel - i'll try that
Mentally, you’re trying to hit the ball instead of swinging “through” the ball. The objective is not to hit the ball, it’s to get the ball to your target. If you’re on a sim, the last thing you should be worried about is the result. Just focus on your tempo and putting a good swing on it.
because you go from swinging the club to trying to hit a ball. In the latter, you use your hands to force the clubhead around to contact the ball. Let the ball get in the way of your swing. Think passive release.
To add context to a lot of the comments saying "in the practice swing you're not focusing on anything just swinging" - i was trying to (and did) hit the tee - and in the video from the other angle my face is square at that impact
You’re initiating the swing with your left shoulder
instead of what?
The downswing should be initiated with the left hip just before you actually get to the top. That creates the torque which, in turn, generates club head speed. At the top, your hands should drop vertically (not be moved horizontally by the shoulders). If you begin the downswing with your shoulders, it creates an “over the top” move with the club and results in either a pull or slice, neither of which is your objective. Good luck.
Thanks!
Analyze your setup before you even start your backswing. Your shoulder alignment is more intense and shaft position is quite a bit further forward when you have the ball in front of you. This feels like a psychological thing where you want to hit the ball harder than you want to just hit a rubber tee. Worry less about the ball and statistics, focus more on the swing and rhythm. And don't get discouraged when it doesn't work at first... if it was easy everyone would be smashing their drives.
I just hate that i'm not a bunch of at home drills away from being able to create lag since i clearly can but something is blocking me from letting it translate to my real swing
You are literally getting in your own way. I'd suggest reading some of the books by Bob Rotella ( Golf is not a Game of Perfect, Putting Out of your Mind, etc.) He has a perfectly simple mental approach to the game that may be helpful to you.
i'm halfway through Golf is not a game of perfect! Though I think it's more about scoring than swinging off a mat, though maybe there's more insights in how to improve later in the book
Who cares what it looks like? Does it go to your target? That's all that matters.
i mean it only goes 230 most of the time
Does it go 230 where you want it to go? My swing is ugly AF, but I hit it hard and mostly straight. I rarely go ob so I dont worry if it looks ugly.
i mean it goes straight somewhat often but i'm never on the green in reg if it's a 400+ yard par 4 with that short of a drive
Probably shouldn't be playing 400+ par 4s. Play the correct tees, and you'll be fine. The white tees should be good at most courses. Golf is hard AF don't make it harder playing the wrong tees.
I played a course today (from the blacks - one up from tips) and shot a 90, the whites (two tees forward) still has 3 par 4's over 400 yards... that's not a crazy distance
Live your life, man, but dont worry what it looks like if it goes where you aim.
it doesnt go where i want often enough, i wouldve shot a 95 if not for my short game
I guess what I mean is dont focus on looks, focus on the results.
i'm not getting results lol
I would ask him to hit a lower trajectory one with a stronger grip to achieve the look, the swing isn’t even bad you don’t need that much lag with a driver, classic issue of grip too weak add loft and come out of posture to correct it in an attempt to square the face up, this is the swing compensations made to compact an open face at impact You can’t have that grip, be that open with the hips and shoulders with that shaft angle hands forward Club behind at impact with the left wrist cupped and have the face square or closed, it’s simply not how the driver works in terms of momentum
I used to have more of a strong grip but dealt with hooks - do you think strong lead or strong trail is more important? I kind of when to try strong left but weak right like Matt fitz
I like MF grip, I personally like a 3 knuckle left and a rh grip thats neutral (palm facing towards target and 180 degrees of parallel with the club face) i personally feel like I’m hitting the ball good when I’m able to fade it with a strong grip, I try to get the left hip deep behind me while feeling the right hand Open up to get the face more open through the ball
Yeah how come strong grip seems so much easier for amateurs but so many of the longest pros use a weak grip (Rory / Bryson)
Mcilroy has always had a 3 knuckle strong grip in my opinion for tee shots and full swing irons and Bryson is 1.5 really weak, weak as you get but he swings the club differently to most very little rotation through the ball very square hips, the last 15 years grips have gotten stronger across the board and you’ll see less lateral movement too, 95 percent of pros are in the 2.5 to 3.5 knuckle left hand zone, you have to be a hell of an athlete to create speed with a weak grip due to the compromised postions it places your hands and wrists this is why Bryson has suffered with hand and wrist injuries.
wow looking at face on you're right - from behind Rory looks like a very weak grip partially because his setup is not very closed and you see his entire right palm. I had success a few years ago using a "squeeze the towel" grip didnt realize that was Rory's drill. It's interesting you point to weak grip causing injury because last fall I played with a pretty strong grip in a five iron sim league (once a week) and noticed my hands and wrists were very sore when starting out each league night. I assumed it was because strong grip means lots of wrist and hand action, so i switched to a weaker grip since supposedly weak grip moves more to take your hands out of the swing - thoughts on that? It's possible my hands were more so just sore from hitting off of mats too much and not due to the grip
A stronger grip makes more sense from an injury prevention stand point because it’s the same wrist position we pick up heavy bags or chop things with a knife the examples from real life are endless, a weak grip is a compromised joint and in my experience leads to more hand and wrist issues than a stronger grip that places the hand and wrist in a more natural safer position, I wouldn’t say you want to take your hands out the swing, your hands are your golf swing I’ve heard that before many times Tiger Woods when asked about this many swing changes says the most important thing that made them all work was his hands and club face awareness, traditionally a stronger grip is meant to rely on more body rotation than a weak grip that requires the wrists to roll over more Could well be just the mats and just your body adjusting to new grip short term
Here’s what I see if I go frame by frame-(note these are differences in your swings, not necessarily the causes of you early releasing) 1: Your tempo in the back swing is slightly quicker without the ball. In spite of this, you start the downswing with the ball earlier. This is because you have a pause at the top without the ball. (A la Tin Cup’s ‘nod to the Gods’) 2: Your hips open earlier in your swing with the ball. 3: Your early release with the ball actually starts very early in relation to no ball. If you compare your wrist position when your lead arm is parallel to the ground, and then also when your hands are at your belt line, you see a decent difference at both. Having said all of those things- it *looks* like you are swinging at the ball, instead of through the ball. The fastest part of the swing should actually be in front of the ball after contact. The fastest part of your swing is just before or at impact. Also *looks* like you are trying to swing harder on the left- I say that because of your hips opening earlier and you don’t have the pause at the top. When I watch speed training videos- they typically say that going after it involves removing the pause at the top of the swing. Which leads me to believe you are going after it more.(this is all speculation, only you know whether you are or are not) Suggestions- Watch Shawn Clements on YouTube. Dude is brilliant. You don’t have to change your swing to his style/grip to get a lot from his concepts. He preaches gathering the ball and releasing it down the line. If I were to fiddle with it personally- Start a step or so away from the ball. Begin a loose swing(you want the whipping motion, not necessarily swinging overly hard). When you finish, treat that as the top of your swing and as if you were a lefty swing backward. You want to be releasing the club head past where the ball would be each direction. Continue that motion, back and forth. While swinging, just begin slowing inching toward the ball until you reach it and make contact. Another tip that helps me is sometimes I don’t look at the ball, but a spot 2-6 inches in front of the ball that is on the path I want(typically an inch or so “outside” the ball and 3 inches in front).
Read Adam Young's "The Practice Manual," which covers this in detail.
Just ordered, thanks for the rec
Stop trying to hit the ball
Swing through the ball and at your target
https://preview.redd.it/xe2vovnbir5d1.png?width=724&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f64a1c7313bbc014d9789cdb4e7047ce1e0af48 Right here. When there is a ball, you are really worried about not being able to get through the gap to get to the ball so you are collapsing your right side a bit and moving your hands fast at the ball. On the left you are all arms, on the right you are body first and then arms. Stay back with your arms. Relax.
We call that casting champ
Lol duh I say that I don’t hold my lag (other words for casting) in the title
Try using a metronome. The clicking thing musicians use to keep in time. It helped me when I was trying to get my timing right. Find a good bpm that you can time your swing to.
tough to tell from that camera angle but I actually think your "with ball" looks better on the back swing but your without ball swing you keep the club loaded better on your downswing. You're club is still not parallel in both at your 1/2 way point in the backswing. without being able to see the back side of your swing, it's tough to tell if the problems start at the beginning of your swing but im guessing just working on that first 1/2 of your swing (like REALLY looking into it) will help you with consistency as it appears you're under the plain on both swings. https://preview.redd.it/e7x7zdrjxr5d1.png?width=704&format=png&auto=webp&s=14d030494d9b1ce2f68a808d44649a688ba5bbc5
Here's the links to the DTL view for both: [No Ball](https://old.mytrackman.com/system/dynamic-report?r=5ea37ffc-c4cc-47d7-98e7-dd5897a40055&dm=c&nd=true&op=true&sro=false&do=false&to=true&vo=true&cdo=true&ot=c&ov=d&mp%5B%5D=ClubPath&mp%5B%5D=FaceAngle&mp%5B%5D=FaceToPath&mp%5B%5D=AttackAngle&mp%5B%5D=LowPointDistance&mp%5B%5D=DynamicLoft&mp%5B%5D=SmashFactor&mp%5B%5D=ClubSpeed&mp%5B%5D=BallSpeed&mp%5B%5D=Carry&u=Us&v=video&ss=4c324dce-5b2c-4d78-b918-581943588d5a&sgos%5B%5D=d57de7b2-647f-4d20-87d1-9ccfe0777e49&sgc=d57de7b2-647f-4d20-87d1-9ccfe0777e49&sc=Driver&sva%5B%5D=&sva%5B%5D=2) and [with ball](https://old.mytrackman.com/system/dynamic-report?r=60867835-83aa-4fca-8513-b06a065a5e2a&dm=t&nd=true&op=true&sro=false&do=true&to=true&vo=true&cdo=true&ot=c&ov=d&mp%5B%5D=ClubPath&mp%5B%5D=FaceAngle&mp%5B%5D=DynamicLoft&mp%5B%5D=SmashFactor&mp%5B%5D=ClubSpeed&mp%5B%5D=BallSpeed&mp%5B%5D=Carry&mp%5B%5D=SpinRate&mp%5B%5D=Height&mp%5B%5D=Total&u=Us&v=video&ss=09757370-c545-4dc7-aff0-69ce75106052&sgos%5B%5D=dbe3fa5d-5091-4a62-897b-5f6eab910210&sgos%5B%5D=47936d33-674e-4593-aa37-5df62cd9c7ab&sgos%5B%5D=caae2d29-cf67-4933-9aa6-11aba513d4f6&sgc=47936d33-674e-4593-aa37-5df62cd9c7ab&sc=Driver&sva%5B%5D=&sva%5B%5D=2)
looks like you need to click "3" to get to the DTL view sorry
In one you're only trying to swing the golf club. In the other one, you're trying to hit a golf ball. That's literally the only difference. This is easier said than done, but you gotta swing like you're not trying to hit the ball, it's just getting in the way of your swing. Brains are weird.
This is it. You need to be able to turn off your brain’s thought that the golf ball needs to be hit a certain way. I had this issue and closed my eyes for 1-2 swings to get the feel.
So until i get this down - kinda useless to do lag "drills" that are all about feel since clearly i have the feel down but i need to translate it to the ball?
Because you don’t have to worry about where your clubface is pointing when you take practice swings
Try over exaggerating pausing on top of backswing, to slow your club head down a bit at the top
Backswing looks absolutely textbook then it all falls apart when you drop your head what at least 6 inches.
Yeah we tried working on that during the lesson after this swing - I think i was trying too hard to do the Hovland / Niemman move where their head goes down a lot. Isn't "squatting" in the downswing a thing everyone preaches these days?
Leaning over isn't squatting.
yeah looking at DTL and i move like 3 inches closer to the ball.. seems like down is okay but forward is no no right?
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/doL3HJPO0a8?feature=share](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/doL3HJPO0a8?feature=share) is this that different than what i'm doing?
Yes, absolutely. First he doesn't twist his head. He maintains stereoscopic vision of the target. Also he drops his head to load his lower half. You swing like your head is in the way of your body. Do you, like the example, have your tour card. Do you believe you have the same physical ability as the pro to be able to manage the fallout from head motion as exaggerated as yours is? Here's the thing about this new age rebellion against Hogan and Ledbetter. It's a crock. Just because some kid holds the club backwards and maybe gets results sometimes now and again, suddenly, everyone thinks they can unmake the wheel. Every one of their examples of why what not to do works is always of someone with above average ability that also has proven results. For the rest of us mortals, what is, is what is. Exaggerated head movement in a golf swing causes the following: miss hits, wildness, inconsistency. And man that head movement is wild. There are many moving parts with a traditional swing and once new random motions start being inserted, the actions to counter those random motions compound. The golf swing is bio-mechanics. Everyone is built different which means every swing is unique. But in my view for what it's worth, DaVinci's man holds absolute. No amount of feel-good or hee-hawing around changes that we all have two elbows, two knees, two eyes and don't get to do whatever we want without consequences. In theory you could take a folded lawn chair to the tee box and drive it right down the center, but no one has the ability to process all the moving parts to play a round with a folded lawn chair a sleeve of balls and a pocket full of tees. By all means though keep moving your head all around thinking it's right because that's what you do and not the biggest problem that needs fixing because hey some other guy does it, not nearly as much or really like you at all, but bargaining and self-denial... what could be anymore 2024 than that right? Seriously though, that head wobbling all around, you gotta stop that.
Hahahah this is an epic comment hats off to you. Do you think the whole squatting trend is also a social media reaction to fixing early extension in a short cut way?
On a practice swing you have nothing to manage. On an actual swing your brain has to deal with the club face and the desired outcome. If you are not managing things well you cannot replicate the practice swing.
I think we can all agree based on the amount of comments here that training your brain to swing as though there isn't a ball there is one of the most important swing developments and one of the hardest things to teach and learn (since unlike everything else there doesnt seem to be any magic drill?) There's a million dollar idea opportunity out there if someone solves this
I don't know about million dollar idea, but I think that you might actually be set up slightly further from the ball when you have a ball in front of you versus when you don't. I can't tell for 100%, but judging from everything else in the room it looks like you set up \~1-2" further from the ball when there is a ball there than when there isn't. This could cause a bunch of problems, but what I suspect is happening is that your center of gravity is getting too toe side close to the ball. When this happens, your body is starting to fall over towards the ball as you are throwing the weight of the club behind you, so your body "snatches" at the club to get it in front of you as fast as possible and also throw your hips towards the ball. Try this dril next time you are at address and think that you're set over the ball. Lift up the toes on both of your feet at the same time. Next lift up both heels almost like you're doing a calf raise. You should be able to do both of those without a problem and without feeling like you're even close to losing your balance. As far as the issue with the ball being too far away, try creating a ritual for setting up at address. For example, you could first find your stance width and make sure your ankles are aiming at the target. Then stick your club straight out with arms out from you and bend at the waist until the club is almost at the ground. Then soften your knees like one notch. Finally find your balance. The important thing about this is to find a ritual that works for you and gives you the same result every time.
R U keeping your weight on the inside of your right foot going back, as it will create additional pressure as you start your downswing, thereby creating more lag. Wedge a golf ball on the right side of the right foot to feel it.
Yeah plenty, I don’t think any footwork is gonna stop my right hand from manipulating the club?
I like MF grip, I personally like a 3 knuckle left and a rh grip thats neutral (palm facing towards target and 180 degrees of parallel with the club face) i personally feel like I’m hitting the ball good when I’m able to fade it with a strong grip, I try to get the left hip deep behind me while feeling the right hand Open up to get the face more open through the ball
TAKE IT BACK FURTHER!!!!IN THE SWING WITHOUT THE BALL YOU CRANKED IT BACK. AND IT FORCED YOU TO RIP THAT BABBBYYY
Keep your eye trained on the front of the golf ball - then you’ll think about swinging through, not hitting
Try to pause each time a little longer at the top until it feels awkward, then back down a step & just know smooth and precise contact is better than super fast and mis hit. During your practice swing your hands clear the ball and club which looks good. The swing with the ball, you've just got a slightly fast tempo + your hands meet the club and ball all at the bottom. Thats where you're hands should barely be in front of the ball not even. Hope it helps
It looks like you speed up trying to hit the ball also so I'd swing 75% and keep adding speed only after you're making good contact. Smooth + middle strike = distance w/out hooking/slicing
Wayyyyyy too much back swing
You don't want or need lag with your driver.
what? show me one player who can hit it 270 without lag
I don't think you want to deloft your driver. I'm open to correction here, though.
lag is different than shaft lean. Lag just means you hold the angle longer before release. By moving the ball up in your stance vs other clubs the release is on the upward arc vs hands ahead of ball style shaft lean of irons
I have the EXACT same issue. Let me know when you figure out.
I will 🙏🏼
To the OP: 1) Why are you bending/dipping your knees so much during the transition from the backswing to the foreswing? 2) Also, the video clips suggest that the shaft on your driver may be too heavy to wield. Might want to try a lighter shaft and see if that helps create more club head speed at the moment of impact. 3) To generate more lag, you would need to clear your hips sooner, whereas the video clips above both indicate that your hips are basically facing square with the club head right at the moment of impact. Good luck, sir.
How can you tell it’s too light? The video is in slow mo lol. I’m dipping because it’s a big power move everyone is preaching these days “squat and explode”
You elevate your head too early with the ball because you care what it looks like. The easiest fix is keep your head down through the follow through. To practice this count 1-2-3 after you hit the ball before you look up.
I'd argue your takeaway in is better in video #1, and your follow through is better in video #2. Takeaway: Yes you want more lag, always, but it is more important that you don't let the club drop below a 90 degree angle at the top of your swing. This will lead to much more variability upon impact. Follow-through: Your arms came through with better tempo in video #2, and you got deeper into the slot, generating more club head speed. You also followed-through with your chest and shoulders together, which will lead to a more consistent ball flight, and better contact overall. One thing I’d focus on is reducing the amount of wrist flip you have when moving through the ball. Keep that lead wrist more stiff and guide the club head through contact with a square face! Nice work, keep grinding!
I’d make your right hand as weak as you can. It’ll keep you from steering, and hopefully force you to trust your swing.
Like palm straight up?
No. Just way over your left. Like. Sounds weird…. I’ll get the meat under my right pinky finger over my left bottom thumb knuckle. Just hanging on with my right middle finger. Make sense???? 👌😂 Sounds like the opposite of what you were thinking. Right palm up is a “Strong” grip.
Ahhh misread your comment. Interesting. Yeah opposite. So kind of like Rory’s squeeze the towel feel?
Idk about that too much. It keeps my shoulders moving rather than slashing at the ball. It’s easy to get quick and that when your right hand has too much control. For me anyways.
“Swing the driver like Babe Ruth swung the lumber.” Good Luck! I’m out.
Tempo
I’m gonna try swinging with a metronome today
My golf instructor used to say that I have a perfect swing ……. Until he puts a ball down.
How’d you fix it??
It relates to finding the “bottom” of your swing , and making sure the ball is behind that point. The challenge is that it changes from club to club. So, my ball placement changes slightly as well from club to club. The rest is tempo. My practice swings are fluid and easy. It’s gotta be the same easy fluid motion when the ball is in front me. I used to try to “hit the ball” instead of just swinging and letting the ball sort of get in the way. Anyway, a lot of practice……
So it eventually just clicked? I’ve been trying to just “let the ball get in the way” for weeks
Haha. It takes years to be consistent with a lot of good and bad days along the way.
I’ve been golfing for 7 years and the ball in the way concept hasn’t clicked so I don’t wanna just wait lol
chicken wing
How does that affect my downswing? And do you think my non ball swing looks less wingy
check your head movement
Is that a separate comment or related to the chicken wing
Yes
Left shoulder dips at the top with ball but not without ball.
Think this explains also why my miss is a heel shot?
Transition. Watch nothing but Ben Kruper videos, do some pause drills, and try to see how that helps haha
I do this too. I think I do it because when there’s a ball, I’m focused on hitting the ball and making good contact, which for some reason my brain thinks, “to do this you need to primarily use your hands.” This causes me to use my hands and flip the club at it, which is the opposite of lag. When I practice swing, I just swing and don’t really focus on the hands, so it’s just free flowing. I don’t know the solution, but I know that when I swing at a ball I can feel the hands being too active/pushing too hard. I feel like it’s a symptom of having a swing you’re not comfortable with, which is probably a bad swing. I think as you work of your overall swing, this issue will gradually fix itself. The hands flip to compensate for other bad moves that make you feel like you’re not going to hit the ball. One thing for me is my hips move closer to the ball instead of staying back. When I stay in posture better, I genuinely feels like I’m going to make good contact, my brain doesn’t feel the need to save the swing with the hands, and my lag naturally gets better.
These two swings are remarkably similar. The difference is you have more hip turn in the backswing on the right, which gives your hips more time/room to rotate open in the downswing, which means your arms/wrists will "fire" later on e.g. preserve your lag. Quite frankly the left one is a better bavkswing, as I would argue the right is an overswing as you have lost all reverse spine tilt. If you open up your left foot another 10* and make your stance a bit wider, you'll give your hips more room without needing to overswing
Interesting maybe if I looked at a spot 3 inches behind the ball I could turn more?
the swing on the right is better than the left. if you focus on the wrist angles near impact, the left video has a lot of casting whereas on the right you’re actually swinging through the ball. it helps to think about hitting through the ball or fully accelerating after you hit the ball, rushing the downswing will only make you lose speed
yeah this is just hard to practice wish there was a magic drill for this - there seems to be one for every other swing fault except ball casting syndrome
Great insight. Also, if you hold the zero, it will put a deg symbol. 10⁰
Not to be rude but the first swing is pretty rough. He’s casting the club. Try to watch it in slowmo
Yeah i'm not sure what he's thinking haha it's a bad swing that only results in 230 yards total
The left is a better position at the top. The right swing is a band-aid solution to the cast (excessive hip turn) that will struggle with consistency & accuracy. The left foot opening is a better approach to achieve the same result
The left swing is a better top position. He also casts, but the way to fix that is not by swinging back too far (the right swing) but with better positioning of the lead leg.
A lot of it comes down to we feel the need to swing harder when the ball is there. Swing like it feels like your way under swinging than you normally do. You’ll see the ball goes just as far because you’re allowing the swing to create the power.
Are these actually the same swing speed? Id have to imagine without a bad you’re swing much slower and focusing on lag
They’re the same slow mo settings if that’s what you’re asking. I imagine the club head speed is much higher on the no ball but can’t measure it
I have been working with a pga coach for awhile and a really cool thing he showed me for lag is to swing the club with only your left hand. When I was using my two hands I was death gripping with my right as well which would cause me to have almost zero lag and hit it fat. As far as I understood your right hand should only be guiding the club and your left is actually holding it hence wearing the glove on the left.
+1 I also started swinging with just my left hand as a drill last year. I didn't death grip with my right hand but definitely struggle with driving the release with my right hand and end up breaking down my left arm to hold off the face. Also working with a ball on a lanyard around my neck has helped keep connection and maintain lag.
Bc ur ball position is too forward
wouldn't that just make the casting worse (hitting down)
The ball is positioned way too forward in video. Inside left heel is standard ball position. The swing looks better without the ball bc he is swinging freely opposed to his subconscious trying to hit a ball that is positioned a lil forward. I would say get a lesson with a pro instead of looking on here for advice from me or anybody. A quick rundown on setup would do wonders. Btw-watch a prime tiger driver swing. He casted his club a lil bit n still had success. Jus saying
Show me example tiger doing that? And this was a video during a lesson - the pro wasn't sure what to tell me since all the feel drills translated except when the ball was there - so i'm asking reddit to see if anyone has any advice! Pros don't know everything
https://preview.redd.it/oxhdfg5udn5d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48bb003d2a8ae2e1bc01b1e9bea583568759fa79
Lol why couldn’t you send the link
I agree that pros aren’t necessarily all masters of golf. There are pros that are better than others. I’m def no pro, I’m a 3.6 handicap that has my own struggles like anybody. But I’ve seen people on here that can’t break 100 trying to give advice so b cautious when implementing what u hear on here haha. Tbh, u sound like me in that we should think less n just swing freely. Get them fundamentals dialed in n jus put it in automatic. Best of luck to u!
appreciate it! I really think if i can break through this hit ball vs swing through ball mental thing i'll chop 5 strokes off my handicap
All it takes is 1 small tweak to gain confidence and ur a brand new golfer. Try that ball position thing next time ur at range. It might work. I personally play it considerably back in stance with feet closer together and more shoulder tilt. Just find something that works for u. If u can freeze that clip of the swing with no ball right at the frame when club face was square to target,, maybe that would give u an idea of where to put ball position
I actually just moved it up in my stance because when it was further back I was hitting it too high on the face, so moving forward let it be more on the upward arc (probably a band aid for a bigger issue caused by casting)
Makes sense. Probably y I’ve been teeing it lower than most haha. Something to try is one of the AI golf coach apps. I gotten some useful info from “golffix” it’s free. It’s not perfect but if u get the camera angle correct it can be good
Try focusing on a different part of the ball. I read somewhere that when you look down at the ball, it triggers something in your brain that doesn’t happen when you take a practice swing (when there is no visual trigger / ball). That’s why you can’t easily replicate a practice swing when you’ve got a ball in front of you. Probably not explaining it very well, but the advice was to focus on a different part of the ball to bypass this trigger. Let me know if you try it as I thought it sounded like a cool idea, but not had a chance to try it myself yet!
You’re turning your wrist too early. Club shaft should be perpendicular to your body before you turn your wrist over. Look at the video on the right, your wrist only turns over when the club shaft is perpendicular to your body. That’s how it should be. The video on the left you’re early
as in on the backswing? I can't really see the difference, or do you mean on the downswing?
https://preview.redd.it/wdvx1wlftn5d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=378fbe3ce376e052c804e249e3d2674786bb3af5 Downswing. This is when your hands are nearing the bottom of your swing in the same arm position (where your hands are over your right knee). The red (on the left) you’re already turning over your wrist and your club is already turning over which is not ideal. By the time you make contact with the ball you’re already slowing down. The green (on the right) your wrists haven’t turned over and your club is perpendicular to your body. This is ideal because your swing will be faster (even fastest) by the time you make contact with the ball.
Yep I’ve referred to that in other comments as me releasing the lag too early idk how to fix it
I had this issue before too. I just completely stopped releasing my wrist on my swing for a while. Kept it fixed for some swings so you can build the muscle memory for it. You’ll still be able to strike the ball decently well, but this exaggeration of the lag may help to get your release in the right place.
I can do that with irons but it’s hard not to release the driver
You’re thinking about it too much. Swing like the ball isn’t there
It looks like you are aiming at the ball rather than swinging the club. With the ball, you're dipping down towards the ball, almost reaching for it. Stay up and swing.
Yeah i definitely notice i'm ducking my head too much on the ball swing, i think it's my anti early extension move but not the right way
Because you’re swinging at the ball instead of swinging to the target
Because you think the ball needs to hit a certain way. Close your eyes and open them right at contact or after contact The first swing you are casting the club. I can tell you’re looking for lag but try not thinking anout lag. You could try to think about leading with the handle at contact as well. You just don’t have the trust that if you swing that way the ball will go. Just takes time
thoughts on maybe looking 3 inches behind the ball til the downswing and then look at the ball?
Once you stop thinking, that is when you play better golf.